The P Word: A Public Service Announcement

[frefaln]

Today I'd like to share some thoughts on the dreaded "P" word. Don't get your hopes up, I'm referring to pickpocketing.

Some people might associate "pickpocketing" with a dastardly rogue who's hellbent on screwing everyone over. Perhaps they'll read my thoughts below and reconsider.

First off: yes. I pickpocket one out of every 6 or 7 mobs that my group is fighting. I also freely tell my group that I'm doing it if loot is discussed. However, I also loot maybe 1 out of every 30 corpses on the ground. Sure, occasionally I'll pickpocket a Gargoyle Eye or a gem that sells for a couple plat. I've earned it, just like any other member of the group vacuuming corpses before the death animation has even completed.

A few critical notes on pickpocketing:

* You can't pickpocket magic items. That excludes a lot.

* You can't pickpocket wielded items. All that fine steel you're looting and selling? Enjoy it, for I probably didn't get any of it.

* It doesn't always work, even if it's maxed. I can pickpocket a gargoyle three times and someone might still loot a Gargoyle Eye. Pickpocketing is not some magical shortcut to riches.

* If you're grouped with a rogue and you see "Stop, thief!" every other fight, and that rogue is also looting every corpse in sight, you've probably got a very greedy player in the ranks. That's not a rogue problem, that's an individual player problem.

Okay, so why the long post? The subject came up in a group I was in yesterday (it was a light-hearted discussion). One guy said, "Hey, I have no problem telling a rogue to F off if I find out he's pickpocketing!". And it made me wonder just how many people think inviting a rogue to their group equates to getting screwed on loot. Hardly. I stand by my 1/6 approach, for rogues are horrible at solo'ing and have no discernable skill that can be marketed. Therefore I keep pickpocketing maxed so when a zone is empty at 3 AM I might actually make a little plat. Even that doesn't come easily, for mobs clobber me all the way to the zoneline whenever an attempt fails. I have indeed earned whatever I've made from the dreaded "P" word.

Thank you and good day.

[azeth]

I was under the impression Pickpocketing provided an entirely seperate loot table available to the Rogue.

Meaning you're not pickpocketing loot that could drop, you're pickpocketing loot that could only be attained via pickpocketing. (note i dont mean different loot, just 2 different tables)

[frefaln]

I wish that were the case, I'd spam pickpocket on every mob 'til I had carpal tunnel. There's a reason for the "Stop, thief!" message on NPCs when pickpocket fails — it's a heads-up to anyone nearby that you're attempting to pull from its loot table. It's really a brilliant mechanism by the original Devs if you think about it; if nothing else it probably promotes some spirited discussion amongst players :)

I imagine there are rogues that mash PP on every mob and ease up only when the "thief!" message appears. Since I know I'm being fair to the group the message doesn't bother me at all.

[Straif]

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i5/Shogun710/haters-gonna-hate-eagle.jpg

Tell them to shut the fuck up...

[Shaun421]

I admit I pickpocket like mad on my Rogue. Initially it's because I was a nub and forgot that it really did take the loot from the same table, not a special pickpocket table like the other gentlemen inquired. Now I mostly just do it to get my skill up and stop.

One benefit I have noticed to a Rogue pickpocket spamming in a group is that he is now stuck with all of the silver/copper, while the casters get to pick up the other items like gems and runes and such, and the other strong guys get the weapons and armor. In the long run, the Rogue ends up with more pocket change and less loot, while doing the casters (and monks especially) a favor by keeping them from being bogged down by all the copper. Since the Rogue isn't looting items he's got plenty of weight to spare for the cash, the casters get to stay in the fight longer thus everyone gets to keep killing faster and longer, allowing potentially more loot to drop and more experience for everyone, and since people are just deleting copper to save weight, technically more money is being distributed amoung the group (how's that for an unecessarily long sentence). So I feel that sometimes a Rogue is doing the group a favor by spamming that pickpocket key if he doesn't mind making the run back from whereever he was fighting with his pants full of money like Shmee at the end of Hook.

So the next time you see a Rogue spamming that button, don't assume he's being greedy because it really doesn't make him any richer, unless he is pickpocketing AND looting, then slap that sumbitch.

[Kani]

I was under the impression Pickpocketing provided an entirely seperate loot table available to the Rogue.


The answer to this is "Yes and No."
Initially back in classic EQ, when a rogue used his/her pickpocket skill it came from the regular loot table. In other words if ORC0001 had 2gp 3sp as his total drop loot, and the rogue pp'ed 1gp 2sp , then whoever looted the corpse would get the remaining 1gp 1sp. Similar to xp penalties this was something that players eventually figured out. Thus began a period of people bitching about rogues, accusing them of stealing all the loot, even if they weren't. So we became scapegoats if the loot drop wasn't up to some people's standards.

Eventually, and I'm pretty sure it was before Kunark, SOE added the change that took picked items and coin from a seperate loot table. I tried to find the patch notes from back in the day, but couldn't. Currently on my rogue, my favorite EQ class, I usually only pp in groups on occasion, or I'll ask if it's cool as long I do a split. I'm really looking forward to them changing the shared loot table for pickpocketing as it is kind of frustrating. Especially when a second rogue joins the group and commences to pick every mob practically clean of coin and loot.

[Merrik]

A few critical notes on pickpocketing:

* You can't pickpocket magic items. That excludes a lot.



This is great and all in early levels where magical items rule the world. But when you get into higher level areas where gems start dropping, then there is an issue, seeing as gems (diamonds, blue diamonds...the items of value) are not magical and a rogue can pick pocket those all day long.

[Hasbinbad]

You gotsta PAY for leet deeps dawgs!

