Classic SOE Overnerf

[Modus]

Yall are keepin' it classic! But maybe not in the way you intended...

Experience rate is about half of that in classic EverQuest, as it stands right now.

I know you'll probably reply with some knee-jerk "You dont remember classic" reply, but believe me, I 3-box-power-leveled characters on Ebay during classic to pay for my first car. I have a pretty firm grip on the experience gain of every class, at every level range, in the classic era.

Something since the exp patch has caused a significant miscalculation in experience gain.

A solid, efficient 6-person group should gain 1 yellow an hour at lvl 20+. An efficient duo or trio, especially of pet classes, can gain up to twice this or more. Currently experience gain is half or 1/3rd that rate.

Please look into this before discrediting my judgment.

[Modus]

This miscalculation is effecting groups, even if the level disparity is just 1-3 levels.

[Smuuglie]

I strongly agree... Level disparity is an insane exp sink, not to mention overall exp gain being very low for soloers...

[Bumamgar]

The experience awarded to a full group has not changed since before the patch. Only the division of that experience amongst the group members was adjusted.

The experience awarded to solo players has not changed since before the patch.

However, light blue mobs (which shouldn't even exist, per classic con system) have had their experience awards significantly reduced. I suggest seeking more level appropriate challenges.

[Haynar]

Yall are keepin' it classic! But maybe not in the way you intended...

Experience rate is about half of that in classic EverQuest, as it stands right now.

As it was before (I dont know about now), I thought exp is about half of what classic was. I thought I remembered something about it should take 23 even con mobs per level. I don't know where I remember that from.

I have too many things I am working on, so I don't have time to find the data on this.

Find it. Prove it. And maybe it will get changed. Bum is working on the exp stuff, so it's not me you need to convince.

Haynar

[Smuuglie]

The experience awarded to solo players has not changed since before the patch.


Then something went wrong somewhere.

[Arriva]

Classic is classic.

Done is done.

Get over it.

[Bumamgar]

Then something went wrong somewhere.

Provide some data to back up your claims.

For starters, what class and race are you?

What level are you?

What con/level are the mobs you are killing?

[Striiker]

The experience awarded to a full group has not changed since before the patch. Only the division of that experience amongst the group members was adjusted.

The experience awarded to solo players has not changed since before the patch.

...


Which patch on P99 contained adjustments to the experience system? I looked over the past few change logs and couldn't see any mention of it. Thanks!

[Tseng]

Time to stash the Troll SK methinks

[Oogmog]

Provide some data to back up your claims.

For starters, what class and race are you?

What level are you?

What con/level are the mobs you are killing?

I'm just going to say this. I really appreciate the work that's being done by the developers, etc, I know it's a job with very little gratification... when something goes good very little thanks but when something is bad the flood gates open and I do understand that. But ... as we proved with the bat wings, sometimes changes were made on judgement calls and we as players are forced to dig up data to back our claims.. where was the information to base these harsh xp penalties from? I mean, the exp is crazy slow.. the server has been up since October and why the need to change it now? It has only upset people, it hasn't caused a more "classic" feel to the game, and I just really don't understand why/what made this change come other than to be a bigger headache for all of us when we were already enjoying the game quite well as it was before. Like I said, I'm not trying to attack anyone for the work they're doing, it just seems there is more negative impact than for what its worth and a lot of the changes were made on assumptions rather than proof as well. Furthermore, after reading your initial post, you claimed hell levels would soak up group experience as well. I looked and looked and found no claim to that ever, it was solely race/class based that ate up experience that they mentioned. Not only do the class penalties hurt, but if hell levels are in fact soaking up exp, people will be less inclined to invite say a 45 Troll SK. I understand this can help out close knit friends who level together, however, at this stage in the game they are far and few between. I am saying this without trying to offend anyone like I pointed out above but it seems some of these changes were made without the proof that players are now expected to dig up just to get it changed back to what it was before the changes were made. All this is going to do is make druids/necros/mages/enchanters/shamans more inclined to solo, let rangers/monks/bards have a hell of a time finding groups, and everyone resent every SK/Pal twink that was made because they are so much better at holding aggro than a warrior when there's no other warrior online to tank for that group. I, unlike others I'm sure, will continue digging onto webpages from the past just to get some clarification but if some changes aren't being made to make it 100% classic, I feel very strongly that this was one of those changes that maybe shouldn't have been made either.

[Landis]

I got less than a yellow in just under 2 hours in a MM castle group that was VERY efficient and skilled last night. We killed fast. Everyone was within 4 levels of each other (lowest was 31, I was 32, highest was 35).

We did have a bard and SK in the group. If having a bard and SK in the group rapes the rate of exp gain that much, then it's going to be hard to justify grouping.

[holkan]

Classic has alot of flaws and alot of things were changed but the developers rae here to make it as classic as possible the good and the bad. It sucks that its gonna take awhile to catch my friends up to my character now but its their server and this what they want to do with it.

[Oogmog]

Classic has alot of flaws and alot of things were changed but the developers rae here to make it as classic as possible the good and the bad. It sucks that its gonna take awhile to catch my friends up to my character now but its their server and this what they want to do with it.

I can understand that, however, one dev has already said to the public he will not alter pet class experience gains because he's in favor of solo/boxing. With this change, its going to force the best DPS right now to solo more and further cripple groups. If one change is made to experience, I would strongly urge both for the sake of balance and classic .. or just revert back and keep it how things were before everyone's panties got twisted up in a bunch.

[holkan]

I can understand that, however, one dev has already said to the public he will not alter pet class experience gains because he's in favor of solo/boxing. With this change, its going to force the best DPS right now to solo more and further cripple groups. If one change is made to experience, I would strongly urge both for the sake of balance and classic .. or just revert back and keep it how things were before everyone's panties got twisted up in a bunch.


While I dont like the change either, maybe people should just focus less on the exp bar and more on playing the game. I have a lvl 50 char now and I dont even really log on because theres really nothing to do on him I'd love to raid, but since the mobs can spawn round the clock its kind of inconvenient to raid at 4am or not know when to log on. If anything it taking longer to get to 50 will make the game more of a time sink so I dont get burned out as fast with nothing to do.

[Landis]

I can understand that, however, one dev has already said to the public he will not alter pet class experience gains because he's in favor of solo/boxing. With this change, its going to force the best DPS right now to solo more and further cripple groups. If one change is made to experience, I would strongly urge both for the sake of balance and classic .. or just revert back and keep it how things were before everyone's panties got twisted up in a bunch.

Right, and it's not just DPS. Other than mages and necros, enchanters and druids will also be better off soloing rather than grouping with hybrids.

[Pyrocat]

I know you'll probably reply with some knee-jerk "You dont remember classic" reply, but believe me, I 3-box-power-leveled characters on Ebay during classic to pay for my first car.

cool story bro

[Arkis]

While I dont like the change either, maybe people should just focus less on the exp bar and more on playing the game. I have a lvl 50 char now and I dont even really log on because theres really nothing to do on him I'd love to raid, but since the mobs can spawn round the clock its kind of inconvenient to raid at 4am or not know when to log on. If anything it taking longer to get to 50 will make the game more of a time sink so I dont get burned out as fast with nothing to do.

I personally have not tested exp gain yet because of lack of time. However, that isn't really fair of an argument. If exp rates really are not correct and should be reverted, then they should be. When the game is about getting experience and loot, it's kind of hard not to focus on the exp bar.

To me, each level is a new "high", especially as a bard with new songs and new toys to try out. If you get burned out due to nothing to do at 50 and like to just "play the game", start a new character. To some people, this exp change might just burn them out because of the grind. However, if this is truly classic, then keep it in.

[holkan]

I personally have not tested exp gain yet because of lack of time. However, that isn't really fair of an argument. If exp rates really are not correct and should be reverted, then they should be. When the game is about getting experience and loot, it's kind of hard not to focus on the exp bar.

To me, each level is a new "high", especially as a bard with new songs and new toys to try out. If you get burned out due to nothing to do at 50 and like to just "play the game", start a new character. To some people, this exp change might just burn them out because of the grind. However, if this is truly classic, then keep it in.


Oh I agree , but I highly doubt they would mess with XP to such an extent without it being classic or having a VERY strong notion that it is indeed classic and have no intent on reverting it. I too am a really min max guy (only wanting to level in the best xp spots chain pull etc) and maybe I'm being biased since I already have a character at the cap, but having it there and having nothing to do really makes me appreciate the leveling process and want it to take a bit longer really on my next character around.

[Arriva]

Great, now people can't group or raid.

Classic iz the best evah.

[Bumamgar]

Oogmog: From your sig I see that you play an Ogre Warrior. Assuming this is your main and that your comments on the experience changes are from that perspective, I want to remind you of something.

