Patch Notes July 05, 2010

[nilbog]

Code

Haynar: Pets will now prefer to stand while in combat.
Haynar: Bash/Kick reuse time has been adjusted up some for NPCs.
Haynar: Variable pet levels should now scale better.
Haynar: Pet focus items should now focus the pets correctly.
Haynar: Pets have had some adjustments to their HP Regen rates.
Haynar: Bind Sight and Alliance line of spells should now work properly for all classes.
Haynar: Pets got an IQ boost. They should get off the beaten path less often while following their master.
Haynar/Bumamgar: Found a better variable modifier to use for exp. It should be live with this patch.
(Previously Updated) Bumamgar: Classic EXP changes.
(Previously Updated) Haynar: AC mitigation changes.

Content

Aeolwind: Mobs in Fear have had an Armor Class pass. They should be significantly tougher.
Aeolwind: Rigg Nostra will no longer spawn in East Freeport. Non-Classic mob
Aeolwind: Canloe Nusback will no longer give out double items on belts.
Nilbog: Creamy Fennel Sauce is no longer available on vendors.
Nilbog: Gull Skytalon will now be on an 8 hour respawn timer.
Nilbog: You will no longer lose faction with Grobb Merchants when killing Bashers.
Nilbog: Hundle Quatvel will now be primary faction DismalRage
Nilbog: Gargoyles and greater skeletons should now fight appropriately on spectre isle in OOT.
Nilbog: Golem Metal Wand and Oil of Fennin Ro have had their casting times removed.
Nilbog: The drop ratio of ruined/low/medium/high quality pelts has been adjusted. Quality skins will now be noticeably rarer than ruined ones.
Bumamgar: Fixed Cazic Thule's "call for aid" logic so that it will now summon every mob in the zone to his aid instead of one random mob every 3 seconds.

[oldhead]

Where can I find details on the exp and ac changes?

[Vexden]

can you explain the pets better? Thanks.

[Vorin]

can you explain the pets better? Thanks.

Over-nerfed about does it.

[JxP]

nerfed how?

[Vorin]

My pet is hitting for about 25% less damage.

[girth]

The way pet scaling is supposed to work, is it varies the pets HPs and Stats for different levels. But the database, has the stats for the highest level pet. The way the scaling should have been, is it varies from the current highest level over a range of 5 levels total, with the database level as the highest.

When SOE changed pets, they made all pets summon the highest level.

So when it is patched, the lower level pets will hit for less, and have lower stats and hit points - So in that aspect it is a nerf.

THe current variance is varying up levels too, so that wont happen either. So max pet level will be lower - Another nerf.

But I am bumping up pet regen rates. The level 39 pet and up, will have the 30 hp regen rate as they should. The lower level mage pets will have 6 hp per tick regen rate like they should. These are all boosts in power.

I still need to work out the out of combat regen for pets, but this will help some.

Also the focus items are just totally borked.

The lower level mage focus items, should be pet specific, they should not increase pets max level or affect their hit rates. These are going to be nerfed to be like classic.

The higher level pet focus staffs of elemental masteries, will have about the same focus as they do now. But some stats will focus more, and some will focus less, depending on the pet. So the elemental masteries staffs will actually be of some use, to make the pet stronger.

That is it in a nutshell

[Aposi]

thats not really over nerfed. it was changed to how it was in classic. Pet focus was broken on Torch Stein Broom and Shovel. They simply fixed it.

[Evorix]

Aeolwind: Mobs in Fear have had an Armor Class pass. They should be significantly tougher.



Were Inny, Vox, Naggy, or mobs in Hate affected by this as well? When we killed Naggy this weekend he seemed to have a significant increase in Armor Class as well. The melee weren't hitting for sh*t.

[Haynar]

The max hits for pets was not changed. The pets summon by a variable range that now varies the pet stats and max hit, so you will no longer always get a pet that always hits for max.

You will have to pay attention to the pet's max hit, to see if you got the max level pet now.

Just to save you some time researching, pet max hits vary by 2 per level. If you have a pet that is max level, hitting for 40, the worst case min level pet would hit for 32. This is just like live was back in classic. If the pet is say more than level 10, the HP vary by 20 per level, at lower levels it varies a bit less. These are values I found while researching how classic pet variance was. They were not huge differences, but the varied, so I tried to emulate the same sort of variance.

Haynar

[Aeolwind]

Were Inny, Vox, Naggy, or mobs in Hate affected by this as well? When we killed Naggy this weekend he seemed to have a significant increase in Armor Class as well. The melee weren't hitting for sh*t.

Inny, Vox, Nag, & CT were changed a little more than a month ago....actually, the same time that OOC got nerfed. This massive nerf managed to sneak through under the radar thanks to the patent jackasses on the server!

Hate, Ice Giants & Fire Giants have yet to have an AC pass yet, but it's going to happen soon. (As in most likely next patch).

[Vorin]

Hey, now we get bone chip vendors right? :P

[Haynar]

Where can I find details on the exp and ac changes?
AC has been moved to a softcap based system that more resembles live and now scales better so that you can actually see a difference when adding AC. Its not perfect, but it is an improvement.

Haynar

[Haynar]

Hey, now we get bone chip vendors right? :P
When I do play, I play a necro or SK. I spend 50% of my time chasing down bonechips it seems. So I feel your pain.

Haynar

[Tinino]

Good job on this patch, devs.
And thanks for the hard work.

[Malrubius]

The pet changes are painful to my SK, but overall I'm glad that things keep evolving towards what classic was. Thanks for all the hard work as usual.

[makoho]

The max hits for pets was not changed. The pets summon by a variable range that now varies the pet stats and max hit, so you will no longer always get a pet that always hits for max.

You will have to pay attention to the pet's max hit, to see if you got the max level pet now.

Just to save you some time researching, pet max hits vary by 2 per level. If you have a pet that is max level, hitting for 40, the worst case min level pet would hit for 32. This is just like live was back in classic. If the pet is say more than level 10, the HP vary by 20 per level, at lower levels it varies a bit less. These are values I found while researching how classic pet variance was. They were not huge differences, but the varied, so I tried to emulate the same sort of variance.

