Enchanter/Shaman or Enchanter/Enchanter?

[turbodog]

If could only pick between Enchanter/Shaman or Enchanter/Enchanter (no alternatives), which would be more fun? Which would level faster?

Assuming you are in a zone and you don't die, Enchanter/Enchanter would obviously level faster with 2 pets to bash on everything.

Would Enchanter/Shaman be more efficient overall, though, because of SoW and healing, etc? Or would you not die on Enchanter/Enchanter anyway because of all the CC?

[SwordNboard]

Enc/shm

[Calibix]

Enc/Sham would be the safer route more rounded team, but two good enchanters would really tear shit up.

[adament1824]

currently me and my buddy are leveling enc/sham and it is a blast. We first started enc/nec and it was a super pain to level. Double enc is good but i guarantee you unless your super twink if your not outside sow'd you will die a lot just because of charm breaks and having no heals.

[A1551]

ench/ench is ridiculous and all..but i feel like you're both going to have more fun in the long run playing ench/shaman.

[SamwiseRed]

paladin paladin

[turbodog]

paladin paladin

Had a group of 6 paladins on a server you could box on... couldn't die, but you can imagine how boring it was.

Back on topic -- wouldn't you be able to absorb damage with Rune and by 1 hit one of the Enchanter should get a mez off? Obviously it's not going to work 100% of the time, but it seems like with Enchanter/Enchanter, you might not need the healing?

[Splorf22]

Just keep in mind that 95% of your "success" on this server will be based on a) your playtime, b) your knowledge of game mechanics, c) being nice to other people. Picking a "power" class is well down the list. Guys like Ploktor and Internode have been very successful despite playing Druid and Ranger respectively.

[heals4reals]

Heals and hp buffs derrrr

[Widan]

The first time you get a bad charm break and get down to 10% life and have to use troll illusion for +1 regen to regen back up over the next 20 minutes is gonna make you reroll a shaman as one of the classes.

[adament1824]

^^

exactly this, if you get even one bad charm break or resist rune is not that great it lasts a hit or two on mobs around your level. Not to mention if you try to put rune up while your fighting mobs they will agro on you very quickly without rooting first. Also rune is a huge mana sink. I can see enc/enc at high levels being fun but for leveling purposes and fun factor I would do enc/healer

[Aggrow]

I rolled an ench and my buddy rolled a druid. So far its great, not sure if shm ench is better or not but this combo is working great so far.

[Tecmos Deception]

The first time you get a bad charm break and get down to 10% life and have to use troll illusion for +1 regen to regen back up over the next 20 minutes is gonna make you reroll a shaman as one of the classes.

People who haven't "pushed the limits" with a chanter don't realize how well they can deal with a lack of heals and other support. I can't remember the last time I used troll on Tecmos (partly because the tiny extra regen isn't worth being big in a dungeon, and partly because bandages + potions + you rarely have bad enough luck that you lose bedlam and rune and 90% of your hp so by time you get unlucky a second time you're usually healed back up just from normal regen while medding and stuff).


Aggrow - druid/ench is solid, especially when there are animals so that the druid can be charming also. 1-59 any wis-caster and an enchanter make a SUPER combo; ench+necro, ench+ench would both be very powerful also, though trickier. At 60 dru/ench isn't as potent for grinding out mobs or for killing super difficult enemies because the druid's spells just aren't as effective as fort+symbol+CH or malo+slow+torpor, but that isn't going to stop you from doing 95% of the things ench/sham or ench/cle can do.

[turbodog]

People who haven't "pushed the limits" with a chanter don't realize how well they can deal with a lack of heals and other support. I can't remember the last time I used troll on Tecmos (partly because the tiny extra regen isn't worth being big in a dungeon, and partly because bandages + potions + you rarely have bad enough luck that you lose bedlam and rune and 90% of your hp so by time you get unlucky a second time you're usually healed back up just from normal regen while medding and stuff).

I did think it was weird that a ton of people say Enchanter is the best to solo with, but then think Enchanter/Enchanter duo is a bad idea. Isn't it just going from no heals (solo) -> no heals but faster experience (duo)?

I guess they might be saying Enchanter/Enchanter isn't bad, just that Enchanter/Shaman is better... but it seems like with 2 Enchanters for the extra CC, there would be even less healing time than soloing an Enchanter, which people were fine with.

[NGHpnotiq]

The thing is, utility, enchanter /enchanter. Doesn't bring anything new to the table, shaman or cleric brings a ton of utility to the duo. I think enc/sha is superior for leveling but at 60 cleric will let you do the hardest kills. End of the day its all personal preference.

[Widan]

People who haven't "pushed the limits" with a chanter don't realize how well they can deal with a lack of heals and other support. I can't remember the last time I used troll on Tecmos (partly because the tiny extra regen isn't worth being big in a dungeon, and partly because bandages + potions + you rarely have bad enough luck that you lose bedlam and rune and 90% of your hp so by time you get unlucky a second time you're usually healed back up just from normal regen while medding .

