Teams - whats better?

[Sirken]

Some staff feel two teams is best (ie: WoW, SWToR), others feel that 3-4 teams is much better (ie: Sullon Zek, Vallon Zek) So which do you prefer, and why? (if your post does not include a reason, it will be ignored).


2 Teams

3 Teams

0 Teams


(yes i could do a poll, but that would encourage people to vote without posting, and anyone that doesnt post a reason deserves to be ignored).


thank you very much,
Sirken

[Lurgort/Sseri]

4 Teams
Humans, Shorties, Elves, Evils

For the most fun experience to be honest.
You'll automatically have friends (your team) when you roll a toon. You can even be dirty crossteaming losers later on because you're infatuated with becoming showered with awesome pixels!

[hagard]

only 2 teams imo
population too small to divide it up that much

[Faerie]

4 teams so I can be elf team. WTB yellow name.

[runlvlzero]

Two teams, two main continents. One with more evil and one more pure/nuetral. This seperates newbie and leveling grounds. Haflings are left in the middle of enemies though. Unless you divide humans into the different teams, Qeynos good, Fp evil. But this is still not really enough of a boost for the halflings.

Tox doesn't count since its very incomplete. I would include them with the "elf team" though.

What do do with erudite and human necros? Maybe they serve the greater good for w/e side they pick anyway.

Also I would like to add mixing a lil good and evil on both teams keeps them more 'dynamic'. Nothing is black and white. There is plenty of grey for realistic teams this way. And I think it avoids the issue of classes not being able to be on a team. Shamans would be left out with barbarians on team evil... so maybe switch them to team good.

So it would be:
Team good: High elf, Wood Elf, Gnome, Dwarf, Halfling, Qeynos Humans, Erudites, Barbarians.
Team Evil: Dark elf, FP humans, Trolls, Ogres.

Team evil looks small again, but later they get iksars and have CT+Guk+Sola+Solb in their territories.

Gnomes could very well go to team evil as they are mostly not KOS in neriak and everyone seemed to like fighting them on Sullon )

[skacat]

0 teams.

it seems like without any incentives to not stack one team, it'll just end up with really unbalanced teams.

I never played teams EQ. If there was a way to incentivize being on the lowest pop/power team then that might encourage some variety, otherwise expect the team with the most min/max-y combos available to be 90% of the pop (aka evil team).

Also if there was actually any (non-erotic) role playing involved that might make teams make more sense, but that would involve a lot of GM interaction and wouldn't be very classic.

Think you could accomplish much of the same by giving guilds/groups some kind of incentive to stick to the team lines. There's so much non-game communication these days I don't see how you would prevent cross teaming and other shady behavior.

[Agatha]

I like the idea of teams but i dont know. i still rather have no teams and it just be guilds vs guilds

[SamwiseRed]

3 teams is best. odd number keeps it from being these guys vs these guys. also fits in with EQ lore. altho things got zergy on sz, i dont think thatll happen again. 2 teams will always fail, ALWAYS. just like 2 guilds. one dies and all is lost. im not saying we have to adapt all of SZs rules but their teams made the most sense of all the teams servers.

[Bazia]

2 teams cuz of pop

[Stasis01]

Both 3 teams or 2 would be awesome - would allow for people to feel safe/grp with others on their teams.

Pls say this means it's wiped Sirken.

[Knuckle]

0 teams -

Reason being, players will play with who they want, we have microphone programs, and plenty of ways to stay in touch via cell phone and public guild forums. If you put teams in place you simply force people to cross team and abuse immortal healing and things of that nature, ultimately people will get griefed harder and it will become even harder to find groups.

TLDR; The more restrictions on PVP you place, the harder it makes the game for people unguilded, competitive players will always play with the same people.

[Stasis01]

Instead of just taking the red99 cockmeat sandwich by every player.

[SamwiseRed]

Team good: High elf, Wood Elf, Gnome, Dwarf, Halfling, Qeynos Humans, Erudites.
Team Evil: Dark elf, FP humans, Trolls, Ogres, Barbarians.

What do do with erudite and human necros? Maybe they server the greater good for w/e side they pick anyway.

those teams make no sense at all. evil barbarians? ya maybe the occasional warrior who worships rallos zek. please dont try to re-invent the teams wheel, its always going to look retarded to anyone with a clue about eq lore.

[skacat]

Non evil melee will get rolled by evil. Racial hide on evil casters. Evil wins.

[aborted]

Agreed, two teams is best option

for one people do better when there are two teams, one will be evil one will be good
even if ya have 3 teams one will end up being the evil team and one will be a good one, then there will be the neutral, you don't want neutral people, internet studies have shown people enjoy games where you are limited in choices when it comes to factions.

Our population is small, so its not big enough for more than 2 imo
If there are 3 or more then you will have people in different factions OOR healing, the more factions you have the more chance for that to happen.

p.s.
If ya do 2 teams base the evil/teams teams on a combo of race and deity.

[SamwiseRed]

Non evil melee will get rolled by evil. Racial hide on evil casters. Evil wins.
cant be worse than it is now lulz. also newts will get racial hide as well (halfling duh). good rangers/rogues (wood elf warriors) as well as a few other combos. NEXT

[SamwiseRed]

guys trust me, 2 teams will be fun but ultimately will fail. best pvp servers i ever played were Aika (5 teams) and SZ (3 teams.) WoW was good too and it was 2 teams however the game was still new so ofc it was backa nd forth. as servers progressed into BC, one side usually began winning all AVs and dominateing world pvp (until arena ruined pvp then who gave a shit.)

also 2 teams will force a CUSTOM selection of teams. there were no 2 team servers on live. its going to be a heated debate on where race/class/deity combos fall. its gonna get ugly.

[skacat]

K your woodelf warr vs my ogre warr well see how that pans out for ya.

Halflings can't be casters.

Are we talking about the same game?

[hagard]

Pls say this means it's wiped Sirken.

??? we want 2 know

[Naikon]

EQ needs atleast 3 teams to try and keep the strongest team in check. In my experience two teams leads to one team dominating the other in every aspect. People will say they want to play the underdogs, but people also say they want item loot; neither works.

[Stasis01]

I bet more than a few people sweaten bullets due to this thread.

[STILLnotMORNIN]

I vote for a non PvP Roleplaying server...

[SamwiseRed]

K your woodelf warr vs my ogre warr well see how that pans out for ya.

Halflings can't be casters.

Are we talking about the same game?

ya same problems melees had in classic. im not seeing your point. also when you say casters i lop priests in there with them, my bad.

[STILLnotMORNIN]

I bet more than a few people sweaten bullets due to this thread.

The tears are so god damn delicious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owzhYNcd4OM

[SamwiseRed]

whether 2 or 3 teams. for gods sake make it hard coded. none of than x teaming tz/vz shizza.

[Stasis01]

3 teams

[Jepaxis]

Having been on VZ and SZ, predefined teams were horrible.

The servers started out lopsided and only continued to get more so. People gravitate towards evils races and/or the largest team on the PvP servers. Plus lighty elves are just all around weak race, so any team stuck with them starts with a disadvantage.

Maybe if you did something like assign players/classes to a team at say 50 and have the server balance out the classes amongst the teams, then things would stay fairly even.

It would be easy to do and keep the server more interesting and balanced. You could even modify the assignment based off which team is dominating in PvP and give the other team(s) a boost by giving them more people on their team to help offset the domination. If the tables turn, the boost goes away or shifts automatically.

Also, your team is your guild, so we don't have people stuck solo and/or in tiny guilds unable to do shit or reason to help their team.

Either way, no matter how ya set up teams, they can't be player chosen. It will just result in a total imbalance. Everyone who was in Nihi would join the same team and large numbers would follow.

[Zeds]

3 teams, cause I want to play again

[bigeasy]

I bet more than a few people sweaten bullets due to this thread.

sweating hard bro,, that is why Sirken just posted the below in another thread at 8:41 PM

registration will close Thursday Night at 11:59pm

7 wiz
4 pal

rest of you are scared as fawk.

trolls will be trolls,, red will not be wiped especially not due to hardware failure.

[HeisChuck]

for the familys of tune and nizzar pls dont wipe

[SamwiseRed]

3 teams, the deity/race/class combo is already broken down.

teams make sense

teams are somewhat balanced (GM arzak gonan be on the good team while nizzarr re-builds Ruin 2.0 and zergs the shit out of evils) alot of people do not like evil races here. nilly gonna be split into thirds instantly.

[Lokinis]

3 teams. 3 options. Diety based, Race based, or select based (select based is not eq) but regardless i would be happy with any

[SamwiseRed]

3 teams, cause I want to play again

holy shit its Zeds!

my god all the reds are crawling back into the basements for one last chance at e-glory.

[skacat]

Agreed that if there are teams, 3 or 4 is better than 2.

Might as well make the teams default guilds with GM leaders and let people leave them if they want.

[SamwiseRed]

The 'Teams':

The Good Alliance consists of: Erollisi Marr, Mithaniel Marr, Rodcet Nife, Quellious, Tunare
The Evil Alliance consists of: Bertoxxulous, Cazic Thule, Innoruuk, Rallos Zek
The Neutral Alliance consists of: Brell Serilis, Bristlebane, Karana, Prexus, Solusek Ro, The Tribunal, Veeshan.

no agnostics. where do i donate again?

[runlvlzero]

those teams make no sense at all. evil barbarians? ya maybe the occasional warrior who worships rallos zek. please dont try to re-invent the teams wheel, its always going to look retarded to anyone with a clue about eq lore.

I was ignoring EQ lore because all EQ lore based teams were imbalanced but yeah, its either WTF or invent make up teams. Anyway I revised my post with more explanation and put barbarians back on team good.

[Zeds]

holy shit its Zeds!

my god all the reds are crawling back into the basements for one last chance at e-glory.

gotta protect the shire bros

[Kraftwerk]

for the familys of tune and nizzar pls dont wipe

[Colgate]

0 teams, knuckle and skacat summed it up pretty well

[SamwiseRed]

immersion > balance.

players will ultimately decide balance. if 100 people roll evil and 10 roll good well ofc its unbalanced. if you make 2 teams, there is alot better chance of everyone rolling on the same team. 3 will split this shit up real nice. just look at what everyone plays now. there isnt as much min/maxing going on as you would think.

[Bazia]

need teams so when newbs join they have a built in support and community

barrier of entry on red pre-wipe was so insanely fucking high you either had to be a wiz/dru/mag or be handed an epic and fungi

[Bidin]

0 team

[SamwiseRed]

do you guys really want ANOTHER ffa server? sheeez i feel like dumb fuck bill murray on ground hog day. cept i dont get better at eq.

[Stasis01]

Bazia has it right.

[Bazia]

ffa worked out great i agree

[Stasis01]

Nihilum works together - the other side fight with each other/grief lowbies/paranoid as fuck people will just use them as a stepping stone/spy etc etc.

Teams eliminate all of this, and promotes teamwork.

[SamwiseRed]

not even trolling, im more excited than cast with a bottle of adderall.

[aborted]

I don't care either way but if people want teams, why not do teams till 46 then FFA from there.

[runlvlzero]

Samewise makin valid points, maybe odd number teams might be good to break up the pop more.

[SamwiseRed]

cuz at 46 everyone will join nilly?

[Bazia]

Take us to the promised land

[liveitup1216]

If they implement teams, goodbye blue.

[Lurgort/Sseri]

After reading through this rapidly growing thread, I'll agree with the folks who say 3 teams. Splitting everyone among three separate factions is a good way to go about things.

Look at PlanetSide - they have a pretty nicely set up 3-team system. I'm sure the folks in charge here can create something I and everyone else on the server would be glad to log in when we get that hankering for classic EQ and PVP.

It'll most certainly attract new players because FFA PVP servers are intimidating, and therefore new players avoid it.

[SamwiseRed]

aika is this terrible terrible asian mmo i used to play. the only reason i played was because the mass pvp was fucking huge. alot of 100v100v50 fights (5 teams but each team could have 1 ally, the strongest team was not allowed to ally so it was always 2v2v1 teams wise) it was always balanced and fun. the only reason SZ failed was because of the player base. i think this time around shit will be different. if not well fuck it. i guarantee you if 3 teams fails so will 2 teams.

the past 2 years has pretty much been a 2 team server. you have your nillys and your not nillys. sometimes there would be a 2nd or 3rd contender but never for more than a month.

the MAIN problem i see is that with red99, people can make unlimited accounts. on live your account was flagged to the first char you made. if you made an evil char you could only roll evil alts (unless you deleted all your toons) I guess there is no way we can enforce perma team selection but it would be nice.

