To play or not to play

[bluejam]

Hello everyone,

I've just recently read about P99 on the Emu forums. I played for a short period of time during the earlier Emu days so I'm familiar with the whole concept.
Kudos to the team and their efforts!

On "Live" I was active from '99 (a few months before Kunark release) to around 2002, some weeks into the PoP expansion.

This project would be a nice opportunity to experience the glorious old days once again which does bring up several problems though.

I never was a hardcore raider - maybe because I am from Europe, but was a member of an US based guild since the first day which meant raids usually at night for me -, nor did I ever play excessivley.
First main character was a ranger who I leveled up to 52 including first epic, got annoyed with this toon (crappy defense, pointless bow etc), so I created a new one in 2000 after a short break. I fell in love with my iksar monk!
Never looked back, got to level 65 around PoP, raided, quested, "AA'd" aso.
So in 2002 I quit because I wasn't far from college and EQ became more time consuming in my opinion (flags *argh*, the necessity to grind AAs, uber time consuming dungeon key quests - Vex Thal key was just ridiculous-). Looking back now I should've just switched servers and joined a casual european guild.

Ok, lets cut to the chase. I was wondering if there's a place for people like me on this server. 1 1/2 years left until I'll graduate college, after that it's "job-time". I won't be able to play every day, especially not for several hours in a row. 3-4 months before "the end" I probably won't find any time to spare beside the whole studying drama. I don't know exactly, but time will not be a surplus once I have a job.
Futhermore I do have more than enough time until the Kunark release to level up an avatar. Of course I chose a monk again because a) I have no *real* idea how to play another class and b) I don't really want to play another class. :)
Sadly I HAD to start a human monk - although I very very very much dislike them. I said to myself "come on, get over it, this way you can play NOW", but I keep getting reminded how awesome an iksar monk is. Well, so I thought. I've just read about the XP penality (I forgot all about it) and it sounds HORRIBLE! Iksar -20% and monk -20%! For someone that won't have much time to play after this summer, it sure is an argument against waiting in my opinion.

The quintessence of my dilemma is: should I wait for Kunark and live happily ever after or should I continue playing that hidious human?
AND even more important: should I "waste" my time on this game once more or forget all about it and look for another time killer (not game-wise I mean)?

No fees is great, so I'm not "forced to play" for my buck, but are there other casual players out there for me to group and eventually raid with..?
Sadly I have no real life friends who play MMORPG. Otherwise I could have at least one steady group to hang out with.
edit2: The thing is, there are already so many level 50 characters waiting for new hunting grounds while I'm still sitting here thinking about playing.
I wouldn't want to chase raiding guilds (which is what I want to do in the end: raiding), always being one or more steps behind, because I don't have equal time to grind levels / gear etc.

Thank you for reading in case you made it through. ;)

edit: PS: I forgot to mention that I find the noob leveling very tedious - granted it has been more than 8 years, but I never had to experience the hardcore way because a friend of mine helped me out with some basic equipment, nothing too fancy, but it did help. Of course it was even easier with my monk since I had him twinked somewhat by my first main char.

[muninn186]

If you had time to write all that, you have time to play.

[Toony]

are there another casual players out there for me to group and eventually guild with..?


Yes.

Glad I could help.

[JaVeDK]

Play for the fun of it and if you can handle it. If you're looking for some nostalgic entertainment on dull evenings then I doubt you'll be more or less pleased/dissapointed with the game whether you start now or after Kunark is released. /shrug

[Stickyfingers]

Your name is from One Piece?

