Why is training allowed on p99 in veeshan's peak? (poll asking your opinion)

[Vianna]

Please prove that you could not train in VP in live for the 100th time. If not, stfu k thanks!

You can't claim it was allowed when there weren't 2 competing guilds in VP in the era of kunark. A random person logging in every now and again and training doesn't mean it was allowed. VP did not have competing raid forces in it during this era on live.

[Alarti0001]

Same thing "YOU can kill people to kill stuff!!". Sounds like you enjoy PVP "Derp" as you like to say. You have yet to show a single viable reason that training should be allowed anywhere for the sake of competition.

Have you been in VP yet. The reason training is legal is because pathing is fucked. Training is GOING to happen so the GM's decided to make it legal to not have 100000 petitions to go through daily. I figured you already knew about this.

[Tasslehofp99]

Please prove that you could not train in VP in live for the 100th time. If not, stfu k thanks!

Dude, I've said this like 3 times. In the original post I made you can find a link that will bring you to the everquest rule book. In it you will find that training is prohibited by the rules put in place just before kunark release. Because believe it or not, during classic EQ the GM's took a hands off approach. Then people started to continually grief other players and the devs felt that a Play Nice Policy was needed, so it was implemented before kunark was released. Training was never allowed by GM's on live, it was a policy adopted by the P99 server devs for whatever reasons.

[Tasslehofp99]

Have you been in VP yet. The reason training is legal is because pathing is fucked. Training is GOING to happen so the GM's decided to make it legal to not have 100000 petitions to go through daily. I figured you already knew about this.

Training doesn't HAVE to happen, sure it can happen on accident. IF you think there is no way 2 guilds can race to a dragon without training eachother then you are sadly mistaken.

[quido]

Ele you should put your 60 monk to use effectively if VP train wars aren't convenient enough for you... maybe we'd get out of there a little more quickly.

[Tasslehofp99]

Ele you should put your 60 monk to use effectively if VP train wars aren't convenient enough for you... maybe we'd get out of there a little more quickly.

Training isn't classic, atleast some of us realize that and refuse to lower our standards of EQ raiding just to get pixels faster.

[Tiggles]

Tassle you obviously hate playing on this server, you hate the non classic raids you hate the staff you hate the top guild.

Do you only play here because its free?

Tassle I'll buy you a six month wow game card if you never post on here again.

Seriously, click on his name and check view posts every single one is either a bitch about something or congratulating someone who fucked over TMO for something.

He in my mind is just as bad as harrison.

I bet if you banned Tassle he would start making a million accounts like harrison.

[Vianna]

Have you been in VP yet. The reason training is legal is because pathing is fucked. Training is GOING to happen so the GM's decided to make it legal to not have 100000 petitions to go through daily. I figured you already knew about this.

You and I both know it is avoidable in a lot of situations regardless of pathing. Now I am not saying accidental trains can't and won't happen.. but if we agree to try to avoid them and just compete with each other without intentionally training.. I think most people can stay level headed about it and understand accidents happen. I repeat again this is not just VP and this is not just about current VP. Training is being discussed for Velious zones as well. It is simply a mechanic that doesn't need to be in the game.

Look how many hard feelings it causes between guilds that have been in VP so far on this server. A few of you have said people would intentionally do things that are detrimental to the server in your opinion if it wasn't allowed. When we both know training existing causes more problems than waking the sleeper ever would for players on this server. Not saying I want the sleeper awakened I think most people don't... but if it happens that is a part of the progression of EQ and using that as a defense for training is just not very rational.

[Arteker]

You can't claim it was allowed when there weren't 2 competing guilds in VP in the era of kunark. A random person logging in every now and again and training doesn't mean it was allowed. VP did not have competing raid forces in it during this era on live.

in solusek ro it indeed in both zone sleeper and vp .

[Tasslehofp99]

Tassle you obviously hate playing on this server, you hate the non classic raids you hate the staff you hate the top guild.

Do you only play here because its free?

Tassle I'll buy you a six month wow game card if you never post on here again.

Seriously, click on his name and check view posts every single one is either a bitch about something or congratulating someone who fucked over TMO for something.

He in my mind is just as bad as harrison.

I bet if you banned Tassle he would start making a million accounts like harrison.

You're the one breaking forum rules by posting flames in the incorrect forum.


Anyway, what non-classic raids do I hate? The only non-classic feature on p99 that I hate right now is that training is allowed in VP. This is not how it was on live.

As for server staff, when have I ever said I hate them? Do I agree with all of their policies? No, but you don't either, so why am I any different than you?

[Tasslehofp99]

in solusek ro it indeed in both zone sleeper and vp .

If it happened, it wasn't accepted/allowed by GM's. If you think so, you're mistaken.

[Splorf22]

Projection much?

See, you don't understand that composing every post from a small set of canned one-liners (current ones are 'prove it', 'derp', and 'projection?', 'velious fixes everything', 'try harder') is exactly the kind of thing that I'm talking about.

[Tiggles]

You're the one breaking forum rules by posting flames in the incorrect forum.


Anyway, what non-classic raids do I hate? The only non-classic feature on p99 that I hate right now is that training is allowed in VP. This is not how it was on live.

As for server staff, when have I ever said I hate them? Do I agree with all of their policies? No, but you don't either, so why am I any different than you?

Come into my stream and tell me all about it buddy

[Arteker]

Training isn't classic, atleast some of us realize that and refuse to lower our standards of EQ raiding just to get pixels faster.

yet ur guild try that tactic often in vp but didint worked very well for months .

[Tasslehofp99]

Come into my stream and tell me all about it buddy

No thanks, move on troll.

[Tasslehofp99]

yet ur guild try that tactic often in vp but didint worked very well for months .

We were trying to participate in raiding content with the current rules that are in place. Obviously you did the same, so I'm not sure how that is even a relevant fact worth mentioning. Every guild who is VP keyed has trained because the rules of the server allow that. We're already past that, now we're discussing the fact that said rules are far from classic and do nothing to support a competitive raiding scene on p99.

[Excidium]

People were more decent on Live. P99 is what an MMO looks like when it is accompanied by 4chan style mentality. I have never seen so many online losers fight over stupid shit before in my life. Share the damn content. I have a hard time believing TMO still needs loot after two years in Kunark. Maybe if they ran classic raid numbers (around 24 in Kunark) and no maxed out alts camped for the poopsock, everybody could have a shot at killing targets.

I was in Echoes of Elysium on the progression. I sat indifferent to Damdor's selfish BS. You don't need those targets, you just like "owning" everything. He ran a RMT scheme. He enjoyed the grief he caused other guilds. I'd laugh so hard if this server got shut down tomorrow. Just think of all the lost RL time your members lost by poopsocking targets. Maybe if you played a more livable game schedule you would have less turnover. Best be feeding that RMT market.

[Tiggles]

We were trying to participate in raiding content with the current rules that are in place. Obviously you did the same, so I'm not sure how that is even a relevant fact worth mentioning. Every guild who is VP keyed has trained because the rules of the server allow that. We're already past that, now we're discussing the fact that said rules are far from classic and do nothing to support a competitive raiding scene on p99.

Last night you suggested on your forums that FE/IB/BDA should get together to keep TMO out of VP 24/7 until you lock down the zone.

Your guild told you that was a dumb idea and I assume the other guilds said the same.

After they tell you that you try to remove training from VP?

You are a scumbag plain and simple tassle. Get a job that doesn't allow you to troll forums 24/7 and get a life.

[Thulack]

People were more decent on Live. P99 is what an MMO looks like when it is accompanied by 4chan style mentality. I have never seen so many online losers fight over stupid shit before in my life. Share the damn content. I have a hard time believing TMO still needs loot after two years in Kunark. Maybe if they ran classic raid numbers (around 24 in Kunark) and no maxed out alts camped for the poopsock, everybody could have a shot at killing targets.

I was in Echoes of Elysium on the progression. I sat indifferent to Damdor's selfish BS. You don't need those targets, you just like "owning" everything. He ran a RMT scheme. He enjoyed the grief he caused other guilds. I'd laugh so hard if this server got shut down tomorrow. Just think of all the lost RL time your members lost by poopsocking targets. Maybe if you played a more livable game schedule you would have less turnover. Best be feeding that RMT market.

Nicely put.

[Tasslehofp99]

People were more decent on Live. P99 is what an MMO looks like when it is accompanied by 4chan style mentality. I have never seen so many online losers fight over stupid shit before in my life. Share the damn content. I have a hard time believing TMO still needs loot after two years in Kunark. Maybe if they ran classic raid numbers (around 24 in Kunark) and no maxed out alts camped for the poopsock, everybody could have a shot at killing targets.

I was in Echoes of Elysium on the progression. I sat indifferent to Damdor's selfish BS. You don't need those targets, you just like "owning" everything. He ran a RMT scheme. He enjoyed the grief he caused other guilds. I'd laugh so hard if this server got shut down tomorrow. Just think of all the lost RL time your members lost by poopsocking targets. Maybe if you played a more livable game schedule you would have less turnover. Best be feeding that RMT market.

Here is a look into the mindset of your average TMO member:

I didn't read any of this thread but any rule change may stop me as a TMO member from getting as much loot for my alts I will veto it.

If TMO didn't have a monopoly on VP how would purchased all your gear like you do now?

It's fairly sad and disappointing, 12+ years later.

[Tasslehofp99]

Last night you suggested on your forums that FE/IB/BDA should get together to keep TMO out of VP 24/7 until you lock down the zone.

Your guild told you that was a dumb idea and I assume the other guilds said the same.

After they tell you that you try to remove training from VP?

You are a scumbag plain and simple tassle. Get a job that doesn't allow you to troll forums 24/7 and get a life.

This isn't rants and flames, move on troll.

If you had half a brain you'd realize that my post on my guild's private forums which you continue to intrude on was made in a very friendly manner. I then made this post here and was met with instant trolling from opponents of my idea. I initially made that post and sent Zeelot PM's offering a friendly alternative to the current shitty VP situation. Stop trying to spin this into something its not...Yes, I am against training being allowed in VP. But if TMO is the deciding factor on what rules are put in place then we are left with no choice but to band together and make an attempt at getting the rules changed(as sirken suggested himself.)

The "Train TMO 24/7 with any willing and able bodies" idea is the very attitude which you're supporting by keeping training allowed.

[Vianna]

Last night you suggested on your forums that FE/IB/BDA should get together to keep TMO out of VP 24/7 until you lock down the zone.

Your guild told you that was a dumb idea and I assume the other guilds said the same.

After they tell you that you try to remove training from VP?

You are a scumbag plain and simple tassle. Get a job that doesn't allow you to troll forums 24/7 and get a life.

Derail on your stream but keep it out of this thread Tiggles. Tassle has strong opinions just like you but it doesn't make him a scumbag. He sees the same problems everyone sees... Hard feelings get caused over the mechanic in place. I doubt you would have a problem at all with Tassle right now if you weren't in a guild that trained against his guild in VP.

[Alarti0001]

You can't claim it was allowed when there weren't 2 competing guilds in VP in the era of kunark. A random person logging in every now and again and training doesn't mean it was allowed. VP did not have competing raid forces in it during this era on live.

It was allowed on fennin. How can you claim to know what others can claim?

[Arteker]

Derail on your stream but keep it out of this thread Tiggles. Tassle has strong opinions just like you but it doesn't make him a scumbag. He sees the same problems everyone sees... Hard feelings get caused over the mechanic in place. I doubt you would have a problem at all with Tassle right now if you weren't in a guild that trained against his guild in VP.

actualy he trained us first not very efective at some point FE had 16 dedicated trainers took us 4 hours but we did killed all mobs.
if u wan t real train wars u gotta look at IB vs TMO back in the day at some point after months of trying to train us and never stoping us they almost never show up.

yeah sure there is always 2 or 3 people trying to train but usualy end dead quickly and without support njot much they can do.

[xarzzardorn]

Here is a look into the mindset of your average TMO member:





It's fairly sad and disappointing, 12+ years later.

the best reason to argue with you about training in vp is because of how blatantly self serving your whining is. "we could have done it if we really wanted to" lol

[Laugher]

Lets recap what has actually been established (or re established here)

1. People of various guilds are enraged by the current policy and as a result how they interact with VP and use the same methods (training) to get what and where they want (hopefully)

2. We've heard from the leadership of TMO, and they like/embrace the current policy lol

3. RnF for 20 pages

So moving past this rage forumquest, how are other guilds going to deal with this if the policy isn't going to change? Lets hear some of that :)

[Tasslehofp99]

It was allowed on fennin. How can you claim to know what others can claim?

The fact that trains happened isn't proof that it was allowed/sanctioned by GM's. That was never the case on live EQ, for the 100th time. I'm not sure what year you started playing during, maybe VP was irrelevant by the time you made it there so the rules were less enforced. Either way, it wasn't "allowed" as you keep saying.

[ArumTP]

Training everywhere or nowhere

[Tasslehofp99]

actualy he trained us first not very efective at some point FE had 16 dedicated trainers took us 4 hours but we did killed all mobs.
if u wan t real train wars u gotta look at IB vs TMO back in the day at some point after months of trying to train us and never stoping us they almost never show up.

yeah sure there is always 2 or 3 people trying to train but usualy end dead quickly and without support njot much they can do.

Why is this relevant to the conversation at all?

the best reason to argue with you about training in vp is because of how blatantly self serving your whining is. "we could have done it if we really wanted to" lol

How about I'll make a deal with you?
I'll delete my only VP keyed character's VP key if the rules are changed permanently, and training is never allowed. You can have a GM confirm it was done too, I'll start over on a new VP key.
But for now, you can't say that my ideas are self serving and I can say that I'm genuinely concerned about a non-classic rule which hurts the raiding scene as a whole.
The fact that you all come here shitting up my non-RNF thread arguing against any discussion about changing the rule seems awfully self serving as well.


If people want to discuss changing the rules, why is it up to TMO to end that discussion and troll the fuck out of the thread until its moved to rants and flames?

[Arteker]

people was quite polite in live servers? thats hilarius , maybe u not enough old back then to understand what realy was happening but there was not mr nice politics in eq back in the day.

you know tass u remember me to some of the player base would cry moan in the forums about stuff like: omg plane of justice trials are to rough we cannot xp in valor, omg me we need a easy mode for everything .

[radditsu]

Being allowed and not having the manpower to enforce the rules are two different things. Also for a non csr zone , amelinda did an awful lot of csr in there. But whatever.

