The Top 4 Most Depressing Facts about the Titanium Client

[Stinkum]

1. We will never have a character "mirror window" in inventory screen because this was edited out of the Titanium client.

http://i.imgur.com/cZbsA1Q.png

2. The proper "classic" darkness vision for Humans, Erudites, Barbarians cannot be recreated here because "darkness vision" was edited out of the Titanium client.

http://tagn.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/saequi.jpg

3. The stamina mechanic which causes stamina loss for melee swings will never be recreated because the whole feature was edited out of the Titanium client.

http://i.imgur.com/OCOTajH.png

4. Item linking cannot be removed from the Titanium client.

http://www.troublesbraids.net/old_eq/palor_bb.jpg

[Nirgon]

Great thread +1

[Ele]

Great thread +2

[Halius]

Great thread +3

[Loli Pops]

+4

[Laugher]

lol also old LS screen (couldn't find one for char select) and while googling found a pic of a magazine ad for eq haha

http://i.imgur.com/UpWUMEo.jpg

[Ravager]

It'd be a dream come true if Yeahlight gave EQClassic to Rogean to host. (a pipedream come true). I really miss the old client.

[Thulack]

Wondermon needs to learn how to spell. geez man lol.

[Ravager]

lol also old LS screen (couldn't find one for char select) and while googling found a pic of a magazine ad for eq haha

http://i.imgur.com/UpWUMEo.jpg

I wonder what demographic they were targetting with that one.

[zanderklocke]

It'd be a dream come true if Yeahlight gave EQClassic to Rogean to host. (a pipedream come true). I really miss the old client.

Since two weeks ago, looks like EQClassic is having some problems due to SOE. Read the July entry.

http://www.eqclassic.org/index.php

[zanderklocke]

Any thread that has Stinkum, Ele, and Nirgon on the first page and first few replies is destined to be a good thread.

[kaev]

...

[B]2. The proper "classic" darkness vision for Humans, Erudites, Barbarians cannot be recreated here because "darkness vision" was edited out of the Titanium client.

...

1. Started July '99
2. Had Voodoo card instead of the budget crap others played with
3. Used Gamma Slider
4. ???
5. my human/barbarian/erudite characters weren't blind at night!


shit thread -9000

[Laledorie]

Great post! It's funny, I didn't even realize how different Titanium is from the original EQ. I'm glad the UI is newer, that one was downright painful! >.<

[diplo]

back when i was 12, it was dark as fuck in qhills and too scary, so i did what every other fearful 12 year old did...went to oasis.

[senna]

Since two weeks ago, looks like EQClassic is having some problems due to SOE. Read the July entry.

http://www.eqclassic.org/index.php

Man that guy is an annoying blowhard

[quido]

I would think they can recreate the endurance effect somehow.

[Ravager]

Yeah, read about that thing with EQClassic, but from the replies in that thread I got the impression that Yeahlight would still finish the project and there was the glimmer of possibility he'd give it to someone else to host. One can dream.

Greater Faydark was always pitch black too, even with elf vision I remember getting lost in the dark. When I first got my Mask of Deception it got me killed more than once because I was always using it for Ultravision.

[timhutton]

This is why EQClassic is so good. If only it weren't essentially vaporware! The Alpha was really fun, playing on that client again and running around the available zones.

[myriverse]

No spellbook in the face has gotta rank up there, as well.

[LordSterben]

I wonder what demographic they were targetting with that one.

Drunk bar sluts. It must have worked since there's so many women that look like that playing this game!!

[Gadwen]

Since two weeks ago, looks like EQClassic is having some problems due to SOE. Read the July entry.

http://www.eqclassic.org/index.php

What I get out of this is that the guy pretty much never intended to actually complete the project, he basically set himself up with an impossible scenario. There is no way that he really believed SOE was going to host a classic EQ server for him. SOE would have created a classic server long ago if they really wanted to, despite the claims of the data just not being there anymore.

[Pringles]

Im all for classic *gameplay* but please dont fuck up the client with by forcing us to use a 1999 interface. Its fine the way it is now.

[khanable]

I get this funny feeling that we might be able to fix item links.

If we were able to bar the use of maps, why can't we bar the use of item links?

One of these days i'll download some source code and fiddle with it.

I WANT TO BELIEVE

[pharmakos]

back in 2000 when i was 14 years old, i never adjusted my gamma slider at night

i suspect night vision wouldn't have been as much of an issue if i had

now on my barb i play with the gamma cranked to 100% 24/7

[radditsu]

lol also old LS screen (couldn't find one for char select) and while googling found a pic of a magazine ad for eq haha

http://i.imgur.com/UpWUMEo.jpg


Login screen can be fixed. Have my p99 one setup w velious. I cycled through the PoP one and stuff as well.

[Telin]

Also it doesn't have the classic spell effects that I need, only the PoP ones and they're still messed up.
It also doesn't have the three combat songs. It can only repeat one midi even if deleting the mp3.
I don't mind the new sky and water though.

[Clark]

woot item linking will stay forever!

[Laugher]

Yeah I just found the duxa all in one exe ui setup thing in the tech discussion and that changed the first login screen (woowoo!) :D (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=28335)

[happyhappy]

Just to get rid of the luclin UI, I think it's worth it to scrap the whole project, start anew on Velious client.

Down with luclin UI and its multichat and itemlinks.

Down with titanium client.