[Uaellaen]

http://moestaverne.com/p1999wiki/index.php/Europa <== european casual guild

[Striiker]

First of all, I would suggest that you do indeed play. It's a great environment and if yo loved how EQ was back in the "Classic" era, then you'll love this server. Granted there are some minor differences and deviations from the "true classic" servers but I must say that I rarely notice them and am enjoying everything all over again.
I would suggest switching from your human monk to play some other class which you never had played. This way, when Kunark is released, you can start a lvl 1 Iksar monk and feel at peace and not have to go through the newbie levels for the same class once again. You may wish to consider a class which allows soloing such as Necros. (something which I did). This will allow you to play when you feel you can't find a group. Try something different for now, you may wind up loving it or at least returning to it now and then.
I would not worry so much about the people who maxed their level and are in a holding pattern for Kunark. You'll get there in good time. Most importantly, have fun while you level up. You expressed concerns about the fact that you can't devote a significant amount of time to the game. I can't either (I have a job, kids, etc.) so I spend what time I can in the game. It's taking longer to level up but I am having fun when I am on. I have an enchanter as my main and started a necromancer so I could solo when I know I can't be on too long. I also made a Shadowknight (in order to try something different from my live days) and a cleric (so I can group with my wife when she's on with her Paladin). On live I pushed hard to level up and missed a lot of the fun places at low / mid level to group and I am not making that mistake again. Find a "family guild" and have fun!
If you feel though that the drive to level is too great to resist and that you'll be constantly frustrated because you can't devote large blocks of time to the game, then this is perhaps not the place to spend your leisure hours. Remember, this IS Everquest and it can be quite addictive.
I hope to see you in game!

[Paxton]

If you had time to write all that, you have time to play.

As a new player myself, that's probably not the best first impression to make..just sayin'.

[JaVeDK]

As a new player myself, that's probably not the best first impression to make..just sayin'.

Don’t be dissuaded or turn off from the server by the forum tone / crowd. I'm not saying the community is an ideal group of mature care bears, but it's far better than the impression you would get from visiting these boards.

[guineapig]

I can vouch for Europa.
For what it's worth, every time I come across a member in game it has been a pleasant encounter.

[muninn186]

As a new player myself, that's probably not the best first impression to make..just sayin'.

haha, lighten up. The forums are definitely not a good indication of a game. But I've certainly seen worse forum populations.

Edit: Most people in the game are friendly and will help people out. There are going to be your trolls and bad apples, but overall it's a good crowd. Now if I could only log into the game.

[Dantes]

Play. Why not?

I only have time to play once a week but I've had a blast. At most I only have up to 4 hours when I log in for my weekly session. It helps to pick a class that is absolutely vital to a group because you'll spend less time LFG and more time in a group.

[Loke]

Wait to make an Iksar - you don't deserve the awesomeness which is the life of a human monk. Seriously, all these min/maxers who are all over iksar's dicks when it comes to monks fail to realize that human monks have character and are simply just way cooler. Human monks from qeynos (silent fist clan represent) are seriously like the defnition of awesomeness when it comes to EQ.

If you're going to sit here and bash on human monks, don't make one. Seriously, if you make a human monk after this post I'm going to hunt you down in game and grief you until you quit playing that character. No one trash talks human monks and then gets away with creating one on my watch. Normally I just joke around and make empty threats - but in this instance my threats are whatever the opposite of empty is... full? That doesn't make sense, but seriously don't make a human monk.

[Paxton]

Seriously, all these min/maxers who are all over iksar's dicks when it comes to monks fail to realize that human monks have character and are simply just way cooler. Human monks from qeynos (silent fist clan represent) are seriously like the defnition of awesomeness when it comes to EQ.


I like you. Not because you're right (and you are), but because you're totally frickin right. With style.

Human monks FTW.

[bluejam]

@muninn186: Why bother to reply when you have nothing of substance to say? (or wait until page 2 with something better)

@Toony: Straight to the point. Thanks!

@JaVeDK: Of course, fun is my top priority. I do want to put time into the game, but I certainly can't invest as much as I could during school. Guess I'll have to try it out.

@Stickyfingers: I don't know what you are refering to.

