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Stinkum
05-15-2013, 01:18 PM
Cool things a Paladin can do, you say?

http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/scale_small/0/1992/953940-class_paladin.jpg

#1 - Healing

First of all, take a step back and appreciate that you're a TANK class that can HEAL. Think about that: A tank that can HEAL.

http://i.imgur.com/zIvVdgw.png

And we are not talking some shitty Ranger heals here. You can heal as well as a Shaman or Druid in pure direct healing spells. Follow my flawless logic below for proof:

Premise:
-> Greater Healing: A 300-point heal for 150 Mana.
-> Shamans/Druids get it at 29
-> Paladins get it at 39
-> Shaman/Druids don't get a better heal until level 53 (Superior Healing)

Conclusion:
-> For levels 39-52, you can heal equal to the main secondary-healing classes in the game (Shaman/Druid)

Logic: Pristine.


http://blog.cmbinfo.com/Portals/75217/images/Guy%20thinking-resized-600.jpg

So you're saying I can tank, wear plate, have the same defensive skill caps as a SK, have more than fair DPS when I'm geared good.. and yet still heal as good as a Shaman or Druid?

YES!

Did I mention we also get a 90% REZ?


#2 - Nice guys of Norrath

Ever been level 1 just killing orc pawns or snakes in Neriak or Freeport and randomly get like 3 buffs?

Then you turn around to see who did it and a Paladin is sitting there staring at you like this:

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumblarge_536/1283724270HZAU8e.jpg

It's true. Scientific studies have shown 9 times out of 10 that person who buffed you was a Paladin.

Paladins are just nice dudes like that.

#3 - Stuns

Cool things a Paladin can do?

You mean like keep a mob completely stun locked for like 30 seconds straight?

You have the Deepwater Bracer Stun, Sword of the Morning procs, Divine Might procs, the level 30 "Stun" spell, Level 49 "Holy Might," Level 52 "Force." Add it all up and a Paladin has about 6-7 stuns in their arsenal, all on different cool down timers.

http://i.imgur.com/FkQitLc.png

Fighting in a dungeon where there's a lot of casters? Grab a well-skilled Paladin and I guarantee they ain't castin' on a *****.

#6 - '80s hair/Sexy Factor

'80s hair hot chick drawing, check.
Flaming Sword, check.
Half-Elf robocop helmet, check.
High Elf cat mask, check.
Dwarf summersaults for your group's entertainment, check.

http://i.imgur.com/eD9jiBW.jpg

#4 - Roll an Erudite Paladin and pretend you're the Paladin from Diablo II

'Nuff said.

http://www.d2tomb.com/images/paladin.jpg

#5 - Hipster Factor

Paladin is the most rare class in the game. To take up the sword against Sir Lucan is to truly be the underdog on a game where everything's already been done a million times over on every other class.


[ to be continued ]

Vaildez
05-15-2013, 01:27 PM
So just like in 1999 Pallys/Rangers are still the red headed step-children of norrath?

Sadre Spinegnawer
05-15-2013, 01:47 PM
I see nothing but win here.

SirAlvarex
05-15-2013, 01:53 PM
This is awesome.

Vaildez
05-15-2013, 01:58 PM
#2 FTW!

Nirgon
05-15-2013, 02:08 PM
You can spam DW helm a shaman, necro or someone with a mana robe.

You can spam stun (dw bracer) a caster mob that an enchanter pet is fighting (tash helps tons here, keeps pet from getting slowed too... which RUINS enchanter charm killing).

You can lay hands someone with 4-6 mobs on them and not die in areas you are xping (personally have lay hands'd an unconscious enchanter who fucked up a crypt pull here).

Pacify single pulling is no joke, esp when invis pulling is ever fixed. You can cast pacify line through walls.

Your deep water pants give you an str buff for yourself and the group (doesn't stack with shaman line), but is still pretty good.

Early levels outdoors you can blind a mob to "fear cc" it.

GREAT for healing an enchanter while they are trying to get everything mezzed. Ensures any early breaks (they don't break enough here imo) will result in pally, not healer aggro.

You have root for CC, if you're pro you can be a straight boss with this if you reroot mobs after 2 or so melee rounds and then each swing in between on the off targets.

You can snap aggro with your root as long as you stand closest.

If you're not the puller start with dw bracer -> divine might -> dw bracer again -> regular casted low lvl stun for a huge aggro grab that usually sees a mob down to 60-70% hp.

If your bash misses you have regular stun (don't use bash to dps unless melee mob.. really.. save it).

90% res when you're all leveled up isn't something most people would turn down.

Your resist line is handy as fuk to save others the annoyance (shamans/clerics in groups) of having to cast them. You don't get all of them, but, imagine if an SK got them.. yeah.. useful.

Your dps sucks until you get a primal, but still, compared to the other classes, it sucks. That's not your job though.

Roll a half elf tunare relgion for ezpz Nature's Defender in Velious (really only takes a group, yes I'm aware of the hate 2.0 part you could convince a guild to tag along I'm sure).

Sense the dead, situationally useful for finding necro/SK pals in zones or finding certain nameds.. situational and minor.

Yaulp: I don't think stamina loss works correctly here(?) but it was dope in live. Can't hate on it for blocking dispels/aoe's with dispel components if you're just starting or are a lazy scumbag. 40str does mighty fine to make up for racial disadvantage, atk speaks with itself.

Really just having root, pacify and being able to lock down casters is OP as shit imo. Velious really makes them strong, trust me. Just don't be tanking any raid mobs with em :P.

Splorf22
05-15-2013, 02:10 PM
Hey, you'll get nothing but pally love from me here. I even wrote in my enchanter guide that a paladin is my favorite group tank (slight edge over the SK) and in fact Paladin/Enchanter is a pretty reasonable duo if you want to get creative. Paladins are actually quite reasonable in small groups too by using their helm to heal.

My big problem with paladins is that they have no real raid role. About the best they can do is heal (poorly) on aoe dragons. If paladins could main tank raids I would totally be down to have one.

Malone88
05-15-2013, 02:12 PM
Only Erudites can use the "N" word...

Funkutron5000
05-15-2013, 02:13 PM
You can tank some raid mobs with paladins. I've personally tanked Fay, Sev, and Draco with minimal problems. Sure, it's not like I'm tanking some of the meaner mobs but being able to gain/ keep aggro without having to burn a midnight mallet is pretty darn nice with some of the raid encounters.

