Time to End Account Buying/Selling?

[Doors]

Simple question with simple answers.

[citizen1080]

Accounts dont kill people, people do.

[Stormhowl]

Was account buying/selling permitted on live during Classic era?

[citizen1080]

When was 2boxing not permitted on live during classic era?

If you really want to derail this with the 'it isnt classic' argument.

[Nocte]

Please let this whole nonsense stop. I feel the same way about multiquesting epics. IMO that should be turned off.

[Deuces]

Was account buying/selling permitted on live during Classic era?

Nope it wasnt , but you always had a huge server population. This keeps people interested and playing more often.

[Pringles]

Please let this whole nonsense stop. I feel the same way about multiquesting epics. IMO that should be turned off.

Why, so those that did MQ them can have them, and those that havent have to do the quest instead of buying it?

The perceived damage is already done on epics / account sales, its pointless to stop it now. A fresh server? Sure... but not one thats this old etc etc etc etc.

[Rhambuk]

Was account buying/selling permitted on live during Classic era?

Not sure on buying/selling but a wizard and a druid traded accounts pre-kunark in my guild.

[Stormhowl]

If you really want to derail this with the 'it isnt classic' argument.

How is it a derailment if it's still on the topic of whether account buying/selling should be ended?

If the goal of the server, and it's "mission statement", is to replicate a classic experience, then shouldn't it try to remain classic?
I don't agree with the idea of account selling/buying. So of course I wouldn't participate in it, and I'm sure most people would say "cool story bro". But if this is a classic server, than non-classic elements shouldn't exist.

And yes, I'm aware that goes for this travesty of an end-game and the way it's been handled.

[Nocte]

Why, so those that did MQ them can have them, and those that havent have to do the quest instead of buying it?

The perceived damage is already done on epics / account sales, its pointless to stop it now. A fresh server? Sure... but not one thats this old etc etc etc etc.

That's a good point, but I don't think that allowing epic farming to continue indefinitely is a better alternative to grandfathering the existing MQ'd epics to remain.

[Tecmos Deception]

Why do so many people care so much about what other people do for fun? Just because you dont want to buy/sell accounts (or PL or twink or buy epic MQs or whatever) is a piss poor reason to disallow others from doing it. And I wont even get into the "its classic" stuff since recreating the "classic experience" is not the same as making an exact clone of live and the players and the world as it existed in 99-01.

[Nocte]

Why do so many people care so much about what other people do for fun? Just because you dont want to buy/sell accounts is a piss poor reason to disallow others from doing it. And I wont even get into the "its classic" stuff since recreating the "classic experience" is not the same as making an exact clone of live and the players and the world as it existed in 99-01.

Too much of an enabling tool to escape a bad reputation. In this type of environment, reputation is the only currency we really have.

[Kassel]

If the goal of the server, and it's "mission statement", is to replicate a classic experience, then shouldn't it try to remain classic?

This seemed to be tossed out the window back in 2010 =D
IE 2 boxing and Variance.

Banning account sales on this website will not end account sales.

[Tecmos Deception]

So because you are bad at picking friends, no one should be able to buy/sell accounts? If you are truly concerned that some character could be your arch nemesis hidden behind a newly-purchased account... why should EVERYONE ELSE make a change instead of just you?

[Doors]

Why do so many people care so much about what other people do for fun?

Because account selling on a server that Rogean has stated will never be wiped is going to get out of hand.

Kunark's been out for 2 years. People with unlimited wealth can afford to buy up rez bots, port bots, alts, and park a character on every single raid target. It's having a huge negative impact here, and will eventually do the same on red.

And this is coming from someone that originally leveled accounts up and sold them for plat to get started here.

[Tecmos Deception]

Personally I dont really care. I refuse to play a character that wasnt mine from creation and Ive got enough money Ill likely never sell an account again. But at least be persuasive rather than just whining about something you dont like.

[Tecmos Deception]

Why should.someone who can afford what is basically just "nice things" not be allowed to buy nice things? You guys arent making real arguments here.

[Doors]

What do you think is going to happen when Velious comes out and TMO has a geared 60 on every single faction?

[Gunga]

What do you think is going to happen when Velious comes out and TMO has a geared 60 on every single faction?

I will keep playing the game and not give a shit?

[Tecmos Deception]

What do you think is going to happen when Velious comes out and TMO has a geared 60 on every single faction?

If you're being serious, then u dum. If you're not serious, then 8/10.

[Faerie Blossom]

Account trading really ruins a lot of the "specialness" of EQ for me. The integrity of this project is tarnished by it.

In classic EQ, character reputation meant something. You knew who you were dealing with, and generally what sort of person they were. It's the community aspect of the game that really suffers with account sales and rampant PLs. I hope to be known in game as "Faerie," as opposed to "a druid."

[Tecmos Deception]

I will keep playing the game and not give a shit?

This man gets it!

Just because p99 isn't perfectly tailored to your individual idea of an MMO paradise doesn't mean it should be. So the most dedicated and most hardcore group of players on the server is the most "successful." What the hell else would/should you expect? This isn't some hipster preschool where everyone gets a gold star just for coming to school with their shoes on the correct feet.

[Nocte]

So because you are bad at picking friends, no one should be able to buy/sell accounts? If you are truly concerned that some character could be your arch nemesis hidden behind a newly-purchased account... why should EVERYONE ELSE make a change instead of just you?

My view doesn't have anything to do with my friends/enemies. On Live, if you were a cheating hack and got banned, you had to buy another account key and set up a new Station ID. There was a real-world penalty to running ShowEQ or exploting bugs, etc.

For EQEmu servers, I feel that the ability to obtain a fresh account (possibly with ill-gotten plat) to continue being a fuckup on a high level character should be stopped.
Essentially, the penalty for cheating is the loss of time it took to level that character (that cannot be reclaimed by buying a new character). If no one can escape a bad reputation by buying one, then it stands to reason that most high level characters are fair players (note: not necessarily "nice people," but fair players).

[Tecmos Deception]

Account trading really ruins a lot of the "specialness" of EQ for me. The integrity of this project is tarnished by it.

In classic EQ, character reputation meant something. You knew who you were dealing with, and generally what sort of person they were. It's the community aspect of the game that really suffers with account sales and rampant PLs. I hope to be known in game as "Faerie," as opposed to "a druid."

You guys are terrible at arguing. Omfg.


Dude, if you want to have a good rep, then do things that give you a good rep + don't sell your account. You can do both of those things without imposing rules on the entire server when apparently 50% of the server don't like those rules. Wtf?

[Doors]

I mean there were reasons this wasn't allowed on live. Not to mention there's the issue of people selling their accounts for plat then RMTing it, people getting caught cheating and selling the flagged accounts, etc.

[Tecmos Deception]

My view doesn't have anything to do with my friends/enemies. On Live, if you were a cheating hack and got banned, you had to buy another account key and set up a new Station ID. There was a real-world penalty to running ShowEQ or exploting bugs, etc.

For EQEmu servers, I feel that the ability to obtain a fresh account (possibly with ill-gotten plat) to continue being a fuckup on a high level character should be stopped.
Essentially, the penalty for cheating is the loss of time it took to level that character (that cannot be reclaimed by buying a new character). If no one can escape a bad reputation by buying one, then it stands to reason that most high level characters are fair players (note: not necessarily "nice people," but fair players).

Ok, finally a decent argument in favor of this. Banning account sales will probably make it less likely that we see cheaters succeed in the game because it will be harder for them to get back into the swing of things when their 60 gets banned. That makes sense.

[Tecmos Deception]

I mean there were reasons this wasn't allowed on live. Not to mention there's the issue of people selling their accounts for plat then RMTing it, people getting caught cheating and selling the flagged accounts, etc.

Wasn't allowed on live because it would have made less money if people didn't have to buy a new box every time they wanted a new account.

RMT is an issue but it is only connected to account sales like it is connected to farming seafuries. You aren't going to disallow farming seafuries just because some people who spend their days in OOT can RMT that PP, are you?

Selling flagged accounts is a caveat emptor thing, no need for the staff to go out of their way to help protect dumb buyers.

[citizen1080]

So the entire server is going to suffer because TMO stepped on someones epeen?

This is no different than needing to farm potions, or resist gear or whatever is needed to complete content.

TMO has just raised the bar. If they are getting their plat legit, then any other raid force can do that just as easily and do the same thing. Fight fire with fire, dont ruin what many people enjoy. Which is being able to try out different classes at different levels without the massive time sink of lvling them.

Personally I have time to whore in the tunnel here and there...but not time to group and lvl in content. I can't commit to a 4 hour group to actually gain some xp.

So being a person with more money than time I want to be able to buy an account if I want.

And while I am obviously biased on this as I have made a lot of money from brokering account sales I am not the only person who enjoys being able to do this.



My first post was not meant to be a joke. Account sales themselves are not an issue. Its the few people who abuse them that give it all a bad rap. And as someone mentioned, banning account sales is not going to stop account sales in the least. In fact it will just encourage RMT.

[Faerie Blossom]

You guys are terrible at arguing. Omfg.

You're not listening to anything said, and instead just repeat yourself. I wouldn't even call this an argument.

Regardless, Nilbog has come out and said that account sales will become against the rules at some point in the future. I'm happily awaiting that day :)

[Gunga]

Just wondering, the people arguing that account trading and selling should be banned. Do you also think that the war on drugs is a success also?

[Tecmos Deception]

You're not listening to anything said, and instead just repeat yourself. I wouldn't even call this an argument.

I said that you, specifically, were terrible at arguing because your argument didn't even support the conclusion. Your conclusion is that account transfers should be illegal, but your argument in favor of that was "I want people to know me as a person and not as a random druid" even though you can do that regardless of whether account sales are legal!

[Faerie Blossom]

I said that you, specifically, were terrible at arguing because your argument didn't even support the conclusion. Your conclusion is that account transfers should be illegal, but your argument in favor of that was "I want people to know me as a person and not as a random druid" even though you can do that regardless of whether account sales are legal!

You missed my point entirely.

I think you should calm down.

[Nocte]

Just wondering, the people arguing that account trading and selling should be banned. Do you also think that the war on drugs is a success also?

I'm not sure that anyone has suggested that account buyers/sellers should be banned. I think the argument is centered around whether or not buying and selling should be allowed. The penalty for breaking this proposed rule hasn't been explored in this thread, to my knowledge.

[Tecmos Deception]

I'm not sure that anyone has suggested that account buyers/sellers should be banned. I think the argument is centered around whether or not buying and selling should be allowed. The penalty for breaking this proposed rule hasn't been explored in this thread, to my knowledge.

He didn't say that account buyers/sellers should be banned, he was trying to direct his question to the people who are in favor of making account buying/selling illegal.

[Nocte]

Seems like he was mistakenly observing "people arguing that account trading and selling should be banned."

[Kimm Barely]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmx7lgHXuw1ql0o7zo1_500.gif

[quido]

Wow Harrison, you're a bad person. I can't believe you would buy and sell accounts knowing the negative impact it has on the server. I, for one, have never bought or sold an account! Harrison you are what's wrong with p99 - someone doing wrong and knowing it and not caring about the negative impact. You should be ashamed of yourself.

[quido]

you got it backwards, dummy

no account trades denies TMO characters and other people cash

[Nihilist_santa]

There are numerous reasons why account "sales" should be eliminated.

1. Economy - Items stay in circulation forever. On Live if someone quit and had items they didn't sell those items stayed out of the game.Whats the point in removing or nerfing the drop of an item if people just trade the accounts with the item It also encourages exploiting/duping and general cheating which hurts the economy.

2. Reputation - This one has already been covered but I will add that on live people were wary of account trades because of the time invested in your character and if you grouped with someone who bought their account and did not know their class it can cost you time/xp to group with them.

3. Level Variation - Instead of leveling an alt which in theory helps others to level people are just swapping/selling high level accounts. This leaves new players to struggle with grouping options.

[azxten]

There is a simple solution to all the problems relating to account trading. Allow it but never investigate scammers. This is how it was on live and this is really why no one traded accounts in the end.

Could you imagine trying to sell your account in classic and getting scammed then making a post on the SOE forums requesting that Sony investigate and ban whoever did it?

The fact that account trades are not only allowed but also investigated when people get scammed shows that there is ZEROCHANCE of stopping account trading here because it is supported by the people who run the server.

Thread over.

[Cippofra]

Why do so many people care so much about what other people do for fun? Just because you dont want to buy/sell accounts (or PL or twink or buy epic MQs or whatever) is a piss poor reason to disallow others from doing it. And I wont even get into the "its classic" stuff since recreating the "classic experience" is not the same as making an exact clone of live and the players and the world as it existed in 99-01.

My way is the only way to have fun. I care because you're having fun the wrong way.