@Uaellaen: Thank you. I will keep this one in mind as I make up my mind. ;)

@Striiker: I /salute your elaboration. I toyed with the idea to create another class and make some money until Kunark arrives. Hmm, I guess I'll give it another shot. I've never played a pure caster before. Intriguing... how about a wiz/mag soloing capabilities in the classic world? Although I've never even thought about playing a necro. So many choices.

@guineapig: Good to know!

@Dantes: Good point.

@Loke: Well, I've already created one and leveled him to DING 6. ;)

[Loke]

@Loke: Well, I've already created one and leveled him to DING 6. ;)

I'll be looking for you in game then.

I would like to apologize in advance to the GMs and Guides. The blatant racism of the OP against humans cannot stand. This is a civil rights type thing and any rule breaking I do will be justified civil disobedience. I'm gonna be like the mother fuckin' Rosa Parks of P1999.

[tj218]

I think a lot of us on the server are more casual players reminiscing about glory days.

Yeah there are powergamers looking for the next best raid, but every group I have been in someone has mentioned about how they remembered playing this years ago...have jobs..families now...etc. so they can't devote as much time to it.

I see a lot more friendly + casual players on this than I ever did on live.

[Daywolf]

This project would be a nice opportunity to experience the glorious old days once again which does bring up several problems though. I don't think playing for nostalgia is enough. You either like the hard and demanding play style or play the new generation of dumb games.


First main character was a ranger who I leveled up to 52 including first epic, got annoyed with this toon (crappy defense, pointless bow etc) Ranger rocked! You either build for melee or for bow, not in between. And once AA came around, the ranger did very well with bows imo. It does not matter what is easy or hard to play, but what you get out of it. If you play for challenge, than ranger was a good challenge in the early days.




So in 2002 I quit because I wasn't far from college and EQ became more time consuming in my opinion (flags *argh*, the necessity to grind AAs, uber time consuming dungeon key quests - Vex Thal key was just ridiculous-). Looking back now I should've just switched servers and joined a casual european guild.

Ok, lets cut to the chase. I was wondering if there's a place for people like me on this server. 1 1/2 years left until I'll graduate college, after that it's "job-time". I won't be able to play every day, especially not for several hours in a row. 3-4 months before "the end" I probably won't find any time to spare beside the whole studying drama. I don't know exactly, but time will not be a surplus once I have a job. If you get a job. But in any case, everyone makes time for something to do, like a hobby. If playing mmo's is not your time consuming hobby, well find something that is. When you actually join the workforce, idealism fades and reality sets in, where as you more so make time for whatever your hobby is, be it golf, rugby, TV or video games . Life does not end because you get a job, or go to school or have a family; all the diversions are a necessity.


Futhermore I do have more than enough time until the Kunark release to level up an avatar. Of course I chose a monk again because a) I have no *real* idea how to play another class and b) I don't really want to play another class. :) Sadly I HAD to start a human monk - although I very very very much dislike them. Than don't. Don't do something you don't want to do. That simple. That's no diversion, that's doing something simply for nostalgia. Even with school or work, do what you want to do, not what you don't.



No fees is great That is no reason to play. There is a fee, just someone else is paying it for you. At some point it's a good idea to donate, if at least enough to cover your usage.

edit: PS: I forgot to mention that I find the noob leveling very tedious - granted it has been more than 8 years, but I never had to experience the hardcore way because a friend of mine helped me out with some basic equipment, nothing too fancy, but it did help. Of course it was even easier with my monk since I had him twinked somewhat by my first main char.99% of new games are dumbed down, the difficulty removed, and your hand held from day one to cap. Maybe that is what you rather want if anything. It comes down to accomplishment vs. entitlement, and you probably need to figure which is your overall life outlook.

[bluejam]

@Daywolf:
I wouldn't just want to play for nostalgia.
Well yeah, rangers became cool with the AA era, but I didn't want to divide up my time to play two characters.

