Are we looking for this...?

[Meiva]

"Quellious informs us after Zeb's release, during PoP, that time has been reset. Verrant had only written through Planes of Power... SoE took over after Velious... My Gods! Verrant wrote the expansions through PoP (the story line) and SoE fucked it up after SoE took over during Velious expansion. Luclin, and PoP, need some work but may be AMAZING expansions! End to PoK and PoK stones! The end to the Bazaar! The end to the Nexus porting (aside from a Wizard whom may port you up)! The end to mounts! This may (in my unhealthy imagination) be the formula for the BEST gaming experience ever!!!"

I risk sabotaging my "EverQuest Hoaxes" thread, but this is something I posted that makes too much sense to me. I never HATED Luclin, or PoP. I only hated aspects of it... I did then despise GoD... The first expansion lore SoE would have written...

Remember all. Verrant (our EQ Trilogy writers) also wrote Luclin and Planes of Power. SOE only adopted EQ after Velious... SOE fucked up only a few aspects of our game. These few errors may be corrected.

This is also no pressure on our P99 devs. They have done so much than I could have imagined to already have brought us a (quite, nearly, most almost certainly) classic server. Your Team has brought much happiness to myself, and everybody else on these two servers :) But... Please finish Velious!!!

*edit* SoE claimed they couldn't have done what this Team has done! Look up old progression server notes if you can't believe this statement, but I understand you already know and respect this Team greatly :)

[anotherone]

cats on the moon makes me cry ;_;

[SirAlvarex]

SOE owned them from the start. The Lore developer (who had been there from the start) moved onto EQ2 to continue the "Time Reset" storyline. He went by Vhalen on the forums. The EQ2 storyline went to hell too once he left after the Void expansion (can't remember the name).

For instance, Lucan D'Lere was the name of one of Vhalen's characters in a DND game he ran before writing EQ lore. Oh, and the NPC bard "Vhalen." Guy had some talent IMO.

[t0lkien]

An experimental "what should have been" p99 server would actually be pretty cool. I'd be willing to help on something like that - I've been looking at all the EMu tools though, and they seem a bit.... primitive.

[Meiva]

cats on the moon makes me cry ;_;

Well.. Are they not evolved forms of Kerrans? Brought to the moon Luclin while the Combine/Scions were working on these teleportation "skills"? The Combine Spires have been around since Classic...

I can see Kerran pets being brought to Luclin by their Combine slavers. They escape. Learn to survive on an alien planet... I do NOT know Vah' Shir lore, and I feel I must stop before I embarrass myself any further...

[Meiva]

An experimental "what should have been" p99 server would actually be pretty cool. I'd be willing to help on something like that - I've been looking at all the EMu tools though, and they seem a bit.... primitive.

I'd never desire to see anything challenge P99. Seriously, this server is so FRICKEN amazing. I would have never joined an EQ forum if it wasn't for a P99.

*edit* But I would be intrigued by a true Verrant (lore) server. I absolutely am grateful for P99... As we all are (whether you a-holes admit it or not).

[t0lkien]

SOE owned them from the start. The Lore developer (who had been there from the start) moved onto EQ2 to continue the "Time Reset" storyline. He went by Vhalen on the forums. The EQ2 storyline went to hell too once he left after the Void expansion (can't remember the name).

For instance, Lucan D'Lere was the name of one of Vhalen's characters in a DND game he ran before writing EQ lore. Oh, and the NPC bard "Vhalen." Guy had some talent IMO.

This is just not true, but is proof if something is repeated enough everyone eventually thinks it's true. Verant was started by Smed and Brad, and sold to SOE later (during Velious I believe).

I recant. Another bunch of searching has confirmed that Verant was always a subsidiary of SoE (or 989 Studios as it was called at the time).

I'm not sure SOE even existed as SOE at the time Verant was formed. It was called something else first. Sony money was involved I think, but creative control was entirely with Brad et al until the handover (and decline) years later. There are more than a few interviews by Brad and Smed on this if anyone wants to Google, and I linked one on another thread not so long ago.