Prior to the XP fix, Racial penalties were incorrectly being applied. Specifically, Ogre's were not experiencing a 15% penalty. In fact, they were getting a 5% bonus (ie: the halfling bonus).

This has been fixed, so all Ogres basically just got a 20% nerf to their XP (going from a 5% bonus to a 15% penalty). This was a bug that had to be addressed.

Conversely, Dwarves were getting the 20% Troll penalty and Trolls were only getting the 15% Ogre penalty. Dwarves now have no penalty (ie: a 20% boost to XP) and Trolls appropriately have the 20% penalty (ie: a 5% nerf to XP). Poor halflings were getting no bonus, but now they get a 5% bonus as they should.

The point being, as an Ogre Warrior, you just went from having the best XP combination available on p1999 to near the bottom.

[mimixownzall]

How about fixing the friggin group bugs first before screwing over the hybrids from being able to get groups =(

[utenan]

How about fixing the friggin group bugs first before screwing over the hybrids from being able to get groups =(

You couldn't sound more like an ingrate : )

[Oogmog]

Oogmog: From your sig I see that you play an Ogre Warrior. Assuming this is your main and that your comments on the experience changes are from that perspective, I want to remind you of something.

Prior to the XP fix, Racial penalties were incorrectly being applied. Specifically, Ogre's were not experiencing a 15% penalty. In fact, they were getting a 5% bonus (ie: the halfling bonus).

This has been fixed, so all Ogres basically just got a 20% nerf to their XP (going from a 5% bonus to a 15% penalty). This was a bug that had to be addressed.

Conversely, Dwarves were getting the 20% Troll penalty and Trolls were only getting the 15% Ogre penalty. Dwarves now have no penalty (ie: a 20% boost to XP) and Trolls appropriately have the 20% penalty (ie: a 5% nerf to XP). Poor halflings were getting no bonus, but now they get a 5% bonus as they should.

The point being, as an Ogre Warrior, you just went from having the best XP combination available on p1999 to near the bottom.

I knew Ogre's xp was bugged, I even messaged Devs before(Was outleveling a cleric buddy and it made no sense). However, while I plan to play him as my main, he's only level 35 and my druid is 50. However, an Ogre Warrior isn't near the bottom .. with a 10% bonus and a 15% penalty, that should equate to only a 5% penalty, correct? I have no complaints that Ogre's experience is fixed, because it was borked and I was well aware of it and my complaints aren't directed at that.

[Aeolwind]

I knew Ogre's xp was bugged, I even messaged Devs before(Was outleveling a cleric buddy and it made no sense). However, while I plan to play him as my main, he's only level 35 and my druid is 50. However, an Ogre Warrior isn't near the bottom .. with a 10% bonus and a 15% penalty, that should equate to only a 5% penalty, correct? I have no complaints that Ogre's experience is fixed, because it was borked and I was well aware of it and my complaints aren't directed at that.

20% swing: They had a 5% bonus, and were not getting their 15% penalty. The XP shift is -20%.

[Oogmog]

20% swing: They had a 5% bonus, and were not getting their 15% penalty. The XP shift is -20%.

Think you're misinterpreting... he said ogre warriors were in the most ideal situation but now are close to the end as far as experience modifiers go. We were 15% bonus, now 5% penalty. Int casters still have more of a penalty than Ogre Warriors.


EDIT: Also, as noted earlier, it said Ogre's had the same modifier as halflings but halflings in fact had no modifier, so wouldn't it have just been a 10% bonus and now a 5% penalty? Regardless, I knew it was messed up and not once did I mention that as a complaint :)

[holkan]

Think you're misinterpreting... he said ogre warriors were in the most ideal situation but now are close to the end as far as experience modifiers go. We were 15% bonus, now 5% penalty. Int casters still have more of a penalty than Ogre Warriors.


EDIT: Also, as noted earlier, it said Ogre's had the same modifier as halflings but halflings in fact had no modifier, so wouldn't it have just been a 10% bonus and now a 5% penalty? Regardless, I knew it was messed up and not once did I mention that as a complaint :)

the penalties arent additive they're multiplicative so you and I believe with the halfing thing he was saying you were actually getting the halfing bonus not what halfings got on the server.

[Oogmog]

the penalties arent additive they're multiplicative so you and I believe with the halfing thing he was saying you were actually getting the halfing bonus not what halfings got on the server.


Gotcha, but again like I've said in my previous two posts, this is not what I am concerned with. This is a legit fix that needed to be done.

[Aeolwind]

Specifically, Ogre's were not experiencing a 15% penalty. In fact, they were getting a 5% bonus (ie: the halfling bonus).

This has been fixed, so all Ogres basically just got a 20% nerf to their XP (going from a 5% bonus to a 15% penalty). This was a bug that had to be addressed.



You were at a 5% bonus and now at a 15% negative with regard to racial.

[Kreigore]

You were at a 5% bonus and now at a 15% negative with regard to racial.

As an Ogre Warrior, he should be at -5% overall (with regard to racial and class modifiers), right?

[Oogmog]

You were at a 5% bonus and now at a 15% negative with regard to racial.

Warrior +10, Ogre -15. Overall -5%, no?

[holkan]

As an Ogre Warrior, he should be at -5% overall (with regard to racial and class modifiers), right?

he was getting the +10 % warrior increase before the change I believe. So the only thing that got affected was his racial going from +5 % halfing bonus to -15 % ogre penalty.

[Aeolwind]

Warrior +10, Ogre -15. Overall -5%, no?

We're not referring to the overall, we're referring to racial penalties. There was still a 20% swing in ogre XP.

[Extunarian]

The current XP penalty of an Ogre Warrior is -6.5%:
1.0 (normal XP) * .85 (-15% ogre racial) * 1.1 (+10% warrior bonus) = 93.5%.

Since you previously had the halfling +5% bonus you were experiencing a 15.5% bonus:
1.0 * 1.05 (halfling racial applied to ogres) * 1.1 (warrior bonus) = 115.5%

Which unfortunately for you would come out a 22% decrease in XP rate:
115.5-93.5 = 22%

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Kreigore]

We're not referring to the overall, we're referring to racial penalties. There was still a 20% swing in ogre XP.

But now he should be obtaining a -15% racial modifier, along with a +10% class modifier - right?

Which would make a Ogre Warrior's experience modifier -5% overall. Or am I missing something?

[Kreigore]

1.0 (normal XP) * .85 (-15%) * 1.1 (+10%) = 93.5%.

The XP penalty of an Ogre Warrior is -6.5%.

Since you previously had the halfling +5% bonus it was:
1.0 (normal) * 1.05 * 1.1 = 115.5%

115.5-93.5 = 22% decrease in XP rate for Ogre Warriors after the fix.

Interesting, I never knew that's how experience was calculated...

[Aeolwind]

I think folks may be losing perspective. To clear 44, 45 and get a safe bubble into 46 it took me almost 72 hours on live. No deaths. No trains. I did the run non-stop.

[rioisk]

Classic has alot of flaws and alot of things were changed but the developers rae here to make it as classic as possible the good and the bad. It sucks that its gonna take awhile to catch my friends up to my character now but its their server and this what they want to do with it.

Flaws? Good and bad? Wheres my procing sword of runes on non-summoned mobs? Give me that and I won't care about this XP crap because I know THE GOOD AND BAD ARE IN.

[Bumamgar]

As an Ogre Warrior, he should be at -5% overall (with regard to racial and class modifiers), right?

It's multiplied, so 10% bonus * 15% penalty works out to a 6.5% penalty overall.

Here's the full skinny on the racial modifier fix:

Race PrePatch PostPatch
---- -------- ---------
HUM -4.8% no mod
BAR no mod -5%
ERU no mod no mod
ELF no mod no mod
HIE no mod no mod
DEF no mod no mod
HEF no mod no mod
DWA -17% no mod
TRO -13% -20%
OGR +5.2% -15%
HAL no mod +5%
GNO -17% no mod
IKS no mod -20%
VAH no mod no mod
FRG no mod no mod


Yes, it was an 'off by one' error in a table lookup :o

[theblaz]

I remember eq from the start and I honestly thought exp was a little faster on p 1999 , .. after the changes recently, if it is slower, that would seem to me to be more in line with how I remember classic being.

(Since I have been solo'ing the last few levels , I would not notice a difference, so to me, it is all the same... )

My memory isn't always great, so perhaps I am wrong about the xp rates from classic...

-Blaz

[Aeolwind]

Flaws? Good and bad? Wheres my procing sword of runes on non-summoned mobs? Give me that and I won't care about this XP crap because I know THE GOOD AND BAD ARE IN.