[xmonkx]

The fact that trains happened isn't proof that it was allowed/sanctioned by GM's. That was never the case on live EQ, for the 100th time. I'm not sure what year you started playing during, maybe VP was irrelevant by the time you made it there so the rules were less enforced. Either way, it wasn't "allowed" as you keep saying.

Again, show me something that verifies this claim, that training wasn't allowed in vp. You can't so please take your seat. This will be my last post because you're too damn thick headed to realize you can't prove it.

[Tasslehofp99]

people was quite polite in live servers? thats hilarius , maybe u not enough old back then to understand what realy was happening but there was not mr nice politics in eq back in the day.

You're right, it wasn't very different from this. The only thing is, training was not allowed on live. It was always enforced by GM's if proven to be done intentionally, no matter what zone it was in.

[SCB]

People were more decent on Live. P99 is what an MMO looks like when it is accompanied by 4chan style mentality. I have never seen so many online losers fight over stupid shit before in my life. Share the damn content.

QFT.

people was quite polite in live servers? thats hilarius , maybe u not enough old back then to understand what realy was happening but there was not mr nice politics in eq back in the day.

you know tass u remember me to some of the player base would cry moan in the forums about stuff like: omg plane of justice trials are to rough we cannot xp in valor, omg me we need a easy mode for everything .

Please God tell me English is not your first language.

[Fazlazen]

plz FE go back to training in VP.

With my tight schedule the only way I get to kill a dragon is if TMO gets trained and I get to come in way late as a savior!

[Vianna]

It was allowed on fennin. How can you claim to know what others can claim?

I didn't say it wasn't allowed. I doubt it was allowed highly on any server via the play nice policy. In many cases there were not 2 guilds in the zones in the time frame of this server to make the statement true for classic kunark/Velious. Now training may have happened in those zones AFTER those expansion but I will argue with ya that they happened during that era based on numbers of keys available during each expansion. So are we saying Training happened in VP and maybe Sleepers because it looked like it was allowed some time in Luclin and PoP ? If so we aren't following a classic timeline for when rulings like that would have been made. =)

[Arteker]

Why is this relevant to the conversation at all?




Because while u though u could Train and wipe TMO and get into Vp after getting lucky with a single dragon u didint complained about train police.

Because u know ur real chance actualy to repeat it after u tried the train way for months with no result is to try to ban it.



what you do as always is CRY and cry and cry and moan all over fucking server because it dont benefeits you .

and then you claim TMO is selfish guild when actualy things worked that way for you and ur guild u where very silent , at best u all want is a public outcry probably will never be in vp even when velious is launched because they will not put the time and the effort to get in it.


lets think if tmo want promise a free random loot of any vop dragon to anyone with a key ,, you think if tmo do this u would find any support? .

u just want something forbidden by forum people because in game u are nothing than less to get it .

[Arteker]

I didn't say it wasn't allowed. I doubt it was allowed highly on any server via the play nice policy. In many cases there were not 2 guilds in the zones in the time frame of this server to make the statement true for classic kunark/Velious. Now training may have happened in those zones AFTER those expansion but I will argue with ya that they happened during that era based on numbers of keys available during each expansion. So are we saying Training happened in VP and maybe Sleepers because it looked like it was allowed some time in Luclin and PoP ? If so we aren't following a classic timeline for when rulings like that would have been made. =)

i can confirm you Trains in solusek ro server btw euro guilds magna charta and parading happened all time in sleepers and vp .in kunark and velious age .
to the point sleeper was awakened with the sole purpose to fuck of a ntov raid of one of the guilds first attemp to kill vulak

[Vianna]

i can confirm you Trains in solusek ro server btw euro guilds magna charta and parading happened all time in sleepers and vp .in kunark and velious age .
to the point sleeper was awakened with the sole purpose to fuck of a ntov raid of one of the guilds first attemp to kill vulak

Prove it =)

[Fazlazen]

to the point sleeper was awakened with the sole purpose to fuck of a ntov raid of one of the guilds first attemp to kill vulak

haha beauty.

[Fazlazen]

Prove it =)

be nice or we will revoke your posting privileges.

[Enygma]

And being civil in Velious helps too. There is no reason for all this hate between people. Have a competition without the hard feelings.

Unfortunately FE had a very bad attitude entering the raid scene and conducted themselves in a manner that was for a lack of a better term shitty (FTE sniping, would train trak/CT/Inny etc after a failed attempt etc to try and impede competition instead of hanging their head high - well we wiped this time we will get it next time mentality) This caused hard feelings ... as well... FE was made up of all the shitty players from ex-bad guilds that were rude / obnoxious in the raid scene.

[Kagatob]

FTE is the source of all of your problems. Get a clue.

[Enygma]

FTE is the source of all of your problems. Get a clue.

Not anymore now that there are FTE shouts implemented.

[Atmas]

Why is this thread coming now? TMO been getting trained for a long time by people not even attempting to kill anything there.

[SCB]

Unfortunately FE had a very bad attitude entering the raid scene and conducted themselves in a manner that was for a lack of a better term shitty (FTE sniping, would train trak/CT/Inny etc after a failed attempt etc to try and impede competition instead of hanging their head high - well we wiped this time we will get it next time mentality) This caused hard feelings ... as well... FE was made up of all the shitty players from ex-bad guilds that were rude / obnoxious in the raid scene.

You seem to have no concept of the amount of distrust and dislike that simply having the <TMO> tag on causes in every casual member of this community that you will ever meet. Everyone may not hate you by default, but no one assumes you're anything but a selfish dickbag by default.

You're insane if you think any ill will was begun by FE. It was begun before TMO was even dominant on this server. Many players in the top guilds here act like shitbags. Despite their repeat claims otherwise, they aren't "better" than other players in any meaningful way - they're just more willing to put their lives on hold and dick over other people. Neither of those things is something to be proud of.

We're all nerds here, but some of you transcend this to a whole new level of maximum-nerd-douchebaggery, and that's really fucking sad.

[Arteker]

Prove it =)

what you want to prove me that it happened? want me aswell give u the names and why darkwind awakened sleeper in antonius bayle in first week after server tranfer happened?.

solusek ro was a mainly european server, actualy excuse me usa based server with a hugue hugue population of euros to the point most guilds from usa time frame where killed and they moved out server.


u realy think eq is fair? what would you think if this server had REal classic feature in raid mob pop timers and suddendly u found out a euro time based guild was forming?.

u would cry because damm euros have adventage and they took ur merbs?.


u can google what happened with europa in SH server and how whole server though the eurotrash had a a unfair adventage due to just having a better time frame.

[Arteker]

You seem to have no concept of the amount of distrust and dislike that simply having the <TMO> tag on causes in every casual member of this community that you will ever meet. Everyone may not hate you by default, but no one assumes you're anything but a selfish dickbag by default.

You're insane if you think any ill will was begun by FE. It was begun before TMO was even dominant on this server. Many players in the top guilds here act like shitbags. Despite their repeat claims otherwise, they aren't "better" than other players in any meaningful way - they're just more willing to put their lives on hold and dick over other people. Neither of those things is something to be proud of.

We're all nerds here, but some of you transcend this to a whole new level of maximum-nerd-douchebaggery, and that's really fucking sad.

of course everyone hate the top guild.

prime live example : FOH VS TR QUARM case

[Kagatob]

Not anymore now that there are FTE shouts implemented.

That has absolutely nothing to do with it and you've obviously never played live back then.

Figuring out who got FTE is only a problem because non-classic FTE exists. If there were not FTE you wouldn't have multiple guild poopsocking... ever.

[SCB]

of course everyone hate the top guild.

prime live example : FOH VS TR QUARM case

No. Read that again.

It's not some weird-ass jealousy thing. It's a "you're an asshole to everyone you meet because of a weird-ass superiority complex" thing.

If they really wanted those pixels, they'd set up a batphone and buy characters to park at mobs and would make SUPER DUPER SURE they were the first person to press "Autoattack" when the boss explodes in 4 seconds. None of that is remotely difficult. None of this has to do with jealousy.

There's nothing to be jealous of. No one is jealous of the fat kid in the comics store with EVERY FIRST EDITION COMIC because no one cares as much as he does about HIS AMAZING COMIC COLLECTION LOOK AT IT. Of course, he tells himself they're all just jealous.

Really he just smells like shit and is as annoying as he is repulsive.

[Vianna]

what you want to prove me that it happened? want me aswell give u the names and why darkwind awakened sleeper in antonius bayle in first week after server tranfer happened?.

solusek ro was a mainly european server, actualy excuse me usa based server with a hugue hugue population of euros to the point most guilds from usa time frame where killed and they moved out server.


u realy think eq is fair? what would you think if this server had REal classic feature in raid mob pop timers and suddendly u found out a euro time based guild was forming?.

u would cry because damm euros have adventage and they took ur merbs?.


u can google what happened with europa in SH server and how whole server though the eurotrash had a a unfair adventage due to just having a better time frame.

I wouldn't have a problem with euro's owning some spawns because of the time they play. My problem is simply training. Which again I have never been a part of. I understand that it happened on some servers... The time frame of when is uncertain for sure. My argument is it didn't happen in classic and is not really a viable mechanic for Project 1999 with the other mechanics in place.

[Excidium]

what you want to prove me that it happened? want me aswell give u the names and why darkwind awakened sleeper in antonius bayle in first week after server tranfer happened?.

solusek ro was a mainly european server, actualy excuse me usa based server with a hugue hugue population of euros to the point most guilds from usa time frame where killed and they moved out server.


u realy think eq is fair? what would you think if this server had REal classic feature in raid mob pop timers and suddendly u found out a euro time based guild was forming?.

u would cry because damm euros have adventage and they took ur merbs?.


u can google what happened with europa in SH server and how whole server though the eurotrash had a a unfair adventage due to just having a better time frame.

For the love of this forum, stop sounding like a /btard. If I wanted to go to the Internet's asshole I'd head to 4chan where the ability to form sentences is a lost art. CP and bad memes run rampant there like people here defend other people's bad behavior with flame wars and troll logic. Your whole logical thought process gives a microwave oven a run for its money.

[Arteker]

I wouldn't have a problem with euro's owning some spawns because of the time they play. My problem is simply training. Which again I have never been a part of. I understand that it happened on some servers... The time frame of when is uncertain for sure. My argument is it didn't happen in classic and is not really a viable mechanic for Project 1999 with the other mechanics in place.

euros would dominate every spanw and dont give a fuck till forum questers would ry alot and make gms helps other guilds to keep some form of domain.


ibfact such event was the herald of the fall down of the premium server stormhammer back in the day .
you never been part of training? i swear ur char has been used if u ianna the cleric outside of VP gates to provide trainers with Rez box yet u claim u where not keyed im not rigth?.

[Arteker]

For the love of this forum, stop sounding like a /btard. If I wanted to go to the Internet's asshole, I'd head to 4chan where the ability to form sentences is a lost art and CP and bad memes run rampant. Your whole logical thought process gives a microwave oven a run for its money.

thats maybe because me english isnt very good yet i bet you me spanish portuguese french is way better than yours,

btw what the fuck is 4chan im not a hugue inetrnet nerd im to old for that shit.

[SCB]

thats maybe because me english isnt very good yet i bet you me spanish portuguese french is way better than yours,

btw what the fuck is 4chan im not a hugue inetrnet nerd im to old for that shit.

You'll note we aren't blurting out sentence fragments in languages we can't speak. Might be time to sit a few plays out there, champ.

[Excidium]

thats maybe because me english isnt very good yet i bet you me spanish portuguese french is way better than yours,

btw what the fuck is 4chan im not a hugue inetrnet nerd im to old for that shit.

Because french, spanish, and portuguese will get me far on an english forum playing and english PC video game. Save your time and don't join a debate club.

[Vianna]

euros would dominate every spanw and dont give a fuck till forum questers would ry alot and make gms helps other guilds to keep some form of domain.


ibfact such event was the herald of the fall down of the premium server stormhammer back in the day .
you never been part of training? i swear ur char has been used if u ianna the cleric outside of VP gates to provide trainers with Rez box yet u claim u where not keyed im not rigth?.

You aren't right I never rezzed anyone outside of VP that was training inside.

[Kagatob]

You'll note we aren't blurting out sentence fragments in languages we can't speak. Might be time to sit a few plays out there, champ.

Because french, spanish, and portuguese will get me far on an english forum playing and english PC video game. Save your time and don't join a debate club.

Holy shit aspergers.

[Arteker]

Because french, spanish, and portuguese will get me far on an english forum playing and english PC video game. Save your time and don't join a debate club.

i will if u cannot understand it, well thats ur problem . im used to this server racism u just another of the prime examples of being a forum nazy .

[Alarti0001]

The fact that trains happened isn't proof that it was allowed/sanctioned by GM's. That was never the case on live EQ, for the 100th time. I'm not sure what year you started playing during, maybe VP was irrelevant by the time you made it there so the rules were less enforced. Either way, it wasn't "allowed" as you keep saying.

Prove it. On every server.... go

[Kagatob]

^ I say aspergers and look who shows up... :D

[Vianna]

i will if u cannot understand it, well thats ur problem . im used to this server racism u just another of the prime examples of being a forum nazy .

Agree we can have problems with each other, but let's not make this about where someone is from and try to put them down for it.

[SCB]

i will if u cannot understand it, well thats ur problem . im used to this server racism u just another of the prime examples of being a forum nazy .

Did you really just threaten to join a debate club to spite that dude?

Intense.

Agree we can have problems with each other, but let's not make this about where someone is from and try to put them down for it.

No one has expressed racism toward him.

[Excidium]

i will if u cannot understand it, well thats ur problem . im used to this server racism u just another of the prime examples of being a forum nazy .

Oh because I might be white its racism? Its not called racism when I call you a fucking tool. Its called facts. Pulling the race card when your tail is between your legs is beta as fuck. If you are going to talk shit to people, back it up or head to RnF. Stop trolling the people who are trying to have a constructive conversation.

Actually, I just think you are troll. Always a solution for that.

[Laugher]

Lets recap what has actually been established (or re established here)

1. People of various guilds are enraged by the current policy and as a result how they interact with VP and use the same methods (training) to get what and where they want (hopefully)

2. We've heard from the leadership of TMO, and they like/embrace the current policy lol

3. RnF for 20 pages

So moving past this rage forumquest, how are other guilds going to deal with this if the policy isn't going to change? Lets hear some of that :)

Moving forward do any* guilds or guild reps want to tackle the question after number 3?

