FTE shouts

[nilbog]

In lieu of waiting to revamp the entire raid scene, I can move forward with the FTE (First to Engage) message portion. (Note: Overall raid scene changes are still pending and not forgotten about.)

For those unfamiliar with the proposed changes, raid targets will notify players in the immediate vicinity who was first to engage. Once aggroed, the npc ceases additional shouts unless disengaged with an empty hatelist.

i.e.
Lord Nagafen attacks $name!
This immediately shows players in the area who was first to engage and negates the need for a GM to work out details.

Questions/FAQ:

This system will not be present on the pvp server unless requested by the community.

Does everyone approve of FTE messages? If not, please explain your concerns.

[Funkutron5000]

Seems very reasonable. Thank you!

[Thana8088]

Although it may not be perfect, I thank you for the efforts being made to easy the tensions present in the current raid scene, and am anxious to see the changes this proactive development will bring.

[cs616]

Definitely looking forward to seeing this implimented. Also, thanks for your continued willingness to work on things like this that can hopefully improve raiding on Project1999!

[Lazortag]

I think the FTE message should be zone-wide. Think about mobs like Faydedar who are usually killed quite far away from their spawn point. Often people will aggro faydedar on sight and not know that another guild tagged him. Moreover, if another guild tags faydedar early to try stall-kiting him, a zone-wide FTE shout makes that more clear.

[nilbog]

I think the FTE message should be zone-wide. Think about mobs like Faydedar who are usually killed quite far away from their spawn point. Often people will aggro faydedar on sight and not know that another guild tagged him. Moreover, if another guild tags faydedar early to try stall-kiting him, a zone-wide FTE shout makes that more clear.

These will be written on a per-npc basis. Faydedar noted.

[Tiggles]

In lieu of waiting to revamp the entire raid scene, I can move forward with the FTE (First to Engage) message portion. (Note: Overall raid scene changes are still pending and not forgotten about.)

For those unfamiliar with the proposed changes, raid targets will notify players in the immediate vicinity who was first to engage. Once aggroed, the npc ceases additional shouts unless disengaged with an empty hatelist.

i.e.
Lord Nagafen attacks $name!
This immediately shows players in the area who was first to engage and negates the need for a GM to work out details.

Questions/FAQ:

This system will not be present on the pvp server unless requested by the community.

Does everyone approve of FTE messages? If not, please explain your concerns.


Thank you for this Nilbog.


Question, How does this effect memblur effects?

Say TMO engages a dragon we get the shout half way through FE Memblurs said dragon and resets his agro and a FE member hits it is that raid interference or will we be back to memblur wars?

[Rhambuk]

definitely a HUGE step in the right direction, cheers nilbog!

[Lazortag]

These will be written on a per-npc basis. Faydedar noted.

Also Sev, Gore, and Tal. Most other raid mobs are killed on or near their spawn point so stall-kiting without another guild knowing isn't as much of an issue.
apart from that, this seems like a solid change.

[Sirken]

These will be written on a per-npc basis. Faydedar noted.

Sev is the same situation as faydedar, and should be zone wide, id same the same with any out door dragons that need to be pulled a long distance to the camp

[nilbog]

Question, How does this effect memblur effects?

Say TMO engages a dragon we get the shout half way through FE Memblurs said dragon and resets his agro and a FE member hits it is that raid interference or will we be back to memblur wars?

This system is designed to help players determine FTE by visible color (likely yellow) emotes. Nothing about existing interference rules or internal logging has changed.

[arsenalpow]

The only thing is worry about is the FTE sniping at say Trak. Raid A rushes to engage and a player from raid B javs him or something stupid, there's a point of no return.

[Nirgon]

These will be written on a per-npc basis. Faydedar noted.

Please make this yellow text as it is a custom feature (although now necessary as the # extended Kunark and # of players who were able to farm things before things got fixed).

[zyryn]

Will there be an emote when agro has been dropped? Without this, one could pull agro, trigger the emote and drop the agro while other guilds still believe that FTE has already been established.

[Rogean]

Will there be an emote when agro has been dropped? Without this, one could pull agro, trigger the emote and drop the agro while other guilds still believe that FTE has already been established.

What game do you play? It's pretty easy to figure out if a giant dragon is engaged or not...

[Volibear]

Do we have an ETA on when this will begin?

[zyryn]

Not when its pulled from across the zone.

[Sirken]

Do we have an ETA on when this will begin?

keep your eyes open for patch notes ;)

[Eccezan]

Awesome awesome awesome!!!!! Awesome!!!

[arsenalpow]

What game do you play? It's pretty easy to figure out if a giant dragon is engaged or not...

It's easy to tell when a raid force has engaged a target but there are other circumstances to take into account as well. For example, dragon shouts his FTE, then charms/kills that target, which means that FTE is now open again. I think this will be incredibly useful for things like Sev, Fay, Tal, Gore because those targets are pulled to a waiting raid but for other targets like say VS and Trak there's usually shenanigans and gamesmanship involved (1 person trying to snag FTE right before another raid engages, tagging/flopping to stall other raids, etc)

[Splorf22]

All hail Nilbog/Rogean!

P.S. I also think the 'unengaged' message is useful.

P.P.S. Why not just make all of them zone wide? No one at a sebilis group is going to complain about a few extra spam lines once every 3 days.

[falkun]

Thanks for this! I like that it'll be yellow system text.

Raid mobs pulled across the zone to a waiting raid: Gore, Sev, Tal, and Fay especially, but Maestro, Dracoliche, Inny, and Noble should also be considered for "zone-wide" versus "localized". I would personally prefer all messages to be zone-wide, but any FTE shout will be an improvement.

FTE disengage would be nice, but not as necessary as the engage.

@Zyryn: If you attempt to pull a mob you think has reset and do not get an FTE notice, then you should know that the mob is still engaged and should react appropriately.

Its good to hear this is moving forward!

[Nirgon]

I have my Trakanon favoritism thread along with an entire history that makes a very compelling argument at the ready. Hopefully we will all soon see the effect he has had on the community, remove him and give him VIP/contributor status.

[Autotune]

I'm with rogean tbh, I don't think it should be required to be zone wide for the mobs that are being pulled.

If your guild can't figure out if you've pulled something or not, your probably shouldn't be raiding.

It's easy to tell when a raid force has engaged a target but there are other circumstances to take into account as well. For example, dragon shouts his FTE, then charms/kills that target, which means that FTE is now open again. I think this will be incredibly useful for things like Sev, Fay, Tal, Gore because those targets are pulled to a waiting raid but for other targets like say VS and Trak there's usually shenanigans and gamesmanship involved (1 person trying to snag FTE right before another raid engages, tagging/flopping to stall other raids, etc)

seriously... FTE shouts are needed for poopsock lottery engages, not for regular engages. Not to mention Sev, Tal and Gore already have zone wide messages for when they're aggro'd.

[Nirgon]

I think it should be shouted to any player that is within casting range.

A zone wide shout for the pvp server... maybe not the best idea.

