"Purest" Everquest Start

[methosmtgo]

Hello fellow adventurers! I am posting here because I am looking into starting up a group or several groups of like minded people that want to experience Everquest's trials and tribulations.

The goal of this experience is to start off together and work our way up to the end of the game and enjoy our time as we ride the leveling wave. I really don't want any twinking or powerleveling, I'm looking forward to earning the gear on our own and not progressing until we've accomplished our goals for each of our members. Ideally I would like 5-8 people that are willing to take this journey with me, and also classes that would make a decent group. I really don't care what class I play I'm all up for SK/enchanter/wizard, those would be my preference but I can adjust for anything.

When it comes to scheduling I'm pretty limited during the week, I can commit to 2 hours a night at least probably from 8pm est till 10pm est or so. The weekends is where I would like to focus on dungeon crawling and getting more time in I'd say 7pm till midnight or 6 till 11..some kind of block of time in there.

What you need to do is either respond to this thread or send me a PM with what class/race you want to play and also what times you would be available, now be certain that we will not be progressing very fast given the limited amount of time and just how time consuming some things are in the game be prepared for the long haul but I believe we will all get the most out of the game like this and hopefully forge some friendships along the way. I also plan on streaming our experience and will give the information for that in the near future. Please pass this on to anyone that you think might be interested in such an adventure.

[Sgt1stClassPerkerwood]

You should start this whole thing off with a new guild name and keep this as your guild's vision! Could attract a lot of players looking to have fun progressing through various fights/camps together

[magetheory]

I'm down to play any class that is needed. I'm waiting on my Titanium disks to come in from amazon so I'll take whatever's left when I finally get everything installed

[Gadwen]

Guild is a good idea, I have...an alt of every class that is at least acceptably geared. But I would be happy to strip them and play with some people that were all starting "from scratch".

[Gadwen]

I'm down to play any class that is needed. I'm waiting on my Titanium disks to come in from amazon so I'll take whatever's left when I finally get everything installed

I really hope you didn't buy one of those insanely overpriced copies that people are selling. There's a guy who dresses like a pirate and lives down by the bay and he has extra copies that he will gladly let you borrow, I'm sure you could be up and running in no time with a little help from him.

[Alorae]

These kinds of things pop up every once and a while and it gets a lot of people reroll and have some fun without twinking. Good luck guys and enjoy it.

[thugcruncher]

I'm down to play any class that is needed. I'm waiting on my Titanium disks to come in from amazon so I'll take whatever's left when I finally get everything installed

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/out-of-here.gif

[methosmtgo]

So far we have a War+Cleric+SK, not sure when we are going to start probably in a few days when we can figure out starting races and what not and good timing for everything, so if people still want to join up let me know, and yes we will start a guild at some point to make our little "band" more noticeable.

[Fael]

good luck. however, nothing will ever be pure unless you do it on a new server from scratch. The economy changes to such a degree that you essentially cannot buy anything for market price and keep things pure. You essentially have to loot every item you get yourself, which of course isn't a pure experience.

I speak from experience.
But good luck.

Dolic

[methosmtgo]

good luck. however, nothing will ever be pure unless you do it on a new server from scratch. The economy changes to such a degree that you essentially cannot buy anything for market price and keep things pure. You essentially have to loot every item you get yourself, which of course isn't a pure experience.

I speak from experience.
But good luck.

Dolic

ergo the quotations in the title

[Tecmos Deception]

What are you talking about, Fael?

[myriverse]

Some of my earliest EQ memories were of twinking and powerleveling, so I haven't the foggiest idea what you're on about. Day one: my friend handed me a BBC and said, "Go kill stuff."

[Masq]

I think I could have a small group (2-4 players) willing to do this. When would you like to start?

[Halius]

I'd be up for this, I'll play any class that is needed. Only issue I see is that I won't be on every night, but I'd be more than willing to start another character and play with you all when you need someone.

[Hamahakki]

What are you talking about, Fael?

I think what Fael means is, medium-quality Kunark gear is so cheap on this server, that if you want a classic leveling curve, you need to not buy items. For example, if you start a newbie Paladin, you could get a Baton of Faith, which is superior to the best god/dragon gear in classic eq, for what... 200 platinum?

