Interesting/Cool/ things Paladins can do ? [Archive]

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susvain0362

05-14-2013, 01:17 AM

Hey all...so i play a 27 paladin now as my main and since i did not play one on live i am wondering what/if any cool things high level paladins can do?

I'm talkin like...what can they duo/trio that is impressive? A hard camp or mob? Solo camp a nice loot? Or is there some uber solo exp'ing spots for any given levels? Can they do any cool raid tanking? Are there any unique uses that are impressive or neat? Any random pull spot or something?

Know what i'm sayin? Does anyone know some stuff?

Spare me the "paladins r bad". "worse than ranger". "reroll a real class" "you cant get groups because no one wants a paladin" bullshit. I'm an ERUDITE!! paladin because I enjoy playing that.

4WOFURY

05-14-2013, 01:39 AM

Props to you on playing what you like because you like it! I don't feel like there are enough erudites on the server, but maybe it's just me lol.

Brandonian10

05-14-2013, 04:40 AM

You can hold epic flaming swords.

If AA's were in you could get a really really fast holy steed.. I do miss that sometimes.

Bubbles

05-14-2013, 04:44 AM

They are pretty boss at trade skills with the extra INT.

Freakish

05-14-2013, 05:00 AM

You can pacify pull, helm heal, 90% rez at 59 and /lol at casters. As a necromancer I duo'd with a paladin in the 50s quite a bit, it was very handy. He had decent hp buffs, I could heal him, he could single pull. There was good synergy.

You're also always the start of a group. Find a healer, a CC and you're good to go.

If you're talking camps? You can probably solo pull basement in KC, north wing and west wing in HS, NG and crypt in Sebilis. Pacify will be a lot more valuable once invis pulling is nerfed.

quido

05-14-2013, 05:17 AM

you can be a tank that nobody wants! you can be a buffer that everyone wants (in velious)!

Brut

05-14-2013, 05:26 AM

Welcome to EverQuest!
You have entered Kael Drakkel.
MESSAGE OF THE DAY: Welcome to Project1999: The Scars of Velious! Visit project1999.org for news and required play files. Please remember to submit bugs on the forums. /petition should be for immediate help only et cetera et cetera.
You begin casting Brell's Mountainous Barrier.
Raidmaintank begins to radiate with divine strength.
It will take you about 30 seconds to prepare your camp.
It will take you about 25 seconds to prepare your camp.
It will take you about 20 seconds to prepare your camp.
It will take you about 15 seconds to prepare your camp.
It will take you about 10 seconds to prepare your camp.
It will take you about 5 seconds to prepare your camp.

arsenalpow

05-14-2013, 05:34 AM

60 monk + 60 paladin duos efreeti rather easily. No puppet strings or any other cute tricks like that.

Itap

05-14-2013, 07:17 AM

falkun

05-14-2013, 07:18 AM

90% rez is handy.
BMB is Luclin, Divine Strength is Velious.
Group-wide heal (although cleric group heal is much better).
Natures Defender > all (but you can't use as Erudite).
There are some neat pulling/positioning tricks with DA, but idols allow anyone to do that.

webrunner5

05-14-2013, 10:44 AM

I am not going to say anything negative just like he asked. :D But I am waiting also. :o hmm.

Dentalplan

05-14-2013, 10:48 AM

Paladins get to have 40% more adventures while leveling to 60!

burkemi5

05-14-2013, 12:58 PM

I leveled a pally to 55 before I quit, I will try to say a few nice things about them

a) you can be a dwarf. Dwarf roll is awesome.
b) Healing spells are nice. If you're in trouble, you can root and heal, which is something that no other melee class can do.
c) Lulls and roots make you a pretty good puller up to the mid 40s.
d) Lay on hands is awesome.
e) get a Ghoulbane and you can solo undead mobs very well.
f) arguably the best spells for gaining aggro instantly and maintaining it.

Now some negatives:
a) By far the worst DPS. Your DPS is straight up pitiful.
b) Lower skills than a warrior means you'll never tank a raid mob unless your guild is hard pressed for tanks.
c) The EXP penalty is horrible. It's the reason why I quit my paladin and will never play another hybrid class.
c2) People will not want to group with you because of the EXP penalty you bring to groups. Seriously, do not underestimate the EXP penalty.

Edit: to answer your question, there is nothing that a paladin can duo / trio that a monk couldn't do better. Your DPS is way worse, you leech more EXP, and you dodge far less than a monk. Anyone in their right mind would not duo / trio with a pally.

I'm not joking when I say this. Quit your paladin and make a mage / nec / shaman / ench. Hell, even a druid.

Rhambuk

05-14-2013, 01:07 PM

I am not going to say anything negative just like he asked. :D But I am waiting also. :o hmm.

I have absolutely nothing good to say about paladins.

If you want to know why you can't get groups start a paladin hate thread =p

Gadwen

05-14-2013, 01:50 PM

c2) People will not want to group with you because of the EXP penalty you bring to groups. Seriously, do not underestimate the EXP penalty.

Edit: to answer your question, there is nothing that a paladin can duo / trio that a monk couldn't do better. Your DPS is way worse, you leech more EXP, and you dodge far less than a monk. Anyone in their right mind would not duo / trio with a pally.

I just started leveling another char a couple months ago and I have to say this time around there is very little chance to escape an exp penalty in a group. I don't think I have been in a group without at least 1 ranger and a great deal of the time a bard and sk/pally tanking.

On another note, an iksar monk has a higher exp penalty (44%) than any pally.

My advice to OP is to play whatever class you want, people need tanks so I wouldn't expect a group sitting around waiting for one to turn you down because of the exp penalty. Or better yet, make friends with a cleric and you guys will be the one deciding who gets an invite.