[Daldolma]

This is definitely good news.

[Crazyeye]

Less focus on the current raid scene and more focus on getting beta of the next expansion released after 2 years seems like a better solution

[Enygma]

approved!! This will negate GM response as long as training subsides.

Now lets not worry about the crappy raid scene and lets focus on Velious as it will fix the current state of things because you will NOT be able to zerg... you will NOT be able to FTE snipe because the Mobs will rape anyone without a CH rotation on them. !!

What other help do you need with Velious sir, your minions are ready and willing to help!?

Sworen Owns
60 Warlord - The Mystical Order

[EchoedTruth]

In lieu of waiting to revamp the entire raid scene, I can move forward with the FTE (First to Engage) message portion. (Note: Overall raid scene changes are still pending and not forgotten about.)

For those unfamiliar with the proposed changes, raid targets will notify players in the immediate vicinity who was first to engage. Once aggroed, the npc ceases additional shouts unless disengaged with an empty hatelist.

i.e.
Lord Nagafen attacks $name!
This immediately shows players in the area who was first to engage and negates the need for a GM to work out details.

Questions/FAQ:

This system will not be present on the pvp server unless requested by the community.

Does everyone approve of FTE messages? If not, please explain your concerns.

Yay devs! Maybe this will end the idiotic FE/TMO flamefests (a guy can dream)

[Funkutron5000]

Yay devs! Maybe this will end the idiotic FE/TMO flamefests (a guy can dream)

Yeah... Not likely.

[Nirgon]

Who gets body aggro and who FTEs the mob are different things too..

I'm aware of this 3 second feature too..

[kotton05]

Yay sounds like a great idea. This will make socking counter productive if your guild isn't ready.

[kotton05]

This is 100% untrue and Im confused why you would state such a thing

I know what Chest means.... If you engage Trakanon and get dotted but dont have fte... wtf you camp out to certain death??? there is a point of no return.

[Stalahoy]

nilbog, a sincere thank you from the raiding scene for this change. can we put the variance back the way it was before patch now? no one wants less loot =-P

[nilbog]

Will there be an emote when agro has been dropped? Without this, one could pull agro, trigger the emote and drop the agro while other guilds still believe that FTE has already been established.

I don't want to change the dynamic of pulling for raids. It's one thing to help sort out a cluster of who attacked first.. but being able to monitor aggro and disengages from anywhere in a zone is too much. If there are problems after implementation, I will look further into this.

Less focus on the current raid scene and more focus on getting beta of the next expansion released after 2 years seems like a better solution

Adding these scripts will take me very little time at all. I mean like.. 10 minutes if everyone is in agreement before I begin. If I can spend very little time to improve player experience and lessen the GM duties of the staff, I will.

These npcs will receive this functionality:
nagafen
vox
cazic thule
trakanon
innoruuk
faydedar
talendor
gorenaire
severilous
venril sathir
maestro
noble djorn
dracoliche
<s>druushk</s> -- removed from list due to no csr in VP.
<s>hoshkar</s>
<s>nexona</s>
<s>pharadar</s>
<s>silverwing</s>
<s>xygoz</s>Any missing? Any foreseen problems with the npcs listed?

[falkun]

nagafen
vox
cazic thule
trakanon
innoruuk
faydedar
talendor
gorenaire
severilous
venril sathir
maestro
noble djorn
druushk
hoshkar
nexona
pharadar
silverwing
xygoz
Dracoliche?

[Rusl]

Leave the VP mobs out imo, no CSR in that zone anyway.

[nilbog]

Leave the VP mobs out imo, no CSR in that zone anyway.

I'll agree with that. I grabbed that list from my simulated patch respawn thread and.. as they would be affected by that system, FTE shouts are irrelevant unless there is CSR.

[heartbrand]

Just quick question that I've yet to see a definitive answer to, would simulated patch day spawns if implemented be in place on red as well?

[nilbog]

I think it should be shouted to any player that is within casting range.

A zone wide shout for the pvp server... maybe not the best idea.

In the OP, I specifically stated that this would not be included on the PvP server unless it was requested by the community.

Just quick question that I've yet to see a definitive answer to, would simulated patch day spawns if implemented be in place on red as well?

It's not even on place on pve yet.. but I'll give a preemptive no. Vying for control of npcs with no variance lets pvp sort out the problems. Anyone wanting to get red pixels can show up in force.

[heartbrand]

Getting cheated out on a classic number of pixels per week Lord Nilbog on red. Just because people don't want to fight for precious pixels doesn't mean they should be an endangered species!

[nilbog]

Getting cheated out on a classic number of pixels per week Lord Nilbog on red. Just because people don't want to fight for precious pixels doesn't mean they should be an endangered species!

This thread isn't about pvp and isn't in pvp server chat. Post about this elsewhere.

[heartbrand]

Was sarcasm sorry my lord, continue on pals with this riveting thread. On a constructive note shouldn't you add the heavily contested epic mobs like verina tomb to this list?

[Kagatob]

Question for Dr. Nilbog. Is FTE policy going to remain a thing when Velious eventually releases? I have concern for those quested items that need to be handed into the raid encounters by people who have allied faction with them? How to do this if they will constantly be sniped on spawn?

[nilbog]

Question for Dr. Nilbog. Is FTE policy going to remain a thing when Velious eventually releases? I have concern for those quested items that need to be handed into the raid encounters by people who have allied faction with them? How to do this if they will constantly be sniped on spawn?

Turning in quest items has nothing to do with FTE policies. To this date, you will still have a problem finding Dain, Yelinak, or Tormax spawned on eqlive.

[heartbrand]

Took me months to do a hand in to dain on live shit was awful.

[Kagatob]

Turning in quest items has nothing to do with FTE policies. To this date, you will still have a problem finding Dain, Yelinak, or Tormax spawned on eqlive.

I'll have to respectfully disagree. On live they didn't use FTE, if you had your raid force there first you had the mob, this means that if you have players in the guild raiding the mob who have appropriate faction, the guild can wait the 30 seconds it takes someone to hand in their item before the guild engages. I know this having seen it done multiple times on the Bertox server.

[Autotune]

I'll have to respectfully disagree. On live they didn't use FTE, if you had your raid force there first you had the mob, this means that if you have players in the guild raiding the mob who have appropriate faction, the guild can wait the 30 seconds it takes someone to hand in their item before the guild engages. I know this having seen it done multiple times on the Bertox server.

read the rules.

[nilbog]

I'll have to respectfully disagree. On live they didn't use FTE, if you had your raid force there first you had the mob, this means that if you have players in the guild raiding the mob who have appropriate faction, the guild can wait the 30 seconds it takes someone to hand in their item before the guild engages. I know this having seen it done multiple times on the Bertox server.

First guild with sufficient force to engage the npc.. was the 'code of engagement' we had on erollisi marr. If you're saying people would stand around and wait for other people to turn in items, I don't believe it. Should they? Sure, that's a nice thing to do. Nothing like that has ever been enforceable from live GMs to my knowledge.

