Why is training allowed on p99 in veeshan's peak? (poll asking your opinion)

[doraf]

Is dispel currently working as intended? Is FD currently working as intended?

Remove that foot from your mouth. FD is not a known bug. Casting a dispel on someone out of group is. GM's say training in VP is legal, GM's say exploiting bugs are not legal.

This isn't really that difficult. Why is it so hard for you?

You need to seriously step up your thought processes if we are ever going to get married. I can't accept you as you are.

Remove your foot from your mouth first genius. You and others took the stance that the zone was No-CSR and that training being banned would cause extra petitions. Yet watching Tiggles streams you were the guys complaining about people "Training to grief". Yet you defend it. Your guildies first dispelled people in VP and it got returned to them after Xerxes called out in Vent that he was getting dispelled by one of your members. What did you do ? Immediately petitioned it. Huge Irony there. Something you don't feel should be in VP and that you can't control with numbers...You petitionquest..Even after your guild were the ones doing it first.

It's kinda funny to watch your spin on everything Alarti. How you really can't see how big a Hypocritical windbag you are is beyond comprehension. =)

"Non-Disputable Zones
Zones deemed Non-Disputable will have no CSR interaction on raid disputes. We will not respond to or take any action on raid disputes involving these zones. Currently the only zone that this applies to is Veeshan's Peak."

Didn't Sirken respond that VP was a no CSR zone and left it at that, so TMO ran to Rogean who then sided with them? That's like mommy said, no so run and ask daddy then.

FYI, cancel magic on players outside of the group was part of classic EQ. It was never a bug, but it was abused. VI later patched it to only effect NPC's and group members.

[Alarti0001]

Remove your foot from your mouth first genius. You and others took the stance that the zone was No-CSR and that training being banned would cause extra petitions. Yet watching Tiggles streams you were the guys complaining about people "Training to grief". Yet you defend it. Your guildies first dispelled people in VP and it got returned to them after Xerxes called out in Vent that he was getting dispelled by one of your members. What did you do ? Immediately petitioned it. Huge Irony there. Something you don't feel should be in VP and that you can't control with numbers...You petitionquest..Even after your guild were the ones doing it first.

It's kinda funny to watch your spin on everything Alarti. How you really can't see how big a Hypocritical windbag you are is beyond comprehension. =)

LOL... A whole lot of accusations there..... a whole lot of Proving needed. We defend training if you attempt a raid mob... but training with no intention to raid is lame. Its legal sure but just lame. Guess you got confused on the differences there(I'm not really surprised). Who dispelled first the FE or the TMO? You say FE I can say TMO. Either way I don't know the truth and only have hearsay. A wise person wouldn't listen to hearsay.
What I will go off of is actions. TMO petitioned the bug once it was discovered and told its members not to do it. Shinko, Tasslehof and others were all warned not to dispel as it was an exploit.
So keep spinning. TMO will always petition bugs/exploits that aren't working as intended. FE members will always cry when illegal griefing tools are removed. FE has lots of experience with exploits. Remember the Memblur exploit some of your members as VD used for weeks? Oh history how enjoyable you are.

Dispel has nothing to do with VP. Exploiting dispel shouldn't be in any zone. There is a difference between exploits, and training even if you fail to see it.


But, please call factual information "spinning". I do so love when you are mad you are even more illogical than normal.

[Alarti0001]

"Non-Disputable Zones
Zones deemed Non-Disputable will have no CSR interaction on raid disputes. We will not respond to or take any action on raid disputes involving these zones. Currently the only zone that this applies to is Veeshan's Peak."

Didn't Sirken respond that VP was a no CSR zone and left it at that, so TMO ran to Rogean who then sided with them? That's like mommy said, no so run and ask daddy then.

FYI, cancel magic on players outside of the group was part of classic EQ. It was never a bug, but it was abused. VI later patched it to only effect NPC's and group members.

Outside of group, yes... outside of guild tag.... no :)

[Funkutron5000]

TMO members would never exploit anything!

http://www.youtube.com/v/BlfM3t1yYEc?color2=FBE9EC

[doraf]

Outside of group, yes... outside of guild tag.... no :)

You have to go back even earlier than that. At one time you could cast Cancel Magic on any player. One of my best memories in early EQ (minus the minor illusion bug on Felwithe castle) was griefing the hell out of another group in Unrest with it.

[Lorraine]

TMO will always petition bugs/exploits that aren't working as intended.


LoL'ed

[Alarti0001]

TMO members would never exploit anything!

http://www.youtube.com/v/BlfM3t1yYEc?color2=FBE9EC

That member got punished accordingly. Did xeli who did the same thing? Nope.

Shaddup peon.

Difference is Xeli wa splayed by your Officer Lucabrazi. The dispellers in VP were played by your Officer Shinko. This demonstrates a trend of exploiting that stems from your central leadership.

[falkun]

That member is still guilded with TMO. When a BDA applicant stole a ground drop (legal on P99) from a TMO, his application was summarily terminated. Do not pretend to care about honor and integrity when you provide alts/PL for suspended/banned members (see: Sericx and his multiple training suspensions). Actions speak louder than words.

[Godefroi]

That member got punished accordingly. Did xeli who did the same thing? Nope.

Shaddup peon.

Difference is Xeli wa splayed by your Officer Lucabrazi. The dispellers in VP were played by your Officer Shinko. This demonstrates a trend of exploiting that stems from your central leadership.

like Eccezan asking in the TMO guildchat to only cheat on unflagged toons ?

You fail at forumquest lately my pasty and lonely friend

[Vianna]

LOL... A whole lot of accusations there..... a whole lot of Proving needed. We defend training if you attempt a raid mob... but training with no intention to raid is lame. Its legal sure but just lame. Guess you got confused on the differences there(I'm not really surprised). Who dispelled first the FE or the TMO? You say FE I can say TMO. Either way I don't know the truth and only have hearsay. A wise person wouldn't listen to hearsay.
What I will go off of is actions. TMO petitioned the bug once it was discovered and told its members not to do it. Shinko, Tasslehof and others were all warned not to dispel as it was an exploit.
So keep spinning. TMO will always petition bugs/exploits that aren't working as intended. FE members will always cry when illegal griefing tools are removed. FE has lots of experience with exploits. Remember the Memblur exploit some of your members as VD used for weeks? Oh history how enjoyable you are.

Dispel has nothing to do with VP. Exploiting dispel shouldn't be in any zone. There is a difference between exploits, and training even if you fail to see it.


But, please call factual information "spinning". I do so love when you are mad you are even more illogical than normal.


Who's mad ? I was just yanking your chain for being a hypocrite that blows hot air. Training shouldn't be a part of the game and you know it. If GMs can respond to petitions in VP about one they can the other. Case closed. The No-CSR excuse doesn't work when you have CSR.

[Alarti0001]

Who's mad ? I was just yanking your chain for being a hypocrite that blows hot air. Training shouldn't be a part of the game and you know it. If GMs can respond to petitions in VP about one they can the other. Case closed. The No-CSR excuse doesn't work when you have CSR.

Go re read the gm's posts to educate yourself. GM's close cases they see to disagree with you. Derp

[Alarti0001]

That member is still guilded with TMO. When a BDA applicant stole a ground drop (legal on P99) from a TMO, his application was summarily terminated. Do not pretend to care about honor and integrity when you provide alts/PL for suspended/banned members (see: Sericx and his multiple training suspensions). Actions speak louder than words.

What happened to Nuffwin today who ninja looted our VS piece. Just curious.

[Alarti0001]

like Eccezan asking in the TMO guildchat to only cheat on unflagged toons ?

You fail at forumquest lately my pasty and lonely friend

Visceral is lonely and a virgin. Go update your meetic profile.

[quido]

When a BDA applicant stole a ground drop (legal on P99) from a TMO, his application was summarily terminated.

So how about when a BDA member (Nuffwin) knowingly ninjaloots a stone from VS and quick tries to go do the handin and gets stopped by a GM?

[Lorraine]

Alarti triple-post of rage, Jeremy with the co-co-co-combobreaker

ya morans

[Tasslehofp99]

stop RNF'ing my thread jackasses, im reporting all of the morons who can't get this concept

[Alarti0001]

Alarti triple-post of rage, Jeremy with the co-co-co-combobreaker

ya morans

I replied to three separate people, with three separate posts. I guess that indicates rage. ! Next time I will make 1 post with @Names to assure you I am not upset.

[Alarti0001]

stop RNF'ing my thread jackasses, im reporting all of the morons who can't get this concept

Your thread is RnF its title includes a GM rule and whether or not it is bullshit. Report thyself moran

[Tasslehofp99]

Your thread is RnF its title includes a GM rule and whether or not it is bullshit. Report thyself moran

The thread title is asking the players on the server's opinion of said rule, which rogean has already said in this post may or may not be up for discussion/revision in the future. Drive through, troll.

[Autotune]

Rogean gave info to find the answer to the question. I posted the answer and Ambrotos confirmed it. This thread should have been locked after that point.

[Dragonmist]

80 pages thats some really bored people heh Useless ...

[Ele]

http://web.archive.org/web/20010204094300/http://www.eqatlas.com/kunark/veeshanspeak.html

Here is Verant's official statement regarding the Peak:

We recommend that only the most advanced and organized players in the game even attempt to enter this zone. The customer service staff (GMs and Guides) will not assist players in any way in regards to this zone. This includes help for issues such as unrecoverable corpses (see your local Necromancer), or characters finding themselves stuck (see your local Magician), bugs, etc. The only assistance that will be offered by customer service reps in this zone are those covered by the Play Nice Policies.

- Gordon

[timhutton]

Rogean gave info to find the answer to the question. I posted the answer and Ambrotos confirmed it. This thread should have been locked after that point.

That is not the case at all.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1069125&postcount=711

Also, Ambratos thinks that the zone should not be FFA:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1069205&postcount=713

[timhutton]

http://web.archive.org/web/20010204094300/http://www.eqatlas.com/kunark/veeshanspeak.html

Here is Verant's official statement regarding the Peak:

We recommend that only the most advanced and organized players in the game even attempt to enter this zone. The customer service staff (GMs and Guides) will not assist players in any way in regards to this zone. This includes help for issues such as unrecoverable corpses (see your local Necromancer), or characters finding themselves stuck (see your local Magician), bugs, etc. The only assistance that will be offered by customer service reps in this zone are those covered by the Play Nice Policies.

- Gordon

Ya we pretty much summarily determined that on page 69, but nobody seems to care since "this isn't live": http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=117238&page=69

[Ele]

Ya we pretty much summarily determined that on page 69, but nobody seems to care since "this isn't live": http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=117238&page=69

I know. I was digging for other stuff, but ran across that thought I would throw it in here. :D

[Arteker]

That is not the case at all.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1069125&postcount=711

Also, Ambratos thinks that the zone should not be FFA:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1069205&postcount=713

i think u mean Ambrotos, u should speak with him , more seriusly he know very well the game inside of vp and played hard:p

hope u come back soon ambro b we stil have to finish l our debate of why football is called soccer in usa.

[salimoneus]

You have to admit that it does seem lame that you can train the shit outta the engaging party all day long, and prevent them from getting the "phat lewt", but even if you're the "last man standing" you cannot touch the phat lewt yourself.

So it's sorta like an "anything goes" zone but not really, these other rules still apply. It's hard to blame someone for looting after applying an allowed strategy such as training, which forces them to have a mentality of malintent. Once you get someone in that mindset, it's quite difficult for them to instantly snap out of it. I mean, to have the desire to completely wipe out the other party, you must tell yourself that they are not going to cash in no matter what. I can't say that I would have acted differently in a similar situation. Do you want to be a committed soldier and go all the way, or be a bitch and pull out at the very end and maybe let someone from the other side get their loot?

[Autotune]

That is not the case at all.

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1069125&postcount=711

Also, Ambratos thinks that the zone should not be FFA:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1069205&postcount=713

What he thinks it should be and the reason it is the way it is, are two different things.

Why is training allowed on p99 in veeshan's peak?

Has been answered.

[Servellious]

Can train entire guilds raid. Cant cast dispell magic shit is hilarious news rules just pop up as people bitch about them

[Tasslehofp99]

Rogean gave info to find the answer to the question. I posted the answer and Ambrotos confirmed it. This thread should have been locked after that point.

http://web.archive.org/web/20010204094300/http://www.eqatlas.com/kunark/veeshanspeak.html

Here is Verant's official statement regarding the Peak:

We recommend that only the most advanced and organized players in the game even attempt to enter this zone. The customer service staff (GMs and Guides) will not assist players in any way in regards to this zone. This includes help for issues such as unrecoverable corpses (see your local Necromancer), or characters finding themselves stuck (see your local Magician), bugs, etc. The only assistance that will be offered by customer service reps in this zone are those covered by the Play Nice Policies.

- Gordon


Autotune keep your nonsense in RNF please you don't belong on any serious conversation regarding this server any longer as you have been banned. Also, where have you seen any answer given to "why is training allowed in VP?" or any kind of justification of said policy? I mean, Im not trying to call the GM's out but there have been ALOT of new raiders getting involved in the raid scene who aren't quite sure why such rules are enforced. Every day another player joins the raiding scene, so the rules which were deemed appropriate/functional for 2 years ago may not be appropriate/functional for the raiding scene as it is now.




PS -- Thanks ele for digging that up, I for one appreciate your continued efforts towards correcting a situation on the server that obviously a good portion of the raiders on here feel needs correcting!

[quido]

I'm trying to think of the benefits of Tasslehof and his guild sitting on Phara Dar's spawn for a week straight like they sometimes do Venril Sathir.

I got one: the server will see more total Phara Dars, assuming Tasslehof and his 7-day poopsock guild don't wipe.

I'm coming around here - there's hope yet.

[Autotune]

What he thinks it should be and the reason it is the way it is, are two different things.

Why is training allowed on p99 in veeshan's peak?

Has been answered.

[Tasslehofp99]

I'm trying to think of the benefits of Tasslehof and his guild sitting on Phara Dar's spawn for a week straight like they sometimes do Venril Sathir.

I got one: the server will see more total Phara Dars, assuming Tasslehof and his 7-day poopsock guild don't wipe.

I'm coming around here - there's hope yet.