[Arteker]

Oh because I might be white its racism? Its not called racism when I call you a fucking tool. Its called facts. Pulling the race card when your tail is between your legs is beta as fuck. If you are going to talk shit to people, back it up or head to RnF. Stop trolling the people who are trying to have a constructive conversation.

Actually, I just think you are troll. Always a solution for that.

im white who actualy brings ethnicity skin colour to the debate? you did . thanks to prove me point .


im not trolling and i been in vp in live and here since almost the beggining must say was not keyed when released vp but shortly after that i was.


i lived train wars wich followed the breaking of the truce btw TMO and TR when they reformed agaisnt as IB.

i saw the ib+vd train wars versus tmo.
i saw the vd leftovers join bda and train tmo in vp.
i saw FE train wars with tmo at his peak .


i just know once the train didint worked as intrument for FE they try to forum quest it out.

anyone can dig this forums and see how many times tass visceral and many other claimed they will drive out tmo of vp with trains.
who posted pics of dead tmo members such tortue and sentenza and make fun of it.


the real trouble , FE cannot drive out TMO of vp by sheer brute force of train wars , they tried and failed for months.

So what left, cry in the forums wich is what many people do. cry cry if u realy wanna change things do it in game .

[quido]

Training isn't classic, atleast some of us realize that and refuse to lower our standards of EQ raiding just to get pixels faster.

lol

So you now refuse to lower your standards?

Just because you didn't have the means to do the training yourself way back when doesn't mean you weren't involved. I remember seeing you up on the old ledge skinning and sowing people, harmonying mobs. So it was ok to lower yourself when you had a realistic chance at succeeding, but now that you don't, you won't lower yourself?

lol

[Tiggles]

lol

So you now refuse to lower your standards?

Just because you didn't have the means to do the training yourself way back when doesn't mean you weren't involved. I remember seeing you up on the old ledge skinning and sowing people, harmonying mobs. So it was ok to lower yourself when you had a realistic chance at succeeding, but now that you don't, you won't lower yourself?

lol

Tassle is mad that his hide got nerfed and he can't watch us slay dragons

[SamwiseRed]

Tassle you obviously hate playing on this server, you hate the non classic raids you hate the staff you hate the top guild.

Do you only play here because its free?

Tassle I'll buy you a six month wow game card if you never post on here again.

Seriously, click on his name and check view posts every single one is either a bitch about something or congratulating someone who fucked over TMO for something.

He in my mind is just as bad as harrison.

I bet if you banned Tassle he would start making a million accounts like harrison.

offer me same deal plz

[Vianna]

Again for me it isn't about just VP. Sure it would be nice to get rid of it in VP for true competition without some weird version of PVP via training.... It is about future zones on the server too...Not many people on this server want to endure griefing because it is a culture that was started what 2 years ago ? Let go of the grudges and make the competition fun without burning people out of the game. You won't lose your position because training ends. You still have the tools to mobilize and win races.

[timhutton]

Tasslehoff is literally one of the worst players that could have created this thread/brought this issue up.

Reading his posts is likely to give me an aneurysm at some point in the very near future, and the dude is practically a non-TMO version of Alarti with serious grammar issues, mixed with the posting fury/dedication of Harrison.

That said, some of his points are valid, and the fact that it was this particular individual that brought up/created the thread should not detract too much from the message.

Ignore the messenger.

[SCB]

im white who actualy brings ethnicity skin colour to the debate? you did . thanks to prove me point .


i will if u cannot understand it, well thats ur problem . im used to this server racism u just another of the prime examples of being a forum nazy .


Damn you're dumb.

[Tasslehofp99]

lol

So you now refuse to lower your standards?

Just because you didn't have the means to do the training yourself way back when doesn't mean you weren't involved. I remember seeing you up on the old ledge skinning and sowing people, harmonying mobs. So it was ok to lower yourself when you had a realistic chance at succeeding, but now that you don't, you won't lower yourself?

lol

To me, training is boring and being able to do so is not a sign of skill. If the server rules allow for training then yeah, obviously any guild wanting to kill there is going to have to train in order to get kills. This thread wasn't about that, its about how we can discuss possibly changing the training rules in VP to make raiding more fun on Project1999. Apparently you're incapable of looking past our differences from the past to discuss something that could possibly provide a healthier raiding scene here.


Tassle is mad that his hide got nerfed and he can't watch us slay dragons

I was in VP the other night gave sentenza a /wave and kept it moving. Even saw Nexona up on the way out. Theres no reason we can't have a more civil raiding scene.

[quido]

Sure it would be nice to get rid of it in VP for true competition without some weird version of PVP via training....

I think the training is more a competition than you plopping forty people on PD's spawn for a week straight. I know you won't even try to deny that this is exactly what you would do, because we all know it is.

[Arteker]

Again for me it isn't about just VP. Sure it would be nice to get rid of it in VP for true competition without some weird version of PVP via training.... It is about future zones on the server too...Not many people on this server want to endure griefing because it is a culture that was started what 2 years ago ? Let go of the grudges and make the competition fun without burning people out of the game. You won't lose your position because training ends. You still have the tools to mobilize and win races.

vianna honestly it been 3 years
if u dont mind me little english i could tell you actualy there was back in the day a rotation wich worked for TR and TMO for long time for vp.

TMO did honour the rotation BUt TR backstabbed us and broke the deal 3 dragons of vp per week for each guild.

TR broke off and reformed IB in secret and while tmo was in sky doing sisters they actualy attemp to kill 2 of the dragons of the tmo rotation .
so we backfired with trains to the betrayal of ib .
since them every guild in vp has been dealing with Trains over tmo or trying to drive tmo or just plain and simple fuck of tmo when zone upon vp.



FE tried hard in train wars at first they where succesfull lots of delays and their only dragon kill in vp happened and that made them push even harder in train wars .

but time passed and they never got another dragon so they train war was pointless and with time they just give up with the random 3 or 4 people zoning trying to train but with new invis emchanics they die quite fast

[Vianna]

I think the training is more a competition than you plopping forty people on PD's spawn for a week straight. I know you won't even try to deny that this is exactly what you would do, because we all know it is.


Camping chars out at spawns is what the raiding mechanics are Jeremy. I doubt a whole raid would sit there online for a week. Again it comes with a risk vs .reward. What targets are priority for you and which do you want to try to get. Making VP a non training zone right now will force all guilds to change their priorities in targets which opens up the chances of smaller guilds getting targets that can't be as strongly watched because of the fail safe of training in VP. It helps a larger guild lock down more of the content when true competition with the playing field balanced wouldn't allow for that. If you have a problem racing for PD the same way you race for trak for once instead of training because it helps you keep VP uncontested...I understand.

[Tiggles]

Camping chars out at spawns is what the raiding mechanics are Jeremy. I doubt a whole raid would sit there online for a week. Again it comes with a risk vs .reward. What targets are priority for you and which do you want to try to get. Making VP a non training zone right now will force all guilds to change their priorities in targets which opens up the chances of smaller guilds getting targets that can't be as strongly watched because of the fail safe of training in VP. It helps a larger guild lock down more of the content when true competition with the playing field balanced wouldn't allow for that. If you have a problem racing for PD the same way you race for trak for once instead of training because it helps you keep VP uncontested...I understand.

FE sits on VS every minute he is window.

[Vianna]

vianna honestly it been 3 years
if u dont mind me little english i could tell you actualy there was back in the day a rotation wich worked for TR and TMO for long time for vp.

TMO did honour the rotation BUt TR backstabbed us and broke the deal 3 dragons of vp per week for each guild.

TR broke off and reformed IB in secret and while tmo was in sky doing sisters they actualy attemp to kill 2 of the dragons of the tmo rotation .
so we backfired with trains to the betrayal of ib .
since them every guild in vp has been dealing with Trains over tmo or trying to drive tmo or just plain and simple fuck of tmo when zone upon vp.



FE tried hard in train wars at first they where succesfull lots of delays and their only dragon kill in vp happened and that made them push even harder in train wars .

but time passed and they never got another dragon so they train war was pointless and with time they just give up with the random 3 or 4 people zoning trying to train but with new invis emchanics they die quite fast

Yeah it is old grudges that can be resolved to make this a healthier place to raid for everyone. No one is asking for hand outs. TMO is still the largest guild and still can mobilize fast for the targets they want. They won't stop being the top guild simply because training stops in VP. It will however balance the playing field across the board more.

[Vianna]

FE sits on VS every minute he is window.

One group of players XPing yes. We could keep people farming juggs in seb if we chose too but don't. I think we both know VP is slightly different than KC and Seb =p

[quido]

I understand this is your last resort as a guild for some VP loot. It's understandable. I understand.

Maybe you should team up with IB.

[Vianna]

I understand this is your last resort as a guild for some VP loot. It's understandable. I understand.

Maybe you should team up with IB.

Jeremy. I don't have a VP key and likely won't before Velious. Stop projecting misplaced understanding on me. I don't hold the grudges and loot doesn't inspire anything I do. I enjoy raiding in EQ and always have. I'd like to see it balanced for everyone.

[SCB]

I understand this is your last resort as a guild for some VP loot. It's understandable. I understand.

Maybe you should team up with IB.

If anyone on this server JUST wanted loot, all they'd have to do is app TMO, get in, and collect loot. Anything thats not a VP drop would go to them anyway, as your characters have all the other loot.

Stop suggesting it's about pixels. If people wanted pixels, they'd be member 400 in TMO.

[Arteker]

Yeah it is old grudges that can be resolved to make this a healthier place to raid for everyone. No one is asking for hand outs. TMO is still the largest guild and still can mobilize fast for the targets they want. They won't stop being the top guild simply because training stops in VP. It will however balance the playing field across the board more.

u mean so we can live massive popsocks again and unitentional train than happens very frequently at trak ledge?.
i did more popsocks in 2013 thanks to FE than back in the TR ib+vd days.and atleats abck in the day we had india trvia to amuse both guilds.

i dont see why always we play the card of faster mobilization when we know FE desire a mob is perfectly able to keep from 3 to 4 groups in a spot for 7 days if needed.

Hell if even FE name was picked up as a insult towards tmo , what u guys espect we suddenly turn nice and shake hands?.


i will give you credit about ur comments about bad blood. it still exist and tas is one of the main promoters .

realy you think if FE leadership seek tmo leadership for a civil way to rule out a nicer system of raids it will work with such people?.


back in the day after tmo finished with ib and we had no real competitor as VD showed a great lacking on eladership and people .

tmo was enough nice to share a dragon the infamous endangered species . and it end backslash us because people begon to insults,



as i told you im a old player of solusek ro server and its just as simple as kunark is to small to keep 2 uber guilds happy and since unlike live we had tons of alts its way and simpled fucked up more.

[Ele]

So nice that we can have a reasoned discourse amongst players. Oh wait we can't. Time for a new thread.

[Tasslehofp99]

So nice that we can have a reasoned discourse amongst players. Oh wait we can't. Time for a new thread.

Atleast the poll offered us a glimpse into the current mindset of the playerbase, even if a miniscule sample of the server's population!

[hatelore]

Until the GM's state that you can no longer train in VP, I will continue to unmercifully train any person or persons that steps into VP without a TMO tag on. You also ask for proof that training wasn't aloud in live. Well you're the one with the burden of proof to prove that it wasn't.

+10 for the best dickhead response so far.

[Vianna]

u mean so we can live massive popsocks again and unitentional train than happens very frequently at trak ledge?.
i did more popsocks in 2013 thanks to FE than back in the TR ib+vd days.and atleats abck in the day we had india trvia to amuse both guilds.

i dont see why always we play the card of faster mobilization when we know FE desire a mob is perfectly able to keep from 3 to 4 groups in a spot for 7 days if needed.

Hell if even FE name was picked up as a insult towards tmo , what u guys espect we suddenly turn nice and shake hands?.


i will give you credit about ur comments about bad blood. it still exist and tas is one of the main promoters .

realy you think if FE leadership seek tmo leadership for a civil way to rule out a nicer system of raids it will work with such people?.


back in the day after tmo finished with ib and we had no real competitor as VD showed a great lacking on eladership and people .

tmo was enough nice to share a dragon the infamous endangered species . and it end backslash us because people begon to insults,



as i told you im a old player of solusek ro server and its just as simple as kunark is to small to keep 2 uber guilds happy and since unlike live we had tons of alts its way and simpled fucked up more.

No one says you have to like us. Just that you compete on an even playing field with us. You will still get a lot of what you go after and we may get some as well. But at least we won't have the training to infuriate each other further. Listen I got no problem with any of ya and honestly wish ya the best in the game and in life regardless what happens with this. I am just pointing out that it can be easier and more balanced for everyone without all the grudges and anger that gets caused because of a culture of training that started a few years ago.

[Handull]

There was a time when the FE folks said "we'll beat you at your own game. We're getting better and will continue to improve and take dragons from you."

Now that Tasslehof is maxed out on gear outside of VP and at an impasse with further progress due to his guild falling apart, he wants to change the rules! I can't say I really blame him, I just think it's kind of pathetic. There was a time when the training rules were to TR/IB's advantage, not TMO's, but you didn't see us crying about it. You should do what we did - adapt and overcome, not set the bar lower so even groups with piss-poor coordination can get a piece.

The train wars we've had in VP have been some of the most fun I've had playing this game. A lot of you who have never experienced such a situation say "it doesn't take any skill to train someone," but you really have no idea what you're talking about. I think it's fascinating that something on the blue server can involve a more human vs human element. The ingenuity, the coordination, the ups and down - it's a bit more engaging than the rest of what we do.

FE did play your game, but as we did, the GMs stepped in and changed it in your favor. TMO would move to a new safe ledge to safely rez/buff/train from/etc, FE struggled to keep up, FE would get to that same ledge and then start to get even again, then TMO would glitch dragons through walls to train FE, accuse FE of exploiting the zone to kill mobs without getting hit, and the GMs cAme in and changeD things so no one could use the technique TMO started using but was being outplayed with.

this was one factor of many that lead to FE burning out in vp. trying to kill dragons and train/coutner-train with 20-30 vs 40-50+keyed alt army+already vp geared toons is a struggle enough.

that said at times I enjoyed the trains, and at times it was just tedious.

I dont understand the comparison of vp trains to sleeper trains. training in sleepers tomb has a purpose for the server. I dont see why training in vp is somehow special when compared to training in trak lair, vs pit, skyfire, fear, hate, etc.

tmo has no reason to change their stance on vp unless another guild can grief them to their breaking point. with any luck i'll have a vp key on my monk soon enough and I can help to that end :)

and while I haven't seen it in action yet, I look forward to the pathing changes that were announced for vp, combined with the change to invis pulling. not saying this is a magic fix all patch, but it will help with some things.