Haynar

My earth pets max hit was 61 before and now its 48?

[Haynar]

My earth pets max hit was 61 before and now its 48?
Pet focus applies different now. You do not a bonus to max hit, unless you are using a staff of elemental mastery. Even the staff will only add +2 to max hit, and +1 to the max level it can be summoned. This is how classic was.

The shovel focus, does not give the huge bonus it did before. Nor do any of the other low level focus items. They were hugely overpowered. For that matter, they were not even level limitted. The way it was coded, having any focus item, you got the max focus. Any focus, was always the same.

But hey. The low level focus, should make your pet bigger now too. Thats kind of like driving a big truck now, right?

Sorry for the nerf mages. But I was really had the intent of only trying to get the staff of elemental masteries working right. Then when I got in the code, I found that there was only one hard coded level of focus.

Haynar

[Haynar]

Btw, this balanced what exactly? Nothing? Okay, didn't think it balanced anything or made any difference except screwing pet classes over, just checking.
I never said that these changes were meant to balance anything.

There were complaints, that the higher level pet focus items for mages had no advantage over the low level items. That is what I was investigating. My investigation led me to determine that pet level variance was not "classic" and the pet focus items were not "classic".

I bowed to the complaining mages, and fixed the higher level mage focus items, so they are useful.

Be careful what you ask for. You might actually get it.

Haynar

[girth]

Charms, you mad bro?

[Haynar]

Charms, you mad bro?
I have to be honest. After seeing how overpowered mages were, and why. I almost made a mage to level up, and farm stuff for my other characters. But I resisted that urge.

The pet changes were not meant to be a diss on pet classes. Its just one of those things.

Haynar

[Quinas]

But arent there reports of pets of the max con colour actually hitting for less than before? Fair enough for pets conning lower than the max, as thats what the variability fix would change.

Mages were always OP.

[girth]

He mentioned low level focus items being overpowered. Maybe that's what your noticing quinas, assuming he nerfed them and not buffed the high level focus ones. That, or this:
THe current variance is varying up levels too, so that wont happen either. So max pet level will be lower - Another nerf.

Mages were op, but not like I've seen on this server.

[hueylewis187]

I have not tested out the pets so I am only going by what people are saying.

Before focus items were in on this server my 49 pets always hit for at least 56 damage. No matter what level pet. They were probably hitting 61's like all the focus'ed pets were hitting before the patch.

If the nerf was just to focused pets. Why did the Un-focused pets hit for over 56 every time before.

56 should be the max hit for the 49pets not 61. This is unfocused though.

http://web.archive.org/web/20040404221118/www.ballio.com/mageportal/DesktopDefault.aspx?tabid=60

link from 2004 though.

No idea if that helps at all. I just feel if you nerfed pet focus items only. Why does the unfocused pet hit for less. Necro's are saying their pet hits for less. Probably shamans too.

Hate to see everyones pet get nerfed. Just my 2cp.

[Haynar]

Some of the pet max hits are off in the database, along with the max level for some too. I haven't got around to fixing everything. Its on my list. I have a stack of notes here. Going through and editing each pet individually is such a pain. There are a lot of freaking pets. So it probably won't get updated until next patch, or maybe the next. I spent too much time going through all the exp changes, and researching classic exp, and trying to figure out where we were off.

There is also a lack of info concerning pet regen rates. Most of everything current for the level of pets we are using seems pretty spot on. If someone can prove what shaman pet regen rates should be, that would be probably a big boost to them. I didn't adjust them up to some of the current numbers, as it seemed like too big a jump. But maybe they should be that high. I dont know.

Haynar

[JayDee]

I have to be honest. After seeing how overpowered mages were, and why. I almost made a mage to level up, and farm stuff for my other characters. But I resisted that urge.

The pet changes were not meant to be a diss on pet classes. Its just one of those things.

Haynar

I played my friends mage a couple months ago (with newb najena focus items) and it was unreal. His earth pet self buffed was far more efficient than my level 50 warrior. With reclaim I literally never ran out of mana.

Mages were OP on live, but not THAT bad lolz.

[Quinas]

The only issue now is that, while mage pets did have a true variance on EQLive Classic, you could also cannibalise/reclaim them until you got the best pet. Not sure about that here?

[Qaedain]

The pets AND the focus items were altered to function as they did in classic based on research conducted by two premier mages from the classic era: Xalmat and Razzamatazz of the the Mage Compendium.

If you want to look at the data used to determine how the pets and focus items should work, here are the stats of pets at their MAX levels.

http://www.xalmat.com/eqsummoners.com-old/eq1/pets-fire-library.html
http://www.xalmat.com/eqsummoners.com-old/eq1/pets-water-library.html
http://www.xalmat.com/eqsummoners.com-old/eq1/pets-air-library.html
http://www.xalmat.com/eqsummoners.com-old/eq1/pets-earth-library.html
http://eq2.magecompendium.com/pets-focus-items-library.html

Pet HP, max hit, stats varied with level for over three years. Until 7/24/2002 (http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20020724.html), as a matter of fact. That was when pets always summoned at their maximum level, rather than ≤ MAX-5.

When you aspire for classic, you get some of the "bad" with the good.

To those of you who didn't play Mages in this era, it seems like the biggest nerf in the world. To those of you who did, you'll remember it well and know how to deal with it.

//EDIT: I noted to Haynar that Pet Cannibalization needs to go back into the game until the server hits 12/18/2003, when pet canni was nerfed (http://www.tski.co.jp/baldio/patch/20031218.html).

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

So, just to be clear and excuse mt ignorance, as we don't 'patch' like live... this was all server side stuff? No client side changes needed unless you want the new ui or spell gems?

[Qaedain]

Most things in EverQuest are handled server-side. Anything that requires a change to textures, models, images, and the UI are done on the client, and can't legally be done by the dev team.

