The better tank, War / SK / Pally?

[VincentVolaju]

What is the better tank class in EQ? I would have assumed warrior, but I have heard that there really not that great because they dont have any aggro skills, that SKs and Pallys are much better at tanking, and can hold aggro 100x better. How true is all that?

Which class is the better tank, and which class is the easiest to tank with?

[HeallunRumblebelly]

What is the better tank class in EQ? I would have assumed warrior, but I have heard that there really not that great because they dont have any aggro skills, that SKs and Pallys are much better at tanking, and can hold aggro 100x better. How true is all that?

Which class is the better tank, and which class is the easiest to tank with?

What a horribly loaded question, prepare for a fight :P SKs are the easiest to hold aggro with, they are quite useful for picking--grabbing mobs off a kiter. This is rather situational. They're also useful for multi mob pulls that aren't mezzable and enough charmers aren't avail in a raid situation. Paladins have no real niche outside of being one of the classes who can cast blind and not having much else to do with their time / mana...so they' blind :P Warriors hold best sustained threat and tbh with P1999 proc-rates its actually rather bursty once you have 2x ssoy or better (i've heard arguments on both sides for bloodfire, but regardless, the threat is high enough in either combination).

In expansions to come: Kunark will see the rise of pre-nerf COS and death peace, making SKs just as good if not better pullers than monks--but monks have death grips on their pulling positions :P. Disciplines heavily favor warriors with /disc defensive making them the major player for raid tanking roles. Once velious comes out /disc defensive and higher AC softcaps (assuming they get that working well o_O) really put warriors leaps and bounds above the others. Paladins are there for brells and SKs are there for picking on larger un-mezzable/charmable trash pulls.

It's a complex answer, but pre-SSOY proc'ing (36? 35?) SK tends to do quite well with mana efficient aggro. Post dual SSOYs, warriors are pretty much untouchable on p1999 for tanking purposes, while paladins / SKs are much better pulls--It all depends on your group comp.

[girth]

At 50, I have difficulty keeping agro off of dual yak'd out warriors. When I was leveling, though, threat was a joke. So easy as an SK before you have to compete with good procs.

If I were to start over, I'd roll a warrior. BUT I love my SK, he's so fun to play and I'm glad I went SK, even if it took like a month longer to hit 50. The 'snap agro' of Disease Cloud is pretty imba if you don't plan to go heavy in the end game/raiding. Invis/IVU/see invis/ultravision/enduring breath/feign death/hide - SKs get all of those. Maybe I wouldn't roll a warrior lol.

-edit
Seriously though, warriors do take damage better than hybrids currently and the gap will only increase when disciplines come in.

making SKs just as good if not better pullers than monks

We damn well would be if higher-end snares(dooming+) worked like live here and stopped mobs from returning to spawn after losing agro

[VincentVolaju]

What if you dont take into consideration the big end game raids, cause chances are I wont be doing any of that. Im talking mostly just leveling up to max level, and doing some random dungeons, only really playing with a "group" of people rather then a raid.

I got a feeling I would like Warrior a bit more then the other 2 class's, mainly because Warrior doesnt have a 40% exp penalty haha. But if it came down to having to *pray* for a weapon proc in order to hold / pull aggro, then I would prob just go with an SK or Pally anyway =/. How often do weapons proc on here?

[Deric]

Warriors must rely solely on taunt, their DPS, and moreso procing weapons to hold their hate. The higher the level the mob in relation to themselves the more difficult it will be to do.

Hybrids have taunt as well as multiple spells to hold aggro.

SKs heavy hate drawing tools however rely on DoTs, where Pallies have flash and stuns to pull hate. They also have the ability to root a mob.

In this sense, Pallies are superior in protecting chanters as they can stack aggro before breaking mez, where SKs excel at spamming Disease cloud for massive hate.

~~~~

Warriors however have the highest HP bonus generally and thus are often the tank of choice for the most benefit from Complete Heal.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

What if you dont take into consideration the big end game raids, cause chances are I wont be doing any of that. Im talking mostly just leveling up to max level, and doing some random dungeons, only really playing with a "group" of people rather then a raid.

I got a feeling I would like Warrior a bit more then the other 2 class's, mainly because Warrior doesnt have a 40% exp penalty haha. But if it came down to having to *pray* for a weapon proc in order to hold / pull aggro, then I would prob just go with an SK or Pally anyway =/. How often do weapons proc on here?

Did anyone read my post? :( Proc-rates are crazy high here. You'll out threat hybrids going full out. It isn't classic, but damn it's useful.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Warriors must rely solely on taunt, their DPS, and moreso procing weapons to hold their hate. The higher the level the mob in relation to themselves the more difficult it will be to do.

Hybrids have taunt as well as multiple spells to hold aggro.

SKs heavy hate drawing tools however rely on DoTs, where Pallies have flash and stuns to pull hate. They also have the ability to root a mob.

In this sense, Pallies are superior in protecting chanters as they can stack aggro before breaking mez, where SKs excel at spamming Disease cloud for massive hate.