[Nocte]

There is a simple solution to all the problems relating to account trading. Allow it but never investigate scammers. This is how it was on live and this is really why no one traded accounts in the end.

Could you imagine trying to sell your account in classic and getting scammed then making a post on the SOE forums requesting that Sony investigate and ban whoever did it?

The fact that account trades are not only allowed but also investigated when people get scammed shows that there is ZEROCHANCE of stopping account trading here because it is supported by the people who run the server.

Thread over.

I disagree. You'll still have entrepreneurs with good reputations willing market their trustworthy business for a percentage commission of character sales. (see also: Bob from EC Tunnel circa 2011).

[azxten]

I disagree. You'll still have entrepreneurs with good reputations willing market their trustworthy business for a percentage commission of character sales. (see also: Bob from EC Tunnel circa 2011).

Yes, but just recently someone with a good reputation scammed someone of something like 1.5 million platinum and the GMs stepped in and banned them.

Account trading is 100% supported by the server staff here. Its treated as if you had an actual trade window where you put an account and got platinum.

[citizen1080]

Yes, but just recently someone with a good reputation scammed someone of something like 1.5 million platinum and the GMs stepped in and banned them.

Account trading is 100% supported by the server staff here. Its treated as if you had an actual trade window where you put an account and got platinum.

This stance has changed since I was active than.


When I was brokering the Gm stance was complete non involvement. If you put plat in a trade window with nothing on the other side and hit trade, then that is your issue. The risk was 100% on the players. I got scammed out of an account myself during this time period and was told tough luck.

[Nocte]

Yes, but just recently someone with a good reputation scammed someone of something like 1.5 million platinum and the GMs stepped in and banned them.

But this doesn't mean that everyone with a good reputation is going to scam a buyer/seller just because they can. This will only serve to create a market for those with superb reps to buy/sell accounts. If the goal is to eliminate account sales, this solution is not the best.

[Vexenu]

It's absolutely asinine for people to come in here and say things like, "Why do you care about account selling? It doesn't change the way you play the game. Let people have fun and play the game the way they want."

This is simply not the case. The rampant buying and selling of accounts has major implications at all levels of the game, from casual to hardcore, 1-60.

1) It eliminates the importance of reputation, since a banned player can simply buy a new account
2) Encourages cheating, for the same reason
3) Turns the raid scene into a farce that is largely based on accumulating accounts and camping them out at raid targets
4) Artificially de-populates the lower levels of the game since fewer people level alts, which hurts new players
5) Contributes to the top-heavy nature of the server since accounts don't necessarily leave when players do
6) Is a major conduit for RMT, and is much more difficult to detect since suspicious in-game transfers don't need to take place
7) Artificially increases the demand and market price of mid to high-end gear, since it is being constantly bought and sold to outfit stripped chars people purchased
8) Eliminates feelings of community since character/player identities are so transient and ultimately meaningless

Imagine P1999 as being a nice public park that people can come enjoy, hang out, have picnics, fly kites, throw footballs, etc... generally do whatever they want.

People defending account sales would be like if a bunch of rednecks drove into the park in 4x4s and started doing donuts in the grass and running over bushes and generally making a wreck of the place, and told everyone else to fuck off because, "I'm enjoying the park the way I want to!"

[Faerie Blossom]

It's absolutely asinine for people to come in here and say things like, "Why do you care about account selling? It doesn't change the way you play the game. Let people have fun and play the game the way they want."

This is simply not the case. The rampant buying and selling of accounts has major implications at all levels of the game, from casual to hardcore, 1-60.

1) It eliminates the importance of reputation, since a banned player can simply buy a new account
2) Encourages cheating, for the same reason
3) Turns the raid scene into a farce that is largely based on accumulating accounts and camping them out at raid targets
4) Artificially de-populates the lower levels of the game since fewer people level alts, which hurts new players
5) Contributes to the top-heavy nature of the server since accounts don't necessarily leave when players do
6) Is a major conduit for RMT, and is much more difficult to detect since suspicious in-game transfers don't need to take place
7) Artificially increases the demand and market price of mid to high-end gear, since it is being constantly bought and sold to outfit stripped chars people purchased
8) Eliminates feelings of community since character/player identities are so transient and ultimately meaningless

Imagine P1999 as being a nice public park that people can come enjoy, hang out, have picnics, fly kites, throw footballs, etc... generally do whatever they want.

People defending account sales would be like if a bunch of rednecks drove into the park in 4x4s and started doing donuts in the grass and running over bushes and generally making a wreck of the place, and told everyone else to fuck off because, "I'm enjoying the park the way I want to!"

Winner of Faerie's "Post of the Week" award! I know it's only monday, but this is not going to be bested.

Very well organized; expresses what should be common sense in a concise and clear way. Uncultured redneck analogy spot on and funny :)

A+

[Stinkum]

Rampant account selling is the root of most evils on P99.

What stopped everyone from being a dick in game on Live? The fact that it took you forever to level your character and you couldn't just re-roll on a whim or buy/sell a new character.

[vulzol]

Account selling only really affects the 1%ers. When the 1%ers roll alts they are power leveled in high ZEM and populated zones like Unrest saying "f off" to everybody else. In fact, I'd say that account selling keeps these people out of lower level zones, leaving more mobs for newbies to kill.

On P1999 people will do ANYTHING to get an edge on the raid scene. Try to stop account selling and it'll move elsewhere under the radar. Epic MQing? Won't stop until the top guilds have a full raid camped out at every raid target.

Just give up. Unless you're sucking the dick of the leaders of a top guild you'll never see top gear and perhaps not your epic.

[webrunner5]

Account selling only really affects the 1%ers. When the 1%ers roll alts they are power leveled in high ZEM and populated zones like Unrest saying "f off" to everybody else. In fact, I'd say that account selling keeps these people out of lower level zones, leaving more mobs for newbies to kill.

On P1999 people will do ANYTHING to get an edge on the raid scene. Try to stop account selling and it'll move elsewhere under the radar. Epic MQing? Won't stop until the top guilds have a full raid camped out at every raid target.

Just give up. Unless you're sucking the dick of the leaders of a top guild you'll never see top gear and perhaps not your epic.

What he said. Just play the game and have fun. He is right. Get in TMO and live on the damn server 24/7 or just STFU about crying about the raid scene.

[Estu]

To people talking about boxing being classic: the difference is that in classic, boxing was not easily available to everyone because you'd have to actually buy more accounts to do it. On P99, if boxing was allowed, everyone could do it with no monetary investment, so it would be much more widespread. Therefore, banning it altogether would in fact produce a sever closer to the classic experience even if it wasn't banned in classic.

To people saying that account trading will still happen when it's banned: obviously it will, but it will happen less. The war on drugs analogy made earlier is pretty apt here (though, supporting the opposite point that poster meant to support): yeah, people still do illegal drugs, but they do illegal drugs a lot less than if they were legal, because they have to worry about staying out of the eyes of the law and the social stigma attached to it.

[Gel Mibson]

some people want to enjoy the endgame without having the time to grind 100+ hours to get to level 60. i don't see the problem here.

[Rhambuk]

some people want to enjoy the endgame without having the time to grind 100+ hours to get to level 60. i don't see the problem here.

Most of us have no problem with it, but there are a few that seeing accounts being sold makes them rabid at the mouth...

[Estu]

Most of us have no problem with it

The 70% yes vote on this poll says otherwise.

[Rhambuk]

The 70% yes vote on this poll says otherwise.

okay, most people are against it...

ban it now so us veterans can stop wasting our time and move on

[Gadwen]

When I came back to this server I was actually really surprised to see that account selling was even allowed. It doesn't help the server, the reasons have been well stated by a few posters here. Ultimately it comes down to one argument on the side of those in support "But its fun for me".

If you want be able to quickly experience the end game of a new class without a significant amount of time invested, you are playing the wrong MMO.

[Rhambuk]

When I came back to this server I was actually really surprised to see that account selling was even allowed. It doesn't help the server, the reasons have been well stated by a few posters here. Ultimately it comes down to one argument on the side of those in support "But its fun for me".

If you want be able to quickly experience the end game of a new class without a significant amount of time invested, you are playing the wrong MMO.

I've been here since jan 2010, after leveling 4 chars forgive me if I dont feel like sitting around lfg for hours to get into a pug that MIGHT last long enuogh to get some experience.

The only issue I have is if the Gm's start defining what people can and cant do with their time invested and money gained why even bother...

for the people to p99 im sure it looks horrible etc etc, but for people ( like me) that have been here for years its nothing...

Don't like account sales, you are playing the wrong MMO.

[kotton05]

How would they rid buying/selling accounts tho? I don't see a clear way to really police an issue like that.

[Rhambuk]

How would they rid buying/selling accounts tho? I don't see a clear way to really police an issue like that.

yes, it would be a HUGE waste of time having the staff trying to keep track of whos account is whos when were already a year late on velious.

[Barkingturtle]

I don't want to experience "endgame". I want to take five or six months off, come back and trade my account for something new. Then I just dick around, seeing what it's like to be a druid or a rogue with his epic. I really appreciate that the way the rules currently stand I can do that instead of grinding a character to 30 and forgetting about P99 again for a year only to return and do the exact same thing, again. It is about my fun. Sorry if my fun hurt your fun but if it's really eating at you it's time to take five or six months off, yourself.

imo, ofc

[Rhambuk]

I don't want to experience "endgame". I want to take five or six months off, come back and trade my account for something new. Then I just dick around, seeing what it's like to be a druid or a rogue with his epic. I really appreciate that the way the rules currently stand I can do that instead of grinding a character to 30 and forgetting about P99 again for a year only to return and do the exact same thing, again. It is about my fun. Sorry if my fun hurt your fun but if it's really eating at you it's time to take five or six months off, yourself.

imo, ofc

Always love barkingturtle and the gore sig...

[Gadwen]

I've been here since jan 2010, after leveling 4 chars forgive me if I dont feel like sitting around lfg for hours to get into a pug that MIGHT last long enuogh to get some experience.

The only issue I have is if the Gm's start defining what people can and cant do with their time invested and money gained why even bother...

for the people to p99 im sure it looks horrible etc etc, but for people ( like me) that have been here for years its nothing...

Don't like account sales, you are playing the wrong MMO.

GMs already define what you can do with the time invested and plat earned.

Sorry but it looks like you are in the minority here, but I guess most of the people who have voted here are playing the wrong MMO. The people who like to level up characters and enjoy meeting people in those horrid PUGs definitely don't belong in EQ.

[Rhambuk]

If we don't want people playing with characters they haven't "earned" we should ban all ec trades I mean if you didnt physiclly loot the item your just circumventing game mechanics because your lazy. I bought a BCG the other day, should it be removed because I didnt earn it by raiding draco.

If I put in the time to make enough money to buy an account versus putting in the time to level it up myself, there is no difference to me i sat here grinding away for cash or for exp,

if you hate it so much dont partake problem solved, keep blaming the economy on acount trades, im sure fungi went from 75k-85k because that one guy sold his wiz for 2mil plat....

AND! Wheres the poll to ban bard ae swarm kiting? that literally ruins an entire zones "fun"

[orsk]

Nope it wasnt , but you always had a huge server population. This keeps people interested and playing more often.

Im not sure about other servers but it was widely known people bought and sold accounts on Tallon Zek. It was widely known that people 2 boxed, and even that one guy Linse who bought and sold accounts, sold plat, made a fortune off it. He had like 6 comps going and farmed EVERYYYTHINNNNGGGGGGGGGfuk.

[Rhambuk]

Im not sure about other servers but it was widely known people bought and sold accounts on Tallon Zek. It was widely known that people 2 boxed, and even that one guy Linse who bought and sold accounts, sold plat, made a fortune off it. He had like 6 comps going and farmed EVERYYYTHINNNNGGGGGGGGGfuk.

NO NO NO NO NOOOOOO NO NO NOOOOO NO NO O NO N ONOOOOO NOOO NOOO!!!!

ITS WRONG ITS WRONG!! IT DIDNT HAPPEN IN LIVE ITS NOT CLASSIC NO NO NO ACCOUNT SALES ON P99

STOP SPREADING LIES TO KEEP ACCOUNT SALES GOING YOU GREEDY SUNBIT!

[Nitholias01]

I think to just satisfy those who want to see account selling banned, it should be. But, in EC tunnel and on the forums. That's the p99 staff's lane. It would satisfy both parties to an extent. The traders would still have other means to buy/sell/trade accounts, sure. Much like it was on live (ebay anyone?)

[orsk]

You're not listening to anything said, and instead just repeat yourself. I wouldn't even call this an argument.

Regardless, Nilbog has come out and said that account sales will become against the rules at some point in the future. I'm happily awaiting that day :)

How would this in any way be enforced it will just go underground and still happen. Good idea.

