Do pets break mez on this server? V2.0

[Quitis]

Absolutely. Follow the following golden rules to prevent being a horrible pet user.

1.Bind any hotkey to a new social that does /pet back off.
2.Do not park your pet, keep them on /pet follow me.


3.Ask the enchanter in your party to use a social to cast their mez spell that announces the attempt. Mine is, "Attempting to lock down %t, LEAVE IT ALONE!"

4. Run to the other side of the very small room, or large room, or large area.
5. Make use of the hotkey to back your pet off whenever you see the message. Repeat use until your pet is walking towards you. Repeat use if it ever stops walking towards you. Remember if you parked your pet, it won't always walk far away from the agro that is getting mes'd or rooted and may get re'agrod by melee or aoe, the farther you get it to walk away the better.

6. Reassist the tank to verify the target your pet should have been attacking.

7. Keep your /pet attack on a seperate key from your assist key.

8. Use /pet attack after you have seen the assist target take a visible amount of damage, this way you know for sure its the proper assist target, and can assume the tank has some hate built up.

Last but not least. If all else fails, destroy your pet. It's a small price to pay to save your party from a potentially bad wipe or a dead enchanter.

[Derpus]

thanks for this

[Goobles]

Another thing you'll want to avoid is being the odd man out in a 7man efreeti group, and not knowing which mob is mezzed due to poor communication.

[apollyon arali]

Interesting..

I puroposely tried to send pet on mezzed mobs and got message not able to attack..or something like that So im saying this is not correct and pets ..at least necro pet cant break mezzed mobs. Ive tried several times just to double check.


hrmmm

[Lazortag]

3.Ask the enchanter in your party to use a social to cast their mez spell that announces the attempt. Mine is, "Attempting to lock down %t, LEAVE IT ALONE!"

What's the point? No one ever listens to these messages.

[Quitis]

Interesting..

I puroposely tried to send pet on mezzed mobs and got message not able to attack..or something like that So im saying this is not correct and pets ..at least necro pet cant break mezzed mobs. Ive tried several times just to double check.


hrmmm

Ok time to explain pet mechanics 101 again.

MOST IMPORTANT THING TO LEARN. Your pet has a HATE LIST just like any other NPC in the game.

Your pet will ACTIVELY ATTACK EVERYTHING on it's hate list unless it is stunned, rooted out of range, or mes'd by the NPC on it's hate list.

Now lets talk about those nasty hate lists.

1. If you tell your pet to attack any NPC a check is made to determine if that NPC is attackable (Is it charmed, mes'd, or some players pet?). If it is attackable that NPC will then be placed on your pets Hate List. If it is not attackable the NPC will not go on your pets hate list and you will get an error message that your pet is unable to attack that target.

2. If you or your pet take any damage or agro from spells and abilities from any NPC, that NPC will automatically go onto your pets hate list.

3. If you tell your pet to /pet back off, your pet does not calm down, does not walk back towards you, does not stop attacking. The only thing that command does is WIPE THE PETS HATE LIST. It does that one simple thing and then, because the hate list is now empty for your pet, that is why all those other things happen. That is why it calms down, stops attacking and goes back to it's guard point or back to the player. Because you wiped it's hate list. BUT you must absolutely keep that hate list clear or it may re-agro. This is why you need to use the command multiple times to wipe that hate list.

So in conclusion. Your job as a pet class is to keep your pets hate list clear of all NPC's that are not the MAIN ASSIST. Failure to keep your pets hate list clear is what makes you a horrible pet caster.

Yes there is a mechanic in game, tied directly into /pet attack, that prevents putting NPC's on your pet's hate list, that are unattackable, and yes, that are Mes'd. But that is the only thing helping you do your job. Everything else is up to the pet caster.

[PhelanKA]

I'm not sure I understand why you suggest keeping pets on follow and not park. One of the worst things that can happen is a pet standing in a bad spot where a big pull could aggro him. It's much more controllable to park him a known safe spot where you don't have to get up and lead him around to a good spot after every fight.

IMO, you're over-complicating the issue.

[Vexden]

This is Deja Vu

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=10301

Mine was moved because of the way I put it, but that is fine, glad to know others are concerned too.