Atmas

05-14-2013, 02:00 PM

Raid tanking is pretty much going to be left to the warriors. However there are benefits to being a paladin:

1. A character decked out in plate with a fiery sword looks awesome.
2. For most of your lower leveling career you will hold agro better than warriors over those twinks.
3. You are a tank, there have been plenty of times when this server has had a shortage.
4. If you ever make it that far you can rez 90%, which is pretty good.
5. Not much gear competition on class items, this includes even epic mobs.
6. LoH is awesome and will save you and might prevent a group/raid wipe.
7. You can heal others, not amazingly, but you can do it.
8. You are much less dps than a monk but you are less of an xp hole than an in iksar monk and can snap agro better.
9. Some decent clickable healing from helm and BP.

You really should play what you enjoy. There are some pros and negatives to every class and you might have some pros that other classes have but not all have.

Nirgon

05-14-2013, 02:23 PM

Paladins are an amazing grouping class. Sorry if you don't think so.

Their gear is also rock bottom price on this server.

In Velious they are just straight sick when geared out.

Rhambuk

05-14-2013, 02:26 PM

Paladins are an amazing grouping class. Sorry if you don't think so.

Their gear is also rock bottom price on this server.

In Velious they are just straight sick when geared out.

All true. Still hate them =p

Nune

05-14-2013, 02:30 PM

bluejam

05-14-2013, 03:40 PM

In Velious they are just straight sick when geared out.
Any class would be.

Splorf22

05-14-2013, 03:44 PM

you can post troll threads in rnf

falkun

05-14-2013, 03:52 PM

you can post troll threads in rnf

That is all/all.

Bohab

05-14-2013, 03:57 PM

Now some negatives:
a) By far the worst DPS. Your DPS is straight up pitiful.

Procs:
Fiery Defender - 155 dd+short stun
Divine Might - 65 dd

Did you have these? Do you realize how often they proc each fight? If your dex is only 80 then you're doing it wrong...

FA swings can hit for 190+... now add rotting a 41% sky belt and some haste. Paladin parse is no longer pitiful.

b) Lower skills than a warrior means you'll never tank a raid mob unless your guild is hard pressed for tanks.

Paladins & SKs tank raid trash pretty well and very often... hell I've seen a Paladin tanking Spiroc Lords. Never say never.

c) The EXP penalty is horrible. It's the reason why I quit my paladin and will never play another hybrid class.
c2) People will not want to group with you because of the EXP penalty you bring to groups. Seriously, do not underestimate the EXP penalty.

It's the misconceptions people like you spread that make this statement true. Despite the XP penalty they make a great tank and can dish out DPS when geared well.

Not every 50+ Paladin is a HE with a ghoulbane, cracked darkwood shield, no haste, and wearing armor of ro...

webrunner5

05-14-2013, 04:02 PM

Procs:
Fiery Defender - 155 dd+short stun
Divine Might - 65 dd

Did you have these? Do you realize how often they proc each fight? If your dex is only 80 then you're doing it wrong...

FA swings can hit for 190+... now add rotting a 41% sky belt and some haste. Paladin parse is no longer pitiful.

Paladins & SKs tank raid trash pretty well and very often... hell I've seen a Paladin tanking Spiroc Lords. Never say never.

It's the misconceptions people like you spread that make this statement true.

Not every 50+ Paladin is a HE with a ghoulbane, cracked darkwood shield, no haste, and wearing armor of ro...

Oh come on. Every one in the group other than the poor Cleric can go take a shit and come back before a Pally kills a tough mob. :eek:

Bohab

05-14-2013, 04:03 PM

Oh come on. Every one in the group other than the poor Cleric can go take a shit and come back before a Pally kills a tough mob. :eek:

I'll drop some parses here next time I'm allowed to raid on my Paladin. ;)