[orsk]

NO NO NO NO NOOOOOO NO NO NOOOOO NO NO O NO N ONOOOOO NOOO NOOO!!!!

ITS WRONG ITS WRONG!! IT DIDNT HAPPEN IN LIVE ITS NOT CLASSIC NO NO NO ACCOUNT SALES ON P99

STOP SPREADING LIES TO KEEP ACCOUNT SALES GOING YOU GREEDY SUNBIT!

Well it was a common slur, which was worse than saying i fucked your mom, you called someone a Ebayer, which meant they didnt earn their shit. That shits classic.

[Nitholias01]

How would this in any way be enforced it will just go underground and still happen. Good idea.

That's exactly what will happen... but with all due respect, so what?

[OMGWTF420]

the results of the poll speaks for itself, kill account traders with fire!!!!!!!!

[Swish]

Account buying/selling...its like the EC game, only for bigger plat (in some cases).

Hard to stop, and I've sold an account (which I regret) myself - blue Swish isnt me these days :p

Its one of those "day 1" things. I'd support a ban on a new server but it seems a bit late for that here.

[orsk]

That's exactly what will happen... but with all due respect, so what?

Oh i could not give two shits about it, i recently bought an account for my brother so he and i could have some fun together, we both are in the military and he is active so i barely see him, it would have sucked for him to make a newby and play with Orsk. i bought him a 57 rogue which he would have loved! Sadly he cant get on to p99 for some reason(his computer) so i ended up trading it for a shaman, which i enjoy somewhat.

I really dont like the idea of playing something i didnt level up myself to be honest, and i am probably a shit shaman for it, which is why the term ebayer is so bad, it means you sucks ass. and Tallon Zek was a cruel cruel yet lovely place <3 But i got it for a diff reason than trying to use for myself, which im sure others would like to do sometimes as well.

[feanan]

make passwords so they can't be changed.

that way, any time you decide to share your account with people, or sell it, you can never be sure that the people you shared with or the old owner can't just take it back on a whim

that would stop this shit cold

[orsk]

make passwords so they can't be changed.

that way, any time you decide to share your account with people, or sell it, you can never be sure that the people you shared with or the old owner can't just take it back on a whim

that would stop this shit cold

This would suck is ANYONE ever found out your password. Bad idea in many other ways as well.

[OMGWTF420]

just an idea but couldn't they tie accounts to the IP address you used to create the account and only allow accounts to log in from said IP, require petitions to change your IP.... like if you move or something. not sure how well that would work and i really dont know shit about shit when it comes to these kinds of things but it seems like if they could put IP blocks up to prevent boxing they could do it for account traders

[TWDL_Prexus]

Can't do the IP thing. Some people, especially Euros have Dynamic IPs that change (almost?) daily.

[Swish]

Can't do the IP thing. Some people, especially Euros have Dynamic IPs that change (almost?) daily.

[SirAlvarex]

just an idea but couldn't they tie accounts to the IP address you used to create the account and only allow accounts to log in from said IP, require petitions to change your IP.... like if you move or something. not sure how well that would work and i really dont know shit about shit when it comes to these kinds of things but it seems like if they could put IP blocks up to prevent boxing they could do it for account traders

It's a decent idea in theory due to today's movement towards static IP addresses for households. But a lot of players play on the road (I've played in hotel rooms on business trips) and this would be a massive hassle (unless they have a privately owned proxy with a static IP address). Phones also can have a floating IP address, so those who use tethering for their gaming pleasure would be SoL. And I've known atleast a dozen people who have done that.

[Gadwen]

just an idea but couldn't they tie accounts to the IP address you used to create the account and only allow accounts to log in from said IP, require petitions to change your IP.... like if you move or something. not sure how well that would work and i really dont know shit about shit when it comes to these kinds of things but it seems like if they could put IP blocks up to prevent boxing they could do it for account traders

That's not necessary, and it would just cause a huge headache for all players considering a lot of people have dynamic IPs.

If account selling were to be made a bannable offense the GMs can investigate it and deal with it like they do any other offense

[OMGWTF420]

ah for sure, well it sounds good anyways, thanks for the insight fellas

[Nocte]

some people want to enjoy the endgame without having the time to grind 100+ hours to get to level 60.

I want to be able to die and not lose exp, but that's not how EverQuest works. If you want a level 60 character with good gear, you should have to put the time in, not the plat.

[Uggme]

It seems a very large majority of the server would like to see account selling / trading put to a halt somehow, and for that I applaud the community!

There are a few posts listing some very compelling agruments as to why this needs to take place for the overall betterment of the server. As a whole and I agree with all of them! Most specifically, the reputation arguments. The fact that it took a considerable amount of time to level meant that your reputation was exceedingly valuble. Messing it up intentionally or being underhanded almost always led to the shunning of said individual, and the community itself behaved better to avoid being shunned themselves. What better way to save our caretakers time than by making it easier to police ourselves?!

To the person who made the argument stating "I've leveled to 60 three times already and shouldn't have to do it again": you sir are rediculous. You don't want to level to 60 a 4th time? Fine. Then DON'T DO IT! Using your massive plat bank as a means to forgo the intended time sink in leveling is certainly not what Verant (or hardly any other players back then) had in mind. Might I suggest getting some sun, or perhaps working on your career. I know this is supposed to be classic EQ but I'm pretty sure that doesn't mean you should move back in to your mother's basement and play 14 hours a day.

[Faerie Blossom]

How would this in any way be enforced it will just go underground and still happen. Good idea.

I'd imagine that they're not going to talk about their plans to enforce this, much like their process for hunting down plat sellers and buyers that went so well recently.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=916972&postcount=76

[Gel Mibson]

The 70% yes vote on this poll says otherwise.

thats 70% of the sample size who actually cared enough to vote. This probably represents 35% of the total forum member population which totals to roughly 25% of the total emu population, representing <5% of total player population.

[Faerie Blossom]

thats 70% of the sample size who actually cared enough to vote. This probably represents 35% of the total forum member population which totals to roughly 25% of the total emu population, roughly representing <10% of total player population.

And the only votes that matter (server staff) have been tallied in favor of ending account trading.

[xCry0x]

What is the difference between buying a level 40 account for 30k or paying someone 30k to pl you to 40?

I think the real problem is that people have had time at this point to obtain tons of level 60 raid geared accounts to park all over the place and there is no real fix to that problem. If you were to ban account selling then the same people would just set up massive pl farms to level accounts to meet the same end result.

If anything, selling accounts helps distribute wealth. Anyone can go level to 50+, get some planar gear and then sell their account for 60k+. To some people that might be a better/more enjoyable way to make money than camping crypt/fungi days on end.

[Stormhowl]

thats 70% of the sample size who actually cared enough to vote. This probably represents 35% of the total forum member population which totals to roughly 25% of the total emu population, representing <5% of total player population.

Many studies use a sample size of 500-1000 people (or even less than that) to come to a scientific or psychological conclusion that then end up in university text books and officially recognized scholarly journals that are then peer reviewed. In a world population of several billion.

What is your point?

[Rhambuk]

one less thing for people to spend riches on. people have literally millions of plat and your going to fake out fhe biggest plat sink / redistribution?

fungi for 150k anyone? when people know that others have millions theyll jack prices and theyll sell because what else are they going to spend it on?

[Faerie Blossom]

one less thing for people to spend riches on. people have literally millions of plat and your going to fake out fhe biggest plat sink / redistribution?

fungi for 150k anyone? when people know that others have millions theyll jack prices and theyll sell because what else are they going to spend it on?

Circulating existing money is not a sink.

[Swish]

Many studies use a sample size of 500-1000 people (or even less than that) to come to a scientific or psychological conclusion that then end up in university text books and officially recognized scholarly journals that are then peer reviewed. In a world population of several billion.

What is your point?

At the same time I dont think I'd value someone from Siberia voting on a P99 poll because they likely dont play here :p

Sorry to split hairs :)

[Uggme]

What is the difference between buying a level 40 account for 30k or paying someone 30k to pl you to 40?

I think the real problem is that people have had time at this point to obtain tons of level 60 raid geared accounts to park all over the place and there is no real fix to that problem. If you were to ban account selling then the same people would just set up massive pl farms to level accounts to meet the same end result.

If anything, selling accounts helps distribute wealth. Anyone can go level to 50+, get some planar gear and then sell their account for 60k+. To some people that might be a better/more enjoyable way to make money than camping crypt/fungi days on end.

What's the difference? The difference is still time. It takes time to power-level a character to 40. The person on the recieving end must be present and active, and the person providing the service must act as well. Additionally, power-leveledd person at 40 still has the hardest and longest part of the game to level and complete - 40 to 60. This means his or her reputation and things they do from that point forward are still of substancial value. This holds true even if someone is Powerleveled from 1 to 60. It would still take a lot of time to get there - you'd go to dungeons, interact with groups, other people, and camp named mobs for possible loot. Thus, the powerleveled individual is still earning a reputation, either good or bad.

The issue here isn't "distribution of wealth" at all. We already know that anyone with the proper time (interesting how there's a corrolation between time and growth in eq, eh?) and knowledge can make mountains of plat in EC tunnel in a relatively short amount of time, or by camping the proper mob drops for sale, or by getting in good with a guild and selling stuff that gets replaced. To bring in account sales as a means of making the plat available to anyone is a justification only, not a legitimate reason to keep it around.

[Gadwen]

one less thing for people to spend riches on. people have literally millions of plat and your going to fake out fhe biggest plat sink / redistribution?

fungi for 150k anyone? when people know that others have millions theyll jack prices and theyll sell because what else are they going to spend it on?

If you have millions of plat in the bank you could easily get one of each class and still have 150k left to spend on an overpriced fungi tunic. So why aren't people already charging 150k then?

[Swish]

Depends what you want out of the game anyway, is it unenjoyable without at least 1 fungi/1 manastone in the bank? Got to feel like you're a factor to enjoy the game?

All overblown IMO, if you can twink a character with a decent weapon/robe and some other armor bits...thats enjoyment enough isnt it? My SK alt in DE cultural wíh an atramentous shield and (weapon i forget the name of 16/28 ish), thats plenty.

I dont want a fungi, I dont need a manastone, and a FBSS really isnt necessary either.

[Dirtnap]

I like how all the people for account sales are ultimately saying "It should stay allowed because I enjoy it and it is fun for me!"

If we just follow that logic for everything we should just allow 6 boxing and MQ, and ShowEQ and any other cheating software. Whoever is doing those things enjoy it, so why are you ruining their fun?

[Rhambuk]

Circulating existing money is not a sink.

its not like high end players just sell back and forth. most account sales are lower level toons. a new player leveling to 40 and selling an account takes money from the rich and gibes it to this new player. only recently have i seen the epic acount sales vp keyed fully decked chars thats one thing.

but lower level/casual players selling stripped toons to these millionaires it hurts their pocket and fills someone that might not already have 2 mil.

haters goin hate

[Rhambuk]

I like how all the people for account sales are ultimately saying "It should stay allowed because I enjoy it and it is fun for me!"

If we just follow that logic for everything we should just allow 6 boxing and MQ, and ShowEQ and any other cheating software. Whoever is doing those things enjoy it, so why are you ruining their fun?

its the exact same thing on the other side! its ruining my fun stop it!

if it went that way he server would be in a full rotation which im sure most are for but even that would hurt the server. belive it or not.....

[Faerie Blossom]

its not like high end players just sell back and forth. most account sales are lower level toons. a new player leveling to 40 and selling an account takes money from the rich and gibes it to this new player. only recently have i seen the epic acount sales vp keyed fully decked chars thats one thing.

but lower level/casual players selling stripped toons to these millionaires it hurts their pocket and fills someone that might not already have 2 mil.

haters goin hate

Maybe I haven't been watching account sales closely enough, but most of them seem to be 50+, and quite a few are 60 with epic and such. And I've never heard of a player leveling to 40 to sell the character for money to give to a new character. Who would waste their time like that?

[Nitholias01]

Maybe I haven't been watching account sales closely enough, but most of them seem to be 50+, and quite a few are 60 with epic and such. And I've never heard of a player leveling to 40 to sell the character for money to give to a new character. Who would waste their time like that?

Me :D

I started this server like 2 years ago, been playing pretty casually and i've managed to sell and trade my way to CoF, Fungi, few other high ends all on a *drumroll* level 8 monk... and the fun part is my first char here was a monk lol

i'm just one of those folks who despises high end raiding but absolutely love leveling characters.

