Lets Talk Em, Bard STAAAAAATS!

[gobbosnobbo]

So after consulting a few high level bards, I have completely different answers on what stats are good.

Some high level bards say that Dex/Cha don't effect your missed not percentage much and state that its better to simply stack Resists, HP, and AC.

Other high level bards swear by Dex/Char and says that not only does it improve their missed note rate, it also additionally supports your ability to dual wield, and helps enough with lul/charm to be noticeable. They also said AGI is important because it effects your defensive skills such as Riposte, Dodge, etc.

I was unaware that Dex/Agi had the additional effects on your defensive and dual wield stats. Is this information correct?

There obviously is a big gap in between truths here, so I've come to the forums to figure out what exactly the truth is. Help me out I'm buying gear right now.

[Robdukes]

It depends on how you plan on leveling. If you're only going to swarm kite then get the best instruments you can buy and don't worry so much about the armor pieces. If you plan on grouping or soloing with any tactic other than outrunning targets then read the p99 wiki bard creation guide. It tells you what kind of songs benefit from high charisma and why you should care about dexterity. Grab some 55hp rings and a few pieces of MR gear to swap in when needed. Other than that follow the wiki's advice. I started with no plat and worked my way up from banded to ending up with backpacks full of gear that I swap around depending on what role I'm filling in a group or what kind of soloing I'm doing. So you should be fine. As long as you don't buy a bunch of mana gear or something :D

[Colgate]

hp/resists/stamina

[Robdukes]

HP and resists yea...but stamina? Don't waste your plat. Or if you don't believe me go ahead and buy one of those stamina earrings just for fun and see just how few HP it gives you. Bards get terrible HP returns for Stamina.

[Estu]

A patch note some time ago confirmed that DEX and CHA affect the chance of missed notes. For my bard I just made recently, I got a full suit of Mystic Koada'dal armor because of the AC, DEX, and CHA. My plan is to kite more-or-less as long as possible, though I'm not against grouping once in a while. I hadn't ever really done it before, so I figured that not missing notes would be pretty important. Not sure how true that is, though. I guess if you're kiting you don't really need any gear other than instruments, although if you get hit and don't immediately die thanks to AC, that's nice too.

[skacat]

It's anecdotal but once my instrument/singing skills maxed on my bard on live I almost never missed notes, and I didn't have DEX or CHA anywhere near maxed. Also, missing a note is almost never critical and so rare at high levels I never thought about it.

Probably resists and HP are going to be the most important. I do believe CHA will affect your mezzing/charming success but you aren't doing that most of the time.

In my experience pretty much all bards keep a backpack or two of alternate equipment to switch between melee mode and survivor mode. Melee stuff just being as much +STR stuff as you can stack, and the survivor stuff being mostly HP/resist gear.

If you're kiting, you don't need any gear. But if you're insisting on gearing up, you probably just need HP/resists to help you escape the odd bad pull or wandering caster.

[Stinkum]

The most important things are AC, MR, and direct +HP (don't bother with STA, returns are terrible).

Pay attention to the weight of the armor you're buying. You don't want to be sitting at 85 weight with 88 Strength. It sucks.

Don't be one of those gay Bards that only kites. The Bard is the one class in the game where you can truly show off your skills and make yourself stand out in a group as a good player.. If you weren't planning on doing that, why even bother playing a Bard? When I used to play a Bard like 10 months ago, I admit that I was lame and kited to 50, and it was one of the most boring things I have done and I regret it. After I got to 50 I was so burned out that I just sold the character. EQ not a "race" and EQ doesn't suddenly become fun at 50. Enjoy the road to get there, and learn how to group as a fuckin Bard.

[Estu]

The most important things are AC, MR, and direct +HP (don't bother with STA, returns are terrible).

Pay attention to the weight of the armor you're buying. You don't want to be sitting at 85 weight with 88 Strength. It sucks.

Don't be one of those gay Bards that only kites. The Bard is the one class in the game where you can truly show off your skills and make yourself stand out in a group as a good player.. If you weren't planning on doing that, why even bother playing a Bard? When I used to play a Bard like 10 months ago, I admit that I was lame and kited to 50, and it was one of the most boring things I have done and I regret it. After I got to 50 I was so burned out that I just sold the character. EQ not a "race" and EQ doesn't suddenly become fun at 50. Enjoy the road to get there, and learn how to group as a fuckin Bard.