[Kagatob]

First guild with sufficient force to engage the npc.. was the 'code of engagement' we had on erollisi marr. If you're saying people would stand around and wait for other people to turn in items, I don't believe it.
They would do such if it were members of their own guild. They would have no reason not to unless they felt they needed to hit the mob the second it spawned (FTE)
Should they? Sure, that's a nice thing to do. Nothing like that has ever been enforceable from live GMs to my knowledge.
I've never been a GM so I don't know they enforced it, I joined the server about halfway through the release of Kunark where the raiding methods there were already pretty well established. I could only assume the GM's had information to tell them how long certain characters were logged in specific zones. If the guild being /petitioned against had their 15th (number out of thin air) member arrive twenty minutes later than the guild sending the petition, it would be obvious who arrived in force first and the latter guild would have to sit out and wait and see if the first guild wipes.

[Enygma]

Nilbog,

You might want to add the other efreeti's OoA / Hand of Veeshan to your list just in the event it becomes a dispute in the future so you do not have to go back and revisit this.

Sworen Owns
60 Warlord - The Mystical Order

[Chloroform]

Yay sounds like a great idea. This will make socking counter productive if your guild isn't ready.

/nod

[Shinko]

thanks, i know i been bugging all gm's for this

agree on needs a disengage since a monk could tag, and flop ect

the list of mobs look fine


thanks for the hard work

[Servellious]

If no disengage is given its time to spam and flop it's a double edged sword

[Servellious]

A message upon death might save gm time if a disengage isn't given and people don't want shenanigans to prevail

[nilbog]

The following npcs have this functionality as of next patch:


lord nagafen
lady vox
cazic thule
trakanon
innoruuk
faydedar
talendor
gorenaire
severilous
venril sathir
maestro of rancor
noble djorn
a dracoliche


What will happen? Players within a reasonable distance will receive a message stating $npcname engages $playername!

i.e. (Lord Nagafen) : everyone near the fire giant castle would receive a 'Lord Nagafen engages Nilbog!' message, in yellow, if I was first to engage.


The outdoor dragons will function the same, but at a much greater distance.

I hope this small addition helps to alleviate some of the problems in determining first to engage. If it causes problems, it can be removed.

[quido]

/Cheer!

[Ele]

not classic

[SamwiseRed]

not classic

ye but neither is the whiny greedy playerbase. at least, not on druzzil ro.

[Lostprophets]

not classic

Enforced rotations are though. ;)

[Ele]

Enforced rotations are though. ;)

Don't know what server that was lol

[quido]

shut your fucking faces, uncle fuckers

[Visual]

not classic

stab him in the heart while he's hurt

[knix]

Please forgive my simplistic question. But, how does feign death affect the FTE shout situation.

If I have understood correctly in the recent past players have stayed on the agro list in the same position even though they have feigned.

would this senerio happen?

Monk A engages, gets FTE shout and feigns, mob is in process or resetting, but when attacked by guild B monk, FTE shout doesnt go off?, then guild A has FTE and can engage while guild B is trying to figure out why fte shout didn't go off, why it didn't clear aggro when fd. Giving enough time for other Guild A to get on the aggro list before monk A stands back up and gets killed.

In the split seconds of engagement, decisions have to be made very quickly, as no guild wants to dps and kill a mob for another guild. We have watched Talendor ping pong from North to South for no apparent reason other than players FD, or other shenanigans. If FD doesn't clear aggro completely it will be murky imho.

views expressed do not represent leaders or officers of TMO. Just a druid with questions.:)

[khanable]

My guess would be it would only reset if there was no one else on the aggro list.

Which makes pulling outdoor dragons a bit weird I guess.

I assume it will only shout if a player actively engages? Not from the mob engaging a player?

Quick tag that level 40 that just got ganked by gore!

[Zapatos]

Thank you so much, Nilbog and whoever else helped! For anyone who's been at dojo or any other poopsock... this change will be an amazing improvement for both players and gms. Thank you!

[falkun]

I assume it will only shout if a player actively engages? Not from the mob engaging a player?
What will happen? Players within a reasonable distance will receive a message stating $npcname engages $playername!

i.e. (Lord Nagafen) : everyone near the fire giant castle would receive a 'Lord Nagafen engages Nilbog!' message, in yellow, if I was first to engage.

The raid mob will shout when a PC is added to its aggro list, regardless of whether that is "actively engaged" or if the "mob engages a player" (think pulling Fay, Sev, or Tal).

would this senerio happen?

Monk A engages, gets FTE shout and feigns, mob is in process or resetting, but when attacked by guild B monk, FTE shout doesnt go off?, then guild A has FTE and can engage while guild B is trying to figure out why fte shout didn't go off, why it didn't clear aggro when fd. Giving enough time for other Guild A to get on the aggro list before monk A stands back up and gets killed.

In the split seconds of engagement, decisions have to be made very quickly, as no guild wants to dps and kill a mob for another guild. We have watched Talendor ping pong from North to South for no apparent reason other than players FD, or other shenanigans. If FD doesn't clear aggro completely it will be murky imho.
That's a really stupid question Knix. What do you do currently when you don't have FTE? You disengage. What should you do in the future when you do not get positive confirmation that your engage is legitimate? You disengage. The difference between the current system and FTE notifications is that you'll have instantaneous knowledge of who has FTE, instead of having to guess who has FTE. If your puller does not get affirmative notification of his engage, then hopefully he's smart enough to realize he's on the hate list but was not told he has FTE, therefore he doesn't have FTE and should figure out a way to drop aggro entirely until the other guild wipes and a new FTE can be made.

[Versus]

The raid mob will shout when a PC is added to its aggro list, regardless of whether that is "actively engaged" or if the "mob engages a player" (think pulling Fay, Sev, or Tal).


That's a really stupid question Knix. What do you do currently when you don't have FTE? You disengage. What should you do in the future when you do not get positive confirmation that your engage is legitimate? You disengage. The difference between the current system and FTE notifications is that you'll have instantaneous knowledge of who has FTE, instead of having to guess who has FTE. If your puller does not get affirmative notification of his engage, then hopefully he's smart enough to realize he's on the hate list but was not told he has FTE, therefore he doesn't have FTE and should figure out a way to drop aggro entirely until the other guild wipes and a new FTE can be made.

The issue, Falkun, that she is trying to point out is that the mechanic can be taken advantage of by FD classes. By engaging and getting the shout, one could then FD while Mr. KoS boss mob goes buckwild on the surrounding guild(s) or straight stalling until Mr. KoS boss mob eventually resets. And that is if said FD class does not stand up just prior to Mr. KoS boss mob resetting.

FWIW I am thinking of mobs such as Trak, VS, etc. Close quarters mobs that aren't a long pull.

[Samoht]

By engaging and getting the shout, one could then FD while Mr. KoS boss mob goes buckwild on the surrounding guild(s) or straight stalling until Mr. KoS boss mob eventually resets. And that is if said FD class does not stand up just prior to Mr. KoS boss mob resetting.

how is this any different from the current setup?

also, how do you guarantee that an FD class gets FTE when there's 200(ish) people sitting on the spawn already?

