Duping

[Rogean]

In an effort to validate, and if confirmed, fix, the duping that may be happening during server lag, I would ask that anyone affected by this go through the following steps.

1. Relog all characters involved, and then do a tally/inventory on items you think may have been duped. Be absolutely sure that your accurate with the numbers of items and plat you had before and after, on each character.
2. If you are positive that something extra was generated, make a post in the Petition Forum (http://www.project1999.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=25). The title of this thread should be "[Dupe] Information". Include as much information as humanly possible. Including, what you had before and after, the EXACT step by step procedure you did, any oddities, disconnections, relogs, what items were in what locations (Cursor, Inventory, Bag (Number and Slot)), etc. EVERYTHING. Include date and time with every step.

Thanks.

[khanable]

sticky this!

lock this!

Quick quick before the window lickers get to it!

[lecompte]

So we should try different things to dupe during the lag and report?

[quido]

Thanks for the proactive effort.

[khanable]

Thanks for the proactive effort.

[Visual]

http://l.yimg.com/ao/i/life/img/girlfriend/justinbieber-proactiv_header_910.jpg

[Systolic]

Check IRC please Rogean

[Haynar]

If you have information, make sure to post something in the petition forum. I am also back to investigate the issue, so that is the best way to make information available to all the dev's simultaneously.

Thanks,

Haynar

[Sarius]

Thanks for taking the time to post this Rogean! Hopefully the community can get this figured out soon.

Just so that people do get any bright ideas, can you make clear the repercussions against unreported duping?

If there is indeed a dupe, what will happen to duped items already in circulation?

[citizen1080]

Thanks sir =)

[Joroz]

If there is indeed a dupe, what will happen to duped items already in circulation?

Delete.

[taysk8]

Once they figure this one out, I'm sure database forensics will ensue and shit will be un-duped. Y'all remember the stack item plat dupe bs a couple years back.

[Visual]

I don't see how they will reverse all of the trades that have taken place. As time goes on, the web becomes more and more entangled.

Only way is to do a rollback or delete the items which would cause too much chaos. I don't want to speak on the staff's behalf but i'd expect the duping to continue and all of the items to be in full circulation.

[Bazia]

Wipe it clean

[webrunner5]

Wipe it clean

You can't wipe it clean. All the Cheaters, Dupers, RMT'ers, KS'ers, Top Guilds, DDos'ers will be back in droves in 2 weeks. Total waste of time. :(

[Nuggie]

by wipe it clean he means the whole server. fresh from the start.. I think.

[xCry0x]

by wipe it clean he means the whole server. fresh from the start.. I think.

Which only works if you fix the problem first..

[Wovenspirit]

Well if this is actually happening, the ones who are DDoS'ing sure as hell know all the answers we are looking for.

[xCry0x]

Well if this is actually happening, the ones who are DDoS'ing sure as hell know all the answers we are looking for.

It also coincidentally seems to have stopped tonight so far.

[Splorf22]

Have you looked at the Amulets of Necropotence? Tiggles actually has a good point: there are a lot for sale. All you'd have to do is search for ones that were created recently.

[Hawala]

Wipe it clean

[quido]

By default that sort of information isn't stored, and it wouldn't be immediately easy to implement such a feature (not to say it couldn't be done without too much effort). There's a table for items that stores all the stats and such for each item; each item has an ID number. It is through this ID number that a character is connected to the item(s).

[Splorf22]

Why can't they get some sort of a history:

Jeremy looted AON from Cazic Thule
Jeremy traded AON to Loraen
Loraen traded AON to Halmir

It seems like just looking at this even if you couldn't figure out how the dupe was working at least you would know WHO was doing it, just by looking at who profited from the creation of the item.

[Stinkum]

Wipe it clean

[Systolic]

Why can't they get some sort of a history:

Jeremy looted AON from Cazic Thule
Jeremy traded AON to Loraen
Loraen traded AON to Halmir

It seems like just looking at this even if you couldn't figure out how the dupe was working at least you would know WHO was doing it, just by looking at who profited from the creation of the item.

Mule accounts, shared accounts, sold accounts.

Its almost impossible to ever know who owns an item

[koros]

Characters are very likely linked to an item ID, and not an individual instance of an item. This could be altered so that every instance of an item generates a unique ID, that has a created on/looted by/transferred to history table stored somewhere in the database.

[quido]

I suppose they could look back through an item's entire history, but some of the AONs and such will be from before their logs. Furthermore, I've traded my AON among my characters like a million times, so it's just more to pick through.

[Splorf22]

Characters are very likely linked to an item ID, and not an individual instance of an item. This could be altered so that every instance of an item generates a unique ID, that has a created on/looted by/transferred to history table stored somewhere in the database.

Why would this matter? What matters is that you have trade logs and loot logs. And dupes should fuck with that somehow.

[xCry0x]

Why would this matter? What matters is that you have trade logs and loot logs. And dupes should fuck with that somehow.

The problem is what do you go after? the duped item or the plat?

The plat is the real problem because it goes into RMT'ers hand.. if there are 30 AoN on the server instead of 20 big deal.

You delete the duped item and the RMTer still has the plat, the "legit" player gets screwed.

[quido]

The idea is to reverse the trade, then delete the dupe.

[quido]

lol ya got me

[renordw]

Wipe it clean

[Splorf22]

Really the idea is just to figure out WHO got the duped AON and ban the fuck out of them and anything else their IP address touched

[Mesenkomaha]

Wipe it clean

Someone with a name and server cred who wants this should create a topic/poll. Anyone interested in the results?

[xCry0x]

Someone with a name and server cred who wants this should create a topic/poll. Anyone interested in the results?

Kind of like the one that was posted 2 weeks ago?

Wiping the server is stupid.

Fix the problem, finish velious, release a new server and follow the time line, let this one die off naturally.

[Mesenkomaha]

Kind of like the one that was posted 2 weeks ago?

Wiping the server is stupid.

Fix the problem, finish velious, release a new server and follow the time line, let this one die off naturally.

Being unable to play due to lag is stupid. Dying because of lag every night is stupid. A ruined economy due to RMT is stupid. Trading accounts for plat/cash is stupid.

A fresh server is anything but stupid.

[xCry0x]

it is stupid from the perspective of the person running the server.

You wipe the server months before the release everyone has been waiting for.. people find something else to play and say they will come back in x months.. then they dont.

You let this server keep going as is.. find more massive exploits like this.. then when velious is close to ready you can re-release and everyone is excited all over but still addicted to the server.

[Splorf22]

No, wiping the server is in fact stupid. Who wants to play on a server where the staff will annihilate your character?

And its not like the lag would go away anyway. A fresh server would just mean a higher fraction of items would be duped.

[koros]

They're not going to wipe the damn server. Why is that hard to understand? Drop it, and wait/hope they release a fresh one after this one has been fine tuned to their liking.

[Clark]

Jeremy admitted trading aon between his own toons via illegal 2 boxing he prolly even did it during a server crash and duped it!!!!!!

lol

[xCry0x]

I am also going to throw this out there.

Someone on the other thread in RnF that tiggles started stated that he did a trade involving an item & 75 pp which essentially got duped. After the lag both he and the guy he traded with had the item and the plat... key part is they both had the plat.

If the dupe works that way why the hell would the dupers create multiple items of high value just to sell them for plat to RMT the plat? they would just take the 500k, dupe that 10 times and be done with it.

Couldn't it also be possible that the influx in AoN for sale is simply from ex IB players coming back after possibly liquidating their accounts aside from certain items that would maintain/grow in value (AoN).. and now are selling said item in order to get going again (buy fungi + cof + epic etc)?

Aside from an RMT side tiggles knows about, do we have any proof that there are actually more in circulation and not simply one guy buying one one week, realizing the clicky effect is not worth 500k, then selling it the next week making it look like 2 just went for sale?

[Sarius]

I am also going to throw this out there.

Someone on the other thread in RnF that tiggles started stated that he did a trade involving an item & 75 pp which essentially got duped. After the lag both he and the guy he traded with had the item and the plat... key part is they both had the plat.

If the dupe works that way why the hell would the dupers create multiple items of high value just to sell them for plat to RMT the plat? they would just take the 500k, dupe that 10 times and be done with it.

Couldn't it also be possible that the influx in AoN for sale is simply from ex IB players coming back after possibly liquidating their accounts aside from certain items that would maintain/grow in value (AoN).. and now are selling said item in order to get going again (buy fungi + cof + epic etc)?

Aside from an RMT side tiggles knows about, do we have any proof that there are actually more in circulation and not simply one guy buying one one week, realizing the clicky effect is not worth 500k, then selling it the next week making it look like 2 just went for sale?

I don't think that this is likely, especially since one seller with a brand new forum account was called out and did not bother to defend his sale or continue trying to sell it.