Personally, I'm finding kiting pretty exciting (I'm only level 8, though). It's very cool to just take down a huge group of monsters by myself and get a giant chunk of EXP at once. Yeah, grouping as a bard is more interesting and in some ways more challenging, I'm sure, but I already have other characters I play when I have the time to group (let's be honest, if you want to group you should have at least 2-3 hours free, so that it's worth it given the time it can take to find a group and get situated). Grouping's great but it's not the right thing for every bard in every situation.

[falkun]

resists > raw HP > everything else.

[Stinkum]

what about AC big falkun?

[astuce999]

Yay, a fun post to answer!

I keep 3 sets of gear. HP/AC (shield optional), pulling/CC (massive cha), and resists (raid).

Charisma is the 2nd most important factor when lulling, the first being your relative level to the mob. So if you're pulling mostly blues, dont really bother, but if going against tougher mobs, that extra charisma is going to be a life saver.

Charisma for charming is barely noticeable, same thing for mez, it's all about relative level.

Dexterity is the 3rd most important factor for missed notes, the first being your instrument skill, and the 2nd being the level of the song. Dexterity comes into play mostly when you're taking melee damage from the mob, it will become akin to a channeling skill for bards. On live it was rumored to affect your dual wield check, but I dont know if it was implemented on p99.

Agility on live was rumored to affect avoidance type skills like dodge and parry, as well as your avoidance AC, but no clue if it has been implemented on p99.

AC makes a difference but only in big numbers, and only on mobs lower level than you. When I put my tank gear on, I gain almost 200AC, and I can tank about 3 frogs in seb (non krup non ilis) before needing to stop to heal. Without that gear, even a light blue sometimes requires me to stop and mez/heal.

cheers!

Astuce

[Karafa]

Do any of you that say Cha is useful even play a high level bard? Cha has no effect on whether your lull, charm, or mez land or stick. Dex will effect song notes missing, but as stated earlier being 60 and having maxed instrument skills make this a moot point. HP > Resists > AC Dex/Sta/Str whatever.

[cs616]

I basically only use my bard to raid, but I go for resists, then HP, then STA, then Dex. Most of the damage a raiding bard is going to be taking will be from AEs, so reducing that is priority #1. HP and STA for obvious reasons. Dex because procing epic as early as possible will help with DPS, especially if in a melee heavy group. I can see the merits of AC in a group situation, but on a raid AC doesn't really do much for a bard.

[Faerie]

I remember this being a seriously heated discussion back in the day on live, and my information may be wrong (going from memory, waaay back when), but what most of you are saying seems wrong to me.

First, wasn't the general consensus among bards that instrument/singing skill level mattered absolutely not at all? I maxed all of mine for the sake of it, but remember that many bards never bothered to because the skillups didn't do anything, beyond the initial skill point. And it was thought that both dex and cha were factors in determining missed notes, though the exact math and importance of either were up for discussion.

Many bards argued that we should stack both dex and cha for this reason, though others (with whom I agreed) countered by saying that missed notes weren't a big deal anyway, because we didn't lose mana for it like casters, and they always happened at the very start of a song so their impact was always hugely minimal (lol); so long as you were fast on the recast.

Cha was also thought to affect the DURATION of charm (more likely for 27 charm to last close to 18 seconds; and 39 to last close to 1 min), but not initial resist rate or anything. Which made cha close to useless for bard charming, because when swarm kiting the charm would need to be broken with invis 90% of the time as it lost hp so quickly. And it has such a short duration anyway, even in pvp having it break really early was never a huge deal because of selo's and stuff.

Cha was also not a factor in determining initial mez resist; that being determined exclusively by NPC level, NPC level in relation to bard level, and MR of NPC. It may have been a factor in average mez duration (don't remember), but I never went for cha gear and never had issues keeping multiples mezzed. I always thought it was funny that equipping a flute did nothing for initial mez resists either, and just increased the amount of mr lost once it landed. The Pied Piper could have just sang, and used his swords to murder those kids. Guess modern bards are just better at multitasking.

I don't remember if it affected lull resists or not. As I never grouped with a monk until 55+, I did the majority of pulling for a bunch of my groups and didn't have tooo many issues (lull seems pretty unreliable here compared to my perhaps spotty memory, but here I'm lulling as a gnome cleric). Vaguely remember something about lull being effectively nerfed in Kunark by increased mr on NPCs, and then improved a ton in Luclin; didn't Thott make a huge whiny post about monks taking over as pullers when bards were originally best at it?