[khanable]

People want training in VP
People don't want training in VP

I'm the guy that just wants to watch all the training, shit is probably hilarious to see

Someone set up a 24/7 VP entrance stream so I can watch this shit

[Tiggles]

Atleast the poll offered us a glimpse into the current mindset of the playerbase, even if a miniscule sample of the server's population!

Should of opened the poll to only people with VP keys btw

[Tasslehofp99]

Should of opened the poll to only people with VP keys btw

Fail to see how that is relevant considering there will be others keyed for VP in the future who have a stake in this discussion.

[Tiggles]

Fail to see how that is relevant considering there will be others keyed for VP in the future who have a stake in this discussion.



yeah but out of those 200 players who voted 80% won't evens see a Trakanon kill let alone VP.


Why should i care what they think about it

[Ele]

yeah but out of those 200 players who voted 80% won't evens see a Trakanon kill let alone VP.


Why should i care what they think about it

ITT Tiggles will play on P99 until his death bed making sure the 80% never kill Trakanon.

[Alarti0001]

ITT Tiggles will play on P99 until his death bed making sure the 80% never kill Trakanon.

^ reasoned discourse... lmao

[Ele]

Did you ever respond to me Alarti? Never got a PM and I'm not about to skim through expanding each post to see if you did.

[Tiggles]

ITT Tiggles will play on P99 until his death bed making sure the 80% never kill Trakanon.

Until they turn off the lights ele I'll be there, a not so silent guardian

[Autotune]

you clearly missed what i was saying. you say players doing most of the training do it because they want to, maybe instead of assuming how much time i spend in VP, you should be thinking of ways to remove their incentive for training you. or train them back.

i love that you added, "GuildA decided as a guild not to train and then got corpse camped". First of all, who cares what one guild says or dictates? second, its laughable to think that they thought they wouldnt get trained in a zone that sees more trains than grand central station, simply because THEY decided not to train.

all the guilds need to agree to something or it doesnt work. and sometimes you gotta fight fire with fire until the other sides are willing to come to the table and talk.

if you do not force them to the discussion table with your actions, why would they agree to anything? i know i surely would not.

<3

PS- as for the guy that said he will train anyone not in his guild, well, hes not a guild leader, and if his GL tells him to knock it off, he will. but currently its open season, and hunters are gonna hunt


Zeelot will never tell someone that they can't train a competing guild in VP, You can put that on the list of shit that will never happen right up under instances and luclin.

[Acrux Bcrux]

This was one of the reasons that verant originally put a play nice policy in place, because they were losing players left and right to griefing assholes. Imagine what p99's population would look like if we had fair rules which were enforced and true to the rules laid out in classic everquest.

Too bad its all about the $$$$, as it raid loot i mean.

[hatelore]

Tasslehof is not a good choice for "getting guilds together."



Griefing like a certain FE monk does is not "actions." It's certainly not competition, which is the only thing that would bring any guild to the table.



IB also woke the sleeper for kicks on eqmac. They'll do it here too. Unless Rogean decides to make VP/ST fully red, training is the only way to circumvent this kind of stupidity.

You people don't know what you're asking when you ask for "play nice policies." You really don't understand the kind of scum that VD/FE/IB really is (for the most part; there are some who aren't so bad), who will use these same policies to destroy the fun you think you would get as a result by, yes, waking the sleeper when Velious is released here.

Someone has the link to the thread on EQMAC on waking sleeper (Getsome: IB's infamous leader); I don't have the time to dig it up.

^ Completely laughable. You act as if its SUPER IMPORTANT to keep the train scene going in vp because when sleeper comes all will want PHAT LEWTS and you don't want IB to ruin it for everyone! Lol.... You seriously are going to sit here and imply in any way whatsoever that tmo will sit back and allow peeps to get phat lewts in sleeper when velious drops, with or without a training rule, really? Kind of like with CT in fear right? No training ever happens there.

And you talk of scum in former guilds. I love how the members that leave the good family guilds like bda, go to TMO and turn into the biggest douches of all time, do you just feel you have to be more douchy then the real tmo members when you join or what? Just curious.

[t0lkien]

Just FYI, Sirken also mentioned on his stream they are considering making the Sleeper not wakeable to prevent such nonsense.

I'm all for classic, but being that's the actual *final* act of classic, I'm all for it. It's where the original game should have ended anyway.

[Faerie]

I thought waking the sleeper was going to wipe the server, where it starts to follow the actual live progression timeline?

[Tiggles]

I thought waking the sleeper was going to wipe the server, where it starts to follow the actual live progression timeline?

I'm 100% behind that.

[Alarti0001]

Did you ever respond to me Alarti? Never got a PM and I'm not about to skim through expanding each post to see if you did.

LOL derper hiding from information.

[sanforce]

I think training should be allowed in VP, just to see the tears flow on this forum. I don't understand why smaller guilds don't combine their efforts to oust the #1 guild, who is "taking" all of their pixels. Instead of changing the rules to suit your needs, make alliances and focus your efforts - that's true competition. Being ineffective and then crying about it on the forums only detracts from your second rate guilds.

[Clark]

Absolute bull shit rule

Shouldn't be allowed

[Detoxx]

Didn't read entire thread, so don't know if this was mentioned but...

VP is different from any other raid targets. There isn't AoE fear wurms in PoHate, or 1500 damage aoe cold wurms. You can't just "race" to a dragon in VP. Not to mention the 2 min respawn timer. This zone is completely different than any other raid mob.

[Vianna]

Didn't read entire thread, so don't know if this was mentioned but...

VP is different from any other raid targets. There isn't AoE fear wurms in PoHate, or 1500 damage aoe cold wurms. You can't just "race" to a dragon in VP. Not to mention the 2 min respawn timer. This zone is completely different than any other raid mob.

Which would mean training isn't needed. Skilled guilds who can race in the zone without dying to test their skills would be fun in it's own right. You can laugh as they train themselves etc. That doesn't support that training should be allowed in the zone. That was what I was speaking too when I told Jeremy that zone isn't seb or KC.

[Autotune]

Which would mean training isn't needed. Skilled guilds who can race in the zone without dying to test their skills would be fun in it's own right. You can laugh as they train themselves etc. That doesn't support that training should be allowed in the zone. That was what I was speaking too when I told Jeremy that zone isn't seb or KC.

With CSR and no Rotation, people would just cry to GMs every single time there is a VP raid.

/petition SoandSo just trained me, please raid suspend their guild and give us loot.

Sounds so exciting...

[Vianna]

With CSR and no Rotation, people would just cry to GMs every single time there is a VP raid.

/petition SoandSo just trained me, please raid suspend their guild and give us loot.

Sounds so exciting...

And we all know none of that gets investigated without fraps so I don't see a problem here. If a train wasn't intentional fraps will show that. We all go in understanding pathing is messed up and mistakes can happen. When you are reasonable with each other instead of screaming at each other things can be worked out. A foreign concept I know, but it tends to work. The competition will still be there for the guilds...without the training.

[Autotune]

And we all know none of that gets investigated without fraps so I don't see a problem here. If a train wasn't intentional fraps will show that. We all go in understanding pathing is messed up and mistakes can happen. When you are reasonable with each other instead of screaming at each other things can be worked out. A foreign concept I know, but it tends to work. The competition will still be there for the guilds...without the training.

Just depends if TMO would rather put raids in the hands of staff or keep it like it is and considering a good bit of TMO is still around from the days where every raid ended up petitioned, I'd say it is really slim that they would agree to it.

If staff wanted to deal with it, and it never seemed like they did considering they made it nonCSR, they could easily change it and accept all the new petitions that would follow.

[Kingore]

Which would mean training isn't needed. Skilled guilds who can race in the zone without dying to test their skills would be fun in it's own right. You can laugh as they train themselves etc. That doesn't support that training should be allowed in the zone. That was what I was speaking too when I told Jeremy that zone isn't seb or KC.

Let me know when you get to VP, because then you could make that assessment.

[contemptor]

ITT Tiggles will play on P99 until his death bed making sure the 80% never kill Trakanon.
Basically, he's probably not too many twinkies away at this point though, there's light at the end of the tunnel.

[Nietche]

I'd like to see it balanced for everyone.

It is balanced. Every mechanic, every pathing issue--every thing in game affects players the same way, given their class/race. What is not in balance is the ability for other guilds like FE to step up to the plate and actually learn what TMO already has in hand regarding, for instance, how to deal with the VP environment.

What you want is not balance. You want a handout.

Kind of like with CT in fear right? No training ever happens there.

And you talk of scum in former guilds. I love how the members that leave the good family guilds like bda, go to TMO and turn into the biggest douches of all time, do you just feel you have to be more douchy then the real tmo members when you join or what? Just curious.

Training is pretty generally accidental in fear, even when BDA trained themselves and blamed it on TMO and we saw it on fraps.

As you'll remember if you think on it hard enough, my beef with BDA before I left was the atrocity known as the "VD merger" with BDA and with, at a personal level, Shinko, who Chest adored at the time like he was a long lost puppy. You see how that turned out, and once beloved Shinko is now hated by BDA. How ironic.

[contemptor]

I think training should be allowed in VP, just to see the tears flow on this forum. I don't understand why smaller guilds don't combine their efforts to oust the #1 guild, who is "taking" all of their pixels. Instead of changing the rules to suit your needs, make alliances and focus your efforts - that's true competition. Being ineffective and then crying about it on the forums only detracts from your second rate guilds.
Regardless of numbers, not everyone enjoys training for hours to kill a dragon.

[Vianna]

Let me know when you get to VP, because then you could make that assessment.

You really think there aren't fraps of VP out there for everyone to watch ? /shrug. It's EQ there isn't much to assess.

[contemptor]

It is balanced. Every mechanic, every pathing issue--every thing in game affects players the same way, given their class/race. What is not in balance is the ability for other guilds like FE to step up to the plate and actually learn what TMO already has in hand regarding, for instance, how to deal with the VP environment.

What you want is not balance. You want a handout.



Training is pretty generally accidental in fear, even when BDA trained themselves and blamed it on TMO and we saw it on fraps.

As you'll remember if you think on it hard enough, my beef with BDA before I left was the atrocity known as the "VD merger" with BDA and with, at a personal level, Shinko, who Chest adored at the time like he was a long lost puppy. You see how that turned out, and once beloved Shinko is now hated by BDA. How ironic.
Stuff like starting DT cycles with 1-2 people in zone is accidental too eh?

[Vianna]

It is balanced. Every mechanic, every pathing issue--every thing in game affects players the same way, given their class/race. What is not in balance is the ability for other guilds like FE to step up to the plate and actually learn what TMO already has in hand regarding, for instance, how to deal with the VP environment.

What you want is not balance. You want a handout.



Training is pretty generally accidental in fear, even when BDA trained themselves and blamed it on TMO and we saw it on fraps.

As you'll remember if you think on it hard enough, my beef with BDA before I left was the atrocity known as the "VD merger" with BDA and with, at a personal level, Shinko, who Chest adored at the time like he was a long lost puppy. You see how that turned out, and once beloved Shinko is now hated by BDA. How ironic.

Derailment and BS no one wants a handout. We would still have to win a race to the mob and kill it. What YOU want is to be able to continue to train and keep people away from VP so you can raid it at your own leisure instead of competing. No offense to ya but let's call a spade a spade here. It is easier for your guild because of the head start. The rules in place allow it so no one can complain about it. But no one is asking for a handout we are asking for a reasonable discussion about it because the mechanics in the endgame allow for a different raiding environment now. How many times do I have to say this is about more than VP ? Sleepers will be on the server soon as well... No one wants a repeat of VP there either outside of a guild that wants to control it the same way with training. It isn't competition....It is a tool to avoid competition.

[Nietche]

Stuff like starting DT cycles with 1-2 people in zone is accidental too eh?

I can't remember the last time BDA was in zone for a CT kill (except for repop day when 40 of you failed to even get draco before we zoned in after you were there for 30 minutes). I don't think even you know what you're talking about, whoever you are.

[Nietche]

Derailment and BS no one wants a handout. We would still have to win a race to the mob and kill it. What YOU want is to be able to continue to train and keep people away from VP so you can raid it at your own leisure instead of competing. No offense to ya but let's call a spade a spade here. It is easier for your guild because of the head start. The rules in place allow it so no one can complain about it. But no one is asking for a hand out we are asking for a reasonable discussion about it because the mechanics in the endgame allow for a different raiding environment now. How many times do I have to say this is about more than VP ? Sleepers will be on the server soon as well... No one wants a repeat of VP there either outside of a guild that wants to control it the same way with training. It isn't competition....It is a tool to avoid competition.

FE easily has enough keys to engage and kill a dragon in VP. What is this "headstart" you speak of? With that many keys, it's a moot point. The point, now, is whether or not FE is willing to learn how to play vis-à-vis the VP environment to compete with TMO. But you don't want competition under those terms. You want a handout by the GM's to employ a rule set in VP which will give you a greater leg up. Talk about calling a spade a spade--let's do that. You want loot, and you want it with the greatest ease possible, even if it means GM-enforced rotations which equates the WoW-instance.

This is Everquest. Deal with the game, and learn to play it better. That's just how it is.

[Vianna]

FE easily has enough keys to engage and kill a dragon in VP. What is this "headstart" you speak of? With that many keys, it's a moot point. The point, now, is whether or not FE is willing to learn how to play vis-à-vis the VP environment to compete with TMO. But you don't want competition under those terms. You want a handout by the GM's to employ a rule set in VP which will give you a greater leg up. Talk about calling a spade a spade--let's do that. You want loot, and you want it with the greatest ease possible, even if it means GM-enforced rotations which equates the WoW-instance.

This is Everquest. Deal with the game, and learn to play it better. That's just how it is.

No one wants a leg up. What part of Velious by the end of the year do you not understand Nietche ? Look at the nature of VP now with the training. What happens when more and more guilds kill trakanon and you have more trying to break in their for kills while we are busy killing stuff in Velious ? Training in that zone or sleepers has no place in the raid scene anymore. No one wants a leg up or a handout. They want a stable end game that can't be manipulated.

Everquest isn't a hard game.. "Learn to play better" ? What part of training a guild in any zone makes you a better player on a PVE server ? Seriously tell me how that helps you be a better player in a PVE environment. Now if you want PVP there is a server for that...