[webrunner5]

Yeah, as a Barbarian running from Permafrost to Blackburrow and back the tunnel between the two zones was a total nightmare. I don't care how high you cranked up the Gamma. :eek:

[Tiggles]

I like this thread.

[1203jjt]

I remember making a barbarian, and then quitting after a few lvls because I was so blind. I stuck to races that could see after that.

[Faerie]

I remember making a human SK, and getting lost in the Freeport tunnels because it was so dark. I was running in random directions with a completely black screen (save the UI) hoping for a glimmer of light.

Camped out and refused to play a human/barb/eru for several years.

[Scrumplet]

Bought the game because my rl friend recommended it. Made an Erudite and played for 2 hours not being able to see in toxx. Uninstalled game and told my friend it was the worst game I had ever played. Glad I gave it a second chance 2 months later.

[myriverse]

Just to get rid of the luclin UI, I think it's worth it to scrap the whole project, start anew on Velious client.

Down with luclin UI and its multichat and itemlinks.

Down with titanium client.
You're one of those people that purposely turns off the colour of their TV. Admit it.

[Smedy]

Yeahlight needs to hook up with Rogean and do some big things. EQ will never feel classic unless i can jackoff to my own avatar in my inventory window while i listen to the beautiful midi music.

[dualentity]

I get this funny feeling that we might be able to fix item links.

If we were able to bar the use of maps, why can't we bar the use of item links?

One of these days i'll download some source code and fiddle with it.

I WANT TO BELIEVE

I too feel like #3 and #4 are things that would be handled server side and not client side.

[nichomachean]

...When I first got my Mask of Deception it got me killed more than once because I was always using it for Ultravision.

I think my guild forgot my rogue really was a barbarian, as I lived in Illusion: Dark Elf always, just to see. :)

I am no programming genius but I still think if one were to take a copy of the original box game (or perhaps the trilogy version) it would surely be easier to recreate an even closer doppelgaenger of classic than with Titanium. I will ship my copy to any enterprising programmer who is willing to try!

By accepting said copy of EverQuest Trilogy, programmer (hereafter known as the "acceptee") agrees to split any and all RMT (real-money trading) profits with provider of said copy of EverQuest Trilogy by an equal fifty percent. :rolleyes:

[Halius]

I think my guild forgot my rogue really was a barbarian, as I lived in Illusion: Dark Elf always, just to see. :)

I am no programming genius but I still think if one were to take a copy of the original box game (or perhaps the trilogy version) it would surely be easier to recreate an even closer doppelgaenger of classic than with Titanium. I will ship my copy to any enterprising programmer who is willing to try!

By accepting said copy of EverQuest Trilogy, programmer (hereafter known as the "acceptee") agrees to split any and all RMT (real-money trading) profits with provider of said copy of EverQuest Trilogy by an equal fifty percent. :rolleyes:

Hell I don't have the trilogy client but I have all my original install discs from Kunark to PoP and would be willing to donate if it helps make the game look and feel more classic, just let me know!

[HeallunRumblebelly]

When the server launched on '09 there was stamina loss. Insane and severe stamina loss. IIRC it caused the melee to swing at half speed...who already had like an 80% miss rate (and huge fail rates on skills!) while the mages AFK leveled. Truly the classic experience we all yearned for :P

They eventually scrapped that shit, never ended up working right. Nothing of value was lost.

[Elizabetha]

Yeah, read about that thing with EQClassic, but from the replies in that thread I got the impression that Yeahlight would still finish the project and there was the glimmer of possibility he'd give it to someone else to host. One can dream.

Greater Faydark was always pitch black too, even with elf vision I remember getting lost in the dark. When I first got my Mask of Deception it got me killed more than once because I was always using it for Ultravision.

As a dwarf, I had some vision ability, but I didn't know how to configure my video properly early on. I remember my first trip to Kelethin. I spotted someone with a lantern headed that way and I asked if I could follow him. Hehe. I remember being scared shitless.

[Ele]

Classic vendor windows. Clicking every item to find out price.

http://i.imgur.com/yPgDU25.png

[Elizabetha]

Classic vendor windows. Clicking every item to find out price.

http://i.imgur.com/yPgDU25.png

Holyomigod I forgot about that completely!

Now you've unblocked memories of tradeskilling with that stupid slider... not being able to type in how many of a stack you want to pick up! Or even click left or right by one!

/e runs away screaming.

[a_gnoll_pup]

bump for classicness.

just gauging interest to see how many people would be willing to contribute.

I've recently began work on merging the capability for having both EQ Titanium and EQMac's windows client (The one that Secrets/Rogean made) working together in unison.

So far I have converted the EQStreamInterface interface to support both EQStream and EQOldStream, a new class I made to support packet handlers with the old client. It will make a new stream depending on what kind of client is connecting, the first packet identifies the stream type, the first opcode identifies the 'patch' (ie; Mac, Trilogy, etc) just like EQEmulator does to support multiple clients at the moment.

The EQOldStream class is based heavily off of EQClassic's work of a packet parser implementation from their public release, but made into an interface that can plug in to EQEmulator and thus use their patch system.

There's a crash issue with it so if anyone is good at debugging multithreaded networking applications I would appreciate the help. The mac client is identified in the stream now, but nothing past that. I used Visual Leak Detector to make sure that the new class does not leak memory, so far that's turning up just fine, so it's something else.