Why do you continually post here with nothing constructive to offer other than trollbait posts?

[Clark]

Can train entire guilds raid. Cant cast dispell magic shit is hilarious news rules just pop up as people bitch about them

[quido]

Are you people so dense as to really not understand the difference? Hey, maybe they should make it so we can cast snare and nukes on each other too!

[Clark]

Are you people so dense as to really not understand the difference? Hey, maybe they should make it so we can cast snare and nukes on each other too!

http://s13.postimg.org/njoh1ffo7/zzzzzzzzzzzzz.jpg

[Tasslehofp99]

Are you people so dense as to really not understand the difference? Hey, maybe they should make it so we can cast snare and nukes on each other too!

Whats the difference between casting offensive spells on one another and training eachother besides the fact that a player is doing the damage in one case, and an NPC in another?


Its the same shit, meta pvp vs real pvp...if you want a FFA zone may as well go full retard with it and turn on PVP.

[quido]

I'm talking about things that are intended vs things that aren't.

ya morans

[Clark]

I'm talking about things that are intended vs things that aren't.

ya morans

http://s16.postimg.org/3zsoq30mt/zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.png

[t0lkien]

Dude, you have so totally missed the meme:

http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/get-a-brain-morans

[Clark]

haha that's a good one

[Arteker]

Whats the difference between casting offensive spells on one another and training eachother besides the fact that a player is doing the damage in one case, and an NPC in another?


Its the same shit, meta pvp vs real pvp...if you want a FFA zone may as well go full retard with it and turn on PVP.

would you use duping in vp because is a ffa zone?

[Clark]

would you use duping in vp because is a ffa zone?

http://s2.postimg.org/za384zncp/zzzzzzzz.jpg

[Arteker]

Why do you continually post here with nothing constructive to offer other than trollbait posts?

because admit it it u guys would do that , be honest and call it . one thing is to race for a mob, win or lose there is a chance for both guilds. popsock just made shit even worse.

i know u would like to us to return to 15 first in spawn point rule if it benefeits your guild and only ur guild for such mobs .

yet u claim alot of non life posts and cry when mobs go extended mega windows like when u guys popsock vs for 3 extra days extended window .


and this isnt a flame why u guys didint event attemp vp when tmo was in repop, just ignored all raid mobs and go for vp .
u guys dont even bother to go to vp if isnt to train or attemp to delay.


u guys have the keys u guys even have more experience in trains than all previus guilds squashed agaisnt tmo in vp.

yet u guys dont try nada when just 3 tmo players pop to play the game ?.

i remember aswell FE politic to Vp key first train capable classes and not regular ones.

[Godefroi]

and this isnt a flame why u guys didint event attemp vp when tmo was in repop, just ignored all raid mobs and go for vp .
u guys dont even bother to go to vp if isnt to train or attemp to delay.




Because TMO doesn't need VP loot beside for their new scrub apps or their OGs' 4th alt.

It's fun to delay a raid for 10 hours when you don't need anything in there, then when ever the way is clear and the no lives are tired or outta addies that's when the raid happens. Outta 30 VP Ready FE , 10 will have fallen asleep , outta 60 VP ready TMO, 45 will still log in and that's plenty to melt anything in there.

You can try hard andro, you're just not gonna be able to justify your guild's stance on VP and the way the server reacted ot it.

Capische ?

[Laugher]

http://s16.postimg.org/3zsoq30mt/zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.png

lol this one I missed too.. until:

http://nomadsland.guildportal.com/GuildFiles/482491/morans.JPG

[quido]

ya morans

[Laugher]

lmao every time I see that word now I think of the guy in the picture with the sign in his hand

[timhutton]

What he thinks it should be and the reason it is the way it is, are two different things.

Why is training allowed on p99 in veeshan's peak?

Has been answered.

I'm sorry, where has this been answered? Did you even read my post, where I went through and showed that the reason was NEVER announced anywhere in either the patch notes when VP was opened, or in the thread where it was determined that VP was going to be a FFA zone: http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1060800&postcount=226

Where else on these forums (or in this thread) was this ever addressed by anything other than anecdotal evidence and conjecture of what people "remember"?

Remembering something or thinking you know why things happened are not the same as finding evidence or hearing from the person that made the decision themselves. At the start of this this thread, people were claiming they "Remembered" intentional training occuring all the time in VP on their server. on page 69, and again on page 80 elethia, vianna, and I were able to factually prove that training in VP has always been against the PnP enacted on live. So much for memory.

I have no interested in what you, or anyone else regarding the situation remember. I have my own opinions and memories but that doesn't help either.

Where is the post/comment from the people that made this decision explaining why it was made? It's entirely possible I'm missing it and it is out there, if that's the case then please link it.

Just don't bother telling me what you remember, I don't care. I want to see facts.

[Autotune]

You'll have to do some research for the exact news post that implemented it, I'm sure that contains information. Or perhaps your fellow players will help. I'm not here to answer your question about why every policy exists, just to fix your misconceptions.

You're still comparing it to eqlive in the rest of your post. It's not an EQLive related policy. You should stop doing that.

I honestly didn't read many responses to Rogean, so I never seen your reply. However, from what I remember, VP is the way it is due to the fact that IB and TMO were always petitioning raids and that VP had/has horrible pathing. I was there before it opened and was there when it was opened and the months following.

I am pretty sure both of those reasons were stated, one reason VP was supposedly delayed and then forced to roll for mobs was because of all the shit slinging months prior (supposedly).

Pretty much this is what I remember. I think Rogean even made a post. Now that there is FTE, and a lot has changed on the server I don't see why the zone should be a FFA. Haven't been able to read all 72 pages yet, so if I am wrong, then I am wrong.

It was said, It is known.

P.S. The PnP policy means absolutely nothing to how things were actually handled, so you factually proved nothing. A policy and how a Policy is enforced are two completely different things, I would think that you guys could, at the very least, grasp that.

[Nietche]

Pretty much this is what I remember. I think Rogean even made a post. Now that there is FTE, and a lot has changed on the server I don't see why the zone should be a FFA. Haven't been able to read all 72 pages yet, so if I am wrong, then I am wrong.

Pretty sure you're wrong. The pathing is still bad; dragons go through walls; trains happen accidentally far too often; you're asking for no sleep as a GM.

Also, see Rogean's post on this.

[Nietche]

/guildwar doesn't work, but it needs to be implemented.

Omg I agree with you on something.

[Nietche]

Why do people keep using the argument that if training weren't allowed in VP that petitions would increase to some ungodly number? How would it be any different than any of the other encounters in the game?

Is it due to the assumed poor pathing that would cause "accidental" trains? Is it due to the fact players would have to be careful around each other?

Why are we under the assumption...

Spend even 1 hour attempting a raid in VP, and you'll know the answer to all of your stupid questions. There are no assumptions.

[Nietche]

yet when you guys first dispell people then get it returned to you

Get your facts straight, Dodo Bird.

[Wotsirb401]

It has been stated by several GM's, non CSR. Nothing is illegal unless stated. Hence if there was no rmt post on the boards, then RMT would be legal

[Nietche]

Or just review frapses of trains and deal enough 2 week bans until either enough of FEs or TMOs are suspended until VP becomes a "contested" zone and not a train fest anymore.

How does that sound to you ?

I'm sure GMs will sleep just as fine. In fact, they can do what ever they want if they want to make VP more classic, they just will and you will have to comply.

You can't always tell from a fraps if a train in VP is accidental unless you're right on top of the trainer, in which case you're probably going to die. And you may not be able to tell if the trainer is doing it on purpose to boot. The only thing you can tell from a fraps is if (1) the train is blatant (such as Xerxes or Huen fd'ing on top of a raid; getting up to re-agro; fd'ing; etc.) or (2) if the trainer is obviously using the pathing (which is supposedly fixed) to his advantage (and his foes' disadvantage).

Someday, when you go to VP with a raid force, you're going to find that your puller is going to kill the raid a lot through accidental trains, mostly due to buggy pathing. With 2 or more guilds in VP contending for the same dragon, accidental trains are going to happen all night buddy. And I do mean accidental. There will be 50 petitions an hour.

And great gnashing of teeth.

[Splorf22]

FWIW the train rules don't distinguish between intentional and unintentional.

[Nietche]

FWIW the train rules don't distinguish between intentional and unintentional.

All the more reason to keep training in VP legal. Sakuragai, you were in VP with TMO collecting rot loot from us. You know how it works.

[Vianna]

Get your facts straight, Dodo Bird.

I do have them straight. Try to actually have a conversation without acting like a 5 year old.

[sanforce]

WTB /guildwar

[nilbog]

I see VP pathing being discussed. Without getting into the whole point of this thread..

Pathing was updated for VP last patch by our new pathing developer. When discussing the path file .. are you guys talking about current pathing, or pathing since VP was released? It's been changed for little under a month now with no reports.

[sanforce]

are you guys talking about current pathing, or pathing since VP was released? It's been changed for little under a month now with no reports.

Current pathing, dragons still pop through the walls occasionally.

[Splorf22]

You know how it works.

Mostly I saw a ton of dragons being pulled to the zone in singly, and Huen training periodically. I mean I'm sure the pullers would train each other by accident some of the time but I think it's relatively hard to hammer the zone in with 10 racnars and wurms accidentally.

[Laugher]

I guess I would've been referring to issues mentioned earlier in the thread (with how long this threads been up I assume that it would've been prior to the recent patch), I myself haven't seen VP on this server but for the sake of convenience I foreshortened some of the conversation in the thread to one post a couple pages ago:)

*edit*: woops I guess I did that about 10 pages ago haha

[timhutton]

It was said, It is known.

P.S. The PnP policy means absolutely nothing to how things were actually handled, so you factually proved nothing. A policy and how a Policy is enforced are two completely different things, I would think that you guys could, at the very least, grasp that.

I'm sorry, I'm just not going to take your (or anyone else who could potentially be biased) memory or recollections with regards to the matter.

I do trust Ambrotos slightly more however. Finding the post by Rogean would be awesome.

That said, if what you say is true, with Ambrotos stating his opinion on the zone not remaining a FFA, and Nilbog chiming in to state that pathing has been fixed for about a month now with no reported issues, I think the more important question is not why was training allowed when the zone was released (almost 2 whole years ago) but rather why is training STILL allowed despite all these fixes, and how do we get it's status reevaluated?'

Would be awesome if someone of authority could offer some insight (Nilbog/Rogean/Sirken).

[spoils]

After reading bits and pieces of this thread and LOLing a lot...

i've come to the conclusion that...

1) Training should be outlawed in ALL zones.
2) GM's should not pop in and rez people for their fuckups, hence no CSR.
3) Simulated Patch Days would really help the entire server and clear up the shitty scene in VP

With ALL 3 pointed implemented, the raid scene here would get better overnight.

The only hope after that is for revamps to occur which will allow certain epics to be somewhat less of a pipedream.

For critics saying "zomg, get more skill to avoid the trains in VP". Skill should simply be judged on the guild's ability to kill the trash mobs before repop and kill the boss based on its scripts, which was intended. If it's too easy then...well i mean...you win eq and congrats! really...after you've won eq, wait for velious.

[Tasslehofp99]

I see VP pathing being discussed. Without getting into the whole point of this thread..

Pathing was updated for VP last patch by our new pathing developer. When discussing the path file .. are you guys talking about current pathing, or pathing since VP was released? It's been changed for little under a month now with no reports.

Throughout the thread we've discussed pathing there, from what I've seen in the zone it seems to be a lot better than when the zone first came out. Although I've only had a VP key about 9-10 months now so I cant speak to how it was on release.

[Autotune]

Throughout the thread we've discussed pathing there, from what I've seen in the zone it seems to be a lot better than when the zone first came out. Although I've only had a VP key about 9-10 months now so I cant speak to how it was on release.

If you aggrod a wurm and didn't stop to let it attack you, it would constantly path back and forth in place until you stopped. they would also fly through the air and wall once your Zaxis differed from their's by so much. It was pretty horrendous.

Also, I wouldn't say that having no reports about pathing being a good thing. Not sure how many people would have kept putting them in since release and hoping that it would get better, I know a few people in IB posted about it and some from TMO as well and it was months without anything really happening. I'm pretty sure most just figured it was there to stay. Basically, if it was changed and no one really said they could tell a difference, it was probably a subtle change.

I'm not using that to advocate training still exist, just saying it would be odd for it to improve a great deal and no one comment on it.

Sirken could easily go into VP and judge the pathing for himself and decide if he wanted him and his CSR peeps to pick up the extra work. The zone is still a clusterfluck with 2 guilds trying to get pulls and navigate together, even when they aren't trying to wipe out the other side.

[Zapatos]

In regards to 'accidental trains' if VP became a non-training zone:

The aggro radius of all monsters in there, other than the 6 named dragons, is extremely small and there are numerous spots to camp a raid where mobs will not be pathing. Additionally, any raid is going to have at least 1 druid or ranger charged with casting harmony on all potential nearby threats, whether engaged or not.

You really have to try to train a raid and it's going to be extremely obvious to anyone watching. I don't think the "VP can still be full of accidental trains" is a valid excuse in the discussion of letting training continue.

[Joroz]

intentional training is different than mobs pathing out of their way and wiping other raids in the zone... and as flying mobs maybe they shouldn't be pulled off the floor to the ledges.

[Autotune]

In regards to 'accidental trains' if VP became a non-training zone:

The aggro radius of all monsters in there, other than the 6 named dragons, is extremely small and there are numerous spots to camp a raid where mobs will not be pathing. Additionally, any raid is going to have at least 1 druid or ranger charged with casting harmony on all potential nearby threats, whether engaged or not.

You really have to try to train a raid and it's going to be extremely obvious to anyone watching. I don't think the "VP can still be full of accidental trains" is a valid excuse in the discussion of letting training continue.

When is the last time you were in VP (legitimate question btw, not snarky remark)?

[Tasslehofp99]

When is the last time you were in VP (legitimate question btw, not snarky remark)?

Vp pathing has been changed in the last update, I was there yesterday and a lot of the pathing issues seem to be resolved. Again, not ALL of them are...but its a lot better than it was when the sanctioned training rules were put in.