Nirgon
05-15-2013, 02:16 PM
My big problem with paladins is that they have no real raid role.

Lay hands is too f'ing good on progression or just in general.

Most "serious" players do not seem to roll paladin here, hence, why you may have a negative opinion of them.

I do a mean ranger also and trained Avon in the arts. He was able to duo with enchanters/wizards better than most classes. In fact, the ones who grouped with him would say they wouldn't have preferred another class.

Stinkum
05-15-2013, 02:50 PM
You guys nerded my thread up.

Nirgon
05-15-2013, 03:23 PM
I do that quite a bit

webrunner5
05-15-2013, 04:00 PM
Hey, the idea of a Paladin is sort of like a Ranger. They sound great on paper but just don't work out on here. It was not until AA's came out they got better. I have had like 5 of them on here and just gave up. Too bad. I guess if the Hybrid penalty was off I would go at one again.:D

Gadwen
05-15-2013, 04:07 PM
Haters gonna hate.

Senaiel
05-15-2013, 07:48 PM
Hey, you'll get nothing but pally love from me here. I even wrote in my enchanter guide that a paladin is my favorite group tank (slight edge over the SK) and in fact Paladin/Enchanter is a pretty reasonable duo if you want to get creative. Paladins are actually quite reasonable in small groups too by using their helm to heal.

My big problem with paladins is that they have no real raid role. About the best they can do is heal (poorly) on aoe dragons. If paladins could main tank raids I would totally be down to have one.

A talented paladin can be quite an effective raid class, you should know that :)

Faerie Blossom
05-15-2013, 08:27 PM
Brb guys; rerolling paladin.

webrunner5
05-15-2013, 11:27 PM
Brb guys; rerolling paladin.

You know you are going to hell for lying. :eek:

NecroForSale
05-16-2013, 07:06 AM
Hybrid penalty is the only stupid thing ruining the hybrids.

Estu
05-16-2013, 10:01 AM
Love this thread. Also, hybrid penalty will be gone come Velious~

Stinkum
06-14-2013, 05:50 PM
Bump

Beaniron
06-14-2013, 05:57 PM
Paladins actually get very nice HP/AC buffs in the late game on top of Superior Healing, Celestial Heal, and a 90% Res.

Resolution = 250HP
Symbol of Naltron = 400HP
Shield of Words

With the Resist Magic buff and all their possible Stuns, Paladins can stand strong against casters and keep them locked down when managed correctly.

Oh, and Pallies also get THE coolest looking Epic in the game.

kaev
06-14-2013, 07:01 PM
Oh, and Pallies also get THE coolest looking Epic in the game.

Disagree. Flaming sword particle effect looks like the heating element from a gas grill, not my idea of cool-looking. Looks-wise I'd take the Ranger epic over Paladin anyday. Sadly, my ranger will never be epic, although my Paladin will be soon[tm].


Saw a video of sword-making once in which the blade was quenched in oil after the final forging. Now that was cool, seeing those flames licking across the blackened blade, way better than the cartoony gas-grill we get in EQ.

Nlaar
06-14-2013, 07:37 PM
WTT 60 epiced SK for 60 epiced Pally ...

ps Senial just come back and play already yo.

Folopak
06-14-2013, 11:08 PM
I love my pally.

I would often start a kc group and I would helm heal and cc with root and once I able to break spawn with soothe anyone can pull.

One of the most fun groups I made was all monks and one rog. We downed mobs like nothing we couldn't pull them fast enough. And this was early morning when the zone is empty.

Yardcore
06-15-2013, 01:46 AM
haha great read :)

Scior
06-15-2013, 08:56 PM
Well said, I feel like making a paly now!

AexDestroy
06-15-2013, 11:15 PM
As one of, if not the oldest lasting Erudite paladin on the server, I support this thread.

pharmakos
06-16-2013, 12:02 PM
Cool things a Paladin can do, you say?

http://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/scale_small/0/1992/953940-class_paladin.jpg

#1 - Healing

First of all, take a step back and appreciate that you're a TANK class that can HEAL. Think about that: A tank that can HEAL.

http://i.imgur.com/zIvVdgw.png

And we are not talking some shitty Ranger heals here. You can heal as well as a Shaman or Druid in pure direct healing spells. Follow my flawless logic below for proof:

Premise:
-> Greater Healing: A 300-point heal for 150 Mana.
-> Shamans/Druids get it at 29
-> Paladins get it at 39
-> Shaman/Druids don't get a better heal until level 53 (Superior Healing)

Conclusion:
-> For levels 39-52, you can heal equal to the main secondary-healing classes in the game (Shaman/Druid)

Logic: Pristine.


http://blog.cmbinfo.com/Portals/75217/images/Guy%20thinking-resized-600.jpg

So you're saying I can tank, wear plate, have the same defensive skill caps as a SK, have more than fair DPS when I'm geared good.. and yet still heal as good as a Shaman or Druid?

YES!

Did I mention we also get a 90% REZ?


#2 - Nice guys of Norrath

Ever been level 1 just killing orc pawns or snakes in Neriak or Freeport and randomly get like 3 buffs?

Then you turn around to see who did it and a Paladin is sitting there staring at you like this:

http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumblarge_536/1283724270HZAU8e.jpg

It's true. Scientific studies have shown 9 times out of 10 that person who buffed you was a Paladin.

Paladins are just nice dudes like that.

#3 - Stuns

Cool things a Paladin can do?

You mean like keep a mob completely stun locked for like 30 seconds straight?

You have the Deepwater Bracer Stun, Sword of the Morning procs, Divine Might procs, the level 30 "Stun" spell, Level 49 "Holy Might," Level 52 "Force." Add it all up and a Paladin has about 6-7 stuns in their arsenal, all on different cool down timers.

http://i.imgur.com/FkQitLc.png

Fighting in a dungeon where there's a lot of casters? Grab a well-skilled Paladin and I guarantee they ain't castin' on a *****.

#6 - '80s hair/Sexy Factor

'80s hair hot chick drawing, check.
Flaming Sword, check.
Half-Elf robocop helmet, check.
High Elf cat mask, check.
Dwarf summersaults for your group's entertainment, check.

http://i.imgur.com/eD9jiBW.jpg

#4 - Roll an Erudite Paladin and pretend you're the Paladin from Diablo II

'Nuff said.

http://www.d2tomb.com/images/paladin.jpg

#5 - Hipster Factor

Paladin is the most rare class in the game. To take up the sword against Sir Lucan is to truly be the underdog on a game where everything's already been done a million times over on every other class.