[Zilo]

My mistwalker pet doesnt even attack at all, only bashes/kicks for 10-16 and only procs blue con pets now, no evens or yellows.....makes me a sad Mistwalker wielder=(

[yaaaflow]

I never said that these changes were meant to balance anything.

There were complaints, that the higher level pet focus items for mages had no advantage over the low level items. That is what I was investigating. My investigation led me to determine that pet level variance was not "classic" and the pet focus items were not "classic".

I bowed to the complaining mages, and fixed the higher level mage focus items, so they are useful.

Be careful what you ask for. You might actually get it.

Haynar


<3 Haynar.. haha I was the mage complaining about the focus item issue in this case - I just wanted my raid focus staffs to be useful :P glad to see this has been made more like to classic, even if it is a nerf on my class.

[Kiwaukee]

Some of the pet max hits are off in the database, along with the max level for some too. I haven't got around to fixing everything. Its on my list. I have a stack of notes here. Going through and editing each pet individually is such a pain. There are a lot of freaking pets. So it probably won't get updated until next patch, or maybe the next. I spent too much time going through all the exp changes, and researching classic exp, and trying to figure out where we were off.

So you implemented half of the fix (the nerf) and left out the other half (the damage table fix) because you didn't have enough time? Why put in a half-way fix that cripples people who play pet classes in the level range of the broken pets? From what people are posting, several of the pets are doing A LOT less damage.

As some have pointed out, the variance in stats and damage of pets doesn't really nerf anything but money for mages and time farming bone chips for necros. Those who want to level up most efficiently will chain summon until they get a max level pet. The necessity of doing so was counter-balanced with pet cannibalization in classic. Apparently, pet cannibalization not functioning as it did is a known deviation from classic, yet it was also left out of the patch that forces chain summoning of pets for max efficiency.

It seems to me like this change was rushed for some reason. I don't understand why the entire thing wasn't held off until ALL of it was ready to be patched in.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

I was gonna say something to Kiwaukee about how this kind of patch is exactly like classic (remember the balancing act to make everyone equal?)... but I don't wanna seem like I am mocking their hard work.

Gah I said it didn't I, but seriously we all appreciate the time and effort put in.

[Cronoclops]

I never said that these changes were meant to balance anything.

There were complaints, that the higher level pet focus items for mages had no advantage over the low level items. That is what I was investigating. My investigation led me to determine that pet level variance was not "classic" and the pet focus items were not "classic".

I bowed to the complaining mages, and fixed the higher level mage focus items, so they are useful.

Be careful what you ask for. You might actually get it.

Haynar

"We" the majority of people who have lower level pet classes and are "not" high level mages didn't ask for this. We did however get stomped by it because it was half baked.

[finalgrunt]

As a 50 magician, this patch didn't change much my overall capacities. People overreact to any kind of nerf. But it is EQ classic we're looking for on p1999.

Thumbs up to the dev team! You've got all my support.

[SUSUGAM]

"We" the majority of people who have lower level pet classes and are "not" high level mages didn't ask for this. We did however get stomped by it because it was half baked.

QFT

Anyway, this whole Spell level, is ≤ MAX-5 really accurate? Could the level 4 pet spell on live summon level 1's? I don't remember this being so. Maybe I'm mistaken?

I've cast 10+ pets so far at level 24, however. And not a single one has been 22 or 23, as per the possible levels on mage compendium's info. All were light blue and low dark blue. Unless I'm also mistaken about the phrases attached to blue con's. MEH.

[Qaedain]

The five levels includes the max level, so the lowest level pet at level 4 bottoms out at level 2.

Blue cons also all use the same con message, unless my memory is screwy.

//edit: Except not for 15-24... http://everquest.allakhazam.com/eq_consider.html

[bionicbadger]

Good job on the changes. Its much closer now to what I remember it was on live. My shaman now summons only green pets which is how I remember it on live. The only time you would get a blue pet was the level where you got a new pet spell or the level right after that, then it would be green pets for 3 levels. The pet regen seems a bit slow, the dog would usually recover quickly when sitting (because it didn't have many HP to begin with)

[Malrubius]

Anyway, this whole Spell level, is ≤ MAX-5 really accurate?

I think it was in Classic (except perhaps the level 4 spell, which was probably special-cased in the code).

But my question for Haynar is - what *is* MAX?? In classic, I thought I occasionally got white-conning pets, but never yellow. So that would mean that the level 16 spell would have MAX==16. And the pets could be 12, 13, 14, 15, or 16. Anybody else remember white-conning pets in classic?

It is possible I am remembering a later change.


From the reports above, it sounds like MAX is now set to the spell level - 1 (or even spell level - 2). So for the level 16 pet, is MAX currently 15? So that you will get a pet that is level 11, 12, 13, 14, or 15 (all conning green or blue when you first get the spell)? Or 14 (10, 11, 12, 13, 14)?

Thanks in advance for any clarification on what MAX is.

[Eyry]

Figures...Now that I finally got my torch after 3 weeks of camping that this comes out. Come to find out that I will be less powerful than I was when I didn't have it....

[Shrubwise]

Great work on the patches Devs, all this hard work is definitely appreciated.

[Xumosa]

Is there a post somewhere with more information on the exp change? I am hearing mixxed stories on what exactly it is any info would be appreciated

[utenan]

My shaman's 39 pet, prior to the patch, conned dark blue, maxed for 35, and had duel wield, it was a nice upgrade to the 34 pet. After the patch he cons green, does not duel wield, and maxes for 27. Oddly enough that is what my 34 pet was like, maxed for 27 with no duel wield, but of course he conned DB at 34. Seems kind of odd to me, and makes me wonder if this is working as intended. I did not play a shaman on live, so I really don't know how shaman pets are suppose to be.

[bionicbadger]

My shaman's 39 pet, prior to the patch, conned dark blue, maxed for 35, and had duel wield, it was a nice upgrade to the 34 pet. After the patch he cons green, does not duel wield, and maxes for 27. Oddly enough that is what my 34 pet was like, maxed for 27 with no duel wield, but of course he conned DB at 34..

my 39 shaman pet duel wielded last night. He was green as he would be on live and maxed for 31, maybe you just got the lowest level one, but he should still dual wield. And prior to patch the 39 pet would only con dark blue at level 39 if you got the highest level pet, most would be light blue.