[Stasis01]

Stale EQ is bunk as shit, fresh servers is where it's at.

Sirken trollen us hard probably - but I've got a partial.

[Bazia]

Sam what team we rolling bro

[liveitup1216]

FFA servers aren't intimidating, they're dumb. At least when people want to xteam and jump ship with hardcoded teams, they gotta reroll.

[liveitup1216]

Sullon rules minus the stupid training/etc would be the bee's knees.

[s1ckness]

FFA

[Bazia]

Stale EQ is bunk as shit, fresh servers is where it's at.

yeah farming fungi #374123 for alts that never get played is tight, I vote 2 more years of that

[SamwiseRed]

rolling good team cuz i already know where nizzarr will be (EVIL)

[Lurgort/Sseri]

FFA servers aren't intimidating, they're dumb. At least when people want to xteam and jump ship with hardcoded teams, they gotta reroll.

I don't know. The blue people I talked to were like, "I wouldn't want to roll there, my PvP skills suck and I'd probably be killed from the get-go from the first player I run across."

I do agree with you though, this would involve a more in-depth thought process for everyone.

[Cid]

Teams won't work unless you find a way to make every class available to each team. The old 4 team system meant no elf or midget team was able to have a shaman or monk, evil team couldn't have a paladin, and the human team got everything.
Two teams seems too imbalanced for EQ but it's the only feasible way for have all classes be available if it's divided by race.
Three teams seem better but it honestly just makes it even easier for one team to take over because if working together against the top team was effective, you probably wouldn't have made this topic to begin with.

You could do it by deity but you'll run into the same problems of class balance. You could allow cross grouping but if you need to do it just to have shamans and monks available, what's the point in making teams?

Just leave it as it is. There's not enough people on Red to even have groups all over of every level group like is being surmised this will accomplish.

[SamwiseRed]

goodies gonna have a hard time holding down gfay with all those damn gnomes and dwarfs running around. Halas will be our safe haven. We will barricade ourselves deep in the fortress of permafrost.

[Stasis01]

Sup Nihilum player Cid

[SamwiseRed]

Teams won't work unless you find a way to make every class available to each team. The old 4 team system meant no elf or midget team was able to have a shaman or monk, evil team couldn't have a paladin, and the human team got everything.

Just leave it as it is. There's not enough people on Red to even have groups all over of every level group like is being surmised this will accomplish.

a paladin couldnt be evil?

no shit sherlock

reminds me of wow when we had shammies and alliance had paladins. i loved that aspect.

[Zeds]

goodies gonna have a hard time holding down gfay with all those damn gnomes and dwarfs running around. Halas will be our safe haven. We will barricade ourselves deep in the fortress of permafrost.

lets do this

[Lurgort/Sseri]

Teams won't work unless you find a way to make every class available to each team. The old 4 team system meant no elf or midget team was able to have a shaman or monk, evil team couldn't have a paladin, and the human team got everything.
Two teams seems too imbalanced for EQ but it's the only feasible way for have all classes be available if it's divided by race.
Three teams seem better but it honestly just makes it even easier for one team to take over because if working together against the top team was effective, you probably wouldn't have made this topic to begin with.

You could do it by deity but you'll run into the same problems of class balance. You could allow cross grouping but if you need to do it just to have shamans and monks available, what's the point in making teams?

Just leave it as it is. There's not enough people on Red to even have groups all over of every level group like is being surmised this will accomplish.


The problem being, there isn't enough people on red. If the server rules changed, MAYBE there will be more people being funneled into the server from the gigantic thing blue has become, when red has imploded basically.

[Robdukes]

3 teams seems best. This way if one team got too large and started monopolizing content the other two could take it down right before turning on each other. Instead of just 2 teams trying to zerg each other they can also be making shaky alliances with the 3rd team, adding a whole other dimension to the battle.

[Loli Pops]

2 teams just like real life and due to low pop

Make it religion based instead of race based good vs evil

[Jepaxis]

Due to a huge inrush of useless 1 liner/poll answers, I'm guessing no one read my post earlier in this thread.

Here it is again:

Having been on VZ and SZ, predefined teams were horrible.

The servers started out lopsided and only continued to get more so. People gravitate towards evils races and/or the largest team on the PvP servers. Plus lighty elves are just all around weak race, so any team stuck with them starts with a disadvantage.

Maybe if you did something like assign players/classes to a team at say 50 and had the server balance out the classes amongst the teams, then things would stay fairly even.

It would be easy to do and keep the server more interesting and balanced. You could even modify the assignment based off which team is dominating in PvP and give the other team(s) a boost by giving them more people on their team to help offset the domination. If the tables turn, the boost goes away or shifts automatically.

Also, your team is your guild, so we don't have people stuck solo and/or in tiny guilds unable to do shit or reason to help their team.

Either way, no matter how ya set up teams, they can't be player chosen. It will just result in a total imbalance. Everyone who was in Nihi would join the same team and large numbers would follow.

[Robdukes]

The problem being, there isn't enough people on red. If the server rules changed, MAYBE there will be more people being funneled into the server from the gigantic thing blue has become, when red has imploded basically.

I think alot of blue players would play a team based red server.

[runlvlzero]

Paladins can be evil, its all in perception. People who straddle good and evil to extremes always work against the interests of others in some way... being evil... or inadvertently good. It happens all the time. Lots of great epic stories written about this.

I prefer that to "immersion". But yeah... this is a choice between MUD or a more interesting and populace server.

Look at WoW blood elf paladins. They actually make sense IMO. But this is getting off topic insofar as teams are concerned its not as big an issue as purists think. Paladins being on evil and necros being on good.

There's also the metagame explanations that all RPers can come up with for being good or evil irregardless of class... DnD was less restrictive in this regard. Death Knights could by on a path to redeeming themselves. Paladins could loose their god granted powers. Necromancers could be seeking to extend life or master life and death, not just domination.

[Stasis01]

No people read it, and chose not to respond.

[Seary]

not even trolling, im more excited than cast with a bottle of adderall.

DAYUM diz wuz a good 1 u gotz me goodz sampal :)




This is what I thought when I saw u droppin bombs on me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z1Krfww5eE

[s1ckness]

FFA unless u have a population like live did to support teams pvp

[SamwiseRed]

Due to a huge inrush of useless 1 liner/poll answers, I'm guessing no one read my post earlier in this thread.

Here it is again:

Having been on VZ and SZ, predefined teams were horrible.

The servers started out lopsided and only continued to get more so. People gravitate towards evils races and the largest team on a PvP servers. Plus lighty elves are just all around weak race, so any team stuck with them starts with a disadvantage.

Maybe if you did something like assign players/classes to a team at say 50 and had the server balance out the classes amongst the teams, then things would stay fairly even.

It would be easy to do and keep the server more interesting and balanced. You could even modify the assignment based off which team is dominating in PvP and give the other team(s) a boost by giving them more people on their team to help offset the domination. If the tables turn, the boost goes away or shifts automatically.

Also, your team is your guild, so we don't have people stuck solo and/or in tiny guilds unable to do shit or reason to help their team.

Either way, no matter how ya set up teams, they can't be player chosen. It will just result in a total imbalance. Everyone who was in Nihi would join the same team and large numbers would follow.

you are basing everything on min/maxing. arzak is a dev for crying out loud, knows all the values and statistics like colgate knows jousting and he STILL rolled a high elf. i dont think everyone in nilly would roll evil, i really dont. think about how much pixels mean to these people. their avatar in game is just as important. Batlle would look like a little bitch as a dark elf and he knows it. pixels are everything my friend.

[Bazia]

shut up nihilum nerds we get it u want nothing chagned

[Jepaxis]

No people read it, and chose not to respond.Probably true. People tend to ignore the sensible on PvP servers. :p

[SamwiseRed]

wanna be an evil paladin?

then roll an shadow knight genius.

[liveitup1216]

Leave the class restrictions as is. You wanna zerg evil? Then you get no paladins rangers and druids.

Good/neutrals get no shadowknight/necromancer.

I assure you a good number of people would come from blue/etc. It won't be staggering, but more than this cesspool is now.

[Knuckle]

Problem with teams servers is we have 10% the population of live

[SamwiseRed]

Problem with teams servers is we have 10% the population of live

pretty sure thats an even bigger problem with ffa.

[Jepaxis]

you are basing everything on min/maxing. arzak is a dev for crying out loud, knows all the values and statistics like colgate knows jousting and he STILL rolled a high elf. i dont think everyone in nilly would roll evil, i really dont. think about how much pixels mean to these people. their avatar in game is just as important. Batlle would look like a little bitch as a dark elf and he knows it. pixels are everything my friend.
I didn't say all Nihi would roll evil, but it's very likely they will all roll on the same team if they get to choose their team.

My ideas are just meant to eliminate the largest flaw in team based PvP servers.

When on SZ, evils were the obvious choice though. Evil contained all the best PvP and PvE classes. Lights got screwed with no necros or SKs. So what ended up happening was there was 1 very strong team, 1 strongish team and 1 whooping boy team. People eventually left the latter team for another team(usually evil) or just quit.

It reached a point where my guild wouldn't even bother to PvP the lights because of pitty or lack of challenge.

[Glorindale]

I like 3 teams based on alignment of course.

[SamwiseRed]

teams are to eliminate the largest flaw with ffa.

[KB_Trader]

I'm 100% down for 3 teams, but not sure the population would support it. Even if pop jumps to 250 at peak times, that's only 83ish people on each team divided up across however many zones. Now, if 2 boxing were legal I would jizz all over this server, but I don't think there's enough population for 3 teams as is.

[SamwiseRed]

can we really use population as a con? can we get a nilly dkp list plz. need to prove a point.

[Seary]

Whats the point of a thread like this unless there is an agenda for another server? Or is it just another Amelinda-style thread where ideas get batted around for 6 months until the thread is put out to pasture? Maybe Rogean demands that the GMs get a certain amount of page views in their respective forums every month like a cop needing to get enough tickets...

Regardless, whatever the makeup of the server is, I'd play on Nizzarrs team (side) because you cannot compete with something that has no outside world communication that it is almost like playing with the undead. Once you get Battle, Tune, and the other 350 days /played crew up there, it's pretty much a lock at them recruiting a zerg and despite thousands of deaths to players, they will still acquire pixels.

[Stasis01]

If the box sucks the pop won't grow - like it is now. TZ ruled.

[KB_Trader]

Also, the team thing should be handled in a innovative way instead of the old mantra of "SHIT AINT CLASSIC." The shit ppl can do with eqemu is REALLY impressive so I know it wouldn't be difficult to set up some sort of system to assist in team balance. Someone mentioned Planetside 2 - I only played the sequel very briefly, but the first game had a system in place that granted the team with a lower population various bonuses. Something like that would be cool - a scaling xp/drop bonus based on the percentage of the population that each team has. Say the evil team has 100 people on, news have 70, and goods have 50 - evil would get no bonus, newts would get a small bonus, and goods would get a fairly substantial bonus.

[HeisChuck]

Whats the point of a thread like this unless there is an agenda for another server? Or is it just another Amelinda-style thread where ideas get batted around for 6 months until the thread is put out to pasture? Maybe Rogean demands that the GMs get a certain amount of page views in their respective forums every month like a cop needing to get enough tickets...

Regardless, whatever the makeup of the server is, I'd play on Nizzarrs team (side) because you cannot compete with something that has no outside world communication that it is almost like playing with the undead. Once you get Battle, Tune, and the other 350 days /played crew up there, it's pretty much a lock at them recruiting a zerg and despite thousands of deaths to players, they will still acquire pixels.

http://www.crushable.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Paul-Walker-Laughing.gif

[SamwiseRed]

would be cool to have team based ooc instead of global. got some ideas that would immerse the immersible.

[Seary]

Inside sources are telling me that the R99 database went poof on Rogean, please see my RnF thread regarding this and why it is good for the server (though maybe not the 5 pixel kings in Nilly).


*also chuck dont try to suck up, we're on the skids.