This has been looked at before. It requires a source change. So it's not a DB or spell file value that can just be modified. If it were a db/spell file fix it would have already been done lol.

Sadly, it gets fixed fairly early in Kunark.

[holkan]

Flaws? Good and bad? Wheres my procing sword of runes on non-summoned mobs? Give me that and I won't care about this XP crap because I know THE GOOD AND BAD ARE IN.

well that seems more like a bug * like being able to dupe plat* more so then how it was in classic. I dont think they're trying to recreate the game breaking bugs. Especially when it specifically says it is only supposed to damage summoned mobs.

Well I guess he would of liked the sword procing on none summoned mobs then just not easily changed lol

[Aeolwind]

I remember eq from the start and I honestly thought exp was a little faster on p 1999 , .. after the changes recently, if it is slower, that would seem to me to be more in line with how I remember classic being.

(Since I have been solo'ing the last few levels , I would not notice a difference, so to me, it is all the same... )

My memory isn't always great, so perhaps I am wrong about the xp rates from classic...

-Blaz

You aren't. The leveling speed will still probably be somewhat faster than classic. 35 in classic took me about about 17 hours to clear in the Pool room in SolB.

[Oogmog]

You aren't. The leveling speed will still probably be somewhat faster than classic. 35 in classic took me about about 17 hours to clear in the Pool room in SolB.

In classic, true classic, every other room was camped and you were lucky to pull 10 mobs per spawn cycle too. Also, more than likely, you weren't using a well balanced group either.. enchanters were extremely rare and bards who knew how to play their class well didn't exist. 59 took me 72 hours straight in Sebilis which 59 is easily 10x the length of a level such as 35(required 10 blue mobs to even move the blue bar in a full group).

[Landis]

In classic, true classic, every other room was camped and you were lucky to pull 10 mobs per spawn cycle too. Also, more than likely, you weren't using a well balanced group either.. enchanters were extremely rare and bards who knew how to play their class well didn't exist. 59 took me 72 hours straight in Sebilis which 59 is easily 10x the length of a level such as 35(required 10 blue mobs to even move the blue bar in a full group).

very true. the slow leveling everyone remembers from classic was directly affected by overcrowding.

also fwiw, 59 took me around 50 hours straight in sebilis. I was an enchanter.

[rioisk]

This has been looked at before. It requires a source change. So it's not a DB or spell file value that can just be modified. If it were a db/spell file fix it would have already been done lol.

Sadly, it gets fixed fairly early in Kunark.

Thanks Aeolwind, glad to know that non-classic issues like this "can't be fixed" but "thankfully was patched in kunark". Glad to know that more convenient "issues" like xp is quickly addressed.

[Oogmog]

very true. the slow leveling everyone remembers from classic was directly affected by overcrowding.

also fwiw, 59 took me around 50 hours straight in sebilis. I was an enchanter.

Correct, so its near impossible to say what "should" be true experience ... just because it took x hours to do xx level does not mean it should be the same here because it's not as overcrowded and groups are more efficient. There's concerns of mine I would like to post about why the experience nerf has decided to hit now instead of say a few weeks or a month ago, however, for fear of being banned because I extremely enjoy playing here, I will choose to keep quiet over that issue and hope that the devs realize the changes aren't making the game more enjoyable to people and will just cause more grief than good. EQ is rough, thats why we enjoy it, but to shun classes out(because lets be real, the folks playing EQ now are hardcore, not the roleplay types) and who wants to take someone that's going to make your group anything but efficient.

[Ihealyou]

Why is every change on this server a conspiracy? Maybe xp got changed now because the devs just finished implementing it. Maybe that sword doesn't proc because it requires a large amount of time and effort for a relatively small payoff. The devs didn't create the xp formula that the server was using before. They have to work off of the existing EQEmu code, which has a lot of bugs, and which has almost no classic features.

[Aeolwind]

Thanks Aeolwind, glad to know that non-classic issues like this "can't be fixed" but "thankfully was patched in kunark". Glad to know that more convenient "issues" like xp is quickly addressed.

I didn't say it couldn't be fixed. I said it hadn't been fixed.

Priority generally is broken down 2 fold: Difficulty & aspect.

If something is difficult but will change an aspect of the game to be more like classic for a broader set of players it would be addressed with a higher level of priority. (This is the AC & XP Changes).

Something that is difficult that effects the aspect of the game for 1 small section of people would take a back seat. (That's where this falls).

Something that is easy that effects the aspect of the game for a large number of people would get top priority. (These are low hanging fruit and VERY rare).

Something that is easy that effects the aspect of the game for a few or small section of people will generally get worked as time/inclination allow. (These are common, me removing Rigg Nostra for example. He was pointless and non-classic).

[Aeolwind]

Correct, so its near impossible to say what "should" be true experience ... just because it took x hours to do xx level does not mean it should be the same here because it's not as overcrowded and groups are more efficient. There's concerns of mine I would like to post about why the experience nerf has decided to hit now instead of say a few weeks or a month ago, however, for fear of being banned because I extremely enjoy playing here, I will choose to keep quiet over that issue and hope that the devs realize the changes aren't making the game more enjoyable to people and will just cause more grief than good. EQ is rough, thats why we enjoy it, but to shun classes out(because lets be real, the folks playing EQ now are hardcore, not the roleplay types) and who wants to take someone that's going to make your group anything but efficient.

Unless you go off the deep end, you'd not get banned. Calling us cock suckers generally does the trick. So you're fine =).

Our goal is, as it always has been is to put EQ back to the way it was. Good or bad & be damned if it isn't something you wanted back. It will just take us longer.

Consequently, 59 only took me 18 hours. We had another group of 60's PLing a group of 59's in Shrooms and in HS South Wing. I had 3 rogues and 2 rangers in my group.

[Aeolwind]

Why is every change on this server a conspiracy? Maybe xp got changed now because the devs just finished implementing it. Maybe that sword doesn't proc because it requires a large amount of time and effort for a relatively small payoff. The devs didn't create the xp formula that the server was using before. They have to work off of the existing EQEmu code, which has a lot of bugs, and which has almost no classic features.

This ^^.

In beta, we had limited source development ( /hug Ladoth).
We also didn't know something was wrong initially. (4 months?)
When we did find out something was wrong we didn't know what. (2 months?)
Then it was found and fixed, just like any other bug.

[Gorgetrapper]

Then please make it so pet classes lose exp if they don't do atleast 50% of the damage more than their pets either soloing or grouping.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Thank you Bumamgar, Haynar, Aeolwind and everyone else who contributed to the fixes and the explanations here. I'm sure you're pretty jaded by now to all the whining whenever something doesn't go someone's way, but some of us are genuinely grateful for the time and effort you contribute to this great project whether that effort makes things more or less convenient for players. Part of the appeal of classic EverQuest was the difficulty and I believe many of us appreciate your efforts to recreate that difficult.

Thank you!

[Aeolwind]

BAM another nail in the coffin.

R.I.P. P99

/waves bye to Arriva.

Everyone seems to miss the point that we aren't here for you. We'll continue to work if there are 8, 80, 800 or 8000 people on the server.

We (as the development staff) don't charge for the server, we don't beg people to play.

And speaking strictly for myself I don't care if you like a change that is made or not. You knew sharing of hybrid penalties was in classic and now we've fixed it. If you don't like that aspect of it, tough shit. It's part of the package.

[Extunarian]

Arriva slashes P1999 forums for 11 posts of damage!
Aoelwind begins to cast Banhammer
Aoelwind hits Arriva for 32,767 damage!
Arriva has been slain by Aoelwind.
Arriva's corpse twitches momentarily before falling still.

[Safon]

Arriva your a fucking idiot. The server is very populated, i see a steady influx of new players each week, and the more whiny bitches like you that go, the better.

Kill yourself

[strentax]

Been lurking for a while, but it seems like there's a lot of anger over something that should have been expected going in. So all I have to say to a ton of these posts is, "lol u mad?"

[Gwence]

Yall are keepin' it classic! But maybe not in the way you intended...

Experience rate is about half of that in classic EverQuest, as it stands right now.

I know you'll probably reply with some knee-jerk "You dont remember classic" reply, but believe me, I 3-box-power-leveled characters on Ebay during classic to pay for my first car. I have a pretty firm grip on the experience gain of every class, at every level range, in the classic era.

Something since the exp patch has caused a significant miscalculation in experience gain.

A solid, efficient 6-person group should gain 1 yellow an hour at lvl 20+. An efficient duo or trio, especially of pet classes, can gain up to twice this or more. Currently experience gain is half or 1/3rd that rate.

Please look into this before discrediting my judgment.