[ to be continued ]

brb rerolling my main as a paladin

radditsu
06-16-2013, 12:06 PM
What's a paladin?

Beaniron
06-16-2013, 12:11 PM
What's a paladin?

If Everquest was Pulp Fiction, The Paladin will be Jules Winnfield.

Calibix
06-16-2013, 02:24 PM
Lol love this post.

All those cool things paladins can do are probably why most paladins suck at tanking. Too busy trying to be cool instead of using Flash of Light to hold agro. Similar to how most SK's are too busy trying to be cool to use Disease Cloud to hold agro.

Beaniron
06-16-2013, 03:04 PM
Lol love this post.

All those cool things paladins can do are probably why most paladins suck at tanking. Too busy trying to be cool instead of using Flash of Light to hold agro. Similar to how most SK's are too busy trying to be cool to use Disease Cloud to hold agro.

You mean Stun, not Flash of Light.

AexDestroy
06-16-2013, 03:10 PM
You mean Stun, not Flash of Light.

Nah man. Flash of light. 12 mana, fast cast, mass spammable.

Stun usues too much mana and its not instantly recastable. If you dont have Clarity of some kind you'll be making your group wait for you to med if you use Stun too much.

Beaniron
06-16-2013, 03:18 PM
Nah man. Flash of light. 12 mana, fast cast, mass spammable.

Stun usues too much mana and its not instantly recastable. If you dont have Clarity of some kind you'll be making your group wait for you to med if you use Stun too much.

Hmm, I'll have to try it out again.

Razdeline
06-16-2013, 03:56 PM
shadow vortex > darkness > disease cloud

KotBK
06-16-2013, 03:58 PM
just be sure to be close(st) to mob, as soon as it lands it enacts a proximity aggro type effect initially since it is blind.

Danth
06-16-2013, 03:58 PM
When P1999 opened, Flash of Light was broken and didn't work for aggro. Hence some Paladins got into the habit of not using it. Flash works now--it has for quite some time--and any Paladin should make liberal use of it.

Calibix's hunch is probably backwards with respect to the Shadow Knights, however. Disease Cloud has a recast timer and also isn't always desirable to use. As such, a Shadow Knight relies Disease Cloud exclusively for tanking will be fairly mediocre.

Danth

Calibix
06-16-2013, 07:28 PM
When P1999 opened, Flash of Light was broken and didn't work for aggro. Hence some Paladins got into the habit of not using it. Flash works now--it has for quite some time--and any Paladin should make liberal use of it.

Calibix's hunch is probably backwards with respect to the Shadow Knights, however. Disease Cloud has a recast timer and also isn't always desirable to use. As such, a Shadow Knight relies Disease Cloud exclusively for tanking will be fairly mediocre.

Danth

Its been quite awhile since I played an SK personally, but I'm fairly certain Disease Cloud is still your best bet for agro. Its recast is only 6s, which is negligible considering the amount of agro it generates. But your right, its not perfect for every situation, but it is the bread and butter agro skill for SK's.

I only started playing P99 about 2 months ago, so I was unaware of the FoL situation. Just in my experience on P99 I have not seen a single paladin hold agro well so it was mind boggling to me.

Vianna
06-16-2013, 08:54 PM
Its been quite awhile since I played an SK personally, but I'm fairly certain Disease Cloud is still your best bet for agro. Its recast is only 6s, which is negligible considering the amount of agro it generates. But your right, its not perfect for every situation, but it is the bread and butter agro skill for SK's.

I only started playing P99 about 2 months ago, so I was unaware of the FoL situation. Just in my experience on P99 I have not seen a single paladin hold agro well so it was mind boggling to me.

Yeah I leveled my cleric from 30 to 55 with a Paladin as tank solely because he never lost aggro with Flash of Light. Well he did on occasion but it usually took something like a bard or a wizard overnuking to take it from him. Flash of Light is hard to beat for aggro.

Asap
06-16-2013, 09:00 PM
You mean Stun, not Flash of Light.

lol, this guy

xcyberpeenixx
08-19-2013, 03:39 PM
Flash of Light is AMAZING!....when its not causing your mob to randomly teleport across the planet. wtfbbqpewpewroflcoptr. GG

runlvlzero
08-19-2013, 04:29 PM
Clerics are better IMO. Though pally is a fun class if you like being on the front lines.

runlvlzero
08-19-2013, 06:44 PM
Good post Stinkum. I Loled, Erude pally best pally.

Double post for the win.

oriestes
08-19-2013, 08:59 PM
I like the utility of paladins... plus group heals in velious to counteract aoe damage.

Tecmos Deception
08-19-2013, 09:00 PM
Velious group heal sucks :(

heals4reals
08-20-2013, 05:27 PM
=)

Weekapaug
08-20-2013, 09:56 PM
So just like in 1999 Pallys/Rangers are still the red headed step-children of norrath?

I don't know what server you were on but in 99 on Bertox you couldn't throw a rock without hitting a pally or ranger. Everybody wanted to be Luke Skywalker or Aragorn.

SKs were the rarest overall, with bards next. Tons of blue bard twinks under 30 but a high level main was pretty rare.

Weekapaug
08-20-2013, 09:58 PM
Velious group heal sucks :(

It's best for pulling aggro as opposed to actual healing.

webrunner5
08-21-2013, 01:28 AM
Paladins suck in Velious also. They just can't kill anything there also. If they are the only DPS in your group you are in for a LONG ass fight. :eek:

thugcruncher
08-21-2013, 01:42 AM
Paladins suck in Velious also. They just can't kill anything there also. If they are the only DPS in your group you are in for a LONG ass fight. :eek:

I don't think that's technically a group.

Splorf22
08-21-2013, 01:51 AM
Save let me play his paladin for a bit today. I think they are pretty solid for xp groups. Great aggro, dps is better than advertised (with the epic 40-45 compared to sakuragi at ~60-65). But most importantly when the shit hits the fan you have root, stun, and heal which give you a lot of flexibility. Warriors hit the taunt key and pray. And in the worst case you have 90% xp rez. If paladins got defensive disc or something close, they would be fine as is. If they got defensive disc and their velious enhancements, they'd be excellent. As is, they are great group tanks and kinda worthless on raids.

