Petition for permanent IP ban punishment option

[Ezalor]

Does anyone else think it's weak that someone can get caught RMTing or cheating and simply make a new account in 2 seconds and keep playing?

I'm not saying all in-game bans should be IP bans, but the more drastic offenses definitely should. Get caught RMTing or using cheating/third party software should be a permanent IP ban.

/Sign if you agree.

[Ezalor]

Example: Nocturne/Sonaa/Evelinn. He got caught red handed RMTing and he simply just made a new account and now sells Bard power-levels for 2.5k a pull. He'll be more careful to not get caught RMTing this time, and meanwhile he knows that if he does he knows he can still just do the same thing all over.

[Tecmos Deception]

In other news, the death penalty not only deters everyone from committing heinous crimes, but it also never gets used on innocent parties by accident!

[Bidoof]

Only problem I see would be the fluidity of IP addresses. Most people have dynamic IPs. I unplug my modem for 5 minutes, I get a new one assigned to me. Even ignoring that, a really determined person could do a bunch of things: get a new ISP, use a phone tether, connect at a public place, hide behind 7 proxies, etc.

Though I would totally get behind an effort that would permanently ban the types of offenders you list.

[Ezalor]

Only problem I see would be the fluidity of IP addresses. Most people have dynamic IPs. I unplug my modem for 5 minutes, I get a new one assigned to me. Even ignoring that, a really determined person could do a bunch of things: get a new ISP, use a phone tether, connect at a public place, hide behind 7 proxies, etc.

Though I would totally get behind an effort that would permanently ban the types of offenders you list.

Good point. I wonder if there's any type of way to permanent ban in game.

[Lazortag]

Example: Nocturne/Sonaa/Evelinn. He got caught red handed RMTing and he simply just made a new account and now sells Bard power-levels for 2.5k a pull. He'll be more careful to not get caught RMTing this time, and meanwhile he knows that if he does he knows he can still just do the same thing all over.

2.5k a pull? What a ripoff!

Only problem I see would be the fluidity of IP addresses. Most people have dynamic IPs. I unplug my modem for 5 minutes, I get a new one assigned to me. Even ignoring that, a really determined person could do a bunch of things: get a new ISP, use a phone tether, connect at a public place, hide behind 7 proxies, etc.

Though I would totally get behind an effort that would permanently ban the types of offenders you list.

While it's true that you can just get a new IP, the point is that these people shouldn't be allowed to keep playing if they've been "permanently" banned. Ie, if they admit to being who they are in game, they should be banned again, and if their guild hides who they are, the guild should be punished too. The only way to get around this would be to cheat and just assume a new identity, but then you wouldn't be able to get PLed back to 60 easily, so it's not that big of a harm. The biggest problem is when people get banned and then use their connections to get PLed again. This has been a huge issue on both servers and it would be great to see it addressed.

[Gadwen]

The intention is legitimate and I do support it, but I honestly doubt IP bans will accomplish much. If someone really wants to get back in they will anyway. Steal a neighbors wifi, tether their cellphone, and hell even get a new ISP. None of those things are hard to do.

[Yajirobe Yajipants]

Just delete the toon. If that's not possible, delevel and strip the toon.

[Swish]

Just delete the toon. If that's not possible, delevel and strip the toon.

Now we're talking, de-level all characters to 1, stripped, coined and they can start again. Play properly and it can never happen to you.

[Ele]

Let me reset my router.

[Swish]

Let me reset my router.

Easy to do once you've been delevelled to 1 and stripped of all items. Reset x1000 if you want, won't bring your RMT pixels back :D

[TWDL_Prexus]

HWID ban.

[Ezalor]

Swish, you seem to be extremely confused here.

1 - Person A gets caught RMTing
2 - Person A's EQEmu account is banned as punishment. He can no longer access his PP or characters on that account. No need to delete his character. He already can't play it.
3 - Person A creates a new EQEmu account
4 - Person A starts all over and RMTs once again.

The fact that there is no permanent punishment and this person can start over so easily is what I wanted to address.

My question is, with fluid IPs, is there any possible way we can have any type of permanent punishment for people who deserve it?

[Lagaidh]

I voted that I do not agree. For the average computer user (read: just about everyone here. No, writing a log parser does not make you an expert on all things computer-related), it's difficult to guarantee that your network could become compromised.

A tech savvy person with an axe to grind against a player would need only to gain access to their target's computer and then pull any number of P99 tricks that result in this perma IP ban to gain their jollies.

I realize such an occurrence would have an astronomically low likelihood of happening, but I've always been a bit more comfortable with a criminal in my ranks than a free person rotting in jail.

My argument against is ideological I suppose.

EDIT: Covered. I'm late as usual.

[Yajirobe Yajipants]

Swish, you seem to be extremely confused here.

1 - Person A gets caught RMTing
2 - Person A's EQEmu account is banned as punishment. He can no longer access his PP or characters on that account. No need to delete his character. He already can't play it.
3 - Person A creates a new EQEmu account
4 - Person A starts all over and RMTs once again.