Translation: my 3 pals that recently lost their characters for cheating need to be power-leveled up again, but the xp is going too slow.

You must fix this for me because I am a great person that used to sell characters on E-bay /roar.


Dont worry Modus, their is no doubt in anyone's mind that you are indeed the biggest loser on this server, you dont need to continue to prove it to us.

[Tivoli]

Translation: my 3 pals that recently lost their characters for cheating need to be power-leveled up again, but the xp is going too slow.

You must fix this for me because I am a great person that used to sell characters on E-bay /roar.


Dont worry Modus, their is no doubt in anyone's mind that you are indeed the biggest loser on this server, you dont need to continue to prove it to us.

Aeolwind, please ban this troll like Arriva was.

Oh wait, Gwence is from Inglourious Basterds, nevermind.

[Aeolwind]

Translation: my 3 pals that recently lost their characters for cheating need to be power-leveled up again, but the xp is going too slow.

You must fix this for me because I am a great person that used to sell characters on E-bay /roar.


Dont worry Modus, their is no doubt in anyone's mind that you are indeed the biggest loser on this server, you dont need to continue to prove it to us.

I take Modus' post with a grain of salt. IF this is true then he may have a point. Don't completely discount anything.

As everything in the past, if there is truly something wrong we can fix it. But hyperbole and frothing won't get you there. In this particular case, conjecture may go a long way to helping us determine if something is broken with it. After seeing the calculations & the research that was put into it I'm in the "It's damn close" camp.

[girth]

http://www.thewrap.com/files/080229-biggest-loser-bernie-vmed-12p_widec.jpg

Gwence, are you saying this is Modus?

[Mady]

I'm very slow, so please be patient.

I have a SK alt that I realised, on making, had a -40% exp penalty. No problem.

But, from what i am understanding, I beileve, is that if I am invited to a group the entire group gets the 40% penalty.

Is this correct?

[Tivoli]

Can I also go offtopic, call Modus a cheating loser and get a nice GM reply?

Man, I'm not even gonna try.

[Aeolwind]

Aeolwind, please ban this troll like Arriva was.

Oh wait, Gwence is from Inglourious Basterds, nevermind.

lol, Modus has more enemies than cancer. Banning everyone that didn't like him would most likely take out 3/4ths the server.

Consequently, I didn't ban Arriva. I actually replied to the post since it was directed more at the dev staff.

And unless they have a sig plate that advises of affiliation; I've no idea what guild they're with. And I'm just as likely to ban one of my RL friends that play as I am someone with 2 posts like yourself that troll. Probably faster.

[Xenephex]

Way off topic, but does anyone remember Bass Mannings? (not sure why I thought of that).

[Landis]

I'm very slow, so please be patient.

I have a SK alt that I realised, on making, had a -40% exp penalty. No problem.

But, from what i am understanding, I beileve, is that if I am invited to a group the entire group gets the 40% penalty.

Is this correct?
not exactly, as i understand it you take 40% more experience from a kill than everyone else.

for example if a mob gives 1000 exp and you are in a group with 5 people who have no penalty/bonus, then you take ~233 xp and everyone else gets ~153 (note an equal 6 way split would be ~167 each). the effect is the whole group levels at the same pace.

so each person gets an 8% penalty to make up for your 40%. correct me if i'm wrong please.

[Mady]

Ok Landis, thanks for the explanation. I appreciate it.

Originally I thought that if a normal kill was equal to 1 blu bub for none penanlized members, that's what they would get, and I would just get 60% of a blu bub for the kill.

[Oogmog]

not exactly, as i understand it you take 40% more experience from a kill than everyone else.

for example if a mob gives 1000 exp and you are in a group with 5 people who have no penalty/bonus, then you take ~233 xp and everyone else gets ~153 (note an equal 6 way split would be ~167 each). the effect is the whole group levels at the same pace.

so each person gets an 8% penalty to make up for your 40%. correct me if i'm wrong please.

You have the right idea, but I'm pretty sure the hybrid will in fact still level SLIGHTLY slower but I could be wrong on that.

[Aeolwind]

I think a big thing people may have forgotten/never knew is that that penalty wasn't given to the hybrid, it was destroyed, gone for good. No one got that XP...well 'cept maybe the server.

[Tivoli]

I just don't understand why Inglourios Basterds can troll, rant, flame, bitch whatever they want and the admins even try to justify it afterwards.

I'm puzzled.

[Modus]

No one is whining about slower exp gain. At least, I'm not. I'm just pointing out a miscalculation from group level disparity... if that's even the source... as my testing did not involve hybrid classes or racial modifiers at all.

I suggest seeking more level appropriate challenges.

White, yellow, blue and red cons were the targets. Grouping with someone even marginally higher than yourself (1-3 levels) is now completely nonviable with the current changes, and I suggest almost every class solo or duo with an even level person for regular experience rates.

[Aeolwind]

I just don't understand why Inglourios Basterds can troll, rant, flame, bitch whatever they want and the admins even try to justify it afterwards.

I'm puzzled.

I didn't justify anything. They're both douche bags and climbing in the middle of a personal quarrel in this thread isn't going to help me answer peoples questions and concerns.

Tempers are hot amongst the natives over this. Some steam venting is expected, but keep trolling and you'll be unable to defend your position.

Back on topic: How about getting us some solo & grouped data on what you're seeing. If you got the balls, time and inclination I can climb on test and even spawn mobs for you.

[Landis]

I think a big thing people may have forgotten/never knew is that that penalty wasn't given to the hybrid, it was destroyed, gone for good. No one got that XP...well 'cept maybe the server.
that doesn't seem to agree with this
As such, a level 20 Troll SK, having more experience total than a Human Wizard of the same level, would get more experience from each kill, while the total experience for the kill was unchanged. Essentially, the SK would take part of the Wizard's share were everything distributed equally to begin with.
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/editorial/011401_EQ_Producers_letter.html

[Aeolwind]

Now, back on topic.

[Olorin]

I think a big thing people may have forgotten/never knew is that that penalty wasn't given to the hybrid, it was destroyed, gone for good. No one got that XP...well 'cept maybe the server.

That makes perfect sense now -- when the server would ding, it would crash to go get its new spells :)

[Starklen]

Maybe if you spent more time with your wife, you'd have something better to do with your time Alawen.


Looks like Dark Ascension is duping their insults now too.

[Extunarian]

That makes perfect sense now -- when the server would ding, it would crash to go get its new spells :)

Sweet! I can finally scribe "Endure DDOS!!"

[Teeroyoyort]

ok lets say you have a full group of 6..... 4 people with no mod, then say a ranger and bard both with -40% mods.... if a mob was worth 100 points... it would be worth 110 after the group bonus, then split evenly amoung the group? which before it would have been 18.3 for non penetly's and 11 for hybrids. so now they take the new total, and divide it evenly? so now hybrids get a bonus when grouping but bring down the xp as a whole. each member should get 15.8? does my jibber jabber make any sense? so that 100pt mob in the new group with the group bonus is worth 95.2?

[VincentVolaju]

Time to stash the Troll SK methinks

Not at all dude. I don't know why Hybrids are so upset, your class's just got BUFFED!!!! Lol, your exp penalties are nerfed by SOOO much in groups now because you steal more of EXP. Its actually EASIER to level a Hybrid now then it was last week. People are ALWAYS going to need certain class's regardless of the exp mods.

For example, there is NOT enough Tanks on this server, and I would say 75% of them are SK / Pallys just because everyone says they hold aggro better then Warriors.

When a group is looking for a Tank, its not going to matter what class you are, as long as you CAN Tank. Now you might be moved behind Warriors now because of the EXP split, some people might say "Well, We handle the War losing aggro here and there cause we want more EXP". But all thats doing is just switching spots with how Warriors have been this whole time. Most groups would have taken an SK / Pally tank over a Warrior pre-patch, now it "MAY" be the opposite where well take a Warrior over a SK / Pally.

But regardless of which class a group "prefers" a Tank is a Tank, and Tanks are always needed, so who cares if you have to wait a few more mins to find a group, your STILL going to get one because your STILL needed. And when you do, your going to be leveling faster anyway. Hell, I am considering making an SK now just because of this BUFF.

[Landis]

Not at all dude. I don't know why Hybrids are so upset, your class's just got BUFFED!!!! Lol, your exp penalties are nerfed by SOOO much in groups now because you steal more of EXP. Its actually EASIER to level a Hybrid now then it was last week. People are ALWAYS going to need certain class's regardless of the exp mods.

what about rangers?

[VincentVolaju]

what about rangers?

Good point......... lol.

[nilbog]

Sweet! I can finally scribe "Endure DDOS!!"