If anyone is interested (and is a programmer) in contributing to this project that Project 1999 could potentially use someday to support both the Titanium and classic-era clients at the same time, I'll put it on Github as a fork of EQEmu. I'm not going to want to do this alone, but I will if I have to. This project will be entirely open source and potentially be merged into EQEmulator's main branch for all servers to use when it's all said and done.

Yes, this means this functionality will work on EQClassic's client if it ends up getting finished after the Mac client is completely done and working, for those who are wondering. It also will support all of EQEmulator's functions (Perl/Lua parsers) up to the era for the client you plug into it.

[t0lkien]

I don't know. I'm all for classic rules, but forcing classic UI is overkill IMO. p99 will lose a lot of players who just hated it and get pissed off at being forced to use it. It's a little ADD IMHO.

[a_gnoll_pup]

I don't know. I'm all for classic rules, but forcing classic UI is overkill IMO. p99 will lose a lot of players who just hated it and get pissed off at being forced to use it. It's a little ADD IMHO.

This is why the EQMac client is so wonderful. It supports both the Planes of Power UI, Velious UI, and Classic UI with a boolean flag to turn the new UI on or off. It's also DirectX 8 which means a LOT of things would be fixed and extra functionality would be awesome. Titanium would still be an option, too, with the setup.

[heals4reals]

Notice the AC and ATK caps in OP. That implemented here?

[Potus]

Yeah, as a Barbarian running from Permafrost to Blackburrow and back the tunnel between the two zones was a total nightmare. I don't care how high you cranked up the Gamma. :eek:

Yup exactly. It was super scary as a young Barbarian to run anywhere. Plus vision items had a purpose.

I also miss the char mirror :(

[Nirgon]

Someone started work on a classic UI here. IMO that work just needs to be finished and the use of the UI to be mandatory, similar to the spell file. However, the implementation imo would be that your char is frozen until you /load those UI files. Probably a Secrets secret fix.

[Halius]

bump for classicness.

just gauging interest to see how many people would be willing to contribute.

I've recently began work on merging the capability for having both EQ Titanium and EQMac's windows client (The one that Secrets/Rogean made) working together in unison.

So far I have converted the EQStreamInterface interface to support both EQStream and EQOldStream, a new class I made to support packet handlers with the old client. It will make a new stream depending on what kind of client is connecting, the first packet identifies the stream type, the first opcode identifies the 'patch' (ie; Mac, Trilogy, etc) just like EQEmulator does to support multiple clients at the moment.

The EQOldStream class is based heavily off of EQClassic's work of a packet parser implementation from their public release, but made into an interface that can plug in to EQEmulator and thus use their patch system.

There's a crash issue with it so if anyone is good at debugging multithreaded networking applications I would appreciate the help. The mac client is identified in the stream now, but nothing past that. I used Visual Leak Detector to make sure that the new class does not leak memory, so far that's turning up just fine, so it's something else.

If anyone is interested (and is a programmer) in contributing to this project that Project 1999 could potentially use someday to support both the Titanium and classic-era clients at the same time, I'll put it on Github as a fork of EQEmu. I'm not going to want to do this alone, but I will if I have to. This project will be entirely open source and potentially be merged into EQEmulator's main branch for all servers to use when it's all said and done.

Yes, this means this functionality will work on EQClassic's client if it ends up getting finished after the Mac client is completely done and working, for those who are wondering. It also will support all of EQEmulator's functions (Perl/Lua parsers) up to the era for the client you plug into it.

Somebody help this guy out! I am not a programmer so I can't help you at all but I think it would be great if EQMac's client could be used here, then you could choose between classic (for those that want complete nostalgia), or velious/pop. Appreciate the work you are doing to get this working!

[Nirgon]

Last thing I tried helping with involved using a hex editor to make pixels fly.

Homie don't play hex editors.

[Stinkum]

Somebody help this guy out! I am not a programmer so I can't help you at all but I think it would be great if EQMac's client could be used here.

[Nirgon]

I'd add that the interest would be P99 *requiring* use of the Velious and classic UI and that this could be branched server code to determine which for Nilbog's timeline.

I'd like to see if it could require the original UI up to Velious and then the Velious UI some time into Velious (I don't think it was a day 1 change?).

[Halius]

I'd add that the interest would be P99 *requiring* use of the Velious and classic UI and that this could be branched server code to determine which for Nilbog's timeline.

I'd like to see if it could require the original UI up to Velious and then the Velious UI some time into Velious (I don't think it was a day 1 change?).

I think this would be a good idea, only problem is people that are used to custom UIs at this point would probably hate this idea considering the server has been open for so long already.

[Dac321]

2. The proper "classic" darkness vision for Humans, Erudites, Barbarians cannot be recreated here because "darkness vision" was edited out of the Titanium client.

http://tagn.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/saequi.jpg

Defining EverQuest fear is running through Kithicor at night as a newb trying to get that 6th spot in a Highpass group.. Praying that the last few seconds of your SoW last as your run blindly up the wall..

[Ele]

I think this would be a good idea, only problem is people that are used to custom UIs at this point would probably hate this idea considering the server has been open for so long already.

Need to just rip off the Bandaid(R) brand bandage sometimes.

[Stinkum]

I think this would be a good idea, only problem is people that are used to custom UIs at this point would probably hate this idea considering the server has been open for so long already.