[Kender]

if the item ID is duped as well it should be a simple query to filter out all unique item id's and be left with multiples...


then delete ALL of them. not just the dupe, but the original too.


p.s. this assumes every single item has a uniquie ID

[Kender]

anyone that loses money in this deal might then be able to petition their details, when they bought the duped item and for how much, and maybe the money trail could lead to the dupers or RMT'ers

[quido]

p.s. this assumes every single item has a uniquie ID

It doesn't. Each TYPE of item has a unique ID.

[t0lkien]

It doesn't. Each TYPE of item has a unique ID.

EQ was designed in a more innocent time :(

[Frieza_Prexus]

EQ was designed in a more innocent time :(

Not as clumsy or random as a modern MMO; an elegant code for a more civilized age.

[Joroz]

Project 1999 is a lab... the players are just guinea pigs. It doesn't matter if they delete the dupes or leave them in as long as they still have guinea pigs in the lab. They don't care about your feelings if you bought something and they delete it because it shouldn't exist, they don't care about players in general... the only thing that matters much to this project is it gets the game as accurate as possible... We get a good benefit though, that's being able to play on the server they put their hard work into... don't count on it getting wiped when people are still willing to sign up and play.

[Stinkum]

naelc ti epiW

[Yardcore]

Just to put it out there, I saw a high number of people trying to sell prenerf "Runed Fighters Staff".

I hardly saw people trying to sell them, maybe like once every 2 or 3 months, but recently, in the pass week or 2, I saw people with different names trying to sell them.

[xCry0x]

I don't think that this is likely, especially since one seller with a brand new forum account was called out and did not bother to defend his sale or continue trying to sell it.

I really love this forum sometimes. I can throw out a completely plausible idea and someone always lets me know how what I throw out there is unlikely because of equally unfounded reason x, y, z.

How is it more likely that people are duping items than it is likely that people are simply re-selling shit? That is the whole appeal to ec trading, you buy an item and try to flip it. Who knows why someone would want to do it anon, hell, maybe they forgot their forum username/pw and just created a new account?

Back to the topic at hand though.. the guy in the other thread said he duped items by mistake which resulted in both item & plat getting duped.

Explain why anyone would continue to dupe items vs just duping plat when duped plat isn't trackable? (one of the admin/gms/devs said this in a tiggles interview iirc)

[Widan]

Maybe the person duping items didn't know that plat could be duped using the same method...until that stupid person posted his story instead of contacting staff.


How is it more likely that people are duping items than it is likely that people are simply re-selling shit? That is the whole appeal to ec trading, you buy an item and try to flip it. Who knows why someone would want to do it anon, hell, maybe they forgot their forum username/pw and just created a new account?


Also you can just go to http://ahungry.com/eqauctions/ and check trends to see what there has been an influx of. And this is only what has been seen in EC, so you can add some from the forums on there too.

Edit:

[1 days ago] Tallahassee auctions, '(WTS) Amulet of Necropotence , Master Wu's Trance Stick.'
[2 days ago] Tallahassee auctions, '(WTS) Amulet of Necropotence , Crimson Robe of Alendine.'
[3 days ago] Spellvendor auctions, 'wtt Amulet of Necropotence seeking 58+bard epic prefer.'
[3 days ago] Spellvendor auctions, 'WTTAmulet of Necropotence for, UBER account ... prefer bard.'
[1 weeks ago] Vazex auctions, '(WTS) Sebilite Scale Cap1k/Silken Whip of Ensnaring750p/Diamond2k/Black Sapphire2.7k/Lamentation5k/Amulet of Necropotence500k/Spell: Banishment of Shadows5k/.'
[1 weeks ago] Vazex auctions, '(WTS) Sebilite Scale Cap1k/Silken Whip of Ensnaring750p/Diamond2k/Black Sapphire2.7k/Lamentation5k/Spell: Banishment of Shadows5k/Amulet of Necropotence 500k/Spell: Splurt450p/.'
[2 weeks ago] Nuvar auctions, '(WTS) Amulet of Necropotence.'
[4 weeks ago] Cinn auctions, 'Runed Fighters Staff , Amulet of Necropotence .'
[5 weeks ago] Solkunar auctions, 'Amulet of Necropotence, Cobalt Bracer, Fingerbone Hoop, Lamentation.'
[5 weeks ago] Ogrimso auctions, '(WTS) Amulet of Necropotence 500K.'
[5 weeks ago] Ogrimso auctions, '(WTS) Amulet of Necropotence.'
[5 weeks ago] Solkunar auctions, 'Amulet of Necropotence, Cobalt Bracer.'
[5 weeks ago] Cinn auctions, 'Amulet of Necropotence, Runed Fighters Staff.'
[6 weeks ago] Cinn auctions, 'Amulet of Necropotence.'
[40 weeks ago] Kiphi auctions, '(WTS) Obulus Death Shroud , Prayer Shawl , Amulet of Necropotence (WTS).'
[43 weeks ago] Fratii auctions, '(WTS) , Rod of Annihilation, Amulet of Necropotence , (WTS) .'
[44 weeks ago] Rikezib auctions, '(WTS) Amulet of Necropotence, Cobalt Breastplate, Shield of Rainbow Hues .'
[44 weeks ago] Rikezib auctions, '(WTS) Amulet of Necropotence, Cobalt Breastplate, Shield of Rainbow Hues .'
[44 weeks ago] Rikezib auctions, '(WTS) Amulet of NecropotenceAmulet of Necropotence
[45 weeks ago] Kengu auctions, '(WTS) , Amulet of Necropotence , Rod of Annihilation Rod of Annihilation
[45 weeks ago] Azerel auctions, '(WTS) Amulet of Necropotence, (WTB) Donals Breastplate
[71 weeks ago] Joyous auctions, '(WTS) Blood Point, Adamantite Club, Amulet of Necropotence,Mask of Obtenebration,Tranquil Staff,Sebilite
[73 weeks ago] Tenda auctions, '(WTS) Amulet of Necropotence , Thex Dagger , Tobrin's Mystical Eyepatch , Manastone , Cloak of Flames , Cobalt


That's 7 different char's selling AoN's in EC over the past 6 weeks, compared with 7 in the previous year and a half. Yes, this website does not have all the data since it's only active when someone is uploading their logs, but it's pretty good at spotting inconsistencies with items.

edit: before anyone points it out, there's a bit of a gap in data from 23 weeks ago - 39 weeks ago I believe, but you can compare the rest

[Sithel1988]

i agree, wipe clean

[xCry0x]

Maybe the person duping items didn't know that plat could be duped using the same method...until that stupid person posted his story instead of contacting staff.



Also you can just go to http://ahungry.com/eqauctions/ and check trends to see what there has been an influx of.

I think that is a stretch that the person who figured out how to dupe items overlooked trying to dupe plat if in the end plat is all they really wanted =P

[citizen1080]

1. Find and fix the dupe
2. Server ~3 week rollback
3. 3x Xp for ~3 weeks
4. Profit

Yes, it would suck for those who put in a ton of time lvling during the ddos. But I think the majority of us have not gotten much accomplished during the last few weeks.

In fact it drove many extra people to EC to trade since thats all they could do safely, which made the trading of duped items that much worse.

On the flip side if the dupe is fix and ddos gone having a 2x/3x xp period would put most of us well ahead of where we were as we could focus on lvling during the period for better gains.

The only issue major issue i see right off the bat would be account trades would be an issue. The plat x traded to y for an account rolls back...but the account info does not. So anyone who bought an account during the roll back period got it for free and those who sold are screwed.

But...tracking these few sales down and making it right would be a lot less work for the staff than chasing down duped items traded 3-4 times each through the logs.

Anyways...just an idea other than wipe it clean...wipe it kinda clean!

[xCry0x]

In fact it drove many extra people to EC to trade since thats all they could do safely, which made the trading of duped items that much worse.



Which could also explain the influx of high end items being traded around =P

I honestly think people underestimate the novelty-ness of an AoN... I had one on live and I sold it after a couple of weeks because other shit is more worthwhile.

It is awesome until someone is selling a Donal's bp and will take the AoN as trade, ch clicky > skeleton clicky =P. Then all of a sudden the DOnal's bp vendor is selling AoN and you get a cycle of that item showing up over and over again.

[Widan]

One more long post of EC logs from that site. Keeping in mind there is that gap of data I mentioned from 23 weeks ago - 39 weeks ago, I think we can see the duping most likely started 5-6 weeks ago, or at least that's when the dupers wanted to start unloading.