Splorf22

05-14-2013, 04:18 PM

<table cellpadding="3" bgcolor="DimGray"> <tr bgcolor="MidnightBlue"><td align="left" colspan="14"> Combined: A drolvarg sentry on 5/12/2013 </tr> <tr bgcolor="Black"><td align="left"> <td align="left"> Damage by <td align="right"> Total <td align="right"> % of Tot <td align="right"> Time <td align="right"> DPS <td align="right"> Scaled <td align="right"> Hits <td align="right"> Max hit <td align="right"> Avg hit <td align="right"> Dmg to PC <td align="right"> NPC DPS <td align="left"> Special <td align="left"> </tr> <tr bgcolor="MidnightBlue"><td align="left"> <td align="left"> Total <td align="right"> 130155 <td align="right"> 100% <td align="right"> 951 <td align="right"> 137 <td align="right"> 137 <td align="right"> 2606 <td align="right"> 681 <td align="right"> 49 <td align="right"> 14013 <td align="right"> 15 <td align="left"> <td align="left"> </tr> <tr bgcolor="Black"><td align="left"> <td align="left"> Shenlaw <td align="right"> 30663 <td align="right"> 23.56% <td align="right"> 948 <td align="right"> 32 <td align="right"> 32 <td align="right"> 1076 <td align="right"> 115 <td align="right"> 28 <td align="right"> 1694 <td align="right"> 2 <td align="left"> <td align="left"> </tr> <tr bgcolor="MidnightBlue"><td align="left"> <td align="left"> Goner <td align="right"> 28826 <td align="right"> 22.15% <td align="right"> 948 <td align="right"> 30 <td align="right"> 30 <td align="right"> 554 <td align="right"> 168 <td align="right"> 52 <td align="right"> 2095 <td align="right"> 3 <td align="left"> <td align="left"> </tr> <tr bgcolor="Black"><td align="left"> <td align="left"> Kazmeir <td align="right"> 25688 <td align="right"> 19.74% <td align="right"> 927 <td align="right"> 28 <td align="right"> 27 <td align="right"> 143 <td align="right"> 681 <td align="right"> 179 <td align="right"> 620 <td align="right"> 1 <td align="left"> <td align="left"> </tr> <tr bgcolor="MidnightBlue"><td align="left"> <td align="left"> Valdrok <td align="right"> 23252 <td align="right"> 17.86% <td align="right"> 950 <td align="right"> 24 <td align="right"> 24 <td align="right"> 343 <td align="right"> 180 <td align="right"> 67 <td align="right"> 7552 <td align="right"> 8 <td align="left"> <td align="left"> </tr> <tr bgcolor="Black"><td align="left"> <td align="left"> Jebobn <td align="right"> 15312 <td align="right"> 11.76% <td align="right"> 843 <td align="right"> 18 <td align="right"> 16 <td align="right"> 348 <td align="right"> 147 <td align="right"> 44 <td align="right"> 120 <td align="right"> 0 <td align="left"> <td align="left"> </tr> <tr bgcolor="MidnightBlue"><td align="left"> <td align="left"> Dextir <td align="right"> 2323 <td align="right"> 1.78% <td align="right"> 42 <td align="right"> 55 <td align="right"> 2 <td align="right"> 39 <td align="right"> 391 <td align="right"> 59 <td align="right"> 0 <td align="right"> 0 <td align="left"> <td align="left"> </tr> <tr bgcolor="Black"><td align="left"> <td align="left"> Spectral caller <td align="right"> 2065 <td align="right"> 1.59% <td align="right"> 80 <td align="right"> 26 <td align="right"> 2 <td align="right"> 34 <td align="right"> 100 <td align="right"> 60 <td align="right"> 0 <td align="right"> 0 <td align="left"> <td align="left"> </tr> <tr bgcolor="MidnightBlue"><td align="left"> <td align="left"> Lobarn <td align="right"> 1591 <td align="right"> 1.22% <td align="right"> 235 <td align="right"> 7 <td align="right"> 2 <td align="right"> 52 <td align="right"> 51 <td align="right"> 30 <td align="right"> 0 <td align="right"> 0 <td align="left"> <td align="left"> </tr> <tr bgcolor="Black"><td align="left"> <td align="left"> Jabobtik <td align="right"> 172 <td align="right"> 0.13% <td align="right"> 54 <td align="right"> 3 <td align="right"> 0 <td align="right"> 9 <td align="right"> 32 <td align="right"> 19 <td align="right"> 0 <td align="right"> 0 <td align="left"> <td align="left"> </tr> <tr bgcolor="MidnightBlue"><td align="left"> <td align="left"> Lebaner <td align="right"> 166 <td align="right"> 0.13% <td align="right"> 24 <td align="right"> 7 <td align="right"> 0 <td align="right"> 4 <td align="right"> 45 <td align="right"> 41 <td align="right"> 0 <td align="right"> 0 <td align="left"> <td align="left"> </tr> <tr bgcolor="Black"><td align="left"> <td align="left"> Xasekab <td align="right"> 97 <td align="right"> 0.07% <td align="right"> 12 <td align="right"> 8 <td align="right"> 0 <td align="right"> 4 <td align="right"> 35 <td align="right"> 24 <td align="right"> 176 <td align="right"> 176 <td align="left"> <td align="left"> </tr> <tr bgcolor="MidnightBlue"><td align="left"> <td align="left"> Broli <td align="right"> 0 <td align="right"> 0% <td align="right"> 0 <td align="right"> 0 <td align="right"> 0 <td align="right"> 0 <td align="right"> 0 <td align="right"> 0 <td align="right"> 1051 <td align="right"> 2 <td align="left"> <td align="left"> </tr> <tr bgcolor="Black"><td align="left"> <td align="left"> Bowlofruit <td align="right"> 0 <td align="right"> 0% <td align="right"> 0 <td align="right"> 0 <td align="right"> 0 <td align="right"> 0 <td align="right"> 0 <td align="right"> 0 <td align="right"> 642 <td align="right"> 3 <td align="left"> <td align="left"> </tr> <tr bgcolor="MidnightBlue"><td align="left"> <td align="left"> Enanon <td align="right"> 0 <td align="right"> 0% <td align="right"> 0 <td align="right"> 0 <td align="right"> 0 <td align="right"> 0 <td align="right"> 0 <td align="right"> 0 <td align="right"> 63 <td align="right"> 16 <td align="left"> <td align="left"> </tr> <tr bgcolor="darkgreen"> <td colspan="14" align="right"> <a href="http://gambosoft.com/forum/"> Produced by GamParse v1.0.3 </a> </td> </tr> </table>

Shenlaw - Monk
Goner - Max level Vocaration: Water
Kazmeir - 55 Magician (burnt wood staff + water pet nuke + sword of runes proc)
Valdrok - 53 Paladin with the Epic
Jebobn - Necro Rogue pet
Dextir - epic rogue who was LD during most of this parse

Valdrok really did OK here, and the parse does not account for any of his spell damage (also note how ridiculously OP magicians are at this level. Total its about 60k when DS damage is added).