[Uggme]

its not like high end players just sell back and forth. most account sales are lower level toons. a new player leveling to 40 and selling an account takes money from the rich and gibes it to this new player. only recently have i seen the epic acount sales vp keyed fully decked chars thats one thing.

but lower level/casual players selling stripped toons to these millionaires it hurts their pocket and fills someone that might not already have 2 mil.

haters goin hate

Distribution of wealth will still take place even if account sales are stopped. This holds true for new players, including myself. A New player who wants to make more plat only needs to exert a little effort to find out what's valuble within their range of aquiring, get it, then sell it. Profit!

I've already got some ideas on how to get easily camped stuff valuble to raiders, sell it, and hopefully earn over 100k WHILE I gain experience.

Again the issue isn't plat for newbs. It's account sales murking up the sandbox for the majority of players on the server. Put a stop to it, and you'll find a lot more people caring about what they do in game or risk losing it all.

[Faerie Blossom]

Me :D

I started this server like 2 years ago, been playing pretty casually and i've managed to sell and trade my way to CoF, Fungi, few other high ends all on a *drumroll* level 8 monk... and the fun part is my first char here was a monk lol

i'm just one of those folks who despises high end raiding but absolutely love leveling characters.

Interesting!

[Rhambuk]

Distribution of wealth will still take place even if account sales are stopped. This holds true for new players, including myself. A New player who wants to make more plat only needs to exert a little effort to find out what's valuble within their range of aquiring, get it, then sell it. Profit!

I've already got some ideas on how to get easily camped stuff valuble to raiders, sell it, and hopefully earn over 100k WHILE I gain experience.

Again the issue isn't plat for newbs. It's account sales murking up the sandbox for the majority of players on the server. Put a stop to it, and you'll find a lot more people caring about what they do in game or risk losing it all.

you dont think people will raise prices for those useful items to raiders knowing theyre loaded?

this just increases the price od items making it even harder for newer players to try gearing up in ec. but i guess they can do what you do even if thats not how they want to play...

[Rhambuk]

Me :D

I started this server like 2 years ago, been playing pretty casually and i've managed to sell and trade my way to CoF, Fungi, few other high ends all on a *drumroll* level 8 monk... and the fun part is my first char here was a monk lol

i'm just one of those folks who despises high end raiding but absolutely love leveling characters.

congratulations! arent you glad you had the option to do that

[Nitholias01]

Lol yes and no.

I say yes because that has been my play style since live, and it's nice to finally be rewarded for my work instead of just a character select screen with a bunch of naked 40+ toons.

But no because I just feel too damn guilty sometimes hahaha

[Rhambuk]

Lol yes and no.

I say yes because that has been my play style since live, and it's nice to finally be rewarded for my work instead of just a character select screen with a bunch of naked 40+ toons.

But no because I just feel too damn guilty sometimes hahaha

life is about enjoying our guilty pleasures! be proud!

[letsallkillandy]

I have a hard time siding for the sale of accounts seeing as it encourages RMT to happen. Theres no good reason to keep it. Theres no negative effect if we got rid of it.

[Uggme]

you dont think people will raise prices for those useful items to raiders knowing theyre loaded?

this just increases the price od items making it even harder for newer players to try gearing up in ec. but i guess they can do what you do even if thats not how they want to play...

Yes, newer players get items raiders want or are too lazy to get themselves. New players profit. Old player with plat to spare uses it. Win / win for all. old item costs will stay down for newbies due to how common they are and the fact that they themselves can camp it under a lot of circustances.

Using "its good to spread the wealth" is not a reason to keep account sales in place. It's an excuse.

[myriverse]

Can't do the IP thing. Some people, especially Euros have Dynamic IPs that change (almost?) daily.
There's that, and we live in a mobile world these days. I can sit at my desk at home and choose between 5-6 IPs to play P99 (mine, a friend's, and 3-4 hotspots in proximity). Give me 10-15 minutes, and I can double the choices easily.

[Woahnelly]

Reading this late. Somebody posted "how would they ban selling accounts tho?"

What if there were no password changes allowed? Nobody would buy an account if the former owner could access it also, right?

[Stinkum]

Reading this late. Somebody posted "how would they ban selling accounts tho?"

What if there were no password changes allowed? Nobody would buy an account if the former owner could access it also, right?

Yep.

Nobody's gonna buy any accounts if there were no PW changes allowed to EQMU for LS passwords.

Who the hell would trust the seller not to just come back and steal all the items you put on the character? Or straight up delete him? Or resell him a second time? Third time?

Remove password changes will effectively gut account selling/buying, and is extremely doable.

[Swish]

The thread is at a dead end really... I think the point has been made that its too far down the road (not to mention more work for the volunteers) to ban account selling.

[Faerie Blossom]

The thread is at a dead end really... I think the point has been made that its too far down the road (not to mention more work for the volunteers) to ban account selling.

No, the final point here is that the devs are working on banning account sales.

[seped]

Many studies use a sample size of 500-1000 people (or even less than that) to come to a scientific or psychological conclusion that then end up in university text books and officially recognized scholarly journals that are then peer reviewed. In a world population of several billion.

What is your point?

The complaint isn't against sampling size, it's against sampling bias. Real studies attempt to control for the bias and find ways to approach a random sampling of the population, which is why they can draw conclusions from a relatively small sample size. They don't use forum polls.

[cyryllis]

terrible idea, would end up with a lower population

plenty of people get tired of their 60 whatever and want to play another class, so they can sell/trade for a more desirable class to play.

without account trading/selling a lot of people would simply stop playing because not everyone has the time/energy to re-lvl a completely new class to 60.

[vulzol]

I've been here since jan 2010, after leveling 4 chars forgive me if I dont feel like sitting around lfg for hours to get into a pug that MIGHT last long enuogh to get some experience.

The only issue I have is if the Gm's start defining what people can and cant do with their time invested and money gained why even bother...

for the people to p99 im sure it looks horrible etc etc, but for people ( like me) that have been here for years its nothing...

Don't like account sales, you are playing the wrong MMO.

Spoken like a true corporate lobbyist.

We should all just stop circle-jerking. Nothing will ever change.

[Swish]

No, the final point here is that the devs are working on banning account sales.

I know Faerie but its not going to take away the multiple TMO alts camped in various locations. The only people its going to hurt is someone who wants to do a trade-in.

[Gel Mibson]

Many studies use a sample size of 500-1000 people (or even less than that) to come to a scientific or psychological conclusion that then end up in university text books and officially recognized scholarly journals that are then peer reviewed. In a world population of several billion.

What is your point?

And yes, to design a proper survey to represent said population you described, you mainly need to:
1. select the right sample
2. control bias

In this case:
1. you need to select the right sample - a RANDOM sample. This poll does not contain a random sample, yet the sample consists of those who (#2) have a bias. Therefore...
2. there is no way to control the bias on this particular poll - in fact, the ones who have a strong bias are the ones who answer the poll and a good portion of them don't even play this game, so their vote doesn't even matter.

That's my point, you fool of a took, that this poll represents 5% of the total playing population. Before you like to throw in some random 'fact' you found on the internet, do your research before you post because it's just making you look uneducated.

[Gadwen]

And yes, to design a proper survey to represent said population you described, you mainly need to:
1. select the right sample
2. control bias

In this case:
1. you need to select the right sample - a RANDOM sample. This poll does not contain a random sample, yet the sample consists of those who (#2) have a bias. Therefore...
2. there is no way to control the bias on this particular poll - in fact, the ones who have a strong bias are the ones who answer the poll and a good portion of them don't even play this game, so their vote doesn't even matter.

That's my point, you fool of a took, that this poll represents 5% of the total playing population. Before you like to throw in some random 'fact' you found on the internet, do your research before you post because it's just making you look uneducated.

What research do you have that backs up your statement about a good portion of the voters not even playing the game? Please cite source.

[feanan]

To those that say we'd end up with a lower population...so what.

It's probably the same 100 people at the top selling accounts back and forth anyway.

[SupaflyIRL]

No, the final point here is that the devs are working on banning account sales.

I would say account sales and shoring up server integrity are priority one ahead of velious.

[Lyra]

life is about enjoying our guilty pleasures! be proud!

Such wisdom on the emulator forums. Searching for the meaning of life? Search no further!

As an objective observer, you seem very determined to keep account trading / selling as an option.

We've all seen the bard swarm. You don't have to search for those difficult to find boring groups.

Since I don't buy into your reasoning, I have to wonder why you are so determined

[Nihilist_santa]

Such wisdom on the emulator forums. Searching for the meaning of life? Search no further!

As an objective observer, you seem very determined to keep account trading / selling as an option.

We've all seen the bard swarm. You don't have to search for those difficult to find boring groups.

Since I don't buy into your reasoning, I have to wonder why you are so determined

Really Makes you Think doesnt it.

I mean if someone just wants to enjoy a level 60 then go play on EZ server and mess around with level 60s. This game isn't an economy sim, there is no EverQuest Tycoon so if all you are here for is some loseresque wall street action gtfo.

[citizen1080]

Really Makes you Think doesnt it.

I mean if someone just wants to enjoy a level 60 then go play on EZ server and mess around with level 60s. This game isn't an economy sim, there is no EverQuest Tycoon so if all you are here for is some loseresque wall street action gtfo.

Ack..some one with a differing opinion than mine?! RMT! WMDs! BURN HIM!!!

Eq players calling others losers...doesnt get much better than that.

[odiecat99]

here we go again.

[Nihilist_santa]

Struck a nerve did we? It wasn't addressed at you but lets just be honest if you are looking for an economy game there are better alternatives. I mean honestly who is going to miss toons who sit in EC all day spamming up the place? Come fight dragons or get out of the way. If your services actually improved the server we would not be having this conversation.

[citizen1080]

Struck a nerve did we? It wasn't addressed at you but lets just be honest if you are looking for an economy game there are better alternatives. I mean honestly who is going to miss toons who sit in EC all day spamming up the place? Come fight dragons or get out of the way. If your services actually improved the server we would not be having this conversation.

Lol

I fought my dragons years ago back on live. I did the hardcore raiding scene and enjoyed it. And guess what? I grew up, got a job, and actually have commitments outside video game. For me the next best thing to raiding was twinking characters and beating the s*** out of stuff. That is something that I should be able to do if I choose to do and playing in the economy is the best way to get the money to do that.

I don't tell you how to play the game. Who are you to tell us how to play it?

[odiecat99]

Struck a nerve did we? It wasn't addressed at you but lets just be honest if you are looking for an economy game there are better alternatives. I mean honestly who is going to miss toons who sit in EC all day spamming up the place? Come fight dragons or get out of the way. If your services actually improved the server we would not be having this conversation.

sounds pretty lame to me.

its EC.

That's why we goto EC.

TO spam and sell items.

Why is this a problem?

I ignore the people who truly spam and act like dickweeds.

just sayin

[Stinkum]

For me the next best thing to raiding was twinking characters and beating the s*** out of stuff. That is something that I should be able to do if I choose to do and playing in the economy is the best way to get the money to do that.

#1 - I don't really care about someone twinking alts, isn't this thread supposed to be about account buying/selling?

#2 - Don't be retarded. If you think rampant account selling/buying only affects you and only you then jeez you are thick.

[Barkingturtle]

Struck a nerve did we? It wasn't addressed at you but lets just be honest if you are looking for an economy game there are better alternatives. I mean honestly who is going to miss toons who sit in EC all day spamming up the place? Come fight dragons or get out of the way. If your services actually improved the server we would not be having this conversation.

The tunnel is the most unique feature of P99. Really, no one should be playing here unless their main interest is tunnelquesting, because there are literally hundreds of games that do everything else EQ does better, but there is only one tunnel.

This whole argument boils down to sour grapes. People get jealous when they see others spending more plat than they themselves have, and accumulating things they can't have. Maybe you indigent folks should play the game as it is rather than demanding changes simply because you can't control your own greed impulses.

[Swish]

Really Makes you Think

forum ban?

[Barkingturtle]

Reported.

[Nihilist_santa]

Barkingturtle, this has nothing to do with jealousy. You want to side track the issue and make it about that. This has to do with the game. You know outside of EC tunnel where people kill things and advance their character. How do up and coming toons get a chance at content when the guilds can jut buy the accounts they need and can exclude others from content? Who do they group with? What about the players who come here and leave due to the COMPLETLY non classic EC tunnel account trades. Someone sees this and they immediately think pay to win which has ruined plenty of other games.

[Lyra]

This whole argument boils down to sour grapes. People get jealous when they see others spending more plat than they themselves have, and accumulating things they can't have. Maybe you indigent folks should play the game as it is rather than demanding changes simply because you can't control your own greed impulses.

Nope.

Just noticing some odd reactions, and commenting.

Your reaction here is quite strong, by the way.