Kevynne
08-21-2013, 02:03 AM
Save let me play his paladin for a bit today. I think they are pretty solid for xp groups. Great aggro, dps is better than advertised (with the epic 40-45 compared to sakuragi at ~60-65). But most importantly when the shit hits the fan you have root, stun, and heal which give you a lot of flexibility. Warriors hit the taunt key and pray. And in the worst case you have 90% xp rez. If paladins got defensive disc or something close, they would be fine as is. If they got defensive disc and their velious enhancements, they'd be excellent. As is, they are great group tanks and kinda worthless on raids.

Backup heals +LH on raids.

On raids they heal the sameq as a Druid or shaman.

Lorraine
08-21-2013, 03:29 AM
Paladins suck in Velious also. They just can't kill anything there also. If they are the only DPS in your group you are in for a LONG ass fight. :eek:


I bet at some point, somewhere, a hybrid brutally murdered your family...

senna
08-21-2013, 03:37 AM
I bet at some point, somewhere, a hybrid brutally murdered your family...

That guy posts garbage about velious like it was his job

webrunner5
08-21-2013, 09:34 AM
That guy posts garbage about velious like it was his job

It is not garbage. Velious mobs have a LOT more HP than Kunark mobs, so if you can't kill shit on one now what changes in Velious?? Better gear and weapons, every class gets that. Why are they the LEAST played class on here? They just suck at DPS.

They make pretty good pullers in Velious and not bad assisting the Main tank. But they have no good damage midigation like a Warrior or Monk so they get the crap beat out of them.

I KNOW a lot about Velious because I have played this game nonstop since the very beginning of 2000. I play P1999, Live, EQMac and the Sleeper server right now. I am retired and play 12 to 14 hours a day. I sort of know a little bit about EQ, It is the only game I play. I have a Paladin on every server I play. So I know what they can and can not do.

Lorraine
08-21-2013, 10:17 AM
It is not garbage. Velious mobs have a LOT more HP than Kunark mobs, so if you can't kill shit on one now what changes in Velious?? Better gear and weapons, every class gets that. Why are they the LEAST played class on here? They just suck at DPS.

They make pretty good pullers in Velious and not bad assisting the Main tank. But they have no good damage midigation like a Warrior or Monk so they get the crap beat out of them.

I KNOW a lot about Velious because I have played this game nonstop since the very beginning of 2000. I play P1999, Live, EQMac and the Sleeper server right now. I am retired and play 12 to 14 hours a day. I sort of know a little bit about EQ, It is the only game I play. I have a Paladin on every server I play. So I know what they can and can not do.


You make no sense. What matters if Velious mobs have a lot more HP than Kunark mobs? So did in Luclin and in Planes of Powers and on and on... A paladins job has never been and will never be to DPS. It is to tank. And in a group setting, I AM the best TANK that you can have. Why? Because I can pull AND hold agro on mutliple mobs while the shaman is cycling through them and Malo/Slow them one by one. Or the enchanter debuffs and mezzes them at his leisure. And I can do all that without holding any weapons what so ever. Can I survive through such a pull? Hell yea I can, if my Cleric is a baller, I don't even have to use my own cooldowns too.

Why people don't play them? Because the have an exp penalty. And like all melee classes they are gear dependent. So quite a lot of them give up on paladins (like a lot of hybrids) half way through.
Why hybrids have a bad name? It's because of people who decide it's time to play one, and not even bother to research/observe what the class can do. They believe that by strapping on a fungi and some dragon haste, along with a 30k weapon, they can breeze through content and have constant group invites because they are beastly tanks (for knight classes), DPS (for rangers), or Utility (for bards). Well, it kinda doesn't work like that, because as it has been said countless times here, mob difficulty scales quite faster than the gear you actually got by spending a couple hundred Ks platinum.


TL ; DR Your negativity is what's wrong with the treatment hybrids are getting here. Take a look at people who played paladins or rangers or bards as their MAINS back in Beta/Classic and have stuck with them all the way through Velious/SoL/PoP and so on. These veterans are what defines the class. Not the idiot who just trained your CE group in Mistmoore cause he's wearing better gear than 99% of the rest of the classes on the server.

webrunner5
08-21-2013, 10:30 AM
Then if you are the Tank and can't DPS like you said who is going to kill the mobs, the Cleric? :rolleyes: Your post just mirrored what I said in my post.

A Iksar Monk has a 44% XP penalty and guess what tons of people play them. Your funny.

Aaron
08-21-2013, 10:46 AM
Then if you are the Tank and can't DPS like you said who is going to kill the mobs, the Cleric? :rolleyes: Your post just mirrored what I said in my post.

A Iksar Monk has a 44% XP penalty and guess what tons of people play them. Your funny.

Did you know that a group is composed of more than a tank and a cleric?

Estu
08-21-2013, 11:23 AM
Did you know that a group is composed of more than a tank and a cleric?

Nirgon
08-21-2013, 11:25 AM
Paladins are the best tank for anything that doesn't require defensive imo

Splorf22
08-21-2013, 11:48 AM
/GU Combined: Elementalbone skeleton in 1168s, 99k @85dps --- A sepulcher skeleton 55k @57dps (55.26%) --- Snoogan 41k @35dps (41.15%) --- Save 3k @3dps (2.65%) --- Azzudnam 1k @1dps (0.95%)

First, their dps isn't terrible. I'm not going to call that great, either, but its not THAT bad. Snoogan is a 60 epic paladin with VoG and a RBB (so not even haste capped). In comparison Sakuragi is good for 55 or so (and getting the warrior epic/sky belt is WAY harder than the equivalent paladin gear). Second, a good group is putting out 200+ dps. Adding a warrior is good for a 10% dps boost - nontrivial, but not make or break either. This was my first outing on a paladin, and already I figured out a ton of stuff to do:

Buff both the enchanter and shaman with reso/naltron because we had no cleric. +600HP definitely saved both of them at one point or another
Stun at the end of the slow tick, thus making a 75% slow into an 80-85% slow
Chainstun so I took 0 damage until the mob was slowed
Chainstun casters so they didn't get a single spell off
Heal myself a few times during downtime, although I wasn't really taking much damage. But I think I got about 5 torpors the whole night, making Azz free to DPS
Hold aggro effortlessly with flash of light, divine might, FD procs, and the L4 stun. I didn't even use the taunt key :cool:
Heal the enchanter when he got in trouble
Stun the enchanter's pet on charm breaks
Root for a little additional CC every now and then
DA pull to effortlessly burn off a few harmtouches
LoH to save the situation every now and again
90% Rez (cause we did wipe once when calm wasn't lasting as long as we thought it did)
Deepwater helm spam on our shaman when we rezzed him through the door


I don't think we would have done as well with Sakuragi, and that is versus a 60 warrior with the epic, vp offhand, sky haste, and vog/shaman dex. At lower levels with worse gear and worse buffs, the paladin would come out way ahead. I certainly don't regret making a warrior; Paladins are pretty mediocre in raids IMO. But for 3-6 man groups I think they are quite solid.