People have got too comfortable and lazy. They need to be reminded that this is called Project 1999 for a reason. If you do not want to play 1999-era Everquest, then this is not the right server for you. Nilbog has stated in the past that he will force a classic UI with a full-screen meditation book on all of us the exact moment he is able to code it to do so.

I agree with him.

[Ele]

People have got too comfortable and lazy. They need to be reminded that this is called Project 1999 for a reason. If you do not want to play 1999-era Everquest, then this is not the right server for you. Nilbog has stated in the past that he will force a classic UI with a full-screen meditation book on all of us the exact moment he is able to code it to do so.

I agree with him.

big ups :D

[Halius]

People have got too comfortable and lazy. They need to be reminded that this is called Project 1999 for a reason. If you do not want to play 1999-era Everquest, then this is not the right server for you. Nilbog has stated in the past that he will force a classic UI with a full-screen meditation book on all of us the exact moment he is able to code it to do so.

I agree with him.

Well awesome, so do I. Hopefully it can get worked out.

[Nirgon]

I think this would be a good idea, only problem is people that are used to custom UIs

People should not get "used" to things that are not classic here as they are very likely to change. Hopefully night time vision and the UI can be done as icing on the cake along with the spells effects. Mechanics should always come first.

[Stinkum]

I mean do you guys honestly intend to remove item linking, force spell-book meditation and return us to this?:
http://www.tentonhammer.com/image/view/65353/preview

UHM. Given the option, hell yes.

http://expresswithgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Jack-Nicholson-Thumbs-Up.gif

[Nirgon]

Please let us return to that. It was a foundation for what great MMOs should have become. Ones that satisfy the niche of players who appreciate a real online interactive world where players have reputations and actions have consequences (social ones too).

Nostalgia level off the charts for old UI / night time if it came tomorrow.

[Halius]

That is a big part of the reason that I occasionally log into EQMac, because I can play with the old UI. Brings back so many good memories of just how awesome MMOs can be. Although that UI forces you to have such a small screen it is how the game was played in 1999 so I'm all for that implementation if it is possible.

[Droog007]

I think this should definitely be a part of the much-rumored "timeline server", or maybe a future iteration thereof... make you have to really want that pre-nerf guise just a lil bit more than the next nerdy d-bag.

[Knubb]

I started playing right after Kunark came out and don't remember being forced to use that UI. This is what I remember:

http://i.imgur.com/CaEQG2H.jpg

When did the ability to go fullscreen like this happen?

[Nirgon]

^ barb has velious armor graphic above, so, after Velious

That persona icon screams class identity. RIP class identity in MMOs.

[Knubb]

Wow, I guess my memory pre-Velious is incredibly fuzzy.

[Stinkum]

Wow, I guess my memory pre-Velious is incredibly fuzzy.

Even in the Pre-Velious UI, you could always press F10 to toggle between (1) Opaque Mode (2) Transparent Mode and (3) No UI.

Opaque Mode:

http://i.imgur.com/beT7Jb1.png

Transparent Mode:

http://i.imgur.com/9PpyMOx.png?1

[Knubb]

Even in the Pre-Velious UI, you could always press F10 to toggle between (1) Opaque Mode (2) Transparent Mode and (3) No UI.

AHHH!

That's it, then. I played in transparent mode in the old UI.

[Nirgon]

The opaque/transparent toggle did ship with the game. But the notable differences should be listed here in another thread.

[Faerie]

Velious UI added more hotkeys and the ability to make different chat windows, right? Or did the different chat windows come with Luclin?

EDIT: Maybe it was just that you could move things around in Velious UI?

[Ele]

Sept. 28, 2000 (Kunark)

***User Interface Changes***

Many UI enhancements were made in today's patch:

*Moving and Resizing Windows*

The data windows in the full screen "HUD" mode may now be moved by
clicking in the upper left-hand corner, moving them to where you want,
then clicking again. The "spell effect" and "chat" windows can be
resized by clicking on the lower right-hand corner, dragging to the
appropriate size, and then clicking again. Coordinates for window
locations in each resolution are stored in the EQCLIENT.INI file.

[a_gnoll_pup]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znDk2_UUj0w

What's working so far (not much, but you can see it works.)

[Ele]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znDk2_UUj0w

What's working so far (not much, but you can see it works.)

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

<3

[Stinkum]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znDk2_UUj0w

What's working so far (not much, but you can see it works.)

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lhqz4soO9g1qcxxyoo1_500.gif

[TheRusty]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znDk2_UUj0w

What's working so far (not much, but you can see it works.)

Unf! Gimme some of DAT!

don't suppose the EQmac client has the "classic" skies?
http://www.mmonotebook.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/aviak_large.jpg
'cause the flat sprites and fog are really, really, really hideous

[Weekapaug]

1. Started July '99
2. Had Voodoo card instead of the budget crap others played with
3. Used Gamma Slider
4. ???
5. my human/barbarian/erudite characters weren't blind at night!


shit thread -9000

I had the same. It was all relative. You could turn gamma up, but then everything was blown out.

Still not the same.

[phacemeltar]

please someone stop hacking the government and use your skills to make a new client which adds nightblindness.

i would totally use a modified client even if everyone else could see at night. in fact, this is the only reason all my toons are human.

[JonathanHancock]

It's funny because the real time "character mirror" was actually ahead of its time and is now standard in all MMO inventory screens hahaha.