[Autotune]

Vp pathing has been changed in the last update, I was there yesterday and a lot of the pathing issues seem to be resolved. Again, not ALL of them are...but its a lot better than it was when the sanctioned training rules were put in.

The last time I went in, was some time after the zone had been turned into an outside zone and the aggro ranges seemed to be slightly larger than when the zone was first released. That's why I was asking him, the pathing was slightly better then too, as wurms rarely pathed in place compared to constantly pathing in place.

[Tasslehofp99]

The last time I went in, was some time after the zone had been turned into an outside zone and the aggro ranges seemed to be slightly larger than when the zone was first released. That's why I was asking him, the pathing was slightly better then too, as wurms rarely pathed in place compared to constantly pathing in place.

The agro range seems fairly small still, Im able to harmony mobs from ranges that would normally result in aggro'ing the mobs in other zones.

[Autotune]

The agro range seems fairly small still, Im able to harmony mobs from ranges that would normally result in aggro'ing the mobs in other zones.

To put it into just how small it was for wurms, you had to pretty much touch their tails to aggro them at release and to aggro a racnar you had to be within about their height before they'd aggro. Drake aggro was pretty small as well, but slightly larger than racnars.

[Zapatos]

When is the last time you were in VP (legitimate question btw, not snarky remark)?

Just the other day. I often go in and run the gauntlet when no one is looking just for fun and b/c it keeps me sharp.

[Autotune]

Just the other day. I often go in and run the gauntlet when no one is looking just for fun and b/c it keeps me sharp.

Ah, good deal then.

If the pathing is much better and the aggro mechanics are decent, I'd say that you guys could definitely push that issue off the table. Still have to get the GMs to want to pick up the petitions from that zone (trains will still happen on contested mobs due to racing/pulling down hallways, limited pull spots, etc), but shouldn't be much worse than contested CTs/VSs/Innys (Well, VS probably doesn't get raced to like before).

[quido]

Regarding the changes to pathing, the changes have helped but they are still a far cry short of being ideal. The changes have made it considerably more difficult to kite trains in perpetuity around the zone-in lava, but a lot of the other issues are still there. Stuff still jumps off its pathing grid and will beeline through the walls and non-space towards their target. The mobs also stick to the pathing grid around the entrance a little more than they probably should.

[Sirken]

Sirken could easily go into VP and judge the pathing for himself and decide if he wanted him and his CSR peeps to pick up the extra work. The zone is still a clusterfluck with 2 guilds trying to get pulls and navigate together, even when they aren't trying to wipe out the other side.
already did this earlier in the week because of this thread. z axis is still messed up. stuff popping through walls still happens. and by staying along a certain set of walls (you know which walls im sure) ANY class can keep the mobs pathing back and over the the zone-in spot forever and safely with relative ease.

So guys, please dont say pathing is fine / fixed, because its not. that being said, part of the agreement with us releasing VP when we did was because we were aware that the pathing wasn't great, players didnt care, so we told them that we would release the zone on the condition that it would be a p99 style non CSR zone, and that essentially the ONLY thing we'd do is enforce rules against cheating the game mechanics, IE: fighting dragons where they are unable to fight back (this is different that EQLive non csr, if anyone quotes the EQLive non CSR rules again im going to tear my eyes out because facepalm doesnt cut for some of you anymore).

[Tasslehofp99]

already did this earlier in the week because of this thread. z axis is still messed up. stuff popping through walls still happens. and by staying along a certain set of walls (you know which walls im sure) ANY class can keep the mobs pathing back and over the the zone-in spot forever and safely with relative ease.

So guys, please dont say pathing is fine / fixed, because its not. that being said, part of the agreement with us releasing VP when we did was because we were aware that the pathing wasn't great, players didnt care, so we told them that we would release the zone on the condition that it would be a p99 style non CSR zone, and that essentially the ONLY thing we'd do is enforce rules against cheating the game mechanics, IE: fighting dragons where they are unable to fight back (this is different that EQLive non csr, if anyone quotes the EQLive non CSR rules again im going to tear my eyes out because facepalm doesnt cut for some of you anymore).

So, is there no hope for the folks who want to raid VP without trains?

[Funkutron5000]

I think it would require a gentleman's agreement, and, well, we know that ain't happening.

[Autotune]

already did this earlier in the week because of this thread. z axis is still messed up. stuff popping through walls still happens. and by staying along a certain set of walls (you know which walls im sure) ANY class can keep the mobs pathing back and over the the zone-in spot forever and safely with relative ease.

So guys, please dont say pathing is fine / fixed, because its not. that being said, part of the agreement with us releasing VP when we did was because we were aware that the pathing wasn't great, players didnt care, so we told them that we would release the zone on the condition that it would be a p99 style non CSR zone, and that essentially the ONLY thing we'd do is enforce rules against cheating the game mechanics, IE: fighting dragons where they are unable to fight back (this is different that EQLive non csr, if anyone quotes the EQLive non CSR rules again im going to tear my eyes out because facepalm doesnt cut for some of you anymore).

Yeah, I figured it hadn't improved that much since the last time I was in (better than release, but not where it really needs to be).

As far as abusing VP pathing... I have no idea what you're talking about :cool:


So, is there no hope for the folks who want to raid VP without trains?

Sirken already mentioned what you could do, but it didn't involve staff stepping in.

Know it's not the answer you wanted, but now you guys have an official response and can move on to solving this problem in another way.

[xarzzardorn]

So, is there no hope for the folks who want to raid VP without trains?

there are plenty of other servers out there. you could even start your own! maybe if you championed a worthy cause that wasn't about pixel welfare for you and your guild you would have greater success.

[Tasslehofp99]

Yeah, I figured it hadn't improved that much since the last time I was in (better than release, but not where it really needs to be).

As far as abusing VP pathing... I have no idea what you're talking about :cool:




Sirken already mentioned what you could do, but it didn't involve staff stepping in.

Know it's not the answer you wanted, but now you guys have an official response and can move on to solving this problem in another way.

Aka wait till velious. /sigh

[Tasslehofp99]

there are plenty of other servers out there. you could even start your own! maybe if you championed a worthy cause that wasn't about pixel welfare for you and your guild you would have greater success.

So you think being able to keep guilds out of a zone through training makes you somehow more entitled to pixels? lol

[Autotune]

Aka wait till velious. /sigh

Wait or maybe see if Nilbog could use any assistance.

IF you guys really wanted some VP mobs, you should push to get the variance removed in VP. Seeing how training is allowed, no one is going to really be able to poop sock and you would have ample time to get raids together with all the non-tmo VP keyed people to take out targets and cause TMO problems.

[xarzzardorn]

So you think being able to keep guilds out of a zone through training makes you somehow more entitled to pixels? lol

nobody is 'entitled' to pixels. constantly trolling the forums to rile up support for rules to benefit you would be a lot less pathetic if FE was still at least trying within the current ruleset. don't you remember how great it felt 6 months ago when you guys killed druushk? not too late to turn back

it could be time to put in a TMO app tasslehof. you are actually a good player; i think your chances are quite good

[timhutton]

already did this earlier in the week because of this thread. z axis is still messed up. stuff popping through walls still happens. and by staying along a certain set of walls (you know which walls im sure) ANY class can keep the mobs pathing back and over the the zone-in spot forever and safely with relative ease.

So guys, please dont say pathing is fine / fixed, because its not. that being said, part of the agreement with us releasing VP when we did was because we were aware that the pathing wasn't great, players didnt care, so we told them that we would release the zone on the condition that it would be a p99 style non CSR zone, and that essentially the ONLY thing we'd do is enforce rules against cheating the game mechanics, IE: fighting dragons where they are unable to fight back (this is different that EQLive non csr, if anyone quotes the EQLive non CSR rules again im going to tear my eyes out because facepalm doesnt cut for some of you anymore).

It's been almost 2 years since VP was released. What can the players who wish to see pathing fixed and training become a complete non-factor inside of VP do to help resolve these pathing issues?

Can there be some sort of binding agreement that players who are in the zone in order to research these pathing issues cannot be trained by TMO, FE, or anyone else?

In his previous post, Nilbog mentioned that the pathing changes have been fixed for over a month now and he has not heard any news from players in regards to poor pathing. TMO is the only guild that spends a considerable amount of time in the zone, and it would appear they have no incentive to report buggy pathing (since they use it to aid their training of others or pull dragons).

How can we change that so that pathing gets fixed? What can we do?

[Shinko]

its fucking bad, TMO still avoids my trains from fake walls and other means

[SCB]

nobody is 'entitled' to pixels.

I dont have a dog in this fight, but it really bugs me that people think "entitled" means something other than it means. Being able to perma-train the entrance to a zone at will entitles you to pixels within said zone, because no one can contest it. TMO absolutely thinks they are entitled to any damn pixels they want, because they have the force to reliably control a majority of said pixels.

en·ti·tle [en-tahyt-l] Show IPA
verb (used with object), en·ti·tled, en·ti·tling.
1.
to give (a person or thing) a title, right, or claim to something; furnish with grounds for laying claim: His executive position entitled him to certain courtesies rarely accorded others.



Any time someone uses the phrase "entitlement generation" I want to punch them in the balls.

[Autotune]

In his previous post, Nilbog mentioned that the pathing changes have been fixed for over a month now and he has not heard any news from players in regards to poor pathing. TMO is the only guild that spends a considerable amount of time in the zone, and it would appear they have no incentive to report buggy pathing (since they use it to aid their training of others or pull dragons).



It's more probable that they didn't even notice any changes, considering IB and TMO both reported the bad pathing from the start.

[timhutton]

It's more probable that they didn't even notice any changes, considering IB and TMO both reported the bad pathing from the start.

I disagree but anyway that isn't my point, so let's not detract too far from it.

The players need to know what information they can gather, or what kind of things they can do to more quickly help the dev's fix the pathing problems and nobody is going to want to zone into VP under fear of being trained to poke around and look for issues.

The fact things were "fixed" a month ago, and the devs/gms have not received any comments that things are still broken is alarming.

It has been 2 years, what can we do to help?

P.s. this question is directed straight at devs/gms not players.

[Autotune]

I see VP pathing being discussed. Without getting into the whole point of this thread..

Pathing was updated for VP last patch by our new pathing developer. When discussing the path file .. are you guys talking about current pathing, or pathing since VP was released? It's been changed for little under a month now with no reports.

Nilbog does not state that pathing in VP was fixed, doesn't even hint to it. He said it was updated, doesn't mention how much of an update or anything.

If you didn't want someone to respond to a particular part of your post and detract from your "point" perhaps you should have removed it. You can speculate all you want on the reason why things are and I can freely correct you on it.

The devs aren't just going to come here and answer every question you have either, they have shit to do. Players need to understand realistically how they can help. If you have skills that could be useful, make it known. There are obvious channels on how to go about donating your time and applying to help.

[timhutton]

Nilbog does not state that pathing in VP was fixed, doesn't even hint to it. He said it was updated, doesn't mention how much of an update or anything.

If you didn't want someone to respond to a particular part of your post and detract from your "point" perhaps you should have removed it. You can speculate all you want on the reason why things are and I can freely correct you on it.

The devs aren't just going to come here and answer every question you have either, they have shit to do. Players need to understand realistically how they can help. If you have skills that could be useful, make it known. There are obvious channels on how to go about donating your time and applying to help.

So pathing being updated != fixing pathing in your mind? Interesting.. I guess they were making it worse for some reason?

Anyway, I'm not removing my statement because it's valid to my point. It would appear TMO does not want training to go away. Training going away is partially reliant on pathing being fixed.

Therefore one can surmise that TMO has no urgent need to report broken pathing and get it fixed. This notion is further by Nilbog saying that he has not heard anything in the month since the "non-fixes" (or however you wish to refer to them) went in.

You can make any excuse you want, however winking when a lead-gm describes pathing exploits and hinting that you know of them (yet I doubt you or anyone in TMO has reported them) doesn't exactly inspire confidence in your caring to see them fixed.

So again, the players need to know what they can do to help this situation, and those players are most likely going to need to be someone that is not in TMO. I'm sure FE and other guilds have many anxious people willing to help fix and report on VP pathing, they just need to be told what to do.

Edit: They also need to be allowed in the zone to mess around without threat of being instantly killed if they're trying to better the server.

[Llodd]

Ah, good deal then.

If the pathing is much better and the aggro mechanics are decent, I'd say that you guys could definitely push that issue off the table. Still have to get the GMs to want to pick up the petitions from that zone (trains will still happen on contested mobs due to racing/pulling down hallways, limited pull spots, etc), but shouldn't be much worse than contested CTs/VSs/Innys (Well, VS probably doesn't get raced to like before).

Well why not try one night where deliberate training isn't allowed and see how things go.

I'm sure there will be sneaky and devious acts from those that want to see it fail, but surely enough information could be garnered with the numerous fraps available and the GM's watching over things to possibly come to a re-evaluation of the current ruleset one way or the other.

[Autotune]

So pathing being updated != fixing pathing in your mind? Interesting.. I guess they were making it worse for some reason?

Anyway, I'm not removing my statement because it's valid to my point. It would appear TMO does not want training to go away. Training going away is partially reliant on pathing being fixed.

Therefore one can surmise that TMO has no urgent need to report broken pathing and get it fixed. This notion is further by Nilbog saying that he has not heard anything in the month since the "non-fixes" (or however you wish to refer to them) went in.

You can make any excuse you want, however winking when a lead-gm describes pathing exploits and hinting that you know of them (yet I doubt you or anyone in TMO has reported them) doesn't exactly inspire confidence in your caring to see them fixed.

So again, the players need to know what they can do to help this situation, and those players are most likely going to need to be someone that is not in TMO. I'm sure FE and other guilds have many anxious people willing to help fix and report on VP pathing, they just need to be told what to do.

Edit: They also need to be allowed in the zone to mess around without threat of being instantly killed if they're trying to better the server.

Updated and Fixed are still two different things. Updated means it's simply changed and hopefully for the better, fixed means it's finished and at a desired and completely functioning state.

Again, pathing issues were reported on Day 1. Pathing is still nearly as horrid was it was then, as stated by Sirken.

As far as people not reporting it from inside TMO, I've already stated that they have (I know for a fact Perun posted a thread about it and several members of both guilds, IB and TMO, commented on it).