The fact that there is no permanent punishment and this person can start over so easily is what I wanted to address.

My question is, with fluid IPs, is there any possible way we can have any type of permanent punishment for people who deserve it?

The idea is to negate the benefits and prolong the amount of time until RMT begins again. Since RMT can't be contained and eliminated, inconvenience is the next best thing.

Edit: Also, public shaming. Public posts regarding toon/account banned.

[Ele]

Easy to do once you've been delevelled to 1 and stripped of all items. Reset x1000 if you want, won't bring your RMT pixels back :D

This I support.

[Ezalor]

@Yaji Thanks for clarifying.

Interesting. Uthgaard (the DAOC server) did public ban lists, on forum and globally broadcasted in-game.

[Splorf22]

ip bans are silly, half the people here are on DHCP and will get a new ip soonish.

Of course with their spyware rogean and co can probably get a better fingerprint of your computer.

[Lazortag]

Swish, you seem to be extremely confused here.

1 - Person A gets caught RMTing
2 - Person A's EQEmu account is banned as punishment. He can no longer access his PP or characters on that account. No need to delete his character. He already can't play it.
3 - Person A creates a new EQEmu account
4 - Person A starts all over and RMTs once again.

The fact that there is no permanent punishment and this person can start over so easily is what I wanted to address.

My question is, with fluid IPs, is there any possible way we can have any type of permanent punishment for people who deserve it?

The problem is that currently, only accounts and characters are banned. "Players" are never really banned because if they reroll on a new account, they're allowed (under the rules) to play on the server. This should change - when someone is "permanently" banned, they shouldn't be allowed to play on any account, period. If they admit who they are in game, that should get them banned again. This way they can't get PLed back to 60 or assisted in any other way. They can come back, but it'll be a lot harder.

[OMGWTF420]

^^^^

mad RMTer is mad

[Tecmos Deception]

I propositioned a couple people.

if you have info on RMTing, please submit a petition, or send me a PM.

:)

[jerok88]

First of all I wasn't caught RMT'n. There is no evidence whatsoever that I ever RMT'd, only that I propositioned a couple people. Second of all, I know you're fucking retarded and all and for this reason a permanent IP ban would work on you but to anyone with a brain it would take a very short amount of time to hop on a VPN and problem solved. Third of all, if I really gave a fuck what some worthless pieces of shit like you thought about me, I would try to hide my identity better and nobody would even have ever had a clue who the fuck I am.

Nocturne. Giving bards everywhere a bad name!

[Thulack]

First of all I wasn't caught RMT'n. There is no evidence whatsoever that I ever RMT'd, only that I propositioned a couple people. Second of all, I know you're fucking retarded and all and for this reason a permanent IP ban would work on you but to anyone with a brain it would take a very short amount of time to hop on a VPN and problem solved. Third of all, if I really gave a fuck what some worthless pieces of shit like you thought about me, I would try to hide my identity better and nobody would even have ever had a clue who the fuck I am.

we would all smell the nerdrage a mile a way.

[Adolphus]

First of all I wasn't caught RMT'n. There is no evidence whatsoever that I ever RMT'd, only that I propositioned a couple people. Second of all, I know you're fucking retarded and all and for this reason a permanent IP ban would work on you but to anyone with a brain it would take a very short amount of time to hop on a VPN and problem solved. Third of all, if I really gave a fuck what some worthless pieces of shit like you thought about me, I would try to hide my identity better and nobody would even have ever had a clue who the fuck I am.

I don't understand why this person is not banned? How can you possibly be admitting to the worst offense right here in this thread, cursing out and mocking server, and not have your account deleted and banned? Integrity?

{confused dwarf}

[Nune]

Just delete the toon. If that's not possible, delevel and strip the toon.

This. IP Bans are 2 thousnd and late pals.

[Gadwen]

I don't understand why this person is not banned? How can you possibly be admitting to the worst offense right here in this thread, cursing out and mocking server, and not have your account deleted and banned? Integrity?

{confused dwarf}

Well that's kinda what this thread is about. Someone can get banned, and all they lose access to is the specific account(s) that the offense was committed on. That person can still create a new account and continue to play here.

[EchoedTruth]

Anyone who wants perma IP bans is a fucking moron. IPs change, you can change yours in about 5 minutes!

[senna]

I don't understand why this person is not banned? How can you possibly be admitting to the worst offense right here in this thread, cursing out and mocking server, and not have your account deleted and banned? Integrity?

{confused dwarf}

Thats nothing compared to the last thread where he endorsed RMT and said it was good for the server, and talked about how his prices were better than platlords.

If you think this RMT isnt hurting the server, look at the market right now. Its straight up out of control.

Nocturne runs around with his RMT and slandering of the community and the shit-pool is getting full. We better strain it, before it overflows and causes a shit-slide that can cover this entire community. There will be a Pompeiian shitastrophe in p99 at this rate.

[Exmo]

Not really technically possible without making players identify themselves when they start new accounts or something. IP's change all the time.