[Atlis]

/hidecorpse all stops corpses from cluttering our screen! It's awful, and not classic!

[pharmakos]

my current barbarian warrior is blind as fuck if i put the gamma slider to 50% and don't have a lightsource in his inventory

i think when i was 13 i just refused to crank the gamma slider

[Morgander]

It'd be a dream come true if Yeahlight gave EQClassic to Rogean to host. (a pipedream come true). I really miss the old client.

I'm currently asking Yeahlight (as he no longer has interest in hosting a classic server using his work) if I can have his permission to use his work to host a classic (trilogy client) server.

[skorge]

http://www.troublesbraids.net/old_eq/palor_bb.jpg

well we can all start using the word "woot" again

[Estolcles]

well we can all start using the word "woot" again

You mean people stopped?

[pharmakos]

woot

[Swish]

http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/283/0/2/party_owl_says_woot_woot_by_nix916-d30iqop.jpg

[Clark]

http://s17.postimg.org/vy3liofm7/577579_341520795959840_1367267342_n.png

[Swish]

my current barbarian warrior is blind as fuck if i put the gamma slider to 50% and don't have a lightsource in his inventory

i think when i was 13 i just refused to crank the gamma slider

My first real main on live was a dark elf wizard, and a dark elf because my eyes were so strained trying to play anything else :D

[scarthearmada]

I'm currently asking Yeahlight (as he no longer has interest in hosting a classic server using his work) if I can have his permission to use his work to host a classic (trilogy client) server.

Did you end up having any luck? There are a ton of us who would love to see YL and P99 make up, so we can have a classic client, P99's content with YL's server code.

[scarthearmada]

It'd be a dream come true if Yeahlight gave EQClassic to Rogean to host. (a pipedream come true). I really miss the old client.

No joke, someone should sort out the conflict between YL and P99. Whatever it is!

[BillyCranston]

Yeahlight will never release a server. That dude is the biggest joke of any emulated game.

"No, no. This mechanic is 99% done. I mean, that 1% is a catastrophic error that prevents the entire core mechanic from functioning like it should. But it's 99% done!!!"

"I have no interest in hosting a server without legitimate data."

aka - I have no interest in doing anything, I just like the attention, please give me more.

[Reguiy]

Oh man, I wish we had these shitty features. Wait, nevermind.

[Ezalor]

Oh man, I wish we had these shitty features. Wait, nevermind.

I never got why people come here then bitch about things that are classic. Do you go to bars then complain because they serve alcohol too?

There's a shitload of other emus that aren't trying to recreate classic EQ. The name of the server is Project 1999, and the mission is recreating everything about Everquest in 1999. If that's not what you're for, you should be playing something else.

[Reguiy]

I never got why people come here then bitch about things that are classic. Do you go to bars then complain because they serve alcohol too?

There's a shitload of other emus that aren't trying to recreate classic EQ. The name of the server is Project 1999, and the mission is recreating everything about Everquest in 1999. If that's not what you're for, you should be playing something else.

There's a different between classic gameplay and classic features. I'm all for classic gameplay, however, there are certain updated client features which make things work more smoothly without compromising the integrity ofclassic gameplay. For instance, no one needs to type out 30 characters in chat in order to give someone the stats on the item they just looted. That's just silly.

[kaev]

I had the same. It was all relative. You could turn gamma up, but then everything was blown out.

Still not the same.

Yes, that's true (referring to using gamma slider in "classic" days.) To allow a human/barb/erudite to see in some of the darker places you had to turn gamma up so far that you would be blinded by saturation in places like daylit desert zones. Had to be ready to adjust when you zoned.

[Lopretni]

aka - I have no interest in doing anything, I just like the attention, please give me more.

EQ classic scene seems to attract a lot of these kinds of people.

There's a different between classic gameplay and classic features. I'm all for classic gameplay, however, there are certain updated client features which make things work more smoothly without compromising the integrity ofclassic gameplay. For instance, no one needs to type out 30 characters in chat in order to give someone the stats on the item they just looted. That's just silly.

QFT

Given the UI has a transparent option I don't really see having it as the default to be a problem. But going out of the way to prevent users from using a UI they're comfortable with is ridiculous. I can just see the shit-stuffed socks in your mancaves.

[Nastinate]

Having to play in first person mode made the game much harder and immersive, the only 3rd person views were wacky camera angles.

[myriverse]

EQ's 1st person view was even wackier, imo. No one's view is that restricted! That's why, as soon as I could, I went 3rd person. I've never had a problem with immersion. But hey, I'm old school-- I got plenty immersed with Pac-Man, Frogger, etc.

[AexDestroy]

WTB Sibolit Scail Boots

[Rhambuk]

P99 will never be classic eq without a character mirror. oh how i miss classic.

[Weekapaug]

There's a different between classic gameplay and classic features. I'm all for classic gameplay, however, there are certain updated client features which make things work more smoothly without compromising the integrity ofclassic gameplay. For instance, no one needs to type out 30 characters in chat in order to give someone the stats on the item they just looted. That's just silly.

It's not silly at all. Classic EQ was designed with all of those little incoveniences in mind. By speeding things up with things like item linking, no night blindness, custom ui's etc you trivialize a time element that the content was designed for. During "classic" here we still had things like maps, spellsets and more hotkeys than we ever had during actual classic. If you don't think those things don't allow players to inhale the content than was ever possible in real classic you are simply in denial.

