Going Red (PVP)

[HippoNipple]

Are there any downsides to going red besides being attackable by other red players?

I heard someone say something about not being able to be healed/buffed by blues and was wondering if that is true.

[HippoNipple]

Someone else confirmed this and it makes sense to me.. if there were two reds fighting you wouldn't want a blue to be healing one of them with no risk themselves.... which is a bummer because a little pvp would be fun but you are basically gimping yourself therefor no one will ever do it.

What would be interesting is if there was a red guild out there, maybe even an alt guild, so the reds would have people to level with. It would also bring loyalty to members since everyone would be stuck with that group. They would obviously be the dominant pvp force and be a tight group since group wise they would be stuck with each other.

[Taxi]

They could try to go hybrid pvp but i dont know if they want to take it there and how much of a hassle it is to code. Like if you heal a red and youre blue, you become red for 5mins.

They should also make a post about pvp to facilitate people who wanna go down that road.

For example, do you lose xp when you die, can your opponent loot you? Only coins or? Whats the lvl difference to engage for pvp? Etc.

A simple FAQ like this could go a long way toward helping some players make the decision to have a red alt or not.

[Haynar]

Maybe we can make Kunark interesting. Give you a live 2 week preview, before official release. Except. Make it PVP.

Ok, only my idea. And my views are usually not entirely, but almost sometimes, out of line with managements.

Haynar

[HippoNipple]

Well as far as I know nothing happens when you die to a red, just like a duel on this server.

I wasn't talking about adding in any code or changing the game, but just creating a red guild with the current rules. It would be interesting to have a guild pledge loyalty that way - cause they would have no alternative. Would be a fun alt guild to be a part of. Guild events pvping against each other could be pretty fun. There are other things I am interested in like raiding and expansions to come, just saying it would be a fun alt guild to play around with. I doubt the guild would ever grow or be dedicated enough to dominate pve as well... but who knows.

[Taxi]

Well as far as I know nothing happens when you die to a red, just like a duel on this server.

I wasn't talking about adding in any code or changing the game, but just creating a red guild with the current rules. It would be interesting to have a guild pledge loyalty that way - cause they would have no alternative. Would be a fun alt guild to be a part of. Guild events pvping against each other could be pretty fun. There are other things I am interested in like raiding and expansions to come, just saying it would be a fun alt guild to play around with. I doubt the guild would ever grow or be dedicated enough to dominate pve as well... but who knows.

Thats probably the only thing that would make me play again beside kunark.

[rioisk]

I suggest 2nd server for PvP. My guess is at least the 1/4 the pop would go to it.

[HippoNipple]

Well then the problem with that is both populations are low and twice the work for the moderators. I don't think its possible to really change or ad a server. Having one community split in half and feed off each other would be a bad thing.

I think the players could put in a little effort and do something with the classic rules and server we have. If there was a red guild out there that was a serious force, it would automatically make a bit of competition between blue/red for status, spawns, position.

If there were any reds that were kicked out of the guild for bad behavior they would basically be kos by the guild, there would be true loyalty and trust in the guild for that reason. It would just be a good atmosphere for a guild. Who knows maybe there would be another vision and a split between the guild, making two red guilds that went for each other.... tons of potential for some fun on a blue server... making it a pvp server on our own for those who enjoy it.

I really think it woudl take off with a good group of players.

[rioisk]

Twice the work for moderators? PvP don't need moderators

[HippoNipple]

Well you have to admit some thought and work would have to go into it.. creating another server takes resources.. and would hurt the current population that the creaters put time into.

[Smuuglie]

Maybe we can make Kunark interesting. Give you a live 2 week preview, before official release. Except. Make it PVP.

Ok, only my idea. And my views are usually not entirely, but almost sometimes, out of line with managements.

Haynar

WITH PERMANENT DEATH! HAR AHR HAR

[Smuuglie]

Organising something like the SATURDAY NIGHT PVP FEVER would be cool

[HippoNipple]

lol ughh.. nevermind

[Haynar]

As much whining, etc., goes on concerning named in PoHate, Fear, Solb, etc., I always thought the solution for when 2 or 3 guilds start bitchin about who got 15 first ... who should get the named ... blah, no we had 15 first, the account I was boxing .... err, my brother went LD, then we had 14 when you looked ... blah blah ... Abacab was training us .... the corpse poofed ... oh he ninja looted ... blah blah blah.