Bard gear always had plenty of cha and dex anyway. If you're epic, extra dex is a big boost for that proc. Also good for pvp procs.

My advice, as an oldschool bard:

Starting stats all sta, or maybe dex if you're big on those procs and down on yourself for small gains with sta. Maybe human bards would want to go dex, but who the hell makes a lame human when you could be elvish? With gear, go mr > other resists > hp > sta > dex > everything else

Stacking mr and other resists for pvp obviously (also raids), and sta before dex because dex is simple to get up as bard. I never felt a need for carrying around different sets of gear for tanking or whatever, because it seemed safer to always be as pvp ready as possible. And when taking on those tough solo mobs, less tankiness just meant longer fights with mez/regen.

[Calabee]

Do any of you that say Cha is useful even play a high level bard?

Played one here for 3 years, one on live for 3 years.

Cha has no effect on whether your lull, charm, or mez land or stick.

u 4 real? go try lulling high lvl shit with say 100 cha, then 150, then 175, you will see the difference.

Dex will effect song notes missing,

Wrong, confirmed by gm's / devs 2-3 years ago how it's BOTH dex and cha.

[Yibz]

Never buy CHA gear specifically to boost CHA. Once get planar, cultural, ragefire gear, you'll have more than enough for lull/mez. You just won't see a dramatic return and you'll wish you had HP gear anyway when you do manage a critical resist. Just focus on HP/STA to begin with then resist gear once you're raid level. I have maybe 6 free inventory slots free at a given time. The rest of my bags are filled with different gear that I change depending on the situation (pulling, tanking, resist encounter, DPS [lo]).

I agree that missed notes shouldn't really matter if you're quick - unless you're one of those shitty bards that hotkeys all their twists.

[Robdukes]

You guys with the missed notes don't matter. I have a feeling the reason you think this way is because it's been so long since you were a low level bard that missed notes constantly. Watch that guy's video on swarming on his level 20 something bard. He misses so much and it sure does look to be annoying him.

I agree missed notes do not matter in a swarm kiting situation, but in a bard playing his ass off to save his skin or his group from wiping? they really do. Hold 4 or 5 mobs in a mez and get 2 or 3 missed notes, your going to start a chain reaction of mobs breaking mez and beating on you.(Numbers not specific there, you get the point though) Every second counts for twisting.

[Yibz]

You guys with the missed notes don't matter. I have a feeling the reason you think this way is because it's been so long since you were a low level bard that missed notes constantly. Watch that guy's video on swarming on his level 20 something bard. He misses so much and it sure does look to be annoying him.

I agree missed notes do not matter in a swarm kiting situation, but in a bard playing his ass off to save his skin or his group from wiping? they really do. Hold 4 or 5 mobs in a mez and get 2 or 3 missed notes, your going to start a chain reaction of mobs breaking mez and beating on you.(Numbers not specific there, you get the point though) Every second counts for twisting.

Those are missed notes from low instrument skill level. Most group situations will see you using singing which is easily maxed through normal play. Instrument skills should be maxed too (afk for a couple hours playing a song of each instrument type). In either case, it's hardly worth building a gear set to avoid missed notes.

[Stinkum]

What about for a non-raiding Bard in XP groups? Is HP still > AC?

[Crawdad]

Played a raid-crazy bard from 99-04, just started barding again here recently.

Back in the day, my priorities for gear were:

Resists (Only for AE fights/Raids) > HP > Cha > Dex > Stam > All else.

Wear Plate and don't worry about AC, it'll be on all your gear anyways. In groups, unless you're tanking (usually a bad idea), HP always > AC. The damage you take in groups is going to be a few hits from the mobs you pulled to camp, from casters switching targets to nuke, or from you stealing aggro from your tank (lol). Whichever way it happens, AC isn't going to safe your butt as frequently as having a larger HP pool.

Flowing Thought would be right after HP... if we somehow saw Fading Memories on this server.

Stats I would do 10 Cha/10 Dex/5 Stam, but I like round numbers. Some people swear by starting points in Stam, I personally don't think the abysmal Hp returns on it are as helpful as less missed notes/resists while leveling. You want +HP on your items, not +Stam.