Unfortunately, Spell: Endure DDOS requires components to cast. Servers also need to have a "DDOS mitigation hardware" in their inventory. Similar to needing a Fire Beetle Eye to cast Spell: Flame Lick.

Furthermore, Spell: Endure DDOS is most effective when server already has at least 36%-41% bandwidth haste. Otherwise the top guilds do not want it.

[Dantes]

When a group is looking for a Tank, its not going to matter what class you are, as long as you CAN Tank. Now you might be moved behind Warriors now because of the EXP split, some people might say "Well, We handle the War losing aggro here and there cause we want more EXP". But all thats doing is just switching spots with how Warriors have been this whole time. Most groups would have taken an SK / Pally tank over a Warrior pre-patch, now it "MAY" be the opposite where well take a Warrior over a SK / Pally.

Shhhh. Stop spreading this propaganda. I like being unique. Now everybody is gonna roll warrior alts and I'll have to compete with twinked out UBER GUILD warriors who've had a full set of crafted since level 1. :D

[VincentVolaju]

Shhhh. Stop spreading this propaganda. I like being unique. Now everybody is gonna roll warrior alts and I'll have to compete with twinked out UBER GUILD warriors who've had a full set of crafted since level 1. :D

Exactly why I am selling over priced Warrior gear now =)

Come Warriors!!! Buy my expensive items for your twinking needs and make me richh Rich RICH!!!!!


Edit: Funny how FBSS's are being sold yesterday and today for 15-16k a pop >< Even had one sell for 17.5k to a pretty desperate little halfing warrior =)

[Thorjorkill]

Going to have to agree with Aeolwind on his exp rate recollections here, and i'm not one to kiss his ass, as there is plenty of different recollections between us.

Exp gain rates NOW are still faster than on live during the classic era.

FOR REAL go pound out 29 to 30, or 39 to 40 with the code being 100% correct for exp calculations like in live classic, and then come back here and whine about how slow you are leveling.

The code error that gave you 1 tick of blue for every 4 to 6 even con kills is not here during those levels.

[rioisk]

I didn't say it couldn't be fixed. I said it hadn't been fixed.

Priority generally is broken down 2 fold: Difficulty & aspect.

If something is difficult but will change an aspect of the game to be more like classic for a broader set of players it would be addressed with a higher level of priority. (This is the AC & XP Changes).

Something that is difficult that effects the aspect of the game for 1 small section of people would take a back seat. (That's where this falls).

Something that is easy that effects the aspect of the game for a large number of people would get top priority. (These are low hanging fruit and VERY rare).

Something that is easy that effects the aspect of the game for a few or small section of people will generally get worked as time/inclination allow. (These are common, me removing Rigg Nostra for example. He was pointless and non-classic).

This is great and everything the problem lies in the fact that some "negative" aspects are easier to fix then some "positive" aspects. The problem further lies in these "positive" aspects get patched out eventually...ie sword of runes proc and kunark. This makes it so that the game is skewed towards the negative without compensating for the "bugs" or "positives" in the game.

People getting banned for "abusing" pathing is an example. People who figure out how to use pathing to their advantage are not exploiting....they're merely figuring out the physics to use to their advantage. People did this all the time in classic and didn't get banned.


I think your definition of what is classic is different from the actual classic experience. I don't like how things are "tweaked" to be more classic....but aren't done in the proper timeline because of the time it takes to tweak them. It totally throws off the classic experience.


If I don't see proccing sword of runes on all mobs before kunark I'm going to be very disappointed.

[Paxton]

I couldn't help but notice at least 4 or 5 people that posted in this thread now have the forum status of "Banned" under their name..

:O

[Insedeel]

If I don't see proccing sword of runes on all mobs before kunark I'm going to be very disappointed.

Wasn't that fixed before kunark?

[Paxton]

If you got the balls, time and inclination I can climb on test and even spawn mobs for you.

I'd be happy to dedicate some time, at any point, to being a tester here, if you have need.

[Qaedain]

People getting banned for "abusing" pathing is an example. People who figure out how to use pathing to their advantage are not exploiting....they're merely figuring out the physics to use to their advantage. People did this all the time in classic and didn't get banned.

Except for the ones that did. See: Blood of the Spider vs, The Sleeper.

[Ihealyou]

Except for the ones that did. See: Blood of the Spider vs, The Sleeper.

He obviously meant that banning for exploiting pathing wasn't implemented yet. That example is clearly post-velious.

[mimixownzall]

I think folks may be losing perspective. To clear 44, 45 and get a safe bubble into 46 it took me almost 72 hours on live. No deaths. No trains. I did the run non-stop.

Well, since the 'ol "It's Classic!" phrase seems to be thrown around. Let's not be hypocritical. Lets's go friggin classic!

-No item linking
-No 9th spell slot
-Go back to the old UI
-No key mapping except for your 1-6 buttons
-Let's stare at our spell book and click on the meditate button to med (I know we are currently past that point on live, but since this recent exp nerf shows that reverting is not out of the question, lets go back to what we missed)

The hypocrasy is what bothers me. If this game had started with the current exp system, then fine. But reverting it after almost a year is really dumb imo. How about reversing it and working on other things... Like the group bug, Kunark, mob pathing ect.

[mimixownzall]

well that seems more like a bug * like being able to dupe plat* more so then how it was in classic. I dont think they're trying to recreate the game breaking bugs. Especially when it specifically says it is only supposed to damage summoned mobs.

Well I guess he would of liked the sword procing on none summoned mobs then just not easily changed lol

Just like SOE says that the group exp penalty for hybrids was always a crappy idea. But.. you get the picture. Bug? No. But something that was wrong and changed.

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

that doesn't seem to agree with this

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/editorial/011401_EQ_Producers_letter.html

Aye, from this we can deduce the original mechanism.

The various penalties were not reductions in experience gained, but were increases in the amount of xp required to level up. They were multiplicative. So, the oft mentioned Troll SK needed 68% more xp to level up. Put simply, if a human cleric needs 100xp to hit level 2, then the Troll SK needs 168xp to hit level 2.

If each of them were soloing, they would get the same amount of xp per kill. If, for instance, level 1 decaying skeletons give 4xp per kill (not a real value, but still useful for comparison), then the cleric would have to kill 25 to ding, while the Troll SK would have to kill 42 of them.

Before the changes mentioned in the letter above, when players were grouped, the xp from each mob was divided proportionally based on the total xp of each PC in the group. So, even if all the players were, say level 20, their xp totals might be very different... the Troll SKs total would be around 68% higher. The mob itself would provide a discrete amount of xp based on its level.

Say a level 20 mob was killed and yielded 400 xp. This total was then multiplied by the group bonus which was 1.02 to 1.1 depending on how many PCs were in the group. Let's say 4 PCs for the example, so the XP to be split by the party would be 400 x 1.06 = 424xp.

Then each player would receive a portion of that xp relative to their own xp versus the total xp in the group. So, let's say the 4 players involved were a human cleric, 2 human druids, and a troll SK, all level 20. The three human characters have no bonus or penalty, so their xp totals are likely very close to each other. I don't remember the exact value of xp needed to be level 20, but since it is all based on percentages, the exact number doesn't matter. Let's say the 3 human players have 85,000 ; 85,600 ; and 87,200 xp each, and that the Troll SK has 146,160 xp. That puts the total party xp at 403,960.

So, Human 1 has 21.04% of the group xp and will get .2104 x 424 = 89xp for the kill.

Human 2 has 21.19% of the group xp and will get .2119 x 424 = 90xp for the kill.

Human 3 has 21.58% of the group xp and will get .2158 x 424 = 92xp for the kill.

Lastly, the Troll has 36.18% of the xp and will get .3618 x 424 = 153xp for the kill.

If the troll had been another character with approximately equal xp total to the other characters... for example, another human druid at level 20, or perhaps a Troll SK at level 16ish, or a halfling rogue who was nearly 21 or 21... then each character would have gotten a roughly even split of .25 x 424 = 106xp. So, in this instance, by grouping with the Troll SK of even level instead of one of those other options, the other group members took around a 15% hit in xp gained per mob.

Obviously, that percentage hit will be different in different sized groups and depending on the number and total xp values of other characters. So, let's say for giggles that it takes 14,000 xp for a human cleric to get from level 20 to 21. Then it would take the party of 4, all human clerics and druids 132 kills of this example mob to level up. If the party consisted of the PCs in the above example, then the humans would take from around 152 to 157 kills to level, while the troll would need 154 kills to level.

This does exactly what the devs said it was designed to do. It lets friends who play together level together. Adding hybrids to a group will slow the other members down somewhat. I think this slow down is definitely smaller than the margin for slowdown from grouping with bad or lazy players though. Players of non-hybrids are still better off grouping with a known good or great player hybrid than with a mediocre or bad non-hybrid.