[falderon_MT]

I have found the same thing as you with pet strength. As an enchanter whom does not have over 200 cha(for charming) when soloing I rely on my animation to tank for me while I dot/nuke and debuff. While before I could solo blues with my pet and the pet would be at half health before the mob died...now it is usual for me to have my pet dead and the mob in question still has 40% health.

When summoning pets...they do not seem to have a level range anymore...you seem to always summon the lowest level pet for that group ie...the level 29 pet animation spell is only summoning the level 29 pet...it never seems to scale up to 33.

I verified this by casting the pet spell 40 times and looking at the pet. They all worked like level 29 pets and nothing higher.

[utenan]

Finally got a LB pet, hits for 31 : D still will not duel wield though : /

[Qaedain]

I think it was in Classic (except perhaps the level 4 spell, which was probably special-cased in the code).

But my question for Haynar is - what *is* MAX?? In classic, I thought I occasionally got white-conning pets, but never yellow. So that would mean that the level 16 spell would have MAX==16. And the pets could be 12, 13, 14, 15, or 16. Anybody else remember white-conning pets in classic?

It is possible I am remembering a later change.


From the reports above, it sounds like MAX is now set to the spell level - 1 (or even spell level - 2). So for the level 16 pet, is MAX currently 15? So that you will get a pet that is level 11, 12, 13, 14, or 15 (all conning green or blue when you first get the spell)? Or 14 (10, 11, 12, 13, 14)?

Thanks in advance for any clarification on what MAX is.

For Mages it depends on the spell level of the pet: http://www.xalmat.com/eqsummoners.com-old/eq1/pets-fire-library.html

It's impossible to get an even con beyond level 20.

[Malrubius]

For Mages it depends on the spell level of the pet: http://www.xalmat.com/eqsummoners.com-old/eq1/pets-fire-library.html

It's impossible to get an even con beyond level 20.

Oooh, good info, thanks.

So we should be able to get yellow-con pets prior to level 20. Sadly, this does not seem to be the case right now - every pet I have cast so far is green. Will keep testing though.

[Grimfan]

I can confirm the pet variance is working well. On my necro, level 8 pet was blue to me at level 12, summoned a new level 12 pet, was light blue and hit for less than the level 8 pet. Sadness. This sucks pretty bad :(

[Insedeel]

I can confirm the pet variance is working well. On my necro, level 8 pet was blue to me at level 12, summoned a new level 12 pet, was light blue and hit for less than the level 8 pet. Sadness. This sucks pretty bad :(

Hehe, just another thing that made classic such an unforgiving painful experience. It's a good thing I'm a masochist or I'd never survive on classic eq a second time around hehe!

[BeelzeBob]

Sadly my enchanter pet is now as useless as I remember it being.

[kariden]

Mages were OP in classic.
Maybe you should post where you got your info that you used to justify these nerfs so the players could take a look at it. Seeing as how you would demand players provide proof for a change. I think the mage pet changes are full of shit.
" Fixed Cazic Thule's "call for aid" logic so that it will now summon every mob in the zone to his aid instead of one random mob every 3 seconds."
So people were exploiting shit and the staff let it go on for how long?

[nilbog]

Mages were OP in classic.
Maybe you should post where you got your info that you used to justify these nerfs so the players could take a look at it. Seeing as how you would demand players provide proof for a change. I think the mage pet changes are full of shit.
" Fixed Cazic Thule's "call for aid" logic so that it will now summon every mob in the zone to his aid instead of one random mob every 3 seconds."
So people were exploiting shit and the staff let it go on for how long?

Firstly, if mages were OP in classic, they were OPP here. Ask anyone from any emulator. We're still having to nerf things, sorry, thats just the way it is. If you think they were "spot-on", you're just wrong. Fire pets shouldn't be tanking. I started a magician at the beginning of Kunark and I can tell you that.

Secondly, you're bitching because we fixed CT? I'm not sure how that wasn't clear enough for you. We wrote the script.. and now it works properly. No one is exploiting? You're in the wrong forum.

[Insedeel]

You're in the wrong forum.

And playing on the wrong server... This server emulates classic to as close as it possibly can. While not everything is working just like classic (like heals on pets causing threat which it shouldn't), the devs will be working on trying to get everything done as they can and have time for. I just hope they work on the pet healing threat thing soon because it's going to make things a lot more difficult while healing causes threat on pets when our pets now are lower level so have a harder time hitting mobs to keep agro. :(

[finalgrunt]

When you say "We're still having to nerf things, sorry, thats just the way it is.", what do you have in mind Nilbog?

Cause for the pets I completly agreed with the changes. But I don't really see what else is different from classic now.

And yes fix pet healing causing threat then please. Will help lower level magicians a ton.

[Insedeel]

And yes fix pet healing causing threat then please. Will help lower level magicians a ton.

I doubt they'll do anything based off what we say here, but those of you that also remember the pet healing threat thing, the more people we have responding in the thread confirming what I've posted in the bugs section, I think the more chance we have of it being added to their list. Although I hope with my link and information I provided will be enough proof for them that this was truly the case.

Link to my bug report here (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=11220).

[girth]

Mages were OP in classic.
Maybe you should post where you got your info that you used to justify these nerfs so the players could take a look at it. Seeing as how you would demand players provide proof for a change. I think the mage pet changes are full of shit.
" Fixed Cazic Thule's "call for aid" logic so that it will now summon every mob in the zone to his aid instead of one random mob every 3 seconds."
So people were exploiting shit and the staff let it go on for how long?

LOL who the hell is this guy?

[JxP]

I don't like the pet changes either. In other news, I think enchanter charm should be a bit more effective too.

[Haynar]

And yes fix pet healing causing threat then please. Will help lower level magicians a ton.
Yes, pet healing is just borked. It will be adjusted. The other thing I will be looking at is Necro/SK lifetaps. If I remember, they caused way more aggro on the server acting as if you healed yourself. They basically worked as AE aggro. I know without a doubt, that lifetaps did not work like this.