P.S. We scored the Fluid Hat Trick with one veil, one hoop, and one reaper!

Arteker
08-21-2013, 05:19 PM
/GU Combined: Elementalbone skeleton in 1168s, 99k @85dps --- A sepulcher skeleton 55k @57dps (55.26%) --- Snoogan 41k @35dps (41.15%) --- Save 3k @3dps (2.65%) --- Azzudnam 1k @1dps (0.95%)

First, their dps isn't terrible. I'm not going to call that great, either, but its not THAT bad. Snoogan is a 60 epic paladin with VoG and a RBB (so not even haste capped). In comparison Sakuragi is good for 55 or so (and getting the warrior epic/sky belt is WAY harder than the equivalent paladin gear). Second, a good group is putting out 200+ dps. Adding a warrior is good for a 10% dps boost - nontrivial, but not make or break either. This was my first outing on a paladin, and already I figured out a ton of stuff to do:

Buff both the enchanter and shaman with reso/naltron because we had no cleric. +600HP definitely saved both of them at one point or another
Stun at the end of the slow tick, thus making a 75% slow into an 80-85% slow
Chainstun so I took 0 damage until the mob was slowed
Chainstun casters so they didn't get a single spell off
Heal myself a few times during downtime, although I wasn't really taking much damage. But I think I got about 5 torpors the whole night, making Azz free to DPS
Hold aggro effortlessly with flash of light, divine might, FD procs, and the L4 stun. I didn't even use the taunt key :cool:
Heal the enchanter when he got in trouble
Stun the enchanter's pet on charm breaks
Root for a little additional CC every now and then
DA pull to effortlessly burn off a few harmtouches
LoH to save the situation every now and again
90% Rez (cause we did wipe once when calm wasn't lasting as long as we thought it did)
Deepwater helm spam on our shaman when we rezzed him through the door


I don't think we would have done as well with Sakuragi, and that is versus a 60 warrior with the epic, vp offhand, sky haste, and vog/shaman dex. At lower levels with worse gear and worse buffs, the paladin would come out way ahead. I certainly don't regret making a warrior; Paladins are pretty mediocre in raids IMO. But for 3-6 man groups I think they are quite solid.

P.S. We scored the Fluid Hat Trick with one veil, one hoop, and one reaper!

in have healed enough times ur stinki war in vp to know u dont die unless u run oor like last time with nexona :p

sure that isnt torpor or ch still its a 500ish heal and i still have 3k mana in regular tank gear:rolleyes:

heals4reals
08-21-2013, 05:29 PM
Im very excited to play a paladin

Adolphus
08-21-2013, 10:44 PM
I'll keep this simple.

There's nothing wrong with Paladin in theory. There is something terribly wrong with the AC mechanic on Project 1999. Paladin's rely heavily on AC to be viable as a tank.

I had a Paladin in live. I rolled a Paladin here. It's not the same. Paladin's are incredibly weak relative to live. AC is just not something that the developers here have been able to figure out or address yet. If you doubt it, try doing stress tests with high AC vs zero AC on any of your toons. You'll be surprised to see the results if you weren't already aware.

Maybe it'll be (more)* viable in the future as a tank!


*Edited text

Lorraine
08-22-2013, 12:53 AM
I'll keep this simple.

There's nothing wrong with Paladin in theory. There is something terribly wrong with the AC mechanic on Project 1999. Paladin's rely heavily on AC to be viable as a tank.

I had a Paladin in live. I rolled a Paladin here. It's not the same. Paladin's are incredibly weak relative to live. AC is just not something that the developers here have been able to figure out or address yet. If you doubt it, try doing stress tests with high AC vs zero AC on any of your toons. You'll be surprised to see the results if you weren't already aware.

Maybe it'll be viable in the future!



AC is a mechanism that affects every class in the game and not just Paladins. Noone's pointing at you and saying "Roflmao AC is broken, now you're useless".

We survive pretty much like everyone else does.
Confirmed still viable.

Adolphus
08-22-2013, 03:09 AM
AC is a mechanism that affects every class in the game and not just Paladins. Noone's pointing at you and saying "Roflmao AC is broken, now you're useless".

We survive pretty much like everyone else does.
Confirmed still viable.

I mentioned that AC being broken affects every class in the above post - but I understand the confusion here.

Allow me to clarify: first, I never mocked, insulted or laughed at the idea that Paladin is severely damaged by the broken mechanic. And I don't think Paladin is useless by any means. Nor do I think that people should not play Paladin due to a game mechanic being broken. Rather, people should play the class they enjoy most regardless of mechanics and penalties. Implying it wasn't "viable" was overreaching on my part. It can still be viable as a tank.

That being said, approaching the class with a good attitude does not excuse the glaring, non-classic issue that has plagued it since the beginning of the server. AC being broken affects Paladins more than any other class, because AC is the Paladin's primary stat for tanking. The Paladin doesn't have the HP of a warrior and/or the Disc's. It doesn't mean that Paladin's can't tank - but it does mean they are at a significant disadvantage relative to their counterparts at this time.

I am rooting for Paladin's here - I love the class. I played one in live. But if we choose to blissfully ignore and/or criticize those who point out this non-classic flaw with AC that adversely affects Paladin's, then I feel we're doing a disservice to the potential of the class. It's not to dissuade people from playing the class that I bring this up - it's just telling a truth about the state of the class that most people aren't aware of. Some people may appreciate knowing this kind of thing prior to rolling a Paladin on this server. I certainly would have appreciated it.

Estolcles
08-22-2013, 03:26 AM
I played a Pally on Live, and play a Pally on here, and I can tell you, it's a challenge to play, but totally worth it. That is, if you like challenges.

Clark
08-22-2013, 04:32 AM
You can spam DW helm a shaman, necro or someone with a mana robe.

You can spam stun (dw bracer) a caster mob that an enchanter pet is fighting (tash helps tons here, keeps pet from getting slowed too... which RUINS enchanter charm killing).