I WILL get a job. I'm studying medicine and Germany is in dear need of doctors and will be in the future.
I do have other hobbies, but have enough time to squeeze in something else.. the question is: will this be EQClassic? ;)

Good advice regarding the whole monk dilemma.
True @ fees.

It's not about the difficulty of leveling, but the time consuming manner. I do enjoy challenging games, don't get me wrong, but time is of the essence. I'm not sure if I should spend it here or somewhere else, but I realize now that noone can actually answer this, but me. edit: I do not want to play another MMORPG.

Nevertheless, I got some good feedback for now. Thanks!

[Uaellaen]

I'm studying medicine and Germany is in dear need of doctors

Die dann aber schlecht bezahlt werden :p

[bluejam]

Die dann aber schlecht bezahlt werden :p

I know, but it's too late to study something different. :)
Besides I don't want to do anything else and the paycheck isn't THAT bad. The hours are. It somewhat depends on the specialization too.

I've just created a wood elf druid btw. I think I will enjoy the group support aspect while being able to solo as well, not to mention the ability to teleport.
I was really fond of buffing newbie players for free with my 52 ranger back on Live. Should be even cooler with an utility class.
Let's see how this turns out. See you all in Norrath!

[Striiker]

@Striiker: I /salute your elaboration. I toyed with the idea to create another class and make some money until Kunark arrives. Hmm, I guess I'll give it another shot. I've never played a pure caster before. Intriguing... how about a wiz/mag soloing capabilities in the classic world? Although I've never even thought about playing a necro. So many choices.


While I see that you opted to play a Druid, I did want to answer your question regarding Wizards / Magician soloing capabilities.. I can't speak for Mages from personal play experience as I never played on however I have heard that they are great for soloing and are second only to Necro's.
I did ply a wizard on live in the classic days. It was my second character and my first serious play character. I ran him up to 50. Soloing is doable however it takes a while due to the massive mana pool which wizards get. The only way I could effectively solo (and I guess this negates the true soloing aspect) was to get clarity and SOW. I would up getting Jboots from Drelzna (before they moved them to a quested item) so I was left just looking for clarity. With our teleport capabilities, it was easy to find an enchanter and port to that person and grab clarity for a donation. I personally wouldn't recommend a wizard for prolonged soloing. Necromancers, Magicians and Druids do well.
Good luck! I hope to see you in game some day!

[Daywolf]

@Daywolf:
I wouldn't just want to play for nostalgia.
Well yeah, rangers became cool with the AA era, but I didn't want to divide up my time to play two characters.

I WILL get a job. I'm studying medicine and Germany is in dear need of doctors and will be in the future.
I do have other hobbies, but have enough time to squeeze in something else.. the question is: will this be EQClassic? ;)

Good advice regarding the whole monk dilemma.
True @ fees.

It's not about the difficulty of leveling, but the time consuming manner. I do enjoy challenging games, don't get me wrong, but time is of the essence. I'm not sure if I should spend it here or somewhere else, but I realize now that noone can actually answer this, but me. edit: I do not want to play another MMORPG.

Nevertheless, I got some good feedback for now. Thanks!

Yeah, that can eat up a lot of your time. We started a guild in UO some years ago, and after a year the leader decided to step down. So we elected this guy that was a medical doctor hah, and a co-leader (two in charge). I guess he was not into golf lol So spent his free time playing mmo's instead.

I never really gave any attention to time consumption, I mean other than raids that can be time consuming. Be it a game like this or another that is "casual", people still spend as much time playing for the most part.

It's just the lure of faster rewards and quicker progression for casual games, where as something like classic EQ that comes much slower which is irritating for some people. But this is a long-term game, not something to put away in a few months. A lot of the casual mmo's suffer, because after a few months there is nothing left to do but maybe wait for the next expansion, so they look for other games to fill their time.