[KB_Trader]

Inside sources are telling me that the R99 database went poof on Rogean, please see my RnF thread regarding this and why it is good for the server (though maybe not the 5 pixel kings in Nilly).


*also chuck dont try to suck up, we're on the skids.

Christmas has come early, folks.

[liveitup1216]

Was just talking to Germanic earlier about stuff like this. I'm ready to abandon my bluebie shell.

[Lurgort/Sseri]

Also, the team thing should be handled in a innovative way instead of the old mantra of "SHIT AINT CLASSIC." The shit ppl can do with eqemu is REALLY impressive so I know it wouldn't be difficult to set up some sort of system to assist in team balance. Someone mentioned Planetside 2 - I only played the sequel very briefly, but the first game had a system in place that granted the team with a lower population various bonuses. Something like that would be cool - a scaling xp/drop bonus based on the percentage of the population that each team has. Say the evil team has 100 people on, news have 70, and goods have 50 - evil would get no bonus, newts would get a small bonus, and goods would get a fairly substantial bonus.

Yeah, I mentioned PlanetSide - I played the crap out of the first game and have CR5s on all three empires. PS2, I didn't get into.

Totally agree with what you say here, bud.

[runlvlzero]

wanna be an evil paladin?

then roll an shadow knight genius.

What if I want to be a good Shadowknight? Were do I get a pet!

I get u. But I also get me.

[Potus]

2 teams are worse than 0 teams, because at least with 0 teams you have the possibility of guilds ganging up against the uberguild that is ruining the server. With 2 teams you prevent that from happening because people are far less likely to reroll.

3 teams is fantastic because you can have 2 teams ganging up against whatever team gets too big for itself. 4 teams seems to just encourage crossteaming and invulnerable healing. Vallon Zek held off on it for as long as possible, to the neglect of the evil side.

[Bazia]

im rock hard

[Glorindale]

What if I want to be a good Shadowknight? Were do I get a pet!

I get u. But I also get me.

SKs are evil by definition. A "good" SK would be horrible.

[SamwiseRed]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mc18dfjChT1r0ftodo1_400.gif

[Seary]

http://i.imgur.com/CIXSHnW.jpg

[Stasis01]

^^^^^^^^^^

[KB_Trader]

http://i.imgur.com/CIXSHnW.jpg

CAN I GET AN AMEN?

[HeisChuck]

forums are thriving

[Nizzarr]

My guild(Ruin) went on sullon zek as evils because we wanted ogre warriors. Little did we know that everybody and their mother joined evils as well.

Team evil ended up with ~10 or so starting guild, team newt with ~3 and team good had little to no guild support at the beginning. Team newt was like the classic of this server, they took shit the evils left up. They didnt contest shit and when they did they got obliterated. Goodies were total non-factor for the longest time(probably for the whole duration of the server).

So from my personal experience, teams arent that good of an idea. One side will clearly take over the raid scene, and it will make the other team(s) join them up instead of fighting.

Teams cant really work with free emu accounts because people can make unkillable spies and other atrocities that were rarely seen on live. You'd also have to make it so you can only make one character per account? or something.

If you're really set on making a team server, I'd say the sullon zek ruleset is what you're looking for though. No rules on training(except same faction zone disruption). No level restrictions on pvp. Yellow text for in-range killing. three teams, deity based but every races/classes can choose any deity.

I wouldnt expect it to be succesful past the first 3 months though.

[Eazzy]

scrub nub here, will immediately play if 3 team or wipe

[raka]

you can use a full bottle of Kraft thick n spicy brown sugar bbq sauce like a fleshlight. It is at least one and one third times more satisfying.

[SamwiseRed]

wipe imminent. chuck about to set up shop.

[skacat]

There is absolutely zero chance the DB is gone. At worst, they would have to restore a backup from X days/weeks ago. Give it up

[KB_Trader]

Yeah I had no idea this many old school ppl regularly posted. Rexx, Knuckle, Stasis, etc etc etc

[Not_Kazowi]

Best thing for this server would be a fresh start. This server started off on the wrong foot in several ways back in 2011. A wipe would bring new blood and an equal playing field. No matter who you were before the wipe, it will be a lot more fun post wipe. I have been on both sides of it so i understand.

Teams sounds like it would cause a lot of problems in an already problem filled game. Just leave it FFA. Teams = Guilds

[Tradesonred]

I like 0 teams because then things are more fluid, more sandboxy. If you dislike most people in guilds on your team doing content then youre stuck there.

Without a system where you cant create anymore characters on a side if one side gets too powerful, i think its hard to devise something that has balance.

Even then, you have people who created characters but not playing anymore, it gets messy.

Teams = Guilds

[SamwiseRed]

My guild(Ruin) went on sullon zek as evils because we wanted ogre warriors. Little did we know that everybody and their mother joined evils as well.

Team evil ended up with ~10 or so starting guild, team newt with ~3 and team good had little to no guild support at the beginning. Team newt was like the classic of this server, they took shit the evils left up. They didnt contest shit and when they did they got obliterated. Goodies were total non-factor for the longest time(probably for the whole duration of the server).

So from my personal experience, teams arent that good of an idea. One side will clearly take over the raid scene, and it will make the other team(s) join them up instead of fighting.

Teams cant really work with free emu accounts because people can make unkillable spies and other atrocities that were rarely seen on live. You'd also have to make it so you can only make one character per account? or something.

If you're really set on making a team server, I'd say the sullon zek ruleset is what you're looking for though. No rules on training(except same faction zone disruption). No level restrictions on pvp. Yellow text for in-range killing. three teams, deity based but every races/classes can choose any deity.

I wouldnt expect it to be succesful past the first 3 months though.

yup one toon per account like FV i think. i had to delete my 24 halfling druid (newt) to reroll evil. shit was legit.

[Seary]

Hey Duke Niz, I've grown to respect and admire your dedication to EQ over the past 18 months, but can you be real with me for a moment and tell me your estimated /played time on all used characters during your time on Red?

If we say the server has been up for 615 real days, would you estimate your /played at 250 or more days?

[HeisChuck]

My guild(Ruin) went on sullon zek as evils because we wanted ogre warriors. Little did we know that everybody and their mother joined evils as well.

Team evil ended up with ~10 or so starting guild, team newt with ~3 and team good had little to no guild support at the beginning. Team newt was like the classic of this server, they took shit the evils left up. They didnt contest shit and when they did they got obliterated. Goodies were total non-factor for the longest time(probably for the whole duration of the server).

So from my personal experience, teams arent that good of an idea. One side will clearly take over the raid scene, and it will make the other team(s) join them up instead of fighting.

Teams cant really work with free emu accounts because people can make unkillable spies and other atrocities that were rarely seen on live. You'd also have to make it so you can only make one character per account? or something.

If you're really set on making a team server, I'd say the sullon zek ruleset is what you're looking for though. No rules on training(except same faction zone disruption). No level restrictions on pvp. Yellow text for in-range killing. three teams, deity based but every races/classes can choose any deity.

I wouldnt expect it to be succesful past the first 3 months though.

what do you think your combined everquest playtime is from live/blue99/red99....... over/under 1800 days /played ??

[Faerie]

I don't know if we're talking a brand new server or implementing teams here, but...

2 teams would be beneficial in that it would cut down a HUGE amount on pvp. Don't call me blue; this would be good for the server. More bluebies coming over, more exping, more friends. Fewer enemies sure, but enough around to make things fun. 2 teams wouldn't do as much to break Nihilum up though, if the devs are wanting to put the teams on the current server. I could see Nihilum using their multiple characters to raid content on both teams, and the server pretty much becoming Nihilum vs. server all over again.

3 teams makes the most sense to me (as much as I'd like 4...), and nothing weird like barbarians on evil team. SZ teams make RP sense, and maybe agnostics should have their team decided by their race. 3 > 2 because it allows for more crazy politics. This would do more to break up Nihilum, and we would have a bit more pvp this way. But I think the devs should get creative about this, if they have the time and ability to do some coding.

Since evil team has their advantages (big races, more race/class combinations), it'd be cool if they could attack their own team. And in a similar vein, I think good/neutral teams should be able to group and cast beneficial spells on one another only while grouped. People may cry about immy healing and such, but I think this would allow for some very interesting situations, which is why I play pvp EQ in the first place. And this way, it's kinda like having 2 teams, just lots more fun :P

[Potus]

I am for a Sullon Zek revamp because it's been prophesied that Fansy will return.

[SamwiseRed]

anyone who rolls a dark elf has no self respect.

[Seary]

ROFL the princess dropping trolls all over this thread, it took me about 2 sentences before I caught on.

LOL @ wanting to remove MORE pvp from a dead pvp server!! ohhh princess!!!

[Zeds]

I am for a Sullon Zek revamp because it's been prophesied that Fansy will return.

100% this

[Tradesonred]

ROFL the princess dropping trolls all over this thread, it took me about 2 sentences before I caught on.

LOL @ wanting to remove MORE pvp from a dead pvp server!! ohhh princess!!!

My money is on shes a Sony shill trying to make sure this server never really takes off

/tinfoilhat off

[liveitup1216]

Anybody have Kirban on speedd dial?

[SamwiseRed]

I had a dark elf war on rallos but never went beyond nektulos east commons

classic

i plan on rolling a weak ass good combo just to be an even worse eq player.

[SamwiseRed]

Anybody have Kirban on speedd dial?

no but i can pm. no manaburn, no kirban i expect. :)

[Giovanni]

Two teams. If you have three teams the one in the middle gets sandwiched on both sides and can never beat the first.

[runlvlzero]

But I think the devs should get creative about this, if they have the time and ability to do some coding.

Well hopefully their interested, thats why they are looking for our creative input which I have given.

Also, I prefer to be griefed by reds in a red way, rather than blues in a blue way. Like straight up killed, cc'd rather than having to watch as OOR people gank every mob in the zone because they invested 10x more hrs than me.

Server needs to be more red IMO and less blue.

[runlvlzero]

My money is on shes a Sony shill trying to make sure this server never really takes off

/tinfoilhat off

ouch lol

[liveitup1216]

no but i can pm. no manaburn, no kirban i expect. :)

You saddened me by not acknowledging my wordplay. I'll still roll with you though.

[heartbrand]

Literally didn't read anything other than page one, but I kinda hope it does get wiped because it will be the last thing left for me to completely detox, immersion already all time low, a wipe will finally get me to uninstall.

Also 0 teams because it makes no difference zergs gonna zerg and just preplan what team to go to.

[Bazia]

let freedom ring

[Faerie]

ROFL the princess dropping trolls all over this thread, it took me about 2 sentences before I caught on.

LOL @ wanting to remove MORE pvp from a dead pvp server!! ohhh princess!!!

Princess is not playing :)

[SamwiseRed]

Literally didn't read anything other than page one, but I kinda hope it does get wiped because it will be the last thing left for me to completely detox, immersion already all time low, a wipe will finally get me to uninstall.

Also 0 teams because it makes no difference zergs gonna zerg and just preplan what team to go to.

sounds like it would be good for you honestly. i wish you the best brother.

[KB_Trader]

Currently planning out my chars on a dirty Denny's napkin FUK YEAH

[filthyphil]

3 teams, no grouping or beneficial spells can be between teams.

[Faerie]

Server needs to be more red IMO and less blue.

As much as I hate to say it, less pvp would be good for the population. Or, not even less pvp, but MORE safety. Red plays so hard they end up griefing people off of the server, and if we had people that we could only blue it up with I bet we'd see more exp groups and stuff.

[liveitup1216]

3 teams, no grouping or beneficial spells can be between teams.


Evil: Ogres/Trolls/Iksar/Human

Otherguys: Erudite/High Elf/Half Elf/Human

Good: Dwarf/Gnome/Halfling/Human


I'm sure someone can & will tell me why this wouldn't work ;)

Just use the Sullon deity model. No agnostics, added deities for some race/class combo's.

[SamwiseRed]

3 teams, no grouping or beneficial spells can be between teams.


Evil: Ogres/Trolls/Iksar/Erudite/Human

Otherguys: Erudite/High Elf/Half Elf/Halfling/Human

Good: Dwarf/Gnome/Halfling/Barbarian/Human


I'm sure someone can & will tell me why this wouldn't work, didn't take into account how relegions or continents would play into it.

seriously? would you guys quit trying to make your own teams, its just pitiful.

highselves arent good? lul most of them follow tunare one of the GOOD gods. dwarves/gnomes/halfling are generally neutral in every game/movie/anything really. why are erudites evil? oh cuz they black ofc.

just stop man. please.