[SCB]

IMO you've got to go guild on this. We should start a serverwide alt guild dedicated to leveling up in various dungeons/zones.

[Dragonmist]

Maybe the un beaten paths zones that rarely ever see traffic instead of common zones with best exp mods,and trains galore...

[Abbot]

I'm in .. have not made my mind up on what to roll. Leaning toward rog, clr, or dru.

[planeofdreams]

I sent you a pm earlier today, I'm also down for a hardcore leveling experience.

[Medowin]

I would like to join the group! Although I've made a few prior attempts I've never actually made an EQ character past level 10. So any character I make will be starting 100% fresh with no money or twinking.

Willing to be any class. Preferably either a healer or Enchanter. Let me know! :)

[Renenn]

I'd like to join as well. Quick question tho, is "prekunark" as in I can't be an iksar? If so im cool rolling something else as well.

[SCB]

Maybe the un beaten paths zones that rarely ever see traffic instead of common zones with best exp mods,and trains galore...

My kingdom for a dalnir group.

[planeofdreams]

My classic Dalnir experience:

/ooc Hey guys anyone want to form a group and hunt in Dalnir? <-Me
/ooc Lol just get to 60 and go back and farm it.

Made me sad.

[SCB]

My classic Dalnir experience:

/ooc Hey guys anyone want to form a group and hunt in Dalnir? <-Me
/ooc Lol just get to 60 and go back and farm it.

Made me sad.

My classic experience:

Me (druid) and 5 monks trying like hell to crawl the dungeon. Me convincing my first person that /ex showed your exp, him quitting, and then him yelling at me and dropping group when he came back.

Good times.

[Dragonmist]

So when do you guys plan on creating a scratch toon and proceeding im ready as ever to get the first group rolling into some newbie nostalgia....

[webrunner5]

Been there done that. All sounds good on paper. Well for a Mage this is great. For your Warrior Tank with a Orc Pick well guess what. It won't last long. :(

[Tallenn]

I would totally be in for a guild based around this kind of idea. I just don't have enough time to play in a regularly meeting group, but love the idea of a guild with folks like that.

[Reedtheman]

a Few guild mates and I are additionally starting up project 1999 and progressing thru it slowly as we want to hit max level just before EQ Next beta comes around (years end).

Perhaps we will run into each other and be able to help one another at times. Currently we have a Paladin, Wizard and looks to be a Cleric or Druid (hasn't started yet). So far only lvl 2.

[Ryba]

Don't let that one guy roll a warrior unless he remembers what it means to level a classic warrior.

[Krankor]

I'm pretty much doing this already. Just started recently. Still getting a feel for what I want to play, so I might roll a 3rd character.

[Trebeh]

I am already doing this path. Started a Druid and am not buying anything but food for now. I will hunt for everything I will use and am a solo player. Or make it accordingly with tradeskills.
I find it more enjoyable to play this way. But to each there own.

[Malt's Wicked Ale]

I'll keep an eye on this thread. I'm new to the server and have an enchanter (or could make a new one) who'd be up for this.

Edit: Actually, after thinking about it, I think I'd like to roll a bard.

[Weekapaug]

I'd be down with joining this effort for a couple hours a day. I love starting fresh untwinked characters but it kind of takes away from the experience when everybody you play with is heavily twinked, which many are on the server. Which is fine, I do it too, but it's just cool seeing what you can get done with appropriately geared characters for the level.

You also might want to establish some clear rules and guidelines for what is acceptable and what is not. I, for example, am pretty good at getting low level toons from starting towns to other sides of the map. Might die a time or three along the way, but I'll make it. Can I get a bind from anyone or just guildies when I get there? Can we use EC at all? Just examples. Also, the word "classic" gets ambiguously thrown around here...Is this a progression type thing where only old world zones and gear can be used (or iksar) or is the whole world and items fair game?

Let us know what classes people are starting and we can try to fill in the gaps some.

[webrunner5]

I am already doing this path. Started a Druid and am not buying anything but food for now. I will hunt for everything I will use and am a solo player. Or make it accordingly with tradeskills.
I find it more enjoyable to play this way. But to each there own.