SOE have the inverse of the golden touch, whatever you call that. They just cannot seem to make good games, and everything they touch turns a brutal shade of mediocre.

[Meiva]

This is just not true, but is proof if something is repeated enough everyone eventually thinks it's true. Verant was started by Smed and Brad, and sold to SOE later (during Velious I believe). I'm not sure SOE even existed as SOE at the time Verant was formed. It was called something else first. Sony money was involved I think, but creative control was entirely with Brad et al until the handover (and decline) years later. There are more than a few interviews by Brad and Smed on this if anyone wants to Google, and I linked one on another thread not so long ago.

SOE have the inverse of the golden touch, whatever you call that. They just cannot make good games, and everything they touch turns a brutal shade of mediocre.

This! Verant (not Verrant, as my prior posts) wrote EQ through PoP. I do, however, believe SoE was around prior to the EQ adoption during the Velious era. I have absolutely NO evidence to back that up, however.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Sounds like a plan to me.

Once Quarm is killed, Norrath reverts back to its origin, and server resets.

Wait, what?

[Gaffin Deeppockets]

Velious and PoP were my fav expansions. I loved PoP, the content was there and the progression was fun, finally beating Coirnav and getting into time after alot of wipes was amazing. Small tear.

[liveitup1216]

Sony always owned EQ. Sony put Smed (while he was making sports games) in charge of Sony Interactive. Sony Interactive became 989 Studios became RedEye became Verant became SOE again once EQ became huge.

They basically gave him his own subsidiary to protect themselves in case EQ flopped and to give him full control.

[liveitup1216]

Decent albeit cheesy EQ documentary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHnDSr-b02Q

[Meiva]

Velious and PoP were my fav expansions. I loved PoP, the content was there and the progression was fun, finally beating Coirnav and getting into time after alot of wipes was amazing. Small tear.

Rathe Council for my guild. We were one of the top three to first reach PoTime... Not to brag, but Cats In Hats (CIH) on Drinal. I remember we only HARDLY lost the Rathe Council kill to... Damn it all! Their guild, on another server, began with a "T" I believe...

Very respected guild, but this thread shouldn't derail in to something it isn't...

[Gaffin Deeppockets]

Rathe Council for my guild. We were one of the top three to first reach PoTime... Not to brag, but Cats In Hats (CIH) on Drinal. I remember we only HARDLY lost the Rathe Council kill to... Damn it all! Their guild, on another server, began with a "T" I believe...

Very respected guild, but this thread shouldn't derail in to something it isn't...

I was in Cats in Hats, but not until shortly after PoP era, I xfered servers. I think your talking about Triton. Sorry to derail, continue on!

[Meiva]

I was in Cats in Hats, but not until shortly after PoP era, I xfered servers. I think your talking about Triton. Sorry to derail, continue on!

Damn you! I do know the guild name was a single word, but not Triton. This guild was revered during Velious as well. I am horrified I forgot their name. Truly amazing accomplishments they had made.

Thank you for being a CIH! I left come GoD expansion, because... well... you likely played then, and so did my BFF. My regards to the both of you...

What was this thread about again?

[Goseals6]

Velious and PoP were my fav expansions. I loved PoP, the content was there and the progression was fun, finally beating Coirnav and getting into time after alot of wipes was amazing. Small tear.

This is a comment I can get behind

[Aeolwind]

Skip Luclin altogether. Very little of it I actually liked. The Deep was nice, Grimling Mines, Grieg's End.. Seru/Katta had a GREAT storyline, shoulda based the whole expansion on it rather than the snakes (high 5 Nilbog). Vex Thal caused the power creep that made POP suck. I did like Ssra though. The mobs were a bit sideways too, went from dragons and giants to fucking weird bugs and aliens. Vamps, Thought Horrors, Grimlings, black robe 4 arm guys: Cool. I'd dump the weird bugs and shit and the aliens though, probably entire zones like Paludal and FG. Disable AA.