Charm doesn't last long at all before 24, and runes I-III won't be absorbing more than a round and a half, you will be sitting down to heal leveling an enchanter.

[melkortshea]

Myself and my wife are certainly not power players. We chose the Enchanter / Shaman duo simply so we would have SOW, Clarity and heals. It seems that we have stumbled upon an awesome combo as we have been really having a blast so far.

[turbodog]

The thing is, utility, enchanter /enchanter. Doesn't bring anything new to the table, shaman or cleric brings a ton of utility to the duo. I think enc/sha is superior for leveling but at 60 cleric will let you do the hardest kills. End of the day its all personal preference.

I think I agree that a Cleric might let you do more at 60, but do you think a Shaman helps you level up faster?

- Shaman gives you SoW (though travel time is minor part and you can probably get SoW most of the time)
- Shaman gives you more DPS on mobs than a Cleric
- I assume most of the downtime is on mana? I haven't done either yet so I don't know how much downtime is because of healer's mana or Enchanter's mana... if it were the healer's Mana, then canni would certainly help
- Cleric gives you rez to regain lost experience, but not sure if that would make up for potentially faster gains from Shaman?

Anything I am missing?

[NGHpnotiq]

Getting sow for travel is easy yes, but more importantly having sow while your charming is very handy. Sow gives you extra room to run and get off a spell without eating a hit. Which in turn will save you on down time.

[Tecmos Deception]

The thing is, utility, enchanter /enchanter. Doesn't bring anything new to the table, shaman or cleric brings a ton of utility to the duo. I think enc/sha is superior for leveling but at 60 cleric will let you do the hardest kills. End of the day its all personal preference.

This is definitely one of my pet peeves on p99. The "doesn't bring anything new to the table" argument only really applies when the first class needs synergy from a second class in order to shine. A warrior NEEDS a shaman for haste, slow, buffs, heals. A cleric NEEDS someone to kill things. Etc. An enchanter doesn't need anything. Heals and hp buffs are nice, of course, but they don't enable a chanter to do anything that he couldn't do without them; they're just a safety net. But a second chanter brings a different kind of safety net, doubling up on CC, which would generally be as effective as healing when you've got good players at the keyboard for each of the duos.

So then you're left with 3 duos, all of which are slow starters but powerhouses later on, each of which is played differently and each of which is very effective in the right hands... except the double enchanter duo does much more damage than the other two.

[Tecmos Deception]

Charm doesn't last long at all before 24, and runes I-III won't be absorbing more than a round and a half, you will be sitting down to heal leveling an enchanter.

I don't need to be told about basic enchanter mechanics! :p

But yeah, generally when I post I'm talking about the game at 60 (or at least at 50+) because that's where a lot of people are and where everyone is heading towards and because no one every posts and asks "Hey guys, which duo is better at levels 1-20?"

That aside, charm doesn't need to last long to be used effectively, playing to minimize a chanter's weaknesses at low levels means you aren't getting hit (much) such that you need runes or have to worry about waiting on hp regen even when your mana bar is full.

[Tecmos Deception]

If could only pick between Enchanter/Shaman or Enchanter/Enchanter (no alternatives), which would be more fun? Which would level faster?

Assuming you are in a zone and you don't die, Enchanter/Enchanter would obviously level faster with 2 pets to bash on everything.

Would Enchanter/Shaman be more efficient overall, though, because of SoW and healing, etc? Or would you not die on Enchanter/Enchanter anyway because of all the CC?

Ok, I'm trying to be on point. I think I'm just grumpy atm because minecraft is the background and my mob farm is broken because these fucking dispensers keep getting messed up.

Both fun. Ench+sham is more steady and stable of a combo, since you have only 1 pet who can turn on you at any given time (whose MR is double debuffed) and you get heals and the sham is pretty tough. At 60 things change dramatically if you want to take advantage of a shaman's torpor+canni+med ticks potential, but that's a long ways off. Ench+ench will be more "living on the edge." You'll kill more things faster, but you'll also be more likely to run into trouble if you aren't both always really on your toes and doing everything you can to be ready for nasty situations (like both pets breaking at once just as one of you botches a pull and gets adds). Even when you do everything right, ench+ench will sometimes get screwed by terrible luck with resists and/or charm durations... although even double charm breaks during a bad pull is something two enchanters could walk away from at high levels thanks to how awesome CC and chanter mana regen with theft of thought can be.

Overall they probably would level equally quickly. Sow is handy, but in the bottom of dungeons where enchanters can hang out to get the best xp bonuses and loot you can't usually cast it anyway. Heals are great, but proper play with two enchanters practically eliminates the need for them.

[turbodog]

Ok, I'm trying to be on point. I think I'm just grumpy atm because minecraft is the background and my mob farm is broken because these fucking dispensers keep getting messed up.