You can lay hands someone with 4-6 mobs on them and not die in areas you are xping (personally have lay hands'd an unconscious enchanter who fucked up a crypt pull here).

Pacify single pulling is no joke, esp when invis pulling is ever fixed. You can cast pacify line through walls.

Your deep water pants give you an str buff for yourself and the group (doesn't stack with shaman line), but is still pretty good.

Early levels outdoors you can blind a mob to "fear cc" it.

GREAT for healing an enchanter while they are trying to get everything mezzed. Ensures any early breaks (they don't break enough here imo) will result in pally, not healer aggro.

You have root for CC, if you're pro you can be a straight boss with this if you reroot mobs after 2 or so melee rounds and then each swing in between on the off targets.

You can snap aggro with your root as long as you stand closest.

If you're not the puller start with dw bracer -> divine might -> dw bracer again -> regular casted low lvl stun for a huge aggro grab that usually sees a mob down to 60-70% hp.

If your bash misses you have regular stun (don't use bash to dps unless melee mob.. really.. save it).

90% res when you're all leveled up isn't something most people would turn down.

Your resist line is handy as fuk to save others the annoyance (shamans/clerics in groups) of having to cast them. You don't get all of them, but, imagine if an SK got them.. yeah.. useful.

Your dps sucks until you get a primal, but still, compared to the other classes, it sucks. That's not your job though.

Roll a half elf tunare relgion for ezpz Nature's Defender in Velious (really only takes a group, yes I'm aware of the hate 2.0 part you could convince a guild to tag along I'm sure).

Sense the dead, situationally useful for finding necro/SK pals in zones or finding certain nameds.. situational and minor.

Yaulp: I don't think stamina loss works correctly here(?) but it was dope in live. Can't hate on it for blocking dispels/aoe's with dispel components if you're just starting or are a lazy scumbag. 40str does mighty fine to make up for racial disadvantage, atk speaks with itself.

Really just having root, pacify and being able to lock down casters is OP as shit imo. Velious really makes them strong, trust me. Just don't be tanking any raid mobs with em :P.

good post by you both, so important the correct roles are followed for certain situations

http://s16.postimg.org/kug7r1vud/zzzzz.png

Clark
08-22-2013, 04:36 AM
/GU Combined: Elementalbone skeleton in 1168s, 99k @85dps --- A sepulcher skeleton 55k @57dps (55.26%) --- Snoogan 41k @35dps (41.15%) --- Save 3k @3dps (2.65%) --- Azzudnam 1k @1dps (0.95%)

First, their dps isn't terrible. I'm not going to call that great, either, but its not THAT bad. Snoogan is a 60 epic paladin with VoG and a RBB (so not even haste capped). In comparison Sakuragi is good for 55 or so (and getting the warrior epic/sky belt is WAY harder than the equivalent paladin gear). Second, a good group is putting out 200+ dps. Adding a warrior is good for a 10% dps boost - nontrivial, but not make or break either. This was my first outing on a paladin, and already I figured out a ton of stuff to do:

Buff both the enchanter and shaman with reso/naltron because we had no cleric. +600HP definitely saved both of them at one point or another
Stun at the end of the slow tick, thus making a 75% slow into an 80-85% slow
Chainstun so I took 0 damage until the mob was slowed
Chainstun casters so they didn't get a single spell off
Heal myself a few times during downtime, although I wasn't really taking much damage. But I think I got about 5 torpors the whole night, making Azz free to DPS
Hold aggro effortlessly with flash of light, divine might, FD procs, and the L4 stun. I didn't even use the taunt key :cool:
Heal the enchanter when he got in trouble
Stun the enchanter's pet on charm breaks
Root for a little additional CC every now and then
DA pull to effortlessly burn off a few harmtouches
LoH to save the situation every now and again
90% Rez (cause we did wipe once when calm wasn't lasting as long as we thought it did)
Deepwater helm spam on our shaman when we rezzed him through the door


I don't think we would have done as well with Sakuragi, and that is versus a 60 warrior with the epic, vp offhand, sky haste, and vog/shaman dex. At lower levels with worse gear and worse buffs, the paladin would come out way ahead. I certainly don't regret making a warrior; Paladins are pretty mediocre in raids IMO. But for 3-6 man groups I think they are quite solid.

P.S. We scored the Fluid Hat Trick with one veil, one hoop, and one reaper!

Lorraine
08-22-2013, 05:27 AM
I mentioned that AC being broken affects every class in the above post - but I understand the confusion here.

Allow me to clarify: first, I never mocked, insulted or laughed at the idea that Paladin is severely damaged by the broken mechanic. And I don't think Paladin is useless by any means. Nor do I think that people should not play Paladin due to a game mechanic being broken. Rather, people should play the class they enjoy most regardless of mechanics and penalties. Implying it wasn't "viable" was overreaching on my part. It can still be viable as a tank.

That being said, approaching the class with a good attitude does not excuse the glaring, non-classic issue that has plagued it since the beginning of the server. AC being broken affects Paladins more than any other class, because AC is the Paladin's primary stat for tanking. The Paladin doesn't have the HP of a warrior and/or the Disc's. It doesn't mean that Paladin's can't tank - but it does mean they are at a significant disadvantage relative to their counterparts at this time.

I am rooting for Paladin's here - I love the class. I played one in live. But if we choose to blissfully ignore and/or criticize those who point out this non-classic flaw with AC that adversely affects Paladin's, then I feel we're doing a disservice to the potential of the class. It's not to dissuade people from playing the class that I bring this up - it's just telling a truth about the state of the class that most people aren't aware of. Some people may appreciate knowing this kind of thing prior to rolling a Paladin on this server. I certainly would have appreciated it.



AC is a primary stat for every tanking class. Personally I rank HP/Sta higher than AC, as I do resists. We're in the same boat as shadowknights, only they can go large races for some stat boosts and paladins can't.

The thing is that according to peoples personal experiences (mine included) and parses, AC 'appears' not to be working as intended. It is still an important stat and shouldn't be overlooked (imo) but it is not a deciding factor for the Knight class, in a way that we always had and always will have less AC and HP when compared to equally geared warriors. This fact did not change.

Even if AC was 'working as intended', raids wouldn't allow paladins to tank Baazt Zzzt or Hoshkar or any quad hitting raid boss for that matter. Mallets and discs are what's required for them. And even if AC was 'working as intended' paladins wouldn't exactly get 10 group invites the minute they log in. People would still hold prejudice against the class in a way.