The only think I can think of that wouldn't be CRAZY intrusive is to associate phone numbers with accounts and text access codes that they have to enter when they register. Then you could Ban Phone Numbers. Just don't accept google voice or similar kind of throw away numbers. But would be kind of a pain in the ass, and probably not worth the effort.

[tommydgun]

Nocturne: "Heyyyy moooooom can I borrowwww your phoooone?!?!?!"

/workedaround

Not really technically possible without making players identify themselves when they start new accounts or something. IP's change all the time.

The only think I can think of that wouldn't be CRAZY intrusive is to associate phone numbers with accounts and text access codes that they have to enter when they register. Then you could Ban Phone Numbers. Just don't accept google voice or similar kind of throw away numbers. But would be kind of a pain in the ass, and probably not worth the effort.

its sad that the community can do its duty in turning over RMTers and then they can just come back in 2 seconds and start RMTing all over. if you think Nocturne isnt selling the plat he is making from PLing you are mistaken i am sure...

this is why fungis went from costing 60kp to 90kp+ over the course of a month? pisses me off that people like this can ruin the fun for the rest of us.

[myriverse]

They should enable Froglok PC models and force every character they ever make to be frogs.

[Lagaidh]

Economy's been rough in my sector ever since the last population spike. I haven't been able to break the 12k saved barrier in a long time (it's a good thing I'm not spending). I'd wager some of the plat-price increase on key items has to do with raw demand.

For an item with multi-class and multi race use like the fungi, sure the price has gone up. So has the server population. For a class-specific item for a class with stable higher level numbers, like the paladin, we see the price dropping. Just ask my DW BP that depreciates by the second. (Okay, the click 300+ heal is still worth, to me, what I originally paid.)

[SirAlvarex]

2.5k a pull? What a ripoff!



While it's true that you can just get a new IP, the point is that these people shouldn't be allowed to keep playing if they've been "permanently" banned. Ie, if they admit to being who they are in game, they should be banned again, and if their guild hides who they are, the guild should be punished too. The only way to get around this would be to cheat and just assume a new identity, but then you wouldn't be able to get PLed back to 60 easily, so it's not that big of a harm. The biggest problem is when people get banned and then use their connections to get PLed again. This has been a huge issue on both servers and it would be great to see it addressed.

This. A community blacklist is probably our best option for "permanent bans". I wouldn't off rewards (it would start a witch hunt), so I agree that offering punishment if a guild "knew" about a blacklisted player is in their guild.

There really isn't any way I can think of otherwise.

IP Ban? Nope, those can be dynamic.

MAC address ban? Those can be spoofed even easier, and even then the information might not be in the headers that are being sent to the server.

Phone ban? Intrusive to players, and has an over-arcing "why am I giving my phone number to some random dude on the internet that is running an emulated server..." feel to it. I wouldn't doubt if some cheap services are out there where you could get a "floating number." But as a plus this would probably cut down on the account sales if there was a google authenticator requirement.

Email ban? This would be possible if you had to use an email that had been active for X amount of time (similar to the phone idea thrown out there). But then the RMT'ers/cheaters would just hoard emails.

[Lyra]

Need to punish both the buyer and the seller.

Buyers are a bunch of wimps that can't even play a 13 year old game without cheating. They would be easier to scare than the sellers.

Not sure how to catch buyers without P99 staff putting out fake adds and banning buyers. I doubt the easy way is legal. Maybe someone could give them free legal advise how to do this.

Another option targeted at sellers: We players donate to a fund specifically used for P99 staff to "buy" plat and then ban accounts associated with the plat transfer. This would only be effective if they can trace plat transfers. I don't know what they can see.

Word would spread. This would get easier to control.

[jkfranklin]

First of all I wasn't caught RMT'n. There is no evidence whatsoever that I ever RMT'd, only that I propositioned a couple people. Second of all, I know you're fucking retarded and all and for this reason a permanent IP ban would work on you but to anyone with a brain it would take a very short amount of time to hop on a VPN and problem solved. Third of all, if I really gave a fuck what some worthless pieces of shit like you thought about me, I would try to hide my identity better and nobody would even have ever had a clue who the fuck I am.

ban this dumb mother fucker pls.

[Lagaidh]

You know... compared to last year, there are things in the economy that are more affordable than ever.

I used Zanderr's services and got a Pegasus Feather Cloak for 4k. I never did get one of those effin' things in Live. A pittance of plat, my and my wife's attention and aid, and Zanderr had helped me get one in less than a few hours (under 3 if I recall).

That's an incredible value!

Some items will always be huge in price because of how they alter the game for the owner. Fungi tunics are in this realm. Actually, now that I think of it, there's a good reason the phrase e-peen was born... Really good gear in EQ is like having a big ol' dick in real life. The gear won't make you a better player, and a giant dick isn't going to make you a better lover, however, having the gear or the elephant dong will forgive a lot of mistakes of ignorance.

Me? The e-peen pixels I enjoy owning, and an item that simply reminds me of what I love in EQ is the Cloak of Flames.

I got one. I don't raid. I paid through the nose for it. Me and the wife's toon went back to ghetto threads for a while to raise the cash for it when the opportunity arose.