Haynar

[Cronoclops]

Let me get this right. You knew putting in the fix that you did and not the rest of what you knew needed to go in would unfairly effect the majority of pet class players? Then you did it anyway leaving all those players to hang until you could get around to it? Am I missing something or reading this wrong?

[Haynar]

Let me get this right. You knew putting in the fix that you did and not the rest of what you knew needed to go in would unfairly effect the majority of pet class players? Then you did it anyway leaving all those players to hang until you could get around to it? Am I missing something or reading this wrong?
So we have one vote, for leaving pet classes broke for awhile.

Maybe I should start a poll.

[Haynar]

I don't like the pet changes either. In other news, I think enchanter charm should be a bit more effective too.
I am thinking of tweaking charm, so less cha is needed initially, and provides less benefits as you get higher amounts of cha. But leaving it basically about the same. That way there is more benefits at low levels, when you don't have as high of cha.

Haynar

[Kiwaukee]

So we have one vote, for leaving pet classes broke for awhile.

Maybe I should start a poll.

It's not that he's wanting pets to stay "broken" (read: not exactly classic), he's saying that it wasn't exactly fair to partially change it and essentially put in all the "negative" adjustments and leave out the "positives" that needed to be fixed also. By doing so, those who are in the level range of the broken damage tables are left with a doubly gimped pet that they can't properly heal without pulling agro.

[finalgrunt]

It's not that he's wanting pets to stay "broken" (read: not exactly classic), he's saying that it wasn't exactly fair to partially change it and essentially put in all the "negative" adjustments and leave out the "positives" that needed to be fixed also. By doing so, those who are in the level range of the broken damage tables are left with a doubly gimped pet that they can't properly heal without pulling agro.

Pet regen was fixed. So you can't say only negative stuff was added.

[Insedeel]

Except.. that's not how pets were on classic.. at all.

Eh, you're not being very specific, but if you're talking about the pet level ranges, actually that was how classic worked. I remember countless times spending time resummoning a pet to get a pet that would hit for max dmg (hence be max level) for that level of a pet summon. The level ranges were how classic pets worked. It doesn't matter if you try to say it's wrong, because it's not. There are enough people here that played classic and played a pet class that can confirm this.

Now if some of the values in the database are wrong, I'm sure Haynar will get to it when he can. Yes it sucks that some of it is borked, but the change will come. It's not like he just plans on leaving it like that forever.... In the mean time we just need to be patient. I'm playing a pet class too here, so it's not like I'm not affected by this as well..

[Cronoclops]

So we have one vote, for leaving pet classes broke for awhile.

Maybe I should start a poll.

That's what you got out of my question?

[Reiker]

The worst part about this patch is how crippled necro pets are now. In classic, necro pets were fucking baller; they tanked better and hit harder than they did before this patch. So now necros are going quite a ways backwards from classic. Not to mention you guys never implemented pet weapon delay, even though I've mentioned it from day 1 as a staple classic EQ "element" along with sword of runes proccing on anything. So overall, this patch gives a net effect of pet classes operating even less like they did in classic than before.

[AstyTZ]

Has anyone noticed absolutely awful pet pathing in dungeons as a result of this patch? I thought it was okay before, but now my pet will just randomly start fighting something because I made a small turn and he decided to go the scenic route. I was in sol a just now by the high shaman spawn, and i turn a corner, and all of the sudden my pet has a couple gnomish miners and some clockworks on him.

[Grimfan]

The worst part about this patch is how crippled necro pets are now. In classic, necro pets were fucking baller; they tanked better and hit harder than they did before this patch. So now necros are going quite a ways backwards from classic. Not to mention you guys never implemented pet weapon delay, even though I've mentioned it from day 1 as a staple classic EQ "element" along with sword of runes proccing on anything. So overall, this patch gives a net effect of pet classes operating even less like they did in classic than before.

I will say that my necro is not the same or close to the same as he was in classic. There are certaIn missisng elements that are listed above as missing which I agree with. I never leveled a necro very high but the pets were never this weak. Enchanter pets however are back to being as terrible as I remember them being so I guess that is classic, or whatever ;(

[tal597]

Druids pets (charm) are acting strangely. When I send my pet in to attack, it hits the mob once then runs back to me. I have to spam attack to keep it on the mob. This seems broken, but I don't use pets much. I can't say if it was caused by this patch.

[Dantes]

AC mitigation changes are definitely noticeable. I have nearly 600 AC and I went from being able to kill 2 light blue mobs solo with 1 health bar to being able to kill 4.

[Modal]

nm, understand now that I've read through it again

[Reiker]

Shamans are going to kill me for this post, but I doubt the devs will change anything because of it. Someone was asking about Shaman pets, so here we go.

I played a Shaman as my main class back in the day and know more about them than any other class. One quirk to their pet was that they would NEVER equip weapons. Not even for procs. No matter what weapon you gave them, they would always "hit". Not until 2002 did they add the ability for shaman pets to equip weapons. This also allowed them to dual wield. No shaman pet would dual wield (I don't even think the PoP pet True Spirit would dual wield) unless it was given 2 weapons.

Here's a related post for proof: http://samanna.net/CRUCIBLE_SAVES/pets_and_weapons.html

People wouldn't be going crazy about their pets equipping weapons 3 years after the release of the game if it wasn't something new.

Another thing I've noticed is that shaman pets tank too well on this server. You were always way better off tanking instead of your pet on live, but on here I've seen shaman utilize their pet like a mage, which is definitely weird to see. As far as regen goes, I'm pretty sure that shaman pets regen at the same rate as the others (mage/necro etc). Shaman pets would always regen way "faster" than mage/necro pets, due to having much lower HP.

But anyways, the whole shaman pets equipping weapons thing was such a great turning point for Shaman that thread is one of the dozen saved topics from the old Crucible, along with VT Key, AA guides, etc. It was a huge bugfix that most people don't remember (it wasn't documented), that P99 should never see.