You know what else people report 'broken' ? Warrior threat generation. There are way more posts and a LOT of warriors asking what they need to do in order to keep mob attention onto them instead of the support/dps classes. And there were quite a few who swear by the Bible that warriors used to build and hold agro way better and easier back in live than they do here.

What people don't pay a lot of attention to though is this...
a ) In Live, Kunark was around for 8 months. In here it's been close to 3 years. That's a very long time for people to actually sit down and try to analyze things.
b ) In Live, during Kunark, rogues under 30 with Ragebringers or Monks under 30 with CoF/Tstaff were the 0,0001%. In here they are the 95% (exaggerating to make a point).
c ) Midnight Mallets.

We 'win' some, we 'lose' some. Hybrids are still a ton of fun to play, if you stick with them and learn the 'tools of the trade'. Watching a veteran bard or knight (or even ranger) go to 'work' is a thing of beauty. Rare as hell though.

Erasong
08-22-2013, 08:40 AM
As one of the OG, flame sword swinging, dark elf palies on this server, i support this thread.

webrunner5
08-22-2013, 10:59 AM
I think AC sort of works on here level 45 plus. Below 45 I can't see a lot difference.

I remember on raids it took a pretty good amount of time for the Main Tank Warrior to get agro and start to push. I was a main tank healer Cleric on a lot of raids and it got pretty scary at times. Lots of people died before he got agro. :eek: Rez hell. :(

mesquash
08-22-2013, 12:16 PM
Pallys are an awesome duo partner with a Shaman. Playing the Shaman, I can slow, DoT, Nuke at will with no chance of getting aggro. Then you get a heal bot when you canni down? SHA / PAL for the win.

Weekapaug
08-22-2013, 12:30 PM
Pallys are an awesome duo partner with a Shaman. Playing the Shaman, I can slow, DoT, Nuke at will with no chance of getting aggro. Then you get a heal bot when you canni down? SHA / PAL for the win.

My friend and I played that duo quite a bit even into later eras of the game. Worked very well when you get in a groove. Our other friend played a druid and the pally said they did quite well duo, also. I'm guessing the DS makes up for the lack of slow.

Splorf22
08-22-2013, 12:30 PM
On Sakuragi I noticed a huge, huge difference aggro-wise between the Sarnak Warhammer/Silken Whip and the Howling Cutlass/Malevolent Runeblade that I bought from TMO. The biggest problem warriors have is that the monk and rogue epics are so fucking trivial that you have to pit your mediocre weapons against their epic shit. Once you get comparable weapons, things are OK again.

P.S. STINKY?

Arteker
08-23-2013, 12:06 AM
On Sakuragi I noticed a huge, huge difference aggro-wise between the Sarnak Warhammer/Silken Whip and the Howling Cutlass/Malevolent Runeblade that I bought from TMO. The biggest problem warriors have is that the monk and rogue epics are so fucking trivial that you have to pit your mediocre weapons against their epic shit. Once you get comparable weapons, things are OK again.

P.S. STINKY?

iksars stinks , why do you think they come with diaper.

Skittlez
09-19-2013, 04:53 PM
Reviving thread.

This inspired my Paladin.

I fucking love it.

JackFlash
09-19-2013, 04:55 PM
A+ Thread revival. Would read again.

Sidelle
09-19-2013, 06:29 PM
Lol! You had me at 80s hair/sexy factor. A+ thread.

Aviann
09-19-2013, 07:11 PM
My guide to life in Norrath.

Lordwhiskers
09-20-2013, 02:27 PM
Making a pally this afternoon. First toon on live...but yeah, difficult class to play. Thanks for the killer inspiration to give it another go.

webrunner5
09-20-2013, 02:42 PM
Making a pally this afternoon. First toon on live...but yeah, difficult class to play. Thanks for the killer inspiration to give it another go.

Great, now there will be 11 Pally's playing. :rolleyes:

hatelore
11-03-2013, 11:36 PM
Its been quite awhile since I played an SK personally, but I'm fairly certain Disease Cloud is still your best bet for agro. Its recast is only 6s, which is negligible considering the amount of agro it generates. But your right, its not perfect for every situation, but it is the bread and butter agro skill for SK's.

I only started playing P99 about 2 months ago, so I was unaware of the FoL situation. Just in my experience on P99 I have not seen a single paladin hold agro well so it was mind boggling to me.

disease cloud + shadow vortex = aggro win.

webrunner5
11-04-2013, 06:44 AM
Tip of the day. If you HAVE a Paladin delete it. If you are thinking of starting one, Don't. :D

There are more Rangers on this server than Paladins.. Think about it, Rangers. That might tell you something about Pally's.

I will repeat this "tip of the day" for the next 30 days just in case some FOOL misses it.

Swish
11-04-2013, 06:52 AM
A paladin will always be in a cleric's shadow.
A SK is never in a necro's shadow :p

Erasong
11-04-2013, 08:01 AM
might have to make elaida the paladin 2.0!

SyanideGas
11-04-2013, 08:29 AM
This post was pretty good

Winobot
11-15-2013, 08:32 PM
might have to make elaida the paladin 2.0!

If you ever want Elaida 1.0 back, let me know.

Skittlez
11-15-2013, 09:26 PM
Paladins are the back bone of P99. Anyone that says otherwise is a dumb bitch.










<3

Efwan
11-16-2013, 02:43 AM
Paladins are the back bone of P99. Anyone that says otherwise is a dumb bitch.










<3

I second this motion

Skittlez
11-16-2013, 05:57 AM
I second this motion

I got more gear for youuuuussss

Efwan
11-16-2013, 03:38 PM
I'll be on in a couple hours :p

Skittlez
11-16-2013, 09:36 PM
I won't be on till late or tomorrow. Friends birthday today!

Joseppi
11-17-2013, 12:37 AM
A paladin will always be in a cleric's shadow.
A SK is never in a necro's shadow :p

:D

kotton05
11-17-2013, 05:12 AM
I see nothing but win here.

Yumyums Inmahtumtums
11-17-2013, 07:11 AM
Paladins are the back bone of P99. Anyone that says otherwise is a dumb bitch.










<3

Loves me dem pally's

Erasong
11-19-2013, 05:27 PM
If you ever want Elaida 1.0 back, let me know.

been looking for you sir.

Andervin
11-19-2013, 06:58 PM
Aradune was a Paladin... just sayin.