And advocating for such things is just short of advocating for translocators, returning items on incorrect npc turnins, etc. None of it is classic and all of it, including the nonclassic things that are still present, contributes to the monty haul mentality that persists on the part of many here.

If non classic things that one person finds trivial, like UI conveniences are allowed, then another will want something else. If you can insist on keeping item linking, then someone else can insist on keeping spell sets and in game maps. Or 12 hotkeys. Or custom chat channels. etc etc. And it will never end.

The point of the server is to be classic. Not classic-ish. And that's where the line needs to be drawn.

[kaev]

It's not silly at all. Classic EQ was designed with all of those little incoveniences in mind. By speeding things up with things like item linking, no night blindness, custom ui's etc you trivialize a time element that the content was designed for. During "classic" here we still had things like maps, spellsets and more hotkeys than we ever had during actual classic. If you don't think those things don't allow players to inhale the content than was ever possible in real classic you are simply in denial.

And advocating for such things is just short of advocating for translocators, returning items on incorrect npc turnins, etc. None of it is classic and all of it, including the nonclassic things that are still present, contributes to the monty haul mentality that persists on the part of many here.

If non classic things that one person finds trivial, like UI conveniences are allowed, then another will want something else. If you can insist on keeping item linking, then someone else can insist on keeping spell sets and in game maps. Or 12 hotkeys. Or custom chat channels. etc etc. And it will never end.

The point of the server is to be classic. Not classic-ish. And that's where the line needs to be drawn.

Gonna call bullshit on that. As an easy target, your complaint about the speeding up with no night blindness: Halflings get xp bonus, no nightblindness, and better stats for druid/cleric, with the only disadvantage being the horrible background music in Rivervale that even the classic client allowed you to turn off without giving up useful aural feedback.

What you're calling "design" is a semi-random, barely half thought out, don't actually have more than the faintest clue how players will behave, aggregation of goodness and mediocrity and crap that happened to work out okay because some of the good bits fit together very well. That doesn't make the bad good, it doesn't turn piles of steaming dung into steak dinners, it just means that there was enough good to outweigh the bad.

[scarthearmada]

It's not silly at all. Classic EQ was designed with all of those little incoveniences in mind. By speeding things up with things like item linking, no night blindness, custom ui's etc you trivialize a time element that the content was designed for. During "classic" here we still had things like maps, spellsets and more hotkeys than we ever had during actual classic. If you don't think those things don't allow players to inhale the content than was ever possible in real classic you are simply in denial.

I think a lot of the EQC people who are now all beyond the custom content server overlook this. Some of them are saying things like, "I rushed through the content on P99 because I knew where everything was." Let's ignore the "I have to finish this!" type of mindset, where you have to get to max level as soon as possible.

A lot of these guys don't seem to realize that you also had a lot of things that made it easier to devour the content faster: item linking, no night blindness, more hotkeys and spellsets. As you said, the time element that the content was designed for was trivialized. It wasn't a classic experience; it couldn't have been.

[Weekapaug]

Gonna call bullshit on that. As an easy target, your complaint about the speeding up with no night blindness: Halflings get xp bonus, no nightblindness, and better stats for druid/cleric, with the only disadvantage being the horrible background music in Rivervale that even the classic client allowed you to turn off without giving up useful aural feedback.

What you're calling "design" is a semi-random, barely half thought out, don't actually have more than the faintest clue how players will behave, aggregation of goodness and mediocrity and crap that happened to work out okay because some of the good bits fit together very well. That doesn't make the bad good, it doesn't turn piles of steaming dung into steak dinners, it just means that there was enough good to outweigh the bad.

WTF are you even talking about?

This discussion isn't about how classic EQ was designed. If you have a problem with halfings having infravision and an exp bonus but other races not, I may or may not disagree with you but we aren't here to "fix" classic EQ beyond any changes that actually occurred during the classic era. Take all that up with Brad McQuaid.

It's about non classic features being available here. As others have said, if you don't want to play on a classic server, there are other EMUs. The stated mission of this server is to recreate classic EQ. Not, classic-ish but with changes and features that came later that people happen to like. Something is either classic and appropriate for this server, or it is not, meaning it is not appropriate for this server.

[kaev]

WTF are you even talking about?

This discussion isn't about how classic EQ was designed. If you have a problem with halfings having infravision and an exp bonus but other races not, I may or may not disagree with you but we aren't here to "fix" classic EQ beyond any changes that actually occurred during the classic era. Take all that up with Brad McQuaid.

It's about non classic features being available here. As others have said, if you don't want to play on a classic server, there are other EMUs. The stated mission of this server is to recreate classic EQ. Not, classic-ish but with changes and features that came later that people happen to like. Something is either classic and appropriate for this server, or it is not, meaning it is not appropriate for this server.

Wow, do you even read your own posts?

It's not silly at all. Classic EQ was designed with all of those little incoveniences in mind. By speeding things up with things like item linking, no night blindness, custom ui's etc you trivialize a time element that the content was designed for...

I'm not complaining about halflings, I'm complaining about the illogic of the arguments in your posts.

[SCB]

It's not silly at all. Classic EQ was designed with all of those little incoveniences in mind.

Absurd. The things you attribute in this post as "Classic EQ" are a mix of failed intent and hardware limitations.