Just look at the extreme price drop and influx of thex daggers here (I deleted the WTB''s and price checks from the data)


[1 days ago] Sweet auctions, '(WTS) Spell: Sunstrike , Thex Dagger, PST.'
[1 days ago] Bob auctions, '(WTS) Thex Dagger , Oggok Cleaver , Incarnadine Breastplate , Sarnak Warhammer , Rubicite set , Tolapumj's Robe , Book of Obulus , Golden Chitin Bracer , .'
[1 days ago] Sweet auctions, '(WTS) Thex Dagger , Spell: Sunstrike , Spell: Flaming Sword of Xuzl , , PST.'
[2 days ago] Gannacus auctions, '(WTS) Thex Dagger, Spell: Minion of Shadows, Spell: Naltron's Mark, .'
[3 days ago] Waterlilly auctions, '(WTS) Thex Dagger 90k, PST.'
[3 days ago] Sweet auctions, '(WTS) Thex Dagger , Spell: Sunstrike, PST.'
[3 days ago] Gannacus auctions, '(WTS) Thex Dagger, Spell: Minion of Shadows, Spell: Naltron's Mark, Stone of Morid.'
[1 weeks ago] Bob auctions, '(WTS) Thex Dagger , Truncheon of Doom , Oggok Cleaver , Rubicite Set , Incarnadine Breastplate , Sarnak Warhammer , .'
[3 weeks ago] Veloci auctions, '(WTS) { Rod of Annihilation } 310k ,{ Cloak of Flames } 135k, { Thex Dagger } 110k, { Hierophant's Cloak } 45k (WTS).'
[3 weeks ago] Veloci auctions, '(WTS) { Rod of Annihilation },{ Cloak of Flames }, { Thex Dagger }, { Hierophant's Cloak } (WTS).'
[3 weeks ago] Veloci auctions, '(WTS) { Rod of Annihilation },{ Cloak of Flames }, { Thex Dagger }, { Hierophant's Cloak }.'
[3 weeks ago] Supremacy auctions, '(WTS) Rod of Annihilation 310k, Thex Dagger 110k.'
[4 weeks ago] Hueylewis auctions, '(WTS)/WTT Thex Dagger 150k, OBO // full visible set (1 bracer) of Rubicite armor 100k, OBO, , PST!.'
[4 weeks ago] Hueylewis auctions, '(WTS)/WTT Thex Dagger 150k, OBO // full visible set (1 bracer) of Rubicite Breastplate 100k, OBO, , PST!.'
[4 weeks ago] Aalpha auctions, '(WTS) Thex Dagger 200k litmited time offer.'
[5 weeks ago] Brainstorm auctions, '(WTS) << Thex Dagger >> 150k obo.'
[5 weeks ago] Brainstorm auctions, '(WTS) Golden Efreeti Boots 6k // Fishbone Earring 4k // << Thex Dagger 150k >>.'
[42 weeks ago] Vorg auctions, '(WTS) Thex Dagger.'
[42 weeks ago] Vorg auctions, '(WTS) Mithril Breastplate, Thex Dagger.'
[42 weeks ago] Vorg auctions, '(WTS) Mithril Breastplate, Crown of King Tranix, Thex Dagger.'
[43 weeks ago] Tridred auctions, '(WTS) Crown of King Trannix , Thex Dagger..'
[43 weeks ago] Tridred auctions, '(WTS) Crown of King Tranix 15K, Thex Dagger 150K.'
[43 weeks ago] Tridred auctions, '(WTS) Crown of King Tranix 15K Thex Dagger 150K.'
[45 weeks ago] Baxter auctions, '(WTS) blue diamond 3k, black sapphire 2500, sarnak warhammer 5k, tolapumj robe 3k, staff of the undead legions 1k, golden efreeti boots 4500. (WTB) thex dagger, sheild of the immaculate.'
[50 weeks ago] Cees auctions, '(WTS) Thex Dagger 130k , Dragon Hero Bracer 95k , Tobrin's Eyepatch 65k , Green Dragon Shield 45k , Red Dragon Armor 30k , Gaunts of Fiery Might 30k , Totem of Wizened Spirits 30k.'
[51 weeks ago] Migooth auctions, '(WTS) , Thex Dagger 150k, Manastone 110k, Dragon Hero Bracer 100k, Dawn, Fire, Morning Star of Light 40k, Kavruul`s Mystic Pouch 15k.'
[52 weeks ago] Niah auctions, '(WTS) Puppet Strings / Thex Dagger / Co, F /, BCG / No, S / Green Dragon Shield / Red Dragon Armor / White Dragon Cloak / Dawnfire / Gaunts of Fiery Might / Dragon Hero Bracer / Tobrin's Eyepatch / Totem of Wizened Spirits / T-Staff / Iksar Regen, BP / Fingerbone Hoop / Selo's Drums /, FBSS /, IGS /, GEBs / Idol of Thorned.'
[52 weeks ago] Niah auctions, '(WTS) Puppet Strings / Thex Dagger / Co, F /, BCG / No, S / Green Dragon Shield / Red Dragon Armor / White Dragon Cloak / Dawnfire / Gaunts of Fiery Might / Dragon Hero Bracer / Tobrin's Eyepatch / Totem of Wizened Spirits / T-Staff / Iksar Regen, BP / Fingerbone Hoop / Selo's Drums /, FBSS /, IGS /, GEBs / Idol of Thorned.'
[52 weeks ago] Dontaze auctions, '(WTS) , Thex Dagger 150k, Goblin Gazughi Ring 10k, Bracer of the Hidden 6k.'
[52 weeks ago] Dontaze auctions, '(WTS) , Thex Dagger 150k, Necklace of Superiority 35k, Goblin Gazughi Ring 10k, Bracer of the Hidden 6k, Shrunken Goblin Skull Earring 2k.'
[52 weeks ago] Dontaze auctions, '(WTS) , Thex Dagger 150k, Necklace of Superiority 35k, Goblin Gazughi Ring 10k, Djarns Amethyst Ring 10k, Bracer of the Hidden 6k, Shrunken Goblin Skull Earring Shrunken Goblin Skull Earring
[54 weeks ago] Zathrus auctions, '(WTS) Thex Dagger 175k, Fungus Covered Scale Tunic 70k.'
[72 weeks ago] Nizzarr auctions, '(WTS) Thex dagger, pm with offer.'
[73 weeks ago] Tenda auctions, '(WTS) Amulet of Necropotence , Thex Dagger , Tobrin's Mystical Eyepatch , Manastone , Cloak of Flames , Cobalt Helm.'


If you check high end items a lot of them have similar patterns to this. The price drop indicates that most of them are probably unique daggers and not the same one being passed around or auctioned from someones many alts.

[Sarius]

I really love this forum sometimes. I can throw out a completely plausible idea and someone always lets me know how what I throw out there is unlikely because of equally unfounded reason x, y, z.

How is it more likely that people are duping items than it is likely that people are simply re-selling shit? That is the whole appeal to ec trading, you buy an item and try to flip it. Who knows why someone would want to do it anon, hell, maybe they forgot their forum username/pw and just created a new account?

Back to the topic at hand though.. the guy in the other thread said he duped items by mistake which resulted in both item & plat getting duped.

Explain why anyone would continue to dupe items vs just duping plat when duped plat isn't trackable? (one of the admin/gms/devs said this in a tiggles interview iirc)

Perhaps they are duping both. In the other thread the PP and the headband were duped. Maybe the hypothetical scumbag is trading 500K for an AoN and duping both in the process.

[citizen1080]

One more long post of EC logs from that site. Keeping in mind there is that gap of data I mentioned from 23 weeks ago - 39 weeks ago, I think we can see the duping most likely started 5-6 weeks ago, or at least that's when the dupers wanted to start unloading.

Just look at the extreme price drop and influx of thex daggers here (I deleted the WTB''s and price checks from the data)



If you check high end items a lot of them have similar patterns to this. The price drop indicates that most of them are probably unique daggers and not the same one being passed around or auctioned from someones many alts.

Thex dagger may be a poor item to gauge this by. I have a client who recently came back to game, well before the ddos, who had a stockpile of daggers. He was one of the first 50's on the server and was in a position to farm them.

I sold 4-5 of these for him over a ~3 week span.

So part of the influx on these was from him/me and legit.

However, the ones ive been seeing sold currently are not from anyone I sold to as far as i know.

Also I do agree with Halmir, if the duping is purely for RMT purposes they would just dupe plat and if they did dupe high end items they would just want to keep those stockpiled to sell to people for cash, not put them out on the market were young detectives can start connecting dots.

[Widan]

It's possible, though CRoA's also follow this same exact pattern of becoming extremely common 5-6 weeks ago. I haven't looked at any others.

Also red flags go up when a character has a lot of platinum, that's how stabbyjoe got caught, from the platinum, not the 50 500k items he stole or whatever, so maybe they thought it would be safer. I mean it's all just speculation now.

[citizen1080]

I know the staff can do a query to see whom has the most plat. They could get a list of the top 20 and dig into their logs for last 3 weeks...if large amounts just appeared..well there ya go.