Solution ... toggle PVP on for the zone. You die, you cannot zone back in for 30 minutes.

There, problem solved.

Damn, someone must have put piss and vinegar in my drink tonight.

Haynar

[rioisk]

I agree Haynar, that's the best possible solution to solve it all.

[HippoNipple]

Yeah but unfortunately there are people who don't like pvp.. and they dominate the majority of the population. Thats why the only way to keep the population up and have pvp is for the players to do it themselves. Starting 1 red raid worthy guild could have a domino effect. Especially if another superior blue guild saw them taking their spawns and were sick of it.. and wanted to retaliate, maybe entice them to go red and kos the red guild.

[Nen]

As much whining, etc., goes on concerning named in PoHate, Fear, Solb, etc., I always thought the solution for when 2 or 3 guilds start bitchin about who got 15 first ... who should get the named ... blah, no we had 15 first, the account I was boxing .... err, my brother went LD, then we had 14 when you looked ... blah blah ... Abacab was training us .... the corpse poofed ... oh he ninja looted ... blah blah blah.

Solution ... toggle PVP on for the zone. You die, you cannot zone back in for 30 minutes.

There, problem solved.

Damn, someone must have put piss and vinegar in my drink tonight.

Haynar

I love this idea. :)

[Braelyn]

I say just allow blues and reds to heal/buff each other when they're grouped up. That way reds can actually play the game and also be able to pk, while blues won't have to participate in pvp.

[Phallax]

I say just allow blues and reds to heal/buff each other when they're grouped up. That way reds can actually play the game and also be able to pk, while blues won't have to participate in pvp.

To easy to abuse as a blue healer, unless the "turn red for 5mins after healing/buffing a red" option was in effect.

[azxten]

To easy to abuse as a blue healer, unless the "turn red for 5mins after healing/buffing a red" option was in effect.

Even then imagine a complete heal landing on someone and turning the healer red, not gonna matter much after a long fight where you're almost dead. PvP will never work on this server outside of special settings like contests, etc. The closest I think it'll come would be "instances" of zones for specific level ranges to queue up for PvP or something like 1-20, 20-40, 40-50. No rewards other than bragging rights.

Now that I think about it an always on PvP zone might be nice with level ranges. Like say you're 1-20 you can always get teleported to some zone where FFA PvP takes place. This kind of "hang out" environment would be more organic and thus fun for this type of server imo and it would give the high level guilds something else to fight about. Large open zones would work best and possible random teleportation into the zone.

That's my vision anyway.

[Frighteous]

Hello. Being that it's my first post, let me say what a good job I think the SysOPs have done with the game, I never expected a server so well-run with such a large population.

My PVP experience on Everquest is limited to Discord, which was an eq classic ffa pvp server (ding 6 you are fair game, FFA) but what made the server great, and what also killed it though was it's ruleset. When you'd die here, you'd get reset to level one, doesn't matter if you were PK'd or a mob killed you, one guildy I knew fell through the world in Ak Anon (was either greyrage or awakened) and he got reset to lvl 1. That was some serious nerdrage in teamspeak when that happened, you wouldn't imagine the kind of nerdrage that emerges from permadeath eqclassic experiences. Two things that illustrate it, I feel are the cursing and the silence. There's silence, then cursing. Then more silence, then more cursing, etc.

Which is why so many people left that server after the first and second week.

But let me tell you, that first and second week was intense. Every newbie area filled with people. I'm talking 40, 50, 60 people in every newbie zone. Fresh 6's getting hit by pain and suffering at the zoneline who didn't realize at 6 they became fair game, and decided to group with this level 7 who 'Seemed like a nice fellow player' only when you zone out of the city, the same guy stabs you in the back, and loots your corpse. At level six you become pvp active, people who weren't in guilds were dinging 6 and dying instantly by people watching them level up from afar. Crushbone was a good place to go kill newbs, I managed to get a Wizard up to 33 and got PK'd by a Beastlord right outside Crushbone. When that character got reset I leveled a Magician to 34.
All gnomes. Loot all, and a 2x xp bonus, so leveling wasn't particularly horrible. It's really a shame, it was the most fun I've ever had with an MMORPG. Yet, I know if someone made something like it today, the population would be weak. GM Events with a PVP theme would be interesting, it would be nice to see Gnomes teaming up vs Humans. Dark Elves killing gnomes.