I've heard of rose-colored glasses, but dude you're wearing full-on goggles.

[Tiddlywinks]

There is no way that every single thing that made classic EQ what it was is a direct result of design and planning. There were tons of instances where things were not though of by the developers/designers at the time and were later fixed or removed completely.

That said, whether or not changing them for this server or keeping them classic despite their consequences in the modern era is an entirely different debate and one that devs/staff seem to mostly handle on a per issue basis.

Personally, if it were technically feasible I would love to have everything 100% classic, but know that will never be the case.

[Borador]

Wait wait wait... Item linking is a time sink that affected classic progression?!?!? Is that really what I'm reading here?

I'm all for the purist classic EQ... But don't be so stupid to think that the to sit takes to type out stats somehow affected my leveling in 1999.

[Swish]

People be going crazy. Even if they implemented the classic UI its likely over 50% of players would just press F10 and switch out.

Nobody wants hardcore "classic" really. It might be fun to try for an hour, but people are lazy. Laziness = 80k cleric MQs, and MQ sales are rife. Keep the status quo.

[Tiddlywinks]

Wait wait wait... Item linking is a time sink that affected classic progression?!?!? Is that really what I'm reading here?

I'm all for the purist classic EQ... But don't be so stupid to think that the to sit takes to type out stats somehow affected my leveling in 1999.

I mean, it's not much, but you did just admit that it does take time. So it obviously affects something.

[Tiddlywinks]

People be going crazy. Even if they implemented the classic UI its likely over 50% of players would just press F10 and switch out.

Nobody wants hardcore "classic" really. It might be fun to try for an hour, but people are lazy. Laziness = 80k cleric MQs, and MQ sales are rife. Keep the status quo.

No way, I want hardcore classic, and I'm sure there are others. One of the things I think would be great is if the devs eventually found ways to FORCE things like this so that people who want to be lazy have to go do it elsewhere. Classic or bust bros. Break out them spellbooks, it's time to meditate.

[shuklak]

I still remember the day and zone that I did my first no-book meditate. Talk about episodic memory...

[SCB]

No way, I want hardcore classic, and I'm sure there are others. One of the things I think would be great is if the devs eventually found ways to FORCE things like this so that people who want to be lazy have to go do it elsewhere. Classic or bust bros. Break out them spellbooks, it's time to meditate.

You'll be pleased to note you can still open your spellbook while meditating. I assume you'll always do this from now on.

[Tecmos Deception]

I still remember the day and zone that I did my first no-book meditate. Talk about episodic memory...

Same here :)

[Reguiy]

You'll be pleased to note you can still open your spellbook while meditating. I assume you'll always do this from now on.

^ ^

[susvain0362]

Stinkum consistently great with thiS style of thread

[Aeolwind]

I still remember the day and zone that I did my first no-book meditate. Talk about episodic memory...

Sol B, it was a Saturday, King Room.

[Raavak]

I still remember the day and zone that I did my first no-book meditate. Talk about episodic memory...Me too (CT, in the courtyard, prolly Aug of '99). I sat down and meditate skill went up and I asked my group what that was all about. I didn't know you didn't need a book open after 35.

[shuklak]

Sol B, it was a Saturday, King Room.

lol

"The air was heavy that day... but soon I noticed a sort of a shift. As if the sky cleared up... I seemed to breathe deeper.

And my mind, it was quiet.

I reached a new level of consciousness at that brief instant in time."

[Weekapaug]

Absurd. The things you attribute in this post as "Classic EQ" are a mix of failed intent and hardware limitations.

I've heard of rose-colored glasses, but dude you're wearing full-on goggles.

You guys are just rationalizing around the issue. Item linking, the number of hotkeys available, night blindness changes, and every other little thing that came later had nothing to do with hardware limitations. Spell book medding had nothing to do with fucking hardware limitations. It's how classic EQ was designed for reasons known only to the original devs. I don't necessarily like all of those things, personally, but like it or not, that's how the original game was designed and what we had to play with. And, yes, those things all contributed to slowing the game down overall. Your interpretation of what was intended or not is meaningless. I'm talking about what was actually there versus what wasn't. Not what anyone thinks should have been there or not.

We got spell sets later, too. And in-game maps. And 12 hotkeys. And a "find" function. And custom chat channels. Or shared bank. Why can't we have all of that too? Hey, while we are at it, why do we have hybrid group exp penalties? They changed that later, too, right? Coin should be weightless and you should be able to die and respawn with your items, too, right? Hey, why don't we get mercs? They changed all of that later, didn't they?

You guys want to have it both ways and then say MY logic is flawed. Laff Out Loud.

Nobody is arguing that there wasn't stupid shit in the original game design. But that's not the issue. To jump up and down insisting that the Trillogy client is somehow inappropriate on a server that will never go beyond those expansions and where the stated goal is to recreate that era while simultaneously insisting that features that came with later clients are, is the very definition of absurd.

Something is either classic or it isn't. Period.

[kaev]

No, nightblindness for 3 of 12 races did not slow the game down. Players who wanted a faster game dumped their nightblind characters and were not slowed down at all. Players who started as one of the other 9 races because that's waht they wanted to do out of the box were not slowed down at all.

Some of the players slowed the game down. Others took down Nagafen & Vox within a few months of server up despite all of the limitations of the UI & mechanics. I still recall the GM's serverwide shout when Vox went down the first time on Tunare server (26 players from 5 guilds, imagine that nowadays, lol.)