Now, if I can take even 20% of all the forum talk of RMT at face value, I can see how the practice can raise the price on hot items, sure, but when price spikes begin alongside of a population spike... well... supply and demand. They're fundamental tenants of an economy!

[ymw]

I voted yes to the permanent part. There's no way to completely and utterly block someone off and there are certainly better ways than an IP ban to try, but *something* a bit more permanent would be awesome for the people that truly deserve it.

I know there's concern about false positive, but I'd like to think that qualifying for one of the more extreme banning methods would also include a much, much more cut and dry offense/set of offenses.

[Exmo]

Nocturne: "Heyyyy moooooom can I borrowwww your phoooone?!?!?!"

/workedaround



Sure, also 40 bucks for a 1 month cheap ass pre-paid phone. There's work arounds for everything. Short of Emailing a Copy of your Driver's license to admins when you sign up there's not much that's going to be a complete solution. Especially because you're talking about people that gain a financial incentive to play, so they would be the ones willing to make a small investment for the ROI.

Another solution may be to dramatically lower the platinum caps per character/account, but this just makes the process more of a pain in the ass, then it does really prevent anything.

Or make a rule against selling PLing or other common methods of earning the cash. But then it will just be people who farm gear doing RMT's.

[Tiggles]

Keep deleting the plat and they will stop farming it to sell.

you pop a RMTers mule toons enough times he will lose more then he will make.

it just takes diligence the current staff doesn't have when it comes to RMT.

Uthgaard 2013.

[skipdog]

Permanent IP bans are not a solution, period. Many have made the reasons quite clear in this thread.

I think people are REALLY overstating the RMT problem on the server. People who think prices are going up everywhere because of RMT are not thinking the situation all the way through.

Honestly, RMT has very little impact on the economy. RMT isn't why Fungis are now 85k.

I don't know what a good solution is for permanent bannings. I just don't think it is possible on an emulated server. At least on live servers you can require the person to pay for the game with each banning, but that never even stopped them.

I just don't think the technology exists to permanently stop a person from creating an account and logging onto the server. The best practice is to probably simply delevel/strip all associated toons on banned accounts, as well as all mule accounts associated with them. At least force them to level up new characters and rebuild their wealth from scratch again.

[SirAlvarex]

Permanent IP bans are not a solution, period. Many have made the reasons quite clear in this thread.

I think people are REALLY overstating the RMT problem on the server. People who think prices are going up everywhere because of RMT are not thinking the situation all the way through.

Honestly, RMT has very little impact on the economy. RMT isn't why Fungis are now 85k.

I don't know what a good solution is for permanent bannings. I just don't think it is possible on an emulated server. At least on live servers you can require the person to pay for the game with each banning, but that never even stopped them.

I just don't think the technology exists to permanently stop a person from creating an account and logging onto the server. The best practice is to probably simply delevel/strip all associated toons on banned accounts, as well as all mule accounts associated with them. At least force them to level up new characters and rebuild their wealth from scratch again.

You make a good point. RMT isn't the reason stuff is more expensive (tons of "old" players that came back had tons of cash due to farming Seafurries when they would drop up to 5k an hour *while being uberly over camped*).

But RMT is the one thing that could shut the server down if Sony were to want to. Right now Sony's only weapon is burying the server owners in legal fees, as they aren't doing anything that is illegal. But if *someone* were to profit off the game via direct "pay for play" rewards, then that is more than enough leg to stand on to shut the server down.

And for what it's worth, Smed loves that this server exists. So I'd prefer it if some D-Bags didn't give him a reason to change his stance...

[Lyra]

I think people are REALLY overstating the RMT problem on the server.

I think a lot of buyers have convinced themselves buying plat doesn't hurt anything.

[OMGWTF420]

make account selling illegal

[pyrese]

Only problem I see would be the fluidity of IP addresses. Most people have dynamic IPs. I unplug my modem for 5 minutes, I get a new one assigned to me. Even ignoring that, a really determined person could do a bunch of things: get a new ISP, use a phone tether, connect at a public place, hide behind 7 proxies, etc.

Though I would totally get behind an effort that would permanently ban the types of offenders you list.

I've voted no for the above quoted reason and for a similar reason.

One of the local pizza parlors has a list on the wall next to their telephone with a list of 'do not answers'. The phone numbers on this list correspond to people who fail to pay or prank in some other manner. However, that list has been up there for ages. Surely the owners of some of those numbers have changed by now, but the ban still remains on the wall. I would hate to be the poor soul who happened to by all the terrible luck in the world run in to a similar situation here were bans by IP implemented.

[feanan]

Staff likes to delete the threads as fast as they can, but last year there were a lot of threads where people posted how much they had made off of RMTing here, with screenshots of paypal accounts, etc

All in all, I was quite surprised, it was a shit ton of money

[Rhambuk]

But RMT is the one thing that could shut the server down if Sony were to want to. Right now Sony's only weapon is burying the server owners in legal fees, as they aren't doing anything that is illegal. But if *someone* were to profit off the game via direct "pay for play" rewards, then that is more than enough leg to stand on to shut the server down.