[odiecat99]

I don't tell you how to play the game. Who are you to tell us how to play it?

well put

[Gunga]

terrible idea, would end up with a lower population

plenty of people get tired of their 60 whatever and want to play another class, so they can sell/trade for a more desirable class to play.

without account trading/selling a lot of people would simply stop playing because not everyone has the time/energy to re-lvl a completely new class to 60.

This exactly. Better roll a solo class or get used to sitting with that LFG tag on at mid to high levels.

[Nihilist_santa]

Yeah there you go, someone says something you don't like have them banned. You must have some strong points to support your side.

[Lyra]

forum ban?

If that results in a forum ban, then my pictionary post would result in mine.

[Barkingturtle]

Barkingturtle, this has nothing to do with jealousy. You want to side track the issue and make it about that. This has to do with the game. You know outside of EC tunnel where people kill things and advance their character.

Again, you're defining the "game" for everyone else. As I said, the tunnel is the single feature that makes classic EQ unique. Go play another game if your primary focus isn't the tunnel.



How do up and coming toons get a chance at content when the guilds can jut buy the accounts they need and can exclude others from content? Who do they group with? What about the players who come here and leave due to the COMPLETLY non classic EC tunnel account trades. Someone sees this and they immediately think pay to win which has ruined plenty of other games.

I'm not gonna kid you--I've been here since day one and I do not care about new people as much as I value the established folks who have been here for years and have proved they will be in the future. If a newb is so easily dissuaded from playing they should probably be playing a different game, anyway. One without a tunnel.

[Gunga]

Struck a nerve did we? It wasn't addressed at you but lets just be honest if you are looking for an economy game there are better alternatives. I mean honestly who is going to miss toons who sit in EC all day spamming up the place? Come fight dragons or get out of the way. If your services actually improved the server we would not be having this conversation.

Who is going to miss the EC sellers spamming up the place? The same pussbags that whined when Sony put the bazaar in the game.

[Barkingturtle]

If that results in a forum ban, then my pictionary post would result in mine.

Reported.

[Rhambuk]

Yes, newer players get items raiders want or are too lazy to get themselves. New players profit. Old player with plat to spare uses it. Win / win for all. old item costs will stay down for newbies due to how common they are and the fact that they themselves can camp it under a lot of circustances.

Using "its good to spread the wealth" is not a reason to keep account sales in place. It's an excuse.

SSB comes to mind, great helm everyone wants easy to camp if your a solo class. I remember it being a few hundred, now i think it goes for a few k? how is a new player that rolls a tank going to be able to afford that?

[Nihilist_santa]

Who is going to miss the EC sellers spamming up the place? The same pussbags that whined when Sony put the bazaar in the game.

I am not saying to do away with EC or the economy. Player accounts are not part of the economy. They were never intended to be used as such.

[odiecat99]

Who is going to miss the EC sellers spamming up the place? The same pussbags that whined when Sony put the bazaar in the game.

Bazaar was the beginning of the end.

Fuck the bazaar.

[Swish]

If that results in a forum ban, then my pictionary post would result in mine.

GMs threaten a ban on red for saying the magic 3 letters, or anything to do with mithril tunics that are runed...I don't see why it would be any different on the forum.

[Stinkum]

Why are we are now talking about banning EC tunnel people?

If people want to be complete and utter losers and sit in tunnel 24/7 to price gouge then let them. Shits classic.

The topic is account buying/selling.

[Stinkum]

Also, Swish confirmed insanely immersed in ForumQuesting.

Kid has quotes, .gifs, characters, links, and all kinds of shit in that sig. Changes his avatar/sig three times a week and makes like 40 posts a day, most of which are threatening to report people. Might be time to take a step back from the forum and get a day job, dogg.

[citizen1080]

Swish your sig is tripping me the fuck out

[Doors]

Swish your sig is tripping me the fuck out

[Barkingturtle]

SSB comes to mind, great helm everyone wants easy to camp if your a solo class. I remember it being a few hundred, now i think it goes for a few k? how is a new player that rolls a tank going to be able to afford that?

SSB used to be 500 plat before Kunark because lord was camped 24/7.

I've seen them for 1k in the past week, not several k.

New players are not entitled to the best twink gear on their first character. By the time someone could actually camp the SSB they could easily purchase one, though.

[Gadwen]

Again, you're defining the "game" for everyone else. As I said, the tunnel is the single feature that makes classic EQ unique. Go play another game if your primary focus isn't the tunnel.





I'm not gonna kid you--I've been here since day one and I do not care about new people as much as I value the established folks who have been here for years and have proved they will be in the future. If a newb is so easily dissuaded from playing they should probably be playing a different game, anyway. One without a tunnel.

Accounts were never allowed to be sold in EC tunnel. You are doing it wrong.

[Lyra]

The topic is account buying/selling.

Someone mentions the tunnel and now they can't focus.

[Swish]

Accounts were never allowed to be sold in EC tunnel. You are doing it wrong.

Not only did I screencap an account sale, but the seller was advertising it promoting the "IP exemption" it had...account sales go on all the time in EC chat :/

[Gadwen]

Not only did I screencap an account sale, but the seller was advertising it promoting the "IP exemption" it had...account sales go on all the time in EC chat :/

Well I was referring to his comment about it being the only unique thing about classic EQ. If you want a classic tunnel experience you can't be selling accounts, it didn't happen.

[Swish]

Oh fair point. I think people are pinning hopes on a timeline server being released after Velious, maybe a "v2.0 server" would right all the wrongs... although different people want different things :/

[Nihilist_santa]

Still waiting on a valid support for account trades/sales. So far we have heard that it infringes on the right of others to break the game. We have also heard how it is the only way someone who is bored with the game can still manage to log in. Am I missing anything?

[Barkingturtle]

Someone mentions the tunnel and now they can't focus.

Oh sure. Now it's not enough for you to attempt to control how I enjoy the game--you need to dictate my forumquesting, too. Fascist!


Still waiting on a valid support for account trades/sales. So far we have heard that it infringes on the right of others to break the game. We have also heard how it is the only way someone who is bored with the game can still manage to log in. Am I missing anything?

You're missing a sincere desire to hear those opposing views. You're also eviedntly lacking the platinum required to enjoy the game the same way I do. I don't hate you for that. <3

[Dirtnap]

Nilbog stated in the past that they don't care about the number of players, he just wants P99 to be an honest recreation of classic EQ.

Account sales are not classic, the sale of accounts was a ban-able offense.

The argument keeps being raised on the side of keeping account sales that it would be taking away their fun, but this server isn't meant to be a "Fun server", this is supposed to be CLASSIC.

[Barkingturtle]

Ban fun, imo.

[Gadwen]

Still waiting on a valid support for account trades/sales. So far we have heard that it infringes on the right of others to break the game. We have also heard how it is the only way someone who is bored with the game can still manage to log in. Am I missing anything?

You forgot about the entire server quitting.

[citizen1080]

Ban fun, imo.

This

[Lyra]

Oh sure. Now it's not enough for you to attempt to control how I enjoy the game--you need to dictate my forumquesting, too. Fascist!


You assume I am against account trading.

I was making observations and weighing arguments.

Seriously, I don't care about account trading at this point. I log in. I have fun. When I don't have fun, I log out.

I'm always interested in extending my fun. I'm reading here to determine if changing the rules regarding account trading would do that.

[Stinkum]

I find two-boxing to be fun and wish they allowed it here. It's not about what you personally find fun. It's what the server devs want.. and they've said quite clearly that account selling is going the way of the Dodo as soon as the first way they find out how to ban it.

Enjoy it while it lasts.

/Thread.

[Swish]

Nilbog stated in the past that they don't care about the number of players, he just wants P99 to be an honest recreation of classic EQ.

Account sales are not classic, the sale of accounts was a ban-able offense.

The argument keeps being raised on the side of keeping account sales that it would be taking away their fun, but this server isn't meant to be a "Fun server", this is supposed to be CLASSIC.

Can't take you seriously with the top line of your sig Dirtnap... have you tried playing 1 on each server simultaneously yet?

[xCry0x]

What's the difference? The difference is still time. It takes time to power-level a character to 40. The person on the recieving end must be present and active, and the person providing the service must act as well. Additionally, power-leveledd person at 40 still has the hardest and longest part of the game to level and complete - 40 to 60. This means his or her reputation and things they do from that point forward are still of substancial value. This holds true even if someone is Powerleveled from 1 to 60. It would still take a lot of time to get there - you'd go to dungeons, interact with groups, other people, and camp named mobs for possible loot. Thus, the powerleveled individual is still earning a reputation, either good or bad.

The issue here isn't "distribution of wealth" at all. We already know that anyone with the proper time (interesting how there's a corrolation between time and growth in eq, eh?) and knowledge can make mountains of plat in EC tunnel in a relatively short amount of time, or by camping the proper mob drops for sale, or by getting in good with a guild and selling stuff that gets replaced. To bring in account sales as a means of making the plat available to anyone is a justification only, not a legitimate reason to keep it around.

Is your entire case against selling accounts based on having people who appear at level 60 without any social network or reputation?

I find it hard to believe that anyone is going to walk into the server and buy a level 60 account unless they RMT, which in that case RMT is the issue not buying accounts with plat.

Now if you think someone is going to log into the server and have their friend hand them a lvl 60 account, well that is never going to get caught unless we only allow 1 ip per account which would 1) be unmanageable 2) make people who play from home & work unable to do so.

If you think it is about time, there are multiple PL services who can get you to lvl 50 in a few days if you have the money. Spending the 'time' to sit in get pl is probably easier than spending the 'time' farming the 50-60k it would cost to buy a lvl 50 account.

When I was leveling up I kept asking all the 'rich' people how they made money, 9/10 times it was someone who had leveled to mid 50s, sold their account and re-rolled a twink or someone who had a 60 main and leveled up alts to sell. If this is taken out of the game now then all the new players are essentially short changed a way a large amount of others have used to make money.

I just feel like this goes into the long list of things that people have been abusing since the server was created, yeah it should have never existed in the first place but removing it now only hurts new players as others have made millions abusing it already. If that is what everyone wants, awesome. I just feel like everyone is doing what the masses typically do and jump to some illogical conclusion because on the surface it makes sense.

[Swish]

It was no different on live. If you were there on Day 1 you had an advantage compared to starting from scratch 2 years later. Granted the inflation won't be exactly the same here but as someone who doesn't have much to his name for 2.5 years on the box (not a plat hoarder) I can say that I'd enjoy starting now and not worry what the rest of the server is doing.

If people came here for a classic experience, they won't want to be twinked out and helped, will they? Otherwise, any help they get is a bonus, and while it won't close the gap on those at the top of the pyramid they can enjoy the levelling experience for what it is.

Don't want to play with twinked out players with more gear than brains? Roll a solo class, or start your own groups...pick and choose who you want.

The game is what you make of it, the only protest is coming from people that aren't at the top of the plat mountain and wish they were. So what if you have 6 manastones and 10 fungis? Having more than 1 won't affect anything in terms of levelling and raiding.

[orsk]

No, the final point here is that the devs are working on banning account sales.

I dont buy or sell accounts like some, and frankly they should have the choice to do whatsoever they want with accounts. I dont think this is an issue that should be controlled by anyone but the owners up the accounts, to do what ever they want with them. go spew you liberal cunt bullshit someplace else.

[Dirtnap]

Can't take you seriously with the top line of your sig Dirtnap... have you tried playing 1 on each server simultaneously yet?

I want to two-box and its the best way to have it heard. Making post after post about it would just irritate people, and wouldn't make a difference anyways. I did see your post about playing red and blue simultaneously, and its something I have done before. I play blue and mac though. (Haven't logged on blue in a while now.)

On topic: They changed pet exp, I don't think the way it is now is fun. Does that mean we get to turn it back? No, because its not classic.

EDIT: I think if people want to buy/sell accounts they should not be allowed to do it on the official forum, or in-game through OOC. It makes this server look like a joke.

[xCry0x]

The game is what you make of it, the only protest is coming from people that aren't at the top of the plat mountain and wish they were. So what if you have 6 manastones and 10 fungis? Having more than 1 won't affect anything in terms of levelling and raiding.

I have no dreams of being on top of plat mountain when i come to a server 4 years in or however long this has been up and running.

My issue is that just like people said there is no reason to KEEP account selling in I do not see what is fixed from removing it.

I am sure bards & druids will be more than happy if account selling stops because the demand to skip level 1-50 will still be there and people will just flock to pl in masses. This will result in all the noob areas being flooded with bards/druids stealing everything for plvl. Been to unrest lately? It blows 50% of the time because a single druid plvling walks in and pulls the entire house/basement.

It is not like if you remove account selling everyone will just magically start rolling untwinked alts and leveling them the old fashion way.

[Woahnelly]

the argument that people earned the money so they should be able to buy whatever they want is just silly. If people have a shit ton of plat and don't want to spend the time leveling a character to 60, then they should just roll a new character and have them pl'd.