Pop; dump POK, dump a large portion of the requirements for flagging, Req for time is just the Elemental Planes, can follow story for nifty range item (Dump Trinket). I was kinda pissed at POP, I wasn't in a raiding guild (by choice) in that expansion. When I had access to like 3 zones besides POK I was pretty hot under the collar. Thankfully I found a great farm spot in POJ for AA.

GOD; problems that Discord had were 2 fold: It didn't fit, and it didn't include the level increase it was supposed too. The storyline for Discord was actually really slick (Breakdown in Communication), but it didn't fit in with the rest of EQ. The mobs were WTF weird. Would have been easier to sell if it were an existing deities schtick rather than weird galactic conquerors whose names we couldn't pronounce...just like the Vex Thal. The boat was stupid and pointless, the starting zone was a PITA. It was just a confusing linear grind that was too hard to be fun.

[Meiva]

Only the second, and last, water zone to make sense (somewhat)... I too enjoyed slaying Coirnav after swimming through a few tunnels, and raid-slaying a few caster horse fish.

This kill happened to be very rewarding.

[Frieza_Prexus]

You know,

I would LOVE to jump straight into PoP after, say, a year of Velious. Those fights would be incredible with out all the Luclin gear.

[Meiva]

This is a comment I can get behind

Skip Luclin altogether. Very little of it I actually liked. The Deep was nice, Grimling Mines, Grieg's End.. Seru/Katta had a GREAT storyline, shoulda based the whole expansion on it rather than the snakes (high 5 Nilbog). Vex Thal caused the power creep that made POP suck. I did like Ssra though. The mobs were a bit sideways too, went from dragons and giants to fucking weird bugs and aliens. Vamps, Thought Horrors, Grimlings, black robe 4 arm guys: Cool. I'd dump the weird bugs and shit and the aliens though, probably entire zones like Paludal and FG. Disable AA.

Pop; dump POK, dump a large portion of the requirements for flagging, Req for time is just the Elemental Planes, can follow story for nifty range item (Dump Trinket). I was kinda pissed at POP, I wasn't in a raiding guild (by choice) in that expansion. When I had access to like 3 zones besides POK I was pretty hot under the collar. Thankfully I found a great farm spot in POJ for AA.

GOD; problems that Discord had were 2 fold: It didn't fit, and it didn't include the level increase it was supposed too. The storyline for Discord was actually really slick (Breakdown in Communication), but it didn't fit in with the rest of EQ. The mobs were WTF weird. Would have been easier to sell if it were an existing deities schtick rather than weird galactic conquerors whose names we couldn't pronounce...just like the Vex Thal. The boat was stupid and pointless, the starting zone was a PITA. It was just a confusing linear grind that was too hard to be fun.

I had raided everything pre-Luclin. I missed Luclin, but then raided PoP. I remember lots of leveling-alts fun during Luclin. I have zero knowledge of the raid scene...

PoP was demi-God after demi-God then God... You were expected to slay the Gods (which MIGHT explain why this is where the Verant story ended) but after SoE took over PoP god mobs were instead ILLUSIONS (something of the sort)! The story of Norrath intended to end, yet never end, with Planes of Power...

This should end with, SoE shouldn't have designed two expansions to lead in to a (is EQLive at 19 expansions???) Verant did not write this story, and they obviously wrote great stories. We are all excited for Velious.

*edit* I would never attempt to task you all with preparing Luclin or PoP (to our standards). All of what you have done so far is incredible. I couldn't even ask you for Velious. The P1999 Dev team is amazing.

[Goseals6]

PoN Hedge Maze was fun as well as the Tribunal Event. I didn't mind the flagging so much, probably because my guild at the time burned through the entire thing in one night to flag 10 or so members. Plus the Zeb story was pretty interesting. Portal trinket was pretty handy for non-portal people to get out of bad places or places you couldn't leave.

I agree that PoK was a nightmare hub and negated a lot of the usefulness of druids/wiz but at the same time alleviated spam tells for ports.

Luclin was the expansion I started on. PC was fun but I hated trying to navigate through the god awful lagfest of the Baz. I never got on a VT run but did most of Ssra and I enjoyed it.