[rellik]

The worst part about this patch is how crippled necro pets are now. In classic, necro pets were fucking baller; they tanked better and hit harder than they did before this patch. So now necros are going quite a ways backwards from classic. Not to mention you guys never implemented pet weapon delay, even though I've mentioned it from day 1 as a staple classic EQ "element" along with sword of runes proccing on anything. So overall, this patch gives a net effect of pet classes operating even less like they did in classic than before.

QFT. I tried out my newbie necro last night who is only lvl 11. Took 7 pets to get one that wasn't light blue con. Finally got one that was dark blue and he hit for 9 dmg on average as his max but for the most part just constantly missed. He also seemed to be taking damage more so then before. This was on other dark blue mobs btw.

Anyways I ding lvl 12 and go buy my new pet spell, cast it, and....light blue pet. :(

The changes don't make much sense to me since I didn't really see any post about people begging for pet class nerfs, and I don't remember it like this back on live.

[olderj]

QFT. I tried out my newbie necro last night who is only lvl 11. Took 7 pets to get one that wasn't light blue con. Finally got one that was dark blue and he hit for 9 dmg on average as his max but for the most part just constantly missed. He also seemed to be taking damage more so then before. This was on other dark blue mobs btw.

Anyways I ding lvl 12 and go buy my new pet spell, cast it, and....light blue pet. :(

The changes don't make much sense to me since I didn't really see any post about people begging for pet class nerfs, and I don't remember it like this back on live.

I had a very similar experience.
~Stolig

[Haynar]

Dude Haynar, thank you so very much for completely fucking up the pets man. Cheers.

Thanks to "There are just so many pets to deal with, soooo [insert easyfixbandaid]." the freakin 29 pets don't even dual wield unless you have the max level pet. Explain to me exactly the point in that? As the 29 pet for necros is unique in that it can finally DW.

Not to mention the fact the one high enough pet I have gotten so far, hits for the exact same damage as the 24 version. Great fix man, really great stuff. I realllllllllllly feel the progression in that my pet has a tiny bit more hp now, does no more damage, and can't DW like he is intended to.

*twothumbswayup*
I did go through the database, updating all the mage pets today. So maybe they will patch soon. Some did get a max level bump. But nothing special.

And unless I am incorrect, all level 24 pets are supposed to dual weild. I need to go fix that, and make sure all the level 39 pets will do it without weapons too. Unfortunately that means some of the level 20 pets will end up being able to dual weild too due to level overlap, unless I can figure out a way to tie it to teh spell. I just might go for the easy fix. Oh well. If I get time tomorrow, i will be coding that up, along with taking away the hate generated from healing pets.

Haynar

[utenan]

Some people do actually appreciate the work and effort you guys put in to fix things (a lot of forum posters are blatant assholes,Im sure you are aware), so I would just like to say thanks. If you keep working like you are everything will get sorted out eventually. I am not sure what people will bitch about then, but I have confidence that they will find something : p

[finalgrunt]

We need to differenciate the pet's level from the spell's level.

For example, - if I'm correct - all pets from the same spell, whatever their level is, have the same abilities.

So a level 23 pet summoned with the level 24 spell should have dual wield ability without weapons. The ability to dual wield with weapons isn't tied to the pet's level, but to the spell itself.

While a level 24 pet summoned with the level 20 spell (I know it can't happen, but it's for the sake of the example), shouldn't be able to dual wield with weapons. Because it's not its nature.

To sum up ... pet's level only affects its dmg and health. Spell level affects the pet abilities.

The pet stats from the table used are correct imo, and pets are now what they used to be. However, pets in classic had maxed stats, so had a slightly better hit rating. At the moment it misses a tad too much. Sadly, it's hard to put a hand on a dmg parser from that era. Too many single hits, clearly not enough double hits, and quad hits are too rare.

[Humerox]

Meh. I been gone for 3 months and played last night...didn't even notice the difference.

Maybe people will stop complaining about mages now, lol. We were a tad bit OP. Just a tad bit. ;)

[Cronoclops]

Dude Haynar, thank you so very much for completely fucking up the pets man. Cheers.

Thanks to "There are just so many pets to deal with, soooo [insert easyfixbandaid]." the freakin 29 pets don't even dual wield unless you have the max level pet. Explain to me exactly the point in that? As the 29 pet for necros is unique in that it can finally DW.

Not to mention the fact the one high enough pet I have gotten so far, hits for the exact same damage as the 24 version. Great fix man, really great stuff. I realllllllllllly feel the progression in that my pet has a tiny bit more hp now, does no more damage, and can't DW like he is intended to.

*twothumbswayup*

But brah he did it all on his own free time...so it's cool.

[mmiles8]

the freakin 29 pets don't even dual wield unless you have the max level pet.

Did you even play during the first three expansions?

[Haynar]

We need to differenciate the pet's level from the spell's level.

For example, - if I'm correct - all pets from the same spell, whatever their level is, have the same abilities.

So a level 23 pet summoned with the level 24 spell should have dual wield ability without weapons. The ability to dual wield with weapons isn't tied to the pet's level, but to the spell itself.

While a level 24 pet summoned with the level 20 spell (I know it can't happen, but it's for the sake of the example), shouldn't be able to dual wield with weapons. Because it's not its nature.

To sum up ... pet's level only affects its dmg and health. Spell level affects the pet abilities.

The pet stats from the table used are correct imo, and pets are now what they used to be. However, pets in classic had maxed stats, so had a slightly better hit rating. At the moment it misses a tad too much. Sadly, it's hard to put a hand on a dmg parser from that era. Too many single hits, clearly not enough double hits, and quad hits are too rare.
For now, the pet being able to dual wield is tied to the pet level. Not to the spell. I have to recode some things to tie them to spells. And until I get some time to do that, you will get the benefit of pets dual wielding at high level pets from lower level spells. I put a quick patch together, so it might go in real soon.

There will not be any big changes to pet damage outputs, until I rewrite mob mitigation, with changes to client damage too. That involves quite a few changes, including the addition of class specific damage tables. Similar to the client AC mitigation changes, its not a simple task.