[SamwiseRed]

The Sullon Zek Server (Deity based team PvP)

The Sullon Zek server is a new server with a new rule set. The rules for this server are very different than those on any other EverQuest server. In general the server is based on the concept of a PvP teams server, like Tallon and Vallon Zek, but with the teams chosen based on which god the character worships rather than the race of the character.

Sullon Zek rules:

1. Player v. Player (PvP) combat can occur between any characters that are not on the same team, regardless of level. A level 50 character can attack and kill a level 6 character if that character is not a member of his alliance. But rules 2 and 3 apply.

2. Characters will be immune to PvP combat until they have gained enough strength to survive the struggle. Characters below 6th level are not able to participate in PvP combat, unless they stray from city and newbie zones. As soon as a character 'dings' into 6th level he or she will become PvP enabled.

3. Characters will lose experience when killed in PvP combat if the character that killed them is within 5 levels. The amount of experience lost will be the same amount that is lost if that character is killed by an NPC. Your corpse can be resurrected by a cleric to partially restore lost experience.

4. Characters will only be able to loot coins from other characters, and then only if the victim was within 5 levels of the killer. Only the character getting the killing blow will be able to loot the corpse.

5. Players may only have one character at a time on this server. This means that you will have to delete the existing character in order to create a new one. Because we are introducing a new class and a new race with the release of Shadows of Luclin we plan to make allowances at that time for those that wish to explore these new characters.

6. Characters will not be able to group with anyone that is not on their Deity Team.

7. Characters will not be able to invite someone to join their guild that is not on their Deity Team.

8. Combat skills' effective value is capped at 2 levels above a players current level.

9. Resistance debuff spells have a 50% increased effectiveness against player characters.

10. /consider returns only three kinds of results when used against player characters. 'Green' means that the character is below your range. 'White' or 'black' means that the character is within your range. 'Red' means that they are above your range. 'In range' means +/- 5 levels.

11. /consider will also display a message indicating what team the target is on. Members of your own team will be displayed as an 'ally'.

12. Faction hits for PvP will be taken for killing characters within their racial home towns. Killing a human in any human starting city will cause a faction loss with the locals. Freeport, Qeynos and Surefall Glade are considered starting cities for humans. All of Greater Faydark and Felwithe are considered the starting city for all elves (high elves and wood elves), except dark elves. Paineel and Erudin are both starting cities for erudites, and killing one in either city (regardless of their place of origin) will result in a faction loss with that city. Other cities are not considered home towns, despite being run and controlled by a certain race. For example, HighHold is not a human home town. Thurgadin is not a dwarven home town.

13. Rules such as the Play Nice Policy do not apply to this server. Characters have the ability on this server to deal with their conflicts through combat. Causing experience loss by 'training' NPCs on other characters is not an offense that would warrant a warning this server. HOWEVER: All rules regarding general decency still apply. Cursing, threats and other such things will be dealt with sternly, and are still unacceptable behavior on any PvP server.

14. Beneficial effects can not be used on members of another team.

15. No character will be able to bind in dungeon zones.

16. 'Buff' spells will not affect characters more than 20 levels lower than the spell level. Existing spell restrictions on spells over 50th level will supercede this rule.

17. There will be 'insignia' dropped on the corpses of characters over 20th level that are killed by another character. We plan to allow those to be turned in for a reward of some sort. What that reward will be is undetermined at this time, but we are leaning towards a team reward rather than a personal reward.

18. Naked corpses will disappear when looted by a player character. If you are naked and killed by a player character, your corpse will disappear when it is looted.

The 'Teams':

The Good Alliance consists of: Erollisi Marr, Mithaniel Marr, Rodcet Nife, Quellious, Tunare
The Evil Alliance consists of: Bertoxxulous, Cazic Thule, Innoruuk, Rallos Zek
The Neutral Alliance consists of: Brell Serilis, Bristlebane, Karana, Prexus, Solusek Ro, The Tribunal, Veeshan.

There are no Agnostics on Sullon Zek. With the new influence of the gods, those that had not declared for one deity or another have been killed. Everyone now worships a deity, if not out of respect, love or fear of the god, then out of fear for their lives at the hands of fanatics.
Barbarian Shaman and Warriors can choose to worship Mithaniel Marr. Mithaniel Marr was unwilling to abandon all of the noble barbarians that served the good, and many declared themselves in favor of an alliance with Good.
Monks will be able to worship Veeshan. The Temple in Qeynos has discovered some ancient writings that opened up new avenues.
We will be including a method for the Good and Neutral teams to use Summon Corpse or something similar.

[Tune]

why are you asking about teams anyway

[Tradesonred]

Literally didn't read anything other than page one, but I kinda hope it does get wiped because it will be the last thing left for me to completely detox, immersion already all time low, a wipe will finally get me to uninstall.

Also 0 teams because it makes no difference zergs gonna zerg and just preplan what team to go to.

Zergs will always matter, but without xp loss, it would be a totally different experience, i guarantee that.

That is, if the server can reach a minimum of pop that makes smaller crews viable. Of course if 50 people play and you got 35 people in the zerg, thats not going to happen.

With that minimal pop attained, you can have ghetto eve online politics where 2-3 smaller guilds agree to join forces for a tactical advantage (TM) either on a regular basis or in a timely manner, like to fuck up a particular raid on a particular night.

It did not happen on Red99 because you could not motivate people to get more than one or two hits of xp loss before they gave up. So things never really got a chance to heat up where the zerg batphones for backup and the smaller crews batphone for backup and it culminates in some huge pixel gank orgy gameplay experience. Sorry got a bit carried away there.

This kind of fluidity in team setup, you will not get with set in stone, hard coded teams. Well less of it, anyway. To see the kind of damage i think zergs have done to this server, i think we need FFA if server gets rebooted.

[Stasis01]

Sry tune.

[heartbrand]

Are people really debating teams on a 150 player box? You guys think there's hundreds of hidden players out there waiting for a teams server? You think this won't just be another zerg fest? We're really discussing this when resists are still broken 2 years later? Lol?

Let prophet HB tell you how this one will play out. Week 1 huge numbers 400-600 players having a blast. Week 2, down to the 350 range. Week 3 heading into the 200's during daytime. Week 4 peaking @ 200 during prime time. Week 8, one zerg guild had taken over by this point, pop barely hanging onto triple digits primetime. GG. The pop on red is low because 1) not enough people care about red99 on planet earth, 2) resists are awful, 3) boxing isn't allowed so you need to guild with tons of people you normally wouldn't play with in order to accomplish things, 4) the VZTZ crowd is the worst group of sociopaths to ever play a MMO.

[Faerie]

If training is legal I'm not playing, though :P

But yes, the teams are pretty much decided at this point, they just seem to be torn on the issue of merging good/neutral.

[Mittens Romney]

On the old teams servers could any player from one team attack another regardless of level?

[Stasis01]

Inc HB lawyering to explain why anything other than free static mob uncontested dragons for Nihilum won't work.

[runlvlzero]

seriously? would you guys quit trying to make your own teams, its just pitiful.

highselves arent good? lul most of them follow tunare one of the GOOD gods. dwarves/gnomes/halfling are generally neutral in every game/movie/anything really. why are erudites evil? oh cuz they black ofc.

just stop man. please.

Erudites are mostly Neutral and Evil.

Even Prexus and Quellious are fairly neutral gods. Quellious being slightly more good because of her pacifistic (she's not 100% pacifist) ways.

Solusek is the most "good god" they worship. And he's only good in a wrathful stomp the shit out of all the evil gods way.

In fact theres a lot of room in the lore for Prexus and Solusek worshippers to be straight up evil A-Holes to everyone not of their faith... Very Umberlee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umberlee) like.

Also Erudite paladins were "Neutrals" on SZ

[KB_Trader]

why are you asking about teams anyway

This is the single best post in this entire thread. You can literally see the sweat beading on his forehead.

[HeisChuck]

This is the single best post in this entire thread. You can literally see the sweat beading on his forehead.

lololololol

[SamwiseRed]

so being from paineel means you are the evil of the evil?

[filthyphil]

seriously? would you guys quit trying to make your own teams, its just pitiful.

highselves arent good? lul most of them follow tunare one of the GOOD gods. dwarves/gnomes/halfling are generally neutral in every game/movie/anything really. why are erudites evil? oh cuz they black ofc.

just stop man. please.


You quoted me before I could even edit the post, I am high, and after one read over I realized all the errors I made and deleted the suggested teams. But to answer you're questions, yes "highselves" are good. And yes erudites would be evil because they are in fact Odus Antonicans.

[SamwiseRed]

lol

[liveitup1216]

If training is legal I'm not playing, though :P

But yes, the teams are pretty much decided at this point, they just seem to be torn on the issue of merging good/neutral.

I wouldn't merge them. This player base is far different than the original live SZ. I feel 3 teams could work here. And if it doesn't you'd still have a better setup than FFA xteam/oor fest red is now. Also yes leave the training/etc part out, that's what destroyed Sullon too.

[Seary]

why are you asking about teams anyway

It's all starting to sink in for our ole pal Tune here... all those pixels, all that time...

his mind is racing, hes pacing, hes going to lose it!!

[Faerie]

Zergs will always matter, but without xp loss, it would be a totally different experience, i guarantee that.

That is, if the server can reach a minimum of pop that makes smaller crews viable. Of course if 50 people play and you got 35 people in the zerg, thats not going to happen.

With that minimal pop attained, you can have ghetto eve online politics where 2-3 smaller guilds agree to join forces for a tactical advantage (TM) either on a regular basis or in a timely manner, like to fuck up a particular raid on a particular night.

It did not happen on Red99 because you could not motivate people to get more than one or two hits of xp loss before they gave up. So things never really got a chance to heat up where the zergs batphone for backups and the smaller crews batphone for backup and it culminates in some huge pixel gank orgy gameplay experience. Sorry got a bit carried away there.

This kind of fluidity in team setup, you will not get with set in stone, hard coded teams. Well less of it, anyway. To see the kind of damage i think zergs have done to this server, i think we need FFA if server gets rebooted.

Don't be lame; teams are awesome.

Are people really debating teams on a 150 player box? You guys think there's hundreds of hidden players out there waiting for a teams server? You think this won't just be another zerg fest? We're really discussing this when resists are still broken 2 years later? Lol?

Let prophet HB tell you how this one will play out. Week 1 huge numbers 400-600 players having a blast. Week 2, down to the 350 range. Week 3 heading into the 200's during daytime. Week 4 peaking @ 200 during prime time. Week 8, one zerg guild had taken over by this point, pop barely hanging onto triple digits primetime. GG. The pop on red is low because 1) not enough people care about red99 on planet earth, 2) resists are awful, 3) boxing isn't allowed so you need to guild with tons of people you normally wouldn't play with in order to accomplish things, 4) the VZTZ crowd is the worst group of sociopaths to ever play a MMO.

Why wouldn't teams increase the pop some? I could see more bluebies joining us because of the increased level of safety, and a few people that don't play Red99 are already showing interest in this thread.

[Colgate]

This is the single best post in this entire thread. You can literally see the sweat beading on his forehead.

LOL

[HeisChuck]

tunes been farming those pelts in overthere for 4 hours a day for a few months my sources tell me

what a fucking FREAK

[KB_Trader]

Watching Tune is like watching a junkie wake up after payday. This is glorious.

[Colgate]

tunes been farming those pelts in overthere for 4 hours a day for a few months my sources tell me

what a fucking FREAK

since at least january when i started logging in again

[Sarius]

I think 4 teams would be best. As stated previously elves, humans/barbs, evil, shorties. I would defiantly roll a char on red if this were the case.

[runlvlzero]

so being from paineel means you are the evil of the evil?

Actually yes, Cazic and Inno are about the most hated and feared, and the Paineel erudites want domination over everything in the most tyrannical way and are willing to stop at nothing to get it. Hence Paineel. They don't consider their actions and even if Paineel wasn't their fault they still were a party to it and have no remorse. Innoruuk worshipers don't mind the servitude of other worshippers. Cazic worshippers just want everyone to fear them and acknowledge them as #1 badasses. Inno lawful evil, Cazic straight up Chaotic Evil. Only might makes right.

