Wizard vs Mage

[Vanessa]

So I plan on making another caster, the last class I played was an Enchanter. Shes a lot of fun, but I want to try something with a little more damage as well as nuking power. My first thought was Wizard, I get to blast stuff, plus teleport around! But then I was reading some threads where people were saying Wizards are an afk class and very boring, that they only nuke once a fight, then sit down medding until the next one. Also I was reading that a Mage does almost as much damage nuke wise as Wizards, plus get really strong pets that add even better dps. So now I am kind of in a bind, I am not really sure which to go with. Maybe some of you can offer your personal opinions on the class, or point out some not so obvious advantages and disadvantages of each, to kind of help me make up my mind. I should also note that my friend has a level 21 Enchanter so I will probably be grouping with her alot lvl 20+ also. Does one work better then the other as a duo with an Enc? Any info/opinions will help, thanks guys!

[Destan]

I've played both an enchanter and wizard to max level on this server, so here is my take:

The wizard class is more challenging than the mage, and is very much an 'afk class' sometimes. In fast-paced group and raid settings you'll find yourself sitting through most of it, waiting for mana. However, when those 'oh shit' moments hit you are invaluable, burning that mob down at an incredible speed and saving the day. The mage is more versatile when it comes to what you can do alone. It's a much better class for farming gear, materials, or just straight cash. And it's more useful to an xp group since you can always provide something to each fight with the pet.

However, when it comes to pairing with the enchanter, it depends on how well you play the class. Mage pets can wreak havoc on enchanter control if they break mez at a crucial moment. Not to mention enchanters will generally be charming, which means two things: They are utilizing their pet as the bulk of the dps and they will need to root things to maintain control. A wizard contributes more to this than a mage being able to do more damage in a shorter amount and most importantly, wizards have root where mages do not (no, the earth pet isn't reliable enough). Not to mention the mobility a wizard provides is great.

So long story short: If you can stomach the leveling and subpar solo experience you get as a wizard you will enjoy pairing with your enchanter buddy (and he will enjoy you too). If you want to be a farming machine, you will still be able to partner up and be effective enough.

[renegadeofunk]

I'd take mage over wiz with a chanter duo. The enchanter would be going through the same motions as if he were charm soloing but with better dps. The main problem with both classes is that you have no heals so you need to keep recharming new pets and also hope the enchanter doesn't take too much damage to have to sit and regen. Shaman/druid/cleric would work a lot better if you're at all interested in those classes.

[Pyrion]

I would take a druid. It's the most wizard-like priest class, you can almost pretend to be a wizard. Druids port and root as well as a wizard. Nukes are a bit weaker of course, but better than the other priests. You also get snare which is great if you want to fear kite with your chanter buddy. Plus a snared charmed pet is a safe pet. Druid+chanter has the most complete set of abilities that i can imagine.

[Clark]

wiz, druid, mage, sham if you wanna duo with ench and be able to nuke

As an enchanter I'd rather level with a shaman over anything because they can malo/slow and tank if needed. Second would be druid, third mage (pet can tank if you get too low of mana from long fight), fourth wiz. Ofcourse cleric is amazing with enchanter too so you can slow NPC and CH pet. Very efficient.

[renegadeofunk]

I forgot to mention that necromancers are one of the best duos with an enchanter and it sounds like the type of class you'd be interested in. You have a fairly strong pet, you can heal (level 20), snare, root, fear, and dps well. Eventually you can even charm undead for double the fun. Your early life will also be easier because enchanters don't really come into their own until 35+ from a solo/duo standpoint.

[Tecmos Deception]

Wizard and enchanter is a better duo than mage and enchanter. The person who commented that mage pets will break roots and that that will be bad was right on the money. Roots lasting, and lasting a long time, are essential to an enchanter's success.

The wizard instead of the mage doesn't bring as much sustained damage, but the wizard DOES bring extra stuns and roots to the equation, more burst damage, and ports.


That said, a necro would be a better choice still, if you wanted to do it, primarily because the necro can help heal the enchanter, and, at higher levels, do awesome pulls with invis, IVU, undead lulls (plus enchanter with invis, ivu, and normal lulls), rez the chanter if things go bad, and other fun stuff like that.