Lowlife
11-19-2013, 11:25 PM
Aradune was a Paladin... just sayin.

No he wasn't. He was a ranger.

pharmakos
11-19-2013, 11:46 PM
true story

ranger that wore green plate and had a fiery avenger

Lowlife
11-19-2013, 11:50 PM
http://oi40.tinypic.com/11htcg3.jpg

Andervin
11-19-2013, 11:52 PM
No he wasn't. He was a ranger.

Looks like a buckethead to me. :D
http://i.imgur.com/x6mze.jpg

Danger
11-20-2013, 01:05 AM
Correct, a human ranger.

fishingme
11-20-2013, 11:00 AM
It is not garbage. Velious mobs have a LOT more HP than Kunark mobs, so if you can't kill shit on one now what changes in Velious?? Better gear and weapons, every class gets that. Why are they the LEAST played class on here? They just suck at DPS.

They make pretty good pullers in Velious and not bad assisting the Main tank. But they have no good damage midigation like a Warrior or Monk so they get the crap beat out of them.

I KNOW a lot about Velious because I have played this game nonstop since the very beginning of 2000. I play P1999, Live, EQMac and the Sleeper server right now. I am retired and play 12 to 14 hours a day. I sort of know a little bit about EQ, It is the only game I play. I have a Paladin on every server I play. So I know what they can and can not do.

paladins get crititical hit vs undead in velious.

dragolyche
11-20-2013, 12:22 PM
paladins get crititical hit vs undead in velious.

Wrong, in Luclin with AA.

Lagaidh
11-20-2013, 12:45 PM
I haven't read anything but the title, but all I have to say is:

We don't need defending, capice? We do the defending.

For Brell's sake man! Respect yourself!

Lagaidh
11-20-2013, 12:50 PM
Hey, the idea of a Paladin is sort of like a Ranger. They sound great on paper but just don't work out on here

Statements like this (after having spent well over 330 days in DWF PAL skin) make think two things:

Is this guy playing the same game I am?
What in the hell am I missing here?


I truly believe every class is worth having around if played well. You can min/max and state who is the best at a given task by the numbers, but I find the player makes up for most anything...

Aviann
11-20-2013, 01:19 PM
I see a lot of people who haven't grouped with a decent paladin. It is enough to shake my head at.

Xadion
11-20-2013, 01:20 PM
Frodilbo agrees with this thread

Erasong
11-20-2013, 01:27 PM
Statements like this (after having spent well over 330 days in DWF PAL skin) make think two things:

Is this guy playing the same game I am?
What in the hell am I missing here?


I truly believe every class is worth having around if played well. You can min/max and state who is the best at a given task by the numbers, but I find the player makes up for most anything...

I dont buy into this player skill > class thing. I DO however think that if two classes are CLOSE in something.. the player skill can make up the difference. I agree with the every class is worth having around camp.

Lagaidh
11-20-2013, 02:34 PM
I dont buy into this player skill > class thing. I DO however think that if two classes are CLOSE in something.. the player skill can make up the difference. I agree with the every class is worth having around camp.

Sure like I said, there are the obvious greats at given tasks... still I'd rather have a group of good players and a weird group make-up than the 'perfect' mix with just one idiot in the group.

Different play styles. /shrug

Xadion
11-20-2013, 03:06 PM
Ranger friend on live was such an insanely good ranger... I only knew rangers through him for years untill we got into big guilds and such- we mostly did things as our RL group in classic and most of kunark... I was shocked by how shitty rangers where. I would constantly ask rangers in groups and guild to do stuff that he did all the time and they all thought I was crazy.

Skill in EQ was very much a thing- now days even on p99 it is less because there are so many guides etc on how to play each class- back in the day people had to figure out the "oddities" and little work arounds of their class themselves.

Cecily
11-20-2013, 03:37 PM
Sure like I said, there are the obvious greats at given tasks... still I'd rather have a group of good players and a weird group make-up than the 'perfect' mix with just one idiot in the group.

Different play styles. /shrug

Rogue, Necro, Mage group kills surprisingly fast! Also, glad those online journalism credits are working out for you, Stinkum. I'm impressed, very professional. It's just like cracked.com, minus the humor.

pharmakos
11-20-2013, 06:07 PM
paladins get crititical hit vs undead in velious.

Wrong, in Luclin with AA.

someone pulled up some proof that it actually was in Velious

proof was from the old Afterlife website i think

Aviann
11-20-2013, 06:25 PM
someone pulled up some proof that it actually was in Velious

proof was from the old Afterlife website i think

I'm curious to see the details on this, if its possible to find

Arteker
11-20-2013, 06:56 PM
I'm curious to see the details on this, if its possible to find

paladins can : /disc holyforge - while this disc is up paladins can score regular crits in normal players or npcs, if the target is undead u can score a crippling blow.

it only work while using the named discipline up.

http://crucible.samanna.net/viewtopic.php?t=4603

i think this can help you better than my poor english skills into what was slay udnead and the use of this disc since in pop both where changed.

Pint
11-20-2013, 09:10 PM
Increases crit chance by 200% and increases crippling blow chance by 20% and lasts 2 minutes then later in 2001 lasts 5 minutes? Sounds way too good to be true.

pharmakos
11-21-2013, 01:56 AM
paladins can : /disc holyforge - while this disc is up paladins can score regular crits in normal players or npcs, if the target is undead u can score a crippling blow.

it only work while using the named discipline up.

http://crucible.samanna.net/viewtopic.php?t=4603

i think this can help you better than my poor english skills into what was slay udnead and the use of this disc since in pop both where changed.

pretty sure this is exactly what i was thinking of, thank you

Arteker
11-21-2013, 02:28 AM
pretty sure this is exactly what i was thinking of, thank you

bare in mind this is the updated version the pop one.
original disc was quite different and was more in line with rng , when they added slay undead and crit aas this disc in luclin was prety broken.


original slay was 50% chance on regular critic turning into a slay aka soandso holy cleanse for xxxx. if u added original holyforge disc u got even more chances to proc on regular crits didint work with crippling blows from the disc.


it was a prety much messed up disc since velious wich wasnt touched much(even we can say broken) because it give paladins some short of fake sense of omg big hits ala warrior .

u could get at all 0 crits or crips for the time of the disc being up. but was funny when random monkey war would get a 500ish crit

Erasong
12-07-2013, 02:57 AM
necro'ed.

51 paladin lfg.