Edit: i didnt real that right first time...yea that would make sense if they are duping items to avoid ^

[Nuggie]

Not as clumsy or random as a modern MMO; an elegant code for a more civilized age.

I see what you did there. and I liked it!

[fuark]

Not as clumsy or random as a modern MMO; an elegant code for a more civilized age.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9ybmcNuA21qbecpdo1_500.gif

[Tiggles]

Thex dagger may be a poor item to gauge this by. I have a client who recently came back to game, well before the ddos, who had a stockpile of daggers. He was one of the first 50's on the server and was in a position to farm them.

I sold 4-5 of these for him over a ~3 week span.

So part of the influx on these was from him/me and legit.

However, the ones ive been seeing sold currently are not from anyone I sold to as far as i know.

Also I do agree with Halmir, if the duping is purely for RMT purposes they would just dupe plat and if they did dupe high end items they would just want to keep those stockpiled to sell to people for cash, not put them out on the market were young detectives can start connecting dots.

I think AoNs are being duped to them not being LORE so they can be easily stored.

I know manastones are not Lore have they increased in frequency being sold?

[Keykey]

Also I do agree with Halmir, if the duping is purely for RMT purposes they would just dupe plat and if they did dupe high end items they would just want to keep those stockpiled to sell to people for cash, not put them out on the market were young detectives can start connecting dots.

I believe new players buy plat. They like being able to buy the items they want in EC. That is part of the "fun".

Sellers need both plat to sell, and then items for the people to buy. They sell the items for the plat they just sold. Sell plat again...repeat.

Just my theory.

[enr4ged]

I know the staff can do a query to see whom has the most plat. They could get a list of the top 20 and dig into their logs for last 3 weeks...if large amounts just appeared..well there ya go.

Edit: i didnt real that right first time...yea that would make sense if they are duping items to avoid ^

Except doing searches like that are time consuming and the staff is volunteer.

But give me, or any other knowledgeable database users read access to a backup copy of the database and I'm sure we would gladly help find the source of all the duping. I'm not really sure why this isn't an option unless there's records there they don't want us to see.

[Iwill]

[QUOTE=xCry0x;1041131]I am also going to throw this out there.


Couldn't it also be possible that the influx in AoN for sale is simply from ex IB players coming back after possibly liquidating their accounts aside from certain items that would maintain/grow in value (AoN).. and now are selling said item in order to get going again (buy fungi + cof + epic etc)?

It looks like sellers have been spread around.. two people selling AoN's were tagged mules from Taken. I doubt IB has much to do with it.

[Clark]

wipe it clean

[Clark]

check these guys from guys post back couple pages



[1 days ago] Tallahassee auctions, '(WTS) Amulet of Necropotence , Master Wu's Trance Stick.'
[2 days ago] Tallahassee auctions, '(WTS) Amulet of Necropotence , Crimson Robe of Alendine.'
[3 days ago] Spellvendor auctions, 'wtt Amulet of Necropotence seeking 58+bard epic prefer.'
[3 days ago] Spellvendor auctions, 'WTTAmulet of Necropotence for, UBER account ... prefer bard.'
[1 weeks ago] Vazex auctions, '(WTS) Sebilite Scale Cap1k/Silken Whip of Ensnaring750p/Diamond2k/Black Sapphire2.7k/Lamentation5k/Amulet of Necropotence500k/Spell: Banishment of Shadows5k/.'
[1 weeks ago] Vazex auctions, '(WTS) Sebilite Scale Cap1k/Silken Whip of Ensnaring750p/Diamond2k/Black Sapphire2.7k/Lamentation5k/Spell: Banishment of Shadows5k/Amulet of Necropotence 500k/Spell: Splurt450p/.'
[2 weeks ago] Nuvar auctions, '(WTS) Amulet of Necropotence.'
[4 weeks ago] Cinn auctions, 'Runed Fighters Staff , Amulet of Necropotence .'
[5 weeks ago] Solkunar auctions, 'Amulet of Necropotence, Cobalt Bracer, Fingerbone Hoop, Lamentation.'
[5 weeks ago] Ogrimso auctions, '(WTS) Amulet of Necropotence 500K.'
[5 weeks ago] Ogrimso auctions, '(WTS) Amulet of Necropotence.'
[5 weeks ago] Solkunar auctions, 'Amulet of Necropotence, Cobalt Bracer.'
[5 weeks ago] Cinn auctions, 'Amulet of Necropotence, Runed Fighters Staff.'
[6 weeks ago] Cinn auctions, 'Amulet of Necropotence.'

[liveitup1216]

After nearly 3 years of no wipes, would 1 wipe honestly have you forever living in fear that your chars will get deleted? I'm not arguing FOR a wipe, I'm just genuinely curious as to how that stance is a valid one.

I feel like most of the people saying they would quit after a wipe would in fact come back if velious is actually going to be out this year. Although if that were the case then I'd just say wipe it just before Velious and nobody will leave. Well, nobody you'd miss.

[Sarius]

Why do people keep bringing up wiping like it would ever be a possibility? Will not happen, ever.

[hatelore]

Don't forget to wipe, and wash your hands too~~~

[Swish]

I believe new players buy plat. They like being able to buy the items they want in EC. That is part of the "fun".


About time we had a server run casino bot/lottery system to sink some plat.

"Classic" doesn't come into it anymore... shouldn't be able to duck to cancel spells yet etc.

[Furinex]

I made a comment about someone getting called out in the EC forums about a Donal's BP, with screen shots. Now he's sending me retarded hate mail. It makes him look fairly guilty. Here's a screen shot of the PM (Not so private now eh?)

http://s22.postimg.org/di6fz0s1t/lol.png

[fastboy21]

This is a witch hunt...not every unguilded low lvl no rep toon that has a high end droppable item is a cheater.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen (and it is prob a good first step to catching real cheaters), but all this publicly accusing people of a bannable offenses without any actual evidence is horrible for the server.

I would guess that if the duping is at the level there is a great chance that many MANY of us probably have items that were either duped or bought with money purchased from dupers in RMT. When all of this is said and done there may be innocent folks who wind up banned having done nothing wrong intentionally if this witch hunt keeps going on.

[HawkMasterson1999]

Why do people keep bringing up wiping like it would ever be a possibility? Will not happen, ever.

You don't know how to use the 3 sea shells?

[Erati]

wiping it doesnt fix the dupe

[Orotiagito]

If we did a roll back, I'd probably quit. Since I've only been playing for 12 day thus far. I have received several donations and I've given tons of plat and gear donated by the community to distribute to new players. So if I lost my progression and currency/items It would be very disheartening.

Isn't there a way to see if items have been duped? Instead of accusing every person with a high value item a duper or having a duped item?

Do items have a unique ID for every item dropped or generated from a looted corpse? Or is every item have the same ID/integer in the code? Seems to me like everyone is being paranoid. I agree that there is a large amount of AoN on the market, what are other items being duped? I don't think its safe to say that every item over 25k is duped.

Maybe it was a bad time to start playing on the server? Does this type of activity happen often? Seems to me it shouldn't be hard but just time consuming to narrow the search down to duped items. Given that these culprits have already probably put several items through circulation on the server and transferred several thousands of currency in items to new accounts.

Is it possible to search all accounts that have recently been created and that have been traded thousands of platinum or high end items of value? I think that would be a good start to bringing light on the culprit, also looking at trade logs if a thing is recorded. You could find friends of the player that obviously knows about it. I would just completely remove all currency they have earned since this situation occurred.

[hyper50]

Except doing searches like that are time consuming and the staff is volunteer.

But give me, or any other knowledgeable database users read access to a backup copy of the database and I'm sure we would gladly help find the source of all the duping. I'm not really sure why this isn't an option unless there's records there they don't want us to see.

I agree with this guy. I sit and do stuff similar to this all day at work, would gladly do it if it helped kill the DDOS attacks if they are indeed linked. Unfortunately I joined right as the DDOS attacks begin (no connection, I swear lol). I loved EQ originally and was so happy to see a way to experience it just like it was back when I started 13 years ago. The DDOS just makes it annoying and impossible to enjoy when that's going on. Hopefully this thread is a good first step and the GM's are on the case.

[OMGWTF420]

people take this game WAAAAAAY too seriously, for real

[Rhambuk]

Welcome to P99 wayne!

[xCry0x]

I made a comment about someone getting called out in the EC forums about a Donal's BP, with screen shots. Now he's sending me retarded hate mail. It makes him look fairly guilty. Here's a screen shot of the PM (Not so private now eh?)

http://s22.postimg.org/di6fz0s1t/lol.png

He has a right to be annoyed, you were wrong and still are wrong. I am guilded with priestofdoom and I already posted on the last thread the exact same scenario that the guy PMd you.

[xCry0x]

It looks like sellers have been spread around.. two people selling AoN's were tagged mules from Taken. I doubt IB has much to do with it.