[Vanessa]

Hey everyone thanks for the suggestions so far, I didnt even consider Druid or Necro because I just assumed they wouldnt be very good for a duo. I mean I know a Druid can heal/root/snare, but I figured that would be better for full groups. And the Necro, I thought that was like the very LAST pick for any group or duo? I was under the impression that Necros offered very very little to a group or a duo, I thought they were a completely solo class only, and were the very last choice for most people to want in a party. Someone a few posts said something like a Necro is like the Mage, just better...or something of that sort. Maybe some of you can elaborate on that? I havent considered Necro until now because I thought it was the class people played alone and not with others?

[diplo]

i'm a mage and i used to duo fungi king/crypt with my buddy loraen back in the day.

can't say wizards can do the same =/

plus, you will get tells for exp groups as a mage.

[Tecmos Deception]

Hey everyone thanks for the suggestions so far, I didnt even consider Druid or Necro because I just assumed they wouldnt be very good for a duo. I mean I know a Druid can heal/root/snare, but I figured that would be better for full groups. And the Necro, I thought that was like the very LAST pick for any group or duo? I was under the impression that Necros offered very very little to a group or a duo, I thought they were a completely solo class only, and were the very last choice for most people to want in a party. Someone a few posts said something like a Necro is like the Mage, just better...or something of that sort. Maybe some of you can elaborate on that? I havent considered Necro until now because I thought it was the class people played alone and not with others?

Druids can heal and buff, but that doesn't really make them a preferred choice for most groups. Their heals lack enough punch to do the job at high levels, and their buffs usually are redundant because of the presence of a cleric or shaman. Damage shields are underrated, though, imo. Druid would work fine with an enchanter, providing extra damage, buffs and heals for the enchanter, help with root CC, and ports.

Necros offer a ton to a duo OR a group. They are underappreciated because a lot of people don't know how necros can use their HUGE variety of spells to great effect in many different situations.


i'm a mage and i used to duo fungi king/crypt with my buddy loraen back in the day.

can't say wizards can do the same =/

plus, you will get tells for exp groups as a mage.

Don't listen to this guy. Epic mages are unique snowflakes in the game, really, and if you start a mage with plans for having your epic pet and duoing the entire game with a donals cleric, you'll be disappointed for a very long time (possibly forever).

Also, Loraen has solod king, so obviously it is possible for an enchanter and a wizard (or any other class, for that matter) to duo it... even if enchanter+wizard would be a harder duo for king than something like enchanter + cle/sham/nec/whatever.

[diplo]

Also, Loraen has solod king, so obviously it is possible for an enchanter and a wizard (or any other class, for that matter) to duo it... even if enchanter+wizard would be a harder duo for king than something like enchanter + cle/sham/nec/whatever.

i haven't seen loraen solo the king (but i believe it), but i'm sure about 75% of it was luck that slow landed after tash. malo+sini will help a lot in that particular situation, can't see a wizzy doin anything to help in that situation. you have no margin for error with a wizzy. if charm breaks on a chanter's pet, least my pet can tank while he recharms. if you overnuke on a wizard, you gain aggro and you die or you can just sit there and watch and get some afk loot. wizard is the easier class to play. you sit and hit a nuke button (most wizzys) in group situations because most wizzy's won't take the time to stun (probably cause they're lazy) - i'm sure if a group is sitting there and waiting for you to hopefully wipe on king, a chanter would take a mage over a wizard 100% of the time (though sham would be most preferred).


yea although mage's can just send a pet on a mob, i can DS, malo and can do everything a wizard can except quad kite.

if a mage can't find a group, you can solo, you can farm a majority of items on ez mode.

plus, mage's are the least dependent for gear. if you don't have over 200 int for a wizzy, you won't quad kite properly, can't say the same for a mage here.

but to OP, it all depends on what you're looking to do. i have the most fun killing targets and doing camps that are challenging and require a lot of strategy, and you have many more options as a mage. if you just want to have a breezy time exping in groups, quad kiting and porting around, be a wizard, but one thing for certain is you can do a lot more FUN stuff as a mage, epic pet or not.

[SCB]

As a high level enchanter, my 2cp is that I'd prefer to duo with the following classes in order:
- Druid
- Necro
- Wizard
- Mage
- Shaman

Reason why is that Ench/Druid can crush damn near anything, and druid Snare/Regen/Thorns makes charming mind-numbingly easy. I'd take a Druid down and do Skyfire mobs all day long for silly exp and chance at CotH dropping. Mages/Shaman's don't bring a lot to the party, and Mages break root like nothing. I'd still group with either any day, but would prefer classes higher on that list.