Talkin ruins of old Paineel here. The hole.

The other erudites are too much like vulcans and completely uncarring about things like Kerrans and the savage races who are too easily swayed by "good and evil".

They even wage their own genocidal stuff in lore against Kerrans etc... because theres no place for them in their enlightened world.

Seems pretty evil to me.

[Technique]

Imposed teams are a bad concept for an MMO.

If you're not okay with being alone, yet too dysfunctional to fit in with a group/guild, then too bad. Rules dictating that you must be tolerated by anyone unfortunate enough to belong to the same team is a harsh constraint on player agency.

The sheer amount of hardcoded handholding that some of the self-described "red as fuck" PvPers on this server are in support of is just laughable.

[Tune]

lol so much mad n bad

i am flattered w/ all the attention though, thank you

seriously teams are stupid , same end result

[Colgate]

calls people mad, floods me with tells in-game telling me i'll be banned for hacking

o k a y

[SamwiseRed]

damn soldier, you sound kinda invested. sup man?

[Tune]

colgates immersion is frightening, < 1 minute response

[liveitup1216]

I don't feel like going back but basically the guy who said FFA is better because he wants to be able to attack anybody is a big reason why red is dead. Teams will give some structure to this cesspool.

[Zihm]

The teams don't have to be good versus evil. Just divide the classes up evenly, even if it means putting seemingly random races together. If people are tired of "stale" EQ this shouldn't be too disconcerting for people. Ogres and dwarves on the same team, for example, would be an interesting element. You'd be attacked by NPCs of that race, most likely, but you'd be able to group with one another. Like two enemies that have come together to work against a common enemy (like Horde and Alliance working together against the Burning Legion, for instance).

In a FFA system, ogres and dwarves (to use the same example) can group together without reconciling this. Or we could just make up some shitty backstory to justify it and boom, total immersion.

The good vs. evil thing is just another stale element of the game.

[STILLnotMORNIN]

Are people really debating teams on a 150 player box? You guys think there's hundreds of hidden players out there waiting for a teams server? You think this won't just be another zerg fest? We're really discussing this when resists are still broken 2 years later? Lol?

Let prophet HB tell you how this one will play out. Week 1 huge numbers 400-600 players having a blast. Week 2, down to the 350 range. Week 3 heading into the 200's during daytime. Week 4 peaking @ 200 during prime time. Week 8, one zerg guild had taken over by this point, pop barely hanging onto triple digits primetime. GG. The pop on red is low because 1) not enough people care about red99 on planet earth, 2) resists are awful, 3) boxing isn't allowed so you need to guild with tons of people you normally wouldn't play with in order to accomplish things, 4) the VZTZ crowd is the worst group of sociopaths to ever play a MMO.

tldr

LOL this novel writer is currently trying to convince another thread that hes not one of the immersed ones.

[Bazia]

pras teams and pras wipe

rogean has smiled upon us again

[Tradesonred]

Are we really speculating that server might get rebooted?

Heres my dream server:

- FFA 4 levels, at all levels.

- Item loot, one item, no weapons or slot at the bottom, only the stuff thats unbagged.

- No xp loss

- One time dev effort to automatize an event like the halloween event of 2001 on Rallos where people are allowed to loot no drop gear to offset the harshness of item loot. Once its done, it can be turned on by a GM at will i assume.

- A little more effort would be to patch in a set of moderatly powerful no drop gear in a couple of events over the map. One low tier, say level 15 ish mobs, One mid tier, say level 30-35ish mobs and maybe top tier, 50ish, but maybe raid loot covers that.

-------

If devs still think item loot would be too harsh, second best option to me would be to patch in a voluntary system of flagging for people who want to add spice to their pvp. Like you hail a NPC, it flags you for a week, you are not able to unflag yourself for a week. You can now loot and be looted by other people who also flagged themselves. DMG % must be attained by flagged characters before looting is allowed, to prevent exploiting. To be tweaked by people with more experience in EQ than me.

[Rikimeru]

2 teams

[SamwiseRed]

2 teams

bitch better not join nilly this time.

[SamwiseRed]

could imagine myself now, playing with people like Xico, or BulletproofX and, having to call them... my team? lol

mobs will take care of them, dont worry about it

[runlvlzero]

The good vs. evil thing is just another stale element of the game.

Indeed good and evil is all a matter of perspective and there is not much that can be considered wholey one or the other...

Sacrifice... both good and evil versions
Loyalty... both good and evil versions
Mercy... lol (how many times have you seen mercy end in great evil in tragedies and drama?) (Or RL for that matter =/)
Love...

Everything has its positive and negative attributes and can be altruistic or vile.

Even hatred and vengeance. Its peoples irreconciliation of these attributes that leads to bad things.

[Junkman]

wtf scrolled through all this and not one gm response DISAPPOINTED

[Giovanni]

Nizzar has already stated that he would go evil.

I will go neutral (if 3 teams) or neutral/good (if two teams).

[runlvlzero]

could imagine myself now, playing with people like Xico, or BulletproofX and, having to call them... my team? lol

Lol we def need a team Salem just for him.

[Faerie]

Indeed good and evil is all a matter of perspective and there is not much that can be considered wholey one or the other...

Sacrifice... both good and evil versions
Loyalty... both good and evil versions
Mercy... lol (how many times have you seen mercy end in great evil in tragedies and drama?) (Or RL for that matter =/)
Love...

Everything has its positive and negative attributes and can be altruistic or vile.

Even hatred and vengeance. Its peoples irreconciliation of these attributes that leads to bad things.

We could talk pseudophilosophy until everything is literally meaningless (I've done it a bunch, can be fun), but SZ teams are the only ones that really make the most sense. VZ teams could be awesome too, but 4 is kinda pushing it with our population.

[runlvlzero]

We could talk pseudophilosophy until everything is literally meaningless (I've done it a bunch, can be fun), but SZ teams are the only ones that really make the most sense. VZ teams could be awesome too, but 4 is kinda pushing it with our population.

Agreed

[Faerie]

could imagine myself now, playing with people like Xico, or BulletproofX and, having to call them... my team? lol

Having one team (evil) able to attack their own team would allow for players to experience FFA even on a teams server, if they really want it that badly.

[Mittens Romney]

I think teams would be fun if there was no level limit to who you could attack. Otherwise OOR healing would be a major problem.
I like the idea of zone control fights and raiding an enemy teams home towns. Pvp battles at the end game for raid mobs would be massive.
There would be a huge problem with trains. Unless there was a constant GM presence on the server having rules against anything other than hacking/boxing would wreck a lot of the fun because everyone would cry about soandso training and no one enforcing the rules.

[liveitup1216]

Having one team (evil) able to attack their own team would allow for players to experience FFA even on a teams server, if they really want it that badly.

Or they could just rage quit and go back to catching squirrels and setting them on fire while red picks back up.

[Danien]

3 teams.

Keeps things interesting when it's not just us vs them, even though one team is almost certainly going to be vastly inferior.

Biggest reason for going teams is people get a built in community whom they can work with. You know who your allies are, and whom you are supposed to attack.

FFA attracts a certain kind of crowd, all of which we probably have absorbed up to this point. People don't attack others because they don't want to alienate them as potential allies, or don't want to exploit situations (killing low hp people and what not) because they feel like total assholes. However if those players are on opposing teams it would feel natural to attack them, it's what you're supposed to do.

I think teams have a larger potential playerbase then ffa.

[Faerie]

This is gonna be so great! :)

[SamwiseRed]

is eq browser had teams, id hit it.

[Tradesonred]

I think teams would be fun if there was no level limit to who you could attack. Otherwise OOR healing would be a major problem.
I like the idea of zone control fights and raiding an enemy teams home towns. Pvp battles at the end game for raid mobs would be massive.
There would be a huge problem with trains. Unless there was a constant GM presence on the server having rules against anything other than hacking/boxing would wreck a lot of the fun because everyone would cry about soandso training and no one enforcing the rules.

This was totally fun in WoW, before they patched in battlegrounds. It ranks on my top5 MMO experience, when we sat 50 hordes in Kings room in Undead city, defeding it against about 100 alliance players trying to gank him.

Also enjoyed a Dalaran raid (an alliance city) where 10 warlocks ported us at the bottom of a pool, where we had all been waterbreathed first. We came out of the pool like 40 of us Braveheart style AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

I could totally see a custom raid boss spawning inside a city for an event. But you could also do this on a FFA server.

It would not take much to design events, in my mind, that would create loads of fun for players, making them tear other to pieces for hours on end. Just design the event once, and then just have a GM flip the switch once in a while.

At least i assume its that easy, maybe its not.

[liveitup1216]

Teams is a retarded as fuck idea.

Stop posting in this thread faggots

Can't imagine why your server is dead.

[mugien]

People don't attack others because they don't want to alienate them as potential allies, or don't want to exploit situations (killing low hp people and what not) because they feel like total assholes. However if those players are on opposing teams it would feel natural to attack them, it's what you're supposed to do.

Great point right here.

[Mittens Romney]

I am leaning towards two teams. With three teams its to easy to fall into a gross imbalance.

[SamwiseRed]

gross imbalance, you should play red99

[Faerie]

2 teams is too boring.

[Tradesonred]

3 teams.

Keeps things interesting when it's not just us vs them, even though one team is almost certainly going to be vastly inferior.

Biggest reason for going teams is people get a built in community whom they can work with. You know who your allies are, and whom you are supposed to attack.

FFA attracts a certain kind of crowd, all of which we probably have absorbed up to this point. People don't attack others because they don't want to alienate them as potential allies, or don't want to exploit situations (killing low hp people and what not) because they feel like total assholes. However if those players are on opposing teams it would feel natural to attack them, it's what you're supposed to do.

I think teams have a larger potential playerbase then ffa.

It looks good on paper, but like i said back in this thread, hardcoded teams has no fluidity. If one team gets too powerful, like it looks like it was evil on live, then youre fucked, your servers dead and it becomes a PVE server, again.

What you say has value, but you make enemies alot less permanent by removing xp loss out of the equation.

[SamwiseRed]

heartbrand will be making full sets of banded at nfp bank, 4pp per ac cuz hes a bastard.

[liveitup1216]

It looks good on paper, but like i said back in this thread, guilds have no fluidity. If one guild gets too powerful, like red99, then youre fucked, your servers dead and it becomes a PVE server, again.

[Mittens Romney]

gross imbalance, you should play red99

That's exactly what I am getting at. Two teams gives everyone one clear opponent. There could be no dominant guild on a two team server because it is us vs them. It is very clear cut without adding a third team in the mix to destroy the balance of power.

[Faerie]

It looks good on paper, but like i said back in this thread, hardcoded teams has no fluidity. If one team gets too powerful, like it looks like it was evil on live, then youre fucked, your servers dead and it becomes a PVE server, again.

What you say has value, but you make enemies alot less permanent by removing xp loss out of the equation.

I don't see why they couldn't penalize the "winning" team somehow, maybe by not allowing character creation on their team for x amount of time while the competition builds up.

[SamwiseRed]

yup nilly hasnt taken 95% of the spawns in 2 years. 2 teams clearly thriving.

[Faerie]

That's exactly what I am getting at. Two teams gives everyone one clear opponent. There could be no dominant guild on a two team server because it is us vs them. It is very clear cut without adding a third team in the mix to destroy the balance of power.

That's not how it would work. Even number of teams does not equate to equal power on each.

[Mittens Romney]

yup nilly hasnt taken 95% of the spawns in 2 years. 2 teams clearly thriving.

It is not two teams. It is Nihilum, who is organized and has strong leadership vs a bunch of other people who cannot get a long.

[SamwiseRed]

sounds like 2 teams to me.

[Danien]

It looks good on paper, but like i said back in this thread, hardcoded teams has no fluidity. If one team gets too powerful, like it looks like it was evil on live, then youre fucked, your servers dead and it becomes a PVE server, again.

What you say has value, but you make enemies alot less permanent by removing xp loss out of the equation.

One side will almost certainly become substantially stronger then the other teams, much like it was on live. Same thing applies for ffa-pvp too though, only then the teams will be called guilds.