[Straif]

I know people have there own reservations about how loot is supposed to work but I always found one person being designated to "Master Loot" to be best. You keep Monks unburdened and everyone's attention is focused with one person taking inventory, then when someones gotta leave.. /split & distribute. Beware of the shady people who might /q with hours of loot!!

I see no issue with rogues PP'ing if they're honest enough to report to the group some serious lewts. All the other shit is kind of frivolous.

[Dantes]

I've never had a problem with pickpocketing. Cash drops off most mobs suck anyway. If that's your primary source of plat, you're doing it wrong.

[Gandite]

Kebbon take me off ignore so I can tell you how high I am.


I grouped with a necro in Paw who went on this huge rant about how rogues ruin the game for other players because of pickpocketing. Being a rogue on Live I naturally disagreed with her despite that rules for pickpocketing here are different from Live. Like Dantes said if you're depending on the cash made from grouping as your main source of income you are doing it incredibly wrong. She got even angrier when I explained how you could incorporate backstab, evade, and pickpocket all into one macro. She didn't understand that a rogue's lot in life is to make said life easier any way they can. Low hanging fruit etc etc.

[Icecometus]

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i5/Shogun710/haters-gonna-hate-eagle.jpg

Tell them to shut the fuck up...

this

[Hasbinbad]

I know people have there own reservations about how loot is supposed to work but I always found one person being designated to "Master Loot" to be best. You keep Monks unburdened and everyone's attention is focused with one person taking inventory, then when someones gotta leave.. /split & distribute. Beware of the shady people who might /q with hours of loot!!

I see no issue with rogues PP'ing if they're honest enough to report to the group some serious lewts. All the other shit is kind of frivolous.
This.

Rogues make the best ML's by far, since they naturally have ubar str, and can PP..

[Ripcord]

Takes an uber ass thief to steal someones eye right out of their head and not have them notice

[BeelzeBob]

Eventually, and I'm pretty sure it was before Kunark, SOE added the change that took picked items and coin from a seperate loot table.

Not even. If this change was ever made it was well after Luclin.

[Merrik]

Not even. If this change was ever made it was well after Luclin.

This change was definitely made at some point, I remember it being in effect at some point when i played my Rogue on live, which was during the Sullon Zek era, so luclin sounds like pretty good estimate as to the general time frame it went in.

Just to add, I have zero issues with rogue's Pick Pocketing, I do however have an issue with rogues being able to pick pocket high end gems from mobs that have them. God knows if I PPed something like that, I wouldn't tell a soul until I had full jewelry gear made out of it and had sold a ton of them.

[Kani]

Not even. If this change was ever made it was well after Luclin.

If so, I stand corrected. However I would love to see the patch notes from when this change went in, for my own piece of mind.

As a couple people in the thread mentioned, it really is a minor issue. A Rogue most likely isn't going to get rich pp'ing in a group. It's just that there are some people who like to make a mountain out of a molehill over everything. I think Straif put it best with the image and comment :D

[scecie]

Takes an uber ass thief to steal someones eye right out of their head and not have them notice

WORD

[astarothel]

I wouldn't care so much if it was cash only, but yeah. Gems, etc? Not cool.

If I see a rogue pping off mobs that can have valuable vendor trash, he can stop or I can leave the group, it's that simple. I don't care if it's 1 in 6 or 1 in 1000. I don't care if it's a class ability, your job in a group is to dps, not pad your pocketbook at the expense of rest of your group. You are a dps and can easily be replaced.

[scecie]

I wouldn't care so much if it was cash only, but yeah. Gems, etc? Not cool.

If I see a rogue pping off mobs that can have valuable vendor trash, he can stop or I can leave the group, it's that simple. I don't care if it's 1 in 6 or 1 in 1000. I don't care if it's a class ability, your job in a group is to dps, not pad your pocketbook at the expense of rest of your group. You are a dps and can easily be replaced.

I disagree. It is a class skill that is integrated into the game for a reason. It's not your job to define what a class can and cannot do, the game design does that. From a roleplay perspective you get a shifty eyed klepto in the group who can't help himself.

Of course, it's Norrath and you can pick who you group with one way or another.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

http://nowsourcing.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/bush_doing_it_wrong.jpg

[Tiggles]

I wouldn't care so much if it was cash only, but yeah. Gems, etc? Not cool.

If I see a rogue pping off mobs that can have valuable vendor trash, he can stop or I can leave the group, it's that simple. I don't care if it's 1 in 6 or 1 in 1000. I don't care if it's a class ability, your job in a group is to dps, not pad your pocketbook at the expense of rest of your group. You are a dps and can easily be replaced.

Then you should Pay the rogue plat to NOT use his ability like clerics charge plat to use their ability

[frefaln]

I wouldn't care so much if it was cash only, but yeah. Gems, etc? Not cool.

.... says the person who, at any time, can do a sweep of MM and Guk and make a fortune off rezzes.

[Phallax]

Then you should Pay the rogue plat to NOT use his ability like clerics charge plat to use their ability

Exactly, and as someone else stated, alot of rogues just incorporated it into thier BS macro hotkey anyway. Its part of the game deal with it.

[Paxton]

One guy said, "Hey, I have no problem telling a rogue to F off if I find out he's pickpocketing!". And it made me wonder just how many people think inviting a rogue to their group equates to getting screwed on loot.

Noone does that. If they do, you shouldn't be grouping with them, they're not worth the air we breathe.

[Kinamur1999]

I played a rogue on live forever basically and I didn't pp in groups.

why? because after 1 or 2 of those failed messages groups would boot you the fuck out back in the day. Rogues are good dps, just good, somehow they have gotten the idea in their head that a group needs them so badly they can just do whatever they want, no one cares if its a class ability you are stealing from the group. Stealing. Word it however you want to make it seem fair.