I have not played a mage much (one of the few classes I have not played past 50) but from what I understand with pets, making them sit I would think is almost like the same taunt as a player sitting. Setting to guard doesn't do much better, which is why I usually park the pet away from where mobs are being brought in, or fought at.

[fastboy21]

What's the point? No one ever listens to these messages.

the "i am casting mez" message is the most important part of pet control imo.

if you use a pet as soon as you see this message just automatically get into the habit of hitting your pet back off key (just once is fine). this insures that your pet will not be beating on the mob when the chanter's mez lands on its target.

As for pets not being able to break mez, this is only part true. And its the part that is untrue that is most important. Pets can NOT wake a mob if it is already mezzed (i.e. if you push /pet attack and your target is a mezzed mob nothing will happen). However, and this is the important bit, if the pet is already attacking a mob and it is mezzed the pet will not stop, it will continue its attacks, and wake the mob...first pissing the chanter off, followed by killing him, followed by people blaming you for wiping the group.

***
Just a note, pet control is HARD in classic...you can't just be half afk and press assist and /pet attack. if you do you suck at your class, and you will be found out by anyone with half a brain before long.

On another note, everyone on this server seems to think they are a master of EQ because they have all played to max level on live, etc. etc...
I've met plenty of VERY bad players on this server, and most of what annoys me has to do with how they deal with multiple mobs. Tanks don't know who to work with CC classes. Stupid and noob tanks changing targets on incoming without a reason, causing grp members to be on the wrong mob. Tanks that don't use an assist message to let folks know if they needed to change targets. CC that doesn't use a mezzing message, or continually just randomly mezzes mobs as they come into camp, etc...

[Quitis]

I'm not sure I understand why you suggest keeping pets on follow and not park. One of the worst things that can happen is a pet standing in a bad spot where a big pull could aggro him. It's much more controllable to park him a known safe spot where you don't have to get up and lead him around to a good spot after every fight.

IMO, you're over-complicating the issue.

A caster would not sit to med in a bad spot, and since your pet follows you, it will also not be parked in a bad spot. The other reason is because if you are sitting and get agro'd, thus agro'ing your pet, you need to be able to quickly move across the room to another spot, and then have your pet come with you. Other than that is the reason I already mentioned, the NPC in question that has agro on your pet, being right on the spot that you parked your pet at will make clearing the hate list very very hard.

[PhelanKA]

A caster would not sit to med in a bad spot, and since your pet follows you, it will also not be parked in a bad spot. The other reason is because if you are sitting and get agro'd, thus agro'ing your pet, you need to be able to quickly move across the room to another spot, and then have your pet come with you. Other than that is the reason I already mentioned, the NPC in question that has agro on your pet, being right on the spot that you parked your pet at will make clearing the hate list very very hard.

In my years (yes, years) of experience as a necro it is much easier to just find a safe spot for pet and have him guard it. Never had a problem with this tactic. I have had a problem with keeping pets on follow because they don't always come back to the same spot. They also have a fairly long leesh concerning where they'll stop following you too. Could be 1 meter or it could be 5. I prefer to know exactly where my pet goes to when not aggro'd. This is a much better indicator than running him around looking to see if he stops following. If you're having problems breaking enchanters' mezzes, pick a new class is all I have to say.

[fastboy21]

the problem with parking is more about parking the mob in a bad place. this is especially true in dungeons where the camp is cramped and the pulls can come from more than a single direction into camp.

the basic problem is that if the pet is guarding you need to hit two buttons to move him off if he is aggro'd at the parked place (follow, and calm). If the pet is not parked you only need to hit one (calm).

i wouldn't say its an always thing, and given the choice i would prefer to always park...however, there are definitely times when just leaving the pet on follow is better.

its really the discretion of the necro reading the camp what the best thing to do with regards to park/follow. the problem isn't so much the lack of parking/following I have seen with most necros, its that they can't understand why its so important to think about pet positioning at any particular camp...the result being that they just do their thing, and often cause issues.

[mimixownzall]

Another good rule:

Don't assist until all CC is done and only one mob is obviously getting beat on

When you get more advanced, you can actually use your pet to help get mobs off of the enchanter and then time your "back off" when the mez goes off. Vexden and I do this all the time.