On a side note, it doesn't take any outside players to check the pathing in VP. After pathing updates, any GM/Guide/Dev could go into vp and test the updates.

It's quite clear you are commenting from a point of view that is severely lacking knowledge of the server and it's history.

[Autotune]

Well why not try one night where deliberate training isn't allowed and see how things go.

I'm sure there will be sneaky and devious acts from those that want to see it fail, but surely enough information could be garnered with the numerous fraps available and the GM's watching over things to possibly come to a re-evaluation of the current ruleset one way or the other.

Lead GM stated he's looked at the pathing and stated that people should work it out themselves. CSR does not want to deal with the fraps and petitions that VP would bring. Maybe you guys could get them to push for 2 more guides to just watch VP raids, but I still think the best choice would be to push removing variance in VP to allow the nonTMOs to set up scheduled VP raids.

[MaksimMazor]

its fucking bad, TMO still avoids my trains from fake walls and other means

Lol or simply invis'ing oneself

[Tasslehofp99]

Lead GM stated he's looked at the pathing and stated that people should work it out themselves. CSR does not want to deal with the fraps and petitions that VP would bring. Maybe you guys could get them to push for 2 more guides to just watch VP raids, but I still think the best choice would be to push removing variance in VP to allow the nonTMOs to set up scheduled VP raids.

Removing variance in VP actually seems like an interesting idea, but I'd still much rather have no training. Training in VP isn't classic. I guess variance isn't either but I'm sure a lot more people would want to zone into VP if training wasn't allowed regardless of variance.

[Autotune]

Removing variance in VP actually seems like an interesting idea, but I'd still much rather have no training. Training in VP isn't classic. I guess variance isn't either but I'm sure a lot more people would want to zone into VP if training wasn't allowed regardless of variance.

Being able to plan ahead and set a date/time for regulars to participate would definitely help combat the trains. Instead of having to deal with getting people on in a split second to race dragons, you'd then be able to focus on strategy and have reliability in people being able to attend.

It's not exactly what you want, but it is something that doesn't require TMO's "permission" and is something that benefits everyone equally (but more so people not in TMO).

I'd imagine a good bit of old raiders would probably be willing to come back a couple times per week just to mess with TMO if they knew when those dragons would pop as well... so there is that lol.

EDIT: Reason I think they would remove variance (with so many obviously interested in VP) is due to variance being put in to solve Poopsocks and considering training solves poopsocks automatically, there is no need for variance in VP. Removing variance would remove one large hurdle for casuals and entice some of the hardcore guys with scores to settle to come back.

[Llodd]

Lead GM stated he's looked at the pathing and stated that people should work it out themselves. CSR does not want to deal with the fraps and petitions that VP would bring. Maybe you guys could get them to push for 2 more guides to just watch VP raids, but I still think the best choice would be to push removing variance in VP to allow the nonTMOs to set up scheduled VP raids.

Sirken watching pathing is not the same as having two guilds inside racing for mobs.

I understand that the GM's don't want to deal with the endless petitions as things were before. I'm suggesting one night of re-evaluation especially as pathing has been changed since the rulest was put into place.

[Godefroi]

Keep variance, remove non classic trains = Contested VP, races, no-no life train war and no poopsock.

But, it's never gonna happen simply because TMO would make it hell, and basically other guilds would have to submit quite a big amount of frapses of TMO training for suspensions to happen to have the new rules enforced...And GMs either don't care, or have something else to do ;)

[Vandy]

If they don't want to alter the training rule then how about an exception? Do not allow trains in VP unless you have an opposing raid force outside ready to zone in to make your move. This would force them to go for VP mobs first on repop days if another guild is making a move, instead of hitting all the outside bosses and train/delaying the raid in VP so they can clean it up later. Would open up more of the other spawns to other guilds and if they decide to go for outside mobs first, would give other guilds a shot at a few VP bosses.

Any thoughts?

p.s.
This would also prevent grief training when Velious comes out and VP does open up. New guilds will want to try VP and people who are assholes/bored has free pass to train them. That shouldn't be allowed.

[Autotune]

If they don't want to alter the training rule then how about an exception? Do not allow trains in VP unless you have an opposing raid force outside ready to zone in to make your move. This would force them to go for VP mobs first on repop days if another guild is making a move, instead of hitting all the outside bosses and train/delaying the raid in VP so they can clean it up later. Would open up more of the other spawns to other guilds and if they decide to go for outside mobs first, would give other guilds a shot at a few VP bosses.

Any thoughts?

p.s.
This would also prevent grief training when Velious comes out and VP does open up. New guilds will want to try VP and people who are assholes/bored has free pass to train them. That shouldn't be allowed.

It's been happening for the entirety of VP so far.

[Razdeline]

It's been happening for the entirety of VP so far.

[Tasslehofp99]

If they don't want to alter the training rule then how about an exception? Do not allow trains in VP unless you have an opposing raid force outside ready to zone in to make your move. This would force them to go for VP mobs first on repop days if another guild is making a move, instead of hitting all the outside bosses and train/delaying the raid in VP so they can clean it up later. Would open up more of the other spawns to other guilds and if they decide to go for outside mobs first, would give other guilds a shot at a few VP bosses.

Any thoughts?

p.s.
This would also prevent grief training when Velious comes out and VP does open up. New guilds will want to try VP and people who are assholes/bored has free pass to train them. That shouldn't be allowed.

This was mainly my motivation behind this thread. I don't plan on going to VP until training isn't allowed there. I guess when TMO leaves the other guilds will have to come up with an agreement.

[timhutton]

Updated and Fixed are still two different things. Updated means it's simply changed and hopefully for the better, fixed means it's finished and at a desired and completely functioning state.

Again, pathing issues were reported on Day 1. Pathing is still nearly as horrid was it was then, as stated by Sirken.

As far as people not reporting it from inside TMO, I've already stated that they have (I know for a fact Perun posted a thread about it and several members of both guilds, IB and TMO, commented on it).

On a side note, it doesn't take any outside players to check the pathing in VP. After pathing updates, any GM/Guide/Dev could go into vp and test the updates.

It's quite clear you are commenting from a point of view that is severely lacking knowledge of the server and it's history.

That's a bold (and innacurate) assumption since you have no idea who I am. The only thing I care about however is getting the pathing fixed in a zone that has been released for almost 2 years so that there can be some modicum of normalcy that mirrors what occured on live. Crazy, I know.

If there is something else the players can do to help then I would like to be told so that we can all chip in. Whatever help TMO has provided has not been adequate enough. Sorry.

[Raavak]

Whatever help TMO has provided has not been adequate enough. Sorry.Lol wut. You are blaming TMO for pathing problems? Gtfo.

[timhutton]

Is that what I said? You must be slow.

[Alarti0001]

That's a bold (and innacurate) assumption since you have no idea who I am. The only thing I care about however is getting the pathing fixed in a zone that has been released for almost 2 years so that there can be some modicum of normalcy that mirrors what occured on live. Crazy, I know.

If there is something else the players can do to help then I would like to be told so that we can all chip in. Whatever help TMO has provided has not been adequate enough. Sorry.

Training happened in VP on live. Normalcy wasn't VP on live. Very few guilds got in before Velious. So what is normal?

[Tasslehofp99]

Training happened in VP on live. Normalcy wasn't VP on live. Very few guilds got in before Velious. So what is normal?

Training happened but it deffinetly wasn't allowed to be intentionally done over and over. We have already established that like 30 pages ago!

[Alarti0001]

Training happened but it deffinetly wasn't allowed to be intentionally done over and over. We have already established that like 30 pages ago!

No you actually didn't. Training happened without punishment on multiple servers... we have already established that like 40 pages ago!

[Joroz]

No you actually didn't. Training happened without punishment on multiple servers... we have already established that like 40 pages ago!

Training in ALL zones is against the PNP on live... if you didn't get punished good for you. PNP on P99 != PNP on Live.

[Raavak]

Is that what I said? You must be slow.Basically you did, yes.

[Autotune]

That's a bold (and innacurate) assumption since you have no idea who I am. The only thing I care about however is getting the pathing fixed in a zone that has been released for almost 2 years so that there can be some modicum of normalcy that mirrors what occured on live. Crazy, I know.

If there is something else the players can do to help then I would like to be told so that we can all chip in. Whatever help TMO has provided has not been adequate enough. Sorry.

It's already been discussed about Live and people's experiences of it. Live is not some generalized experience that existed on every server. Every server varied, some more widely than others. You guys keep throwing it around as if what your server had was on every server.

It's been reported and it's quite clear that it was never fixed, aside from repeatedly reporting bad pathing every week (when updates come after several months on average), what would you say needed to be done by the players?

Alunova: Created new pathing for Veeshan's Peak

Is the only thing that was posted about VP's pathing for the patch. In the thread, only invis pulling in VP was "discussed".

[Godefroi]

Train wars never happened on live as for all server barely 1 guild per server reached VP.

feel free to provide evidences saying otherwise Alarti.

Pathing is acceptable in VP and anyone willing to avoid training can easily do so.

Now, it really only is about the staff wether or not making the raiding scene access to the end zone after nearly 3 years of kunark, its wether or not they want VP to be the playground for no lives training for 10+ hours (that's what happened last time a raiding guild face TMO, only with twice as less numbers than they had) or if they want the zone to be contested with races and not grief.

[Turp_SmokinPurp]

turn on PVP.
in VP.

[timhutton]

Training happened in VP on live. Normalcy wasn't VP on live. Very few guilds got in before Velious. So what is normal?

Prove it.

[Autotune]

Prove it.

Have any proof that it was? I'd like to see a live CSR rep post stating that all server's were exactly the same.

Bet all you have is a PnP police, one very similar to what P99 has, but I bet just like p99's PnP the live version wasn't strictly enforced.

[Beastro]

If this was done to slow down progression so the board isn't filled with whines for more content, then why not enable PvP in VP?

[finalgrunt]

When it comes to raiding on this server, don't expect the classic experience. And it's pretty much obvious whatever happened on Live isn't really the guideline here. Better lobby the head staff about your views.

[Llodd]

Have any proof that it was? I'd like to see a live CSR rep post stating that all server's were exactly the same.

Bet all you have is a PnP police, one very similar to what P99 has, but I bet just like p99's PnP the live version wasn't strictly enforced.

Expecting different people across different servers to implement CSR in exactly the same way in what at the time was a very innovative new game, I'm not sure was possible.

The question is whether the lead devs intended it or not, and their attitude towards it's implementation. The fact that it exists I think speaks more for it than against.

[timhutton]

Have any proof that it was? I'd like to see a live CSR rep post stating that all server's were exactly the same.

Bet all you have is a PnP police, one very similar to what P99 has, but I bet just like p99's PnP the live version wasn't strictly enforced.

What do you have? Information that someone told you it wasn't like that?

There's a word for that, it's called hearsay. It does not hold up well.

[timhutton]

Expecting different people across different servers to implement CSR in exactly the same way in what at the time was a very innovative new game, I'm not sure was possible.

The question is whether the lead devs intended it or not, and their attitude towards it's implementation. The fact that it exists I think speaks more for it than against.

Couldn't agree more.

Finalgrunt I think that was the point of this thread. :)

[Tasslehofp99]

Couldn't agree more.

Finalgrunt I think that was the point of this thread. :)

I honestly wish that a thread which so many folks commented/voted on received a bit more positive feedback than this one did. It seems as if the majority of folks feel as if training in VP is unnecessary and only caters to a select crowd of folks.


Removal of Variance inside of VP actually seems like a good suggestion, autotune.
I just still don't think people would even want to waste their time going to VP(with training) even if they knew the exact time mobs were due to spawn. It's just not worth it considering only 3 items from the entire zone are still useful post-velious.

It IS somewhat disappointing though, that obviously a majority of the players here would favor a non-training policy in regards to VP yet the rules remain the same. Perhaps when velious is released and TMO leaves VP the rest of the guilds will get to experience VP without the annoyance of training. I'm sure the rest of us would be willing to work out agreements amongst eachother to not fuck eachother over.

[Ponden]

Perhaps when velious is released

I hope you all realize Velious is going to be just as bad, if not even more retarded, than the current raiding situation in Kunark. VP will still be camped among a handful of Velious spawns.

[Tasslehofp99]

I hope you all realize Velious is going to be just as bad, if not even more retarded, than the current raiding situation in Kunark. VP will still be camped among a handful of Velious spawns.

You think? I mean...surely there will be other guilds stepping up to start raiding kunark content once TMO moves on to the 100+ new mobs in velious. That's one of the reasons why I made this thread, so that we can consider revising the rules to make VP a better place for us to raid post-TMO.

Obviously other guilds on the server are going to be competing for mobs, but we don't have to train eachother. We can come to some agreements like we have in the past, when TMO wasn't involved.

[Tasslehofp99]

Im just trying to consider alternatives to the current shitty situation regarding VP, because obviously the server staff and current guild controlling VP love things the way they are. So we'll just have to wait until TMO leaves and then we can make it a better place to raid. Although, I assume if training is allowed by GM's then the problem will still remain until that is addressed.

Man, for a server that is supposed to emulate live EQ...Variance and Training in VP? Not classic. Oh well, I guess the 250+ people who hate the fact that training is allowed in VP will have to wait till velious. Just hope the 1k+ population numbers we are hitting nowadays sticks it out until then, if they do...I seriously see 2000+ players online during velious release. If not, then its just another wave of players who came, saw p99 for what it was, and left for greener pastures.


(shameless bump while server is down + trying to hit 1000 replies in this thread) :)

[Ponden]

You think? I mean...surely there will be other guilds stepping up to start raiding kunark content once TMO moves on to the 100+ new mobs in velious. That's one of the reasons why I made this thread, so that we can consider revising the rules to make VP a better place for us to raid post-TMO.

Obviously other guilds on the server are going to be competing for mobs, but we don't have to train eachother. We can come to some agreements like we have in the past, when TMO wasn't involved.

VP still provides good loot for alts and some mains, as well as spells. There aren't 100+ mobs in Velious worth killing. Sure there are more, but to say Velious content is enough to keep 1 guild busy with the retarded window times of mobs on this server? No. Edit: Not to mention that mobs with 32k hp will pretty much melt with Velious geared melee and will be easy targets to snipe for good plat.