AA's. I have mixed feelings about this subject. On one hand, they were a good way to promote grouping and on another, a never ending nightmare. MGB was one of the most efficient of them all honestly. I felt that the minor one's were just fluff and had no business there.

GoD was just awful and I hated every bit of it.

That's just my 2 cents worth.

Im anxious for Velious as I didn't get to experience much of that at all. Except the Coldain War Event which was just friggin awesome.

[Gaffin Deeppockets]

I liked GoD, but I felt like it was more of a top end geared player expansion, and only good for raiding, basically saying if you didnt have top end gear it was pretty miserable for you, mobs were unbalanced, and leashing was very fubar.

[Goseals6]

I liked GoD, but I felt like it was more of a top end geared player expansion, and only good for raiding, basically saying if you didnt have top end gear it was pretty miserable for you, mobs were unbalanced, and leashing was very fubar.

I can tell you as a MT, it felt like I got hit by a train filled with smaller trains being pulled by The Rock. Epic 1.5 was a PITA to get and so were the flagging trials. Nearly everything summoned so kiting as a bard was impossible.

What server were you on?? I used to be one of the MT's in Midwinter on Kayne Bayle(AB after merger)

[t0lkien]

Decent albeit cheesy EQ documentary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHnDSr-b02Q

Thanks for the link! Man, why oh why are these guys who became "names" in the early days of the industry such wankers? Seriously, it's endemic within the games industry. What is it about games that attracts these guys.

[Meiva]

Thanks for the link! Man, why oh why are these guys who became "names" in the early days of the industry such wankers? Seriously, it's endemic within the games industry. What is it about games that attracts these guys.

I would have watched this, but cant now. I sincerely appreciate your review. You have been nothing, but, positive to our community... Even on the Red forums... No hate on Red as this is the server I currently enjoy my time on.

[Meiva]

PoN Hedge Maze was fun as well as the Tribunal Event. I didn't mind the flagging so much, probably because my guild at the time burned through the entire thing in one night to flag 10 or so members. Plus the Zeb story was pretty interesting. Portal trinket was pretty handy for non-portal people to get out of bad places or places you couldn't leave.

I agree that PoK was a nightmare hub and negated a lot of the usefulness of druids/wiz but at the same time alleviated spam tells for ports.

Luclin was the expansion I started on. PC was fun but I hated trying to navigate through the god awful lagfest of the Baz. I never got on a VT run but did most of Ssra and I enjoyed it.

AA's. I have mixed feelings about this subject. On one hand, they were a good way to promote grouping and on another, a never ending nightmare. MGB was one of the most efficient of them all honestly. I felt that the minor one's were just fluff and had no business there.

GoD was just awful and I hated every bit of it.

That's just my 2 cents worth.

Im anxious for Velious as I didn't get to experience much of that at all. Except the Coldain War Event which was just friggin awesome.

PoP flagging, whether rushed or not, was a some-kind-of life experience. It was truly amazing. Agreed that PoK, and Bazaar sucked. I love your post! I only feel that Luclin may deserve more love. The Bazzar should have never been implemented... Nor Luclin spires, or PoK and its stones.

[t0lkien]

I would have watched this, but cant now. I sincerely appreciate your review. You have been nothing, but, positive to our community... Even on the Red forums... No hate on Red as this is the server I currently enjoy my time on.

I don't think I've ever once visited the Red forums o_O.

The documentary is interesting by the way and worth watching, though it directly contradicts earlier interviews with both Smed and Brad, so I'm guessing things have been "massaged" to make it a cleaner story. That or the original interviews were wrong. This version puts SOE right there at the beginning and there is no mention of Verant at all, which is weird.

All credit to Smed and those guys for what they did though. It was a very cool thing to have pulled off.

"We were the crazy guys, moving away from the core of the business. The game was being made for the game's sake" - and this is why it was great.

[Meiva]

I don't think I've ever once visited the Red forums o_O.