HOWEVER,

this parse was from the LCY area of KC: most of the mobs were 45ish. My understanding is that Paladin offensive skills barely improve at all from 50-60, so in an area like the chef their dps would be substantially worse.

burkemi5

05-14-2013, 04:20 PM

I'll drop some parses here next time I'm allowed to raid on my Paladin. ;)

Well, yeah, a pally with 41% haste and the epic is good. Any class is good with gear. However, if it's your first character on this server, would you seriously recommend someone to roll paladin?

burkemi5

05-14-2013, 04:24 PM

On another note, an iksar monk has a higher exp penalty (44%) than any pally.

i would take an iksar monk over a pally as a tank 100% of the time

Norathorr

05-14-2013, 04:43 PM

Paladins are awesome. They can hold decent aggro, root and the stuns also are great for interrupting cheals and gates. Can also patch heal your party and use the heals for additional forms of aggro andprovide decent buffs for when no cleric is in the group. I played paladin for 5 years on live and it was not until Pop where they really shone, but they are highly under-appreciated in this era when in actuality they are very good at their job in a group situation. In raid situations I guess they are eclipsed by warriors until events where good snap aggro off tanks are required.

Gadwen

05-14-2013, 09:13 PM

i would take an iksar monk over a pally as a tank 100% of the time

So the EXP penalty is irrelevant. You are just picking what classes you want and need for a group, just like the vast majority of the people that this guy will encounter. Luckily for him and any other pallys, a group sitting around looking for a tank isn't going to pass up a pally and wait around to see if they can get a monk to tank, they will grab the pally and commence exping.

I've put a lot of play time in on this server, and I have encountered very few people that were really obsessed with the groups penalty. People tend to blow it out of proportion on the forums. The reality is that for most (or any) of this guys leveling time there won't be a dozen other tanks sitting around LFG to compete with him for spots.

citizen1080

05-14-2013, 09:27 PM

I am not going to say anything negative just like he asked. :D But I am waiting also. :o hmm.

I approve of your avatar change...no one posts their RL photos on the interwebz....its creepy.

Lorraine

05-14-2013, 10:20 PM

Debating who's the meth user here between the guy who claims paladins can DPS and the guy who would actually choose a monk over a paladin as a tank.

Bohab

05-14-2013, 11:31 PM

clearly not a dps class... but some paladins suck more than others I guess? ^^ /shrug

webrunner5

05-15-2013, 06:14 AM

I approve of your avatar change...no one posts their RL photos on the interwebz....its creepy.

Thanks Bob. I can clearly have a much nicer day now. :)

Atmas

05-15-2013, 09:33 AM

I wouldn't call Paladin's a DPS class but they are a gear impacted class. Honestly for most casters their gear doesn't matter in a group sustained pulling scenario as it usually comes down to mana regen. Sometimes maximum mana matters for an oversized pull scenario. Paladins on the other hand gain a lot of direct benefit from gear and as I mentioned before, have less competition.

Tecmos Deception

05-15-2013, 09:41 AM

Paladins have been able to complete their epic without being in TMO or having to shell out big plat for MQs. That's pretty cool. There's also something (and a positive something, imo) to be said for being the rarest class in the game.

lecompte

05-15-2013, 01:29 PM

There is an inordinate amount of hate for the paladins going on here. Next time guild raids (prolly tonight) I'll post the parse results (or the part paladins are there for) of paladins present, myself, and the highest melee dps present to get an idea. I'll also ask about the paladin(s) haste items and post weapons. So far I've been least impressed with Shadowknight dps.

quido

05-15-2013, 01:36 PM

Paladin + Rogue is a pretty nice duo with the right getup.

Danth

05-15-2013, 02:47 PM

The Paladin's primary strength at high levels is as, bar none, the best anti-spellcaster tank for regular groups. You have so many stuns available that you can utterly shut down any spellcaster that your stuns will actually land on. This is a fair advantage in zones with a lot of spellcasting creatures. Chain-stunning can also act as a temporary replacement for slow if you have nobody who can cast slow. This gives the class a second wind in the low 50's--after your anti-undead ability has waned, but before you start running into lots of highly resistant creatures.

Project 1999-specific advantages include cheap class-specific gear and low competition for raid drops, both due to the class's lack of popularity. Another curious advantage is that, in a raid setting, it's a fine class for an unmotivated player. Between your relative lack of importance as a hybrid and lack of competition for drops, Paladin makes a good choice if you just want to be a warm body in the nameless ranks and vacuum up class-specific gear without anyone really caring what you do or whether you log on or not*.

The class's worst weakness is that it's too specialized as a stun-reliant group tank. Damage output scales so poorly that there's little point in trying to solo at high levels except to say you did. The Paladin loses much of its already limited power when it starts running into stun-immune creatures with regularity, and they're more common in Velious than Kunark. Overall it's not a particularly useful class to take to 60. It isn't highly desired as a duo partner for the most part and doesn't have much global utility beyond Rez. The Paladin can't port, can't solo farm particularly well, doesn't Powerlevel very well, and doesn't have the sort of buffs that other folks will tend to ask for.

The Paladin is my favorite class in EQ, but I consider it better as an alt than as a main. I retired mine at 53 and have no inclination to take it farther. Play the class, enjoy it, but do read around and know what to expect if you want to take it all the way to 60.

Danth

*Sure, you can be a motivated, efficient player and play a Paladin in a raid, but that's true of any class, while not all classes lend themselves to a half-attentive style.

Pint

05-15-2013, 04:41 PM

Being a paladin isn't for bitches boys and girls, that being said I put mine away after 60 just like everyone else. Bet we overtake the server when velious drops though.

Tecmos Deception

05-15-2013, 05:13 PM

So far I've been least impressed with Shadowknight dps.