[contemptor]

I can't remember the last time BDA was in zone for a CT kill (except for repop day when 40 of you failed to even get draco before we zoned in after you were there for 30 minutes). I don't think even you know what you're talking about, whoever you are.
I haven't done one in while. Last one I was there for was prob a few months ago, where I believe it was Crazyeyes and Aalpha starting DT cycles with eyes.

Sorry we haven't been around enough lately. I'll cut back some hours at work so I can track a few hours a day and then get DTed/trained after a pop.

[Nietche]

Everquest isn't a hard game.

You are wrong. It is hard. That's what makes Everquest so great, compared to other MMO's. If it wasn't hard, Tasslehof never would have made this thread, and you wouldn't be jumping on his bandwagon to end a rule set that has somehow prevented guilds like FE to compete with any sense of organization and leadership. To me, that's your problem (leadership and organization--which stems from said leadership--or lack thereof), not the game.

[Vianna]

You are wrong. It is hard. That's what makes Everquest so great, compared to other MMO's. If it wasn't hard, Tasslehof never would have made this thread, and you wouldn't be jumping on his bandwagon to end a rule set that has somehow prevented guilds like FE to compete with any sense of organization and leadership. To me, that's your problem (leadership and organization--which stems from said leadership--or lack thereof), not the game.

Sorry that you find it hard =/

Baiting with words of organization and leadership comments won't work. No one should have to organize for trains with the current mechanics in the end game added by the staff. They show pretty clearly how they want it to go. Track..When the mob is up mobilize and kill it. The only rule that changes outside of that right now is trains in VP. Which makes no point with FTE shouts added. We can actually just race for that FTE shout instead of spending hours griefing each other with trains.

[Nietche]

Sorry that you find it hard =/

Baiting with words of organization and leadership comments won't work. No one should have to organize for trains with the current mechanics in the end game added by the staff.

Why shouldn't you have to organize for a raid, planning for all contingencies? This sounds as if you want a hand out to me.

[Vianna]

Why shouldn't you have to organize for a raid, planning for all contingencies? This sounds as if you want a hand out to me.

And you just sound like you are baiting. Trains were frowned on in EQ not encouraged. Some say they were allowed in VP and other say they weren't. I never had a problem with trains but not many guilds had VP keyed raid forces. Much less 2 or 3 on a server during Kunark. So no dealing with trains from other guilds during raids was very rare and not part of organizing for most guilds on most servers on live in classic. Hate bursting your bubble continuously.

[quido]

IB had a huge head start and a huge advantage in gear for a time.

You just lack the grit!

[Handull]

Come into my stream and tell me all about it buddy

you make a new stream since getting banned from twitch?

[Nietche]

Hate bursting your bubble continuously.

You're not. You're just on the defensive now. How does that feel?

[Vianna]

You're not. You're just on the defensive now. How does that feel?

Whichever fantasy you like to believe continue good sir.

[Vianna]

IB had a huge head start and a huge advantage in gear for a time.

You just lack the grit!

All of that happened with different mechanics we can agree on that right ? Variance, Variance extension and FTE shouts have been added to the game since then. Why should anyone need grit to play a game ? Jeremy you know I got no problem with you I think or your guild. But even you gotta admit you are using trains to avoid competition at this point. There really isn't a place for it anymore in the game. Not if you really wanted competition.

[quido]

I don't think it's that outrageous to have a different rule set for the hands-down best zone in the game.

Seriously, I know you'll plop 30-40 people on PD's spawn and never leave while he's in window. This is dumb as fuck. Training is far less idiotic than this.

Furthermore, the recent changes are beside the point when it comes to VP; they do nothing to change the issues at hand, nor the probable reasons why the rules are what they are there.

[Vianna]

I don't think it's that outrageous to have a different rule set for the hands-down best zone in the game.

Seriously, I know you'll plop 30-40 people on PD's spawn and never leave while he's in window. This is dumb as fuck. Training is far less idiotic than this.

So yes you are using it to avoid competition ? The same type of competition used at Trak ? =)

[quido]

If Trak was as easy as PD and you guys were sitting on his spawn every time like you assuredly would for PD, you'd probably see me make a post begging for legalized training in Sebilis.

[Nietche]

So yes you are using it to avoid competition ? The same type of competition used at Trak ? =)

I wasn't going to respond to this, but you are clearly out of your element, Vianna. I'm starting to think you're trolling now.

[Handull]

Have you been in VP yet. The reason training is legal is because pathing is fucked. Training is GOING to happen so the GM's decided to make it legal to not have 100000 petitions to go through daily. I figured you already knew about this.

pathing is fucked, but it is also very predicable and consistent. does it have to be said that tmo abuses the broken pathing in vp, and dare i say exploits the pathing by pulling dragons dirrectly through walls to both kill for loot and train on other players with zero intention of killing the mob.

its hilarious how different tmo members contradict each other with regard to what constitutes acceptable training and what is just an angry loser griefing someone else

[Vianna]

I wasn't going to respond to this, but you are clearly out of your element, Vianna. I'm starting to think you're trolling now.

I am not out of my Element I know the differences. But no one is gonna sit on a spawn online in VP. They may camp out yes and race into the game when it spawns. BUT no one will sit there the full duration of PDs window.

[Nietche]

pathing is fucked, but it is also very predicable and consistent. does it have to be said that tmo abuses the broken pathing in vp, and dare i say exploits the pathing by pulling dragons dirrectly through walls to both kill for loot and train on other players with zero intention of killing the mob.

its hilarious how different tmo members contradict each other with regard to what constitutes acceptable training and what is just an angry loser griefing someone else

Have you been to VP lately? Who comes to train TMO on a regular basis? An FE monk. Yes, FE. And, by the way, the pathing in VP doesn't help anyone, especially the mobs going through walls bit.

If people are in VP with zero intention of killing the mob, why are they there? You got it: to train TMO.

[Nietche]

I am not out of my Element I know the differences. But no one is gonna sit on a spawn online in VP. They may camp out yes and race into the game when it spawns. BUT no one will sit there the full duration of PDs window.

They will, Vianna. Count on it. PD offers among the most coveted gear on the entire server. You are sincerely utterly out of your element here.

[Vianna]

If Trak was as easy as PD and you guys were sitting on his spawn every time like you assuredly would for PD, you'd probably see me make a post begging for legalized training in Sebilis.

I can see your point. But even at VS people don't stay camped in constantly and you guys still get VS. Now if you mean it will make you focus more on VP I agree.... But that is the way a raid scene should be... You should have to worry about another guild that earned their keys...not be able to train them so you can have it uncontested.

[quido]

http://i43.tinypic.com/nznk0g.jpg

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=68664

This is why TMO didn't get banned for exploiting in front of that GM. So, why do you even pretend you're legit when everyone knows you're a bunch of talentless faggots?

Get your facts straight, ya moran.

Everyone knows it was Kinsawt (IB) and company paying Amelinda bribes. This is why he's still banned even now when most people are given second chances.

[Vianna]

They will, Vianna. Count on it. PD offers among the most coveted gear on the entire server. You are sincerely utterly out of your element here.

Nietche everyone knows what PD drops....If they didn't it is on the wiki for them to look up. Stop thinking people are ignorant that is why I like Jeremy at least he calls a spade a spade and can reply without some condescending tone. I wouldn't sit there the full duration. I would camp a char out there just like Trak.

[Nietche]

Someone likes you, Jeremy!

[Splorf22]

Seriously, I know you'll plop 30-40 people on PD's spawn and never leave while he's in window. This is dumb as fuck. Training is far less idiotic than this.

TBH they are both dumb as fuck.

[Vianna]

Someone likes you, Jeremy!

=)

[Vianna]

TBH they are both dumb as fuck.

Agreed.

[Handull]

Because while u though u could Train and wipe TMO and get into Vp after getting lucky with a single dragon u didint complained about train police.

Because u know ur real chance actualy to repeat it after u tried the train way for months with no result is to try to ban it.



what you do as always is CRY and cry and cry and moan all over fucking server because it dont benefeits you .

and then you claim TMO is selfish guild when actualy things worked that way for you and ur guild u where very silent , at best u all want is a public outcry probably will never be in vp even when velious is launched because they will not put the time and the effort to get in it.


lets think if tmo want promise a free random loot of any vop dragon to anyone with a key ,, you think if tmo do this u would find any support? .

u just want something forbidden by forum people because in game u are nothing than less to get it .


tmo exploited vp pathing and zone layout by using safe ledges. FE complained to the GMs, submitted fraps of the exploit in action and of what advantage the exploit gave tmo. weeks went by and gms did nothing. FE learned to use the same tricks tmo was using. FE did it better than tmo and gained the upper hand. gms stepped in and forbid anyone from using the exploit tmo came up with and was allowed to grief FE with for weeks, without punishment. same shit happened with IP exemptions and poofing clerics.

tmo says "competition", but its a joke.

[Handull]

Have you been to VP lately? Who comes to train TMO on a regular basis? An FE monk. Yes, FE. And, by the way, the pathing in VP doesn't help anyone, especially the mobs going through walls bit.

If people are in VP with zero intention of killing the mob, why are they there? You got it: to train TMO.

so if i zone in to VP with a rogue because we want to head to plane of sky, serixc won't train us? news flash, the griefing goes both ways. i have sat in VP for hours and watched tmo monks/necros try to train me. as i recall they got me once or twice, but otherwise they got no where. some of them do it in good fun and we are friendly about it, others do it out of pure anger, maybe because they weren't hugged as a child.

my post wasn't about who griefs who, but about the fact that bad pathing doesn't mean trains are going to happen. KC pathing is shitty, but that doesn't mean training is allowed. learn to pull the zone or get suspended when you accidentally train an exp group.

side note: i was in VP two (?) weeks ago and a tmo character rezed me! more news at 11.

[Handull]

Have you been to VP lately? Who comes to train TMO on a regular basis? An FE monk. Yes, FE. And, by the way, the pathing in VP doesn't help anyone, especially the mobs going through walls bit.

If people are in VP with zero intention of killing the mob, why are they there? You got it: to train TMO.

and how does the pathing not help anyone? at least pre patch you could dance mobs over the zone in lava and never get hit, you could pull PD through the wall in 20 seconds to zone in, have no risk of getting adds, no risk of having your pull stolen, barely any risk of having anyone notice the pull and try to train you. you could pull a dragon to the safe ledge in 20 seconds and try to suprise anyone up there, etc. its a straight up exploit that tmo abused and likely still abuses if the game allows it.

[quido]

quiet, Harrison

[quido]

Someone likes you, Jeremy!

Everyone likes me =)

[Handull]

This is relevant to the link.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=68664

This is TMO being caught exploiting, which is a BANNABLE OFFENSE.

Do you really think this is legit anymore people?

that amelinda ruling was WAY before FEs time, and since amelinda is such a special person, no one cares about waht she did. regardless, my point stands, gms didn't step in til after TMO had their fun and was taken down a peg

[Handull]

Please prove that you could not train in VP in live for the 100th time. If not, stfu k thanks!

you don't bother reading this thread, do you? live and p99 servers did not ever allow training, griefing, etc, etc. If they made an exception of any one zone to any of these rules, they did not post it in any GM or Guide handbook, as links to these have been posted. No evidence that training ever happened has been shown so far, only a handful of people saying "you could train in vp on my server" with no proof. sure, the top guild wouldn't have gone around yelling about how cool they were for training another guild out of vp, but you don't think the guild being trained wouldn't have posted about it on a forum or message board somewhere?

training was never allowed on EQ servers as a general rule. the burden of proof is on you to prove that there were ever exceptions to this rule.

[quido]

lol @ Harrison trying so hard to conceal his identity yet not being able to resist

[Vianna]

Appreciate the discussion back and forth although we obviously don't agree with each other. Gonna take a break for a bit. As usual wish you guys the best.

[Nietche]

This is relevant to the link.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=68664

This is TMO being caught exploiting, which is a BANNABLE OFFENSE.

Do you really think this is legit anymore people?

Really grasping at straws here.

[Kingore]

You really think there aren't fraps of VP out there for everyone to watch ? /shrug. It's EQ there isn't much to assess.

I'm real glad that you think watching a fraps of people in VP makes you think you know anything about the zone and it's mechanics here.

[Tasslehofp99]

I'm real glad that you think watching a fraps of people in VP makes you think you know anything about the zone and it's mechanics here.

Why do you support training in VP?

[Vianna]

I'm real glad that you think watching a fraps of people in VP makes you think you know anything about the zone and it's mechanics here.


Alright =)

You are entitled to your opinion. Even if it is wrong.

[Brut]

Like how this "VP cant have proper competition cuz pathing is bad and trains are unavoidable!"-story is copy pasted from uncle Zeelot who was making this crappy excuse in the first place. 98% of the folks repeating it here haven't pulled a single damn thing there.

Maybe it's slightly more challenging with invis pull nerfed so rogues cant easymode solo run it to zonein, but ultimately there's nothing going on with pulling VP dragons that we're not already seeing at several other raid targets. Inny/CT good examples, Trak also.

[Wildino]

The only special flag GMs did on live about VP is they will not rescue any corpse/group/guild dead there. And this was a previous warning, before any guild was able to enter in VP.

You TMO's are pathetics. No need to provide a proof that training was not allowed in the past, that's a standard EQ rule. YOU must provide a proof that's SoE/verant allowed it in VP. Where is it ?

I dont fucking understand P99 GM's here. The only reason i see behind is RMT. Tell me another reason to keep things like this ?

[Sckrilla]

Man I lvled Netta up just to play in train warz with FE because I was tired of sitting around for 8 hours twiddling my thumbs and pre-camping. Then I hit 60 and FE doesn't even want to play in VP anymore... =\ They just grief train with absolutely no intent to engage dragons for hours on end. Silly.

[Tasslehofp99]

The only special flag GMs did on live about VP is they will not rescue any corpse/group/guild dead there. And this was a previous warning, before any guild was able to enter in VP.

You TMO's are pathetics. No need to provide a proof that training was not allowed in the past, that's a standard EQ rule. YOU must provide a proof that's SoE/verant allowed it in VP. Where is it ?

I know, right!

[falkun]

I hear a lot of "VP is true competition" going around in this thread. Its only true competition because its the closest thing to PVP the Blue server has. I told TMO to go to Red99 a long time ago if they wanted competition, because there you can actually engage your opponent instead of the "push them off the ledge" PVP we have here (good analogy whomever wrote it). Brutillus' analogy of playing an FPS PVP with all the weapons banned also fits really well. If you want competition, go to a server where all players (and not just 3-4 classes) can engage in the competition.