As I said before: stopping account selling, or limiting it by 97%, is as easy as disallowing password changes.

[xCry0x]

Again, what is the purpose of removing selling accounts?

I'm just looking at this from a time investment point of view on the behalf of the devs/gms.

To police this is going to take a ton of time.. what is gained by putting the time into that vs developing content, fixing bugs and stopping rmt/hackers/etc.

[OMGWTF420]

theres accounts out there that are worth millions of plat, theres a shit ton of pp to be made by flipping accounts, you know the whole buy low/sell high thing, i'd wager alot of these accounts are being traded more often than they are actually being played. with that much pp at stake you can guarantee that people will fight tooth and nail to keep account trading alive. and as soon as it gets outlawed it will most likely go underground

[OMGWTF420]

Again, what is the purpose of removing selling accounts?



openly buying and selling accounts in the EC tunnel is not classic for starters

[Tecmos Deception]

It was no different on live. If you were there on Day 1 you had an advantage compared to starting from scratch 2 years later. Granted the inflation won't be exactly the same here but as someone who doesn't have much to his name for 2.5 years on the box (not a plat hoarder) I can say that I'd enjoy starting now and not worry what the rest of the server is doing.

If people came here for a classic experience, they won't want to be twinked out and helped, will they? Otherwise, any help they get is a bonus, and while it won't close the gap on those at the top of the pyramid they can enjoy the levelling experience for what it is.

Don't want to play with twinked out players with more gear than brains? Roll a solo class, or start your own groups...pick and choose who you want.

The game is what you make of it, the only protest is coming from people that aren't at the top of the plat mountain and wish they were. So what if you have 6 manastones and 10 fungis? Having more than 1 won't affect anything in terms of levelling and raiding.

Yep!

I mean, if our timeline followed live precisely, wouldn't we be past the end of Velious already? Instead of just being loaded with PP, the people who have been around and/or who play all the time would be decked in Velious raid gear and maybe starting to do custom content. The people who currently are upset that they can't farm enough PP at hill giants to buy a fungi for their first character on the server would just be complaining that there is no one leveling in the 1-50 levels because no one makes alts cause they were all playing 1 character to try to stick with the fast release of content or something.

[Gadwen]

I have no dreams of being on top of plat mountain when i come to a server 4 years in or however long this has been up and running.

My issue is that just like people said there is no reason to KEEP account selling in I do not see what is fixed from removing it.

I am sure bards & druids will be more than happy if account selling stops because the demand to skip level 1-50 will still be there and people will just flock to pl in masses. This will result in all the noob areas being flooded with bards/druids stealing everything for plvl. Been to unrest lately? It blows 50% of the time because a single druid plvling walks in and pulls the entire house/basement.

It is not like if you remove account selling everyone will just magically start rolling untwinked alts and leveling them the old fashion way.

People would still have to invest some time in a character to PL it to a decent level, buying accounts circumvents this. The main reason accounts are being sold isn't someone really really really really wants to play a certain class. They are being bought and sold for the most part because people have big piles of cash and can always find a use for a high level character, even if it just logs in every couple hours to check a raid target, or just ends up being a port/rez/buff bot.

What you are talking about has just as much potential to become a big issue with account selling when half the server or more has a 50+ druid to PL with. IMO your scenario is a bit exaggerated; however, the potential exists for something like that to occur either way.

[Gadwen]

As I said before: stopping account selling, or limiting it by 97%, is as easy as disallowing password changes.

That would have to be done on the EQEmu end I would think, and I wouldn't expect it to happen....ever.

[xCry0x]

openly buying and selling accounts in the EC tunnel is not classic for starters

http://i.imgur.com/ug3Yo.gif

[Thulack]

honestly i would wager that 1/3 of the "accounts" you see for sale are just accounts that have been bought/sold numerous times over a few month span. I'll admit i'm guilty of this cause well account trading is a good way to make plat. But i also voted that i am ok with it being banned and for the main reason of reputation. Reputation especially in a video game is really what makes you. Being able to buy/sell accounts makes wiping your bad rep away to easy. Yes people can PL a new toon but they have to be there and put in the work to do it which should be a just punishment. Those are just my 2 cents.

[xCry0x]

That would have to be done on the EQEmu end I would think, and I wouldn't expect it to happen....ever.

Nope.

The GM's would have to magically monitor it.

[xCry0x]

Yes people can PL a new toon but they have to be there and put in the work to do it which should be a just punishment. Those are just my 2 cents.

What the heck are you talking about? Are you aware of how fast people plvl?

Let me put this into context for you. Here are some pl success stories.

Bump for a great power level.

Took a naked ogre shaman from 1-19 in just a hair over 2 hours. He handles transport, a good weapon and all the details. You won't be disappointed. Scoop up this opportunity while it lasts!

As a mage, I went from 21 to 27 in two hours in kedge keep. Smooth, quick, easy, and great conversation. Would defiantly buy again!!


Recently had Capi PL an alt of mine from 30-49. took about 7-8 hours combined playing. Very happy with the results and the price was worth every copper

Given we skipped level 19-21 and 27-30 in this but there is basically level 1-49 with a total reported time of about 12 hours.

[Thulack]

What the heck are you talking about? Are you aware of how fast people plvl?

Let me put this into context for you. Here are some pl success stories.








Given we skipped level 19-21 and 27-30 in this but there is basically level 1-49 with a total reported time of about 12 hours.

yeah so thats about 12 hours there just to get to 49. say another 48 hours or so to get to 60(maybe and probably more). Thats a shitton of cash they are spending on the PL plus they actually have to sit there at the PC for 3 days of their lives. Its still a better punishment the handing over 200k that who knows where it came from.

[Infuriati]

As if your poll matters.

[Pringles]

Can we stop with the whole "its not classic" arguement? Hate to burst your bubble, but this server is not classic. Its the best "classic" EMU server we have, but its not classic.

[Swish]

http://i.imgur.com/ug3Yo.gif

http://i.imgur.com/ug3Yo.gif

http://i.imgur.com/ug3Yo.gif

[Nihilist_santa]

As if your poll matters.

You're right. :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by rahmani
Although nobody is willing to see this as a problem, the biggest problem is trading accounts.

I do. Coming soon.™

[Thulack]

That much dead horse beating i think is animal abuse :)

[Vega]

just an idea but couldn't they tie accounts to the IP address you used to create the account and only allow accounts to log in from said IP, require petitions to change your IP.... like if you move or something. not sure how well that would work and i really dont know shit about shit when it comes to these kinds of things but it seems like if they could put IP blocks up to prevent boxing they could do it for account traders

They couldn't use IPs, but they could use hardware IDs:

Other than that, the only information that is sent on a regular basis would be hardware ID's that we can use to distinguish your computer from anyone else's. This helps us deter two boxing and track down hackers, dupers, RMT, and etc even if they change their external IP address, which is a common occurance. These ID's are arbitrary and do not personally identify you in any way.

Atleast, I think they could based on what Rogean is saying is in the DLL. However, I am confused why they don't do this to enforce perma-bans. Perhaps there is a hangup with it.

[Dazen]

Should have done this from the start!!

[Dirtnap]

Can we stop with the whole "its not classic" arguement? Hate to burst your bubble, but this server is not classic. Its the best "classic" EMU server we have, but its not classic.

So the server should just stop becoming more and more classic, and just become custom.

[citizen1080]

I have no dreams of being on top of plat mountain when i come to a server 4 years in or however long this has been up and running.

My issue is that just like people said there is no reason to KEEP account selling in I do not see what is fixed from removing it.

I am sure bards & druids will be more than happy if account selling stops because the demand to skip level 1-50 will still be there and people will just flock to pl in masses. This will result in all the noob areas being flooded with bards/druids stealing everything for plvl. Been to unrest lately? It blows 50% of the time because a single druid plvling walks in and pulls the entire house/basement.

It is not like if you remove account selling everyone will just magically start rolling untwinked alts and leveling them the old fashion way.

Well said

[Nihilist_santa]

I have no dreams of being on top of plat mountain when i come to a server 4 years in or however long this has been up and running.

My issue is that just like people said there is no reason to KEEP account selling in I do not see what is fixed from removing it.

I am sure bards & druids will be more than happy if account selling stops because the demand to skip level 1-50 will still be there and people will just flock to pl in masses. This will result in all the noob areas being flooded with bards/druids stealing everything for plvl. Been to unrest lately? It blows 50% of the time because a single druid plvling walks in and pulls the entire house/basement.

It is not like if you remove account selling everyone will just magically start rolling untwinked alts and leveling them the old fashion way.

Ok so people use one zone to pl in and suddenly Norrath becomes nothing but bards and druids taking every mob in every noob zone? Give me a break talk about grasping at straws. It sounds to me like the only people in support of account trades and sales are people who don't want to play the game (level up a character). At least PL services are a legitimate and classic use of game time and plat unlike selling accounts. Also have you considered those getting PL in unrest might be doing so to profit from account sales?

[SirAlvarex]

I'm against account selling, if only because it's annoying to come back from a 3 month break and have half the "Welcome back!" conversations start with "Is this the real Muteki?" I mean it's gotten to the point where you can't associate a characters name to the person behind the monitor. And that kills the "classic" feel for me atleast.

I don't really care about the PL'ing nonsense. You wouldn't see that much more powerleveling honestly. Right now you can buy a level 50+ for 60k+ and "have it ready to go, just need gear". If it weren't possible to buy the toons, they'd just buy the gear and level him twink style either soloing or grouping. With some PL'ing thrown in for good measure I'm sure.

But it's not like every zone all of a sudden has 20 twinks with a Druid on a Leash.

[Stormhowl]

This whole argument boils down to sour grapes. People get jealous when they see others spending more plat than they themselves have, and accumulating things they can't have. Maybe you indigent folks should play the game as it is rather than demanding changes simply because you can't control your own greed impulses.

Wait what?

Really? You're going with this? Really!?
What is your basis for your claim that all people who don't approve of account buying/selling are just a bunch of greedy children who can't handle their own greedy impulses?

I can already tell you that you're wrong on at least one count. And I'm willing to bet money that I'm not the only one who disapproves of it for reasons you seem to be willfully excluding from your counter "argument".

[Rhambuk]

Ok so people use one zone to pl in and suddenly Norrath becomes nothing but bards and druids taking every mob in every noob zone? Give me a break talk about grasping at straws. It sounds to me like the only people in support of account trades and sales are people who don't want to play the game (level up a character). At least PL services are a legitimate and classic use of game time and plat unlike selling accounts. Also have you considered those getting PL in unrest might be doing so to profit from account sales?

youd really rather see plvlers than account sales? its going to more than unrest its going to be unrest, hhk, mm, kk, etc etc etc... sure not all the time but the second a druid and a noob walk into that zone it FUCKS everyone else there over. I dont care ive leveled before, it just sucks for new players trying to level because shit now they have to go around the world to a diff zone because this guy wants to plvl.

End account sales i dont care ive done mine and i have what i want, but you people thinking its going to help are dead wrong.

Dead Wrong

[Gel Mibson]

What research do you have that backs up your statement about a good portion of the voters not even playing the game? Please cite source.

Dunno how well versed you are in the forum community, but a lot of them are trolls who:

1. don't even play
2. post on multiple forum accounts

[raff01]

account selling results in people no longer making toons and thus no longer playing low or mid level zones.
I like a server where crushbone, splitpaw, upper guk, CoM, blackburrow, or the karanas are still populated...Not a server where 80% of the crowd thrives in KC / seb / SolB or lguk...

[Skope]

End account sales i dont care ive done mine and i have what i want, but you people thinking its going to help are dead wrong.

It won't be stopped just like RMT won't be stopped nor MQ/SEQ, but that doesn't mean you can't make gains on these fronts.

Account sales happened on live, but they most certainly didn't happen as openly nor as frequently as they do here. It was incredibly rare, in fact.

There are other aspects of this server that have a much bigger impact on the vast majority of players that aren't, but should be classic. Mobs not aggroing on pop is annoying as shit, the variance sucks balls, and corners/walls not breaking aggro (mostly social aggro) has been both frustrating and hilarious. Banning account sales would only make them as rare as they were on live and further the 'classicness' of Pee-nai-nai. But if you want to bring up the "it's not classic" argument, then you'd do well to look at the more glaring contradictions here.

[Rhambuk]

account selling results in people no longer making toons and thus no longer playing low or mid level zones.
I like a server where crushbone, splitpaw, upper guk, CoM, blackburrow, or the karanas are still populated...Not a server where 80% of the crowd thrives in KC / seb / SolB or lguk...