SKs have more damaging spells, a pet, (better offensive skills?), harmtouch, and better weapons. How in the world could you possibly think more of paladin offense than shadowknight?

twizztid

05-15-2013, 05:18 PM

u can solo undead with ur spells rather ez, and some of ur weps proc against undead. I find that pretty cool. Get some good solo xp in undead areas

lecompte

05-15-2013, 05:28 PM

SKs have more damaging spells, a pet, (better offensive skills?), harmtouch, and better weapons. How in the world could you possibly think more of paladin offense than shadowknight?

True on the damaging spells but SK damage spells are (maybe? I don't know, not an SK) less dps than just hitting with a good weapon. The pet dps is a joke (it does have bash!), SK offensive skills have 5 more at max level, harm touch is probably the determining factor here.

Without doing any research at all, I'm going to say that their weapons are comporable.

getsome

05-15-2013, 05:32 PM

When your puller sucks (they all do) and brings a pair of Flurry Drakes to your camp, an attentive Paladin provides a good speed bump until the lazy off tank warrior picks it up.

Rez Paladin, rinse repeat.

Tecmos Deception

05-15-2013, 05:34 PM

True on the damaging spells but SK damage spells are (maybe? I don't know, not an SK) less dps than just hitting with a good weapon. The pet dps is a joke (it does have bash!), SK offensive skills have 5 more at max level, harm touch is probably the determining factor here.

Without doing any research at all, I'm going to say that their weapons are comporable.

1. Spells: they aren't mutually exclusive with meleeing, especially if you're swinging something nice and slow (like the epic or an oggok cleaver) cause you can cast spells between melee swings without losing much/any of your swing timer. And even if you don't cast during combat, you can pull/engage with a dot.

2. Pet: when you're talking about classes that are doing 30-40 dps with meleeing (in great gear on xp mobs), a 10ish DPS pet is not a joke... although it is pretty rare that it gets used, since SKs are often using CoS and such.

3. Skills: not sure how much they really affect things, but they're there nevertheless, working towards making SK damage better than pally. You didn't say that SKs were minimally more damage than paladins, afterall.

4. HT: probably the smallest factor imo, since it is resistable and only used once every 72 min. I guess it's not unlike a DPS discipline though... several hundred extra damage here or there.

5. Weapons: 19/24 vs 24/32, oggok cleaver vs. not, 40/45 epic with 250-point lifetap proc vs 30/35 epic with 100-something DD proc. SK weapons are better. Lower-end stuff is similar, 18/26 vs 16/27, 19/29 vs a ghoulbane, etc.

webrunner5

05-15-2013, 07:46 PM

Why oh why do these stupid threads come up all the time. Like I have said 50 times on here. There IS a BIG reason a Pally, Ranger, and Wizard are the LEAST played classes in that order on here. They are or were gimped in Classic and they are the same here because this is a Classic server. They are not great people. http://p1999pop.dmsimard.com/db/Classes

I am not saying not to play these classes. Some people like a REAL challenge and I get that. Or you played one on live, great. So did a lot of us I bet. Just don't come on here and say they are the cats ass. They blow. Now a few of them will get a bit better in Velious so that is something to look forward to. But they are never going to be a Monk or a Rogue DPS wise and guess what they get better too in Velious. :eek:

stonez138

05-15-2013, 08:26 PM

Edit: to answer your question, there is nothing that a paladin can duo / trio that a monk couldn't do better. Your DPS is way worse, you leech more EXP, and you dodge far less than a monk. Anyone in their right mind would not duo / trio with a pally.

Dumb post. I'd post why it's dumb, but it should be obvious....
hint-pally's can do other stuff besides dps and dodge

Vondra

05-15-2013, 09:03 PM

Paladins: When there's no ranger around to take the death touch.

heartbrand

05-15-2013, 09:05 PM

Zapatos

05-15-2013, 10:41 PM

Can do some pretty neat tricks generating aggro on mobs without doing damage, esp summoning mobs, esp perma rooted raid bosses (will our version of tov have those?).

Arteker

05-16-2013, 12:57 AM

First, apology for my english.

currently i own a paladin lvl 60 on this server ( rigth now and in terms of ac hps only Hammer can compete with him in AC hps mana unbuffed, raid buffed im sligthy superior to him ).

i own a lvl 100 paladin in AB server a paladin wich i played from kunark to nowdays as is till playing live albeit semi retired of raid).

i lived every change of the class for about 13 years .

but back in the topic i will give my point of view of a paladin rigth now in this server and if we even get in velious.

AS kunark char:

paladin in general have a hard time in kunark his gear outside few items isnt very excepcional or in pair with what sks wars can achieve .

Howver a paladin have several adventages , the first its the class wich can build the agro in game , his stun line the correct use of flash of ligth or even his gimp fear .

paladins can do prety well for themselves as CC with their line of roots and pacify, a rigth paladin can pull as well as monk in most xp groups, the trouble of course is their mana .

his mele is crap , like sk , and realy their undead nukes are not worth the mana they use.
they take more dmg but they got a adventage over monks wars in tankin.

paladin agro generation is so strong than if u make the rigth group u can just blew up regular trash before they hurt you so much and this keeping such dps without taking hits and the need of a cleric patchealing over time the dmg they usualy take.

Raid in kunark as a paladin : a paladin can mostly tank any the outdoor dragons without much trouble. myself i have tanked several times mobs such as Trakanon gorenaire , ct innoruck.....

not as easy with some of the bosses of sky or vp there u realy need a disc warrior. or a hugue ammount of heals , but since most figths dont last beyond 30 secs is easy .

paladins have the same mana pool of a pure caster sure ur dps is a pure shit but u got a adventage over a druid or a shaman .

ur Hps a paladin have by far more hps than any of the subhealers class wich allow him to pop his DA at engage of a mob to avoid the first aoe , then begin to spam heals once u see urself enxt aoe is killing u . then u pop ur lay hands and u will most likewise survive .