That doesn't mean it still won't be fun to play though.

[Tradesonred]

I don't see why they couldn't penalize the "winning" team somehow, maybe by not allowing character creation on their team for x amount of time while the competition builds up.

I addressed this earlier, it seems to me really hard to get the balance right, and personally i cant think of how. We already know evil is going to be loaded and how it killed Sullon, why repeat the experience and expect different results?

You could try to have only 1 character per account but then people would only create 10 accounts... I bet a bunch of people already have 10 accounts. Youd have to code something to delete characters that havent been active for what, 3 months, or 6 months? How to you add all this up?

It seems like a huge fucking headache to me, and a recipe for failure, unless someone can dissect the reasoning that would make it work here. For now, i cant see how it can be done.

[Seary]

Any guild that has Nizzar will win, the dude has (no offense) NO LIFE. He was put on this Earth to play EverQuest, he hasn't had more than a 1-year gap of not playing EQ since before it was launched. He has thousands of real life days played across tons of servers.

He is terrible at the game, but no one can deny that he is the best leader to have (one that doesn't log off).

[SamwiseRed]

i think nizzarr is a better rts player than everquest pvper. eq is just ez and takes no brian.

[liveitup1216]

I addressed this earlier, it seems to me really hard to get the balance right, and personally i cant think of how. We already know nihilum is going to be loaded and how it killed red, why repeat the experience and expect different results?

[Tradesonred]

One side will almost certainly become substantially stronger then the other teams, much like it was on live. Same thing applies for ffa-pvp too though, only then the teams will be called guilds.

That doesn't mean it still won't be fun to play though.

The difference is that if your team sucks, then it sucks for good, youre stuck there. You cant leave it like you can leave a guild to see if you get along more with Guild X or Y, or if guild Z has figured out how to assist yet. It has no fluidity, its gotta be fluid. Gotta think fluid (TM)

[Faerie]

I made this long yet relevant post in another thread a while ago:

So it's possible to code in different deity selections for characters, like SZ did with the Mith Marr warrior/shaman barbarians? If so maybe that could be taken further, to balance out the SZ teams even more. I'm gonna geek out again, so before reading on you should get your "immersion levels" image macros ready.

SZ Good Team:
Barbarian Shaman of Mithaniel Marr
Barbarian Warrior of Mithaniel Marr
Erudite Cleric of Quellious
Erudite Enchanter of Quellious
Erudite Magician of Quellious
Erudite Paladin of Quellious
Erudite Wizard of Quellious
Half Elf Bard of Erollisi/Mithaniel/Rodcet/Quellious/Tunare
Half Elf Druid of Tunare
Half Elf Paladin of Erollisi/Mithaniel/Rodcet/Tunare
Half Elf Ranger of Tunare
High Elf Cleric of Tunare
High Elf Enchanter of Erollisi/Mithaniel/Tunare
High Elf Magician of Erollisi/Mithaniel/Tunare
High Elf Paladin of Tunare
High Elf Wizard of Erollisi/Mithaniel/Tunare
Human Bard of Erollisi/Mithaniel/Rodcet/Quellious/Tunare
Human Cleric of Erollisi/Mithaniel/Rodcet
Human Druid of Tunare
Human Enchanter of Erollisi/Mithaniel/Rodcet
Human Magician of Erollisi/Mithaniel/Rodcet
Human Monk of Quellious
Human Paladin of Erollisi/Mithaniel/Rodcet
Human Ranger of Tunare
Human Rogue of Erollisi/Rodcet
Human Warrior of Erollisi/Mithaniel/Rodcet
Wood Elf Druid of Tunare
Wood Elf Ranger of Tunare
Wood Elf Rogue of Tunare
Wood Elf Warrior of Tunare

SZ Neutral Team:
Barbarian Rogue of Bristlebane/Tribunal
Barbarian Shaman of The Tribunal
Barbarian Warrior of The Tribunal
Dark Elf Rogue of Bristlebane
Dark Elf Wizard of Solusek Ro
Dwarf Cleric of Brell Serilis
Dwarf Paladin of Brell Serilis
Dwarf Rogue of Bristlebane/Brell
Dwarf Warrior of Brell Serilis
Erudite Cleric of Prexus
Erudite Enchanter of Prexus
Erudite Magician of Prexus
Erudite Paladin of Prexus
Erudite Wizard of Prexus/Ro
Gnome Cleric of Bristlebane/Brell
Gnome Enchanter of Brell Serilis
Gnome Magician of Brell Serilis
Gnome Paladin of Brell Serilis (on a server done right, imo)
Gnome Rogue of Bristlebane/Brell
Gnome Warrior of Brell Serelis
Gnome Wizard of Ro/Serelis
Half Elf Bard of Bristlebane/Karana/Prexus/Ro/Brell/Tribunal/Veeshan
Half Elf Druid of Karana
Half Elf Paladin of Karana
Half Elf Ranger of Karana
Half Elf Rogue of Bristlebane/Karana
Half Elf Warrior of Karana/Prexus/Tribunal
Halfling Cleric of Bristlebane
Halfling Druid of Karana
Halfling Paladin of Karana (yes)
Halfling Ranger of Karana (I'd say it again, too)
Halfling Rogue of Bristlebane/Brell
Halfling Warrior of Brell Serilis
High Elf Enchanter of Karana
High Elf Magician of Karana
High Elf Wizard of Karana/Ro
Human Bard of Bristlebane/Karana/Prexus/Ro/Brell/Tribunal/Veeshan
Human Cleric of Karana
Human Druid of Karana
Human Enchanter of Karana
Human Magician of Karana
Human Monk of Veeshan
Human Paladin of Karana
Human Ranger of Karana
Human Rogue of Bristlebane/Karana
Human Warrior of Karana
Human Wizard of Karana/Ro
Wood Elf Bard of Bristlebane/Karana/Prexus/Ro/Brell/Tribunal/Veeshan
Wood Elf Rogue of Bristlebane/Karana
Wood Elf Warrior of Karana

SZ Evil Team:
Barbarian Warrior of Rallos Zek (later made impossible to create)
Dark Elf Cleric of Innoruuk
Dark Elf Enchanter of Innoruuk
Dark Elf Magician of Innoruuk
Dark Elf Necromancer of Innoruuk
Dark Elf Rogue of Innoruuk
Dark Elf Shadow Knight of Innoruuk
Dark Elf Warrior of Innoruuk/Zek
Dark Elf Wizard of Innoruuk
Erudite Cleric of Cazic-Thule
Erudite Necromancer of Cazic-Thule
Erudite Shadow Knight of Cazic-Thule
Gnome Cleric of Bertoxxulous
Gnome Enchanter of Bertoxxulous
Gnome Magician of Bertoxxulous
Gnome Necromancer of Bertoxxulous
Gnome Rogue of Bertoxxulous
Gnome Shadow Knight of Bertoxxulous (in a perfect world)
Gnome Warrior of Bertoxxulous/Zek
Gnome Wizard of Bertoxxulous
Half Elf Bard of Rallos Zek
Half Elf Rogue of Bertoxxulous
Half Elf Warrior of Bertoxxulous/Innoruuk/Zek
Halfling Warrior of Rallos Zek (later made impossible to create)
Human Bard of Rallos Zek
Human Cleric of Bertoxxulous/Innoruuk
Human Enchanter of Bertoxxulous/Innoruuk
Human Magician of Bertoxxulous/Innoruuk
Human Necromancer of Bertoxxulous/Innoruuk
Human Rogue of Bertoxxulous/Innoruuk
Human Shadow Knight of Bertoxxulous/Innoruuk
Human Warrior of Bertoxxulous/Innoruuk/Zek
Human Wizard of Bertoxxulous/Innoruuk
Iksar Monk of Cazic-Thule
Iksar Necromancer of Cazic-Thule
Iksar Shadow Knight of Cazic-Thule
Iksar Shaman of Cazic-Thule
Iksar Warrior of Cazic-Thule
Ogre Shadow Knight of Thule/Zek
Ogre Shaman of Rallos Zek
Ogre Warrior of Thule/Zek
Troll Shadow Knight of Thule/Innoruuk
Troll Shaman of Thule/Innoruuk
Troll Warrior of Thule/Innoruuk/Zek
Wood Elf Bard of Rallos Zek (later made impossible to create)
Wood Elf Warrior of Rallos Zek (later made impossible to create)

By looking at these lists, it's no wonder good team did so poorly on the server. They have the fewest race/class combinations, and the fewest races that can participate on their team. If halflings, dwarves, and maybe gnomes could worship Quellious, Tunare, Rodcet, or whatever, the team would be much more well-rounded and able to compete. Things could even be taken further, to allow for paladins of Zek, druids/rangers of Bertoxxulous, and necromancers/SKs of Ro/Veeshan/Quellious; giving all teams each class.

That may against lore too much though, and a simpler solution might be to just allow agnostic characters to be made with their team determined by race.

Good:
Barbarian (would allow for good barb rogues, since no rogue can worship Mithaniel)
Dwarf
Gnome
Halfling
High Elf
Wood Elf

Neutral:
Half Elf
Human
Erudite

Evil:
Dark Elf
Iksar
Ogre
Troll

This would allow good team more race/class combinations without stepping too much on the toes of neutral team. Of course, evil team is still at their big advantage because of their big size, and the popularity of the SK class. I think it'd be pretty cool to see a custom teams ruleset made, wherein evil team can attack other evil team members, and good/neuts can group together and cast beneficial spells on one another only while grouped. No guilding together for good/neut.

It's nice to dream :)

[SamwiseRed]

fluid = ability to join zerg

[Faerie]

I addressed this earlier, it seems to me really hard to get the balance right, and personally i cant think of how. We already know evil is going to be loaded and how it killed Sullon, why repeat the experience and expect different results?

You could try to have only 1 character per account but then people would only create 10 accounts... I bet a bunch of people already have 10 accounts. Youd have to code something to delete characters that havent been active for what, 3 months, or 6 months? How to you add all this up?

It seems like a huge fucking headache to me, and a recipe for failure, unless someone can dissect the reasoning that would make it work here. For now, i cant see how it can be done.

The balance is already screwed up, with Nihi doing all of the pve uncontested. What's the harm in trying if the worst case scenario is the one we're already in?

[Mittens Romney]

The difference would be that each team may have guilds and players that dislike each other but they will stick together to fight the other team.

[SamwiseRed]

faerie if you are really a woman, would you marry me?

[SamwiseRed]

teams means smaller guilds can still be tight-knit while being part of a larger alliance.

[Faerie]

faerie if you are really a woman, would you marry me?

I thought you were already married? :)

[Danien]

The difference is that if your team sucks, then it sucks for good, youre stuck there. You cant leave it like you can leave a guild to see if you get along more with Guild X or Y, or if guild Z has figured out how to assist yet. It has no fluidity, its gotta be fluid. Gotta think fluid (TM)

Not worth sacrificing the other benefits of teams in order to attain fluidity.

[Seary]

I made this long yet relevant post in another thread a while ago:

So it's possible to code in different deity selections for characters, like SZ did with the Mith Marr warrior/shaman barbarians? If so maybe that could be taken further, to balance out the SZ teams even more. I'm gonna geek out again, so before reading on you should get your "immersion levels" image macros ready.