I agree but banning account sales isnt going to help that, the people that buy accounts have done their leveling multiple times, its not like if they cant buy an account theyre going to make a lvl 1 and level it.

banning sales will only increase powerleveling HURTING those lower level zones and new players. account sale ban will have detrimental affects, and i honestly dont see any plus at this point.

[Swish]

account selling results in people no longer making toons and thus no longer playing low or mid level zones.
I like a server where crushbone, splitpaw, upper guk, CoM, blackburrow, or the karanas are still populated...Not a server where 80% of the crowd thrives in KC / seb / SolB or lguk...

Been in Oasis lately?

[raff01]

I agree but banning account sales isnt going to help that, the people that buy accounts have done their leveling multiple times, its not like if they cant buy an account theyre going to make a lvl 1 and level it.

banning sales will only increase powerleveling HURTING those lower level zones and new players. account sale ban will have detrimental affects, and i honestly dont see any plus at this point.

Don't agree. Some will indeed do like you said and will resort to powerleveling.
But only the dire hard nerds.
Banning account sales is like banning guns. Countries where guns are banned still have people getting shot, but sure don't have as much as 1 ppl shot every minute like in the US.
Don't know if my point makes any sense...

[Gadwen]

I agree but banning account sales isnt going to help that, the people that buy accounts have done their leveling multiple times, its not like if they cant buy an account theyre going to make a lvl 1 and level it.

banning sales will only increase powerleveling HURTING those lower level zones and new players. account sale ban will have detrimental affects, and i honestly dont see any plus at this point.

Like I said to the last person to run with this idea. How is half the server eventually owning a 50+ druid going to be any different? Why keep buying characters when you can PL your own with a friend? As it is now there is a HUGE incentive to PL characters just to sell them, and I would go out on a limb to say that a good portion of those players would never bother with those characters if they didn't think it was going to make them rich selling it.

[Rhambuk]

Like I said to the last person to run with this idea. How is half the server eventually owning a 50+ druid going to be any different? Why keep buying characters when you can PL your own with a friend? As it is now there is a HUGE incentive to PL characters just to sell them, and I would go out on a limb to say that a good portion of those players would never bother with those characters if they didn't think it was going to make them rich selling it.

Ill agree that getting rid of sales will get rid of some of the rampant pling which may make things better for groups. I didnt take into account the people that plvl toons to sell /duh

I just dont want to see the exping get any harder for legitimate players as it is, personally id rather buy an account than spend a week plvling call it lazy but i dont like pulling an entire zone and starving a legitimate group out of exp.

[Swish]

The bottom line is that there's no point banning account sales on a server that's been live for this long... the problem, if its a problem, is here to stay.

If its banned, some people will still try to do it anyway. Big time account traders will still be known for dealing in such things and people will look to them in game (rather than on the forums) to see what the latest deals are.

Liken it to gambling in the real world. Illegal in the UK for decades but that didn't stop it, if people wanted to bet they'd do it :)

I would say that the GMs could be harder on powerlevellers taking over Kurns/Unrest/Mistmoore/etc during peak hours. If you're ruining the zone for groups who want to group legitimately then a GM should get involved with it.

[Rhambuk]

I would say that the GMs could be harder on powerlevellers taking over Kurns/Unrest/Mistmoore/etc during peak hours. If you're ruining the zone for groups who want to group legitimately then a GM should get involved with it.

I think this is true in any situation, if theres a legitimate group anyone that messes with it should be at least removed from the zone, especially bards RAGE OUT!!..

i know swarm kiting is insane exp and there are only a few zones where its viable, and though im for destroying outdoor exp zones forcing groups into dungeons, i really dont like how bards take an entire zone then kite it for 20-30 minutes before killing it.

I understand its the only way you can do it but it literally destroys that zone for anyone else trying to do any sort of actual exp.

[raff01]

I think this is true in any situation, if theres a legitimate group anyone that messes with it should be at least removed from the zone, especially bards RAGE OUT!!..

i know swarm kiting is insane exp and there are only a few zones where its viable, and though im for destroying outdoor exp zones forcing groups into dungeons, i really dont like how bards take an entire zone then kite it for 20-30 minutes before killing it.

I understand its the only way you can do it but it literally destroys that zone for anyone else trying to do any sort of actual exp.

I remember back in the classic days on live, there was something called the Play Nice Policy...And people who would do things such as not share certain spawns (IE camp the entire 6 ice giants in EverFrost) or ruin the zone like certain bards do in OT or DL would get punished by GM's.
People almost never did it because they knew they would risk being petitioned and that it would result in them being punished.

[Rhambuk]

I remember back in the classic days on live, there was something called the Play Nice Policy...And people who would do things such as not share certain spawns (IE camp the entire 6 ice giants in EverFrost) or ruin the zone like certain bards do in OT or DL would get punished by GM's.
People almost never did it because they knew they would risk being petitioned and that it would result in them being punished.

There is a "pnp"
but there are no punishments

[Uggme]

End account sales i dont care ive done mine and i have what i want

What a terrible attitude. Selfish, inconsiderate, childish.

I'm kinda surprised at this comment. It reveals a lot more about your stance than other comments have. This whole thread is supported by compelling reasons why account trading and selling should be banned for the betterment of the server. There's even a poll showing a majority of people on here showing support for stopping this behavior. When faced with the facts you finally act like a child who can't get candy 5 times a day any more. "I've got mine so I don't care any more!"

Not really sure what to say other than thanks for throwing in the towel, I suppose.

[Rhambuk]

What a terrible attitude. Selfish, inconsiderate, childish.

I'm kinda surprised at this comment. It reveals a lot more about your stance than other comments have. This whole thread is supported by compelling reasons why account trading and selling should be banned for the betterment of the server. There's even a poll showing a majority of people on here showing support for stopping this behavior. When faced with the facts you finally act like a child who can't get candy 5 times a day any more. "I've got mine so I don't care any more!"

Not really sure what to say other than thanks for throwing in the towel, I suppose.

I mightve posted in haste and definitely deserve being called out. its going to be removed no matter how hard i defend it and there are times when its like why even bother its getting pulled no matter what but yeah...

I've caught a few posters in here thatve done the same but didnt feel like pulling this into rnf =)

[skorge]

I voted no as well. I'm with Bob on this one. This also gives players something to spend their plat on.

Unfortunately I think the devs need to create another type of plat sink to totally get rid of some plat (something non-classic - face it p99's having kunark with no velious for 2+ years has thrown the economy off). At the same time still allow account sales/trades.

If Velious doesn't come out soon this economy will be so crazy. I was thinking about it yesterday. There will be so much plat on the server that items across the board will increase just because there is so much plat. The new 50k plat will be 100k plat if Velious doesn't come out soon. Velious will eliminate a lot of item/plat farming.

In conclusion if the devs know Velious won't be out for another 6-12 months they need to create a new non-classic plat sink. Maybe some type of unique vendor where players can spend plat on a no-drop item such as a Guise of Deceiver (im talking 250+k range plat) or other smaller items such as minor charms (i know charms arent classic but at this point something MUST be done).

[Rhambuk]

Velious will eliminate a lot of item/plat farming.

Just think what some of those velious droppables are going to sell for on day 1...

[Issues]

@ original topic.

Nope it isn't time. Players can still only play a single toon at a time. If boxing was allowed than that's the only reason I could see account trading effecting the server negatively.

If a guy wants to spend his plats on a lv 60 to park and check a raid target, someone that dedicated would surely level a toon to do so. Plats just takes out the time required. Which at the same time, I'm sure they spent earning the plat.

There is no issue here but an old server in the same Era for quite some time. People get bored with their characters and this is their option to play a new class without grinding all over again.

Furthermore, in the event account trading was made against the server rules, it would still occur, just black market style. The honest people would merely lose this option.

[sulpher01]

@ original topic.

Nope it isn't time. Players can still only play a single toon at a time. If boxing was allowed than that's the only reason I could see account trading effecting the server negatively.

If a guy wants to spend his plats on a lv 60 to park and check a raid target, someone that dedicated would surely level a toon to do so. Plats just takes out the time required. Which at the same time, I'm sure they spent earning the plat.

There is no issue here but an old server in the same Era for quite some time. People get bored with their characters and this is their option to play a new class without grinding all over again.

Furthermore, in the event account trading was made against the server rules, it would still occur, just black market style. The honest people would merely lose this option.

+1... holy shit a smart person in here...

[Swish]

Just think what some of those velious droppables are going to sell for on day 1...

What's that HS key part called? "Jade Chodikai Prod" or something? The first week of Kunark there was a guy in LOIO advertising it at 20k for a good while.

I hate to think what some of the "me first" pixels will sell for... people going to feel quite deflated with Velious I think in terms of the buy/sell market.

[Vexenu]

This thread has conclusively demonstrated that there are zero compelling arguments in favor of account selling. All we're hearing in its defense is things like:

"It's fun for me, don't ruin my fun."

"It's too late to ban it now."

"Account selling is a pp sink that reduces inflation on items."

"If it is banned it will just go underground."

"Without account selling, every zone will be taken over by PLers."

These arguments range from the selfish, to the inane to the absurd. It's patently obvious that the only people defending account selling are....wait for it...the people who have made a ton of plat from it! Who would have thought? No one wants to see their personal cash cow disappear.

A little intellectual honesty, though, please. If you're going to defend something, at least be straightforward as to your motive. In this case, the motive would be that it's an easy way for already rich players to make plat by flipping accounts. Secondarily, it's an easy way for lazy players to experience multiple classes as high levels.

But guess what? You're not entitled to an easy way to make plat. You're not entitled to play each class at a high level without leveling it yourself.

We're all here to play Everquest in a manner that's as close to the spirit of classic as possible. I'm sure that account selling has benefits to a small number of people who regularly engage in it, but it is far and away one of the least classic elements of the server, and one of the most destructive to the community experience. We gain a great deal more by banning it than we lose.

[Rhambuk]

What's that HS key part called? "Jade Chodikai Prod" or something? The first week of Kunark there was a guy in LOIO advertising it at 20k for a good while.

I hate to think what some of the "me first" pixels will sell for... people going to feel quite deflated with Velious I think in terms of the buy/sell market.

That was when kunark first came out and the most people had were probably a few hundred k. now with multiple people having multiple millions... I really cant imagine how insane everything velious will be.

[Rhambuk]

This thread has conclusively demonstrated that there are zero compelling arguments in favor of account selling. All we're hearing in its defense is things like:

"It's fun for me, don't ruin my fun."

"It's too late to ban it now."

"Account selling is a pp sink that reduces inflation on items."

"If it is banned it will just go underground."

"Without account selling, every zone will be taken over by PLers."

These arguments range from the selfish, to the inane to the absurd. It's patently obvious that the only people defending account selling are....wait for it...the people who have made a ton of plat from it! Who would have thought? No one wants to see their personal cash cow disappear.

A little intellectual honesty, though, please. If you're going to defend something, at least be straightforward as to your motive. In this case, the motive would be that it's an easy way for already rich players to make plat by flipping accounts. Secondarily, it's an easy way for lazy players to experience multiple classes as high levels.

But guess what? You're not entitled to an easy way to make plat. You're not entitled to play each class at a high level without leveling it yourself.

We're all here to play Everquest in a manner that's as close to the spirit of classic as possible. I'm sure that account selling has benefits to a small number of people who regularly engage in it, but it is far and away one of the least classic elements of the server, and one of the most destructive to the community experience. We gain a great deal more by banning it than we lose.

give me ONE REAL reason it should be banned, all ive heard from people are it should be banned because either they dont like it, or they believe its stopping people from leveling alts and harming exp groups which is nothing but personal opinion.

Where is the harm?

[stonez138]

Ok, finally a decent argument in favor of this. Banning account sales will probably make it less likely that we see cheaters succeed in the game because it will be harder for them to get back into the swing of things when their 60 gets banned. That makes sense.

Guy acts all smart yet it took him this long to realise this?

[Rhambuk]

There are an INSANE amount of accounts for sale today....

the only real issue i have is the anonymity of it, i believe if your going to sell an account you should A) have to make the post with your primary forum account, no first posters and B) have to list the name of the characters on the account.

Would cut down on the number of auctions when guilds see mains trying to sell characters..

[stonez138]

^^^

give me ONE REAL reason it should be banned, all ive heard from people are it should be banned because either they dont like it, or they believe its stopping people from leveling alts and harming exp groups which is nothing but personal opinion.

[Issues]

. Secondarily, it's an easy way for lazy players to experience multiple classes as high levels.

.

This line stuck out to me.

Not sure how a guy sitting in a chair playing a video game is more lazy for not wanting to spend weeks leveling another toon or simply having the platinum so he doesn't have to.

If anything, sitting in a chair, playing a video game is lazy and saving weeks of time leveling up another toon, might give you more time to not sit in a computer chair, playing a video game, being lazy.