Dunno what kind of nostalgia's filtering your view, but it's pretty skewed from how the game I started playing in July of '99 went down.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Night blindness - back in 99 every sane person upped their gamma, all the smart ones played a char with infra/ultra, like say insanely "casual" halfling with xp bonus on top of ridiculously good stats.

Classical "box screen" - before I discovered F10 mode, I always thought that tiny image with giant border on the side was a retarded waste of space. Once I discovered F10 - I never went back.

Item Linking - you got to be shitting me. If you don't like item linking, perhaps you want to buy my Celeron 300, with 16 MBs of ram and 32k modem thats sitting in my closet? I will sell it to you at 1999 price too, to keep it completely classic.

[Rhambuk]

like say insanely "casual" halfling with xp bonus on top of ridiculously good stats.

Humans are hardmode.

perhaps you want to buy my Celeron 300, with 16 MBs of ram and 32k modem thats sitting in my closet? I will sell it to you at 1999 price too, to keep it completely classic.

thats a good deal right there

[SCB]

Anyone who pretends that 1999-era games being hard because they were shitty somehow makes them equivalent to actual hard games is retarded. Nintendo Hard is not real Hard. Mega Man is not even remotely equatable to Dark Souls. Get the fuck over yourself.

I don't even care about the shitty "demands" of Classic that you're making - devs are on-record saying if they could change the client fundamentally they would, but they can't. The decision is made and they agree with you. That's a moot point. I don't care much either way. What I think is absurd is this pretentious attitude that "shitty" somehow equals "hard" or "better."

[Edame]

Anyone who pretends that 1999-era games being hard because they were shitty somehow makes them equivalent to actual hard games is retarded. Nintendo Hard is not real Hard. Mega Man is not even remotely equatable to Dark Souls. Get the fuck over yourself.

I don't even care about the shitty "demands" of Classic that you're making - devs are on-record saying if they could change the client fundamentally they would, but they can't. The decision is made and they agree with you. That's a moot point. I don't care much either way. What I think is absurd is this pretentious attitude that "shitty" somehow equals "hard" or "better."

Whoa.. Settle down lol

[SCB]

Whoa.. Settle down lol

Don't let my foul mouth make you think I'm upset. I often come across as an "11" when I'm at about a "2". I'm just foulmouthed when I'm feeling conversational. Usually I work hard to edit that stuff out (literally I edit posts either right before clicking "submit reply" or right after) and just didn't in here because fuck it.

[Clark]

Whoa.. Settle down lol

[Weekapaug]

No, nightblindness for 3 of 12 races did not slow the game down. Players who wanted a faster game dumped their nightblind characters and were not slowed down at all. Players who started as one of the other 9 races because that's waht they wanted to do out of the box were not slowed down at all.

Some of the players slowed the game down. Others took down Nagafen & Vox within a few months of server up despite all of the limitations of the UI & mechanics. I still recall the GM's serverwide shout when Vox went down the first time on Tunare server (26 players from 5 guilds, imagine that nowadays, lol.)

Dunno what kind of nostalgia's filtering your view, but it's pretty skewed from how the game I started playing in July of '99 went down.

And? I started in April 99 a couple of weeks after the game went live. Played with my best friend who was in the beta.

This isn't about nostalgia. It's about getting the server as close to classic as possible. Not just the parts you or I may or may not have liked.

They actually went to the trouble of reinstating the hybrid group exp penalties here on p99, arguably the stupidest design decision of original EQ....even the man himself Brad McQuade admitted later that it was one of the worst design choices they ever made....And it flabberghasted me at the time, just like you are in this discussion. Why break things that later got fixed, right? And the exp penalty is much worse for hybrids here than it ever was on live. But in the long view, it totally makes sense, if what they are doing is trying to create the most classic possible server here. And I respect that.

Point being, if they are going to actually break classes knowing full well that it was pretty much universally accepted that it was a bad idea to begin with, then everything is on the table. Make it as classic as absolutely possible, including no item linking and night blindness.

If you want a classic-ish server then go to another EMU. But things are either classic or they are not, regardless of what you or I have to say about it. You may not, but there are a lot of people who would love to play classic EQ again exactly as it was. Myself included. If that's a fucking problem for you, then that's your problem.

You have no argument when the entire point of the project is to be classic. Sorry.

[Weekapaug]

Anyone who pretends that 1999-era games being hard because they were shitty somehow makes them equivalent to actual hard games is retarded. Nintendo Hard is not real Hard. Mega Man is not even remotely equatable to Dark Souls. Get the fuck over yourself.

I don't even care about the shitty "demands" of Classic that you're making - devs are on-record saying if they could change the client fundamentally they would, but they can't. The decision is made and they agree with you. That's a moot point. I don't care much either way. What I think is absurd is this pretentious attitude that "shitty" somehow equals "hard" or "better."

"Shitty" is your opinion. I call it classic. Because that's how it was in actual, you know, classic EQ. Sorry that's such a problem for you.

You should check out The Sleeper server. No night blindness, item linking, and boxing. Or just go play wow. As I said before, if you don't like things about classic EQ, take it up with Brad McQuade. And while yer at it, ill give you a list of things I didn't care for too. Still won't change what's classic and what isn't though.

[khanable]

oh classic client, how I dream of thee