[Versus]

how is this any different from the current setup?

It's not.


also, how do you guarantee that an FD class gets FTE when there's 200(ish) people sitting on the spawn already?

Due to the extended windows, this does not really happen anymore.

[happyhappy]

I think the issue is less of the mechanics but more the people trying their darnest to find loopholes to take advantage of.

You are all the reason why people get sued for not specifying their packets of nuts may have contained traces of nuts.

[Samoht]

Due to the extended windows, this does not really happen anymore.

recheck nobs

[Ele]

Can we atleast exchange the current variances for new FTE shouts? Or will we be having both?

[Frieza_Prexus]

Can we atleast exchange the current variances for new FTE shouts? Or will we be having both?

Extended windows are working. Get back in your cage.

[Nirgon]

You stay off Ele or I'll troll you for the rest of your life and internet stalk you everywhere.

Need a full staff of ex players who hate everyone to be GMs, remove variance and put in FTE shouts.

Done deal.

JK on the stalk thing but yeah Ele makes posts I like to read so I will be belligerent when defending.

[knix]

If FD doesn't clear aggro completely it will be murky imho.

For the shout to work with minimal guide assistance FD needs to clear aggro completely so if the FTE FDs, it will shout again. Or a de-aggro shout when a FD occurs.


That's a really stupid question Knix. What do you do currently when you don't have FTE? You disengage.


I will humor your mean spirited query here. You apparently didn't comprehend my question, the question was when the initial FTE feigns death. Currently we have to fraps to show guide staff that the the initial engager had flopped.

I am not going to address the second part of your question, as its irrelevant to the thread. We know what to do when we don't have FTE.

But, this call will make it more likely for shenanigans if monk A guild knows he has agro, (and wont lose fte while feigned) they will be more likely to do whatever to get on the agro list before monk stands back up and dies. When they didnt earn it because the FTE person FD-

[kaev]

You stay off Ele or I'll troll you for the rest of your life and internet stalk you everywhere.

Need a full staff of ex players who hate everyone to be GMs, remove variance and put in FTE shouts.

Done deal.

JK on the stalk thing but yeah Ele makes posts I like to read so I will be belligerent when defending.

Translation: All the worst bits of original EQ must be hatefully recreated in excruciatingly painful detail. The good bits are to be tolerated if, and only if, it can be proved by rigorous forensics that they really did exist, and then they may be allowed a brief cameo before being rendered irrelevant by the same tiresome asshats and dirtbags in-game who have driven the devs here to invent this horribly annoying variance mechanic. But all of the shit is mandatory. Every last bit of shit is required, large or small, real or just rumored, especially if it was just rumored.

[Skope]

Extended windows are working. Get back in your cage.

For who exactly?

I can see it now:

Create yet another non-classic mechanic to deal with another non-classic mechanic that never worked in the first place (I'll be taking bets on how long FTE shout lasts before that too is broken). FTE shout is much like variance in that it's yet another bandaid on a bandaid to treat a self-inflicted wound.

You could just stop stabbing yourself, but what the fuck am I thinking, right?

[Frieza_Prexus]

For who exactly?

Your issue is with the variance itself not the extended windows. Extended windows make the variance better at what it was designed to do. They're only an "additional" non-classic solution in that whoever created the variance in the first place didn't think of them at the time.

It's fruitless to argue against extended windows with the idea that the previous variance had an upper limit that allowed everyone to just sit on the spawn when you only had a few hours to go. If you consider sitting on the spawn while counting down to a guaranteed pop a viable and proper situation then you're better off arguing against the variance itself and not the recent modification.

Careful that dude is the one who came up with the terrible extended variance idea that just so happened to "accidentally" get implemented. He may fight tooth and nail to make it appear valid no matter how ridiculous it actually is considering the selfishness he displays within the very way it would have and has since just benefited his guild primarily.

See above. Also, attack the idea not the person, you might get more traction. I know I'm always advocating (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=811311&postcount=69) that TMO steamroll people, but have a little faith that maybe I just think it's a good idea.

[xarzzardorn]

For who exactly?

I can see it now:

Create yet another non-classic mechanic to deal with another non-classic mechanic that never worked in the first place (I'll be taking bets on how long FTE shout lasts before that too is broken). FTE shout is much like variance in that it's yet another bandaid on a bandaid to treat a self-inflicted wound.

You could just stop stabbing yourself, but what the fuck am I thinking, right?

working to create encounters that aren't just loot pinatas. extended variance creates situations where guilds are forced to engage with the lowest numbers and most difficult to manage scenario. FTE shouts are another win-win to ensure players are actually experiencing content not just soaking up pixels with near zero effort

[Skope]

Your issue is with the variance itself not the extended windows. Extended windows make the variance better at what it was designed to do. They're only an "additional" non-classic solution in that whoever created the variance in the first place didn't think of them at the time.

It's fruitless to argue against extended windows with the idea that the previous variance had an upper limit that allowed everyone to just sit on the spawn when you only had a few hours to go. If you consider sitting on the spawn while counting down to a guaranteed pop a viable and proper situation then you're better off arguing against the variance itself and not the recent modification.



See above. Also, attack the idea not the person, you might get more traction. I know I'm always advocating (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=811311&postcount=69) that TMO steamroll people, but have a little faith that maybe I just think it's a good idea.

Adding more of something that never worked in the hope that it might work doesn't mean that it works.

Additional variance hasn't removed poopsocking or guilds logging out at targets, it's only reduced it and thinned out the top to those who zerg recruit and can spread out the tracking (or "tracking" if you prefer) and can partake in it.

I have zero faith in nilbog and Rogean. They're pushing patches that they don't agree with (more than once? how does this even happen?), repeatedly adding non-classic mechanics that don't work (and haven't for years), and now it's more bandaids.

You guys undoubtedly have the most classic code, but the implementation is completely backasswards and getting more so with each patch.

[Skope]

working to create encounters that aren't just loot pinatas. extended variance creates situations where guilds are forced to engage with the lowest numbers and most difficult to manage scenario. FTE shouts are another win-win to ensure players are actually experiencing content not just soaking up pixels with near zero effort

You mean just like classic?

Artificial bottlenecks aren't the answer. Adding more nonsensical shit to maintain the same artificial bottlenecks is even stupider.

If you're going to keep going down this route than you need to change that banner at the top left corner. While there are certain tweaks that make sense - boxing, account lockout when switching accounts, etc - you've also been adding stuff that's completely unnecessary and makes the whole experience worse.

I've said this before, but you two really need to reconsider just what the hell you've been doing as of late. To say that there's no thought being put into it is quite an understatement.

[Halfelfbard]

Skope "Everquest is hard, and i have to play alot to get gear"

All im really reading.

[Skope]

Skope "Everquest is hard, and i have to play alot to get gear"

All im really reading.