Instrument skills (Singing) definitely matter, and coupled with your latency(/luck) will determine if you're great or mediocre at twisting.

[Jeffari]

What about for a non-raiding Bard in XP groups? Is HP still > AC?
When do bards actually start to join exp groups? Is it like way later in the game like mid 50's? Or is it just for raiding? I mean, I've been playing project199 for a little over two years, I know that two years isn't that long compared to others, but I swear, I've never, and I really mean this, never have grouped in an exp group with a bard in it. I remember back in live how awesome it was when a bard joined the party, all the cool shit the bring to the table and all. I mean I can understand it, why sit through slow group exp when you can just like nearly ding in one swarm kite pull. I get that. Ah, I don't know, that bard song box, where the bard song effects go, haha I think I've seen bard effects in that box like twice or three times the whole time I've played, and one of those times was asking a bard who was traveling through the karanas if I could hitch a ride autofollow style. I'm not knocking the class or anyone who plays it, I dig the bard I just miss grouping with them. It really does seem like the bard is the most rarest class to join a group, well it seems that way to me anyway.

[Crawdad]

...Ah, I don't know, that bard song box, where the bard song effects go, haha I think I've seen bard effects in that box like twice or three times the whole time I've played, and one of those times was asking a bard who was traveling through the karanas...


Actually, bard buffs weren't given their own buff box until way after Velious, so you'll never notice any buffs in your "Songs" box. Might as well disable it.

About the soloing, its the same reason you seldom see Druids or Necros in groups. A majority of people who play those classes chose them because, well, why group when you don't have to? Sometimes its nice to group until you get your key soloing spells/abilities (SoW, a better DoT, etc) but afterwards its way less of a hassle to solo. Personally I can't imagine soloing 1-60 with my Bard, but I don't blame those who do... Except Low Hp Kiting, seems like cheese to me.

[Stinkum]

When do bards actually start to join exp groups? Is it like way later in the game like mid 50's? Or is it just for raiding? I mean, I've been playing project199 for a little over two years, I know that two years isn't that long compared to others, but I swear, I've never, and I really mean this, never have grouped in an exp group with a bard in it. I remember back in live how awesome it was when a bard joined the party, all the cool shit the bring to the table and all. I mean I can understand it, why sit through slow group exp when you can just like nearly ding in one swarm kite pull. I get that. Ah, I don't know, that bard song box, where the bard song effects go, haha I think I've seen bard effects in that box like twice or three times the whole time I've played, and one of those times was asking a bard who was traveling through the karanas if I could hitch a ride autofollow style. I'm not knocking the class or anyone who plays it, I dig the bard I just miss grouping with them. It really does seem like the bard is the most rarest class to join a group, well it seems that way to me anyway.

1. They AE kite to at least the high 40s or low 50s.
2. Then they get hit a wall in AE kiting and have to group for XP, but are terrible at their class because all they did for the last 51 levels is AE kite.
3. No guild will take them because they earn a reputation as a terrible Bard who can't pull for shit and only knows how to AE kite (easy as fuck to do, a chimp can do it).
4. Then they notice how slow XP is in groups compared to AE kiting, and ragequit and sell their character.

^ The above scenario describes 90% of Bards experiences on P99

[Legend]

I grouped and lvld my bard 99.9% in groups. From lvl 1-51

From crushbone all the way to Karnors.

I geared him as a primary tank. Mostly ac/hp/stam gear. I was able to tank all the way to soldungb. Holding aggro was no problem. I had a blast, 50+ i can't tank like i did with the same gear, the game has changed.

I was even able to peel aggro off all warriors till 45, and bad sk's. Never swarm kited, ae kited, or solo/fear/snare kited.

[zanderklocke]

I swore by dex/cha leveling up and I still do. I noticed doing seafuries a lot in high 40s/low 50s that if my cha was not above 150/160, my charm would not last full song duration.

When I got to be in the high 50s, cha seemed to be less important so I swapped in pure hp rings/earrings. Dex still seems important to me.

Now, at level 60, I try to go for dex, pure hp, and some MR (assuming it doesn't destroy my other stats...always keep full MR in bags for raids) in regular situations. Honestly though, as a bard you eventually should have multiple sets of gear. If I'm in Seb, I put on resist jewelry, but in KC, I use more hp jewelry.

I basically have a regular equipment set (dex, hp, AC, Str, some sta), a MR gear set, and a cha set (this is used less frequently since high 50s).