Both fun. Ench+sham is more steady and stable of a combo, since you have only 1 pet who can turn on you at any given time (whose MR is double debuffed) and you get heals and the sham is pretty tough. At 60 things change dramatically if you want to take advantage of a shaman's torpor+canni+med ticks potential, but that's a long ways off. Ench+ench will be more "living on the edge." You'll kill more things faster, but you'll also be more likely to run into trouble if you aren't both always really on your toes and doing everything you can to be ready for nasty situations (like both pets breaking at once just as one of you botches a pull and gets adds). Even when you do everything right, ench+ench will sometimes get screwed by terrible luck with resists and/or charm durations... although even double charm breaks during a bad pull is something two enchanters could walk away from at high levels thanks to how awesome CC and chanter mana regen with theft of thought can be.

Overall they probably would level equally quickly. Sow is handy, but in the bottom of dungeons where enchanters can hang out to get the best xp bonuses and loot you can't usually cast it anyway. Heals are great, but proper play with two enchanters practically eliminates the need for them.

Thanks for the advice, this was a big help. I was mostly worried that Shaman + Enchanter would be significantly slower... sounds like that's not the case. :)

Only problem now is my friend got to level 2 on his Enchanter and gave up and said it was too slow... so I guess I might solo anyway!

I hope you got your minecraft farm fixed!

[ncapatina]

Why shaman over a druid or cleric out of curiosity? I guess I could buy the SoW argument, but a druid can provide that, plus ports and better nuking.

Shaman might be more efficient DPS but it's also DoT based which prevents you from any mez/nuke type strats. Not to say druids don't use a lot of DoTs as well, but they are definitely more nuke friendly.

I went ench/cleric with my brother mostly because of being 2/3 of the holy trinity should we want to do some dungeons with a group. I'm low level now, but I think fighting undead will provide opportunity for me to contribute decent DPS if the situation calls for it.

Don't underestimate having rezzes either as a utility. I find it not all that difficult to find a friendly druid, shaman or ranger to toss me a SoW but good luck getting a cleric to come rez you.

[Chrysus]

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Heals are great, but proper play with two enchanters practically eliminates the need for them.

I understand what you mean, but it's just silly to think/suggest this way really, even more so for an long term exp'ing duo. You had a full self-CR setup outside HS during your 55+ time, so you know as well as any bad luck happens, and it is going to happen a lot during the 1-60 journey/grind so having a means to deal with it should always be a major consideration.

Back to the original question, I don't know why a duo would both play the same class, you'll have some huge holes in your game, but most of all, it just seems so much less interesting. Diversity in EQ is scarse enough as it is.

[Malone88]

Both fun. Ench+sham is more steady and stable of a combo, since you have only 1 pet who can turn on you at any given time (whose MR is double debuffed) and you get heals and the sham is pretty tough. At 60 things change dramatically if you want to take advantage of a shaman's torpor+canni+med ticks potential, but that's a long ways off. Ench+ench will be more "living on the edge." You'll kill more things faster, but you'll also be more likely to run into trouble if you aren't both always really on your toes and doing everything you can to be ready for nasty situations (like both pets breaking at once just as one of you botches a pull and gets adds). Even when you do everything right, ench+ench will sometimes get screwed by terrible luck with resists and/or charm durations... although even double charm breaks during a bad pull is something two enchanters could walk away from at high levels thanks to how awesome CC and chanter mana regen with theft of thought can be.
Well stated, Tecmos. Personally, I'm nervous duo'ing with a hasted pet without a healer backup, but maybe thats just me. The room for error, as you stated, is next to nil with two chanters. One of them gets beat down and you basically gotta sit and regen. I'd sacrifice a bit of DPS for that healer safety net...

[Millburn]

I didn't read any of this thread, but the answer is always Enchanter / Cleric.

[xassis]

If you had the two same people try Sham+Enc and Enc+Enc, and their skills are matched, I'd say Sham+Enc would be more efficient.

[phobus]

Why shaman over a druid or cleric out of curiosity? I guess I could buy the SoW argument, but a druid can provide that, plus ports and better nuking.

The malo* spell line is the big reason to go Shaman, I think. You can get by fine without it, but it's nice to have. As for SoW, meh. It's nice at low levels, sure, but by the mid levels you've probably got Jboots, and from then on you should be doing all your grinding in dungeons anyway.

Shaman might be more efficient DPS but it's also DoT based which prevents you from any mez/nuke type strats. Not to say druids don't use a lot of DoTs as well, but they are definitely more nuke friendly.

I rarely bother to cast any dots when I duo with an enchanter (or in most exp groups for that matter). I mean, sure I'll send my pet and maybe I'll click my epic if I didn't have anything more important to do, but it's not like I'm there to contribute DPS. That's not what an Enchanter needs in a duo partner, IMHO.

Actually, I just remembered the most important reason to duo with a Shaman - so you can be a shrunk Troll. Hell yeah!