If that's what you get from "Keep it classic, stupid" then I pity you.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Adding more of something that never worked in the hope that it might work doesn't mean that it works.

But it's not "more" of the same. It's a fundamental change to something that wasn't accomplishing its stated goal. Drastic alteration isn't the same as shoehorning in thoughtless additions. This is less a band-aid and more an organ transplant.

There's not been a major sock of any target since the windows went in. While you disagree with the methods of the variance, it is undeniable that the new windows have made the variance better at fulfilling at least one of its intended purposes.

Again, your issue is with the variance itself; the addition of extended windows has no functional impact upon your argument. The variance is either a good thing or it is not. If it's going to exist, it stands to reason that it should good at what it is meant to do. I would think that a poorly functioning variance would be more outrageous than a well-tuned one. Do I dislike the fact that the variance was necessary? Sure, but I dislike the consequence of no variance even more. This server will never have the same environment that live did where mobs stay up for days and weeks at a time, and the devs can recreate that no more than they can recapture the magic of playing the game for the first time in 1999.

[xarzzardorn]

You mean just like classic?

Artificial bottlenecks aren't the answer. Adding more nonsensical shit to maintain the same artificial bottlenecks is even stupider.

If you're going to keep going down this route than you need to change that banner at the top left corner. While there are certain tweaks that make sense - boxing, account lockout when switching accounts, etc - you've also been adding stuff that's completely unnecessary and makes the whole experience worse.

I've said this before, but you two really need to reconsider just what the hell you've been doing as of late.

how is it an artificial bottleneck? this is everquest; that means only 1 person gets the dragon each week. gm raid intervention has been solely to make it competitive rather than just a dice roll.

you can't agree with some nonclassic changes and then claim the ones you don't like are ruining the 'classicness' of the server. i don't even know what you want? does divinity want to sock trakanon for 8 hours when he goes late in window? your guild seems to be just fine doing what it's doing.

[Enygma]

cant wait for these FTE shouts to be implemented...!

[Skope]

Again, your issue is with the variance itself. Do I dislike the fact that the variance was necessary? Sure, but I dislike the consequence of no variance even more.

Rather than spending time to add simulated repops once a week (or two... or once every hour if you watch to catch up with the last 3+ years), FTE is added so there's less GM intervention. Of course, how it's going to do that without a disengage shout is another matter, but hell? Who cares, right? It's been clearly well thought out.

This server will never have the same environment that live did where mobs stay up for days and weeks at a time, and the devs can recreate that no more than they can recapture the magic of playing the game for the first time in 1999.

That's not the goal here and likely never has been. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[Versus]

http://i.imgur.com/yeKUrll.gif

Here come the changes...

[Frieza_Prexus]

Rather than spending time to add simulated repops once a week (or two... or once every hour if you watch to catch up with the last 3+ years), FTE is added so there's less GM intervention. Of course, how it's going to do that without a disengage shout is another matter, but hell? Who cares, right? It's been clearly well thought out.

This solution does not preclude any other. No one's denying that other options exist that are far more efficacious in terms of positive contribution, but they're not mutually exclusive. You won't find anyone that thinks repops are a bad idea.

The variance was implemented and later refined. Take issue with the implementation and not the refining process.

[Skope]

This solution does not preclude any other. No one's denying that other options exist that are far more efficacious in terms of positive contribution, but they're not mutually exclusive. You won't find anyone that thinks repops are a bad idea.

The variance was implemented and later refined. Take issue with the implementation and not the refining process.

And FTE will be too.

The problem is the process and the persistent fumbling. It's just bandaids upon bandaids, hoping to salvage something until they get it right when in reality it never worked in the first place. This is no different. And rather than address something everyone wants and is truly classic, we'll get yet another bandaid.

[Splorf22]

http://i.imgur.com/yeKUrll.gif

Here come the changes...

this should be elethia's new sig!

[Halfelfbard]

To say that classic everquest wasn't flawed would b outrageous. This is a niche server, its classic that is played by or around 1k people, not thousands and thousands.

Its working within the best means possible, do i fully consider it classic? No. But it is what it is, i dont wanna crowd around 200+ people for a mob all week, thats just stupid.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Don't act as if this change is what remedied the situation

There's an undeniable and immediate correlation between the demise of socking and the implementation of the windows.

The only thing I have ever claimed is that they remedied was the variance's inability to completely eliminate socking. The variance is now functioning as it was originally intended. I personally believe that this server would prosper more with a system that prevents a person from ever knowing when a mob will spawn with any real certainty than it would under the previous variance or under a non-variance system. But, I'm open to the idea that I am mistaken. I think it'd be a great thing if we spent the next few months trying different schemes for a month or two at a time to gather data.

If you're really interested in improving the server make your argument more thoroughly and with a more proper presentation. I love raiding and rushing to engage a target as much as anyone in TMO, but don't accuse me of bad faith without just cause. Recrimination isn't going to move the ball.

[xarzzardorn]

You act as if you are the one to discuss with or please, when that isn't the case unless we are all missing something here. I guess i wouldn't be surprised though since your random idea gets slid in under Nilbog's nose.

I was here on this server raiding far before you were even up to raid level, back when it was truly classic timing. Raid scene was much better and there were far less targets. It wasn't until a change in the people through rules lawyering and other corruptive tactics inspired by variance which in turn has killed the scene/attitude here forever.

Simply said it is beyond repair due to the people it caters to and inspires to prosper, it is a flawed system always has been always will be.

so what youre saying is you have nothing useful to contribute. we already knew that

[Skope]

There's an undeniable and immediate correlation between the demise of socking and the implementation of the windows.

There's also undeniably a fair amount of favoritism towards zerg guilds with massive numbers by pushing massive windows - and to this point, both Nilbog and Rogean have admitted as much.

So what've we got as of late...

- We've got Nilbog and Rogean changing the mechanics of every NPC in the game because a few people used mouse and keyboard recorders to grab FTE. Somehow changing the mechanics of every NPC in the game is the logical solution to this problem.

- They've added another variance on top of the former one (that never worked and has been in place for three years) that the vast majority of players don't want, admitting that it's to the detriment of the majority of this server's raiding guilds and players. Mind you that this has been in place since February of this year, because apparently an "oopsie" that they admit actually harms more people than it helps is quite fine to sit in place for half a year (and it would be uncharacteristic to expect any sort of changes at all)

- Now we get an FTE shout mechanic that's going to require another 3-4 fixes before it's even passable

Frieza, there's little doubt the raid scene is a constant work in progress but that would be ignoring the apathy, ignorance, and inaptitude of the two at the top to actually take the proper steps to correct - or more accurately take any steps at all. It's gotten to the point where it's the same two people fumbling ball yet you're pointing to the dropped ball as the problem.

You can have the most accurate code that very closely resembles classic, but if you're implementation is anything but then it's all for nothing. What makes this worse is that they've admitted there are serious issues with it and that they've pushed patches recently that benefit no one or favor a certain subset of people, yet it's been nearly half a year and it still hasn't been fixed. If you're thinking, "How does that even happen?" then you need to remember that it's the same two people that kept the massive variance when it didn't work for a full three years, push patches that don't agree with, and are about as consistent as a coin flip. When you take into account what's happened the last 3+ years then it makes far more sense: they don't give a fuck, so why the hell do you?