Also, note that no XP was created or destroyed from thin air before the changes mentioned in that dev letter.

[nilbog]

Well, since the 'ol "It's Classic!" phrase seems to be thrown around. Let's not be hypocritical. Lets's go friggin classic!

-No item linking
-No 9th spell slot
-Go back to the old UI
-No key mapping except for your 1-6 buttons
-Let's stare at our spell book and click on the meditate button to med (I know we are currently past that point on live, but since this recent exp nerf shows that reverting is not out of the question, lets go back to what we missed)

The hypocrasy is what bothers me. If this game had started with the current exp system, then fine. But reverting it after almost a year is really dumb imo. How about reversing it and working on other things... Like the group bug, Kunark, mob pathing ect.

The ignorance is what bothers me. You think you know how everything works, but apparently just want to bitch about apples and oranges.

-Item linking - client/source? or both
-what 9th spell slot? its gone
-old UI is on the client, once again.
-keymapping 1-6, on the client, once again

-Let's stare at our spell book and click on the meditate button to medFirstly, its the client. Secondly, if you cared enough to look into it, you would realize that it is not possible. Its easy to tell someone else to do it though, right?

If there was a switch to revert all of these things to classic, we'd flip it. Obviously there isn't. You are preaching like we have a giant list of on/off levers.

Submit fixes for this stuff yourself, learn how to do it, or stfu.

Last but not least, we don't answer to you. So you telling us what we should be working on is mildly irritating.

[Sarkhan]

Keep up the great work Nilbog and everyone else! I'm still loving the server and appreciate all the hard work you all put into it!

[Stylez]

Experience modifiers derived from data below:

Barbarian=10.5 DarkElf=10 Dwarf=10 Erudite=10 Gnome=10 HalfElf=10
HalfLing=9.5 HighElf=10 Human=10 Ogre=11.5 Troll=12 WoofElf=10

Bard=14 Cleric=10 Druid=10 Enchanter=11 Magician=11 Monk=12 Necromancer=11
Paladin=14 Ranger=14 Rogue=9.05 ShadowKnight=14 Shaman=10 Warrior=9 Wizard=11

HalfElf/Bard = 140
Human/Bard = 140
WoodElf/Bard = 140
DarkElf/Cleric
Dwarf/Cleric
Erudite/Cleric
Gnome/Cleric
Halfling/Cleric = 95
HighElf/Cleric = 100
Human/Cleric
HalfElf/Druid
Halfling/Druid = 95
Human/Druid = 100
WoodElf/Druid = 100
DarkElf/Enchanter
Erudite/Enchanter
Gnome/Enchanter
HighElf/Enchanter
Human/Enchanter
DarkElf/Magician = 110
Erudite/Magician = 110
Gnome/Magician = 110
HighElf/Magician = 110
Human/Magician = 110
Human/Monk = 120
DarkElf/Necromancer = 110
Erudite/Necromancer
Gnome/Necromancer
Human/Necromancer
Dwarf/Paladin
Erudite/Paladin
Gnome/Paladin
HalfElf/Paladin
HighElf/Paladin
Human/Paladin = 140
HalfElf/Ranger
Human/Ranger = 140
WoodElf/Ranger
Barbarian/Rogue
DarkElf/Rogue
Dwarf/Rogue
Gnome/Rogue
HalfElf/Rogue
Halfling/Rogue = 85.975
Human/Rogue = 90.5
Woodelf/Rogue
DarkElf/Shadowknight = 140
Human/Shadowknight
Ogre/Shadowknight = 161
Troll/Shadowknight = 168
Barbarian/Shaman
Ogre/Shaman
Troll/Shaman = 120
Barbarian/Warrior
DarkElf/Warrior = 90
Dwarf/Warrior
Gnome/Warrior
HalfElf/Warrior
Halfling/Warrior
Human/Warrior = 90
Ogre/Warrior = 103.5
Troll/Warrior = 108
WoodElf/Warrior
DarkElf/Wizard
Erudite/Wizard
Gnome/Wizard
HighElf/Wizard
Human/Wizard = 110


Don't know if that helps u but that was from 1/1/2000 from showeq.

[Samuel]

Its actually EASIER to level a Hybrid now then it was last week

Have you grinded in a group with a hybrid or as a hybrid yet? Because this statement is 100% false.

[holkan]

Just like SOE says that the group exp penalty for hybrids was always a crappy idea. But.. you get the picture. Bug? No. But something that was wrong and changed.

Soe deemed alot of things as a crappy idea which some people love and some people hate. PoK books bazaar armor dyes AA's raid flags. Some people love some of these things some people hate some of these things, and to this servers developers obviously they want it in their game.

[Combo]

No wonder my XP was glacial with a Paladin in the group last night. Killing reds at level 9 and got less than a yellow after an hour and a half (Dark Elf Enchanter, so 10% penalty). I don't remember the level split in the group so that may have contributed too, but I don't think anyone was worse than a yellow con.

From now on I will definitely start trying to avoid groups with hybrids/bards/monks and crossing my fingers on my SK that the general community doesn't read the forums.

In all honesty, after looking at all these numbers, there is no good reason to group (for xp) if your class is capable of soloing. Unless you're a class that needs to meditate and just want to semi-afk leech while "getting your mana back."

[mimixownzall]

The ignorance is what bothers me. You think you know how everything works, but apparently just want to bitch about apples and oranges.

-Item linking - client/source? or both
-what 9th spell slot? its gone
-old UI is on the client, once again.
-keymapping 1-6, on the client, once again

Firstly, its the client. Secondly, if you cared enough to look into it, you would realize that it is not possible. Its easy to tell someone else to do it though, right?

If there was a switch to revert all of these things to classic, we'd flip it. Obviously there isn't. You are preaching like we have a giant list of on/off levers.

Submit fixes for this stuff yourself, learn how to do it, or stfu.

Last but not least, we don't answer to you. So you telling us what we should be working on is mildly irritating.

Don't get me wrong, I really enjoy playing and am greatful for what you guys are doing.

I really don't understand why it has been decided to be changed after almost a year. It just sucks as a newer player to p1999 that so many people got to play before without worry of being a burden to the group and not getting in to groups cause of an xp handicap. If I want to choose a class that takes twice as long to level, great, that's my choice. But, I really do feel guilty knowing I am sucking up everyone else's xp.

Seems like it will do nothing but encourage soloing in the mmo that was by far the most fun to group in.

[VincentVolaju]

Have you grinded in a group with a hybrid or as a hybrid yet? Because this statement is 100% false.

No I haven't played as Hybrid yet, but I have grouped with one. I was with a full group and had an ogre SK as the tank, 2 hours later the SK had to go and got replaced with a wood elf warrior. I gained 3 yellow with the SK in those 2 hours, in the next 2 hours with the warrior I gained 4 yellow 1 blue.

It could have just been the speed in which we were killing at after the SK left maybe? But our puller was a Monk and he seemed to pull the same speed the whole time through. So yeah, I level faster WITHOUT a Hybrid in the group.

However, like you quoted me on but apparently didn't understand. If you are the hybrid then you will be leveling faster now in a group with this patch, then you did with a group before the patch. Now you get more EXP per kill then you did last week if grouped. The GROUP gets less, but you get more. So YES, you DO level faster now if you are the hybrid in the group.. If a group wants to take you now, well thats a different story =)

[Qaedain]

I, for one, will happily go right along not giving one fuck about the group composition, provided it is alive, well and productive.

[Baa]

I am pretty content with my exp gain on my sk, honestly it is much easier that I remember it.... has been awhile though.

Luckily I am one of few tanks online around my level during my peak playtime, so usually find a group anyway!

[Insedeel]

I just want to thank the devs for staying true to classic despite the whiners... The exp penalty sharing was in classic until velious, so that's where it should be on this server too... Until velious. :D I'll still take hybrids in my groups any day regardless of the penalty as long as they're a good player.

[Extunarian]

I really don't understand why it has been decided to be changed after almost a year. It just sucks as a newer player to p1999 that so many people got to play before without worry of being a burden to the group and not getting in to groups cause of an xp handicap. If I want to choose a class that takes twice as long to level, great, that's my choice. But, I really do feel guilty knowing I am sucking up everyone else's xp.


Wow...I can't believe you continued to whine about this after getting seriously chewed out by the PM. That takes a special kind of denseness.

The server staff doesn't need to hear you reiterate your less-than-informed opinion over and over again. If you really want to help out, maybe you should try donating?