As for Wiz/Mage it all comes down to what you want to do. It's certainly possible to go a little less mana efficient but drop rank to a lower level nuke that you can use more often in groups, or focus on chainstuns and whatnot as a Wiz. It's absolutely possible to quickly and easily solo with either class. I've seen Mages make or break high level groups with great plays too. It all depends on your playstyle.

Strictly for duoing purposes, I'd go with Wiz over a Mage for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is on-demand Teleport. Kit synergy is higher with a Wiz unless you're doing something insane like 2-manning deep Seb or HS (which, if you're doing that, bring a Necro instead)

[Tecmos Deception]

Shaman's don't bring a lot to the party

Hahaha. I had a good laugh when I read this.

[Tenlaar]

Inorite, how could the two most powerful solo classes combined be good?!

[Tecmos Deception]

On topic again though, the bottom line for the OP is that any of the int or wis casters will work just fine as a duo with an enchanter. Mage and wiz are probably the weakest overall options, but even then you will level up just fine (and even duo just about anything at 60). Cleric and shaman are certainly the strongest combos with an enchanter, but neither are really the "caster with some nuking power" than the OP is looking for.

OP did mention he was concerned with being bored by the limited playstyle of a wizard, though, and imo a mage isn't a lot different than that since you have a pet to manage + nukes, but you lack the stun and root options a wizard has to sometimes help keep him busy. With a chanter around to clarity, wiz or mage wouldn't be as slow as they are solo, but if you are looking for more to keep you busy then definitely consider a necro, druid, or sham. I'd say any of them will stay busy in that pairing, plus they can all solo if you fancy that. Cleric is ridiculously awesome with a chanter, but a lot like a wizard in that you have stuns and roots, just instead of nuking you are healing.

[falkun]

And if you ever get bored of the duo, healer (SHM/DRU/CLR) + ENC will get you more groups than WIZ/MAG+ENC.

[Splorf22]

So in my opinion the top 3 duos for an enchanter are Shaman, Cleric, and Enchanter and it depends on the situation which is actually best (shaman for ultra boss mobs where you can stack -100MR and both chain slow; enchanter for fast killing with two charmed pets; clerics are almost as good at both). If there are undead around, then the Necromancer also falls into this category (two charmed pets, a few heals, a bit of crowd control).

Magician is slightly worse but still very good (malo is nice, the pet can tank on charm breaks) but they have no way to heal you so you can't be lazy.

Finally you have Druid, Paladin, and no-undead-Necromancer. Basically they can heal you a bit and throw some roots and nukes around.

An enchanter can duo with any class effectively, even pure melee, but I think Tecmos is just trolling you on Wizard being a better duo than Magician :P And I have no idea what SCB is talking about. Druid/Enchanter is not bad at all of course, but its not close to Shaman/Enchanter unless you like to get ported around.

[SCB]

Hahaha. I had a good laugh when I read this.

I meant party as in beer and chips, not party as in group of people. Everyone knows shammies are awesome in groups. When duoing, I prefer druids over shamans for that sweet sweet damage shield, especially since when soloing we don't really care if our pet dies, since it's basically just free xp and we grab another anyway, so Slow loses a bit of value.


An enchanter can duo with any class effectively, even pure melee, but I think Tecmos is just trolling you on Wizard being a better duo than Magician :P And I have no idea what SCB is talking about. Druid/Enchanter is not bad at all of course, but its not close to Shaman/Enchanter unless you like to get ported around.

I feel like we're discussing accomplishing very different things. For grinding mobs/exp at every level and stage of the game, I find druid vastly superior to shaman for the reasons above. Obviously if you're going for high-value, very-difficult targets, you'll pick differently.

[Tecmos Deception]

I wasn't trolling! Maybe my lack of experience with epic mages is the catching point, but I would rather solo than group with a mage. Every damn pet procs a nuke or a root and mages love giving their pets swords with even more procs. The last thing I want to deal with when I'm farming something is root breaks every 5 seconds. Maybe if the fight is half over already or the chanter makes liberal use of mem blur, the magician pet will keep aggro on a charm break... but I'm skeptical. I'd much prefer a second rooter+stunner with lame sustained damage+great burst.


And SCB, shamans are awesome at everything, not just grouping. Maybe 1-59 shaman and druid are pretty interchangeable when paired with a chanter, though I still would have to think having a shaman doing malo, slow, plus buffs and heals would be preferable to having a druid who can snare, DS, buff, and heal. And then at 60 it's no contest.