Arteker

05-16-2013, 01:13 AM

Velious:

paladins get some upgrades in velious so far making them better than sks in general.
spells: minor hp buffs,(u can aswell piss ur local ranger since Divine strengh will oevrride their atk buffs), a fast Heal over time (celestial cleansin is a cheap spell), group heals(most people will laugh at them but one u realize u not figthing 32 khps raid mobs wich die in less 30 secs every heal is welcome).

paladin defensive skills are raised to same lvl of a warrior in velious, Wars will have their discs adventage but otherwise a paladin had the same defensive skills as a war).

paladin offensive : once 2hs change happens paladins are not a joke anymore, the new mechanic in 2hs and their upgrade means a paladin in the long run can dish more dmg than a wizard , if u lucky enough to get a primal and ATK buffs ur dps is vastly superior to what u see in kunark.

paladin gear and raid scenario:
paladins gear is hugue factor in velious , as a warrior u can cap ur AC and reach impresive Hps ammounts but what is more important , ur manapool wil lbecome hugue aswell.
paladin are excellent patchealers in the long figths of velious, some of their disc such as sanctification before the nerf could block the Cazic touch .

paladins are good keeping their group memebrs alive casting cures in long figths such vulak .
paladin are excepcional in a little stuff, Rampage mobs, a paladin can easily take over rampage before it chew important class, while rangers can use weaponshield to position a mob a paladin can use his divine aura aswell.

Arteker

05-16-2013, 01:15 AM

and thats all realy , as realy golden age of paladins was planes of power expansion , some may say luclin but it belongs to ranegrs before the bow nerf .

Nirgon

05-16-2013, 01:22 AM

Lol @ wizard is bad

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/3297524224/h66AA6726/

Nogdar

05-16-2013, 05:10 AM

Velious:

paladin offensive : once 2hs change happens paladins are not a joke anymore, the new mechanic in 2hs

What 2h slash change/mecanic? Never really played in Velious :)

Kagatob

05-16-2013, 06:03 AM

Can do some pretty neat tricks generating aggro on mobs without doing damage, esp summoning mobs, esp perma rooted raid bosses (will our version of tov have those?).

Wut? :confused:

Kagatob

05-16-2013, 06:03 AM

What 2h slash change/mecanic? Never really played in Velious :)

Do you mean 2h bash?

Itap

05-16-2013, 07:19 AM

paladins have the same mana pool of a pure caster sure ur dps is a pure shit but u got a adventage over a druid or a shaman .

Hybrids mana pool scales with pure casters? Is this working at intended?

falkun

05-16-2013, 07:23 AM

Wow Kaga...
Aggro generation on perma-rooted mobs: Stun/FoL while it can't summon you because you haven't done any damage.
2h-Bash is exclusive to FD and slam races. That was classic until the 2HBash AA in Luclin, which we will likely not see on this server.

Arteker

05-16-2013, 10:11 AM

What 2h slash change/mecanic? Never really played in Velious :)

sorry my english isn t my native language.

Deep in Velious two hander weapons suffer a game change than actualy upgrade them from toys to realy usefull weapons .
scaled up dmg bonuss and dmg.

to make it easy to understand u will never hit for 20 points of dmg with a 30+ dmg weapon or a 40 one.

50 dmg weapons for paladins sk means u can hit for 350 and in any case u will not hit for 20 points of dmg anymore.

such upgrade together with Atk spell line and ATK booasts such primal and aura of battle improve so much 2 hands than in many cases it replace dual wield as best dps .

Arteker

05-16-2013, 10:19 AM

Hybrids mana pool scales with pure casters? Is this working at intended?

Yes it is, any hrybrid can have as much mana as ay pure caster.

Arteker

05-16-2013, 10:21 AM

Paladins and Shadowknights-

The Knight classes receive some of the biggest benefits from this melee balancing. Our evaluation of knights showed that in many cases they were doing just over half the damage of a similarly equipped warrior. This is simply not enough damage to make them highly desirable in group and raid situations. The changes we are implementing put knights at a bit over three-quarters of the damage potential of a ranger or a warrior. This represents a significant upgrade from their current status, without threatening the desirability of the ranger or warrior classes.

The first thing we did was to move knights to the same damage tables as warriors. This damage table is now shared by all melee classes, except the monk who is on the higher tables described above. By placing knights on this table, they will now hit harder with the same weapons than they did previously.

The second change that greatly benefits knight classes is the upgrade to two-handed weapons. While this isn't a knight only upgrade, as the premier users of two-handed weapons it has a profound effect on their damage potential. The two-handed weapon upgrade is discussed in more detail in the previous section.

For knights that prefer to use a weapon and shield combo, we plan to go through existing weapons available in the game and upgrade them in cases where they are not doing enough damage. These upgrades, as well as any new weapons we may add, will begin to be seen in game in the near future. One thing to note- a knight using a two-handed weapon will do more damage than a knight with weapon and shield of similar quality.

The final change we are making to knights is the increase of their Taunt skill cap. This increase begins at level 51, increasing a few points each level until it caps at 220 skill. Taunt still follows all the previous rules with regard to taunting things above your level."

webrunner5

05-16-2013, 01:06 PM

One thing I know is in Velious a Paladin is a damn good puller. We used them in my guild most of the time in Kael over Monks.

Arteker

05-16-2013, 05:12 PM

February 21, 2001 3:00 am
------------------------------

*Patch Day*

Today's patch contains a wide variety of enhancements and changes. Due
to the number of changes being made, this list is primarily a summary.
Extended descriptions of the changes and the reasoning behind them can
be solicited on the EverQuest Message Boards.