I play a barb shaman, so I have only a slight XP penalty. That will not stop me from continuing to group with the Ranger and Necro that I have been leveling up with. If anything, it sounds like this will help the Ranger stay closer to us in levels.

[eqholmes]

Quick question, does the Banned below someones name mean they are banned in game, or that their forum name is now banned?

[Uaellaen]

Quick question, does the Banned below someones name mean they are banned in game, or that their forum name is now banned?

forum

[mimixownzall]

Wow...I can't believe you continued to whine about this after getting seriously chewed out by the PM. That takes a special kind of denseness.

The server staff doesn't need to hear you reiterate your less-than-informed opinion over and over again. If you really want to help out, maybe you should try donating?

I play a barb shaman, so I have only a slight XP penalty. That will not stop me from continuing to group with the Ranger and Necro that I have been leveling up with. If anything, it sounds like this will help the Ranger stay closer to us in levels.

You have gotten better at sucking up! (107)

(you call me dense, i can respond with the same immaturity)

[mimixownzall]

Oh, and Extunarian, of course I'm going to "whine" when I get rejected several times daily to be in groups because of my 68% exp penalty. And I'm a tanking class that is at least needed in most group situations... imagine the poor DPS'ers.

Am I just supposed to say, "Ok, guys, Thanks!" Would you?

I was trying to defend fellow hybrids/monks because you are the acception about grouping with hybrids. Most people will choose to not group with them and leave groups of nothing but hybrids scraping along at a snails pace.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Be glad...level 50 is effing terrible. It's soooooooooo droll having everything :P

[Omnimorph]

Couldn't care less about exp penalties tbh. I group for fun, if exping takes longer with 5 troll sk's in group, that means i have more time for fun! (although a rather poorly balanced group)

[Dantes]

That's exactly what I said in another one of the half dozen threads about this topic. The people make the group fun, regardless of what class they pick.

[Cheech]

exps is slow....much slower. Solo exp is the way to go. If your able.

[azxten]

Exp was too fast here honestly. I remember it taking me a solid like 6-8 hours of playing per level on pretty much any solo class like Druid, Necro, etc from 20-24 or so. Sure, it's not much of a data sample but it's something I remember very well because I always had just enough playtime in a day to get 1 level. Here you could easily do 20-24 in a single day. Exp was simply much faster than classic imo.

[Jarim23]

Wow...I never knew my paladin on live had such an experience penalty. Then again I don't think I ever went on the classic forums. Could a developer of p1999 please explain the thinking behind it? Is it to match classic EQ? If so, any idea why they did it? Do paladins enjoy a significant advantage over other classes? Or is it to balance race/class numbers? I'm not expecting any change...I would just like to understand these penalties/bonuses better. Thanks.

[eqdruid76]

I think it's amazing how many of you guys remember exactly how many hours it took you to gain particular levels over 8 years ago.

[jeffd]

It's even more amazing how many month-old posts have been dug up in the last few days by new forum accounts with 1 post.

[Humerox]

Wow...I never knew my paladin on live had such an experience penalty. Then again I don't think I ever went on the classic forums. Could a developer of p1999 please explain the thinking behind it? Is it to match classic EQ? If so, any idea why they did it? Do paladins enjoy a significant advantage over other classes? Or is it to balance race/class numbers? I'm not expecting any change...I would just like to understand these penalties/bonuses better. Thanks.

Search threads. It's been explained before. Just sayin'. ;)

[Infectious]

Exp is slower then live but not that much of a difference... Difference with live was people were exploring 75% of the time in classic. Where here everything is known which takes out the exploring part this time around. Instead of explorin people watch there exp bar every second. Everybody has to realise this isnt pop era where u can get from 1 - 30 with a good power leveler in a couple hours. Def is slower when i first started a month before kunark was released i leveled my warrior from 1 to 9 in one night solo( roughly 6 hours). And that was nothing but what i started with.

[whitebandit]

It's even more amazing how many month-old posts have been dug up in the last few days by new forum accounts with 1 post.

you mean you? with your july 2010 join date and 17 posts?

[Tiggles]

Trying to figure out why that Modus guy got banned. Unless they deleted the offending posts he did not do anything wrong.

[RKromwell]

Hehe, last time I leveled up a character on live, it was before the KEI nerf. Root and nuke, never ran out of mana. I went from 1 to 50 in something like 10 days played. I still did quest and spent way to much money on trade skills.

[jeffd]

you mean you? with your july 2010 join date and 17 posts?

clearly that's exactly what i meant, given the fact that i've dug up so many month-old posts.

you're either really fucking stupid and have literally zero reading comprehension, or you're an angsty neckbeard dying for every chance to act confrontational on the internet.

not looking good either way, brosef. :cool:

[Nedala]

what is it with all these old threads lately?

[apollyon arali]

Its amusing to watch people bitch and complain about something they are getting for free. I can understand bitching about a broke game if your paying the monthly fee but a free server to play claissic on?

You all realize this server will be hit with the sony nerf bat once they see the population rise to a "wtf!" level.

Your toons will go poof!

[Overcast]

I think folks may be losing perspective. To clear 44, 45 and get a safe bubble into 46 it took me almost 72 hours on live. No deaths. No trains. I did the run non-stop.

Took my paladin damn near a week of 'normal' playtime to get that far too - in Dreadlands. So - with the time I had to play each day - around 7 hours a day (35 hours then for the workweek) plus mad playing on weekend - yeah, probably 72 hours ish..

I think it seems just right - I play a Human SK, so I get a penalty.

[Eternal-Elf]

Just for the record I can see where leveling slow would be a more classic feel.

However, I don't know about you all....but last time I played EverQuest I was 16, in highschool, with no job or responsibilities and unlimited time to play computer games and have fun.
Now I'm 24 with a baby, a job, and not 10 hours a day to sink into a game. The fact that EVERY single time I log in I have to grind the exact same mobs and barely get any exp is depressing to me.

I hope they do something to increase the exp soon .

[Malinrol]

I agree that they should increase xp rate. i get playing a human SK has a penalty, but it seems ridiculous really. xp seems really slow, especially as a hybrid. Now with everyone re-rolling a solo class (Druid, mage, necro, enchanter) it makes finding a decent xp group difficult.

I can understand that back in classic xp was slow. But come on! There should be a up in it all.

Im new to the game and think that the dev's did an awesome job on reviving my dads old favorite game. But i would just like to be able to get a level more than once a week. And after gaining that level, maybe getting a little safety xp so when i die, i dont freakin de-level!

[Dirtnap]

The only way things will change is if you have solid proof that things are slower than they were on live.

[aVoided]

Just for the record I can see where leveling slow would be a more classic feel.

However, I don't know about you all....but last time I played EverQuest I was 16, in highschool, with no job or responsibilities and unlimited time to play computer games and have fun.
Now I'm 24 with a baby, a job, and not 10 hours a day to sink into a game. The fact that EVERY single time I log in I have to grind the exact same mobs and barely get any exp is depressing to me.

I hope they do something to increase the exp soon .

oh cripes... I work 6 days a week 10 hrs a day. I also took a 6 month break from the server and I still have 4 toons in the 40-50 range. That's averaging about 4 hrs a day playtime, with a little more ussualy on sat - sun. Even with that I still manage a lvl every other day on which ever toon I decide to play. (provided I get a group)

Your above whine is EXACTLY why games like WoW came to be... if you don't have time do like I did... take a break... or suck it up. I happen to have done both. In that order :P

The exp feels fine, to me at least. I won't quote my exact time of leveling 30-34 on my necro, sipping a pepsi, popping a pimple, while kiting HG's in rathe at 10:42pm, saturday april 15, 2000, with an ole sticky porno as my mouse pad. It feels pretty close to me, I just think the ezmode generation has rubbed off on even a lot of old schoolers now..

[Ketsa]

The fact that EVERY single time I log in I have to grind the exact same mobs and barely get any exp is depressing to me.

Why would you play depressing games ?
Why would you think games have to change to accomodate YOUR lifestyle ?

There are other games wich might better match your profile.

Exp looks fine, theres even quests who give WAY TOO MUCH EXP compared to 1999, i'm thinking of gnoll teeths for example. You had to give 4 teeth to get a pixel of exp. I never even bothered gathering them after seeing the result on live.

[zeval31]

Just for the record I can see where leveling slow would be a more classic feel.

However, I don't know about you all....but last time I played EverQuest I was 16, in highschool, with no job or responsibilities and unlimited time to play computer games and have fun.
Now I'm 24 with a baby, a job, and not 10 hours a day to sink into a game. The fact that EVERY single time I log in I have to grind the exact same mobs and barely get any exp is depressing to me.

I hope they do something to increase the exp soon .

there are other servers with faster xp configuration, if you look closely ....