-Frighteous
11 Troll Shadowknight

[HippoNipple]

Well it seems like everyone is trying to come up with ways to change the current server rules to come up with a way that pvp will work. Even making it so blues became red for 5 minutes would be exploited like mentioned above. It wouldn't work. Trying to come up with ideas or rules to make pvp work is just dreaming, it will never actually be implemented.

There could be some interesting PvP if there was an organized guild that turned red with the current rules. As long as they were organized and self sufficient enough to not need to group outside of their guild, it would work. Like I mentioned earlier this would force loyalty to the guild... and if there ever happened to be another red guild out there it would be a ton of fun.

This allows the blues to be blues, and not interfere with any of the Red pvp. They could coexist. If a blue and a red were at the same camp, they would follow server camping rules. If a red met another red, they could fight over it.

Even if there was only 1 red guild the guild would be able to have some creative fun guild events within the guild.

The only thing that might need to be implemented are some guidelines on pvp etiquette like not returning to a pvp fight for 30 minutes after death, or having to leave the zone after death. This could be enforced as current camping/raiding rules are enforced.

[Lowlife]

Who wants to start a guild of red alts with me?

[Braelyn]

To easy to abuse as a blue healer, unless the "turn red for 5mins after healing/buffing a red" option was in effect.

I played on Tallon Zek for years, which was a pvp teams server that wouldn't allow players to attack others +/-7 levels from their own (a lv14 could attack a lv7 but not a lv6).

It sounds like an easy system to exploit. Just bring a higher level with you to heal while you killed others, but in reality, this rarely happened. It takes the fun out of it. The point of pvp is to have fun, challenging, random battles against other players. This helps to break up the monotony of just killing mindless mobs all the time.

[Phallax]

Even then imagine a complete heal landing on someone and turning the healer red, not gonna matter much after a long fight where you're almost dead.

Could make it like a NO DROP loot window. A window pops before you actually cast, warning that if you heal this person you will be flagged for PvP and you are flagged as soon as the Heal/Buff is started to be casted. This gives the opponent time to interupt the heal.

I played on Tallon Zek for years, which was a pvp teams server that wouldn't allow players to attack others +/-7 levels from their own (a lv14 could attack a lv7 but not a lv6).

It sounds like an easy system to exploit. Just bring a higher level with you to heal while you killed others, but in reality, this rarely happened. It takes the fun out of it. The point of pvp is to have fun, challenging, random battles against other players. This helps to break up the monotony of just killing mindless mobs all the time.

You still have blue griefers that do it out of spite tho.

[Braelyn]

Could make it like a NO DROP loot window. A window pops before you actually cast, warning that if you heal this person you will be flagged for PvP and you are flagged as soon as the Heal/Buff is started to be casted. This gives the opponent time to interupt the heal.

QUOTE=Braelyn;87539]I played on Tallon Zek for years, which was a pvp teams server that wouldn't allow players to attack others +/-7 levels from their own (a lv14 could attack a lv7 but not a lv6).

It sounds like an easy system to exploit. Just bring a higher level with you to heal while you killed others, but in reality, this rarely happened. It takes the fun out of it. The point of pvp is to have fun, challenging, random battles against other players. This helps to break up the monotony of just killing mindless mobs all the time.

You still have blue griefers that do it out of spite tho.[/QUOTE]

I'm not denying it doesn't happen. It does, but my point was it doesn't happen as much as you think. If people are worried about that happening to them, they shouldn't go red. That's the beauty of choice.

[PhelanKA]

As much whining, etc., goes on concerning named in PoHate, Fear, Solb, etc., I always thought the solution for when 2 or 3 guilds start bitchin about who got 15 first ... who should get the named ... blah, no we had 15 first, the account I was boxing .... err, my brother went LD, then we had 14 when you looked ... blah blah ... Abacab was training us .... the corpse poofed ... oh he ninja looted ... blah blah blah.

Solution ... toggle PVP on for the zone. You die, you cannot zone back in for 30 minutes.

There, problem solved.

Damn, someone must have put piss and vinegar in my drink tonight.

Haynar

Sounds like a great solution. I came from Rallos Zek server and we never had the problems and bitchfests I've seen on these carebear servers. And people didn't bitch about getting PK'd unless they were scrubs that sucked. You either:

A) Moved on with your life
B) Got revenge
C) Ragequit

Whiners were pretty much forced into option C for the most part. It worked out very well for everyone.