[Tasslehofp99]

VP still provides good loot for alts and some mains, as well as spells. There aren't 100+ mobs in Velious worth killing. Sure there are more, but to say Velious content is enough to keep 1 guild busy with the retarded window times of mobs on this server? No. Edit: Not to mention that mobs with 32k hp will pretty much melt with Velious geared melee and will be easy targets to snipe for good plat.

I guess you have a point, I guess I'm just an optimist.


I've come to the conclusion that making this thread was a mistake though as I seem to have gotten a couple of people's jimmies rustled and now they won't leave me alone.

[Tasslehofp99]

380 votes. Damn! I was hoping to hit 100 when I made this post. I'm really kind of shocked how many p99ers wish VP had a classic ruleset yet there seems to be very little recourse for these players other than joining in on the training derpfests or just not raid VP until its fixed.

Just really hope this sanctioned training is done away with before velious is released. Would be a shame for hundreds of players to miss out on VP because of trains. I'm just glad I got to see it a few times and kill a dragon there though.

[Sirken]

This is not R&F. keep that in mind before you post. any more R&F garbage will be met with forum bans. dont make me be a bad guy :)

[timhutton]

VP still provides good loot for alts and some mains, as well as spells. There aren't 100+ mobs in Velious worth killing. Sure there are more, but to say Velious content is enough to keep 1 guild busy with the retarded window times of mobs on this server? No. Edit: Not to mention that mobs with 32k hp will pretty much melt with Velious geared melee and will be easy targets to snipe for good plat.

I don't understand why people think anything inside of VP is going to change when Velious is released.

The best the server could hope for is that TMO decides to stop farming everything in there besides PD. This would free up the remaining 5 dragons for others. Even then though, you have to hope that A) TMO doesn't want to kill them for clickies/toys/alts, B) TMO/people won't train you for the hell of it because crazies like scerix enjoy ruining other players experience so much, C) TMO doesn't want to fuck with you just because they don't like you.

If the stars align, and everything goes right, the rest of the server may have a shot at zoning in and killing some dragons. TMO is never going to stop killing PD though. Her loot is mostly still BiS even after Velious.

The most likely post-Velious scenarios for VP:
1. TMO continues to farm and lockdown everything in the zone.
2. TMO only cares about PD, another guild locks down the other 5 dragons and still 95% of the server is still locked out of VP.

I wouldn't remain too hopeful.

Edit: I think it's worth noting that this is one of the big reasons that rules that allow 1 guild to monopolize content and are clearly un-classic (sanctioned training/variance etc) and a detriment to everyone else who wants to play this game. It's not even TMO's fault. It wasn't IB/TR's fault back in the day earlier. TMO will not be around forever, and when they are gone there will be a new "TMO" for everybody to hate, so long as the rules stay the same.

TMO and IB/TR may have had more than their fair share of assholes and misanthropes, but ultimately it's the rules that are keeping the majority of players from getting to experience content on this server, not the other players. On live there was a knowledge/skill gap, and that simply doesn't apply to the majority of players 14 years after a game has been released.

[Godefroi]

I don't understand why people think anything inside of VP is going to change when Velious is released.

The best the server could hope for is that TMO decides to stop farming everything in there besides PD. This would free up the remaining 5 dragons for others. Even then though, you have to hope that A) TMO doesn't want to kill them for clickies/toys/alts, B) TMO/people won't train you for the hell of it because crazies like scerix enjoy ruining other players experience so much, C) TMO doesn't want to fuck with you just because they don't like you.

If the stars align, and everything goes right, the rest of the server may have a shot at zoning in and killing some dragons. TMO is never going to stop killing PD though. Her loot is mostly still BiS even after Velious.

The most likely post-Velious scenarios for VP:
1. TMO continues to farm and lockdown everything in the zone.
2. TMO only cares about PD, another guild locks down the other 5 dragons and still 95% of the server is still locked out of VP.

I wouldn't remain too hopeful.

Edit: I think it's worth noting that this is one of the big reasons that rules that allow 1 guild to monopolize content and are clearly un-classic (sanctioned training/variance etc) and a detriment to everyone else who wants to play this game. It's not even TMO's fault. It wasn't IB/TR's fault back in the day earlier. TMO will not be around forever, and when they are gone there will be a new "TMO" for everybody to hate, so long as the rules stay the same.

TMO and IB/TR may have had more than their fair share of assholes and misanthropes, but ultimately it's the rules that are keeping the majority of players from getting to experience content on this server, not the other players. On live there was a knowledge/skill gap, and that simply doesn't apply to the majority of players 14 years after a game has been released.

This.

[Tasslehofp99]

I don't understand why people think anything inside of VP is going to change when Velious is released.

The best the server could hope for is that TMO decides to stop farming everything in there besides PD. This would free up the remaining 5 dragons for others. Even then though, you have to hope that A) TMO doesn't want to kill them for clickies/toys/alts, B) TMO/people won't train you for the hell of it because crazies like scerix enjoy ruining other players experience so much, C) TMO doesn't want to fuck with you just because they don't like you.

If the stars align, and everything goes right, the rest of the server may have a shot at zoning in and killing some dragons. TMO is never going to stop killing PD though. Her loot is mostly still BiS even after Velious.

The most likely post-Velious scenarios for VP:
1. TMO continues to farm and lockdown everything in the zone.
2. TMO only cares about PD, another guild locks down the other 5 dragons and still 95% of the server is still locked out of VP.

I wouldn't remain too hopeful.

Edit: I think it's worth noting that this is one of the big reasons that rules that allow 1 guild to monopolize content and are clearly un-classic (sanctioned training/variance etc) and a detriment to everyone else who wants to play this game. It's not even TMO's fault. It wasn't IB/TR's fault back in the day earlier. TMO will not be around forever, and when they are gone there will be a new "TMO" for everybody to hate, so long as the rules stay the same.

TMO and IB/TR may have had more than their fair share of assholes and misanthropes, but ultimately it's the rules that are keeping the majority of players from getting to experience content on this server, not the other players. On live there was a knowledge/skill gap, and that simply doesn't apply to the majority of players 14 years after a game has been released.


Good points.

[Tasslehofp99]

Why not?

[Tasslehofp99]

Fix the server's raiding scene, take out sanctioned training!

[JayN]

Fix the server's raiding scene, take out sanctioned training!

I trained your mom in vp last night!

Deals have been made in the past; training was only allowed because TR wanted it that way, at the time they were top donators.

TMO earned/clawed its way to the top, douchehoff99 is just all about band-wagoning the server vs TMO because hes a cry baby bitch rich kid in RL sick of not getting his way in the elf pixel simulator.

So either move on or get with the program and present a challenge to TMO or petition for a name change and app to join; some how doubt your scummy ass could make it through the app endeavor.

[Clark]

I trained my mom

Deals have been made


http://s24.postimg.org/lunbrvhv9/image.jpg

[Tasslehofp99]

I trained your mom in vp last night!

Deals have been made in the past; training was only allowed because TR wanted it that way, at the time they were top donators.

TMO earned/clawed its way to the top, douchehoff99 is just all about band-wagoning the server vs TMO because hes a cry baby bitch rich kid in RL sick of not getting his way in the elf pixel simulator.

So either move on or get with the program and present a challenge to TMO or petition for a name change and app to join; some how doubt your scummy ass could make it through the app endeavor.

Or I just want to fix something that's severely wrong with the raiding scene on p99, lol.

[Vandy]

Posted this in the GM Rulebook thread as well. These threads fill up with crap so fast all the post where people are actually giving suggestions get totally buried.




I think if they are dead set on keeping the training aspect in that some sort of rules should be added to it.

Such that if you wish to train a guild that is going to attempt a VP run you have to have your VP raid force outside ready to move in. If you have no intent to immediately raid VP then you shouldn't be able to send in people to stall or grief.

[Godefroi]

You can clearly see who the 9% on top are with the adderal and cocaine earned pixels

and the 91% of the rest of the server that has a normal life

[Tasslehofp99]

Posted this in the GM Rulebook thread as well. These threads fill up with crap so fast all the post where people are actually giving suggestions get totally buried.




I think if they are dead set on keeping the training aspect in that some sort of rules should be added to it.

Such that if you wish to train a guild that is going to attempt a VP run you have to have your VP raid force outside ready to move in. If you have no intent to immediately raid VP then you shouldn't be able to send in people to stall or grief.

I just think training shouldn't be allowed at all, it wasn't on live. Unfortunately though the guild on top seems to favor a less competitive raiding scene filled with griefers and people who just want to waste time.

Sure, FE and any other guild could band together and join forces against TMO's training-army in VP. But why? Why should folks have to utilize a non-classic raiding mechanic to compete fairly on a server? Why should training be allowed in VP and not in other zones? I mean, the rulebook clarifies Planes of fear/hate/sky as non-CSR as well right? These are questions that a large portion of the playerbase wish were answered and/or addressed.


nothing's wrong except YOU. Rules are already established, they won't change because you're failing. Make a guild with these 250 people and go in VP, earn your pixels instead of whinning on every threads



For you to say that its just one player or guild who doesn't like the way things are here is just ignorant. Sure, server population is up right now but its been at this point before in the past. The same thing always seems to happen, a new wave of players starts and levels up, then they quit when they realize what raiding on p99 has become. Its a never ending cycle that's been going on 2+ years now, and until stuff is fixed/changed it will keep happening until velious is released.

To me, the raiding scene would be way more fair and competitive without the presence of training. It's gotten to the point where training outside of VP is rarely enforced. For example there are hundreds of fraps of one specific person continually training VS pit, admitting to it in /say and laughing about it, and going unpunished. How long should any guild be expected to put up with stuff like this without atleast fighting back by breaking rules themselves or simply giving up and leaving the server like IB (the last guild who was on top besides TMO.)

Stop being ignorant and take a look at the bigger picture here.

[quido]

I think training should be allowed in VP to prevent people from spawn-socking the dragons there.

[Tasslehofp99]

I think training should be allowed in VP to prevent people from spawn-socking the dragons there.

So, you support a non classic mechanic being allowed to prevent guilds from employing a classic raiding stratedgy?

Plus extended variance has pretty much rendered poopsocking pointless for the most part. What irks me is that people in favor of training can't come up with one legitimate or logical reason why it should be so.

Preventing poopsocking doesn't count in my opinion because for a guild to sit on a spawn, remain prepared, and kill the mob when it spawns takes more dedication across a guild than camping 1 tracker there. You're saying you want to train the players who are more dedicated than you? That doesn't seem very competitive at all.

It just seems to me there is no valid reason to allow training in any zone. But if the p99 devs are dead set on allowing training there, why not allow training in other classicly "non-csr" zones as well? I mean the rules are the basis on which competition thrives, and the rules here are either not enforced at all or they are changed so often that the players who are affected don't even know what they are anymore. All guilds have been guilty of intentional/unintentional rule breaking, so there's really no reason why we can't all agree that training is shitty and should be avoided whenever possible and not allowed by the gms/devs if possible.

[Arteker]

So, you support a non classic mechanic being allowed to prevent guilds from employing a classic raiding stratedgy?

Plus extended variance has pretty much rendered poopsocking pointless for the most part. What irks me is that people in favor of training can't come up with one legitimate or logical reason why it should be so.

Preventing poopsocking doesn't count in my opinion because for a guild to sit on a spawn, remain prepared, and kill the mob when it spawns takes more dedication across a guild than camping 1 tracker there. You're saying you want to train the players who are more dedicated than you? That doesn't seem very competitive at all.

It just seems to me there is no valid reason to allow training in any zone. But if the p99 devs are dead set on allowing training there, why not allow training in other classicly "non-csr" zones as well? I mean the rules are the basis on which competition thrives, and the rules here are either not enforced at all or they are changed so often that the players who are affected don't even know what they are anymore. All guilds have been guilty of intentional/unintentional rule breaking, so there's really no reason why we can't all agree that training is shitty and should be avoided whenever possible and not allowed by the gms/devs if possible.

how come then ur guild only semi work in popsocks :)

[Vandy]

I just think training shouldn't be allowed at all, it wasn't on live. Unfortunately though the guild on top seems to favor a less competitive raiding scene filled with griefers and people who just want to waste time.

Sure, FE and any other guild could band together and join forces against TMO's training-army in VP. But why? Why should folks have to utilize a non-classic raiding mechanic to compete fairly on a server? Why should training be allowed in VP and not in other zones? I mean, the rulebook clarifies Planes of fear/hate/sky as non-CSR as well right? These are questions that a large portion of the playerbase wish were answered and/or addressed.




Yea training is stupid and shouldn't be allowed... but it is and probably will be left in so there is less work for the GMs. But the griefing that can be done is ridiculous I would never want training to be allowed in other planes because far too many people have access to those areas and if someone just FEELS like being a dick with intention to raid they can just go train a raid that is trying to do work whether it be a fear clear or a Sky raid.

So since this mechanic is clearly here and they don't want to drop it totally then why not find a way to modifiy it without add a TON of extra workload for the GMs. That is why you should have to have a raid outside the zone you are training ready to move in and kill.

So let's say that guild A wants to attempt VP on a server reset. If guild B wants to train guild A they would need a force ready and waiting to zone in and move on the targets in order to train guild A. Guild B would be forced to prioritize VP over any targets that are outside of VP. Yes guild B can split it's force but that would still open up many targets to other guilds who are NOT vp capable as the smaller force that is sent for outside targets "shouldn't" be able to monopolize the enitre raid scene.

with the current situtation guild B can just split its forces and hit outside VP targets while sending a few members to train/kill/delay any force that decides to attempt a VP dragon on a repop day. If no other guild attempts VP on a repop day then yes guild B may still monopolize outside targets but that's because there is no pressure on VP.

[Tasslehofp99]

I just meant that since training outside of vp happens regularly anyway and is rarely enforced, why not go full retard with it and just make training allowes everywhere? Why is VP different than innoruuk or cazic thule?

By the logic provided by those in support of sanctioned training, shouldn't training be allowed in all non-csr zones? Wouldn't that just make less work for the gms as well?