All I was suggesting is that players from high end guilds were coming back to the server and liquidating high value items they had saved from when they were raiding a lot. Example would be an IB player comes back, says hey, I don't want this AoN and sells it.

Bob mentioned he had a client come back to the game and had a stash of thex daggers to sell, same situation could happen for a lot of items.

[AexDestroy]

This just in! Rogean calls for help figuring out the duping problem and is aided in his search for data, by not a single member of TMO!

[khanable]

He has a right to be annoyed, you were wrong and still are wrong. I am guilded with priestofdoom and I already posted on the last thread the exact same scenario that the guy PMd you.

Guy sent me the same PM verbatim

Told him to get fucked

Right or wrong it was suspicious, and he could have approached people in a much better way

[Furinex]

He has a right to be annoyed, you were wrong and still are wrong. I am guilded with priestofdoom and I already posted on the last thread the exact same scenario that the guy PMd you.

No actually, he doesnt, Im not the one who called him out. I simply pointed out that he was called out. It just makes him look guilty, and you too for associating with him.

[xCry0x]

No actually, he doesnt, Im not the one who called him out. I simply pointed out that he was called out. It just makes him look guilty, and you too for associating with him.

Lol...

Yup, super guilty.

Fuck me for knowing the actual story, which is completely legit.

[lecompte]

Lol...

Yup, super guilty.

Fuck me for knowing the actual story, which is completely legit.

Confirmed guilty.
EDIT: Posting my evidence. He has Vibrating Gauntlets of Infuse. Must be duped.

No actually, he doesnt, Im not the one who called him out. I simply pointed out that he was called out. It just makes him look guilty, and you too for associating with him.

Confirmed moron/troll.

Time to move on.

[Halfelfbard]

This just in! Rogean calls for help figuring out the duping problem and is aided in his search for data, by not a single member of TMO!

I already sent in petitions of the dupe working, and how i did it. Eat my ass.

[Sarius]

I stand by the fact that people who call other people out in the EC section should be forum banned. If you have suspicions, you should petition in the appropriate area. Lets end the public witch hunt.

[Erati]

why is it legit story?

bc someone on the internet typed it out to you first?

do you kno that person in RL?


just bc someone says X n claims its legit != free of suspicion given the circumstances

[lecompte]

I already sent in petitions of the dupe working, and how i did it. Eat my ass.

Kinky.

Sorry Rogean to suggest this but... to RnF with this thread!

[Rogean]

Someone PM me some info about this donals BP thing I keep reading about. Looking for character names.

[Nirgon]

Somebody gonna get raped

[Clark]

I made a comment about someone getting called out in the EC forums about a Donal's BP, with screen shots. Now he's sending me retarded hate mail. It makes him look fairly guilty. Here's a screen shot of the PM (Not so private now eh?)

http://s22.postimg.org/di6fz0s1t/lol.png

ban coolname sounds like a faggot

[lecompte]

PM sent to Rogean already, incase Halmir or Priest or Coolname are about to.

[Bantam 1]

I stand by the fact that people who call other people out in the EC section should be forum banned. If you have suspicions, you should petition in the appropriate area. Lets end the public witch hunt.

Opinion.

Also - People should be called out on the EC forums. People who scam should be called out ASAP actually. Oh hold on why I locate the proper authorities who will research and determine if the said perpetraitor is guilty of said crime...

Meanwhile they unload the bad account/item and the buyer gets screwed/scammed.

I realize its your opinion, but damn.

[Halfelfbard]

Stop the DDoS, stop everything my brother! Actually the dupe is very simple...it actually scares me. Just think multiplying like rabbits.

[Furinex]

Right, I'm the troll when he's blasting people with PMs.

[Systolic]

I just PMed this to Rogean but Platlord's spreadsheet has a Donals BP on it that was duped.

[Nirgon]

Some jabroni was found duping rubies and caught by Sirken

lol what a broke, mark ass trick

[Clark]

Some jabroni was found duping rubies and caught by Sirken

lol what a broke, mark ass trick

lol Jabroni, you been watching Always Sunny? :D

[Rogean]

Actually the dupe is very simple...it actually scares me. Just think multiplying like rabbits.

Not impressed. We've actually received almost no threads in petition forum about the dupe since I started this thread. I'm beginning to think it's another Toop scare tactic.

[Stinkum]

Roge-dawg has extended his helping hand in this duping matter and im SMH at y'all not even helping a bro out

[Nirgon]

Turn someone in confidentially, maybe get one or two of your chars moved to new eqemu accounts or a guise as a reward. The Emperor is benevolent to those who help him deliver justice.

[Nirgon]

lol Jabroni, you been watching Always Sunny? :D

The Rock from WWF is what I was going for

[senna]

I remember this exact trade dupe thing happening to me before I quit

Was buying something in EC, went to trade with a buyer, couldnt open trade/was laggy. He camped out and came back and we completed the trade. Next time I logged in I had the item and the plat on my cursor.

[senna]

Also it doesnt surprise me no one is coming forward with petitions. "hey criminals, could you please turn yourselves in?" :o

P99 is cool and all, but when a large portion of the server is throwing money at RMT, its not hard to break bad and cash in.

A quick google search reveals a forum where anyone can go sell their items/plat for hundreds of dollars over paypal. And people are buying it up.

[Missingo]

Wipe it clean

[NegaStoat]

Speaking as a new player to the server, I've observed the DDoS strikes happening right around the 6:30 p.m. Pacific Time frame with regularity and it's disheartening. It's one thing for a server to get attacks like this just to disrupt play of the players. It's a far worse experience to watch your character die from lag and know it's because someone is duping high end shit to wreck the server's economy further.

I know the server Admins love and cherish this server and I know they hate this happening far more than I ever will. So I'll keep playing and keep hoping that some measures will be decided upon in an effort to thwart whoever is doing this from making a profit from it.

If it means taking the server down for 48 or 72 hours to purge accounts of duped crap, so be it. I'm uncertain if that's even possible with items having matching ID #'s for their type, rather than having them assigned individually... But I'm of the opinion that a drastic imperfect solution of any sort is better than letting this go in terms of the server's future.

Best of luck, team.

[Halfelfbard]

Not impressed. We've actually received almost no threads in petition forum about the dupe since I started this thread. I'm beginning to think it's another Toop scare tactic.

Yeah i guess, just kinda happened to me my accident, i put a petition in about it. Not if its gonna make fruit grow but aye...jus lettin ya know. Its all about timing, and i aint no master duper or anything.

Just managed to double my plat.

[lecompte]

Confirmed guilty.
EDIT: Posting my evidence. He has Vibrating Gauntlets of Infuse. Must be duped.
I wrote a limerick as further proof

There once was a dorf named Halmir,
who wanted to hit things with a hammer,
He mouse miss clicked,
found himself a cleric,
and wound up being a scammer.

Figure my limerick is just as good of proof as all these random accusations.

[Loli Pops]

Rampant duping and leveling exploits ran free for 3 years but a wipe is out of the question?

[citizen1080]

You don't wipe a beta test just because there are bugs and dupes found. And my theory is thats all this is. Once Nilbog has everything dialed in the velious is stale he will launch a 2nd server that is progression and on the classic timeline. And he will play finally.

I just cant see him spending years of his life coding for random neckbeards without having a end game in mind.

[NegaStoat]

I've read numerous posters saying "Wipe it clean". I'm unfamiliar with such matters, so I have a few questions involving it.

What would be wiped? Character loot drops of high value? Which ones? Or are we talking about a full server-wide purge of ALL items on every created character? If that could be explained, it would be great. Or if we are talking about a server rollback, I understand what happens there but I'm curious to what depth it would be taken.

Next up - what would it accomplish? How would this measure discourage Real Money Transactions and the people behind them from duping stuff again? Because that's the heart of the matter. Planning to discourage this for the server's future is of paramount importance.

Thanks for what answers you might have. I'm trying not to come off as sounding negative. I really am just curious.

[Gadwen]

Stop trying to turn this thread into a shitfest about server wipes. Plenty of other garbage troll threads about them that you can bump if you want to talk about that.

Lock this shit down and sticky a new thread with just the OP.

[citizen1080]

I've read numerous posters saying "Wipe it clean". I'm unfamiliar with such matters, so I have a few questions involving it.

What would be wiped? Character loot drops of high value? Which ones? Or are we talking about a full server-wide purge of ALL items on every created character? If that could be explained, it would be great. Or if we are talking about a server rollback, I understand what happens there but I'm curious to what depth it would be taken.

Next up - what would it accomplish? How would this measure discourage Real Money Transactions and the people behind them from duping stuff again? Because that's the heart of the matter. Planning to discourage this for the server's future is of paramount importance.