The only reason the server's raid scene sucks is because the players make it suck. Even if training remained legal in VP, if the server's players were reasonable people from the internet of the early 2000's instead of 2013 internet dickwads, there would be zero problems with the raid scene without a single rule change. Europa publicly apologizing for Ragefire a month ago, BDA splitting raid targets with the server during TMO's last suspension, and the server-wide Ragefire agreement were all fantastic examples of hope for the server, regardless of what official rules exist from CSR. The problem is there is precisely one guild (and friends within said guild insist its even just a subset of that guild) are content being internet dickwads, and this server can only be as strong as its weakest link.

The best thing to come out of this thread is that I followed Ele's advice.

[Alarti0001]

So yes you are using it to avoid competition ? The same type of competition used at Trak ? =)

You call poopsocking competition? There isn't skill involved its random chance.

[Alarti0001]

pathing is fucked, but it is also very predicable and consistent. does it have to be said that tmo abuses the broken pathing in vp, and dare i say exploits the pathing by pulling dragons dirrectly through walls to both kill for loot and train on other players with zero intention of killing the mob.

its hilarious how different tmo members contradict each other with regard to what constitutes acceptable training and what is just an angry loser griefing someone else

Its actually not consistent. Are you serious? Every time we pull we really have no idea what its going to do. Maybe Xygoz will walk down the tunnel today, maybe he will get stuck on some geometry and path back and forth for 15 minutes... maybe he will ninja phase through a wall and end up in the lava or on our raid. You never know.

[Alarti0001]

tmo exploited vp pathing and zone layout by using safe ledges. FE complained to the GMs, submitted fraps of the exploit in action and of what advantage the exploit gave tmo. weeks went by and gms did nothing. FE learned to use the same tricks tmo was using. FE did it better than tmo and gained the upper hand. gms stepped in and forbid anyone from using the exploit tmo came up with and was allowed to grief FE with for weeks, without punishment. same shit happened with IP exemptions and poofing clerics.

tmo says "competition", but its a joke.

Actually the no bullshit scenario was. TMO used ledges to keep the raid safe... when we pulled a mob we jumped down to ground level to fight them. We didn't pull it up on the ledge to stop your ability to train us.
FE however, used the ledges to pull raid mobs up and tried to kill them there. This was caught on Fraps with your PD attempt.

If you think this is the same thing, your mind is a lost cause.

[Ele]

The best thing to come out of this thread is that I followed Ele's advice.

<3

[timhutton]

If Trak was as easy as PD and you guys were sitting on his spawn every time like you assuredly would for PD, you'd probably see me make a post begging for legalized training in Sebilis.

Wow. So you actually admit to not wanting classic EQ "competition"? You would rather have griefing and training than people knowing spawn-timers and showing up with a force to kill a target?

That's ridiculous.

[FenninEQaddict]

Well let's open that discussion right here. It doesn't have to be in private. This is a good forum for discussion right here. Let's see who is actually for or against making VP a true competition instead of who can train the best. I mean when the skill you brag about most as a player is the size of the train and how many people it killed...That sounds like PVP and not PVE.

TMO is skilled enough to kill targets without training another guild in VP. They demonstrate that when no one competes against them. Why not let all raid mobs be a race ? Just like the current ones outside of VP. They still have the numbers advantage as it stands on the server. They will still likely get most the mobs in VP with the number of keys they have for the zone and with variance they will likely have the larger force when mobs spawn at random times. Let's just discuss removing the aspect of training allowed in VP and future zones and make it a race like for any other mob. It is a benefit to all guilds to remove this. It means if you win the race you get your shot at it regardless of the size of your guild. If the larger guild can't field a force to win a race...That is on them and there should be no backdoor way out of it for anyone via training.

Im sure TMO or any guild that was in VP would be alot more open to racing if it didnt take just 1-2 of a rival guild to get FTE and loot. If the dragons were based off raid force and engage and kill instead of who gets the FTE shout then it might be different. I have read and heard complaints about a guild getting FTE with 1 group or less on raid targets then the rest of their force rolls into zone or even doesnt show up and they get credit for the kill.

VP dragons from what I know take a raid force to kill and FTE shouts just interfere with that. Your single monk/sk/necro who has been following a raid gets FTE what is TMO of FE supposed to do back off die to the dragon/ae and the spend 20+minutes cr because a lone monk/SK/Necro feels they can solo a dragon.

Also from what I hear the crying here about training your guild FE has solo griefers in VP for the only purpose of to train TMO while they are raiding. So the hypocrisy of this thread is amazing. 1 monk will never be able to kill a dragon there on this server but if skilled can sure kill a raid. So the moral high ground doesnt work here. And anyone who knows about your guilds training habits in VP when they cant mobilize a force to kill the dragons knows this.

I think the GMs, and Guides have made the best of a bad situation since VP is a drama melting pot on this server. There will always be someone crying foul there whether its TMO/FE/IB/FC or one of the other VP key'd guilds and if they run to it everytime something happens they would have no time to help the people who actually need it.

[Ele]

Im sure TMO or any guild that was in VP would be alot more open to racing if it didnt take just 1-2 of a rival guild to get FTE and loot. If the dragons were based off raid force and engage and kill instead of who gets the FTE shout then it might be different. I have read and heard complaints about a guild getting FTE with 1 group or less on raid targets then the rest of their force rolls into zone or even doesnt show up and they get credit for the kill.

VP dragons from what I know take a raid force to kill and FTE shouts just interfere with that. Your single monk/sk/necro who has been following a raid gets FTE what is TMO of FE supposed to do back off die to the dragon/ae and the spend 20+minutes cr because a lone monk/SK/Necro feels they can solo a dragon.

If training is within the "ruleset" and used with reckless abandon, then why is sniping FTE, which is also in the "ruleset", all of a sudden bad and not competition?

[Vianna]

Im sure TMO or any guild that was in VP would be alot more open to racing if it didnt take just 1-2 of a rival guild to get FTE and loot. If the dragons were based off raid force and engage and kill instead of who gets the FTE shout then it might be different. I have read and heard complaints about a guild getting FTE with 1 group or less on raid targets then the rest of their force rolls into zone or even doesnt show up and they get credit for the kill.

VP dragons from what I know take a raid force to kill and FTE shouts just interfere with that. Your single monk/sk/necro who has been following a raid gets FTE what is TMO of FE supposed to do back off die to the dragon/ae and the spend 20+minutes cr because a lone monk/SK/Necro feels they can solo a dragon.

Also from what I hear the crying here about training your guild FE has solo griefers in VP for the only purpose of to train TMO while they are raiding. So the hypocrisy of this thread is amazing. 1 monk will never be able to kill a dragon there on this server but if skilled can sure kill a raid. So the moral high ground doesnt work here. And anyone who knows about your guilds training habits in VP when they cant mobilize a force to kill the dragons knows this.

I think the GMs, and Guides have made the best of a bad situation since VP is a drama melting pot on this server. There will always be someone crying foul there whether its TMO/FE/IB/FC or one of the other VP key'd guilds and if they run to it everytime something happens they would have no time to help the people who actually need it.


Again this isn't about FE vs. TMO this is about the end game of the server now. You make Valid points about the FTE shout which I will get back to. Training in VP is legal at the moment so anyone that does it isn't in the wrong and I never said they were whether it be TMO/FE/IB whomever. I wasn't calling anyone out on training. I was discussing the validity of it's use in the end game at this time and the future. It's a griefing tool and a stalling tool that is easily misused by any guild in VP that has keys in VP.

Now to return to FTE shouts. Obviously we can set some kind of standard if someone is making a pull and gets to the dragon first to start the pull. As long as the puller is alive and making his way back to where his raid is camped it won't be interfered with etc.These are things that can be discussed. Just don't interfere with the race for the mob with trains or a valid pull to a raid...Or an engaged mob by a raid. It's things to work out sure but there can be some general agreements made to work within the mechanics GMs have given us.

Alas I doubt it will happen as stated before. There is a culture there now as even you pointed out of bad blood between guilds and individuals that is hard to overcome. I just want to point out my thoughts are my own not those of a guild. I have no malice towards anyone and I am not calling out a guild for doing anything wrong. I was just thinking of a way to make it better for everyone involved. Obviously it takes some standard agreements beforehand.

[Alarti0001]

If training is within the "ruleset" and used with reckless abandon, then why is sniping FTE, which is also in the "ruleset", all of a sudden bad and not competition?

Training helps remove some of the bad from FTE. FTE battles in VP = long long long CR's.

[Nirgon]

VP and Sleeper's were no CSR involvement zones. The rule here isn't "training allowed in VP" the rule is "no CSR involvement in VP". This is classic.

[Ele]

VP and Sleeper's were no CSR involvement zones. The rule here isn't "training allowed in VP" the rule is "no CSR involvement in VP". This is classic.

Did you read the thread dude?

GMs said that the P99 rule has nothing to do with the non-CSR zone/guidebook from live.

Just as an exercise, since the guidebook doesn't have relevance to this discussion. Let's apply the guidebook to P99 (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=97723). We find that non-CSR zones included Plane of Hate, Fear, Sky, Growth, Mischief, and ToV in addition to VP/Sleeper's. Using that same logic applied in the quote above, would mean these zones would also be hands off and anything goes. But you can't really do that when you see what the "Exception Incidents" (Abuse, Disruption, or Exploitation) and those exceptions allow CSR intervention. Training clearly falls within the scope of "abuse" and "disruption".

Abuse is defined as any activity that is exercised with the intent of disrupting the over all play environment of one or more players.
Disruption is defined as any activity that is disruptive to the game play of others, though not necessarily with the intent to do so. Disruption has been sub-categorized into major and minor types.

[SCB]

You are wrong. It is hard. That's what makes Everquest so great, compared to other MMO's.

If you think classic EQ is hard, or in any way has end-game content comparable to even the most piss-easy modern MMO, then you are just so beyond terrible at video games that it's almost impossible to describe.

The biggest downside of classic EQ is that, aside from pulling, raids are almost stupidly easy. With people on this server trivializing pulls by training zones in circles, the raid scene is arguably the easiest ever conceived in any game anywhere.

Chill out with this "skill" nonsense. You guys are terrible at video games. Your one saving grace is that you are available to play more frequently than other people. That's not your most defining trait, though. Your most defining trait is your willingness to crap all over a server in your quest for the best pixels. You claim this is somehow a positive, and that others need to "get on your level."

Your level is "embarrassing." You're bad, and you should feel bad.

Training helps remove some of the bad from FTE. FTE battles in VP = long long long CR's.

Get better, scrub.

[Alarti0001]

If you think classic EQ is hard, or in any way has end-game content comparable to even the most piss-easy modern MMO, then you are just so beyond terrible at video games that it's almost impossible to describe.

The biggest downside of classic EQ is that, aside from pulling, raids are almost stupidly easy. With people on this server trivializing pulls by training zones in circles, the raid scene is arguably the easiest ever conceived in any game anywhere.

Chill out with this "skill" nonsense. You guys are terrible at video games. Your one saving grace is that you are available to play more frequently than other people. That's not your most defining trait, though. Your most defining trait is your willingness to crap all over a server in your quest for the best pixels. You claim this is somehow a positive, and that others need to "get on your level."

Your level is "embarrassing." You're bad, and you should feel bad.



Get better, scrub.

LoL, .... get it?

[SCB]

LoL, .... get it?

I don't know what any of this means. Why is lol followed by both a comma and an ellipsis? Is this a code I don't get? Are you making an obscure League of Legends reference?

[Nirgon]

Did you read the thread dude?



Hand on the Bible? No, lol. Did not read. Do not care. Shit's classic, man up.

[Alarti0001]

I don't know what any of this means. Why is lol followed by both a comma and an ellipsis? Is this a code I don't get? Are you making an obscure League of Legends reference?

Yes you know where those really good gamers play lol. I was in essence comparing your rant about skill to the entire mindless 12 year old community that plays LoL and DoTA actively. Of course this isn't a reflection of the sane people who play there just, Shaddup noob lolwtfBBQ crowd which you seem to want to emulate.

[Alarti0001]

Shit's classic, man up.

Battle between the classic crew. Inner strife!

I agree though shit is classic.

[Nirgon]

Your honor, the defense calls Shit's Classic to the stand

[SCB]

Yes you know where those really good gamers play lol. I was in essence comparing your rant about skill to the entire mindless 12 year old community that plays LoL and DoTA actively. Of course this isn't a reflection of the sane people who play there just, Shaddup noob lolwtfBBQ crowd which you seem to want to emulate.

This was a really bizarre post for you to make. You have been calling everyone who doesn't want training in VP or whatever other thing you want to pass as "competition" bad for as long as you have been posting. You are the definition of the "Shaddup noob lolwtfBBQ" crowd.

[Alarti0001]

This was a really bizarre post for you to make. You have been calling everyone who doesn't want training in VP or whatever other thing you want to pass as "competition" bad for as long as you have been posting. You are the definition of the "Shaddup noob lolwtfBBQ" crowd.

No I have debated points and pointed out errors and explained how they were errors. You just said... this stuff eazy... u bad... u bad at games...

Plz continue !

[SCB]

No I have debated points and pointed out errors and explained how they were errors. You just said... this stuff eazy... u bad... u bad at games...

Plz continue !

I'm pointing out the error in the argument "EverQuest is hard" - or did you not read my post?

[Alarti0001]

I'm pointing out the error in the argument "EverQuest is hard" - or did you not read my post?

I did. It was your opinion vs Nietche's opinion. Opinions are not fact. Just because your opinion differs from Nietche's does not make you correct. Even if you get a majority backing your opinion it is still not correct since its an opinion based on your interpretation of a set of criteria.

[radditsu]

Im sure TMO or any guild that was in VP would be alot more open to racing if it didnt take just 1-2 of a rival guild to get FTE and loot. If the dragons were based off raid force and engage and kill instead of who gets the FTE shout then it might be different. I have read and heard complaints about a guild getting FTE with 1 group or less on raid targets then the rest of their force rolls into zone or even doesnt show up and they get credit for the kill.

VP dragons from what I know take a raid force to kill and FTE shouts just interfere with that. Your single monk/sk/necro who has been following a raid gets FTE what is TMO of FE supposed to do back off die to the dragon/ae and the spend 20+minutes cr because a lone monk/SK/Necro feels they can solo a dragon.