The simplest solution would be to either outlaw training in all zones or allow it in all zones. I mean, 2 years+ of VP with training and still no one deems it worth the time required to attempt 1 dragon. I think a lot of people fail to realize that competition at this point in VP equates to who can stay awake the longest and field a kill force while keeping opposing trainers dead. How is that any different from poopsocking? How is that more competitive than if trains weren't allowed and guilds were forced to pull and kill dragons while avoiding training eachother?

I'm still waiting for a legitimate reason training should be a part of raiding at all, other than it allows the top guild to keep all others out until they are finished farming the zone. This is not competition, and it is diminishing the health of the raid scene. Tons of more people would likely play if VP wasn't a total shitfest and actually provided competition. Not to mention the fact that those of us on the shit end of the VP stick are left with very little faith that velious release is going to do anything for the stagnant raid scene. Especially when there's already talk of sanctioned training being allowed in velious raiding zones as well.

[Godefroi]

the staff clearly gives 2 fucks and clearly won't enforce classic CSR rules

I mean, it's free gaming and drama generates traffic, why would Big sean fix anything.

[Clark]

I just meant that since training outside of vp happens regularly anyway and is rarely enforced, why not go full retard with it and just make training allowes everywhere? Why is VP different than innoruuk or cazic thule?

By the logic provided by those in support of sanctioned training, shouldn't training be allowed in all non-csr zones? Wouldn't that just make less work for the gms as well?

The simplest solution would be to either outlaw training in all zones or allow it in all zones. I mean, 2 years+ of VP with training and still no one deems it worth the time required to attempt 1 dragon. I think a lot of people fail to realize that competition at this point in VP equates to who can stay awake the longest and field a kill force while keeping opposing trainers dead. How is that any different from poopsocking? How is that more competitive than if trains weren't allowed and guilds were forced to pull and kill dragons while avoiding training eachother?

I'm still waiting for a legitimate reason training should be a part of raiding at all, other than it allows the top guild to keep all others out until they are finished farming the zone. This is not competition, and it is diminishing the health of the raid scene. Tons of more people would likely play if VP wasn't a total shitfest and actually provided competition. Not to mention the fact that those of us on the shit end of the VP stick are left with very little faith that velious release is going to do anything for the stagnant raid scene. Especially when there's already talk of sanctioned training being allowed in velious raiding zones as well.

Haven't followed this thread as closely lately, but that is a good point. Hope sanctioned training isn't allowed in Velious that's ridiculous :D

[Arteker]

Haven't followed this thread as closely lately, but that is a good point. Hope sanctioned training isn't allowed in Velious that's ridiculous :D

speaks the man who like to do rl threats to oposite guild members when lose a race.

[Godefroi]

speaks the man who like to do rl threats to oposite guild members when lose a race.

How is this related to the topic numb fuck ?

If you take rl threats seriously you're even dumber than the one carrying them out

[Tasslehofp99]

I just meant that since training outside of vp happens regularly anyway and is rarely enforced, why not go full retard with it and just make training allowes everywhere? Why is VP different than innoruuk or cazic thule?

By the logic provided by those in support of sanctioned training, shouldn't training be allowed in all non-csr zones? Wouldn't that just make less work for the gms as well?

The simplest solution would be to either outlaw training in all zones or allow it in all zones. I mean, 2 years+ of VP with training and still no one deems it worth the time required to attempt 1 dragon. I think a lot of people fail to realize that competition at this point in VP equates to who can stay awake the longest and field a kill force while keeping opposing trainers dead. How is that any different from poopsocking? How is that more competitive than if trains weren't allowed and guilds were forced to pull and kill dragons while avoiding training eachother?

I'm still waiting for a legitimate reason training should be a part of raiding at all, other than it allows the top guild to keep all others out until they are finished farming the zone. This is not competition, and it is diminishing the health of the raid scene. Tons of more people would likely play if VP wasn't a total shitfest and actually provided competition. Not to mention the fact that those of us on the shit end of the VP stick are left with very little faith that velious release is going to do anything for the stagnant raid scene. Especially when there's already talk of sanctioned training being allowed in velious raiding zones as well.


Bump lets keep this friendly please, this is a very important topic to the servers raid scene and a huge flaw in the rules here.

[Arteker]

How is this related to the topic numb fuck ?

If you take rl threats seriously you're even dumber than the one carrying them out

when it come to blame others to train based of their own members not being enough smart to know a monk+bard song: bad idea.

outside of vp btw, so take seriusly the threats when u got people rl jobs and homes by people like him enough mad to call them after they lose a race .

are you the dude make proud calls about other players ethnics anwyays ?. so who dyou care go dupe aons man.

[Tasslehofp99]

Bump lets keep this friendly please, this is a very important topic to the servers raid scene and a huge flaw in the rules here.

Stop posting rants and flames in my post please arteker.


If you have nothing of value to contribute just move on.

Damn almost 300 people against training being sanctiones by gms.

[Godefroi]

Feel free to call the fbi Andromeda, Im sure they will listen to your tinfoil hat theories.

Do you have any comments about your guild take part of non classic Csr abuses ?

[JayN]

variance isnt classic, the only mob FE can get is poopsocking Vs for 7 days straight; then it take them 10 mins of non stop zerg to finally drop him... and when i say zerg I mean fucking ZERG! they were chain clicking people in up to five times in the ten min fight. TBH hes a one group-able raid boss and it is very sad to see him take ten mins to kill with over 30 players.

Seems like you guys should be back gearing up some of your players, plane raids? rather then just spamming the forums, for handouts. I mean I dont even think you can kill real target anymore!

[Tasslehofp99]

variance isnt classic, the only mob FE can get is poopsocking Vs for 7 days straight; then it take them 10 mins of non stop zerg to finally drop him... and when i say zerg I mean fucking ZERG! they were chain clicking people in up to five times in the ten min fight. TBH hes a one group-able raid boss and it is very sad to see him take ten mins to kill with over 30 players.

Seems like you guys should be back gearing up some of your players, plane raids? rather then just spamming the forums, for handouts. I mean I dont even think you can kill real target anymore!

Take it to rants and flames dude.

[heartbrand]

Now that red99 is merging to blue I look forward to using my five VP keyed chars to legally train there. Let the games begin.

[JayN]

Take it to rants and flames dude.

Be a man Tasslehofp99, your spilt milk is starting to smell.

Clean up that mess

[JayN]

seriously wtf does everything have to change all of a sudden because you dontlike it anymore? wtf is this bullshit im sorry

[Tasslehofp99]

Be a man Tasslehofp99, your spilt milk is starting to smell.

Clean up that mess

wut

seriously wtf does everything have to change all of a sudden because you dontlike it anymore? wtf is this bullshit im sorry

I'm not the only one who thinks the rules in VP are fucked.

[Arteker]

Feel free to call the fbi Andromeda, Im sure they will listen to your tinfoil hat theories.

Do you have any comments about your guild take part of non classic Csr abuses ?

yes. as the most trained guild in vp(tr,ib,vd,bda,fe,) we still here .we wont go down.

unlike all others above.

its abuse when u cannot use it visc , when u made the big words when u where in Fe u said u would kick us .


u tried the train war, tass tried it. didint worked well.


so now is time to cry.

[Klax]

Because certan guilds can get away with anything and have there pinkys up GM butts? Thats the way its always looked to me anyways.

[Tasslehofp99]

yes. as the most trained guild in vp(tr,ib,vd,bda,fe,) we still here .we wont go down.

unlike all others above.

its abuse when u cannot use it visc , when u made the big words when u where in Fe u said u would kick us .


u tried the train war, tass tried it. didint worked well.


so now is time to cry.

Aside from TR/IB, BDA/FE/VD as far as I know inherited the rules of VP. Most of us would prefer to never step foot in that zone as long as such a non-classic feature as training is allowed. You must not read like any of the posts, cause it just seems like you keep repeating the same things over and over that make very little sense.


I just meant that since training outside of vp happens regularly anyway and is rarely enforced, why not go full retard with it and just make training allowes everywhere? Why is VP different than innoruuk or cazic thule?

By the logic provided by those in support of sanctioned training, shouldn't training be allowed in all non-csr zones? Wouldn't that just make less work for the gms as well?

The simplest solution would be to either outlaw training in all zones or allow it in all zones. I mean, 2 years+ of VP with training and still no one deems it worth the time required to attempt 1 dragon. I think a lot of people fail to realize that competition at this point in VP equates to who can stay awake the longest and field a kill force while keeping opposing trainers dead. How is that any different from poopsocking? How is that more competitive than if trains weren't allowed and guilds were forced to pull and kill dragons while avoiding training eachother?

I'm still waiting for a legitimate reason training should be a part of raiding at all, other than it allows the top guild to keep all others out until they are finished farming the zone. This is not competition, and it is diminishing the health of the raid scene. Tons of more people would likely play if VP wasn't a total shitfest and actually provided competition. Not to mention the fact that those of us on the shit end of the VP stick are left with very little faith that velious release is going to do anything for the stagnant raid scene. Especially when there's already talk of sanctioned training being allowed in velious raiding zones as well.

[quido]

Tasslehof, don't lie - you used to love being a part of train wars.

[Arteker]

Aside from TR/IB, BDA/FE/VD as far as I know inherited the rules of VP. Most of us would prefer to never step foot in that zone as long as such a non-classic feature as training is allowed. You must not read like any of the posts, cause it just seems like you keep repeating the same things over and over that make very little sense.

yet u cannot deny u used them till it was clear u wouldnt win or vanquish tmo in vp.and when few tmo replied ur raid force was wiped or atleat the few times u tried.

since that dont worked u now cry in behalf of the whole server . trying to be the white knigth when its clear from ur older posts and FE members u where one of the main advocates to train the fuck out of tmo in vp.


wasnt ur speech in fe forums the one give tooths to train capable classes over regular members?. because u needed to wipe vp of the tmo scum?.


and now u want to play the mr nice guy? if this post did come from other person could have some valid reasons but from the dude who sweated would see his guild train the fuck of tmo u not a great thing.

[timhutton]

Now that red99 is merging to blue I look forward to using my five VP keyed chars to legally train there. Let the games begin.

Is that going to actually happen? There would be an ocean of blue tears large enough to float the RMS Titanic on. TMO would literally 180 their stance on training inside of VP within a month due to the fact VP keyed red players would train them for kicks whether they intended on actually killing things or not.

Please tell me this is going to happen.

[JayN]

yet u cannot deny u used them till it was clear u wouldnt win or vanquish tmo in vp.and when few tmo replied ur raid force was wiped or atleat the few times u tried.

since that dont worked u now cry in behalf of the whole server . trying to be the white knigth when its clear from ur older posts and FE members u where one of the main advocates to train the fuck out of tmo in vp.


wasnt ur speech in fe forums the one give tooths to train capable classes over regular members?. because u needed to wipe vp of the tmo scum?.


and now u want to play the mr nice guy? if this post did come from other person could have some valid reasons but from the dude who sweated would see his guild train the fuck of tmo u not a great thing.

QFT



Of course thats the same douchehoffp99, hes just a whiny lil rich kid who's always used to getting his way for next to no effort; just paying hand over fist of his daddies cash.

Why do you think his cohorts (IB) all left to EQmac so they could go troll and R*T it into the floor like they do with every new mmo that comes out. tr/ad Myg0t of the mmo world!

[JayN]

Is that going to actually happen? There would be an ocean of blue tears large enough to float the RMS Titanic on. TMO would literally 180 their stance on training inside of VP within a month due to the fact VP keyed red players would train them for kicks whether they intended on actually killing things or not.

Please tell me this is going to happen.

lol you act like they arent used to this already from FE/IB... get in line with your five players

[JayN]

You should see my inbox, has all these QQ's from hoff its pretty damned funny!

please move this to rant n flames btw; what a crock

[timhutton]

Blue players are not red players.. blue players are training because they want pixels.

Red players also want pixels, but they'll train you for fun too.

Blue players give up after like 5-6 hours.

Big difference.

[Arteker]

Blue players are not red players.. blue players are training because they want pixels.

Red players also want pixels, but they'll train you for fun too.

Blue players give up after like 5-6 hours.

Big difference.

that never stoped us .

[JayN]

Blue players are not red players.. blue players are training because they want pixels.

Red players also want pixels, but they'll train you for fun too.

Blue players give up after like 5-6 hours.

Big difference.

Good thing for you red guys, theyll reimburse your corpses after rot; dont worry even all your alts corpses too!

[Splorf22]

regardless of Tasslehoff's reasons for this thread, training in VP is dumb.

[JayN]

regardless of Tasslehoff's reasons for this thread, training in VP is dumb.

it sucks that it is dumb NOW for some just now all of a sudden reason; after TMO and everyone else has had to "just deal with it" and play by the rules set forth, but now that Mr. hoff deems it not cool and is band-wagoning the server vs tmo and now it needs to be changed.

[Splorf22]

it sucks that it is dumb NOW for some just now all of a sudden reason; after TMO and everyone else has had to "just deal with it" and play by the rules set forth, but now that Mr. hoff deems it not cool and is band-wagoning the server vs tmo and now it needs to be changed.

Tony D'Annunzio: What do you got in here, rocks?
Al Czervik: Are you kiddin'? When I was your age, I would lug fifty pounds of ice up five, six flights of stairs!
Tony D'Annunzio: So what?
Al Czervik: So what? So let's dance!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3A9rLoz_0o

[JayN]

Tony D'Annunzio: What do you got in here, rocks?
Al Czervik: Are you kiddin'? When I was your age, I would lug fifty pounds of ice up five, six flights of stairs!
Tony D'Annunzio: So what?
Al Czervik: So what? So let's dance!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3A9rLoz_0o

qft

seems legit!

[Llodd]

it sucks that it is dumb NOW for some just now all of a sudden reason; after TMO and everyone else has had to "just deal with it" and play by the rules set forth, but now that Mr. hoff deems it not cool and is band-wagoning the server vs tmo and now it needs to be changed.

Is dumb, ALWAYS WAS dumb. It's only in because the volunteer staff don't want to deal with it because of the zone's mechanics and the general douchebag nature of the players, and quite rightly so. I think it's safe to say it's not a rule the staff would deliberately implement if the zone wasn't as it currently is and/or had the time to invest in sorting out all the shenanigans.