[falkun]

I will humor your mean spirited query here. You apparently didn't comprehend my question, the question was when the initial FTE feigns death. Currently we have to fraps to show guide staff that the the initial engager had flopped.
Except FTE as a mechanic has ALWAYS been susceptible to this exploitation, Phisting points it out to you:
how is this any different from the current setup?
It's not.
FTE notifications will not solve your issue any more than current GM-reviewed FTE claims. The difference is FTE can now be decided without GM intervention.

If you are having issues with FTE and FD, I suggest your raid not engage until you obtain an affirmative FTE shout. Or, you could be civil human beings and come to an agreement, but why have civility in anything when you can force server CSR to define rules for everything? Sometimes the world doesn't need more rules, it just needs fewer people abusing them.

But you, Knix, are happy to pay millions to the lady who sued after spilling hot coffee on herself because the rule wasn't defined. Common sense should be the rule of this server, not litigation:
you're going to notice in time that i'm a very big advocate of "common sense" ;)

[Joroz]

The "it's not classic" argument is completely shit... Look, it's also not classic that everyone isn't paying a monthly subscription for each account holding toons. Without risking real investment in toons people are bigger shitbags here than on live. While the content on here is the closest to classic i have seen on any of the emulators the automation of gm type functions that are getting added can only help to free the gm's up to do real classic stuff like running events instead of mediating your personal bullshit.

[Wotsirb401]

I don't want to change the dynamic of pulling for raids. It's one thing to help sort out a cluster of who attacked first.. but being able to monitor aggro and disengages from anywhere in a zone is too much. If there are problems after implementation, I will look further into this.



Adding these scripts will take me very little time at all. I mean like.. 10 minutes if everyone is in agreement before I begin. If I can spend very little time to improve player experience and lessen the GM duties of the staff, I will.

These npcs will receive this functionality:
Any missing? Any foreseen problems with the npcs listed?

Dojo

[Ele]

Dojo

The following npcs have this functionality as of next patch:


lord nagafen
lady vox
cazic thule
trakanon
innoruuk
faydedar
talendor
gorenaire
severilous
venril sathir
maestro of rancor
noble djorn
a dracoliche

[Silent]

Want a solution for FTE? MOVE RED, Stop putting up with this bullshit FTE getting your loot stolen because some noob got it 1ms before you hit it. Every other post in non-pvp is about FTE crying. You won't find any of this when you can kill the person and take their camp/boss.

[nilbog]

There's also undeniably a fair amount of favoritism towards zerg guilds with massive numbers by pushing massive windows - and to this point, both Nilbog and Rogean have admitted as much.

So what've we got as of late...

- We've got Nilbog and Rogean changing the mechanics of every NPC in the game because a few people used mouse and keyboard recorders to grab FTE. Somehow changing the mechanics of every NPC in the game is the logical solution to this problem.

- They've added another variance on top of the former one (that never worked and has been in place for three years) that the vast majority of players don't want, admitting that it's to the detriment of the majority of this server's raiding guilds and players. Mind you that this has been in place since February of this year, because apparently an "oopsie" that they admit actually harms more people than it helps is quite fine to sit in place for half a year (and it would be uncharacteristic to expect any sort of changes at all)

- Now we get an FTE shout mechanic that's going to require another 3-4 fixes before it's even passable

Frieza, there's little doubt the raid scene is a constant work in progress but that would be ignoring the apathy, ignorance, and inaptitude of the two at the top to actually take the proper steps to correct - or more accurately take any steps at all. It's gotten to the point where it's the same two people fumbling ball yet you're pointing to the dropped ball as the problem.

You can have the most accurate code that very closely resembles classic, but if you're implementation is anything but then it's all for nothing. What makes this worse is that they've admitted there are serious issues with it and that they've pushed patches recently that benefit no one or favor a certain subset of people, yet it's been nearly half a year and it still hasn't been fixed. If you're thinking, "How does that even happen?" then you need to remember that it's the same two people that kept the massive variance when it didn't work for a full three years, push patches that don't agree with, and are about as consistent as a coin flip. When you take into account what's happened the last 3+ years then it makes far more sense: they don't give a fuck, so why the hell do you?


Well I'm on right now, not giving a fuck I guess. Adding the fte shouts, which are perl.. not even c++, took all of 10 minutes to figure out the best way, then about 5 more to implement. If it saves our gms time and petitions, great. If not, they will be changed or removed. This thread isn't about variance. If anyone on the 'staff' would want no variance, it is me. I also want npcs to win every fight, for players to have no item links, move around items within banked containers, and have their autoattack key default bound to 'A'. These issues to me are just as important as variance is to you.

I don't perform GM duties nor pay the folks who do.. so you won't see me forcing that upon them, especially when Rogean is in charge of csr. Go ahead and blame me if you need, because it certainly says project manager beneath my name. If you have a problem with content, you come right to me, ok?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For those who asked: weekly simulated patch day respawns are still on my agenda and will continue to be worked on amidst velious development.

The fte messages will not function on the pvp server.

[Ele]

I also want npcs to win every fight, for players to have no item links, move around items within banked containers, and have their autoattack key default bound to 'A'.

http://i.imgur.com/CJnvOLF.gif

[RevengeofGio]

Well I'm on right now, not giving a fuck I guess. Adding the fte shouts, which are perl.. not even c++, took all of 10 minutes to figure out the best way, then about 5 more to implement. If it saves our gms time and petitions, great. If not, they will be changed or removed. This thread isn't about variance. If anyone on the 'staff' would want no variance, it is me. I also want npcs to win every fight, for players to have no item links, move around items within banked containers, and have their autoattack key default bound to 'A'. These issues to me are just as important as variance is to you.

I don't perform GM duties nor pay the folks who do.. so you won't see me forcing that upon them, especially when Rogean is in charge of csr. Go ahead and blame me if you need, because it certainly says project manager beneath my name. If you have a problem with content, you come right to me, ok?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For those who asked: weekly simulated patch day respawns are still on my agenda and will continue to be worked on amidst velious development.

The fte messages will not function on the pvp server.

The role of a project manager can be described like this:

Every man on the team is in a line. Then people say who's to blame for this issue! Everyone else steps back 1 foot meanwhile the project has a beam behind him.

[Skope]

Well I'm on right now, not giving a fuck I guess. Adding the fte shouts, which are perl.. not even c++, took all of 10 minutes to figure out the best way, then about 5 more to implement. If it saves our gms time and petitions, great. If not, they will be changed or removed.

But how long would it take you to remove something that you've already admitted favors a certain subset of players? 6 months? 7? another three years?

This thread isn't about variance. If anyone on the 'staff' would want no variance, it is me.

This holds no water. 3+ years of the original variance that never worked and now you two (you've given the nod on this, as you two discussed it) to add another variance on top of it, which itself has been around for another 5 months.