The documentary is interesting by the way and worth watching, though it directly contradicts earlier interviews with both Smed and Brad, so I'm guessing things have been "massaged" to make it a cleaner story. That or the original interviews were wrong. This version puts SOE right there at the beginning and there is no mention of Verant at all, which is weird.

All credit to Smed and those guys for what they did though. It was a very cool thing to have pulled off.

I clicked your EverCracked link, and recall it being BS... I'm sorry man, but "youtube" and "google" doesn't answer much of our EQ drama.

I honestly have much respect for you!

[fastboy21]

Yet another "Verant was a genius and dumb SOE screwed it all up" thread. Its only been a decade, maybe time to move on?

[JurisDictum]

The end to the Bazaar!
I never agreed with this. Not everyone wants to play Day Trade Online for hours to get decent prices for gear they buy/sell. The lack of Bazaar also makes mudflation a lot worse for starting players. It can be really hard to find anyone selling lower/medium priced gear, because its not worth the time to sit around actively trying to sell.

[Reguiy]

You know,

I would LOVE to jump straight into PoP after, say, a year of Velious. Those fights would be incredible with out all the Luclin gear.

[liveitup1216]

Thanks for the link! Man, why oh why are these guys who became "names" in the early days of the industry such wankers? Seriously, it's endemic within the games industry. What is it about games that attracts these guys.

No problem! Once Verant got folded back into Sony and they moved people around I'm sure thats what caused the schism of game design for EQ. So in a way wording it as Sony ruined Verant's game isn't that far off. It became an issue of too many hands on deck and them trying to capitalize on the success/work of those few designers truly put their lives into the game.

It was an instance where giving them more money, time, and manpower hurt the game way more than it helped.

[porigromus]

I never agreed with this. Not everyone wants to play Day Trade Online for hours to get decent prices for gear they buy/sell. The lack of Bazaar also makes mudflation a lot worse for starting players. It can be really hard to find anyone selling lower/medium priced gear, because its not worth the time to sit around actively trying to sell.

It is the way they did it, should have been completed like the auction house in WoW, LOTRO, or some other game that did it correctly.

[Meiva]

I never agreed with this. Not everyone wants to play Day Trade Online for hours to get decent prices for gear they buy/sell. The lack of Bazaar also makes mudflation a lot worse for starting players. It can be really hard to find anyone selling lower/medium priced gear, because its not worth the time to sit around actively trying to sell.

Well. Your char must be logged in, and that account tied-up by your Bazaar mule. That meant a $15 a month mule account for some.

Global chat may be a simple solution to a world that expands too large. WTS/WTT channel. This would mean the death to EC tunnel, but the transactions are still community driven. You are organizing to meet at a certain location, possibly purchasing a port.

[Rhambuk]

would love to see pop on this server with no luclin. Would be a real challenge after some of the cakewalk raids weve had here, not bashing the devs or anything just with the numbers and information we have nothing is a challenge.

But I would love to see ssra put in, maybe somewhere in kunark where they used to be.

[Gadwen]

I never agreed with this. Not everyone wants to play Day Trade Online for hours to get decent prices for gear they buy/sell. The lack of Bazaar also makes mudflation a lot worse for starting players. It can be really hard to find anyone selling lower/medium priced gear, because its not worth the time to sit around actively trying to sell.

I actually liked the bazaar. The novelty of EC trading wore off a long time ago for me on this server lol. The bazaar allowed newer players to make money off of, and also acquire cheap items that would have otherwise just been sold to vendors. Words, runes, tradeskill components etc. as well as lower end gear.

It also created a more competitive sales environment for higher end gear, sellers couldn't just sell items for top dollar all the time when there were 50 other people in the bazaar selling the same thing. It was a more realistic representation of the actual supply of items on the server.

Sitting in EC for 5 hours and paying top dollar for the items you want really doesn't excite me.

[Pringles]

I loved the game up through PoP, after that.... meh.

[Rhambuk]

The only good thing after pop was the berserker class, just wish they implemented earlier.

The worst part was bazaar berserkers could easily outdps raid rogues, so messed up.

[myriverse]

cats on the moon makes me cry ;_;
Racist!