~~~~

Warriors however have the highest HP bonus generally and thus are often the tank of choice for the most benefit from Complete Heal.

Flash of light prevents a mob from moving to your ranged if someone is in melee. If no one is in melee and a mob is blinded it'll run feared. It allows you to blind a mob and haul off and ice comet it on inc, a tank is in ranged and the mob is blinded ~

[Deric]

How often do weapons proc on here?

Its pretty random honestly; it does have a DEX modifier and you can expect quite a few a fight, however, the timely nature of procs is all chance. If fighting mobs under your level, taunt and decent DPS alone can pull hate.

When chanters/bards are mezing, it can be a little more dicey. Though nothing a quick root couldn't fix with some wise casters. :)

[woofus]

I started a Pal and it has been a pain in the ass to the main tank because I can easily steal agro with Flash. Plus, when it comes down to the finish line in a close battle, Lay Hands keeps me alive to tank more mobs but the SK ability can take out one if you're lucky. I'm not hating SK or anything, just saying they are more DMG spec (pet, dot, etc.) while Pal is a def tank (heals, LH, buffs, stun, etc.). I'd only go a Warr for fun if I had a designated group to play and if I were bored. Early on you on auto attack and kick/bash with a taunt here and there. Boring, but effective in it's own way. It really comes down to your play style. Defensive = Paladin. Offensive = Shadow Knight. Boring 1v1 combat with a heavy orientation to having a need for twink equipment = Warrior...OK that was a knock at warriors but that is only because I have seen too many twink warriors that think they are the best and instead mess up a pull, can't hold agro as well, and constantly compete against other damage dealers.

[Thac0]

Did anyone read my post? :( Proc-rates are crazy high here. You'll out threat hybrids going full out. It isn't classic, but damn it's useful.Fullout = Hope to god my procs proc?

Dont get me wrong, when kunark lands Its a whole nother game for melee. Till then being a warrior just means you are slightly more efficent to heal with CH and thats about it.

Palis can agro without breaking mez and root the mob to prevent it from beelineing to the caster and SK's have disease cloud.

Warriors have Taunt (which the former 2 have) and procs (again nothing stops a pali or sk from using procs) and thats it. Hope your procs will save the caster while the mob plays player pingpong in the group (opps missed that taunt since it was out or range when the cleric healed and the mob ran over to the cleric and wacked um).

And heaven help you if your rooted (ghouls/casters) as a warrior cause then someones really gonna get pummled.

[eqholmes]

Ranger all the way! But seriously I know my ranger tanks better at 39 than most any sk/pal/war I ever met. Level 50 will be different storey but for leveling up, anyone that has grouped with me would agree :)

Holmes 50 Necro DA
Gretzky 39 Ranger DA

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Fullout = Hope to god my procs proc?

Dont get me wrong, when kunark lands Its a whole nother game for melee. Till then being a warrior just means you are slightly more efficent to heal with CH and thats about it.

Palis can agro without breaking mez and root the mob to prevent it from beelineing to the caster and SK's have disease cloud.

Warriors have Taunt (which the former 2 have) and procs (again nothing stops a pali or sk from using procs) and thats it. Hope your procs will save the caster while the mob plays player pingpong in the group (opps missed that taunt since it was out or range when the cleric healed and the mob ran over to the cleric and wacked um).

And heaven help you if your rooted (ghouls/casters) as a warrior cause then someones really gonna get pummled.

By full out i mean an SK spamming disease and a paladin spamming fol / stun rotations, the warrior will STILL pull more threat--that's how high the proc rates are here. This isn't classic proc rates o_O Go on any raid you'll see what I mean.

[Erasong]

Flash of light prevents a mob from moving to your ranged if someone is in melee. If no one is in melee and a mob is blinded it'll run feared. It allows you to blind a mob and haul off and ice comet it on inc, a tank is in ranged and the mob is blinded ~

This ^^. It is SO underrated, or misunderstood. Blind is the single best way to keep mobs off of ranged period. Also something folks havent pointed out. Paladins can multi agro several mobs all without breaking mezes. Something im sure our SK counterparts would give a lot for. As far as threat goes, DC is superior per cast but has a longer c/d then blind. Also i find my stuns out agro blind and when im chaining blind stun stun/repeat cycle, I hang with the very best warriors and SK's for agro gain. Also patching healing myself the same as a druid or shaman can if the CH will be late = priceless.