Also from what I hear the crying here about training your guild FE has solo griefers in VP for the only purpose of to train TMO while they are raiding. So the hypocrisy of this thread is amazing. 1 monk will never be able to kill a dragon there on this server but if skilled can sure kill a raid. So the moral high ground doesnt work here. And anyone who knows about your guilds training habits in VP when they cant mobilize a force to kill the dragons knows this.

I think the GMs, and Guides have made the best of a bad situation since VP is a drama melting pot on this server. There will always be someone crying foul there whether its TMO/FE/IB/FC or one of the other VP key'd guilds and if they run to it everytime something happens they would have no time to help the people who actually need it.


I admitted I trained in VP for hours. Because I was trained in VP for hours. It doesn't make it right. I feel if I was training you and you had fraps, the character should be suspended at the least. It's not competition. It's the definition of stupidity. It is the reason I took a break. It's a bad rule. Bad rules should be discussed. Looks like training is frowned upon by the community, if were one to go by the vote.

The only people who seem to be in favor of it is one guild that gets the main benefit of it. The only people from that guild who are speaking out against the rule are A) TMO's known forum trolls or B) TMO's known trainers. Training is a PVP tool and should be on a PVP server. I play on blue servers to enjoy myself and not be griefed by assholes.

The pathing IS messed up in there. But someone with knowledge can pull PD right every time with minimal risk. I have seen him warp through the walls in different ways. But as soon as he is through your puller can flop/accept the rez box/coh and the adds never warp. The dragons are too big for the way the pathing nodes are setup. Trakanon has the same issue when you do not immediately engage after a shroom. He will run through a wall.

The pull and raid cohesion was always the real challenge of EQ. Which is simple as pie in Vent.

I have been here long enough to realize any kind of reasoned response will ultimately fall on deaf ears. ESPECIALLY when it comes at any concession by anybody. I swear it is worse than congress. I understand why this comes up from time to time, but the glacial pace that any changes would/should be developed would make the situation a moot point. Community focused approaches have no place here. Not when the paitents are running the Asylum. Not when they have a vested interest in controlling loot for power/RMT/epeen.

BDA tried to be the Jesus of the server. Jesus has no place here. FE tried to be the black panther movement. It worked better than the Jesus movement, but ultimately failed once TMO started investing "resources" back into the game.

Nothing will change until people that CAN do something DO something. The non-raiding community (the majority) will not do something because they have no dog in the fight, and can get raid items for platinum. The people who want to raid but have wife and kids and are real adults can only do so much. The non-TMO hardcore raiders from time to time bloody the machine's nose, but are ultimately disillusioned by friends leaving to the machine(Cecily, although i get why), or burnout of minimal gains with maximum effort. 24 hour train wars to kill a dragon who drops a couple of toy weapons should not be anyone's idea of fun. My 16 month old has a better grasp on sharing and cooperation than some of the grown ass men on this server.


Bottom line: If you kill enough trakanon's to have the keys, you should be able to fight the endgame on a blue server unmolested. PVP rules should not be implemented on a Blue server. It is a bad rule.

[Alarti0001]

Bottom line: If you kill enough trakanon's to have the keys, you should be able to fight the endgame on a blue server unmolested. PVP rules should not be implemented on a Blue server. It is a bad rule.

Kunark has been out too long.

[Joroz]

Close VP... this zone creates way more problems than it solves...

[Raavak]

Kunark has been out too long.This rule has been in place so long. Why the whining now?

[SCB]

I did. It was your opinion vs Nietche's opinion. Opinions are not fact. Just because your opinion differs from Nietche's does not make you correct. Even if you get a majority backing your opinion it is still not correct since its an opinion based on your interpretation of a set of criteria.

I'll let this guy handle my response.

My 16 month old has a better grasp on sharing and cooperation than some of the grown ass men on this server.

[radditsu]

Kunark has been out too long.

Not disputing that in the least.

[Acrux Bcrux]

What part of Velious by the end of the year do you not understand

I heard that in 2012 too. Velious by Christmas! yeah okay rofl

[Vianna]

I heard that in 2012 too. Velious by Christmas! yeah okay rofl

I never heard a GM say that in 2012. I heard rumors. Sirken actually said the end of the year is the goal for release.

[FenninEQaddict]

FE would poopsock PD for a week straight just like they do VS if it wasn't for the current ruleset. I think we should extend the VP rules to the VS pit in KC.

From what I hear then TMO would be training itself alot more often in VS pit?

[Nirgon]

They say EQ doesn't take skill.

Yet.

Some people despite the same amount of time played have much less to show for it.

Worse, some people constantly train, don't keep their group buffed, feign death while a mob is mid cast, don't train skills...

Maybe EQ doesn't require skill and success is based on a matter of basic motorskills, decision making and common sense. I guess you can call those things skills, and EQ being based on them makes the game skill related.

Who are you kidding? Skill of course is involved, lol.

[SCB]

They say EQ doesn't take skill.

Worse, some people constantly train, don't keep their group buffed, feign death while a mob is mid cast, don't train skills...

Who are you kidding? Skill of course is involved, lol.

I'm saying classic EQ endgame doesn't require even a tenth of the skill of even the easiest modern MMO's endgame, not that you can succeed at it while being ignorant of how to actually play the game. I say this only to refute the "You're just mad because we're better" arguments that you're spewing. That shit would maybe fly on Red, but definitely not on Blue.

It's really easy for you to score those points when you keep moving the goal posts, ya know?

[Alarti0001]

I never heard a GM say that in 2012. I heard rumors. Sirken actually said the end of the year is the goal for release.

Also mentioned was according to timeline, and earlier this summer.

[Nirgon]

Gear keeps dropping, loop holes keep getting found. Yeah the goal post moves a bit.

However many derps here who are decked out in WoW epics can't crack the newly classic fungi camp.

[Alarti0001]

I'm saying classic EQ endgame doesn't require even a tenth of the skill of even the easiest modern MMO's endgame, not that you can succeed at it while being ignorant of how to actually play the game. I say this only to refute the "You're just mad because we're better" arguments that you're spewing. That shit would maybe fly on Red, but definitely not on Blue.

It's really easy for you to score those points when you keep moving the goal posts, ya know?

Not sure if serious. Modern MMO's require you to have a pulse and button mash. You have aggro dropping mechanics inherent in the game. Modern mmo's mechanics consist move out of red glowy stuff!!, dont stand here, and only dps during this time. Punishment for violating this mechanics is usually somewhat minor compared to punishment for losing aggro, or getting aggro when you shouldn't in classic EQ.

[Nirgon]

I'll say EQ end game doesn't require a tenth of the hotkeys or button mashing HEH

Preparation and execution is #1 here, not DDR finger skills

[radditsu]

They say EQ doesn't take skill.

Yet.

Some people despite the same amount of time played have much less to show for it.

Worse, some people constantly train, don't keep their group buffed, feign death while a mob is mid cast, don't train skills...

Maybe EQ doesn't require skill and success is based on a matter of basic motorskills, decision making and common sense. I guess you can call those things skills, and EQ being based on them makes the game skill related.

Who are you kidding? Skill of course is involved, lol.

Velious does take skill. Even velk or dain takes a bit of skill. Getting to Zlandicar can take some skill. Klandi/Sont take skill simply due to being outside + dragon fear, which can be an issue in WW.

The only real mobs that take skill now is gore due to the fact she can become a 60k dragon if she gets a cheal off, and hosh due to his ae being a wtf pwn. Nexona used to be semi difficult but I think they fixed her Harm Touch.

[SCB]

Gear keeps dropping, loop holes keep getting found. Yeah the goal post moves a bit.


I'm referring to you changing the conversation so you keep seeming like you're right. It's similar to what Alarti does, but less retarded than how he does it.

About the fungi camp - if you're not holding the camp by actually sitting down there and fighting the mobs, then you really don't have room to discuss anything being "difficult." You're bypassing difficulty through creativity, which is admirable and imo what EQ is really about (because it isn't about difficulty, as I've been saying). However this destroys the point you're trying to argue, which is that you're somehow better at the game than everyone else who presses auto-attack and then watches a movie on their second monitor.

[Zapatos]

I'm surprised this hasn't moved to RNF yet!

Ok here's a good question: WHY is ninja looting not allowed in VP while training people who aren't raiding is?
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=57267&highlight=veeshan%27s+peak+ninja+loot
Ninja looting is not a raid dispute. It is an individual basis.

So... if I take a stroll through VP on an "individual basis" to walk to plane of sky... and darkdeath, aalpha, bruce, sericx or w/e you spell that bad monks name, etc etc come to try and train me for fun, that's still totally fine when put up next to a ruling like the above?

There, I pointed out an inconsistency.

[Ravager]

I'm surprised this hasn't moved to RNF yet!

Ok here's a good question: WHY is ninja looting not allowed in VP while training people who aren't raiding is?
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=57267&highlight=veeshan%27s+peak+ninja+loot


So... if I take a stroll through VP on an "individual basis" to walk to plane of sky... and darkdeath, aalpha, bruce, sericx or w/e you spell that bad monks name, etc etc come to try and train me for fun, that's still totally fine when put up next to a ruling like the above?

There, I pointed out an inconsistency.

Poor Anthrax.

[Nietche]

If you think classic EQ is hard, or in any way has end-game content comparable to even the most piss-easy modern MMO, then you are just so beyond terrible at video games that it's almost impossible to describe.

The biggest downside of classic EQ is that, aside from pulling, raids are almost stupidly easy. With people on this server trivializing pulls by training zones in circles, the raid scene is arguably the easiest ever conceived in any game anywhere.

Chill out with this "skill" nonsense. You guys are terrible at video games. Your one saving grace is that you are available to play more frequently than other people. That's not your most defining trait, though. Your most defining trait is your willingness to crap all over a server in your quest for the best pixels. You claim this is somehow a positive, and that others need to "get on your level."

Your level is "embarrassing." You're bad, and you should feel bad.



Get better, scrub.

This is the most terrible post I've ever read.

[Sarius]

I'm surprised this hasn't moved to RNF yet!

Ok here's a good question: WHY is ninja looting not allowed in VP while training people who aren't raiding is?
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=57267&highlight=veeshan%27s+peak+ninja+loot


So... if I take a stroll through VP on an "individual basis" to walk to plane of sky... and darkdeath, aalpha, bruce, sericx or w/e you spell that bad monks name, etc etc come to try and train me for fun, that's still totally fine when put up next to a ruling like the above?

There, I pointed out an inconsistency.

This is actually a really interesting point. Is training by one person a raid dispute or an individual action? If training is allowed then ninja looting should be as well.

[Nirgon]

I'm referring to you changing the conversation so you keep seeming like you're right. It's similar to what Alarti does, but less retarded than how he does it.

I'm taking pieces of the argument and fleshing them out, or describing what is really going on. He has a nasty habit of doing this too. It's even worse when we pull together things that have happened historically. If I was in many people's position reading it and then challenging their position, it would definitely irk me.

[Autotune]

Modern mmos take more player skill than EQ does.

Here, it's all about 5 or so people knowing what the fuck to do and setting up the other 20-50 and then getting the target to those 20-50 and then having those 20-50 attack when told to attack.

The rest is all about what gear you are rocking in EQ.

[zanderklocke]

Modern mmos take more player skill than EQ does.

Here, it's all about 5 or so people knowing what the fuck to do and setting up the other 20-50 and then getting the target to those 20-50 and then having those 20-50 attack when told to attack.

The rest is all about what gear you are rocking in EQ.

^ Agree. It's weird because you would think that on a PVE server the challenge would be fighting the environment's mobs, but this is not at all the case. The difficult part on this server is the environment of players; it's like blue is a wannabe be PVP server.

[getsome]

A long time ago in a galaxy far far away, we were told VP had no GM involvement. In those very early days, TMO killed a VP dragon. After the VP dragon was dead IB killed all the TMO survivors. IB was ready to delete the loots on the dead dragon. Then out of thin air Rogean appeared and ruled VP did have rules and that IB would suffer consequences if we looted the dead dragon's corpse who we were now standing over with no TMO in zone. This was a guild on guild event.

I am merely providing everyone pro or con with context regarding a decision made by the head man in charge during the very early days of VP.

[timhutton]

A long time ago in a galaxy far far away, we were told VP had no GM involvement. In those very early days, TMO killed a VP dragon. After the VP dragon was dead IB killed all the TMO survivors. IB was ready to delete the loots on the dead dragon. Then out of thin air Rogean appeared and ruled VP did have rules and that IB would suffer consequences if we looted the dead dragon's corpse who we were now standing over with no TMO in zone. This was a guild on guild event.

I am merely providing everyone pro or con with context regarding a decision made by the head man in charge during the very early days of VP.

FWIW I believe it was determined that ninjalooting would be considered a server rule or part of the PnP or some shit? That was the justification as to why it would be handled by a GM. The same type of thing that occured when VD was mem-blurring mobs, because it was "exploiting a bug" it didn't matter that occured in VP.

Basically:

the show where everything's made up and the points don't matter

Just substitute points for rules.

[Nirgon]

A long time ago in a galaxy far far away, we were told VP had no GM involvement. In those very early days, TMO killed a VP dragon. After the VP dragon was dead IB killed all the TMO survivors. IB was ready to delete the loots on the dead dragon. Then out of thin air Rogean appeared and ruled VP did have rules and that IB would suffer consequences if we looted the dead dragon's corpse who we were now standing over with no TMO in zone. This was a guild on guild event.

I am merely providing everyone pro or con with context regarding a decision made by the head man in charge during the very early days of VP.

I'll give you that one.

[Sarius]

A long time ago in a galaxy far far away, we were told VP had no GM involvement. In those very early days, TMO killed a VP dragon. After the VP dragon was dead IB killed all the TMO survivors. IB was ready to delete the loots on the dead dragon. Then out of thin air Rogean appeared and ruled VP did have rules and that IB would suffer consequences if we looted the dead dragon's corpse who we were now standing over with no TMO in zone. This was a guild on guild event.

I am merely providing everyone pro or con with context regarding a decision made by the head man in charge during the very early days of VP.

I really don't see how you can have one rule and not the other. Makes no sense whatsoever. So if you were to keep training them so they cannot loot the mob and the loots rot, that is ok? If you loot the mob with 1 second left on timer and nobody from killing guild anywhere near it, that's ninja looting?

[timhutton]

I really don't see how you can have one rule and not the other. Makes no sense whatsoever. So if you were to keep training them so they cannot loot the mob and the loots rot, that is ok? If you loot the mob with 1 second left on timer and nobody from killing guild anywhere near it, that's ninja looting?

Yes.