I'm at a bit of a loss as to why you would let a charmed pet die when duoing, when you could instead give it proccing weapons and a bunch of haste and other buffs and then keep it alive. The extra mobs you'd kill with that monster of a pet is going to get you wayyyy more xp than you'd get from finishing off a nearly-dead ex-pet every few kills.

[SCB]

And SCB, shamans are awesome at everything, not just grouping. Maybe 1-59 shaman and druid are pretty interchangeable when paired with a chanter, though I still would have to think having a shaman doing malo, slow, plus buffs and heals would be preferable to having a druid who can snare, DS, buff, and heal. And then at 60 it's no contest.

I'm at a bit of a loss as to why you would let a charmed pet die when duoing, when you could instead give it proccing weapons and a bunch of haste and other buffs and then keep it alive. The extra mobs you'd kill with that monster of a pet is going to get you wayyyy more xp than you'd get from finishing off a nearly-dead ex-pet every few kills.

Again, it's hardly like I'm bashing Shamans. I just don't think "who's best at 60" is at all the question here, since the guy is talking about leveling with a buddy.

I wouldn't necessarily advocate for letting the pet die, but I don't see a reason to value shammy slow over ench slow in a duoing situation because if worst comes to worst you're not losing anything of real value. It's not like a druid can't keep up a pet just fine for the few seconds it may be in danger, and you can always just have the pet heal itself if you really need it at 100% between pulls. Hell, if youre in the right zones, a druid can be right there charming with you, so you gain the theoretical benefit of two enchanters charming, too.

You seem to be focusing on the weirdest specifics, rather than my general point.

I wasn't trolling! Maybe my lack of experience with epic mages is the catching point, but I would rather solo than group with a mage. Every damn pet procs a nuke or a root and mages love giving their pets swords with even more procs. Maybe if the fight is half over already or the chanter makes liberal use of mem blur, the magician pet will keep aggro on a charm break... but I'm skeptical. I'd much prefer a second rooter+stunner with lame sustained damage+great burst.


This more sort of general thought process is where I'm coming from. In general, I'd prefer one class to another, and it has nothing to do with specific camps or level ranges.

[HippoNipple]

Mage will be better for exp at any point in my opinion.

Wizard will be more fun end game if you like raiding. Ports are a huge plus for me.

Best duo for an enchanter level 50+ is a cleric. As a cleric/enchanter duo I can't see you having too many problems finding groups for exp either. As a duo at low levels you can make it work. Both classes are able to solo to 50 so you can make it work as a duo obviously.

[HippoNipple]

I also want to say that shaman/druid would be better at lower lvls because their heals aren't so bad and when you are charming at low levels killing your charmed pet after you kill a mob isn't a bad idea. The moment you get to the level where it makes sense to start buffing and keeping your pet around is the moment clerics become better as a duo partner. As far as buffs go Cleric/Enchanter have the best buff/debuff combo. There is too much overlap between the enchanter/shaman.

Also it would be nice to have the cleric around for rez when the enchanter dies. Enchanters are the easiest class to die on after all.

[Waedawen]

Druids can heal and buff, but that doesn't really make them a preferred choice for most groups. Their heals lack enough punch to do the job at high levels, and their buffs usually are redundant because of the presence of a cleric or shaman. Damage shields are underrated, though, imo. Druid would work fine with an enchanter, providing extra damage, buffs and heals for the enchanter, help with root CC, and ports.

Tecmos you break my heart bro. "Work Fine?" Sadface.


Druids are exceptional partners for an enchanter. If you know how to do a certain trick with a certain combination of spells, I would say they're right alongside clerics but not quite Torpor Shamans - a shaman with Torpor is indeed the best partner for an enchanter at 60. The ability for the shaman to tank with Torpor allows for more hardcore mobs than the Druid / Enchanter combo might be able to handle, but still I have yet to meet something that my dru/ench team can't surmount.

You may be able to tackle hard core mobs with the Shaman, but more dangerous stuff would be easier to attempt and do with the druid. Druids are AWESOME safety nets for enchanters between snare, root, evac and heal. Once you get to the point where you can appreciate and wield the amount of CC and power between the two of you nothing should really phase you.. at all.

And during the Velious era it only gets better. Dual charm in pretty much every zone.