If anything, I would think the biggest flaw as a bard would be thinking one set of gear will cover you for all situations. It all depends on what you are doing. I mean shit, you can level naked to 50 with a horn a drum if you really want to. If you look at my Magelo page, everything I have listed there I have for one reason or another.

[Karafa]

Played one here for 3 years, one on live for 3 years.



u 4 real? go try lulling high lvl shit with say 100 cha, then 150, then 175, you will see the difference.



Wrong, confirmed by gm's / devs 2-3 years ago how it's BOTH dex and cha.

Ridiculous post from a sub-par player. Search Uthgaards posts, CHA has nothing to do with missed notes. I play my 60 bard (Mythoxxus) and I have absolutely no problem lulling mobs in Hate, Seb, HS, or Chardok with the minimal amounts of charisma that my gear gives me. I have not had a critical lull resist on anything blue since being 60, and I miss a note once in a blue moon. Rocking 2400 hp unbuffed, 950 ac, 155 dex 152 stam.

I really don't understand why nearly 15 year old mechanics are still hard for some stubborn individuals to grasp though, but whatever floats your boat!

[Estu]

Ridiculous post from a sub-par player. Search Uthgaards posts, CHA has nothing to do with missed notes. I play my 60 bard (Mythoxxus) and I have absolutely no problem lulling mobs in Hate, Seb, HS, or Chardok with the minimal amounts of charisma that my gear gives me. I have not had a critical lull resist on anything blue since being 60, and I miss a note once in a blue moon. Rocking 2400 hp unbuffed, 950 ac, 155 dex 152 stam.

I really don't understand why nearly 15 year old mechanics are still hard for some stubborn individuals to grasp though, but whatever floats your boat!

I'm pretty sure there was a recent patch here that made DEX and CHA both affect the chance to miss notes. Maybe I'm misremembering, though.

[Zyn]

I was under the impression that it was only and always DEX

[Tecmos Deception]

I play my 60 bard (Mythoxxus) and I have absolutely no problem lulling mobs in Hate, Seb, HS, or Chardok with the minimal amounts of charisma that my gear gives me. I have not had a critical lull resist on anything blue since being 60

I know that each class that has lulls works a bit differently, but I can't help but think that you either are lying or that you don't do much lulling.

[falkun]

I have a mediocre 142ish CHA in my normal gear set up, and I don't resist too many lulls when grouping (therefore killing blues). I'm convinced bard lull is less dependent upon CHA than the enchanter/cleric/paladin line of lull/soothe/calm, and that's with a L39PAL who often pulls for his group as my primary alt.

[t0lkien]

I've always gone Resists -> HP -> Sta -> Cha -> Dex -> Str -> at the endgame. That seemed to pretty much be the consensus with top end Bards that I could gather. The point was always to stay alive, and Resists and raw HP and any more you could get from Stamina were always so far and above anything else that it didn't matter. Stacking any stat at the expense of HP/Sta was just silly. On p99 which is not exactly the same as live, who knows.

However:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6733

[SamwiseRed]

ye resists and hp are king, anything else is just gravy

if you have epic or in a fight where resists arent important and you are not wielding drum then haste is up there as well.

[Calabee]

Ridiculous post from a sub-par player. Search Uthgaards posts, CHA has nothing to do with missed notes. I play my 60 bard (Mythoxxus) and I have absolutely no problem lulling mobs in Hate, Seb, HS, or Chardok with the minimal amounts of charisma that my gear gives me. I have not had a critical lull resist on anything blue since being 60, and I miss a note once in a blue moon. Rocking 2400 hp unbuffed, 950 ac, 155 dex 152 stam.

I really don't understand why nearly 15 year old mechanics are still hard for some stubborn individuals to grasp though, but whatever floats your boat!

hahaha sub-par player, u for real dog? go RMT and scam some more

Ur fuckig stupid, miss a notes every blue moon, i will keep logs... i have missed notes an average of 5 times A FIGHT (1 mob)with over 200 dex / cha
No crit lull resist... good god, ur really clueless arent you?

i will look thru old posts if needed, but clearly remmeber dev's / gm's stating it was both dex and cha, and i also played a bard on live for 3-4 years (and that's how i remembered it as well)... here 2-3.. sub-par player rofl, get bent newb.. you didnt even lvl ur bard, u scammed people out of him