[PhelanKA]

the basic problem is that if the pet is guarding you need to hit two buttons to move him off if he is aggro'd at the parked place (follow, and calm). If the pet is not parked you only need to hit one (calm).


Bullcrap.

Maybe it's different for mage pets, but I know for a fact that this is not how necro pets work. I pulled for a small group last night and kept my pet parked at camp. I had no trouble getting him to back off when I got hit. No making him sit, or any other such nonsense. He'd run out, I'd calm him, and he'd walk back to his guard spot. Easy as pie.

[Quitis]

Until you're doing LDC's in SolB and your pet draws agro, gets boiling blood proc'd on it, and refuses to stop agro'ing.. You know why you need to use /pet get lost now right?

[fastboy21]

Bullcrap.

Maybe it's different for mage pets, but I know for a fact that this is not how necro pets work. I pulled for a small group last night and kept my pet parked at camp. I had no trouble getting him to back off when I got hit. No making him sit, or any other such nonsense. He'd run out, I'd calm him, and he'd walk back to his guard spot. Easy as pie.

its this kind of self-assured confidence that newb pet players have that causes the problems. yes, in the scenario you described it isn't a problem. obviously, in an easy camp with easy mobs in an open area it is also easy to control your pet.

you clearly don't have a grasp on how hard it is to control a pet when things aren't easy mode. when you have a tight camp, mobs aggroing pet on incoming as the puller brings them from different directions, mobs AE'ing on incoming, etc.

When every tick counts to whether a group will wipe or not it is extremely important to make sure that the pet is not attacking any mob as mobs come into the camp. this is the entire trick. how you do it is up to you, and i really don't care what solution you find. each player and camp and puller and mezzer are different, and there are lots of ways to do it successfully.

The general problem is:
1. mobs come into camp.
2. one of the mobs aggros the pet
3. the chanter attempts to lock the mobs down
4. the pet keeps waking a mob that the chanter is mezzing
5. the mob now goes for the chanter or the mob goes to the tank
6. the chanter or the tank goes down because the healer can't keep up.
7. the group wipes/mana is wasted making play choppy and slow for exp.

This is the problem. Pet control is the solution. I don't know if its just fools playing pet classes that don't understand the simplicity of this problem, or if they are just so WOW'd out that they think playing a pet class is as simply as assist and attack. Too many crap players with their pocket mages and necros running around on this server.

[fastboy21]

Bullcrap.

Maybe it's different for mage pets, but I know for a fact that this is not how necro pets work. I pulled for a small group last night and kept my pet parked at camp. I had no trouble getting him to back off when I got hit. No making him sit, or any other such nonsense. He'd run out, I'd calm him, and he'd walk back to his guard spot. Easy as pie.

you also failed to understand my post. the problem is when the pet is aggro'd at his parked spot. in that case, hitting back off is useless...why? because the pet wanders back to where he already is, and is already being attacked. hence the pet is instantly reaggro'd and starts attacking. in this case you have to MOVE the pet to a new position, which requires hitting follow and calm. idiot.

[PhelanKA]

you also failed to understand my post. the problem is when the pet is aggro'd at his parked spot. in that case, hitting back off is useless...why? because the pet wanders back to where he already is, and is already being attacked. hence the pet is instantly reaggro'd and starts attacking. in this case you have to MOVE the pet to a new position, which requires hitting follow and calm. idiot.

That's why you park him in a SAFE SPOT. And if his safespot does turn into a cluster you kill your pet. Simple. The only time you should have your pet on follow is outdoors or if you are moving yourself a considerable distance.

Edit: Oh and the "idiot" at the end was a nice touch. Classy. You really sold your argument on that one.

[fastboy21]

Once again, you fail to understand that there is not always a "safe spot" as you describe it. when you tell someone, "[only keep] your pet on follow...outdoors or if you are moving a considerable distance" you reveal yourself as not understanding the subtlety of the necro class or the disaster that will come from your pet breaking a single mez. People should be warned not to group with you in tight situations, because your rule will eventually cause havoc.


Its too bad that you call yourself necromancer extraordinaire when you clearly haven't played a necro in any actual capacity. everybody on this server seems to think they are an expert, and it turns out most of them are phonies.

oh yeah, idiot.

[Theldios]

. everybody on this server seems to think they are an expert, and it turns out most of them are phonies.

oh yeah, idiot.