[HippoNipple]

I played on Tallon Zek for years, which was a pvp teams server that wouldn't allow players to attack others +/-7 levels from their own (a lv14 could attack a lv7 but not a lv6).

It sounds like an easy system to exploit. Just bring a higher level with you to heal while you killed others, but in reality, this rarely happened. It takes the fun out of it. The point of pvp is to have fun, challenging, random battles against other players. This helps to break up the monotony of just killing mindless mobs all the time.


Just the thought of allowing people too scared to turn on PvP themselves have any type of influence on PvP makes me cringe. Blues cannot be allowed to heal/buff a red at anytime. If you just give them a timer of 5 minutes then they can intervene when it is convenient and then not have to watch their back like all the reds that have the balls to deal with the consequences of PvP. If I saw one blue in planar gear following a red healing them I would probably just rage/nerd quit and delete my red char.

With that said someone that plays 40+ hours a week, has enough eq friends, pull, and resources to keep a red guild for alts going needs to start one up, because that man is not me.

[Taxi]

Just the thought of allowing people too scared to turn on PvP themselves have any type of influence on PvP makes me cringe. Blues cannot be allowed to heal/buff a red at anytime. If you just give them a timer of 5 minutes then they can intervene when it is convenient and then not have to watch their back like all the reds that have the balls to deal with the consequences of PvP. If I saw one blue in planar gear following a red healing them I would probably just rage/nerd quit and delete my red char.

With that said someone that plays 40+ hours a week, has enough eq friends, pull, and resources to keep a red guild for alts going needs to start one up, because that man is not me.

Right, thats the solution right there. You cant participate in PVP unless you turn the flag on at the priest of dischord.

[Dantes]

Guild wars were always fun. I was an advocate for getting my guild to get involved in battles. We were on Brell, the self proclaimed "role player" server, so it was easy to convince folks to fight when you would roleplay good vs an evil. It was our duty to cleanse the world of their evil. We still had our share of people complaining who just wanted to grind exp and get phat loot, but we had enough people who were sick of the day to day crap to join in on our wars. Some folks even left the guild after guild wars were started. They'd ask, "Why have a war?" My answer, "For fun!" We even had an arch rival guild.

We used to meet weekly at the Arena for duels and practice. I had a completely different set of gear for pvp, every piece of resist gear I could get my hands on. Nothing like seeing the "you have resisted..." message in the window followed by that cracking bone sound of hitting a caster really hard. Ah, memories.

If I had more time I'd be up for some battles. It's really not all that fun from an "I have 1 night a week to play" perspective. When you have infinite time to gather equipment, it's so much better :)

[Braelyn]

How about this:

Blues can't heal/buff reds unless they are grouped together AND all the blues grouped with the red consent to temporarily turn red themselves. They will become blue again as soon as they leave the group, and when they do they lose the ability to heal/buff the red.

[PhelanKA]

How about this:

Blues can't heal/buff reds unless they are grouped together AND all the blues grouped with the red consent to temporarily turn red themselves. They will become blue again as soon as they leave the group, and when they do they lose the ability to heal/buff the red.

Far too exploitable. So when the shit starts looking like it's about to hit the fan you just disband from the group? Yeaaah... I could see that working out REAL well :rolleyes:

Maybe if there was a timer after you quit the group that kept you red for 30 mins or so? Dunno, but still it sounds fishy.

[Braelyn]

Far too exploitable. So when the shit starts looking like it's about to hit the fan you just disband from the group? Yeaaah... I could see that working out REAL well :rolleyes:

Maybe if there was a timer after you quit the group that kept you red for 30 mins or so? Dunno, but still it sounds fishy.

The intended effect is to allow blues and reds to group, while also preventing blues from unfairly turning the tide in pvp battles. It could use some tweaks, but it accomplishes both of these goals.

[PhelanKA]

The intended effect is to allow blues and reds to group, while also preventing blues from unfairly turning the tide in pvp battles. It could use some tweaks, but it accomplishes both of these goals.

Do you understand the concept of "exploitable"? Allowing for snap decisions on whether you are a target or not based upon if you stay in a group is unacceptable.

[Braelyn]

Or, and this would probably be the easiest thing to do, allow players to more easily switch between pvp and non-pvp mode. Make it where you just have to talk to the Priest of Discord to toggle between the two.

That way people can get their pvp fix in and then be able to switch back and actually group with people.