[Splorf22]

Sorry Petros but IMHO there is no way Druid/Enchanter can take down Korocust. When you have these high level mobs raping your pets for 500-1000 damage a round you just absolutely have to get them slowed. And Malo+tash and two players chaining slow is the best way to do it. If you have less you run the risk of the RNG fucking you. Like Monk+Shm, if you get a bunch of slow resists and no tash procs. So for example here are my rough guesses for win probability for two skilled L60 players vs the myconid spore king:

100%: Enc+Shm, War/Mnk/SK/Rng/Pal/Mag+Donal's Cleric
95%: Enc+Enc/Clr/Mag, War/Mnk/Sk/Pal/Mag+Shaman
75%: Enc+Nec/Dru, Nec/Shm, Rng/Shm
60%: Enc with strings/wand of allure solo
25%: Enc w/out strings solo

Good point about the charming though Petros. I'd still rather have malo/turgurs/torpor but in Chardok Druids would be nice. I have always wanted to make a charming druid :D Cheap too!

[Tenlaar]

Also, and I'm assuming this works on this server, torpor on the charmed pet makes for a super easy controlled break/recharm.

[diplo]

Wizard will be more fun end game if you like raiding. Ports are a huge plus for me.

which part is fun? porting people when bosses pop?

[Vanessa]

Yeah I was mostly talking about just leveling, not so much of farming specific mobs at level 60, that would be like months away lol.

[mimixownzall]

Invite a wizard if you need a port, then boot him for a mage. Honestly, how many times have you been in a group and ever thought, "man, there is a mage LFG but I want this wizard!"

[SCB]

Yeah I was mostly talking about just leveling, not so much of farming specific mobs at level 60, that would be like months away lol.

There is very little division between the ultra-hardcore and the fairly casual on these boards, so just keep in mind that if you're asking for advice, you're gonna get it from both camps.

Filter out what's most applicable for your situation and make a decision that results in the most fun, is my best advice. People here are insanely knowledgeable about EQ, so the people advising you for super-hardcore 2-manning (aka Loraen above with Spore King) may not apply to your situation, but still provide valuable insight and perspective.

[diplo]

Invite a wizard if you need a port, then boot him for a mage. Honestly, how many times have you been in a group and ever thought, "man, there is a mage LFG but I want this wizard!"

OP: like i said it depends on what you want to do...

if player skill, class knowledge, and level were equal and no bias - if there was a group of 5 and they needed DPS and there wizzy and mage were lfg, 10/10 they would invite the mage.

wizzy's will solo the majority of the time and quad kite. mage's will solo the majority of the time up to 55, but if you want to change it up and have an easier time finding a group, mage will prevail.

[Acillatem]

As a WIZ my group tactics are dependent upon the other classes in the group. If I was grouped with an ENC who preferred to charm DPS, then I would make an /assist ENC key and load up a couple of fast cast stuns (50dmg) to help the ENC re-obtain charm when it broke. Otherwise I would simply use a long casting stun once (750dmg too), snare if needed, let the pet do the bulk of the work, and depending on the XP loc, I could also pull/root mobs for chain killing.

Duoing with an ENC I would offer less DPS than a MAG, but would offer way more versatility and safety, as well as an evac option and burst DPS should the need arise. It would probably be a wash long term IMO if you were looking at overall XP flow (if the WIZ played his class right and didn't just nuke once per mob and med).

[HippoNipple]

which part is fun? porting people when bosses pop?

If you don't like to DPS through DD spells in fights I don't know what to tell you, wizard isn't for you. What else would be fun about a wizard during a boss fight? I would much rather port and DPS than make mod rods.

[diplo]

(if the WIZ played his class right and didn't just nuke once per mob and med).

thats about the majority of the wizzys on this server my old VD friend.

[Vanessa]

So I wanted to stay an Int caster because I already have some Int gear I can transfer over from my Enchanter, and it seems like in regards to leveling (which is all I am concerned with right now), its between Necro or Mage. I originally didnt consider Necro because I know Ill be soloing/duoing. However Ill also want to group a lot too, and I assumed Necro wasnt very good for a group because most mobs wont last the length of there Dots, which wouldnt make them very desirable for groups, no? Are there any pro Necros here, that can tell me a bit more about Necro play style / what they can offer to groups while leveling? Like I said I am not really concerned with lvl 60 duo farming items, just random groups while leveling up. Ill probably make my decision based on what you guys say! Thanks for all help and info everyone!

[Splorf22]

Well necros are very good in groups, but most people don't play them very well. A good necro is

1) charming a pet for 100 dps, and unlike an enchanter they can easily heal up after charm breaks
2) using screaming terror to interrupt casters
3) snaring runners
4) Continuously healing the MT for 125/tick
5) helping CC with screaming terror and paralyzing earth

If you do all this you'll be almost as effective as a good enchanter, which is very effective.