[guineapig]

(EDITED for clarity)

This tool will show you how many kills it takes a any race/class combination to solo to 50:

http://www.bardsguild.com/everquest/eqexp.html

You can edit it by changing the level disparity between you and the mobs you are fighting as well.

Then of course you can do averages. If you are fighting mobs that are roughly 50/50 split between 1 level below you and 2 levels below you then you can just do an average of the 2 results.

If a solo player finds that their exp is not matching these results then we currently do not have classic exp in place.

[Messianic]

Interesting base level to go by. How many kills it takes a high-elf cleric (no bonus or penalty) to solo to 50:

http://www.bardsguild.com/everquest/eqexp2.html


This tool will give you the same spreadsheet for any race/class combination you want:

http://www.bardsguild.com/everquest/eqexp1.html


And if you don't want the pop-up, here is the same tool on a split screen with the results:

http://www.bardsguild.com/everquest/eqexp.html

Awesome post. Thanks for this.

[Bumamgar]

Chicanery: The base formula on that page are in effect here on p1999.

Keep in mind, however, that there is a fairly significant reduction in the XP awarded if you are killing light blue mobs. Also, there are zone XP modifiers in place.

So while that chart provides a very good guideline, the exact count of mobs per level will vary somewhat, depending on zone modifiers and the level difference between the player and the mobs being farmed.

[guineapig]

Chicanery: The base formula on that page are in effect here on p1999.

Keep in mind, however, that there is a fairly significant reduction in the XP awarded if you are killing light blue mobs. Also, there are zone XP modifiers in place.

So while that chart provides a very good guideline, the exact count of mobs per level will vary somewhat, depending on zone modifiers and the level difference between the player and the mobs being farmed.

Good point. Can you list a hand full of zones with zero ZEM for testing purposes? I'm guessing the Karanas and Oasis don't have any bonus but wanted to be sure.

[Enderenter]

I actually think XP is a little faster on here than it was on live.

It just seems like less of a grind to me - though I have been solo/duo mostly, and the few full groups I have been in outside of dungeons have seemed like very slow EXP. That's how it was on live too, though.

[Lucrio40]

I actually think XP is a little faster on here than it was on live.

It just seems like less of a grind to me - though I have been solo/duo mostly, and the few full groups I have been in outside of dungeons have seemed like very slow EXP. That's how it was on live too, though.

I personally think that's because solo xp is broken. I have no documentation of this due to Verant keeping how XP worked behind the scenes, but my own personal recollection of Classic Live was that while yes, a strong solo class (a necro or druid) could keep up with a good group for a while, but they would start to lose out when the downtime started to hit. A good group would kill almost constantly, while the solo guy would kill 4-8 or something then have to med up, over time this lead to the good group out pacing the solo guy.

On here, due to mage pets being far stronger than they were on classic (again, that is just my opinion and another thing that happened over time with stealth nerfs and buffs). We see a lot of mages, necro's, and druids soloing exclusively due to it being better than grouping.

To me it seems as though the only people who "remember" soloing being faster than a good group without a lot of hybirds on classic live are those who are currently playing those 3 solo classes listed.

I could be all wrong on all of this, but that's just my opinion.


Another opinion I want to express is that something should be done about this. As part of the idea getting as close to the original feel of classic, then the exp incentive should be with grouping, rather than soloing. Soloing should never be a viable alternative to a good group, in my opinion.

[Malrubius]

My main is a Troll/SK. Not sure what level I am (20 or 21), but I'm having a helluva good time. Does that count? :p

[PhelanKA]

I personally think that's because solo xp is broken. I have no documentation of this due to Verant keeping how XP worked behind the scenes, but my own personal recollection of Classic Live was that while yes, a strong solo class (a necro or druid) could keep up with a good group for a while, but they would start to lose out when the downtime started to hit. A good group would kill almost constantly, while the solo guy would kill 4-8 or something then have to med up, over time this lead to the good group out pacing the solo guy.



If you've got much downtime as a necro you're doing it wrong.

[Lucrio40]

If you've got much downtime as a necro you're doing it wrong.

I never said it would be a lot of down time for any class. Good Necro's are probably the only class I remember being able to out pace even a good group if they were given the mobs to actually kill. This was another issue for the solo player, A lot of the good zones to kite in only had a limited number of mobs, this would also constitute downtime.

[Enderenter]

I never said it would be a lot of down time for any class. Good Necro's are probably the only class I remember being able to out pace even a good group if they were given the mobs to actually kill. This was another issue for the solo player, A lot of the good zones to kite in only had a limited number of mobs, this would also constitute downtime.

I don't know about that. I guess it really depends on what level we're talking about, but there are several classes in classic eq that could (in my opinion) easily out-xp groups. I remember full group xp being ridiculously slow. Sitting in Oasis in a full group, chain pulling yellows non-stop for 2 hours, and you've gained 2 yellows (at level 15). I remember being in Highkeep on live and grinding for 3 hours where 1 death sets you back an hour because of how slow the XP is - pulling mobs nonstop until there are none left. Granted, Oasis and Highkeep were my worst classic EQ memories of full group XP (Dreadlands came later... eww).

[Lazortag]

Good luck out-exping any group if you're solo. What happens if you go linkdead while pulling a sand giant? I give about 15 seconds before you're mercilessly slaughtered. There are few solo spots that are forgiving to people who don't have perfect internet connections.

[Nedala]

I brought this up already once, but i was talked down.

But seriously i getting faster exp on my lvl 50 druid in groups (yes i do exp from time to time because i eat 0% rezzes on raids sometime) than on my lvl 24 enchanter, should it really be like that?

[Reiker]

Level 50 is tiny so yeah, sure.

[Aarone]

If you've got much downtime as a necro you're doing it wrong.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/picture.php?albumid=31&pictureid=170

[Lagaidh]

Except for the ones that did. See: Blood of the Spider vs, The Sleeper.

I remember that. They were the supreme guild of the Rathe. The schadenfreude on that server the day the guild was disbanded was served on plates with SoLo cups of punch.

I still remember Aegis of BoTS. I was a L20ish pally when I met him, duo'ing with my good buddy Toraque who was a similar level HEF RNG. We were on the orc highway when Aegis came running by in a full suit of Valorium with his Soulfire. He buffed us and ran off.

I remember being in awe of the L50 paladin.

They reformed as Brotherhood of the Spider.

[Zefah]

I just started playing, and the exp rate does seem to be a lot lower than it was even when I first started playing EQ Live in 1999. It probably shouldn't take an hour of constant solo grinding in West Freeport, with minimal downtime, to get from level 2 to 3 as a Dark Elf Enchanter.

That's fine, though. I'll learn to adapt, but i don't think the exp rates were this bad back in old EQ. I seem to remember the first 6 levels or so going very quickly.

[JayDee]

I like the new exp rate. I think it's pretty damn close to live tbh. I remember grinding solb for like days to get past level 45.

That definitely wasn't the case before on p99. I had seen people go from level 1 on monday to 50 by the weekend without much PL'ing involved.

It now means something to be 50 much like live. Kudos to devs for fixing this.

[Zefah]

I like the new exp rate. I think it's pretty damn close to live tbh. I remember grinding solb for like days to get past level 45.

That definitely wasn't the case before on p99. I had seen people go from level 1 on monday to 50 by the weekend without much PL'ing involved.

It now means something to be 50 much like live. Kudos to devs for fixing this.

Except for all of those people who already have level 50s, right?

[JayDee]

Except for all of those people who already have level 50s, right?

Unfortunate but hey, so is the fact that alot of new players will have to work their ass off to ever acquire a manastone.

[Braveguard]

Wow...I never knew my paladin on live had such an experience penalty. Then again I don't think I ever went on the classic forums. Could a developer of p1999 please explain the thinking behind it? Is it to match classic EQ? If so, any idea why they did it? Do paladins enjoy a significant advantage over other classes? Or is it to balance race/class numbers? I'm not expecting any change...I would just like to understand these penalties/bonuses better. Thanks.

It was a mistake in the original design. It was an attempt to counter-balance the benefits of a melee that could cast. They realized their error in overpowering the class and nerfed the abilities but didn't take out the exp penalty as well.... so... you ended up with a class that was "balanced" but still have the penalty that was supposed to be the cost of having the extra power. It more or less came from adapting predispositions learned in pen and paper games.

[Braveguard]

And, by the way, they finally got around to straightening it out a bit after years of foreswearing the issue.

[Braveguard]

I really have no issue with the rate of exp. For me, it's always been that the class modifiers are poorly assigned. Seriously, with what we know about paladins, for instance, who believes they should carry such a heavy penalty.