So as far as for finding people that play casual or less time dedicated, that is pretty normal I think. I mean just like in casual games, the power-gamers (as the game makes them all to be) hit the cap and fade away, while the long-term players keep going along for years, week after week. But here you have mostly people that played EQ on live for years, not really hopping from one game to the next, and specifically here in the emu's for a play-style that can't be found anyplace else any longer. So yeah, plenty of people here that are not power-gamers.

[bluejam]

@Striiker: Interesting aspects, indeed. But I think I prefer the druid class. It does take more of a support role which I find quite endearing.

My druids name is Dexs and I'm currently slaying bats and wasps below Kelethin. Sure takes me back to my ranger newbie days.

@Daywolf: Funny stuff about that doc. :D
You mention some valid arguments about time consumption/distribution.
Very well. I will play my druid from time to time and take it from there.

edit: About casual players or players in general: Greater Faydark is kewl! There were 20+ users online a few minutes ago, people auctioning stuff, looking for groups over /ooc, others begging for binds. It..is..awesome! :)


On a different matter: after 1,5 weeks of struggle I got access to my "Live" account, registered a 30-day game card and logged back in after patching like FOREVER. Good lord the game has changed! O_O
I dare to say for the worse, but I've only walked my toons to PoK, seeing avatars running around with character names that would have never been approved back then. I thought about heading over to a hot zone in the Buried Sea addon, but I had no clue how to get there and what I would have to expect on my way (danger wise). So I just went to Velks instead, hehe. (<3 Velious)
There I met a very friendly alt necro with his merc who walked back with me to PoK and gave me some money and a couple of items. This was a pleasant suprise. Instantly reminded me of the EQClassic days where people usually were very helpful.

Probably won't touch the account again...

[Daywolf]

@Daywolf: Funny stuff about that doc. :D
You mention some valid arguments about time consumption/distribution.
Very well. I will play my druid from time to time and take it from there.

edit: About casual players or players in general: Greater Faydark is kewl! There were 20+ users online a few minutes ago, people auctioning stuff, looking for groups over /ooc, others begging for binds. It..is..awesome! :)

Yup, Fay has a lot of people in usually, my favorite starting area. Cant beat CB and Unrest :D Then I usually go to everfrost, good for Drui's. Then from there, well hopefully not far off until we have access, KC.

[stormlord]

Yeah, that can eat up a lot of your time. We started a guild in UO some years ago, and after a year the leader decided to step down. So we elected this guy that was a medical doctor hah, and a co-leader (two in charge). I guess he was not into golf lol So spent his free time playing mmo's instead.

I never really gave any attention to time consumption, I mean other than raids that can be time consuming. Be it a game like this or another that is "casual", people still spend as much time playing for the most part.

It's just the lure of faster rewards and quicker progression for casual games, where as something like classic EQ that comes much slower which is irritating for some people. But this is a long-term game, not something to put away in a few months. A lot of the casual mmo's suffer, because after a few months there is nothing left to do but maybe wait for the next expansion, so they look for other games to fill their time.

So as far as for finding people that play casual or less time dedicated, that is pretty normal I think. I mean just like in casual games, the power-gamers (as the game makes them all to be) hit the cap and fade away, while the long-term players keep going along for years, week after week. But here you have mostly people that played EQ on live for years, not really hopping from one game to the next, and specifically here in the emu's for a play-style that can't be found anyplace else any longer. So yeah, plenty of people here that are not power-gamers.

(bolded text) Not true for people who play less than 10 hours per week. For them it will take a full expansion cycle to progress. Someone who can play 30 hours per week will probably get it done in a 3rd of the time or more, but that's because the game was not made for them. Games that're made for people who play less than 10 hours per week will work on similar time scales. Just because you play greater than 15 hours per week does not mean expansion cycles will be longer. For example, if the game has 70 levels, and player A has 10 hours per week to invest and player B has 20 hours per week, a game that caters to player B will probably either have a slower level gain or more difficult content. BUT they will both have 6 month expansion cycles (or thereabout).