*Spell and Skill Changes*

Druids, Shaman, and Clerics:
--- Superior Healing moved to level 51 for shamans and druids.
--- Casting difficulty of Superior Heal reduced (less fizzles)
--- New level 55 Druid and shaman spell, Chloroblast, similar to remedy
for clerics.
--- New Druid spell at level 60, upgrade to superior healing, Natures
Touch.
--- Created a new spell effect for Celestial Healing, Celestial Elixir,
and Torpor. This will allow them to stack with all other spells, save
spells of the same type (Heal over time). Prior to this, all heal-over-
time spells followed the same rules as regeneration spells.
--- Reduced the casting difficulty of Remedy.
--- Lowered recast time on Wake of Karana

Paladins:
--- Added Endure Magic spell at level 30
--- Added Resist Magic at 55
--- Moved Guard spell from 49 to 39
--- Moved Armor of Faith from 53 to 49
--- Added New level 53 paladin spell: Divine Glory
--- Added New level 59 spell: Celestial Cleansing
--- Defense skill cap made exactly same as warriors
--- Added Yaulp 4 at 60 and enhanced.

Arteker

05-16-2013, 05:16 PM

why paladin agro become superior to any class in velious and in general beat the warriors proc agro :

*NPC AI - Hate*

We've made a number of changes to NPC AI, specifically to the section
dealing with target-selection, or what's commonly referred to as
"Hate". It is not so much that NPCs react differently to hate now than
before, but that we've changed the way that hate is awarded.

--- We reduced the amount of hate that can be caused by a proc. Due to
the high proc rates at upper levels, the amount of hate generated from
procs, and the spells that were selected for those procs, made keeping
the attention of the creature much too easy a task for the tank.
Simply, it nearly eliminated the challenge of keeping a foes attention
at levels above 50.

--- We've capped the amount of hate that can be awarded to most
casters, specifically for debuff-type spells like the Malo and Tash
series. The hate calculation for these spells takes into account the
number of hitpoints of the NPC and did not "play nice" with the
increased HP limit of Velious. It explains why Enchanters, for
instance, would complain that casting a Tash spell would lead to near-
instant death.

--- We've redressed the amount of hate generated by heal spells.
Previously, and *partly* due to a bug, the high level heal spells such
as superior heal or complete heal would generate no more hate than
greater heal. In fact, so little hate was generated by these spells
that it made controlling NPC aggression trivial. Heal spells will now
generate an amount of hate more in line with the number of hitpoints
actually healed. Due to our desire to leave the lower level game more
or less untouched, two separate caps have been placed for targets level
50 or below, and 51 or above. Heal spells will generate significantly
less hate for targets below level 51 than those at or above that level.

--- We've also re-evaluated ways that players have to reduce their own
hate. While spells in place to allow this are OK, the Evade skill
(possessed by rogues) let them out of their damage too easily. A rogue
that successfully evaded would immediately drop to a level of hate
lower than someone who was in the awareness range, but hadn't done
anything to really upset the creature such as damage it or heal its
foe. This problem was exacerbated by the increase of the size of the
hate list implemented with Velious.

*NPC AI Adjustments*

-- Level 60 players with the taunt skill will now have a chance to
taunt creatures that are level 60 to 65. Previously, players could only
taunt creatures below their level.
-- NPCs that are mesmerized or stunned will now only add a very small
amount of hate when they see you cast beneficial spells on their
enemies. Prior to this, they would add full hate when they saw you do
this. This is why NPCs would always jump the cleric after breaking Mez.
-- Fixed a bug that would cause NPCs to add too much "temporary hate"
when a player would sit down in front of them.
-- The maximum amount of "hate" that an NPC can add when witnessing a
heal to targets above level 50 has been decreased substantially.
-- Hate from heals is also now calculated at a lesser number than the
number of hitpoints healed. Previously, healing one hitpoint would
cause one point of hate. Now, healing 3 hitpoints will cause 2 points
of hate.

Danth

05-16-2013, 05:43 PM

Since we're talking Velious now: Arteker is correct in that Velious is better than Kunark, generally, for the hybrid classes. Kunark was the nadir for hybrids. I hated Kunark on live for that reason. My own thoughts on Velious:

Being switched to the Warrior-style damage table was a large improvement by itself. Don't underestimate it. That was my single favorite change from the era, even more so than the change to experience gain.

On P1999, the removal of the class experience penalties will take away the main reason some groups avoid these classes.

With the defense skill improvement and changes to hate management, hybrids become the best tanks for any content where /defensive isn't needed, including almost all group content. Monks don't hit their truly overpowered gear level (flayed barbarian skin leggings, etc) until they've already moved beyond the group level of gameplay.

Shadow Knights can more or less match overall Paladin aggro generation. Both classes are equipped with numerous high-hate spells. Paladins are a bit better at zero-damage hate generation though both classes can do it.

A weakness of hybrids in Velious is that they tend to become unpopular for main tanking raid bosses due to the increased length of time that creatures can live. I do not consider this a severe weakness, however, for what might be called "political" reasons (ie, MT on raid bosses is why people make a Warrior and it's not really fair to take that away from them). There are a few bosses hybrids are preferred for, but not many. Hybrids still make fine tanks for the basic clear--what some folks call a "plow tank."

A Paladin-specific weakness is the increased number of stun-immune creatures in Velious. While the Paladin can still hold aggro on such creatures fine, he loses his best tanking tool and no longer has much of any advantage over a Shadow Knight. Paladins still have a rather weak raid role if not tanking. In addition, there's relatively little undead in Velious, depriving both the Paladin and Shadow Knight of much use of their utility in that area.