Thanks for what answers you might have. I'm trying not to come off as sounding negative. I really am just curious.

wipe it clean means a complete restart. Wiping all characters, and items.

[Gaffin Deeppockets]

Wipe it clean

[Spud]

Why would they wipe the server before Velious is released? Doesn't make any sense.

[Dirtnap]

Why would they wipe the server before Velious is released? Doesn't make any sense.

If they wiped it now, by the time we were that far into the timeline, we still wouldn't have Velious. So it wouldn't hurt the wait for Velious.

[Eccezan]

I remember this exact trade dupe thing happening to me before I quit

Was buying something in EC, went to trade with a buyer, couldnt open trade/was laggy. He camped out and came back and we completed the trade. Next time I logged in I had the item and the plat on my cursor.

The question is, is it possible to stop this behavior to no longer dupe? logic says if the dupe doesnt work anymore, then no reason for the DDOS'ers to continue to pay money to lag the server enough to dupe stuff. (assuming they are paying money to DDOS the server because they are making a lot more money RMT'ing the proceeds)

[Systolic]

Occam's Razor

[NegaStoat]

"wipe it clean" would only work if there is a discovered means to discourage future duping. This server has an established market demand for items for real money from idiot players, and that won't go away from a wipe.

[delusion]

Wiping it clean fixes nothing. You think they wouldn't just start up doing the exact same thing on the new one? It's quite disheartening that the staff has received very little help with figuring this out.

It's either not as rampant and widespread as everyone thinks or a lot of people know about it and don't want to help fix the problem while they stand to profit/gain from it.

The one thing I do know is it's making it impossible to enjoy the game while the DDoS attacks continue.

[fadetree]

client a opens trade window
client a tells server to tell client b to open trade window
client b opens trade window
player a puts item in trade window
client a tells server who tells client b about it
client b acks
player b hits accept
client b takes item into inventory
client b tells server okie dokie
server TRIES to tell client a about client b now having the item but
DDOS fail fail fail
client a never gets told the trade finished, so it never removes the item
voila - DUPE

Rogean - you could look for people just standing around swapping items a lot back and forth at the usual ddos times

[Visual]

client a opens trade window
client a tells server to tell client b to open trade window
client b opens trade window
player a puts item in trade window
client a tells server who tells client b about it
client b acks
player b hits accept
client b takes item into inventory
client b tells server okie dokie
server TRIES to tell client a about client b now having the item but
DDOS fail fail fail
client a never gets told the trade finished, so it never removes the item
voila - DUPE

Rogean - you could look for people just standing around swapping items a lot back and forth at the usual ddos times

that begs the question, why isn't it programmed so the item is registered as removed from the offerer before it's registered as received by the recipient...

Better to have people petition for lost items than the market being flooded with artificial shit imo. You'd also see it getting more attention from the staff so they could alleviate the problem :p

[Furinex]

that begs the question, why isn't it programmed so the item is registered as removed from the offerer before it's registered as received by the recipient...

If I could find the post I would, but I read a post from someone in another thread, that the EQ code is an elegant code meant for a time period of greater mental fortitude and honor. Honor being the keyword. Being as this was an innocent time period, these things probably weren't thought of. Wish I could remember who said it so I could quote them directly, for it was a brilliant statement that holds real weight.

[fadetree]

Its just a classic synchronization problem. Its probably made worse by the coders wanting to err on the side of preventing losses rather than preventing dupes.

[Gadwen]

If I could find the post I would, but I read a post from someone in another thread, that the EQ code is an elegant code meant for a time period of greater mental fortitude and honor. Honor being the keyword. Being as this was an innocent time period, these things probably weren't thought of. Wish I could remember who said it so I could quote them directly, for it was a brilliant statement that holds real weight.

Nice sentiment....but no.

[citizen1080]

Gadwen my friend....did someone shit in your cereal recently? You seem to be awfully negative lately on the forums =(

[lecompte]

Isn't duping classic? People duped things on the original servers. Why would it be wiped? Part of the classic experience! (as is getting banned after the exploit is found and removed)

[Gadwen]

Gadwen my friend....did someone shit in your cereal recently? You seem to be awfully negative lately on the forums =(

I must be spending too much time here.

I could elaborate in a more friendly way on the likelihood of the game being developed with honorable players in mind but It's just too much typing.

[Sarius]

Remove all duped items (if possible)
Perma ban everyone found to have duped and item that did not report it, no second chances

[Furinex]

The trail leads from the toilet to the kitchen table.

[sulpher01]

I understand this is going to screw a lot of people over who have traded high end items as of late (if they are duped), but in the end if no plat is being created, I don't see how its *seriously* hurting the economy. And if the items are removed, even the worth of those items would go back up... so the people saying 'wipe it clean' aren't really saying that because of the damage the server's economy has taken, but because they suck and want to even the playing field. :cool:

[Furinex]

I understand this is going to screw a lot of people over who have traded high end items as of late (if they are duped), but in the end if no plat is being created, I don't see how its *seriously* hurting the economy. And if the items are removed, even the worth of those items would go back up... so the people saying 'wipe it clean' aren't really saying that because of the damage the server's economy has taken, but because they suck and want to even the playing field. :cool:

I'm not saying a wipe is the answer at all, Im fairly happy with my character set... but what if plat was being duped? Cant say the economy wont be taking a hit.

[Champion_Standing]

I don't see how they could remove all the duped items from the game without spending hundreds and hundreds of hours looking through logs investigating every trade that went on. A lot of legit players would end up getting screwed, I don't have enough plat to buy high end stuff yet but if I bought myself a fungi and then a month later it was gone with no type of reimbursement because it was a duped item...I would probably quit playing. Should every player be worried that any item they are buying might have been duped and may vanish sometime in the future? If so....that is really messed up.

[Sarius]

Seems like plat had been retaining its value this far. Hopefully if plat is being duped it will be RMT'd and those fuckers will get banned. Plat removed, hurray!

[Stinkum]

"Everything is gonna be okay."

http://www.allgreatquotes.com/Images/comicalali.jpg

[Clark]

Seems like plat had been retaining its value this far. Hopefully if plat is being duped it will be RMT'd and those fuckers will get banned. Plat removed, hurray!

for sure, hope they can check trade logs during lag spikes pinpointing some accounts to nuke

[Eccezan]

http://i.imgur.com/HDGJaIol.jpg

[Excidium]

I'm still laughing at how this all panned out. RMT was happening either by high end players selling to Platlord, or platlord and other players duping a pile of items. You praise having platlord's accounts banned, and you are all suprised by the DDOS and duping scheme happening. You can't ban RMT out of a game, its actually impossible for even the likes of Blizzard to do it. So stop this silly crusade.

Find the dupe bug and fix it. Put in a rotation, or something that prevents TMO from monopolizing the high cash drops they don't need. And maybe, just maybe, less plat will make it to platlord. Make it so people don't need to buy platinum to get gear, they can actually kill for it. I can bet my left nut that he is fed by legit players just like yantis was back in Classic.

This just reeks of 'War on Drugs' syndrome. Keep beating that dead horse. Blizzard found the cure for RMT and it turned around and backfired in their face with Chinese just hacking people's accounts. How many headaches does that crap give Blizzard on a daily basis. Heck I just got an email from Blizzard a week ago saying my account has been locked due to suspicious login attempts. I have not logged into my battlenet account since SC2HotS, and WoW has been 3 years.

[Lord Traxor]

I'm still laughing at how this all panned out. RMT was happening either by high end players selling to Platlord, or platlord and other players duping a pile of items. You praise having platlord's accounts banned, and you are all suprised by the DDOS and duping scheme happening. You can't ban RMT out of a game, its actually impossible for even the likes of Blizzard to do it. So stop this silly crusade.

Find the dupe bug and fix it. Put in a rotation, or something that prevents TMO from monopolizing the high cash drops they don't need. And maybe, just maybe, less plat will make it to platlord. Make it so people don't need to buy platinum to get gear, they can actually kill for it. I can bet my left nut that he is fed by legit players just like yantis was back in Classic.

This just reeks of 'War on Drugs' syndrome. Keep beating that dead horse. Blizzard found the cure for RMT and it turned around and backfired in their face with Chinese just hacking people's accounts. How many headaches does that crap give Blizzard on a daily basis. Heck I just got an email from Blizzard a week ago saying my account has been locked due to suspicious login attempts. I have not logged into my battlenet account since SC2HotS, and WoW has been 3 years.
^---THIS

[Sarius]

I bet the majority of the players who buy platinum are new players you want to start closer to par with everybody else. If there was an enforced rotation I feel that their would just be more people that would sell PP to platlord. Not that I am against a rotation by any means

[Tasslehofp99]

I'm still laughing at how this all panned out. RMT was happening either by high end players selling to Platlord, or platlord and other players duping a pile of items. You praise having platlord's accounts banned, and you are all suprised by the DDOS and duping scheme happening. You can't ban RMT out of a game, its actually impossible for even the likes of Blizzard to do it. So stop this silly crusade.