Haynar

[rioisk]

Haynar you take a lot of shit and everybody knows how much time you put into coding this stuff to be classic.

IMO you should have just left it the way it was. Wasn't as messed up as it is now. I mean, why nerf pets to "classic levels" without giving them the "sword of rune" bug? I mean....it's not classic power unless they're nerfed + have a persistent bug.

just my loving 2 cents

[finalgrunt]

Haynar you take a lot of shit and everybody knows how much time you put into coding this stuff to be classic.

IMO you should have just left it the way it was. Wasn't as messed up as it is now. I mean, why nerf pets to "classic levels" without giving them the "sword of rune" bug? I mean....it's not classic power unless they're nerfed + have a persistent bug.

just my loving 2 cents

Pets aren't messed up, you can't say that. Just need to tune some stuff around that's all. When was the swords of runes proccing on everything fixed already? Can't remember.

[Reiker]

It reminds me of Vanguard, just opposite. On Vanguard half the cleric abilities were bugged, but they were compensated over time for a lot of their shit not working and they were balanced around it. But then in one patch they fixed all the broken shit, and then added even more shit, and you ended up with this completely broken class. Only the opposite is happening here, where only certain parts of "classic updates" are going in which is making pet classes perform less and less like classic.

Note: I don't even play a pet class.

[Aryane]

So I'm a low level necro. I just dinged level 12, mem'd my new pet, and excitedly cast it. Thus far I have gone through two stacks of bone chips and have yet to see a pet higher than light blue. I assume this is not working as intended.

[Haynar]

Yes actually I started right before Kunark and played heavily from Kunark until PoP. Anything else you need to know about http://strategywiki.org/wiki/EverQuest/Character_classes/Necromancer/Pet ?

The ability to DW should be tied to the spell level, no matter what the pet ends up spawning as. The damage, sure. But the abilities, no.
Then code it up Mr. Smartypants.

I am so sick of the pet classes and their non stop whining. I think I will go work on some other classes for awhile.

Haynar

[Zordana]

Then code it up Mr. Smartypants.

I am so sick of the pet classes and their non stop whining. I think I will go work on some other classes for awhile.

Haynar

the character im currently leveling is a pet class (necro) but srsly.. take a break from the friggn pet classes, probably the solution flies by (is often that way ;))

and to all the whiners: shut the fuck up if you cant contribute more than "QQ THIS IS NOT WORKING QQ" instead of a fix or at last an idea for a fix or anything....
all you cause with your stupid whining is developers gettin tired of working on things, cause it will end in QQing anyways..

pointing out that some changes fucked up things is one thing, but this goes to far, idiots!

btw... REMEMBER: the developers take their fucking free time to make p99, appreciate it or go to hell!

[eqholmes]

Then code it up Mr. Smartypants.

I am so sick of the pet classes and their non stop whining. I think I will go work on some other classes for awhile.

Haynar

Sweet balls, I have a nerco but find him boring to be honest, and I agree pet classes need to stop bitching. Seriously nercos/mages should never whine, NEVER, and druid/shamans are the next ones on the list that can't bitch. The 2 most powerful solo classes in the game bitching? cmon!

If your going to help a class make it rangers, I should bitch because my ranger cant solo everything that a mage/nerco can. Thats a joke..... but in all seriousness I'm sick of mages/nercos crying about anything, we are by far the most powerful classes in the game, suck it up or go play a new game.

Holmes 50 Nerco DA
Gretzky 46 Ranger DA

[Cronoclops]

Then code it up Mr. Smartypants.

I am so sick of the pet classes and their non stop whining. I think I will go work on some other classes for awhile.

Haynar

/pity the next class

[Kani]

So I'm a low level necro. I just dinged level 12, mem'd my new pet, and excitedly cast it. Thus far I have gone through two stacks of bone chips and have yet to see a pet higher than light blue. I assume this is not working as intended.

I have a necro alt and experienced nearly the same thing a couple days ago. I chain casted 20 pets and all were either dblue or lblue. I've come to the conclusion after playing a couple more lvls, that I will never summon another even con pet.

And if it helps I was level 12 as well, using the level 12 pet spell.

[Qaedain]

You can still get an even con at level 12, they're just quite rare compared to the other levels you can summon.

This was how it was on live

[Reiker]

Then code it up Mr. Smartypants.

I am so sick of the pet classes and their non stop whining. I think I will go work on some other classes for awhile.

Haynar

Awesome response from a dev. "I overnerfed a large number of the classes in the game, people are complaining but fuck you!" Haynar, you've added a lot of positive fixes for P99 but this wasn't one of them. No need to get so defensive bro.

and to all the whiners: shut the fuck up if you cant contribute more than "QQ THIS IS NOT WORKING QQ" instead of a fix or at last an idea for a fix or anything....
all you cause with your stupid whining is developers gettin tired of working on things, cause it will end in QQing anyways..

A lot of people have been doing nothing but contributing valuable information in an attempt to get this fixed.

[tal597]

Druids pets (charm) are acting strangely. When I send my pet in to attack, it hits the mob once then runs back to me. I have to spam attack to keep it on the mob. This seems broken, but I don't use pets much. I can't say if it was caused by this patch.

Seems to be fixed. Thanks.

[Arksa_Apocrypha]

Didn't read the entire thread and sorry if mentioned previously. Gems(the side game) was certainly not classic while functioning as intended buff times were.

Now to be fair I haven't played in a few weeks as I took a break because of that latter issue. If we are gonna be classic with mana regen times etc then buffs HAVE to last the intended period.
Gems SHOULD be excluded if we are going with the classic experience philosophy. Personally I do enjoy the return to challenge etc but not the lack of customization.

A tiny bit hypocritical to include Gems while forcing '99 graphics and customization and emu spell durations( I know it may be an issue with the client but so much else has been fixed why not buff lengths?)

My shiny 2 cps -)

[Eyry]

I did go through the database, updating all the mage pets today. So maybe they will patch soon. Some did get a max level bump. But nothing special.