Note that essentially all of the improvements hybrids see during Velious come some months after the expansion launches, and not all at once. The 2H weapon improvement, in particular, comes rather late in the expansion's life.

Here's the important part: Despite all the changes made, hybrids still rank on the lower end of the power scale. The changes simply reduce the gaps--not eliminate them. The strongest classes from Kunark (Shaman, Monk, etc) are still the strongest. If you already enjoy playing a hybrid, you should like Velious. If you don't like playing them, I doubt Velious will change that.

Danth

Arteker

05-16-2013, 05:46 PM

*** Melee Changes ***

After extensive research, testing, and evaluation we have completed the
melee portion of our class balancing. To be clear, these changes apply
just to the combat aspect of melee classes. Any issues with non-combat
skills, spell effects, spell selection, or non-combat aspects of
classes will be evaluated in the near future. With the completion of
the melee combat balancing, we will be moving onto spells and spell
casting classes.

Due to the extensive nature of these changes, we can't describe them in
detail here. A detailed summary will be available on our Developer's
Corner message board. Please visit www.everquest.com and our forums for
more information.

* Summary of Melee Changes *

- Two-Handed Weapons have been given an increased damage bonus for
characters over level 50. Also, certain post-epic quality two-handers
have been improved.

- Warriors have had their taunt skill cap increased to 230 at 60th
level. Also, the Blades of Strategy and Tactics can now be used in
either hand.

- Rogues, as the primary user of piercing weapons, will benefit from an
improvement in the quality of a few existing high-end daggers. At some
future date new piercing weapons will be added to the game to fill gaps
in equipment availability.

- Monks will now be on an improved combat table at levels 55 and again
to a better table at 60. Monks now have the ability to Triple Attack at
60th level. The minimum damage done by Flying Kick will be greatly
increased for monks starting at 51st level and scaling up to level 60.
We also intend to add more monk weapons in the future to fill equipment
gaps.

- Rangers have their Double Attack skill cap raised to 245. They have
also gained an innate offensive bonus that starts at level 55 and
increases until level 60. Ranger's Defense skill cap has been raised to
220, and their Riposte skill cap has been raised to 185.

- Paladins and Shadowknights, besides the benefits they gain from the
two-handed weapons change mentioned above, have also been moved to the
same combat tables as warriors. In the future we intend to examine the
existing one-handed weapons useable by knights for possible upgrades.
We are also increasing the Taunt skill cap for these two classes to
220.

- Bards have had their 1h blunt and 1h slash skill caps increased to
250. Their piercing skill cap has been increased to 240. Their Offense
skill cap has been raised to 252. Bards are also being moved to the
same combat table with all the other melee and hybrid classes (save
monks who have separate tables after level 55). Bards Parry skill cap
has been raised to 185 as well. Finally, the Singing Shortsword can now
be equipped in the off hand and still give full song enhancing
benefits.

Please read the detailed explanation of these changes on our
Developer's Corner message boards at
http://boards.station.sony.com/ubb/everquest/cgi-bin/Ultimate.cgi

Arteker

05-16-2013, 06:00 PM

Actualy with spell hate revamp most classic agro generators of shadows knigths such disease cloud debufs lose in agro power. this issue become fixed for them in luclin with their new terror line of spells, sks had several troubles for agro in velious. combined with velious resist table in regular raid scenearios didint help much the class, sk pulling was very damaged even with their improved FD spell.

A stun even if resisted generate the best agro in game till the stun nerf in gates of discord stun agro nerf, due to warriors bitchin .fuxx you furor and steeelwarriors cry babies . a paladin does not need stun lock a regular mob to achieve his best tanking prowes , unless its a caster .

his agro habilitys allow him to gather enough dps to make dmg taken smaller.

Arteker

05-16-2013, 06:10 PM

webrunner5

05-16-2013, 08:04 PM

webrunner5

05-16-2013, 08:26 PM

Honestly Ranger upgrades at very end of velious made them a superb dps hybrid and with their new like of atk buffs and upgraded discs.

Ranger with max atk buffs 2handers from high end raidin world where a excellent ranked dps, its mostly ignored as was a almost ignored class at the age till their boom in luclin with archery aas.

Rangers have always had good DPS, the problem is they can't get hit. Paper Tank just like a Bard. And it did not change much in Velious where the mobs even hit harder.

And yes Paladins got better with agro and defense in Velious, and as I said in being great pullers, but every Melee got better dps wise in Velious. So in essence Pally's gained nothing on DPS killing speed.

But thanks a lot for all the great research and posts you having been doing on this thread.

Razdeline

05-17-2013, 05:14 PM

60 SK is conditionally the best dps of all the hybrids.

If you have epic, and stack all other dots you are doing: 215 dmg/tick of spell damage
If you don't have epic, reduce that number to 186/tick. (epic proc won't work, but now you can use vampiric curse)

The pet is the 44 necro pet, and quads for 47. Give it mage swords and you are in business. I have parsed this pet at around 20-25dps. (thats 1200 damage a minute on the low end)

But this is conditional. It is just the classes potential. Typically, when I solo this is the type of damage I do. When grouping, it is less depending on if I have to pull or not and how much mana I have between mobs.

Sadre Spinegnawer

05-17-2013, 06:48 PM

you can spend literally hours walking around in Freeport, and more or less everyone loves you.

HeallunRumblebelly

05-17-2013, 09:58 PM

Sadre Spinegnawer

05-18-2013, 02:40 AM

lies.

i hear this expansionis geared toward the casual player.