SZ Good Team:
Barbarian Shaman of Mithaniel Marr
Barbarian Warrior of Mithaniel Marr
Erudite Cleric of Quellious
Erudite Enchanter of Quellious
Erudite Magician of Quellious
Erudite Paladin of Quellious
Erudite Wizard of Quellious
Half Elf Bard of Erollisi/Mithaniel/Rodcet/Quellious/Tunare
Half Elf Druid of Tunare
Half Elf Paladin of Erollisi/Mithaniel/Rodcet/Tunare
Half Elf Ranger of Tunare
High Elf Cleric of Tunare
High Elf Enchanter of Erollisi/Mithaniel/Tunare
High Elf Magician of Erollisi/Mithaniel/Tunare
High Elf Paladin of Tunare
High Elf Wizard of Erollisi/Mithaniel/Tunare
Human Bard of Erollisi/Mithaniel/Rodcet/Quellious/Tunare
Human Cleric of Erollisi/Mithaniel/Rodcet
Human Druid of Tunare
Human Enchanter of Erollisi/Mithaniel/Rodcet
Human Magician of Erollisi/Mithaniel/Rodcet
Human Monk of Quellious
Human Paladin of Erollisi/Mithaniel/Rodcet
Human Ranger of Tunare
Human Rogue of Erollisi/Rodcet
Human Warrior of Erollisi/Mithaniel/Rodcet
Wood Elf Druid of Tunare
Wood Elf Ranger of Tunare
Wood Elf Rogue of Tunare
Wood Elf Warrior of Tunare

SZ Neutral Team:
Barbarian Rogue of Bristlebane/Tribunal
Barbarian Shaman of The Tribunal
Barbarian Warrior of The Tribunal
Dark Elf Rogue of Bristlebane
Dark Elf Wizard of Solusek Ro
Dwarf Cleric of Brell Serilis
Dwarf Paladin of Brell Serilis
Dwarf Rogue of Bristlebane/Brell
Dwarf Warrior of Brell Serilis
Erudite Cleric of Prexus
Erudite Enchanter of Prexus
Erudite Magician of Prexus
Erudite Paladin of Prexus
Erudite Wizard of Prexus/Ro
Gnome Cleric of Bristlebane/Brell
Gnome Enchanter of Brell Serilis
Gnome Magician of Brell Serilis
Gnome Paladin of Brell Serilis (on a server done right, imo)
Gnome Rogue of Bristlebane/Brell
Gnome Warrior of Brell Serelis
Gnome Wizard of Ro/Serelis
Half Elf Bard of Bristlebane/Karana/Prexus/Ro/Brell/Tribunal/Veeshan
Half Elf Druid of Karana
Half Elf Paladin of Karana
Half Elf Ranger of Karana
Half Elf Rogue of Bristlebane/Karana
Half Elf Warrior of Karana/Prexus/Tribunal
Halfling Cleric of Bristlebane
Halfling Druid of Karana
Halfling Paladin of Karana (yes)
Halfling Ranger of Karana (I'd say it again, too)
Halfling Rogue of Bristlebane/Brell
Halfling Warrior of Brell Serilis
High Elf Enchanter of Karana
High Elf Magician of Karana
High Elf Wizard of Karana/Ro
Human Bard of Bristlebane/Karana/Prexus/Ro/Brell/Tribunal/Veeshan
Human Cleric of Karana
Human Druid of Karana
Human Enchanter of Karana
Human Magician of Karana
Human Monk of Veeshan
Human Paladin of Karana
Human Ranger of Karana
Human Rogue of Bristlebane/Karana
Human Warrior of Karana
Human Wizard of Karana/Ro
Wood Elf Bard of Bristlebane/Karana/Prexus/Ro/Brell/Tribunal/Veeshan
Wood Elf Rogue of Bristlebane/Karana
Wood Elf Warrior of Karana

SZ Evil Team:
Barbarian Warrior of Rallos Zek (later made impossible to create)
Dark Elf Cleric of Innoruuk
Dark Elf Enchanter of Innoruuk
Dark Elf Magician of Innoruuk
Dark Elf Necromancer of Innoruuk
Dark Elf Rogue of Innoruuk
Dark Elf Shadow Knight of Innoruuk
Dark Elf Warrior of Innoruuk/Zek
Dark Elf Wizard of Innoruuk
Erudite Cleric of Cazic-Thule
Erudite Necromancer of Cazic-Thule
Erudite Shadow Knight of Cazic-Thule
Gnome Cleric of Bertoxxulous
Gnome Enchanter of Bertoxxulous
Gnome Magician of Bertoxxulous
Gnome Necromancer of Bertoxxulous
Gnome Rogue of Bertoxxulous
Gnome Shadow Knight of Bertoxxulous (in a perfect world)
Gnome Warrior of Bertoxxulous/Zek
Gnome Wizard of Bertoxxulous
Half Elf Bard of Rallos Zek
Half Elf Rogue of Bertoxxulous
Half Elf Warrior of Bertoxxulous/Innoruuk/Zek
Halfling Warrior of Rallos Zek (later made impossible to create)
Human Bard of Rallos Zek
Human Cleric of Bertoxxulous/Innoruuk
Human Enchanter of Bertoxxulous/Innoruuk
Human Magician of Bertoxxulous/Innoruuk
Human Necromancer of Bertoxxulous/Innoruuk
Human Rogue of Bertoxxulous/Innoruuk
Human Shadow Knight of Bertoxxulous/Innoruuk
Human Warrior of Bertoxxulous/Innoruuk/Zek
Human Wizard of Bertoxxulous/Innoruuk
Iksar Monk of Cazic-Thule
Iksar Necromancer of Cazic-Thule
Iksar Shadow Knight of Cazic-Thule
Iksar Shaman of Cazic-Thule
Iksar Warrior of Cazic-Thule
Ogre Shadow Knight of Thule/Zek
Ogre Shaman of Rallos Zek
Ogre Warrior of Thule/Zek
Troll Shadow Knight of Thule/Innoruuk
Troll Shaman of Thule/Innoruuk
Troll Warrior of Thule/Innoruuk/Zek
Wood Elf Bard of Rallos Zek (later made impossible to create)
Wood Elf Warrior of Rallos Zek (later made impossible to create)

By looking at these lists, it's no wonder good team did so poorly on the server. They have the fewest race/class combinations, and the fewest races that can participate on their team. If halflings, dwarves, and maybe gnomes could worship Quellious, Tunare, Rodcet, or whatever, the team would be much more well-rounded and able to compete. Things could even be taken further, to allow for paladins of Zek, druids/rangers of Bertoxxulous, and necromancers/SKs of Ro/Veeshan/Quellious; giving all teams each class.

That may against lore too much though, and a simpler solution might be to just allow agnostic characters to be made with their team determined by race.

Good:
Barbarian (would allow for good barb rogues, since no rogue can worship Mithaniel)
Dwarf
Gnome
Halfling
High Elf
Wood Elf

Neutral:
Half Elf
Human
Erudite

Evil:
Dark Elf
Iksar
Ogre
Troll

This would allow good team more race/class combinations without stepping too much on the toes of neutral team. Of course, evil team is still at their big advantage because of their big size, and the popularity of the SK class. I think it'd be pretty cool to see a custom teams ruleset made, wherein evil team can attack other evil team members, and good/neuts can group together and cast beneficial spells on one another only while grouped. No guilding together for good/neut.

It's nice to dream :)

oh, alright

[Runya]

I would prefer guild vs guild with a max of like 40 players.....non guilded players cannot cast beneficial spells on eachother

[Seary]

I made this long yet relevant post in another thread a while ago:

So it's possible to code in different deity selections for characters, like SZ did with the Mith Marr warrior/shaman barbarians? If so maybe that could be taken further, to balance out the SZ teams even more. I'm gonna geek out again, so before reading on you should get your "immersion levels" image macros ready.

SZ Good Team:
Barbarian Shaman of Mithaniel Marr
Barbarian Warrior of Mithaniel Marr
Erudite Cleric of Quellious
Erudite Enchanter of Quellious
Erudite Magician of Quellious
Erudite Paladin of Quellious
Erudite Wizard of Quellious
Half Elf Bard of Erollisi/Mithaniel/Rodcet/Quellious/Tunare
Half Elf Druid of Tunare
Half Elf Paladin of Erollisi/Mithaniel/Rodcet/Tunare
Half Elf Ranger of Tunare
High Elf Cleric of Tunare
High Elf Enchanter of Erollisi/Mithaniel/Tunare
High Elf Magician of Erollisi/Mithaniel/Tunare
High Elf Paladin of Tunare
High Elf Wizard of Erollisi/Mithaniel/Tunare
Human Bard of Erollisi/Mithaniel/Rodcet/Quellious/Tunare
Human Cleric of Erollisi/Mithaniel/Rodcet
Human Druid of Tunare
Human Enchanter of Erollisi/Mithaniel/Rodcet
Human Magician of Erollisi/Mithaniel/Rodcet
Human Monk of Quellious
Human Paladin of Erollisi/Mithaniel/Rodcet
Human Ranger of Tunare
Human Rogue of Erollisi/Rodcet
Human Warrior of Erollisi/Mithaniel/Rodcet
Wood Elf Druid of Tunare
Wood Elf Ranger of Tunare
Wood Elf Rogue of Tunare
Wood Elf Warrior of Tunare

SZ Neutral Team:
Barbarian Rogue of Bristlebane/Tribunal
Barbarian Shaman of The Tribunal
Barbarian Warrior of The Tribunal
Dark Elf Rogue of Bristlebane
Dark Elf Wizard of Solusek Ro
Dwarf Cleric of Brell Serilis
Dwarf Paladin of Brell Serilis
Dwarf Rogue of Bristlebane/Brell
Dwarf Warrior of Brell Serilis
Erudite Cleric of Prexus
Erudite Enchanter of Prexus
Erudite Magician of Prexus
Erudite Paladin of Prexus
Erudite Wizard of Prexus/Ro
Gnome Cleric of Bristlebane/Brell
Gnome Enchanter of Brell Serilis
Gnome Magician of Brell Serilis
Gnome Paladin of Brell Serilis (on a server done right, imo)
Gnome Rogue of Bristlebane/Brell
Gnome Warrior of Brell Serelis
Gnome Wizard of Ro/Serelis
Half Elf Bard of Bristlebane/Karana/Prexus/Ro/Brell/Tribunal/Veeshan
Half Elf Druid of Karana
Half Elf Paladin of Karana
Half Elf Ranger of Karana
Half Elf Rogue of Bristlebane/Karana
Half Elf Warrior of Karana/Prexus/Tribunal
Halfling Cleric of Bristlebane
Halfling Druid of Karana
Halfling Paladin of Karana (yes)
Halfling Ranger of Karana (I'd say it again, too)
Halfling Rogue of Bristlebane/Brell
Halfling Warrior of Brell Serilis
High Elf Enchanter of Karana
High Elf Magician of Karana
High Elf Wizard of Karana/Ro
Human Bard of Bristlebane/Karana/Prexus/Ro/Brell/Tribunal/Veeshan
Human Cleric of Karana
Human Druid of Karana
Human Enchanter of Karana
Human Magician of Karana
Human Monk of Veeshan
Human Paladin of Karana
Human Ranger of Karana
Human Rogue of Bristlebane/Karana
Human Warrior of Karana
Human Wizard of Karana/Ro
Wood Elf Bard of Bristlebane/Karana/Prexus/Ro/Brell/Tribunal/Veeshan
Wood Elf Rogue of Bristlebane/Karana
Wood Elf Warrior of Karana

SZ Evil Team:
Barbarian Warrior of Rallos Zek (later made impossible to create)
Dark Elf Cleric of Innoruuk
Dark Elf Enchanter of Innoruuk
Dark Elf Magician of Innoruuk
Dark Elf Necromancer of Innoruuk
Dark Elf Rogue of Innoruuk
Dark Elf Shadow Knight of Innoruuk
Dark Elf Warrior of Innoruuk/Zek
Dark Elf Wizard of Innoruuk
Erudite Cleric of Cazic-Thule
Erudite Necromancer of Cazic-Thule
Erudite Shadow Knight of Cazic-Thule
Gnome Cleric of Bertoxxulous
Gnome Enchanter of Bertoxxulous
Gnome Magician of Bertoxxulous
Gnome Necromancer of Bertoxxulous
Gnome Rogue of Bertoxxulous
Gnome Shadow Knight of Bertoxxulous (in a perfect world)
Gnome Warrior of Bertoxxulous/Zek
Gnome Wizard of Bertoxxulous
Half Elf Bard of Rallos Zek
Half Elf Rogue of Bertoxxulous
Half Elf Warrior of Bertoxxulous/Innoruuk/Zek
Halfling Warrior of Rallos Zek (later made impossible to create)
Human Bard of Rallos Zek
Human Cleric of Bertoxxulous/Innoruuk
Human Enchanter of Bertoxxulous/Innoruuk
Human Magician of Bertoxxulous/Innoruuk
Human Necromancer of Bertoxxulous/Innoruuk
Human Rogue of Bertoxxulous/Innoruuk
Human Shadow Knight of Bertoxxulous/Innoruuk
Human Warrior of Bertoxxulous/Innoruuk/Zek
Human Wizard of Bertoxxulous/Innoruuk
Iksar Monk of Cazic-Thule
Iksar Necromancer of Cazic-Thule
Iksar Shadow Knight of Cazic-Thule
Iksar Shaman of Cazic-Thule
Iksar Warrior of Cazic-Thule
Ogre Shadow Knight of Thule/Zek
Ogre Shaman of Rallos Zek
Ogre Warrior of Thule/Zek
Troll Shadow Knight of Thule/Innoruuk
Troll Shaman of Thule/Innoruuk
Troll Warrior of Thule/Innoruuk/Zek
Wood Elf Bard of Rallos Zek (later made impossible to create)
Wood Elf Warrior of Rallos Zek (later made impossible to create)

By looking at these lists, it's no wonder good team did so poorly on the server. They have the fewest race/class combinations, and the fewest races that can participate on their team. If halflings, dwarves, and maybe gnomes could worship Quellious, Tunare, Rodcet, or whatever, the team would be much more well-rounded and able to compete. Things could even be taken further, to allow for paladins of Zek, druids/rangers of Bertoxxulous, and necromancers/SKs of Ro/Veeshan/Quellious; giving all teams each class.