Find the dupe bug and fix it. Put in a rotation, or something that prevents TMO from monopolizing the high cash drops they don't need. And maybe, just maybe, less plat will make it to platlord. Make it so people don't need to buy platinum to get gear, they can actually kill for it. I can bet my left nut that he is fed by legit players just like yantis was back in Classic.

This just reeks of 'War on Drugs' syndrome. Keep beating that dead horse. Blizzard found the cure for RMT and it turned around and backfired in their face with Chinese just hacking people's accounts. How many headaches does that crap give Blizzard on a daily basis. Heck I just got an email from Blizzard a week ago saying my account has been locked due to suspicious login attempts. I have not logged into my battlenet account since SC2HotS, and WoW has been 3 years.

^---THIS


Confirmed RMT sympathizers.

[Champion_Standing]

I bet the majority of the players who buy platinum are new players you want to start closer to par with everybody else. If there was an enforced rotation I feel that their would just be more people that would sell PP to platlord. Not that I am against a rotation by any means

In the "interview" tiggles did with Ephi he confirmed this. Most of the accounts he bans for buying plat are newer and lower lvl players.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Keep in mind that active policing of RMT is used by this server as a way to demonstrate non-infringing fair use. Ceasing to police RMT will create a greater chance of liability.

[Sarius]

Keep in mind that active policing of RMT is used by this server as a way to demonstrate non-infringing fair use. Ceasing to police RMT will create a greater chance of liability.

This. Every time you idiots buy PP and items for cash you are not only risking getting banned and being out cash, but also being out cash by the server getting shut down. If you stop buying shit from RMT sites, RMT sites will not have any reason to function for this server.

Stop fucking RMTing

[fuark]

I'm still laughing at how this all panned out. RMT was happening either by high end players selling to Platlord, or platlord and other players duping a pile of items. You praise having platlord's accounts banned, and you are all suprised by the DDOS and duping scheme happening. You can't ban RMT out of a game, its actually impossible for even the likes of Blizzard to do it. So stop this silly crusade.

Find the dupe bug and fix it. Put in a rotation, or something that prevents TMO from monopolizing the high cash drops they don't need. And maybe, just maybe, less plat will make it to platlord. Make it so people don't need to buy platinum to get gear, they can actually kill for it. I can bet my left nut that he is fed by legit players just like yantis was back in Classic.

This just reeks of 'War on Drugs' syndrome. Keep beating that dead horse. Blizzard found the cure for RMT and it turned around and backfired in their face with Chinese just hacking people's accounts. How many headaches does that crap give Blizzard on a daily basis. Heck I just got an email from Blizzard a week ago saying my account has been locked due to suspicious login attempts. I have not logged into my battlenet account since SC2HotS, and WoW has been 3 years.

This x1000^1000. (my account was hacked like two weeks ago also, didn't give a shit)

I love these forums for their drama, and I love classic EQ, but a lot of people on this server treat this game (and their AoNs/ guild-banked trak guts) as literally the most important thing in their life.

[Excidium]

Confirmed RMT sympathizers.

Wow, truly an amazing post. I'm calling you out on every post you make that confirms my thoughts on RMT and how trying to stop it normally affects the common player. Do not cry about the DDOS or people farming cash drops when they already own 15 fungis. Those are the people who normally fund this kind of thing.

I have been enjoying my time playing on P99, but I'm starting to see the cracks in the paint when I get to the end game. Locking away drug users (new players buying plat) doesn't stop platlord from making money, it only reduces the amount of new players who might play this game. Banning Platlord's accounts did jack shit too and its negatively affect the server so much that I can't even play the damn game properly.

TL:DR
Not a sympathizer, I just know when its time to fold them. Stop being the typical P99 whiteknight. They won't ever be able to fully stop RMT. Instead they just cause grief for all the legitimate players in the process.

[Loli Pops]

Yantis used to send weekly emails back in the day with his wares. Man I can't believe I remember that shit. Never bought a thing tho. Scrubs.

[Excidium]

Keep in mind that active policing of RMT is used by this server as a way to demonstrate non-infringing fair use. Ceasing to police RMT will create a greater chance of liability.

And to my knowledge, there is no fair use. And if there is any type of donations to this server, that is seen as revenue. Calling it a donation isn't changing the fact that somebody is getting paid.

[fastboy21]

This. Every time you idiots buy PP and items for cash you are not only risking getting banned and being out cash, but also being out cash by the server getting shut down. If you stop buying shit from RMT sites, RMT sites will not have any reason to function for this server.

Stop fucking RMTing


Yeah, that will do it...good job :p

RMT ruins games...the nature of classic EQ encourages RMT...its a horrible cycle.

The RMT is only getting so much attention right now because folks are linking (with some speculation and some circumstantial evidence) it with the DDOS. The DDOS ruins everything instantly for the entire server. Take the DDOS out of the equation and most folks would go back to not caring significantly about the RMT.

Personally, I don't like the RMT (or the DDOS)...but I don't think there is a real solution to this problem. There wasn't on live (still isn't on live) and there won't be one here. Wiping the server doesn't fix the problem. If anything, a server wipe might create an even greater market for RMT.

Sometimes it is better to leave the genie in the bottle than it is to smash it and see what happens.

[Frieza_Prexus]

And to my knowledge, there is no fair use. And if there is any type of donations to this server, that is seen as revenue. Calling it a donation isn't changing the fact that somebody is getting paid.

Game emulation is a legal gray area currently. It tends to be a fairly dark shade of gray, but there is not much settled law on the subject. Because the issue is fuzzy, the server protects itself by accumulating as many possible defenses as it can.

These include, but are not limited to, confidential understandings with Sony decision makers who have connections to EQ, active policing of RMT activities, no personal pecuniary gain, and agreements to not actively pursue current Sony customers by advertising on Sony's forums.

These are not perfect defenses, and they very well could be meaningless. However, they contain potential utility to safeguard the server, and the staff has chosen to pursue these protections for obvious reasons. Even if there is no legal leg to stand on, active policing of RMT activities might prove to be a mitigating factor that discourages Sony from pursuing action against the server.

[Sirken]

just a reminder

do NOT post your info on duping in this thread,

send it to Rogean in a PM, OR go to the petition forum. but this thread is not the place to report info to the staff

<3
Sirks

[Excidium]

Game emulation is a legal gray area currently. It tends to be a fairly dark shade of gray, but there is not much settled law on the subject. Because the issue is fuzzy, the server protects itself by accumulating as many possible defenses as it can.

These include, but are not limited to, confidential understandings with Sony decision makers who have connections to EQ, active policing of RMT activities, no personal pecuniary gain, and agreements to not actively pursue current Sony customers by advertising on Sony's forums.

These are not perfect defenses, and they very well could be meaningless. However, they contain potential utility to safeguard the server, and the staff has chosen to pursue these protections for obvious reasons. Even if there is no legal leg to stand on, active policing of RMT activities might prove to be a mitigating factor that discourages Sony from pursuing action against the server.

Two of your defences are common sense to not kick the hornets nest. RMT on the other hand is not something you can successfully pursue. As long as this server shares the likeness of soe's IP they have total authority over this. Emulation of a client is one thing, its what you buy when you purchase the game. What is not something you can emulate is their server client since you never purchased the ability to use that software. If anything, SOE could come after the server from all tje pirated copies people use to plau this game from.

[Frieza_Prexus]

If anything, SOE could come after the server from all tje pirated copies people use to plau this game from.

Which is why these forums generally do not permit the open subornation of pirating the Titanium client. Yes, SoE could very likely have this server shut down if they pursued it hard enough. P99 does not survive by legal defense, it survives by escaping scrutiny.

The staff has stated in the past that the policing of RMT has been demonstrably useful in avoiding SoE's close attention. You are absolutely correct to say that such policing may ultimately prove marginal or futile at stopping the flow of RMT itself, but that is not the only consideration. Policing RMT prevents unwanted attention.

[t0lkien]

If I could find the post I would, but I read a post from someone in another thread, that the EQ code is an elegant code meant for a time period of greater mental fortitude and honor. Honor being the keyword. Being as this was an innocent time period, these things probably weren't thought of. Wish I could remember who said it so I could quote them directly, for it was a brilliant statement that holds real weight.

Here you go:

EQ was designed in a more innocent time :(

Not as clumsy or random as a modern MMO; an elegant code for a more civilized age.

By the way, the *only* way to code an item exchange is to create it in the receiver's inventory before deleting it from the giver's in order to avoid the item being lost altogether in these very instances. That is rigourous code. The problem, of course, is it creates the opportunity for duping. Individual item numbers would have fixed that, but this being the first game of its kind I guess no-one foresaw the prospect of server-wide duping. Individual item tagging is standard practice now. I'm reasonably certain item exchanges are coded in a slightly different way too (a type of database escrow).