And unless I am incorrect, all level 24 pets are supposed to dual weild. I need to go fix that, and make sure all the level 39 pets will do it without weapons too. Unfortunately that means some of the level 20 pets will end up being able to dual weild too due to level overlap, unless I can figure out a way to tie it to teh spell. I just might go for the easy fix. Oh well. If I get time tomorrow, i will be coding that up, along with taking away the hate generated from healing pets.

Haynar

I must admit I was a little apprehensive about the patch when it first came out. But now that it has sunk in a little, I am glad that they did it. Haynar has done a great job dealing with all the sarcastic, smart ass remarks from what I have seen. Charms, your a douche bag. Haynar might have more class to not tell it to you on the forums but I don't...so there.

If you are going to bitch and moan about something, do it before you come on the forums. Offer support in a constructive manner and not QQ over your "broken toy".

That being said...

I have not noticed anything "earth shattering" yet. I have summoned a green pet and a few LB pets, but nothing consecutively.

As for using the level 20 pet spell and summoning a pet that hits for the same and has the same DS as a pet summoned from the level 24 pet, that is a little off. There should be a noticeable difference between the 2 pet spells. If the pet spells were intended to scale this way, they would have given mages 1 single spell at level 4 called summon pet, the pet would scale as you level, and it would be used till 50.

Just my observations.

Thanks Haynar for the good work so far, keep it up!

[Zordana]

Awesome response from a dev. "I overnerfed a large number of the classes in the game, people are complaining but fuck you!" Haynar, you've added a lot of positive fixes for P99 but this wasn't one of them. No need to get so defensive bro.


*sigh*


A lot of people have been doing nothing but contributing valuable information in an attempt to get this fixed.

if you cant read, dont reply! i was talking about the whiners which dont contribute and i wrote that clearly..

[Schultes]

Bottom line is Necros and Mages always had sick pets! Soloing things all day that whole groups are fighting(Even after the freaking patch). Do you want proof to my claim? Simply check out The Oasis.
But come on why do this to Enchanters? I cant even freaking solo Blue camian without lossing my lvl 16 chanter pet with Quickness and buffed up. I dump all my mana in one croc then wait 20mins to med back up while i watch Necros kite all day and Mages solo Red crocs with the greatest of ease. Most of which are a much lower lvl then me!!!

It seems the main focus for the patch caught Enchanters in the cross fire. All i ask is please look into it.

[Zordana]

http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/4096/beatdeadhorse.jpg

[Haynar]

Bottom line is Necros and Mages always had sick pets! Soloing things all day that whole groups are fighting(Even after the freaking patch). Do you want proof to my claim? Simply check out The Oasis.
But come on why do this to Enchanters? I cant even freaking solo Blue camian without lossing my lvl 16 chanter pet with Quickness and buffed up. I dump all my mana in one croc then wait 20mins to med back up while i watch Necros kite all day and Mages solo Red crocs with the greatest of ease. Most of which are a much lower lvl then me!!!

It seems the main focus for the patch caught Enchanters in the cross fire. All i ask is please look into it.
There is not much data on the enchanter pets. Like in how well they tank, dps they do, etc. The only comparison I would do is compared old world zones on live and see if I can get it close.

All pets probably need adjusted and I will need a few hours of parses to get it done. Its on my list of things to do.

I have no intention of moving backward. I do have plans to move forward. I would like to play my necro some more (since 2 boxing is not allowed on server *grumble). But I am not going to make changes only in my interest. I just need more data on what kind of dps pets are doing at various levels, and how much dps damage they are taking.

There is lots of talk about people who think they are contributing. Non-stop bitching just will cause me to /rude and make you wait longer. Squeaky wheels dont always get the grease in my book.

And for the people who think I should fix everything, before I make a single change. Well, you need to go work on your own server for awhile. Then you might figure out that making multiple changes affecting the same thing ends up going bad most of the time. Doing changes in stages, taking small steps, lets you see better what is working, and what isn't. Not all changes are simple. And many changes have unexpected side effects.

I am not just making little changes to the code. Some changes are big. Some are total rewrites in the code. Some changes are features that have never worked on EMU servers. Truthfully, I spend way more time researching, than I actually do coding. Some complicated things only need 1 line of code to fix. The real trick, is figuring out where that one line of code goes.

Haynar

[mmiles8]

Yes actually I started right before Kunark and played heavily from Kunark until PoP. Anything else you need to know about http://strategywiki.org/wiki/EverQue...ecromancer/Pet ?

The ability to DW should be tied to the spell level, no matter what the pet ends up spawning as. The damage, sure. But the abilities, no.

It is tied to the level of your pet, and not the spell. This is how it was in classic. Is there anything else you need to know about them?

Q: At what level will a Necromancer pet be able to dual weild?
A: Necromancer pets can often wield from Level 24 up, and reliably from Level 29 and up. (http://web.archive.org/web/20010124090400/eq.castersrealm.com/faq/faq.asp?Action=Show&Class=Necromancer)

[Schultes]

Thanks Haynar! Your doing a awesome job! Keep up the good work. Do whatever you think feels right.
Just don't give the people what they want or you end up with Luclin and a craptastic bazaar.

So far its been the most fun i ever had on any EQ server! Since 1999

[HamNCheese]

I have to be honest. After seeing how overpowered mages were, and why. I almost made a mage to level up, and farm stuff for my other characters. But I resisted that urge.

The pet changes were not meant to be a diss on pet classes. Its just one of those things.
Haynar

BTW there are 3 other pet classes that got hit by this patch.

[Drakul]

I never said that these changes were meant to balance anything.

There were complaints, that the higher level pet focus items for mages had no advantage over the low level items. That is what I was investigating. My investigation led me to determine that pet level variance was not "classic" and the pet focus items were not "classic".

I bowed to the complaining mages, and fixed the higher level mage focus items, so they are useful.

Be careful what you ask for. You might actually get it.

Haynar

Lowbies like myself sure didn't ask for this, but it looks like a huge boon to max level mages in big guilds.

[anthony210]

I like the pic, but wtf?