[Braelyn]

Do you understand the concept of "exploitable"? Allowing for snap decisions on whether you are a target or not based upon if you stay in a group is unacceptable.

Calm down. Of course I understand what "exploitable" means. I'm just trying to come up with suggestions. Never did I say these ideas were perfect.

[PhelanKA]

Calm down. Of course I understand what "exploitable" means. I'm just trying to come up with suggestions. Never did I say these ideas were perfect.

Sorry, I guess I did sorta sound like a prick there.

Personally I'm a fan of the "Fight Night" idea or making certain zones FFA or Team PVP.

I don't even know if any of this implementable though, and even if it were if the devs should be spending their time on it. I'd love it, but I think increasing content with Kunark is higher on their list of things to do if I had to guess.

[HippoNipple]

I think the rules are fine the way they are. You can't give the blues a chance to taste pvp and then go back to blue - they have to be able to be pked while they are afk meditating just like the reds. Who cares if they are red for 30 minutes while they are in a group of pvpers and protected anyways. If they dont' want to pvp they stay blue, no gray area bullshit where you get to grief real pvpers then hide behind blue. There would be no point in ever turning red then. In fact pvpers would just make a level 1 red to follow them around so they could heal them and turn pvp for a moment to kill a real red player. It is good the way it is now.

[Braelyn]

Sorry, I guess I did sorta sound like a prick there.

Personally I'm a fan of the "Fight Night" idea or making certain zones FFA or Team PVP.

I don't even know if any of this implementable though, and even if it were if the devs should be spending their time on it. I'd love it, but I think increasing content with Kunark is higher on their list of things to do if I had to guess.

It's cool. I would definitely be down for a "Fight Night" or pvp zones. I think pvp is such a fun part of eq, and it's a shame that it's pretty much non-existent on this otherwise excellent server.

[HippoNipple]

I failed, the reason I posted is I was trying to get people excited about making an alt red pvp guild to try to spark some pvp on this server with current rules without asking for help with server changes. The only thing people are talking about are what they would want to change lol!

I don't have time or resources to start a successful alt pvp guild, I need one of you guys to set it up so I can join with an alt! I swear if its successful and people start seeing a red guild out there another will form to try to attack us out of boredom. It could have a fun pvp snowball effect.

If you build it, they will come!

[PhelanKA]

I sold that book thingy. Otherwise I would.

[Braelyn]

I failed, the reason I posted is I was trying to get people excited about making an alt red pvp guild to try to spark some pvp on this server with current rules without asking for help with server changes. The only thing people are talking about are what they would want to change lol!

I don't have time or resources to start a successful alt pvp guild, I need one of you guys to set it up so I can join with an alt! I swear if its successful and people start seeing a red guild out there another will form to try to attack us out of boredom. It could have a fun pvp snowball effect.

If you build it, they will come!

Sure you could start one. I'd join it, and so would a friend of mine, so that's 3 people right here. My toon is named Cookietyme.

[Lowlife]

Lets get it started this weekend. If you wanna make a red alt, make a new Red char at 6pm EST this Saturday and meet at the freeport newbie area.

[PhelanKA]

Sure you could start one. I'd join it, and so would a friend of mine, so that's 3 people right here. My toon is named Cookietyme.

Haha, I should've known this was Cookietyme.

<< Oxoo

Remember the other night at Befallen? And on that note, I would join this hypothetical guild as well.

[Braelyn]

Haha, I should've known this was Cookietyme.

<< Oxoo

Remember the other night at Befallen? And on that note, I would join this hypothetical guild as well.

Lol, oh man, I wish I could forget that night, that was rough. It would be a good fit for the "Biggest waste of time on EQ" thread.

[Braelyn]

Lets get it started this weekend. If you wanna make a red alt, make a new Red char at 6pm EST this Saturday and meet at the freeport newbie area.

This is what we need, someone proactive. Sounds like a plan to me.

[PhelanKA]

Lol, oh man, I wish I could forget that night, that was rough. It would be a good fit for the "Biggest waste of time on EQ" thread.

Awww cmon! It's experiences like that that grow hair on your chest. Rawr!

[Sarkhan]

I would have to agree with HippoNipple, I think the ruleset is just fine how it is and on a side-note Blues are able to buff and such Red players in Arenas -> At least that's what i remember from Live... its how red players would get buffs before heading out on exp grind.