Including yourself then, you are no expert that is for sure. no one really is all you can do is be good enough to adjust to different situations if you think any rule is hard and fast in anything in life then you need to really take a look around get off the high horse and grow up.

[PhelanKA]

Once again, you fail to understand that there is not always a "safe spot" as you describe it. when you tell someone, "[only keep] your pet on follow...outdoors or if you are moving a considerable distance" you reveal yourself as not understanding the subtlety of the necro class or the disaster that will come from your pet breaking a single mez. People should be warned not to group with you in tight situations, because your rule will eventually cause havoc.


Its too bad that you call yourself necromancer extraordinaire when you clearly haven't played a necro in any actual capacity. everybody on this server seems to think they are an expert, and it turns out most of them are phonies.

oh yeah, idiot.

My way works for me. Never had a problem, but thanks for your concern.

[fastboy21]

Including yourself then, you are no expert that is for sure. no one really is all you can do is be good enough to adjust to different situations if you think any rule is hard and fast in anything in life then you need to really take a look around get off the high horse and grow up.

if you actually read my post you would see that i didn't agree with quitis that follow ALL the time was best, and that I said you need to read the camp, puller, tank, mezzer, etc and choose what is best for the particular situation...but then again, why would you bother to actually read the thread before you post?

and, yes, I stand by my post that there are TONS of people on this server that think they are masters of EQ...and they don't match up after only a few minutes of playing with them. If you wanna lump me into that category without ever playing with me or even reading my posts then your opinion isn't really worth all that much.

[PhelanKA]

If you wanna lump me into that category without ever playing with me or even reading my posts then your opinion isn't really worth all that much.

Seems like you do that with others who disagree with you so why shouldn't we think the same of you?

And why do you say in every single one of your posts "If you had read my post..."? We read your stupid posts. That's the fucking point... Otherwise we wouldn't be talking to you. Which brings up a great point... Why the fuck AM I talking to you?

The End.

[fastboy21]

the point is you speak with authority, but the you are really like a lvl 20 necro with no clue about what you are talking about. the group you cited as evidence was prob in oasis or crushbone.

and, if you don't know why you are posting (you certainly don't know what you are posting) then stop.

[apollyon arali]

Not sure why you feel the need to post your 101

Ok time to explain pet mechanics 101 again..

So in short I was correct.

Pets cant be ordered to attack a mezzed mobs which I already knew.


Yes there is a mechanic in game, tied directly into /pet attack, that prevents putting NPC's on your pet's hate list, that are unattackable, and yes, that are Mes'd. But that is the only thing helping you do your job. Everything else is up to the pet caster.

[Quitis]

Sure, you can order your pet to attack all you want, its that one little mechanic that prevents the targetted Mes'd, Charmed, whatever NPC from being put on your hate list that everyone needs to learn about so they know that there is only one thing preventing their pet from attacking a mes'd mob, and a whole slew of other crap that will cause their pet to attack a mes'd mob anyway.

Btw, I know I mentioned this in an earlier reply, but I want to reiterate.

If your pet gets a DoT put on it, it will reagro over and over again regardless of Mes. Destroy these pets at all costs or ask for a target change.

[PhelanKA]

Sure, you can order your pet to attack all you want, its that one little mechanic that prevents the targetted Mes'd, Charmed, whatever NPC from being put on your hate list that everyone needs to learn about so they know that there is only one thing preventing their pet from attacking a mes'd mob, and a whole slew of other crap that will cause their pet to attack a mes'd mob anyway.

Btw, I know I mentioned this in an earlier reply, but I want to reiterate.

If your pet gets a DoT put on it, it will reagro over and over again regardless of Mes. Destroy these pets at all costs or ask for a target change.

Now this is some good advice. Thank you.

Along the same train of thought it's up to the pet classes themselves to remind their groups of this and to suggest killing caster/dotting mobs first at all costs. Mistakes happen, of course, but good communication goes a long way.

Also, I am not intending to rouse "fastboy" from his rage fuelled slumber but the whole "Follow or Guard" debate amounts to preference. I understand the benefit of keeping your pet on follow, but I'm situationally aware and don't see the need personally. I just prefer to know where my pet will go to after every fight. Sue me. Never had any complaints from group members (that I know of).