And for what it's worth, Smed loves that this server exists. So I'd prefer it if some D-Bags didn't give him a reason to change his stance...

This is the real concern, the rmters dont care about the server obviously and as long as they can make money off of a free to play emu they wont stop. They don't understand or care that they are destroying a free to play game for about 1 thousand people, but who cares as long as they can make some easy cash...

[shooteneq1]

seems to me you just hit people where it hurts, the pocketbook. if they cant make money off of the game they wont bother. these plat sellers have hundreds of thousands or millions of plat, it would take some time but i would think they would be able to flag all accounts with over a certain threshold and then everytime that account gives say 25k or more to another toon it flags it for investigation. after awhile when you see an account with 3 million plat and it consistently is giving plat to multiple different characters on a daily basis its not hard to see whats going on. talk to all parties involved and see what they have to say, seller will obviously deny, but im sure if the buyers get told that theres an investigation going on and if they come clean they wont get banned but just get a suspension they will flip on the seller, then just delete all the sellers plat.

Would this take time, yes
would it completely get rid of rmt, no
would it make a dent and make a lot of regular players happy, yes

Also this nocturne guy who admits to propositioning rmt and is in your face about it, if he wants to sink into the shadows and play and not cause ruffles he obviously can, but it is really a slap in the face when this guy comes right out admitting what he does and the devs dont do anything about it, it sets a real bad example when you tell everyone rmt isnt tolerated and is done in back alleys but then a guy flaunts it on the forums and you do nothing about it.

[Hailto]

In other news, the death penalty not only deters everyone from committing heinous crimes, but it also never gets used on innocent parties by accident!

Voted no for this reason alone.

GMs occasionally make the wrong decision, i dont want to have the threat of being permanently IP banned because of a fuck up. Having your account banned is punishment enough.

[Szeth1]

Probably should curb the UNBANNING FROM RMT FLAGGED ACCOUNTS THEN EH!? LOOKING AT YOU SZETH

[skipdog]

I think a lot of buyers have convinced themselves buying plat doesn't hurt anything.

Don't get me wrong, I TOTALLY agree with you.

I totally am down with enforcing the total deletion of anybody associated with any sort of RMTing in any way.

I never attempted to make any points about the drawbacks of RMT to the server.

The primary point I wanted to make, was that RMT has absolutely nothing to do with rising prices in p1999's economy, and many people were implying that.

[Lyra]

RMT has absolutely nothing to do with rising prices in p1999's economy, and many people were implying that.

I disagree.

New players wouldn't be able to buy the gear because they wouldn't have the plat, removing a large portion of the demand.

I'm playing this game....on this server... a lot.

[Darkpretzel]

When I started, about a year and a half ago, fungis were over 100k. Then they started to go down to like 50 or 60k and everyone started freaking out that the server was dying.

[Clark]

Ezalor needs to get a life.

[Loftus]

The primary point I wanted to make, was that RMT has absolutely nothing to do with rising prices in p1999's economy, and many people were implying that.

To make a statement like this only shows how naive you are about the intricacies of any economy, including virtual ones like that on P1999. An imbalance, and it looks like a severe one at that, is introduced when you let real-world economy intrude on the P1999 economy. One can easily foresee the end state: a monopoly by those with enough spare real-world cash to buy all the virtual P1999 platinum. This would force a condition of "no RMT, no way to afford anything in the p1999 economy" - a trend we are starting to see.

If P1999 platinum had no real-world cash value, the motivation to farm platinum for the sole purpose of exchanging it for real-world cash would not exist. With this lack of motivation comes a lack of platinum-flooding.

There's alot of things people would do in a virtual world if the virtual success can be converted into real-world success that they would never otherwise consider.

[Destan]

make account selling illegal

This.

Never, in the history of MMOs, has buying accounts benefited the community as a whole. Stop being lazy, level up yourself.

[porigromus]

Make every single piece of gear no drop. :)

[dragonfists]

This.

Never, in the history of MMOs, has buying accounts benefited the community as a whole. Stop being lazy, level up yourself.

old school eq is a grind, but its fun leveling up toons too w/ groups good and bad.. and like above stated, makes for better class players

[tommydgun]

ill tell you why it also affects the economy... because people who are RMTing are the same people who are buying up all the high demand items and increasing their cost. by hoarding items being sold reasonably and putting them back up for extremely high plat cost they are causing inflation on items because normal people who dont spend all day in EC can only find the items they want for the inflated prices. next time that person tries to sell the item they overpaid for, they will also ask for more plat so they dont make a loss and then it just gets worse and worse.

if you dont believe me, look at what items sonaa is buying and selling and look how much sonaa (nocturne) is asking for the items. people are actually starting to think the price for an fbss is 12k, but not many people are actually buying them for 12k...

i really like the idea for plat caps on characters, no selling accounts, no selling PL, and no selling MQs. all of these things are people who are abusing the economy do to make money and a lot of them just to RMT.

just my opinion i suppose, substantiated by activities in game that i have seen. also if nocturne isnt banned based on this forum im going to be pissed.