Do rich people in real life do mundane activities or do they pay someone to do it for them?

Yeah I said real life since you brought up the word "lazy" when referring to the human body entertaining itself while in a stationary position accomplishing nothing else but self satisfaction.

[Vexenu]

give me ONE REAL reason it should be banned, all ive heard from people are it should be banned because either they dont like it, or they believe its stopping people from leveling alts and harming exp groups which is nothing but personal opinion.

Where is the harm?

I won't give you one. I'll give you eight, which I posted on page 5 of this thread:



1) It eliminates the importance of reputation, since a banned player can simply buy a new account
2) Encourages cheating, for the same reason
3) Turns the raid scene into a farce that is largely based on accumulating accounts and camping them out at raid targets
4) Artificially de-populates the lower levels of the game since fewer people level alts, which hurts new players
5) Contributes to the top-heavy nature of the server since accounts don't necessarily leave when players do
6) Is a major conduit for RMT, and is much more difficult to detect since suspicious in-game transfers don't need to take place
7) Artificially increases the demand and market price of mid to high-end gear, since it is being constantly bought and sold to outfit stripped chars people purchased
8) Eliminates feelings of community since character/player identities are so transient and ultimately meaningless

[Rhambuk]

^^^

i just dont like it, it doesnt change anything other than you know more about the sale.

[Noselacri]

People will do it anyway, it'll just create more work for the admins if they have to investigate a bunch of cases. You could pretty much eliminate account selling if you gave the server its own login structure like The Sleeper did and made it so you can't change account passwords (or made it an arduous process like IP exemptions are). Nobody would buy an account that they can't change the password for.

[Vexenu]

This line stuck out to me.

Not sure how a guy sitting in a chair playing a video game is more lazy for not wanting to spend weeks leveling another toon or simply having the platinum so he doesn't have to.

If anything, sitting in a chair, playing a video game is lazy and saving weeks of time leveling up another toon, might give you more time to not sit in a computer chair, playing a video game, being lazy.

Do rich people in real life do mundane activities or do they pay someone to do it for them?

Yeah I said real life since you brought up the word "lazy" when referring to the human body entertaining itself while in a stationary position accomplishing nothing else but self satisfaction.

"Mundane activities?"

If you call playing Everquest a "mundane activity", then why exactly are you even playing in the first place?

If you don't enjoy the game, don't play it. Leveling a character is not a mundane activity in EQ, it is the core of the game experience. Yes, you can obviously do other things like trade, raid, tradeskill, quest and socialize, but all of those other aspects of the game are peripheral to leveling. They exist either to facilitate leveling or as a consequence of leveling. This is Everquest. The destination IS the journey.

The point is that you aren't entitled to play a high level character without leveling it yourself. It's entirely unclassic and has ruinous side effects on the community.

[Rhambuk]

"Mundane activities?"

If you call playing Everquest a "mundane activity", then why exactly are you even playing in the first place?

If you don't enjoy the game, don't play it. Leveling a character is not a mundane activity in EQ, it is the core of the game experience. Yes, you can obviously do other things like trade, raid, tradeskill, quest and socialize, but all of those other aspects of the game are peripheral to leveling. They exist either to facilitate leveling or as a consequence of leveling. This is Everquest. The destination IS the journey.

The point is that you aren't entitled to play a high level character without leveling it yourself. It's entirely unclassic and has ruinous side effects on the community.

I doubt theres anyone buying an account that hasnt leveled at least one character, where would they have the money...

if theyve leveled 1 2 3 4..some people here have legitimately levled 5+ lvl 60 characters. at this point if they just want to raid i think they have earned the right to just skip the leveling process if they want.

[Issues]

"Mundane activities?"

If you call playing Everquest a "mundane activity", then why exactly are you even playing in the first place?

If you don't enjoy the game, don't play it. Leveling a character is not a mundane activity in EQ, it is the core of the game experience. Yes, you can obviously do other things like trade, raid, tradeskill, quest and socialize, but all of those other aspects of the game are peripheral to leveling. They exist either to facilitate leveling or as a consequence of leveling. This is Everquest. The destination IS the journey.

The point is that you aren't entitled to play a high level character without leveling it yourself. It's entirely unclassic and has ruinous side effects on the community.

Unless someone has RMT'd...then they have already level'd up a character experiencing all you have listed above. This is how they have the platinum to buy an account. Repeating this more than once, twice etc...could be considered Mundane by the definition of the word.

I can tell by your tone though how strongly you feel about your stance on this subject, I'll agree to disagree because forum arguing really isn't my thing.

[Vexenu]

I doubt theres anyone buying an account that hasnt leveled at least one character, where would they have the money...


http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa179/godzzillla/1311379042454.gif

[Swish]

I'd never have been able to kit my cleric if I hadn't sold my SK (Brik)/enchanter (Swish) account on blue.

Apparently Swish can be seen online sometimes, it isn't me anymore but I do hold the name on red :)

[Rhambuk]

so much rmt paranoia

its not going to stop it, instead of buying an account theyll buy plat and plvl a char to 60. not level it by traditional means, they wont be grouping with players theyll be taking all the mobs. Not all cases all the time but it will happen more frequently than it does now.

Id rather see a banned player/rmt skip all that and go straight to raiding than screwing up with our low level population of people trying to enjoy the game.

[Nihilist_santa]

The people who say banning account sales/trades will force it to go underground are forgetting that once people are aware that this activity is a bannable offense the server will begin to self report/police people who buy those accounts. Its not like people cant tell when their friend stops playing and the toon logs on and acts different or has a different vent voice etc.

True a black market will develop but the impact will be much lower than it presently is and most account sales/trades will be confined to the top guilds procuring items/alts for raid spawns.

[Nocte]

if theyve leveled 1 2 3 4..some people here have legitimately levled 5+ lvl 60 characters. at this point if they just want to raid i think they have earned the right to just skip the leveling process if they want.

This sense of entitlement is the root of this argument. I have a level 60 cleric, and I'm leveling a rogue in my spare time. If I want to play a shaman, I should have to level that shaman. The reward for my work would simply be the level 60 shaman. The reward for my time investment on my cleric has been my level 60 cleric (and sure, some plat to gear up my rogue). I don't think I should feel entitled to an entire spectrum of classes because I've leveled a few on my own.

[raff01]

give me ONE REAL reason it should be banned, all ive heard from people are it should be banned because either they dont like it, or they believe its stopping people from leveling alts and harming exp groups which is nothing but personal opinion.

Where is the harm?

Its supposed to be classic EQ. trading account was banned back then. buying an account to get your shaman to 60 isn't how EQ's supposed to be played.
There you go for one good reasons. Thousand more good reason as well.
Now give me 1 good reason NOT to ban.

[raff01]

This sense of entitlement is the root of this argument. I have a level 60 cleric, and I'm leveling a rogue in my spare time. If I want to play a shaman, I should have to level that shaman. The reward for my work would simply be the level 60 shaman. The reward for my time investment on my cleric has been my level 60 cleric (and sure, some plat to gear up my rogue). I don't think I should feel entitled to an entire spectrum of classes because I've leveled a few on my own.

Exactly !
Taking that logic into account, I could just as well say I've played 8 different MMORPG's and taken over 20 chars to max level, taken a char to lvl 70 back on live so that should give me the right to skip leveling now...absolutely the lamest kind of logic i've heard.

[Rhambuk]

Its supposed to be classic EQ. trading account was banned back then. buying an account to get your shaman to 60 isn't how EQ's supposed to be played.
There you go for one good reasons. Thousand more good reason as well.
Now give me 1 good reason NOT to ban.

not how it was meant to be is a poor reason look at variance etc.

and i havent seen one piece of real evidence that it was a bannable offense just people saying it used to be. people have posted they knew account sellers i id bck in 2000. he term ebayer became famous fro eq account sales.

why not? increase in the number of power levelers meaning less exp spots for new or anyone that wants to exp in a popular pl dungeon.

[Rhambuk]

Exactly !
Taking that logic into account, I could just as well say I've played 8 different MMORPG's and taken over 20 chars to max level, taken a char to lvl 70 back on live so that should give me the right to skip leveling now...absolutely the lamest kind of logic i've heard.

no one has mentioned anything about other mmos time invested only time investsd on p99

[raff01]

no one has mentioned anything about other mmos time invested only time investsd on p99

just using the same logic to show how its invalid. Time spent on one toon should not entitle you to skipping the leveling of other toons.
Simple as that.

[Rhambuk]

just using the same logic to show how its invalid. Time spent on one toon should not entitle you to skipping the leveling of other toons.
Simple as that.

not even close to what anyone is saying. in p99 yes. your argument about oher games is completely moot and you obviously dont understand the logic yoir attaking

[raff01]

not even close to what anyone is saying.

if theyve leveled 1 2 3 4..some people here have legitimately levled 5+ lvl 60 characters. at this point if they just want to raid i think they have earned the right to just skip the leveling process if they want.

[Rhambuk]

on my mobile so forgive errors and premature posts. read again ;)

[Gwence]

vast majority of RMT transactions are small platinum sales, and there's really no way to police it

can ban account sales all you want, won't stop RMT's.

it's consensual by both parties, not sure why anyone cares about it honestly.

[Hawala]

What I can't get over is the incredibly low price of accounts.

100k for a lvl 55 Wizard? What!?

No thanks, I'd rather farm 1 fungi tunic.

[Rhambuk]

What I can't get over is the incredibly low price of accounts.

100k for a lvl 55 Wizard? What!?

No thanks, I'd rather farm 1 fungi tunic.

Some people don't have the time to sit at one camp for hours on end, just a few hours here and there to level up. Used to be a great way for casuals to make money but screw them right? back to farming seafuries to try and save for that fungi. If only people could play the way they wanted....

not aiming at you just using fungi example =p

[Tecmos Deception]

What I can't get over is the incredibly low price of accounts.

100k for a lvl 55 Wizard? What!?

No thanks, I'd rather farm 1 fungi tunic.

I know that every account I've ever sold I sold because I didn't want to play the characters on that account anymore. I assume that is how it goes for most people.

Of course the time invested to level anything from 1-50 is worth more, in terms of "farming time at level 60," than the sale price of the account. But you've already invested the time into that account and you aren't going to use it anymore, so you might as well get something out of it.

[Nihilist_santa]

I know that every account I've ever sold I sold because I didn't want to play the characters on that account anymore. I assume that is how it goes for most people.

Of course the time invested to level anything from 1-50 is worth more, in terms of "farming time at level 60," than the sale price of the account. But you've already invested the time into that account and you aren't going to use it anymore, so you might as well get something out of it.

What you get out of it is a level 60 character and all of the content items and abilities that come with it. Maybe you would not be so bored with the account or find no use for it if it were not so easy to just obtain another max level toon. It teaches you to appreciate your character.

[orsk]

man where is that Fee AoN thread when you need it...

[Rhambuk]

man where is that Fee AoN thread when you need it...

...... good job

[Droog007]

IMHO ... if you've grown tired of building your own characters and reputations in EverQuest, there are many, many other games you can be playing.

Frankly, many of you need to move on - you're strangling the server.

You won - you beat EQ. Woot!

[OMGWTF420]

couldn't account selling get you banned on live?

[falkun]

couldn't account selling get you banned on live? Yes, but it was only enforced so far as keeping people from /auction-ing their character off in-game. The term "ebayer" was coined directly from players purchasing high level accounts they had no idea how to play in EQ1. RMT happened, but picking up the subscription cost made it prohibitively expensive to own the multitudes of accounts people have here.

[OMGWTF420]

ya thats pretty much how i remember it.

[Barkingturtle]

What you get out of it is a level 60 character and all of the content items and abilities that come with it. Maybe you would not be so bored with the account or find no use for it if it were not so easy to just obtain another max level toon. It teaches you to appreciate your character.


Appreciate my character? Hahahaha. That's such a puerile sentiment--this romantic notion that what you do in EQ has some sort of existential meaning.

I've got news for you: all characters are just vehicles for me to have fun--and I appreciate them as such. I'm not learning any valuable life lessons by leveling another character. There is no honor in grinding and grinding and grinding--it's just what you tell yourself to make yourself feel morally superior. In my opinion the righteously indignant take this video game a bit too seriously.

[OMGWTF420]

Appreciate my character? Hahahaha. That's such a puerile sentiment--this romantic notion that what you do in EQ has some sort of existential meaning.

I've got news for you: all characters are just vehicles for me to have fun--and I appreciate them as such. I'm not learning any valuable life lessons by leveling another character. There is no honor in grinding and grinding and grinding--it's just what you tell yourself to make yourself feel morally superior. In my opinion the righteously indignant take this video game a bit too seriously.

u need to step your immersion levels up bro