I know the same issue could happen on death - I died on Live once and when the server came up I was at my spawn point fully clothed with a full inventory. I went back to my camp and there was a fully clothed corpse, including my epic (so I had to delete one - that was the most difficult delete I ever did). I didn't want the second version left around anywhere incase there were checks. I profited in a small way because non-lore items were lootable so I took them. I felt bad about doing even that, so whatever I couldn't use was given away or destroyed.

[Excidium]

Which is why these forums generally do not permit the open subornation of pirating the Titanium client. Yes, SoE could very likely have this server shut down if they pursued it hard enough. P99 does not survive by legal defense, it survives by escaping scrutiny.

The staff has stated in the past that the policing of RMT has been demonstrably useful in avoiding SoE's close attention. You are absolutely correct to say that such policing may ultimately prove marginal or futile at stopping the flow of RMT itself, but that is not the only consideration. Policing RMT prevents unwanted attention.

I'll give you that. But now you need to figure out how to prevent RMT other than the failed way of "Its bad, do it and go to jail". We all know that doesn't work. But as a previous post stated, this game inherently breeds RMT because items can be monopolized. Look how bad that Soulfire thread derailed because TMO got beat by a classic mechanic. How many Trak kills did they get? How many of those drops get banked?

I say this because I'm ashamed of my time in Echoes of Elysium on the progression. Damdor and his crew of neckbeard unemployed basement dwellers really hurt that server. We were still farming AOW when POP came out. Everybody and their alt had BOCs and I bet there was some RMTing involved. We had no reason to keep farming Tormax and AoW. Yeah maybe 1 piece would go to a main or alt or bot, but most went unaccounted for. In the end Damdor convinced himself that he was entitled to ever spawn in the game, and many good people stopped playing because he would poopsock every spawn and batphone at 3am. He just couldn't share, and it sounds like that here in P99. We monopolized an expansion for 2-3 months. TMO here has been doing it for how long now?

[Razdeline]

Here you go:





By the way, the *only* way to code an item exchange is to create it in the receiver's inventory before deleting it from the giver's in order to avoid the item being lost altogether in these very instances. That is rigourous code. The problem, of course, is it creates the opportunity for duping. Individual item numbers would have fixed that, but this being the first game of its kind I guess no-one foresaw the prospect of server-wide duping. Individual item tagging is standard practice now. I'm reasonably certain item exchanges are coded in a slightly different way too (a type of database escrow).

I know the same issue could happen on death - I died on Live once and when the server came up I was at my spawn point fully clothed with a full inventory. I went back to my camp and there was a fully clothed corpse, including my epic (so I had to delete one - that was the most difficult delete I ever did). I didn't want the second version left around anywhere incase there were checks. I profited in a small way because non-lore items were lootable so I took them. I felt bad about doing even that, so whatever I couldn't use was given away or destroyed.

Same thing happened to me during live, I died during extreme lag, came back and had a full corpse. I went back out to the same camp I was at and saw my corpse on the ground. I wonder if a method of this is being used to dupe. Too bad I was only in my 30's and didn't have anything of value.

Do you remember the exact scenario in which this occurred for you? Maybe if we can create the same environment we can reproduce the issue on p99.

[t0lkien]

Same thing happened to me during live, I died during extreme lag, came back and had a full corpse. I went back out to the same camp I was at and saw my corpse on the ground. I wonder if a method of this is being used to dupe. Too bad I was only in my 30's and didn't have anything of value.

Do you remember the exact scenario in which this occurred for you? Maybe if we can create the same environment we can reproduce the issue on p99.

I was camping the Bard ammo slot gem in SSrae Temple, so was very solo (by "very" I mean there was no-one even close to being near me - it was pretty much a group-only area that Bards figured out how to solo). I died to a combination of lag/resists and the server came down before I respawned at my bind point. That had happened before, but it must have happened for me at the point after the server had spawned my fully geared corpse, but before it had removed all the gear from my character.

There was a lot of talk at the time about duping, I remember. Uber guilders had figured this dynamic out and were apparently using exploits to crash zones and duplicate their inventories in this exact way (surprise, surprise). The server I was on and others were being flooded with duped plat. Sony was attempting to track it all down and fix it - which is why I decided to just delete my corpse inventory and walk away whistling. I didn't want to run the risk of being banned/suspended for something that was entirely innocent.

Actually, I think I had to delete my character items before looting the corpse items - hence my anxiety at deleting the epic I was carrying. I remember checking the version on my corpse many times to make certain it was ok before I went through with it, and tested it on lesser lore items first.

[Razdeline]

I think what happened to me was I casted gate. The gate went off, but the server logged me dying in the zone. Resulting in a corpse and a live character.

[Visual]

I hear platlord is back and business is in full swing since the ddos has been occurring. Congrats to him, he's making this shit work in his favor while the rest of us can't play the game :p

[fastboy21]

P1999 blue and red are now off his website...if he is selling already he is doing through a different identity.

[Turp_SmokinPurp]

I hear platlord is back and business is in full swing since the ddos has been occurring. Congrats to him, he's making this shit work in his favor while the rest of us can't play the game :p
Yea since around patch day we have had daily lagg,ddos,dupe whatever you want to call it. CONSTANT. You would think RMT would be damaged from the lag... I mean what good is plat if you cant even cast a damned spell:confused:

[Bantam 1]

I was camping the Bard ammo slot gem in SSrae Temple, so was very solo (by "very" I mean there was no-one even close to being near me - it was pretty much a group-only area that Bards figured out how to solo). I died to a combination of lag/resists and the server came down before I respawned at my bind point. That had happened before, but it must have happened for me at the point after the server had spawned my fully geared corpse, but before it had removed all the gear from my character.

There was a lot of talk at the time about duping, I remember. Uber guilders had figured this dynamic out and were apparently using exploits to crash zones and duplicate their inventories in this exact way (surprise, surprise). The server I was on and others were being flooded with duped plat. Sony was attempting to track it all down and fix it - which is why I decided to just delete my corpse inventory and walk away whistling. I didn't want to run the risk of being banned/suspended for something that was entirely innocent.

Actually, I think I actually had to delete my character items before looting the corpse items - hence my anxiety at deleting the epic I was carrying. I remember checking the version on my corpse many times to make certain it was ok before I went through with it, and tested it on lesser lore items first.

There were a lot of corpses at shady recently......(well known player) they all disappeared today...

[finalgrunt]

Looks like Robin Hood started playing p99 :D

[Tasslehofp99]

All started when IB came back.

[OwenW]

I believe ddos started when that guy was showing the throwing daggers bug. All GMs have to do to prove AoN were duped is a count of AoNs before that date and now... that's like a 1-month period. Check what CT dropped in that month then you'll know

Problem with that is I doubt there are extensive server logs, so this information is near impossible to obtain.

[Meiva]

Yikes! Another possible DDOS attack just hit. A big one... Going to attempt to re-log. It just crashed me.

[skorge]

I'm currently working on a duping guide and hoping to get it on the P99 Wiki:

Level 1: Kill skeletons and loot a cracked staff - get a friend to help you trade in-game while the server is lagging bad. Trade him the cracked staff (server must be lagging). 30 seconds later log out. Log back in and you will both see you have the cracked staff. Do this 500 times and sell your staffs. You now have 1,000 plat.

Level 2: Buy a Leatherfoot Raider Hat. Repeat the process above. After logging off, log back in (both having the hats). The trick to this step is that you need to sell the hats right afterwards because they are lore. After doing so you should have 2,000 plat.

Level 3: Now that you have 2,000 plat you can get you a Poison Wind Censer. Basically repeat the above step, and because they are lore you will have to sell shortly afterwards. Ultimately you will end up with 4,000 plat.

Level 4: Repeat step 1 again where you get 1,000 plat after 500 transfers of it, only this time do it 1,000 times because you need to end up with 6,000 plat. That's your goal for Level 5.

Level 5: Take your 6,000 plat and buy some golden efreeti bewtz. This is your money item because they aren't lore. You need to buy one of them first, then when the lag hits hard do an exchange. Both log out shortly after it and come back in and you will both have the cool bewtz. Repeat this about 500 times and you will net 600,000 plat between the two of you.

Level 60: Take the 600,000 plat and buy an AoN. Repeat the step above but only with the AoN. You win teh game!

Someone should upload this guide to the wiki

[Dostarr]

Lulz Skorge

[Bohab]

Yea since around patch day we have had daily lagg,ddos,dupe whatever you want to call it. CONSTANT. You would think RMT would be damaged from the lag... I mean what good is plat if you cant even cast a damned spell:confused:

What is that being smoked in your sig? lobster shit? idk why but I really want to try that