[skipdog]

To make a statement like this only shows how naive you are about the intricacies of any economy, including virtual ones like that on P1999. An imbalance, and it looks like a severe one at that, is introduced when you let real-world economy intrude on the P1999 economy. One can easily foresee the end state: a monopoly by those with enough spare real-world cash to buy all the virtual P1999 platinum. This would force a condition of "no RMT, no way to afford anything in the p1999 economy" - a trend we are starting to see.

If P1999 platinum had no real-world cash value, the motivation to farm platinum for the sole purpose of exchanging it for real-world cash would not exist. With this lack of motivation comes a lack of platinum-flooding.

There's alot of things people would do in a virtual world if the virtual success can be converted into real-world success that they would never otherwise consider.

Listen, it sure CAN affect the economy like you are saying and it likely is in a small way, but people are greatly overstating it's effect. I have quite a lot of motivation for plat that has nothing to do with RMT and I think the number of people who farm plat for pure RMT purposes are way lower than you think and is maybe making up a very small percentage(5% or less is my best guess) of the plat/items being farmed. The monopoly situation you describe is simply not happening on a scale that makes a difference.

The real issue is a huge amount of 60s sitting at level cap in Kunark era for far too long with nothing to do but accumulate plat every hour they play. The price fluctuations are that, and honestly, it isn't that bad when YOUR items that you can farm sell for more. It's supply and demand and nobody has to buy a thing from Sonaa and Sonaa certainly isn't monopolizing the market.

I'll repeat this again: RMT is bad and we should be aggressively banning anyone who participates. Just trying to point out that some price increases are not due to RMT, it's due to the top-heavy server population.

[raitheon]

Why not have a debt. For every RTM plat found; the person must earn several times that amount to actually gain any funds on the character.

No money on the character / account = no money being transfered in game.

This obviously does nothing for power leveling.

[Gadwen]

Why not have a debt. For every RTM plat found; the person must earn several times that amount to actually gain any funds on the character.

No money on the character / account = no money being transfered in game.

This obviously does nothing for power leveling.

These kind of ideas won't work for the same reason that IP bans won't work. And anyway, that kind of setup is basically telling people its OK to RMT and cheat as long as they are willing to pay off their "debt" if they get caught.

[tommydgun]

i dont really care either way about IP ban but the player himself should be permabanned. in the case of nocturne blatantly admitting he is evelinn his current accounts should all be banned as well. just because he lost 400kp with the first ban doesnt mean his sentence is finished and now its cool that he has 500kp+ that he is probably selling all over again. i also like the idea of associated guild that whos who they are being temporary suspended for like a week. RMT pisses me off and i think a lot of people agree with the sentiment.

[SirAlvarex]

I reiterate that my only beef with RMT is that it can cause the shutdown of the server. And honestly, the only thing I can think of to rid of that problem is to hit the RMT'ers in the pocketbook. A crazy gamble could be to let Sony's lawyers take care of business. All it would take is 5-10 lawsuits for intellectual property infringement against RMT'ers to make the rest shake in their boots.

But that would open the door for Sony to take down the server in case the operators are doing something shady, which would really, really suck. I guess doing this would really just depend on how confident Rogean and Nilbog are that their operating expenses are fully legit.

Plus, any time a lawyer gets involved unexpected crap can happen.

I dunno, I guess maybe it's a horrible idea. But outside of hiring Jay and Silent Bob to go around and nutpunch all the RMT'ers I can't think of a permanent solution.

[Lyra]

The IRS could make them stop.

When the IRS determines someone has unreported earnings, they estimate..... and girlfriend, they estimate high.

It requires a tax attorney to resolve it. Ever hire a tax attorney? $$$$

[Bidoof]

you fucking psychopath.

http://www.lifechoice.net.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/pot-kettle.jpg

[Lyra]

If you're seriously getting pissed over RMT in a 15 year old video game.

So when we play Monopoly you have no problem with me taking a handful of 500 bills from the bank on the sly?

Cause you just like to roll the dice for 4 hours?

This is a game. Even though some people treat it differently, this is still a game.

With rules, just like all games.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

If we were banning for RMT we'd have to shut this shit down. Rogean's got dirt all over, but, I suppose we all have our price.

edit: for people complaining about platinum--just duo the fungi king for a few days and you'll have enough plat to gear out your character beyond certain raid items. Shm/anythingreally, clr(bp)/warORskORmonkorEnc..., Lots of good combos, really. And it can be 3 manned with about anyone, though the items must be split a bit more.

[tommydgun]

Why is it when idiots like yourself talk shit, they don't have a fucking clue what they are talking about? The prices of my items are ALWAYS legit, my price on fbss is 10.5k lol. You will never see me selling an item for above the market average generally. I think I'd have an easier time sticking my dick in Carmen Electra than getting 12k for an fbss or 90k for a fungi or whatever these retarded prices people are asking for.

If you're seriously getting pissed over RMT in a 15 year old video game, you need to have your fucking head checked. If you just play EQ to have fun in the first place, what the fuck do you care what the prices of anything are or what anyone else is wearing? Sounds to me like this has more to do with jealousy and greed than anything else.