It would be interesting to see a breakdown of the poll percentages. For instance, take away tmo votes see what the % is. Take away Fe and see etc etc. One thing that is for sure is the majority of those voting don't agree with you.

You really must try and seperate your feeling towards hoff and what is being discussed and look at it objectively.

[Llodd]

Who are you replying to? what is the context?

I doubt ppl would stay long if pixels were free. Whats the point in that.

[Godefroi]

Was in TR, was in VP day 1 and got all the loot I wanted with all the TMO prats posting in this thread. However I still believe the rules are BS. TMO is posting against it because they have this recruitment machine that allows to have control of the zone with the current rules (zerg, no life training etc).

However it's not about guilds you ignorant fucks, it's about respecting classic CSR rules. That's not about me, it's not about you, it's about GMs taking a decision wether they want to enforce classic rules or not.

[Godefroi]

Olidaen good PR job bro, too bad you're so one sided and only wish to serve your interest(TMO's). While I don't blame you since it's a very human reaction, it clearly goes against the objective of this server : being classic eq.

[Llodd]

I don't quote the person i'm repping to when my post is next to his...

I had to ask because what you wrote made no sense as a reply to my post. Still doesn't.

[Arteker]

Was in TR, was in VP day 1 and got all the loot I wanted with all the TMO prats posting in this thread. However I still believe the rules are BS. TMO is posting against it because they have this recruitment machine that allows to have control of the zone with the current rules (zerg, no life training etc).

However it's not about guilds you ignorant fucks, it's about respecting classic CSR rules. That's not about me, it's not about you, it's about GMs taking a decision wether they want to enforce classic rules or not.

u got it thanks to the rotation otherwise nada nada. because i dont remember u trying to help in vp alot once u got the robe from nexona .

When ib was strugglin to figth and train out tmo u ghosted.

Atleats people like Adriana fougth, u got some pixels and run leavin behind ur guildmates.

[Godefroi]

u got it thanks to the rotation otherwise nada nada. because i dont remember u trying to help in vp alot once u got the robe from nexona .

When ib was strugglin to figth and train out tmo u ghosted.

Atleats people like Adriana fougth, u got some pixels and run leavin behind ur guildmates.

Yup I wasn't interested in training. I went back with FE that one night and raped your sorry asses and killed druushk on top. As much as it was fun, it just aint classic.

Going on a retarded crusade of "fight for your pixels" is just out of the topic. EQ on live wasn't a train war, it was a mobilization war. Trains happened here and there like they do in Hate, or Fear or other zones. But training as it currently is on P99, as to wipe entire encounters to keep them from attempting at a dragon, this never ever was condoned by live CSR rules. This was proven to you in this thread with official docs...

Now you may carry on ranting and try to derail, yet you just have no argument against this.

[timhutton]

u got it thanks to the rotation otherwise nada nada. because i dont remember u trying to help in vp alot once u got the robe from nexona .

When ib was strugglin to figth and train out tmo u ghosted.

Atleats people like Adriana fougth, u got some pixels and run leavin behind ur guildmates.

Isn't that more or less his point, and the entire point of this whole fucking thread?

That people DON'T WANT TO TRAIN each other on a PVE server. Not wanting to train people isn't a character flaw, what the fuck is wrong with you?

Sometimes I really am curious just how far people on this server would go for pixels. They already track 24/7 through 3 and 4 day variance windows (non-classic) and also train other people to keep them out of zones (non-classic). I seriously wonder if Rogean just charged like $5 for a shot at mobs how many of you would pay it to show up and get pixels. It's sickening.

I wish the staff would take a more hands on approach to fixing the raid scene. It would take some work for a month or 2, but once things were dealt with in a harsh manner the players would begin to either adapt or leave and things would sort themselves out.

Non-classic features so that the raid scene can be as Laissez-faire as possible is a HUGE problem on a server that wants to imitate "classic" EQ.

Why don't people see that?

[Arteker]

Isn't that more or less his point, and the entire point of this whole fucking thread?

That people DON'T WANT TO TRAIN each other on a PVE server. Not wanting to train people isn't a character flaw, what the fuck is wrong with you?

Sometimes I really am curious just how far people on this server would go for pixels. They already track 24/7 through 3 and 4 day variance windows (non-classic) and also train other people to keep them out of zones (non-classic). I seriously wonder if Rogean just charged like $5 for a shot at mobs how many of you would pay it to show up and get pixels. It's sickening.

I wish the staff would take a more hands on approach to fixing the raid scene. It would take some work for a month or 2, but once things were dealt with in a harsh manner the players would begin to either adapt or leave and things would sort themselves out.

Non-classic features so that the raid scene can be as Laissez-faire as possible is a HUGE problem on a server that wants to imitate "classic" EQ.

Why don't people see that?

people dont want to play train wars in vp when it was made clear by tmo it would not work on us, we would take it and give back x2.

the problem u got with me i dont like hypocrites who where the main hell raisers and defenders of train wars and at first match they run out and claim agaisnt it.

and as i said tmo has been most trained guild in server in vp, did it worked? did we come to forums to cry? no fuck we took it and accept it and keep going on.

are the others crying when tmo pays with the same coin who come run to forums to cry and moan .

understand me i would be a 100% agreee with the instance of no trains in vp if it come from real people like vertigo and others no from people who wanted actualy to train the fuck of me and when dont worked they come here to cry.

[Arteker]

Yup I wasn't interested in training. I went back with FE that one night and raped your sorry asses and killed druushk on top. As much as it was fun, it just aint classic.

Going on a retarded crusade of "fight for your pixels" is just out of the topic. EQ on live wasn't a train war, it was a mobilization war. Trains happened here and there like they do in Hate, or Fear or other zones. But training as it currently is on P99, as to wipe entire encounters to keep them from attempting at a dragon, this never ever was condoned by live CSR rules. This was proven to you in this thread with official docs...

Now you may carry on ranting and try to derail, yet you just have no argument against this.

you dreamin. back in the real eq it was prety common to see trains from other guilds coming, unlike ehre there was no fraps or GMs poping 30 mins after u do a petition to watch the case.

why then soe bring up instanced and flags? to avoid such problems , of course then guilds would start killing these mobs to block other guilds from advance.

[timhutton]

understand me i would be a 100% agreee with the instance of no trains in vp if it come from real people like vertigo and others no from people who wanted actualy to train the fuck of me and when dont worked they come here to cry.


Look at the poll results.. "real people" don't want training in VP. What more do you need lol.

[JayN]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFPwI3r4c-I

[Arteker]

Look at the poll results.. "real people" don't want training in VP. What more do you need lol.

pools are anonim , and most people not even keyed for the event. make a census of every player keyed and i will believe it, and more with the thousands of fake ammounts of forum accounts.

[timhutton]

pools are anonim , and most people not even keyed for the event. make a census of every player keyed and i will believe it, and more with the thousands of fake ammounts of forum accounts.

Why do you only care about the opinions of keyed members? Doesn't the "thousands of fake ammounts of forum accounts." argument work both ways? It is a public poll after all.

You're not making much sense..

You don't actually mean to tell me that you only care about the opinion of the public that are willing to state their names and are also keyed for VP do you?

Please tell me you realize this poll/server is not just about them. That's like saying "I think only registered republicans who publically state their name should be allowed to vote for a republican presidential nominee". I mean, polls are usually anonymous and open to all of a legal age. How else can you get public opinio.. why am I even typing this out jesus fuck you are messed up for the things you think.

[timhutton]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFPwI3r4c-I

Let's be friends.

[Tasslehofp99]

said the guy who only zone into VP to train TMO with 2 or 3 guildmates, with 0 intention of killing any dragons, only to fuck TMO up and make 'em waste their time...

You're not fooling anyone here lol, you guys have been training us *for fun* for months and now... well it looks like it's not so fun anymore? You bored bro?

TMO never trained any guild without an intention of killing the dragons, with a raiding force ready to log on and do the work. We don't train for fun, you guys are the only ones who did it with pleasure.

The people who you're referring to inherited the rule set that currently exists in VP, and would love nothing else but to do away with the flawed rules!

[Godefroi]

Olidaen, I know it's really hard for you since you're very eager to spread your Pro TMO propaganda, but you can browse back up to the beginning of the thread and see for yourself the official documents provided describing the EQ live CSR Rules.

Now, wether or not the GMs want to enforce them is another issue (they probably won't, due to the amount of petition it represents).

You just can't argue against this, yet you can carry on trying :D

[Vandy]

TMO never trained any guild without an intention of killing the dragons, with a raiding force ready to log on and do the work. We don't train for fun, you guys are the only ones who did it with pleasure.


So you are saying on a Server Repop if anther guild goes for VP first you would not Train Stall/Delay them while you clean up outside raid targets you would either

A. Let them attempt VP dragon while you kill outside targets

or

B. Train them and IMMEDIATELY go into VP to kill dragons leaving outside targets to other guilds?

[Motec]

Of course we will, we're always planning to kill these dragons... so we will have to train and buy time until we're ready to do VP. We still train in order to kill these dragons...

As recent as 3 weeks ago TMO zoned in with 1-4 people and trained for 4 hours straight to prevent a kill, with no raid force ready or batphoned, or aware, or online, and about 15 people in voip.

[Vandy]

Of course we will, we're always planning to kill these dragons... so we will have to train and buy time until we're ready to do VP. We still train in order to kill these dragons...

Yes but would you support a rule of no training unless you have a raid force mobilizing outside VP ready to move in? For the most part you would still get most if not all of VP mobs. And it would eliminate the outside element of random 2-4 fucks that want to train and grief for fun.

Yes on patch/repop days you MAY, probably not, have to send a raid to VP in order to protect those mobs and it would cause you to get less of the outside mobs as you would have to have a smaller outside force doing as much clean up as possible. It is a Patch Solution, since training isn't going anywhere, that can benefit most of the server.

You get less trains from people who aren't going to raid.
Could POSSIBLY open up a little more content outside of VP to smaller guilds IF someone decided to contest you on Repop days for VP.

[Godefroi]

Of course we will, we're always planning to kill these dragons... so we will have to train and buy time until we're ready to do VP. We still train in order to kill these dragons...

You're argumentation is just retarded. FE entered VP after Zeelot clearly stated TMO would train to death anyone attempting a dragon in there.

People training TMO in VP is outta grudge due to this, it's not people training TMO out of the blue in VP.

Train war happened in VP because you gave people no other choice, now don't go crying when bored people still go train your sorry zergling asses in there lol.

This said, you miss the point of the thread. It's not about P99 guilds, it's about the server following strict classic CSR rules as they were displayed to you at the beginning of the thread.

Disruption of atleast one player isn't allowed, even in non-CSR zone. that was on live and is written in the official CSR documents.. What to say then about disruption of entire guilds in order to avoid having them attempt at an encounter.

It's not 'cause thing happened in a retarded way for ages that they ought not to be corrected. Stop playing dumb and try to stay on topic amiguito

[Alarti0001]

As recent as 3 weeks ago TMO zoned in with 1-4 people and trained for 4 hours straight to prevent a kill, with no raid force ready or batphoned, or aware, or online, and about 15 people in voip.

however we have intention to kill a dragon. Sorry your app didnt work out motec.

[Alarti0001]

You're argumentation is just retarded. FE entered VP after Zeelot clearly stated TMO would train to death anyone attempting a dragon in there.

People training TMO in VP is outta grudge due to this, it's not people training TMO out of the blue in VP.

Train war happened in VP because you gave people no other choice, now don't go crying when bored people still go train your sorry zergling asses in there lol.

This said, you miss the point of the thread. It's not about P99 guilds, it's about the server following strict classic CSR rules as they were displayed to you at the beginning of the thread.

Disruption of atleast one player isn't allowed, even in non-CSR zone. that was on live and is written in the official CSR documents.. What to say then about disruption of entire guilds in order to avoid having them attempt at an encounter.

It's not 'cause thing happened in a retarded way for ages that they ought not to be corrected. Stop playing dumb and try to stay on topic amiguito

On live there was a subscription you had to pay too. Got any other useless information to spew?

Go update your meetic profile you lonely virgin.

[Godefroi]

I know I easily step on your sack Olidaen, I'd really love to see my TMO app , can you please provide it mister butthurt ?:p This summer I app'd to the beach and made full member, got even tan skinned as epic loot, you should both give it a go pasty boys lol

Sirken said it all in his twitch about VP. He announced changes to pathing in VP will be made and that the staff is alright with it become a non trainable zone, as long as it doesn't mean a headache for them regarding petitions.

I guess it just means a couple of raids showing racing in VP instead of training, we all count on you no life EQ TMO fan boys to make it work ;)

[Godefroi]

It's a noble attempt at derailing the thread Olibug, but unless you provide screenshots or any proof, you're just nerd raging on me 'cause i'm making you look like a fool :D

[Motec]

however we have intention to kill a dragon. Sorry your app didnt work out motec.

No problem mate, your loss really. I have muchos free time, ample classes and a want to kill shit. But I'm also happy to wait. No hard feelings from me bud.

[Godefroi]

TMO has nothing to offer to me, never had. I have no reason to app. Sorry to ruin your dreams Olidaen :D

Still waiting on your screenshots bro hahahah

[Llodd]

krissdu64 every post you make has no objectivity whatsoever. You do realise that your constant diatribe just makes you appear retarded right? How about taking one go at making your case with reasoned argument.

[kotton05]

80% who voted never experienced a train war.

15% did experience the train war on a non FD class

4% experienced it as an FD class and had a blast

1% got loot

Training in vp is all about disrupting the engage, the real griefing was when folks was zoning out and getting trained. Maybe if the dragon gets killed no training occurs during CR/exit? I can see that being a reasonable middle ground to start with if anything is ever changed. Otherwise better have ur clicky jboots n lev fresh>_<

[Nirgon]

With account selling/trading abolished, I think the staff is gravitating closer to Verant's original policies which imo really worked.

Hopefully we can continue to flesh out "no CSR involvement" zones.

One thing that.... let me see who is ranking bull buster now... Sirken I think in game... needs to know is that the head GMs could literally take the law into their own hands and do whatever it takes to ensure a fair and enjoyable experience for all.