Now, time to progress is different from difficulty of content, but not always. For instance, if content is more difficult, that will sometimes mean you have to spend more time learning it. Just like a skill. Sometimes it's just memorizing. A hardcore game is inclined to have more details: more skills, bigger maps, more stats and more mobs. And all of it has to be memorized which means you need to invest more time. Difficulty does not always mean more time. Sometimes content can be standardized so you don't have to learn it everytime you try something new. The phrase, "If you've played one rpg, you've played them all," explains it succinctly. But it will make you think harder. And sometimes it's just plain old IQ. In other words, there's a pattern in the content that you must solve, kind of like a puzzle. So time is not always proportional to difficulty, but it can be.

It's hard to argue, though, that hardcore games shouldn't require more time. Why shouldn't they? The more detail that you add to them, the more time players need to invest. That's just a given, unless they standardize to the point that the game is no longer original, and thusly, no longer enjoyable by a veteran. And the more details there're, the longer it takes you to form an effective strategy. Sometimes there're so may details that it's impossible to respond timely, and that's when a player quits out of frustration. I think I've seen raids like that in eq, but most of the time people quit because of being burned out by the game.

I read this link and mostly agreed:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3297538#3297538

I like to play a game that doesn't attempt to prevent me from failing or making mistakes - game breaking mistakes are the exception. I like to do most things on my own. Just because it takes me 5x longer to level does not matter to me. In fact, I like to level slower because I want to "take in" the environment and the people I meet. It's harder to enjoy it if I am being pushed along by friends or forced by the game to move forward.

Most of the single players games I like are non-linear. They let you do what you want to do.

Games like: Daggerfall (love this one), Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 1/2/3, Frontier: Elite II, etc. The goal of these games is dependent on you. They all have a central plot, but you're free to make your own.

I like to play at the hardest difficulty, or near it, from the beginning, too. Just me.

The question everyone should be asking is not whether hardcore games are legitimately difficult or not time consuming just to be time consuming, but instead whether people should be spending so much time playing a game??? I mean, if it was as good as the matrix movies, how would that be any better? The best example I can think of is WOW. Ok, so there's less downtime, but how is that better? Teenagers play WOW just as much as teenagers played everquest. People still get addicted. So the situation is still the same. How is it better? If anything, it's worse because now we have more adults playing these games and getting stuck on them.

Have a look:
http://www.wowdetox.com/

And:
http://www.wired.com/gaming/virtualworlds/commentary/games/2008/07/gamesfrontiers_0728?currentPage=all
When I rolled my new Paladin, I had to spend the next eight hours planted at my desk, repetitively clicking through the same tasks as if I were an industrial robot making car parts on the Chrysler line. I slaughtered wolves, bears, a few more wolves, some creepy little Kobold humanoids, then -- hey -- some more wolves. I rooted around in their corpses for random junk. (Woo! A candlestick!) Then I did it again. And again. And again. Until 3 a.m., actually.

This is of the most-prodigious mysteries of the gamer soul. Theoretically, we love multiplayer games because they offer a dramatic alternative to our shades-of-beige meatspace lives. They let us cast off our mundane existence and become a colorful, empowered hero. And what do we do with this second life?

We behave like obedient workers in a Soviet collective outside Stalingrad, circa 1971. Comrade, your job is to collect potatoes. For seven years. We pay $20 a month for this privilege.
At some point, people need to get a message similar to this one:
http://www.stevepavlina.com/blog/2006/12/life-the-ultimate-game/

What game is better than the game of life? They're just pathetic attempts at mirroring its glory.

We may never shake this flea off our backs. I think the best compromise is a matrix mmo. One that tries to mirror the exact conditions of the real world. The same countries, relationships, history, geography, etc. So that, at least, when people play it, they will learn about real world things. I mean, if we can't stop people from playing games, then lets make them play something that remotely resembles reality.

What would you be in an MMO that's a mirror image of earth, circa 2010?