Also, do you think I'd make it known who I was if the GM's didn't specifically say that I was allowed to roll up a new account and start over? So sorry to break it to you but I'm not getting banned as I'm not doing anything wrong so you can start going ahead and getting mad over pixels in a video game you fucking psychopath.

you are so full of shit nocturne. you were just selling fbss last night for 12k. also yeah im pissed because its RMT people like you that make it much more difficult for me to obtain upgrades in a game that i thoroughly enjoy, regardless of age of game. dont try to justify your bullshit with posts like this.

im a psychopath? sure. thats what i am... but if you really want to clear things up here, stop lying to the player base saying you werent actually RMTing and you werent actually caught RMTing because I AM THE ONE WHO GOT YOU BANNED DICKHEAD. and i have the posts to prove it, but i dont need to humor you so ill keep em. glad you got banned the first time, cant wait until you slip up again to get banned the second time. cant say it was difficult getting enough evidence to get you banned considering you are a complete moron and you give the evidence away for free. g'luck with your endeavors now that everyone knows how much of a piece of shit you are.

im done with this thread.

[Kevynne]

Example: Nocturne/Sonaa/Evelinn. He got caught red handed RMTing and he simply just made a new account and now sells Bard power-levels for 2.5k a pull. He'll be more careful to not get caught RMTing this time, and meanwhile he knows that if he does he knows he can still just do the same thing all over.

richgirl=N/S/E?

[Kevynne]

do not agree.
its a 14 yr old game. and it's a eprsons decision fi they wanted to rmt.
rmt was also a classic feature

[HeallunRumblebelly]

do not agree.
its a 14 yr old game. and it's a eprsons decision fi they wanted to rmt.
rmt was also a classic feature

Yeah, but epic MQs being what they are it also gates content so badly that many classes have 0 chance of completing their epic in kunark era unless they wanna pay the door men. Another inny staff MQ, another rakusha cloak going to someone's 5th alt they'll park at faydedar, lulz. Need luclin in this bitch--AAs and no drop gear.

[Kevynne]

Yeah, but epic MQs being what they are it also gates content so badly that many classes have 0 chance of completing their epic in kunark era unless they wanna pay the door men. Another inny staff MQ, another rakusha cloak going to someone's 5th alt they'll park at faydedar, lulz. Need luclin in this bitch--AAs and no drop gear.

fuck luclin
or like the rest of the server they join tmo/fe/bda, get gear/epic and leave

[Gadwen]

you are so full of shit nocturne. you were just selling fbss last night for 12k.

Verified. Saw him selling FBSS all day yesterday for 12k.

[tommydgun]

you obviously have no idea who i am because i havent sent you a tell since i got you banned and i dont have any alts. you are just such an idiot that you told everyone you RMTed so easily i could be anyone...

i love people who insult IQ it really makes me lol

anyways, at least everyone knows the truth about you now, hopefully it made an impact even if you continue to be allowed to play the game.

[Aviann]

No I wasn't lol. You are seriously delusional as fuck. You need help, please get it.



I guess that makes two delusional as fuck people. The only person I've seen selling an fbss for 12k is Hungfoo. I sell them for 10.5k. Get a fucking clue plz.



Why do you have to afford any upgrades when you can simply go farm them yourself? Which if you enjoy the game so much as you claim, should be doing anyways? You spend so much time in EC and claim you like to enjoy the game the way it's meant to be played. Go play the game and farm items and affording upgrades shouldn't be a problem because you're going to get more for those "RMT inflated" items anyways.

So in the end you're not actually being held back at all. You just have shit for brains and think this is true but in reality it is not. I know your IQ is only double digits but seriously you're just making shit up. Btw it's cute how you're still rolling random chars and trying to get me to proposition RMT to you lol, god damn you're a fucking pathetic waste of life.

Didn't really want to quote you at all because nobody wants to see your shit posts anymore, but I did it anyways so I can also verify you were trying to sell an FBSS for 12k.

Stop trying to act cool by lying you moran and go back to selling your overpriced silk ass-scarves.

[Atraleto]

The only way to perma ban someone is the ban the entire county they are in. This can have unforscene consequences though...

[OMGWTF420]

First of all I wasn't caught RMT'n. There is no evidence whatsoever that I ever RMT'd, only that I propositioned a couple people.

admits to propositioning people for rmt, yet we are supposed to believe he has never done it, the intent was there i say ban this fucker for good measure

[Kagatob]

I don't need to read the thread to know that it would be a bad/useless idea. There have been workarounds for IP bans for as long as IP bans have existed. You have to be a bonified hillibilly retard to not know how to get around one in the year 2013.

[webrunner5]

You have to be a bonified hillibilly retard to not know how to get around one in the year 2013.

LMFAO

[Ezalor]

To the pedants, obviously there's work arounds to IP bans. The general idea here was that some kind of permanent ban option should be addressed.

[Droog007]

A boner-fried hilly-billy?