[Vexenu]

People need to stop hating on the EC tunnel. It's core to the classic EQ experience.

EQ is an item-driven game and a community-driven game. The EC tunnel combines both aspects and therefore acts as the central hub of the server.

If you don't like sitting around and auctioning your items, sell them to a trader for below market rate. Or create a WTS thread on the forum and keep it bumped. It's not difficult. No one is forcing you to sit in the tunnel for 5 hours a day.

Item buying and selling in a real-time market is simply one of the major aspects of the game that sets classic EQ apart from every other MMO. Without it, the game world feels much more sterile. A classic server without an EC tunnel market is not classic at all.

[SirAlvarex]

Games have new producers, which I don't doubt happened from expansion to expansion. Smed would have *had* to move on to EQ2 at some point, so him leaving EQ and Brad jumping ship ~Luclin probably had something to do with it.

There's no doubt the "vision" got squandered after Velious, but it isn't straight up "SOE the devil's" fault. The only fault the SOE brand would have for ruining EQ is bringing in a new Producer that went away from the old hat development. Also, losing Vhalen really sucked, because he was one hell of a story-teller. EQ2 had a story arc that revealed itself over what, 7 expansions?

The documentary is great for revealing this. Although I'm not a fan of Jace Hall, it really helps show the misconceptions the community had for a long time. It's also why I have some faith in Smed for EQ Next. The guy's original vision is why we have EQ, and he along with Brad helped mold the game we're playing 14 years later.

[Briscoe]

(aside from a Wizard whom may port you up)

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Rathe Council for my guild. We were one of the top three to first reach PoTime... Not to brag, but Cats In Hats (CIH) on Drinal. I remember we only HARDLY lost the Rathe Council kill to... Damn it all! Their guild, on another server, began with a "T" I believe...

Very respected guild, but this thread shouldn't derail in to something it isn't...

Oh man, if p99 could recreate the original release rathe council.

It was undoable, right? Yeah yeah, I know: unfinished expansion was unfinished.

But it would be such a hoot, really, if p99 eventually recreated how freakin hard that encounter was.

And yeah, my guild on quellious did rathe council without bard mezz. That makes me a superstar!

Or -- someone who knew how to use an egg timer for an hour+.

Hey, my mobs stayed locked down, that's all I know.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

People need to stop hating on the EC tunnel. It's core to the classic EQ experience.

EQ is an item-driven game and a community-driven game. The EC tunnel combines both aspects and therefore acts as the central hub of the server.

If you don't like sitting around and auctioning your items, sell them to a trader for below market rate. Or create a WTS thread on the forum and keep it bumped. It's not difficult. No one is forcing you to sit in the tunnel for 5 hours a day.

Item buying and selling in a real-time market is simply one of the major aspects of the game that sets classic EQ apart from every other MMO. Without it, the game world feels much more sterile. A classic server without an EC tunnel market is not classic at all.

^this

[pharmakos]

This! Verant (not Verrant, as my prior posts) wrote EQ through PoP. I do, however, believe SoE was around prior to the EQ adoption during the Velious era. I have absolutely NO evidence to back that up, however.

you insisted in the other thread on us showing you sources about Sony owning Verant, but then you make claims and openly admit you have no evidence to back it up?

huh?

[Gadwen]

People need to stop hating on the EC tunnel. It's core to the classic EQ experience.

EQ is an item-driven game and a community-driven game. The EC tunnel combines both aspects and therefore acts as the central hub of the server.

If you don't like sitting around and auctioning your items, sell them to a trader for below market rate. Or create a WTS thread on the forum and keep it bumped. It's not difficult. No one is forcing you to sit in the tunnel for 5 hours a day.

Item buying and selling in a real-time market is simply one of the major aspects of the game that sets classic EQ apart from every other MMO. Without it, the game world feels much more sterile. A classic server without an EC tunnel market is not classic at all.

Don't worry man, the bazaar is never going to be implemented here. Someone saying that they enjoyed a certain feature of an expansion past Velious is not an attempt to hijack P99.