[Erasong]

Ranger all the way! But seriously I know my ranger tanks better at 39 than most any sk/pal/war I ever met. Level 50 will be different storey but for leveling up, anyone that has grouped with me would agree :)

Holmes 50 Necro DA
Gretzky 39 Ranger DA

trolling? or just rediculiously uninformed.

[eqholmes]

Well was 90% a joke, since everyone makes fun of rangers. Although I will say I do tank do better than most any tanks I have had in group, but I'm sure that has to do with yaks and fbss and so forth and before yak pro, ebony blades are pretty good for tanking since root owns for tanking.
If your saying that an twinked ranger cant tank better than sk/pal/war then I would disagree from my experiences. Clearly at 45+ I know this is a different storey, but this was about leveling up and tanking......

[Erasong]

Well was 90% a joke, since everyone makes fun of rangers. Although I will say I do tank do better than most any tanks I have had in group, but I'm sure that has to do with yaks and fbss and so forth and before yak pro, ebony blades are pretty good for tanking since root owns for tanking.
If your saying that an twinked ranger cant tank better than sk/pal/war then I would disagree from my experiences. Clearly at 45+ I know this is a different storey, but this was about leveling up and tanking......

makes more sense now. carry on good sir!

[eqholmes]

makes more sense now. carry on good sir!

Ya make a ranger as my first character!?!?! Must think I like to cut myself too hehe. Proceed with the ranger bashing, I'll help, I made a ranger to take the DT's for my guild! jk ...kinda ...I hope.... sadly probally true ...

[Erasong]

im making a ranger as we speak! seriously...

[VincentVolaju]

So how hard is tanking in EQ? Does it take alot of player skill and know how, or is it pretty easy? Say for a Paladin for example, is it really just auto attack, taunt, and a blind spell? That doesnt seem very hard, but I know nothing about tanking so maybe I am wrong?

[Dersk]

So how hard is tanking in EQ? Does it take alot of player skill and know how, or is it pretty easy? Say for a Paladin for example, is it really just auto attack, taunt, and a blind spell? That doesnt seem very hard, but I know nothing about tanking so maybe I am wrong?

Holding the opponent's attention is one part, which is generally easy for a paladin or shadowknight. Learning which spells to use isn't too difficult.

Then there's another aspect, which is also trivial, but most people seem incapable of comprehending: positioning.

No amount of AC, max HP, healing, or agro generation will ever redeem a tank that is too self-absorbed to notice the rogue can't backstab because the mob's back is against a wall.

[bullet]

So how hard is tanking in EQ? Does it take alot of player skill and know how, or is it pretty easy? Say for a Paladin for example, is it really just auto attack, taunt, and a blind spell? That doesnt seem very hard, but I know nothing about tanking so maybe I am wrong?

Pacman is harder then all the Everquest expansions combined.

Maybe that should answer your question.

[eqholmes]

im making a ranger as we speak! seriously...

Nice, lets ranger it up together, names Gretzky. Thinking we must make good surnames, can't decide what ranger I want to be. Whiteranger(aka Tommy) the cool ranger if you will, with his own bot! Pinkranger (aka Kim) was super hot and I always wanted to bang her when I was 7. Yellowranger (dont remember name, hot black chick!!) always a good choice, got me some jungle fever.

Everyone always calls me whayne anyways, even tho my name is only Gretzky atm.

What do ya think ERA?

PS. gotta be honest I hated the dye crap on live, but right now I wish I had some so I could make a full color of whatever ranger i decide to be. Would be rather funny to see a pack of 6 rangers in each of the respecting colors.

[VincentVolaju]

So when building a Warrior, should you concentrate more on Sta or Dex? At first I figured go all Sta but if your aggro = your procs and your procs = your dex, maybe pumping all creation stat points + gear with dex on it is the way to go?


Also, which race / god combo for an SK will make him the least evil / KOS to most of the world?

[azeth]

the thing with STA is its not doing a hell of a lot til your numbers get pretty beefy. unless you're twinked and looking at ~150ish-200 sta when playing a lowbie you're really not going to see much of a difference.

if i were to twink a tank I'd just pump raw HP items on them and depending on the class I'd look @ agility/dex