I think all the server needs is a self sufficient Red guild and the snowball effect would happen... the only thing i'd like to see is some sort of way to do go back to Blue. Some sort of giant elaborate quest that any lvl can do that simply involves running to nearly every hometown zone this way it takes hours to accomplish..
An idea would be have "Priests of Law" NPCs placed around norrath outside towns or in newb friendly spots that you have to run to and do "whatever" to get an item from each of them to then hand in to go back to Blue...

On a side note, whatever happened to that old /guildwar command? It was a command that guild leader could hit and start a "war" between one guild with another lasting a determined amount of time which would effectively let any member from opposing guilds fight each other in any environment.... It was listed in the Kunark game manual that came with the expansion.

[Braelyn]

Who else wants to join the red guild?

[HippoNipple]

Well just meet at Freeport newbie area this weekend like Lowlife suggested. I unfortunately am going out of town for the weekend for the 4th of July but I'm going to keep in touch through here (probably PM Lowlife).

I would say the goal of the first meeting would be to come up with a name and talk about getting it established... also finding a way to keep in touch whether it's email or making another thread on this forum under the guild section.

Once I get back I will make my DE Cleric for the Red Alt guild. All I ask is that if the name is decided upon and the guild is established before I get back please do not make the name a complete joke heh.

[Sarkhan]

I will join too but I can tell you right now it is an alt that will rarely get played until my other chars are bit higher lvl. Having just recently joined P99 I gotta work on a main first. I made a barbarian rogue named Outcast and he will join.

As for the name, I would think something with the word "Discord" in it.

[HippoNipple]

As for the name, I would think something with the word "Discord" in it.

I like that idea and second that. Disciples of Discord, or just the name Discord sounds good to me.

As far as it just being your alt that is fine. The main thing to start things off is getting some interest in making red characters so the guild has people to level with. Once there are some characters made I think it will be more of a success then most small new guilds with alts because those alts won't have other guilds to go to once they get better. The guild will grow with the players in it.

[Sarkhan]

When you go red, are you able to loot coin?
I played on Vallon Zek and i felt coin loot really added to the gameplay. There was no item loot which imo is good because people would just camp certain people to steal their gear and No Drop items couldn't be looted so high lvls with no drop raid gear would just pick off people to sell their armor... But where coin loot was involved, it gave it a reason to kill people and yet killing same person over and over did nothing... It forced people to use banks...
Without coin loot, killing someone just seems kind of like a dick thing to do because it puts them to bind and there is no reason.. People generally understood there was nothing personal about being killed because it was a chance to make money...

Another thing i liked about coin loot was when there is a twinked person killing off people and looting them all up, you get a chance to get it back.. I remember back in the day a Fungi twink was killing off newbs in Field of Bone and my friend and I (both poorly geared) managed to duo the twink.. when we looted, he was carrying 300p :-D
Kind of like a little reward... Most times you don't lose much or you don't gain much from a kill but it is a nice little reward for going through the difficulty of taking down a person. Hell, even lvl 1 decaying skeleton can drop coin, why not a person?

[Sarkhan]

Well I'll be damned!

I'm not sure if it was always there (though my friend said it was long time ago but removed for some reason) But there is a Priest of Order wandering North Qeynos who removes PvP Status!!!

When hailed he says "Hi, I'm the Priest of Order. My quests aren't implemented yet. In the meantime, i can remove your [pvp] status if you'd like." And just like that, "You no longer follow the ways of discord." !!!

There we have it, there is no longer any excuse for us to not make this guild and dedicate to it!

[Sarkhan]

I actually really like "Disciples of Discord".. DoD will probably be short when we get big...

LAST thing i want is the first Discord guild to be name "FuzzyBunnies of doom" or anything similar.

**Edit**
So I posted a thread in the guild/recruitment forums... check it out and post if you're interested and tell me what you think.

**Edit again**
So it turns out you CAN get exp in a group with Blue (non-pvp) even if you're Red (pvp)... The only thing is you can't get the buffs and heals and such... So go ahead and group and lvl up, just don't be the cleric of the group haha.

[HippoNipple]

Well I think you can heal/buff others... so more like don't be the tank of a group.
Any pure caster should be fine in groups as a red.

[Ripcord]

Ill roll a toon for this. But how about <Red Army> or something with red in it

[HippoNipple]

^

guild name fail

[Lowlife]

Disciples of Discord. Make a red alt this weekend! Meet in FP newb area 6pm EST!