[Anesthia]

20 RMTers disagree.

Look, if it's still around X years later, "they're gonna do it anyways so why bother" doesn't even matter.

[Infectious]

Gms should have a login screen. You wana play project 1999? Pm a gm (rogean or nilbog) and they add your ip so you can log in. If your banned once your screwed. If someone gets a new ip gms can check where its coming from and not enter it. Would be good this way because people who are banned, will get all their accounts banned.

[Gadwen]

Gms should have a login screen. You wana play project 1999? Pm a gm (rogean or nilbog) and they add your ip so you can log in. If your banned once your screwed. If someone gets a new ip gms can check where its coming from and not enter it. Would be good this way because people who are banned, will get all their accounts banned.

What about people who have dynamic IPs that change every time they reboot their modem? Gotta wait a month to get approval everyone time the power trips in the house? If it could be done on a daily basis, it might work, but it just wouldn't be done that often and it would just amount to a huge turn off for potential new players and old players alike.

[Kevynne]

lol 20 rmters? lets see soem proof

[Szeth1]

Seriously? You don't think 20 people have RMT'd on this server? Do you think each buyer of the accounts sold in the huge RMT wave were all the same person? If not that makes 2 confirmed RMT'ers per transaction.

Which reminds me. Szeth confirmed RMT banned, unbanned for no reason due to some sort of GM shenanigans going on.

[Kagatob]

There have been a lot more than 20 RMTers in the history of this server.

20 customers in 3 years? If business was less than one sale a month Platlord would have moved on, end of story.

[Tenlaar]

<---- Also seen Sonaa auctioning FBSS for 12k.

[chief]

why the hell are all the RMT banned accounts back, unban.

[Swish]

Don't ban, just strip and delevel all characters of all plat/items.

Also dynamic IPs are easy enough to spot.

RNG example: 82.55.68.1 and 82.55.68.12 ... holy shit, I just found 2 devices on the same IP.

[myriverse]

Don't ban, just strip and delevel all characters of all plat/items.

Also dynamic IPs are easy enough to spot.

RNG example: 82.55.68.1 and 82.55.68.12 ... holy shit, I just found 2 devices on the same IP.
There's no guarantee those are the same person, machine, or location.

[Swish]

There's no guarantee those are the same person, machine, or location.

But if you're spotting 2 of those connecting to P99, you can begin to solve a 9-piece jigsaw :p

[SupaflyIRL]

There's no guarantee those are the same person, machine, or location.

actually they are both located in Olgiate Olona, Lombardia, Italy

ip addresses are geographic

[Bidoof]

RNG example: 82.55.68.1 and 82.55.68.12 ... holy shit, I just found 2 devices on the same IP.

That would be pretty damning, if/when people get IPs like that. I run a php test server from my house that's always connected, so I check the IP pretty regularly to make sure my DNS is updating correctly. In ~2 years I've never received two IPs that were so close. I almost always get completely new values in all the ranges.

Not saying some ISPs don't have a very small range, or specifically give close IPs to people when they update their IPs. But if you're with an AT&T or a Time Warner in the states, they have a huge trunk of IPs to give out in each region, and they don't always care which you get.

[SirAlvarex]

actually they are both located in Olgiate Olona, Lombardia, Italy

ip addresses are geographic

It's the location block your ISP bought.

According to "location aware adds" I live in Cedar Rapids. I don't live in Cedar Rapids.

But that's pedantic. IP address are not the answer anyhow.

[MaximiusM]

PKI. You have to register on the forums to generate your key and the key must be installed in order to access P99. It would be a bitch to implement if it's even possible but it would cut down on peoples ability to use the same computer to login from multiple locations (proxies, vpns, etc) and it would allow you to associate accounts to specific systems.

Again though, this wouldn't be a silver bullet. Any solution has to be both carrot and stick.

Think about the drug war, simply outlawing something only drives consumers to purchase illegally at a higher price. Increasing enforcement simply drives up cost of policing and cost of product while the supply is decreased. This only makes more money for the plat sellers (or drug dealers, prostitution, etc, etc) because their margin increases by leaps and bounds.

There has to be a blend of incentives, disincentives, clearly defined and open processes for enforcement for any kind of rule to be effective, let alone RMT.

[Szeth1]

Characters with real life money value (having been previously sold/bought) are being traded and running around in Norrath.(Szeth)

This is clearly a breach of the RMT code.

[sulpher01]

Characters with real life money value (having been previously sold/bought) are being traded and running around in Norrath.(Szeth)

This is clearly a breach of the RMT code.

Well since your the one that sold it, shouldnt you and any chars you've made since then get a ban? Sounds fair to me.

[Szeth1]

That also sounds fair to me. Ban my IP from the server as well! However that does not change the fact that Szeth as a character holds RMT value and should be banned for previous indiscretions.

[Gadwen]

That also sounds fair to me. Ban my IP from the server as well! However that does not change the fact that Szeth as a character holds RMT value and should be banned for previous indiscretions.

Sounds like someone regrets selling their character.

[odiecat99]

newsflash : platlord has been around since server launched. Coincidence? I thinks not mate.