You can claim you dislike it and that the additional variance sucks, but ultimately it's still here and has been here for the vast majority this server has been up. While I appreciate your sentiment, it's fruitless unless it's addressed. The patch notes say one thing (keep adding variance) while your forum posts say you dislike it and think it should be done away with. I agree with your forum posts, but who the hell gives a shit when the patch notes state the exact opposite? Unless it's RnF, we're not playing on the forums.

I don't perform GM duties nor pay the folks who do.. so you won't see me forcing that upon them, especially when Rogean is in charge of csr. Go ahead and blame me if you need, because it certainly says project manager beneath my name. If you have a problem with content, you come right to me, ok?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For those who asked: weekly simulated patch day respawns are still on my agenda and will continue to be worked on amidst velious development.

The fte messages will not function on the pvp server.

You've given the nod on this stuff, Nilbog. It's not like he went behind your back to implement it. 'Do whatever you want' only works provided there aren't screwups in the decision-making process, yet there's clearly been quite a few screwups in the decision-making process. In the end it makes both of you look bad.

The issue with FTE is that it isn't a step in the forward direction, but rather a step to the side that by itself does nothing to improve the situation. Coupled with the fact that there are blatant holes in the implementation and the other 'what in the hell were they thinking?' patches, one can only think of what's been ignored for seemingly an eternity would've been the better approach here. But hey, we've got FTE, right?

[RevengeofGio]

Well the basic premise of "We'll create a variance to make it more painful to camp raid bosses thus discouraging the behavior..." really had no such impact and actually hurt the server.

[xCry0x]

The role of a project manager can be described like this:

Every man on the team is in a line. Then people say who's to blame for this issue! Everyone else steps back 1 foot meanwhile the project has a beam behind him.

And you spend 99% of your time trying to explain to people that due to not having unlimited engineering resources everything they want added cannot be done overnight =P

Priorities???? Bullshit everything in the world should be implemented by Monday!

[nilbog]

But how long would it take you to remove something that you've already admitted favors a certain subset of players? 6 months? 7? another three years?



This holds no water. 3+ years of the original variance that never worked and now you two (you've given the nod on this, as you two discussed it) to add another variance on top of it, which itself has been around for another 5 months.

You can claim you dislike it and that the additional variance sucks, but ultimately it's still here and has been here for the vast majority this server has been up. While I appreciate your sentiment, it's fruitless unless it's addressed. The patch notes say one thing (keep adding variance) while your forum posts say you dislike it and think it should be done away with. I agree with your forum posts, but who the hell gives a shit when the patch notes state the exact opposite? Unless it's RnF, we're not playing on the forums.



You've given the nod on this stuff, Nilbog. It's not like he went behind your back to implement it. 'Do whatever you want' only works provided there aren't screwups in the decision-making process, yet there's clearly been quite a few screwups in the decision-making process. In the end it makes both of you look bad.

The issue with FTE is that it isn't a step in the forward direction, but rather a step to the side that by itself does nothing to improve the situation. Coupled with the fact that there are blatant holes in the implementation and the other 'what in the hell were they thinking?' patches, one can only think of what's been ignored for seemingly an eternity would've been the better approach here. But hey, we've got FTE, right?

Again, this thread is not about variance. You seem to think you know everything without asking me, or believing what I say, so why should I change your mind or respond to the rhetoric?

It is naive to assume you know perfectly how everything should work; I will say that. You should go to one of the variance threads and make a proposal of what you think should be done. If you have already done so, bump it. You will see a % of people agree with you, a % of people won't, a % of people read and don't post, and a % of people don't care whatsoever. There is a subset of the pvp server that is actually requesting variance, because of what no-variance does, even when they can resolve raids without gm intervention (pvp). Think about it. The rest of the gaming industry instituted instances for a reason - you can't please everyone.

Essentially, I tried to do something good with limited time. I have spent more time replying to this than instituting the fte shouts, so I'm not going to do so anymore.

Leave this thread for fte shouts. If you have a problem with fte shouts, talk about fte shouts. Fte shouts.

[SamwiseRed]

ya attack the main dev to this time piece, makes sense.

[Frieza_Prexus]

I tried to do something good with limited time.

I think the mere fact that we're arguing about something other than FTE shouts shows just how universally the community appreciates their implementation. So, for what it's worth, thank you.

Also, I think I missed it/am reading it wrong, but I just want to clarify because I'm slightly confused.

Is the following accurate?

"FTE shouts will issue upon FTE of the mob. A new/second shout will only issue should the mob reset its aggro list." Example: Monk hits Trak: FTE shout. Monk's buddy engages: NO FTE shout. Monk & his buddy die and aggro list clears .01 seconds later. Necro hits Trak: FTE Shout.

Do I have it right?

[Skope]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=86080&highlight=proposed
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=108771&highlight=proposed

And I'm assuming the proposed raid changes are also going down the toilet as well? You claimed they'd be implemented, but why should anyone believe that? (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=100681)

Quit adding non-classic mechanics to classic problems that had classic solutions. If you want guilds to quit /petitioning for every dumb thing then just delete the loot. You'll see how quickly they start getting along and cooperating.

[kotton05]

nilbog youre doing a good job, would love a pre-variance on spawns kinda like ragefire where once dead they in window again (maybe...;))

[nilbog]

I think the mere fact that we're arguing about something other than FTE shouts shows just how universally the community appreciates their implementation. So, for what it's worth, thank you.

Also, I think I missed it/am reading it wrong, but I just want to clarify because I'm slightly confused.

Is the following accurate?

"FTE shouts will issue upon FTE of the mob. A new/second shout will only issue should the mob reset its aggro list." Example: Monk hits Trak: FTE shout. Monk's buddy engages: NO FTE shout. Monk & his buddy die and aggro list clears .01 seconds later. Necro hits Trak: FTE Shout.

Do I have it right?

Yes. You can consider the fte shout an addition to when an npc would give its aggro message. i.e.



Talendor shouts 'How amusing. You foolish mortals actually think to challenge me? Very well, then, I shall enjoy searing the flesh from your bones!'
Talendor engages $name. (sent to clients within a reasonable distance)


If Talendor was still engaged, he would not show his aggro message again, because he is already engaged.

Nothing has changed about who was first to engage will be recorded, this merely displays in game what the GMs would check the event logs to determine.

[Stinkum]

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=86080&highlight=proposed
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=108771&highlight=proposed

And I'm assuming the proposed raid changes are also going down the toilet as well? You claimed they'd be implemented, but why should anyone believe that? (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=100681)

Quit adding non-classic mechanics to classic problems that had classic solutions. If you want guilds to quit /petitioning for every dumb thing then just delete the loot. You'll see how quickly they start getting along and cooperating.

Dude, you keep bringing up other issues when this thread is clearly about FTE shouts.

Nilbog is a good dude and talking down to him only makes the community here look like ungrateful dickheads.

Keep up the good work, nilbog.