That may against lore too much though, and a simpler solution might be to just allow agnostic characters to be made with their team determined by race.

Good:
Barbarian (would allow for good barb rogues, since no rogue can worship Mithaniel)
Dwarf
Gnome
Halfling
High Elf
Wood Elf

Neutral:
Half Elf
Human
Erudite

Evil:
Dark Elf
Iksar
Ogre
Troll

This would allow good team more race/class combinations without stepping too much on the toes of neutral team. Of course, evil team is still at their big advantage because of their big size, and the popularity of the SK class. I think it'd be pretty cool to see a custom teams ruleset made, wherein evil team can attack other evil team members, and good/neuts can group together and cast beneficial spells on one another only while grouped. No guilding together for good/neut.

It's nice to dream :)

ps, seek help.

[SamwiseRed]

I thought you were already married? :)

im a single hobbit in the world of norrath.

[Faerie]

im a single hobbit in the world of norrath.

We could totally get EQ married! Now that is classic :P

[Glorindale]

We could totally get EQ married! Now that is classic :P

Only if classic is a synonym for totally lame.

[SamwiseRed]

a lot of jelly, even if faerie is a bearded man id probably hit it.

[Runya]

We could totally get EQ married! Now that is classic :P

Anyone remember the epic "red wedding" on rz? lol

[Faerie]

a lot of jelly, even if faerie is a bearded man id probably hit it.

<33

[Tradesonred]

The balance is already screwed up, with Nihi doing all of the pve uncontested. What's the harm in trying if the worst case scenario is the one we're already in?

Thats because the server wasnt booted right. Nihilum was allowed to get miles of advance as the pop dwindled and their focus was on PVE anyway so they kept playing and getting more gear. Xp loss in pvp was removed too late, xp got cut among that, server didnt get a chance to recover properly. Thats like a bonsai growing all fucked up because of how it got started. I think people got bored that pvp had such a harsh penalty to partake in it and made them leave. People couldnt contest the zerg, server dwindled. It was patched, but people had left.

If the server is going to be wiped and we get a fresh start, I think our best bet would be an FFA server without xp loss straight off the bat so no zerg is allowed the kind of stranglehold it was allowed to get on red99 1.0

The harm in trying is screwing up the chance to redo the whole 2011 launch again, right this time, with guards that work and no xp loss in pvp.

Im not dismissing teams alltogether, but i havent read something that makes me say "This could work" yet. With FFA if a team gets too powerful, people can do something about it. In hardcoded teams, the only solution is to get new people to play the server, which we all know is super easy to accomplish. With FFA you can reshuffle the teams once in a while.

[runlvlzero]

I thought you were already married? :)

He's obviously a mormon.

[Mittens Romney]

Nihilum is team A. They have no interest in killing each other because they can kill everyone else.
Team B consists of all of the other guilds who can kill each other, and team A. So while team A kills all the spawns team B is busy fighting itself so they cannot stop team A.

On a team server you are forced into only being able to attack your opposing team. It eliminates the ability of team B to cannibalize itself.

Two teams also allows for GM intervention in the form of some sort of bonus to attract new players to the losing side.

[SamwiseRed]

add me to fb faerie :) the p99ers on their are hilarious (sadly not many from red)

[Gustoo]

Zero teams.

Personally I would want to be on the ogre team.

I don't think the game divides well in any way into any number of fixed teams. It would just mean an already small server would have permanent divides. Power is very attractive and it would mean at least eventually there would almost certainly be a team anyone wanting raid gear would join. Yeah there would be some contrary folks but the main thing teams encourages is griefing of the opposing team.

The only layout that kinda makes sense is qeynos vs Freeport since they both get a dragon but Freeport is way closer to guk and Sol which are key areas. Maybe the shire vs Freeport would work.

I don't think locking people into the losing team would really do anything good. Its easy enough to re roll.

[runlvlzero]

Also if hardcoding teams, please make AE's and rains hit only enemies and not guildmates/team mates. Those are good/important spells that need to be viable on a pvp server!

[Not_Kazowi]

Teams are a pipe dream people! It will not work. There are too many ways to abuse it and it is too much to monitor and keep in check.


Guilds are teams. If anything just make Guilds have a member cap and do not allow buffing or healing outside of the guild you are tagged.

[SamwiseRed]

Nihilum is team A. They have no interest in killing each other because they can kill everyone else.
Team B consists of all of the other guilds who can kill each other, and team A. So while team A kills all the spawns team B is busy fighting itself so they cannot stop team A.

On a team server you are forced into only being able to attack your opposing team. It eliminates the ability of team B to cannibalize itself.

Two teams also allows for GM intervention in the form of some sort of bonus to attract new players to the losing side.

you are in nihilum, your opinions are not valid friend.

[runlvlzero]

Zero teams.

Personally I would want to be on the ogre team.

I don't think the game divides well in any way into any number of fixed teams. It would just mean an already small server would have permanent divides. Power is very attractive and it would mean at least eventually there would almost certainly be a team anyone wanting raid gear would join. Yeah there would be some contrary folks but the main thing teams encourages is griefing of the opposing team.

The only layout that kinda makes sense is qeynos vs Freeport since they both get a dragon but Freeport is way closer to guk and Sol which are key areas. Maybe the shire vs Freeport would work.

I don't think locking people into the losing team would really do anything good. Its easy enough to re roll.

You secretly would like to be a barbarian though. You tell me about it quite a bit. Somehow I think we can de-immerse you from ogre min maxing.

Maybe lets remove ogre stun immunity to further balance evil team?

[Faerie]

Thats because the server wasnt booted right. Nihilum was allowed to get miles of advance as the pop dwindled and their focus was on PVE anyway so they kept playing and getting more gear. Xp loss in pvp was removed too late, xp got cut among that, server didnt get a chance to recover properly. Thats like a bonsai growing all fucked up because of how it got started. I think people got bored that pvp had such a harsh penalty to partake in it and made them leave. People couldnt contest the zerg, server dwindled. It was patched, but people had left.

If the server is going to be wiped and we get a fresh start, I think our best bet would be an FFA server without xp loss straight off the bat so no zerg is allowed the kind of stranglehold it was allowed to get on red99 1.0

The harm in trying is screwing up the chance to redo the whole 2011 launch again, right this time, with guards that work and no xp loss in pvp.

Im not dismissing teams alltogether, but i havent read something that makes me say "This could work" yet. With FFA if a team gets too powerful, people can do something about it. In hardcoded teams, the only solution is to get new people to play the server, which we all know is super easy to accomplish. With FFA you can reshuffle the teams once in a while.

The server isn't going to be wiped, they've told us this multiple times. I'm thinking they're either making a new server, or are going to implement teams here with our existing characters.

[Bazia]

the wipe wasnt intentional but an error

[SamwiseRed]

ogres cant even get thru lguk without ducking, big disadvantage for manastone/guise quest.

[peatrick]

0 Teams

There are really people who actually enjoy team based PvP? I thought that's what all the new cookie-cutter MMO's have gone to because 90% of the population cannot hack true world PvP combat. Sheesh, now folks are literally BEGGING for it?

Guild politics very often drive end-game experiences and Rallos Zek had it right from the start, just Verant/SOE paid zero attention to the fact that Rallos even existed from beta right on through to retail. The fact that you could death touch almost any INT caster with Ice Comet before PvP spell reduction was just a complete farce and huge lack of foresight from the dev team. Anyway, what i'm trying to say is that people argue and guilds are no different. One simple event can trigger a wave of defections from a poorly lead guild and being locked into preset teams removes all ability to enjoy this completely player-driven aspect of the game.

Blue server has to cry over who engaged a mob first. That just seems ridiculous to me. Whoever is best equipped to take it down should get that chance. We need more PvP population, not another way to divide the community. Different strokes, for different folks.

[Gustoo]

Fact is any bluebies we get or most of them are going to pick team strong.

At the very least I think we can all agree that three teams are off the table.

[Mittens Romney]

The server isn't going to be wiped, they've told us this multiple times. I'm thinking they're either making a new server, or are going to implement teams here with our existing characters.

Maybe, but it is odd that Sirken would ask this now while the server is crashed and a new poll on the forum heavily favors a wipe. I personally don't care either way. I just like to play EQ on PvP servers.

[Tradesonred]

The server isn't going to be wiped, they've told us this multiple times. I'm thinking they're either making a new server, or are going to implement teams here with our existing characters.

Well its all the same anyway, i think it would be weird for them to launch a new server that would eat away at the already low pop of Red, and server is still down, which hints that some kind of nuclear-scale incident happened to the server farm.

But yes, it is all speculation at this point

[Kelsar]

Some staff feel two teams is best (ie: WoW, SWToR), others feel that 3-4 teams is much better (ie: Sullon Zek, Vallon Zek) So which do you prefer, and why? (if your post does not include a reason, it will be ignored).


2 Teams

3 Teams

0 Teams


(yes i could do a poll, but that would encourage people to vote without posting, and anyone that doesnt post a reason deserves to be ignored).


thank you very much,
Sirken
0 teams: No teams.

EQ was never designed for teams, it was clearly an afterthought. Also keep in mind "raid" content.

No matter how you slice it, it's nearly impossible to cut it in any manner without losing raid or pvp prowess.

If your talking about a game built from the ground up, I would say three teams and complete/open PVP.

[Bazia]

pre wipe red99 was fucking terrible

was just farm fungi for alt quest with 0 pvp

pras the gods

[Clark]

After reading through this rapidly growing thread, I'll agree with the folks who say 3 teams. Splitting everyone among three separate factions is a good way to go about things.

Look at PlanetSide - they have a pretty nicely set up 3-team system. I'm sure the folks in charge here can create something I and everyone else on the server would be glad to log in when we get that hankering for classic EQ and PVP.

It'll most certainly attract new players because FFA PVP servers are intimidating, and therefore new players avoid it.

[Danien]

Teams are a pipe dream people! It will not work. There are too many ways to abuse it and it is too much to monitor and keep in check.


Guilds are teams. If anything just make Guilds have a member cap and do not allow buffing or healing outside of the guild you are tagged.

You think as someone who already knows who he's going to play with. You have to adjust the server to embrace the average joe's who just start playing without anyone else. FFA helps fostering the paranoia where people alienate people from groups and what not because they are potentially (going to join) the enemy.

[SamwiseRed]

0 teams: No teams.

EQ was never designed for teams, it was clearly an afterthought. Also keep in mind "raid" content.

No matter how you slice it, it's nearly impossible to cut it in any manner without losing raid or pvp prowess.

If your talking about a game built from the ground up, I would say three teams and complete/open PVP.

yet they had a team code 3 different team based pvp servers. moran.

[Clark]

Stale EQ is bunk as shit, fresh servers is where it's at.

Sirken trollen us hard probably - but I've got a partial.

absolutely

[Jepaxis]

Well 24 pages later and not a single workable idea better than my page 3 idea.

[Gustoo]

Okay if they made teams right now and everyone had to re roll or be stuck that would be pretty hilarious.

[Stasis01]

You think as someone who already knows who he's going to play with. You have to adjust the server to embrace the average joe's who just start playing without anyone else. FFA helps fostering the paranoia where people alienate people from groups and what not because they are potentially (going to join) the enemy.

This guys got it right