I think Big Uth leveraged this quite a bit and just told players "here's how its going to work during this dispute, deal with it". Sometimes he went too far, but I can personally attest to the head GM on the server being able to decide whatever they wanted to do whereas senior guides/lower ranking GMs had to go with a firm adherence to written law and appeal to server head in extreme cases.

For instance, should this be a live server (which is what I think we're going for here) Sirken could say: "All Kunark dragons: Sev, Tal, Gore will now be on a raid calendar rotation". You'd be forced to deal with it if we were following live server creed. GMs could tell players to stay out of a zone if another guild was there too.

All that said, I know VP was in very bold font a "stay the hell out of here zone". But then there was the case of Ozuri on RZ attending the Sabbat VP raid and even attacking mobs.

/shrug

Training is allowed in VP, and will be allowed in Sleeper's.

Let's just hope the Sleeper keys are correctly body bound to players to introduce a more high stakes experience.

[quido]

I'd really like to see some VP wars fan fiction.

[Nirgon]

Seek out Slathar on red

[Splorf22]

80% who voted never experienced a train war.

15% did experience the train war on a non FD class

4% experienced it as an FD class and had a blast

1% got loot

We should enable PVP and see how much fun you FD classes have getting rooted/raptured in front of your trains. That might deflate your god complexes a little.

[Clark]

We should enable PVP and see how much fun you FD classes have getting rooted/raptured in front of your trains. That might deflate your God complexes a little.

lol

[Alarti0001]

No problem mate, your loss really.

You are the only one to think so :P

[Alarti0001]

We should enable PVP and see how much fun you FD classes have getting rooted/raptured in front of your trains. That might deflate your god complexes a little.

God Complex vs God Complex who wins?

[Splorf22]

God Complex vs God Complex who wins?

enchanter

[Luchino]

enchanter

Hoshkar

[Autotune]

that's not what you said, when you had no epic... anyways you asked me to join and Zeelot rejected it instantly. Now you're saying i'm lying? Well, who's the liar... you ? me ? Your reputation should do the rest...

He asked you to join, yet never once asked me to vouch for him? I call bullshit lol.

[pasi]

Loraen, you can still rezbox/DA Idol train.

As a casual player, I'd like to see other non-CSR zones enable training. Seems dumb to limit training to just the key'd folk.

[Tasslehofp99]

For the folks who think GM's weren't allowed into VP on live, you're wrong.

For the folks who think training "was allowed" in VP by live GM's, you're wrong.

I know the thread is really long but we established that Non-CSR did NOT mean anything goes. It just meant GM's would not help you recover your corpse, unless it was lost due to a glitch in the zone. It didn't mean FFA, like people seem to be under the impression on p99. The rules of the PNP regarding training/griefing still applied on like atleast the PVE servers.

As Nirgon said though, in some cases the "head GM" of a server would make specific rulings based on certain disputes. But seriously, training was never allowed by GM's on live and disciplinary action was always taken by GM's if it was proven to be intentional.

On live, Planes of Hate, Fear and Sky were all non-CSR zones as well. Are you trying to tell me training and anything goes type rules were allowed in these zones as well? Bullshit.

To the people who don't think this is true, do some research on the topic please.

[Tasslehofp99]

Open up them Kunark instruction manuals/player guides(a quick google search should bring you to either of them) and check out the 2 page statement from the head CSR rep of Verant Interactive. PNP was enforced regardless of zone, non-CSR just meant that you are on your own to recover your corpse should you decide you want to risk zoning into VP/Hate/Fear/sky.

[Autotune]

Why are you bringing up that again? That has already been stated here, in this thread by the staff, that it means absolutely nothing as to why VP is the way it is.

[Clark]

293-135 in favor of having new rules for VP

Staff successfully ignores the majority once again..

[JayN]

the other side can makeup phoney polls and make many fake account to vote too; this is bullshit at its finest.

fuck you whiney ass bitches "BE AMAN FORUM BITCHES"!

Im thinking the EQ EZ server or stormhaven is moar yalls style... you can go work on your tan then go two box down VP by your lonesome narcissistic FAT self and get all that "PHATY LEWTZ" on all your toons

[JayN]

putting up one of these outside VP; keep you scum out once and for all

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7I_-j2S-QNk

[Motec]

You are the only one to think so :P

Pains me memories learnt in blood were short remembered. Shall I disband my tagged characters?

[kotton05]

We should enable PVP and see how much fun you FD classes have getting rooted/raptured in front of your trains. That might deflate your god complexes a little.

Dispel sticks, da, voidance/ww...

Someone mad I killed them buying vp rots and trust me you won't be able to do shit. Cause if you have "help" I'm sure I'd have back up as well.

God complex? I think you're self projecting...

[FenninEQaddict]

We should enable PVP and see how much fun you FD classes have getting rooted/raptured in front of your trains. That might deflate your god complexes a little.

But then you couldnt buy all your VP gear. Though from hearing talk about it you should be almost done buying it all. How much did it run you? Its funny I was looking at all your posts and how much you bash TMO and then your gobbling up their table scraps.

[Alarti0001]

293-135 in favor of having new rules for VP

Staff successfully ignores the majority once again..

Obviously an unscientific poll proves nothing. Can you prove that Taslehoff didn't maybe 240 accounts to vote in this thread? Derp.

[kotton05]

If Tass did all the yes votes I wouldn't even be mad.

[Raavak]

Could this dumbest of threads reach 1000 posts?
Let's whine about changing some other rules when we try and fail at the established ruleset. Isn't that how things are always done now-a-days?

[kotton05]

^ usually each generation has a little revolution to buck the system but being time locked in kunark means we are stuck and it ain't changing till the dolorian's flux capacitor is fixed.

[Borador]

100 pages, might as well comment again...

Griefers are assholes. The only retaliation to griefers should be a report and a ban. This covers more than just training in VP. Rule #1 for making the internet a better place, don't be a dick.

[Champion_Standing]

Obviously an unscientific poll proves nothing. Can you prove that Taslehoff didn't maybe 240 accounts to vote in this thread? Derp.

Yes, log into one of your alt accounts and try to vote. Derp

[FenninEQaddict]

Blue should go Red for a week see how many people survive that.

[kbnexus]

Yes, log into one of your alt accounts and try to vote. Derp


Ok I just did.. it worked.

[Autotune]

there is a little crew of people (TMO) defending the current state of VP, even though it's non classic.

The staff agrees current rules are bullshit, but do not want to deal with the headache making VP non trainable would induce.

Why?

Because TMO would carry on training in VP and make it impossible for GMs to enforce rules.

Why?

Because without VP, there is absolutely no reason to be in TMO.

You idiots think TMO holds some power over GMs. If GMs wanted to, they could easily straight fuck TMO off the server for noncompliance on rules.

GMs don't want to deal with having to figure out if guild < Craptastic raiders who bitch and moan daily > just trained themselves and petitioned it as if TMO did it or if TMO actually did have a member train them either on purpose or on accident. This also applies to TMO (though they would be less inclined to do it now compared to when they were fighting IB/TR). Why don't they want to do it in this zone compared to other zones? Well, that is because the pathing in VP is still horrid.

[Splorf22]

Its funny I was looking at all your posts and how much you bash TMO

I'm genuinely curious to see this huge flood of posts bashing TMO.

[JayN]

bunch of micro penis having whiny fagits, they dont train everyone that goes there... Hell ive even seen them award loot to another guild!

this thread is reeking fresh fish.

try diplomacy and respect rather then just crying your bitch eyes out on the forums, would probably get you a lot further.

[Llodd]

You idiots think TMO holds some power over GMs. If GMs wanted to, they could easily straight fuck TMO off the server for noncompliance on rules.

How did you read that into what he said? anyway

GMs don't want to deal with having to figure out if guild < Craptastic raiders who bitch and moan daily > just trained themselves and petitioned it as if TMO did it or if TMO actually did have a member train them either on purpose or on accident. This also applies to TMO (though they would be less inclined to do it now compared to when they were fighting IB/TR). Why don't they want to do it in this zone compared to other zones? Well, that is because the pathing in VP is still horrid.

What is so unique about this zone that it's impossible to fix the pathing issues? I realise recently they did try to make changes to how the pathing in there works and it appears it hasn't made much difference. SO what gives.

[Tasslehofp99]

How did you read that into what he said? anyway



What is so unique about this zone that it's impossible to fix the pathing issues? I realise recently they did try to make changes to how the pathing in there works and it appears it hasn't made much difference. SO what gives.

Training being allowed there makes it impossible for GM's to acquire legitimate info from multiple guilds regarding the state of the zone. Training isn't classic, wasn't allowed on live in VP despite what many people on this server seem to think. There is tons of proof that training was never allowed by GM's on live. Did it happen? Sure, but if it was proven to be intentional severe punishments were handed to entire guilds.


NON-CSR DOESNT MEAN FREE FOR ALL. It didn't even mean that GM's wouldn't enforce the PNP there. All it meant was you enter at your own risk, and if you happen to die and lose your corpse the GM's wouldn't help you retrieve it. Plane of Fear/Hate/Sky were all also tagged non-CSR, so why isn't training allowed in those zones as well on p99? Just seems like a very contradictory stance regarding classic/non classic implementations on the raid scene to allow training in VP when it certainly wasn't allowed on live.

I understand the whole "GM's don't want 3x more petitions for VP every week" argument, but what is going to happen come velious when there are about 20 times more raid targets? Already there is talk of allowing training in Sleeper's tomb/NTov (not classic) and that would be super unfortunate for the server if training was continued to be allowed moving forward into velious.

[Godefroi]

I understand the whole "GM's don't want 3x more petitions for VP every week" argument, but what is going to happen come velious when there are about 20 times more raid targets? Already there is talk of allowing training in Sleeper's tomb/NTov (not classic) and that would be super unfortunate for the server if training was continued to be allowed moving forward into velious.

Why do you think the staff isn't in a rush at all to release velious ? Exactly for this reason.

[Alarti0001]

Why do you think the staff isn't in a rush at all to release velious ? Exactly for this reason.

The dev team doesnt handle petitions smart guy. Go update your meetic profile.

[Godefroi]

^ still single :D

OK EQ Nazi, before you nerd rage at me , read my posts lol

Staff = Devs + GMs right ?

Pasty, single n mad. Santé!

[Alarti0001]

^ still single :D

OK EQ Nazi, before you nerd rage at me , read my posts lol

Staff = Devs + GMs right ?

Pasty, single n mad. Santé!

Let me explain what you wrote... since you can't seem to form a coherent thought.
You said the "staff" isn't in a rush to release velious because of petitions. This implies the GM staff. However, Velious is delayed for Developer work, not fear of IB/FE petition spam.

Sorry if you managed to confuse yourself.

Unless you are trying to imply that Kanras and Nilbog fear petitions and aren't working as hard as they could...

[Llodd]

Training being allowed there makes it impossible for GM's to acquire legitimate info from multiple guilds regarding the state of the zone. Training isn't classic, wasn't allowed on live in VP despite what many people on this server seem to think. There is tons of proof that training was never allowed by GM's on live. Did it happen? Sure, but if it was proven to be intentional severe punishments were handed to entire guilds.


NON-CSR DOESNT MEAN FREE FOR ALL. It didn't even mean that GM's wouldn't enforce the PNP there. All it meant was you enter at your own risk, and if you happen to die and lose your corpse the GM's wouldn't help you retrieve it. Plane of Fear/Hate/Sky were all also tagged non-CSR, so why isn't training allowed in those zones as well on p99? Just seems like a very contradictory stance regarding classic/non classic implementations on the raid scene to allow training in VP when it certainly wasn't allowed on live.

I understand the whole "GM's don't want 3x more petitions for VP every week" argument, but what is going to happen come velious when there are about 20 times more raid targets? Already there is talk of allowing training in Sleeper's tomb/NTov (not classic) and that would be super unfortunate for the server if training was continued to be allowed moving forward into velious.

I dont know why you're replying to my query with all this. The point is, staff don't want to deal with that zone because of it's pathing issues making trains common and difficult to ascertain who is responsible for what.

It seems to me the only way it will ever change is either the GM's come down really hard with a take_no_shit policy and just ban people. Which obviously would work after an inititial chaos period. Something Sirken has repeatedly, and unfortunately imo, stated he wont do.

Which leaves the only other option of getting the pathing sorted out, hence my question as to why is it so difficult to sort out. What is unique about this zone that prevents the devs from being able to code the pathing correctly.

[Nirgon]

TMO has power over GMs lmfao.

Any recent TMO apps that became members get an email welcoming them to the diplomatic immunity club?

That's what I thought.

[Tasslehofp99]

TMO has power over GMs lmfao.

Any recent TMO apps that became members get an email welcoming them to the diplomatic immunity club?

That's what I thought.

The point of the thread is that the rules are fucked in VP, and not a good representation of what VP raiding was on live. Everyone says training was allowed in VP on live yet there is not one single shread of evidence of this, do you happen to have any?

[heartbrand]

Just reroll on team99 when it launches IMO

[Alarti0001]

The point of the thread is that the rules are fucked in VP, and not a good representation of what VP raiding was on live. Everyone says training was allowed in VP on live yet there is not one single shread of evidence of this, do you happen to have any?

Prove it

[Autotune]

How did you read that into what he said? anyway


Because TMO would carry on training in VP and make it impossible for GMs to enforce rules.
Probably because he is implying GMs couldn't do their job because of something a guild does...
Like I said, GMs could easily enforce the rules if they wanted to. All it would take is an iron fist approach.

However, as much as the other guilds like to boast non-training, they would cry a river and bitch up a mountain when Sirken handed down a giant raid suspension for training on accident.


What is so unique about this zone that it's impossible to fix the pathing issues? I realise recently they did try to make changes to how the pathing in there works and it appears it hasn't made much difference. SO what gives.


I don't think the zone is that unique, I believe it just hasn't seen much from the devs.

Not to mention, that while the zone was going to be released, the pathing dev was called out to be abusing his powers (true/untrue as it may have been) and ultimately quit. This left VP without anyone to focus on its pathing as the other devs, I believe, were/are focused on Velious.

From what I have seen now there is a new dev working on pathing, but he/she either isn't an expert (not being an ass), has given VP very little attention, or has been focusing on Velious zones more (or some combination of those).