[kotton05]

have you done any work with a monk/necro/sk that could FD after the shout?

[Skope]

Dude, you keep bringing up other issues when this thread is clearly about FTE shouts.

Nilbog is a good dude and talking down to him only makes the community here look like ungrateful dickheads.

Keep up the good work, nilbog.

Pointing out discrepancies and hypocrisy isn't bitching and whining from an ungrateful dickhead. Nilbog doesn't need any more praise from me, I've made it more than clear for the entire time i've been here that he's the only reasonable person on this whole project, and I can tell you that a vast majority of people feel the exact same way. But when he makes mistakes then you shouldn't cower behind a wall of 'thanks for everything, even the bad stuff.' If he decided to release Vah Shir as a playable race, he'd still be the most reasonable person running the show, but that doesn't make it a good idea and certainly doesn't jive with his "there will be no cats on the moon" statement.

The overwhelming majority of mistakes on this server have been CSR related, but lately the CSR problems have been pouring over into patch notes and Nilbog's been giving his okay on them. I'm not talking about instances which are iffy and there's a potential gray area, but stuff like changing the mechanics to every NPC in the game because a few dickheads want to run a mouse and keyboard recorder, or adding additional variance when a decrease in variance was promised...

How do you not question that? I'm grateful for the server, but I cringe every time a patch comes out, because it undoubtedly gets worse and worse

[Joroz]

I'm not talking about instances which are iffy and there's a potential gray area, but stuff like changing the mechanics to every NPC in the game because a few dickheads want to run a mouse and keyboard recorder, or adding additional variance when a decrease in variance was promised...


What mechanics were changed by this? It could have also be done with a gm toon spawning and shouting who had FTE, which is basically the same as what already happens when a gm is around. Just easier to do it the way it is. GM automation is definitely a step in the right direction. People need to stop confusing content with policies put in for management of the player base.

[Enygma]

Yes. You can consider the fte shout an addition to when an npc would give its aggro message. i.e.



Talendor shouts 'How amusing. You foolish mortals actually think to challenge me? Very well, then, I shall enjoy searing the flesh from your bones!'
Talendor engages $name. (sent to clients within a reasonable distance)


If Talendor was still engaged, he would not show his aggro message again, because he is already engaged.

Nothing has changed about who was first to engage will be recorded, this merely displays in game what the GMs would check the event logs to determine.

and if de-agro'd he would just shout again!!

Wow fuckin genius... these qq'ers need to go to another sand box! Good work nilbog sir!

[Nlaar]

I don't perform GM duties nor pay the folks who do.. so you won't see me forcing that upon them, especially when Rogean is in charge of csr. Go ahead and blame me if you need, because it certainly says project manager beneath my name. If you have a problem with content, you come right to me, ok?


Wait so GMs are paid (emphasis added)? Was that just an expression or have I been that clueless this entire time?

[nilbog]

It clearly says "I don't perform gm duties nor pay the folks who do" [perform gm duties].

Meaning, I don't perform that role, nor is anyone paid to perform that role. This isn't a business and I'm not forcing someone to babysit above and beyond the call of a volunteer position.

[Vandy]

If people would stop with the stupid comments then maybe the team would have more time, which is already their free time if I might add, to work on prominent issues.

As for FTE shouts, I think it's wonderful that you are putting this in. Every system will have issues with someone and the only way to find the best solution is to test it in on the server. The faster it gets rolled out, the faster the devs will be able to identify it's usefulness or lack there of and remove or rework the feature if needed.

Thank You

[Sirken]

The following npcs have this functionality as of next patch:


lord nagafen
lady vox
cazic thule
trakanon
innoruuk
faydedar
talendor
gorenaire
severilous
venril sathir
maestro of rancor
noble djorn
a dracoliche


What will happen? Players within a reasonable distance will receive a message stating $npcname engages $playername!

i.e. (Lord Nagafen) : everyone near the fire giant castle would receive a 'Lord Nagafen engages Nilbog!' message, in yellow, if I was first to engage.


The outdoor dragons will function the same, but at a much greater distance.

I hope this small addition helps to alleviate some of the problems in determining first to engage. If it causes problems, it can be removed.

reminder bump

[Ele]

ETA on patch?

[Atmas]

Wait so GMs are paid (emphasis added)? Was that just an expression or have I been that clueless this entire time?

A sad day for reading comprehension.

[Splorf22]

ETA on patch?

This is building up to be one of the biggest patches in P1999 history!

[bizzum]

Bump for thanks! Very much looking forward to this and many other good changes!

[nilbog]

These were introduced in the patch earlier today.

Any particular issues?
Any npcs which should have further distance?
Do you like them? Dislike them?

Easy changes; let me know.

[xarzzardorn]

fte shouts are sweet

[Vianna]

I like em I just would like a clarification from GMS. IF say 2 pullers go for a raid mob from opposing guilds. One gets the FTE shout but the other gets on the hate list....Does the list have to clear and a new shout given before a guild can kill that mob and get credit ? I witnessed the last Talendor pull on my monk today and a rapture puller had the FTE shout so I pulled off to let him have it...he died while I was following and no other FTE shout was given that I saw personally before it was pulled and killed. I was waiting on the reset to try again thinking the mob needs to reset his FTE shout before pulling.

[Zeelot]

A bit more distance would be nice on outdoor targets like the dragons. On many we didn't even see shouts. Also, the shouts may not work correctly when the player uses an eye of zomm to take initial aggro. Gorenaire didn't seem to shout when pulled using an eye.

But other than that the shouts are awesome. Thanks for putting them in.

[Vianna]

A bit more distance would be nice on outdoor targets like the dragons. On many we didn't even see shouts. Also, the shouts may not work correctly when the player uses an eye of zomm to take initial aggro. Gorenaire didn't seem to shout when pulled using an eye.

But other than that the shouts are awesome. Thanks for putting them in.

Yeah Talendors range was pretty good though you didn't have to be right up on it to see it. Would be good to be zone wide for those though or close to it so people know whether to back off to see if it has reset on the pull and give em time to decide to see they didn't actually have the shout. When 2 or 3 pullers are on a mob and one dies sometimes you pickup aggro from trying to tag at the same time and still kill another guilds FTE etc.

[Ele]

Is it possible that the FTE shouts on dracoliche and CT could have messed with the zone wide DT list when aggroing draco/golem/ct? There were some issues where the DT cycle seemed to have long pauses in it or would reset.

[Ele]

I like em I just would like a clarification from GMS. IF say 2 pullers go for a raid mob from opposing guilds. One gets the FTE shout but the other gets on the hate list....Does the list have to clear and a new shout given before a guild can kill that mob and get credit ? I witnessed the last Talendor pull on my monk today and a rapture puller had the FTE shout so I pulled off to let him have it...he died while I was following and no other FTE shout was given that I saw personally before it was pulled and killed. I was waiting on the reset to try again thinking the mob needs to reset his FTE shout before pulling.

technically, yes, would need to completely reset otherwise the aggro list is still active with the other guy having FTE.