[getsome]

I really don't see how you can have one rule and not the other. Makes no sense whatsoever. So if you were to keep training them so they cannot loot the mob and the loots rot, that is ok? If you loot the mob with 1 second left on timer and nobody from killing guild anywhere near it, that's ninja looting?

No.

[Fazlazen]

A long time ago in a galaxy far far away, we were told VP had no GM involvement. In those very early days, TMO killed a VP dragon. After the VP dragon was dead IB killed all the TMO survivors. IB was ready to delete the loots on the dead dragon. Then out of thin air Rogean appeared and ruled VP did have rules and that IB would suffer consequences if we looted the dead dragon's corpse who we were now standing over with no TMO in zone. This was a guild on guild event.

I am merely providing everyone pro or con with context regarding a decision made by the head man in charge during the very early days of VP.

Oh is that the story of when Zeelot shit on your entire guild Getsome? :D

[hatelore]

Velious does take skill. Even velk or dain takes a bit of skill. Getting to Zlandicar can take some skill. Klandi/Sont take skill simply due to being outside + dragon fear, which can be an issue in WW.

The only real mobs that take skill now is gore due to the fact she can become a 60k dragon if she gets a cheal off, and hosh due to his ae being a wtf pwn. Nexona used to be semi difficult but I think they fixed her Harm Touch.

Rumbleroot definitely wasn't a chump.

[getsome]

Are you the same person who begged us to let you have vox after you had not gotten one mob on a server reset? And then after we left you and your raid force got ported out for being above level 52+ and we came in with our alts to kill it?

[kotton05]

I keep goin thru vp and it's empty. I Like the new mechanics and pathing.

I'm for training. Made a few friends during it, not sure about enemies>_<

[Tasslehofp99]

Wow. So you actually admit to not wanting classic EQ "competition"? You would rather have griefing and training than people knowing spawn-timers and showing up with a force to kill a target?

That's ridiculous.

Yeah, right?

[quido]

I think we should all agree to a week of VP rules (training allowed) everywhere and see how it goes.

[radditsu]

I think we should all agree to a week of VP rules (training allowed) everywhere and see how it goes.

Sounds great

[Tiggles]

Yeah, right?

What happened to your character?

[quido]

Yeah Tasslehoff, why'd you get deleveled, stripped, and deguilded? At least TMO let you join

[Tasslehofp99]

I think we should all agree to a week of VP rules (training allowed) everywhere and see how it goes.

I would support this, or the opposite. Suspend training in VP for a week or two and see how it goes. May be more fun than you think!


What happened to your character?

Nothing.

Yeah Tasslehoff, why'd you get deleveled, stripped, and deguilded? At least TMO let you join

I didn't, you love me so much that you decided to make a character named "Tasslehoff" for some really strange reason!

[quido]

prove it

[Handull]

Actually the no bullshit scenario was. TMO used ledges to keep the raid safe... when we pulled a mob we jumped down to ground level to fight them. We didn't pull it up on the ledge to stop your ability to train us.
FE however, used the ledges to pull raid mobs up and tried to kill them there. This was caught on Fraps with your PD attempt.

If you think this is the same thing, your mind is a lost cause.

so tmo never pulled xygoz/nexona/etc to that ledge purely to train members of FE who were rezzing and buffing?

also not sure how you think the pathing isn't predicable. sorry you can't work out the basic logic behind different ways to pull and different paths the mob will take. you consistently pulled dragons through the walls every time I watched you, so even if you dont understand the pulls, your pull team sure does.

edit: so its not exploiting if you just buff/rez/coth up there, and its not an exploit to pull dragons up there, but it is an exploit to fight dragons up there, where they can fully melee and aoe the entire raid? hmmm, then home come the rule is no one can go up there, period?

[kotton05]

chain pulled nexona thru walls in hopes of killing our clerics once we got to that lil spot in the sky... before that rule changed.

[Tiggles]

so tmo never pulled xygoz to that ledge purely to train members of FE who were rezzing and buffing?

also not sure how you think the pathing isn't predicable. sorry you can't work out the basic logic behind different ways to pull and different paths the mob will take. you consistently pulled dragons through the walls every time I watched you, so even if you dont understand the pulls, your pull team sure does.

prove it

[Tasslehofp99]

chain pulled nexona thru walls in hopes of killing our clerics once we got to that lil spot in the sky... before that rule changed.

There is a fraps of this around somewhere, Zapatos was the one who recorded it I believe. Either way, Training is not classic. Has no place in raiding scene, and needs to be removed asap.

It's not competitive, its lame as fuck.

[Alarti0001]

so tmo never pulled xygoz/nexona/etc to that ledge purely to train members of FE who were rezzing and buffing?

also not sure how you think the pathing isn't predicable. sorry you can't work out the basic logic behind different ways to pull and different paths the mob will take. you consistently pulled dragons through the walls every time I watched you, so even if you dont understand the pulls, your pull team sure does.

edit: so its not exploiting if you just buff/rez/coth up there, and its not an exploit to pull dragons up there, but it is an exploit to fight dragons up there, where they can fully melee and aoe the entire raid? hmmm, then home come the rule is no one can go up there, period?

It was changed to simplify things. You understand that the original rule was made by nilbog and amelinda. The revised rule was made by nilbog and sirken. Have a problem with rules changing as more information is gather?

[Rhuma7]

A long time ago in a galaxy far far away, we were told VP had no GM involvement. In those very early days, TMO killed a VP dragon. After the VP dragon was dead IB killed all the TMO survivors. IB was ready to delete the loots on the dead dragon. Then out of thin air Rogean appeared and ruled VP did have rules and that IB would suffer consequences if we looted the dead dragon's corpse who we were now standing over with no TMO in zone. This was a guild on guild event.

I am merely providing everyone pro or con with context regarding a decision made by the head man in charge during the very early days of VP.

VP doesn't have rules til it doesnt benefit TMO OR stupid ass rule is cool until it shows how fucking stupid it is.

[pasi]

I'm saying classic EQ endgame doesn't require even a tenth of the skill of even the easiest modern MMO's endgame, not that you can succeed at it while being ignorant of how to actually play the game. I say this only to refute the "You're just mad because we're better" arguments that you're spewing. That shit would maybe fly on Red, but definitely not on Blue.

It's really easy for you to score those points when you keep moving the goal posts, ya know?

You are correct, but you're picking a terrible place for this argument. This board is going to be filled with EQ-enthusiasts that want validation that the game they play is difficult. We've beaten this to death on FoH, and pretty much everyone with some sense realizes that EQ circa 2000 is significantly easier at the high-end than the modern MMOs (who would have thought a genre would actually - you know - progress). Simply put, mashing buttons and avoiding bad stuff is more difficult than hitting 1 or 2 buttons and not avoiding anything.

You can still love EQ while realizing the genre has progressed a long ways.

[Tasslehofp99]

You are correct, but you're picking a terrible place for this argument. This board is going to be filled with EQ-enthusiasts that want validation that the game they play is difficult. We've beaten this to death on FoH, and pretty much everyone with some sense realizes that EQ circa 2000 is significantly easier at the high-end than the modern MMOs (who would have thought a genre would actually - you know - progress). Simply put, mashing buttons and avoiding bad stuff is more difficult than hitting 1 or 2 buttons and not avoiding anything.

You can still love EQ while realizing the genre has progressed a long ways.

I wouldn't consider button mashing and "more stuff to avoid" progress.

[pasi]

I wouldn't consider button mashing and "more stuff to avoid" progress.

I would consider more interactive combat and interactive environments progress within the genre. With that said, I'm not saying it makes for a superior game. For example, Age of Conan's combat was progress in the genre, but it didn't make for a better game.

Edit: Anyhow, I don't want to derail a good thread. So, I'm done.

[coachblea]

Why is the sky blue?
Why does Coke taste better than Pepsi?
Why cant the Cowboys get over a 500 record?
Why did A-Rod takes steroids?

Cant answer any of these questions but it is what it is. Deal with it

How Dare You? Pepsi is way better than Coke. Coke as a company is horrible, they don't pay commission and treat their employees like crap. You sir must be from Atlanta or have just plain terrible taste. Can't believe the things these kids say. [mutter, mutter]

[quido]

Pepsi is disgusting

[Tasslehofp99]

http://getvideoartwork.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=83781&g2_serialNumber=2

Tassellhoff sounds like a REAL SWELL CRYBABY

This isn't rants and flames, this post was meant to bring up a valid discussion regarding a rule in place regarding Veeshan's Peak. Obviously from the poll numbers(even though a small sample) a good portion of the server feels its not right.

Training does not equal skill, it is griefing and nothing else. There is nothing competitive about training, in fact it destroys competition. Most of the keyed VP players on this server would probably agree with me on this when I say zoning into VP isn't even worth it under the current rule set. It isn't fun at all, and it's far from what VP was on live EQ servers despite what some folks may say.

That is all.

[Gustoo]

You guys need to get over to red and just kill eachother allready this is ridiculous.

[HawkMasterson1999]

I vote no, but making them PvP would be interesting

[Vandy]

Prove it?

And you looked through Afterlife's archives please show me this too because I raided with Afterlife. Again prove it. Your word is shit here Tassle. As I said, this is your thread, you have the burden of proof.

Mith Marr was a cutthroat server. Anyone from Mith Marr that plays on P99 can attest to that. Why do you think Cats and Hats left the server? Now dont get me wrong. Afterlife did some stuff to make the community happy. Open Hate/Fear raids for free loots. But when it came to contested mobs it was get the hell out the way or get ran over. Aka VP training.

I know one of the original co-leaders of CiH and I also played on Mith Marr at the time. He told me that they butted heads with AL consistently on VS and Trak but transferred off the server before anyone even went into VP and there was no such training.

[Nirgon]

Rename rants and flames to:

Rants, Flames and 20+ page whines

[Wrei]

You must have missed the FE boat when they went into VP, guess you didn't hear. They killed Druushk with the same rules implemented now. As far as dedication and motivation to stick it out and keep getting kills is another story. And the whole "they have more trainers then us" is complete bullshit. FE in there prime had a shit ton of them. Proof is in the pudding - skill over numbers.

Come on that IS funny :D

So in short, Rogean seems to say it isn't like live and we implemented training cause I don't have to explain myself to you guys (or have my judgement questioned) but open to changes if warranted. Sirken seems to favour Darwinism to take place, fight fire with fire and earn respect by being bigger douches than TMO.

Instead of logically trying to explain how it's better one way or another, it would be nice to have a server poll started by the server staff (to prevent trolling) that asks everyone if they are happy with the current raiding rules/policies. If the server sits at 50/50 then status quo should be preserved. If there is however an overwhelming side towards changes another poll should then be started regarding "viable" alternative rules.

I say viable, because it's clear this is still a privately run emu and not all options would be realistically available (especially those that require increased moderation or coding modifications). If the server staff isn't even willing to do that then one of the players should start the thread here. Those who are passionate about changes should then spread the word through word of mouth on the server and keep the poll running for about a week. Anything over 500+ responses should be pretty legitimate. If that doesn't prompt changes from the staff then I doubt very little would change the policy. At that point you just need to get with the program or GTFO.

Each side has their own arguments with its own flaws and merits. This shouldn't be arguing pointlessly about who is right but more about if people are happy playing under current conditions.

[radditsu]

http://getvideoartwork.com/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=83781&g2_serialNumber=2

Tassellhoff sounds like a REAL SWELL CRYBABY

P99 is more like
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/510MSJZ5GNL.jpg

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Just as long as sleeper's isn't like this we can just forget the zone in say...6 months? :3

[Elizabetha]

It's just a shame that training is employed. I understand the circumstances that make folks treat each other like dirt over nothing. It's a shame.

[Alarti0001]

Come on that IS funny :D

So in short, Rogean seems to say it isn't like live and we implemented training cause I don't have to explain myself to you guys (or have my judgement questioned) but open to changes if warranted. Sirken seems to favour Darwinism to take place, fight fire with fire and earn respect by being bigger douches than TMO.

Instead of logically trying to explain how it's better one way or another, it would be nice to have a server poll started by the server staff (to prevent trolling) that asks everyone if they are happy with the current raiding rules/policies. If the server sits at 50/50 then status quo should be preserved. If there is however an overwhelming side towards changes another poll should then be started regarding "viable" alternative rules.

I say viable, because it's clear this is still a privately run emu and not all options would be realistically available (especially those that require increased moderation or coding modifications). If the server staff isn't even willing to do that then one of the players should start the thread here. Those who are passionate about changes should then spread the word through word of mouth on the server and keep the poll running for about a week. Anything over 500+ responses should be pretty legitimate. If that doesn't prompt changes from the staff then I doubt very little would change the policy. At that point you just need to get with the program or GTFO.

Each side has their own arguments with its own flaws and merits. This shouldn't be arguing pointlessly about who is right but more about if people are happy playing under current conditions.

The best human entertainment comes from conquering something you perceive to be greater than yourself or by strife. If there wasn't competition for mates/resources/whatever humanity would die of boredom. Due to scarcity some percentage of humanity will always be unhappy(provided scarcity exists forever). So doing a poll on whether or not people are happy is really a moot point. This is a raid scarcity server... people will be unhappy if what they want is raids. Just like people were un-happy in leveling zones the past week when so many more people were exping.

[Nietche]

If there wasn't competition for mates/resources/whatever humanity would die of boredom.

Which is what would happen if the GM's gave in to a re-distribution of wealth motive for "leveling the playing field" by making the acquisition of hand-outs easier.

[radditsu]

Which is what would happen if the GM's gave in to a re-distribution of wealth motive for "leveling the playing field" by making the acquisition of hand-outs easier.

It's not a hand out

It's about not being a dick.

There is a difference.

[Tasslehofp99]

It's not a hand out

It's about not being a dick.

There is a difference.

This.


I don't get why people think sanctioned training in VP creates some kind of mega-competitive atmosphere. Most of the VP keyed players don't even want to waste their time zoning into VP just to get trained by a bunch of griefers. It simply isn't worth their time and being able to train/countertrain is not difficult. In fact its nothing more than typing /target assholetrainingmonkornecro and /spam bladestopper. WOW, THAT IS SO HARD TO DO GUYS. Why should we have to derail trains to have a shot at legitimately killing a dragon? How does this make sense? How is this classic? What is the logic behind it?

The point is training shouldn't be allowed, it wasn't on live. It ruins more people's fun than it provides for the select few who are able to train. Look at the poll numbers, they likely speak volumes about how the raiders on this server feel about this situation.