You are not doing anything wrong. :D You picked a great class to make it happen. Good Luck to you. :cool:

[Lyra]

I'm waiting on my Titanium disks to come in from amazon

. . .


This lovely server requires EQ:Titanium Edition (http://www.amazon.com/Everquest-Titanium-Pc/dp/B000CPSHFS). You should look around for it.

Unequivocally, This Online Remerged Rendition of Everquest, Necessitates The
Installation of Simply the
Best Edition, Specifically, Titanium

Yaaarr.... I live to dress as a PIRATE in order to keep the evil spirits at BAY. I also enjoy eatting ORGanic applesauce for lunch.

If you SEARCH FOR EVERQUEST TITANIUM long enough you will find it.

Playing classic Everquest
is
really
amazing, however
there is definately some setup involved.
eventually, though, you'll
be running
around antonica
yelling "That's my mob! Ihad the first
dot
on it! and
raging about killsteals and
ganking.


http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/05_02/pirateDM2505_468x456.jpg
http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/1267/hanauma_bay_800.jpg
http://www.webchick.org/images/dot.org.jpg
http://www.veryicon.com/icon/png/System/Vista%20Elements/Search%20Magnifier.png
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d2/EverQuest_Coverart.png
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/db/Titan-crystal_bar.JPG/240px-Titan-crystal_bar.JPG

[bmacclellan]

I just recently started so this would be great for me.

[Glasken]

. . .

This made me laugh for a good five min. Bravo.

[webrunner5]

Somehow I can picture Lyra in a dark room with about 5 computers going all at once, smoking on a Bong, eating about 4 boxes of snack food, cold pizza, a Mountain Dew spilled on the carpet, listing to Pink Floyd music on headphones. :eek: :cool:

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

great post Lyra. Sometimes I remember part of why I like this classic eq world is cuz some of you all are downright hilarious )

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

oh, and if you want pure old eq, you need an enchanter. holy trinity: warrior - cleric - enchanter.

[Lyra]

Somehow I can picture Lyra in a dark room with about 5 computers going all at once, smoking on a Bong, eating about 4 boxes of snack food, cold pizza, a Mountain Dew spilled on the carpet, listing to Pink Floyd music on headphones. :eek: :cool:

This is exactly what I wish I was!

Unfortunately, I have NO food right now. Of course my choice snack would be twinkies.

I haven't smoked pot for at least 10 years for fear of some freak accident at work that would require me to be drug tested. Before I had a good job that will pay me a pension AND has 401K match, I made a few bubbles in the bong.

Cola.... diet... rum

I will put some Pink Floyd in my headphones. Money - Just so you know I know what's up

[mtb tripper]

you should most definitley go to red and start this up

[aubie]

Check PM. I'm in if you still need folks.

[Zyn]

Can I join? I just moved to NY and getting internet set up in 2 days. I'd like to be an enchanter if at all possible. If not, I'll do whatever :)

[DarthKraze]

I wanna play! (A bard)

[methosmtgo]

I set up a guild website http://evermore1999.guildlaunch.com/ just to get things going and a little bit more organized for the people that want to join us in this adventure. I named it "evermore" but that def isn't necessarily the name of the guild when the time comes we will take a poll on that. Just sign up and send in your application and get your character in the roster, on the forums we have an introduction thread and also a thread on where we want to dungeon crawl next weekend.

Again the website address is

http://evermore1999.guildlaunch.com/

[Fael]

Tecmos, if you cant understand what i was talking about, then its not really worth elaborating further. I suspect you do, but your just being your normal self.

As for the OP: fair enough on the quotations, I see that you understand the challenge. I did this with some friends a year ago, and we had a great time. We were frustrated with having to loot pretty much everything and tried to make as best an effort we could with buying only items that were reasonable for that level range.

Like i said, good luck!

Dolic

[Tecmos Deception]

Tecmos, if you cant understand what i was talking about, then its not really worth elaborating further. I suspect you do, but your just being your normal self.

As for the OP: fair enough on the quotations, I see that you understand the challenge. I did this with some friends a year ago, and we had a great time. We were frustrated with having to loot pretty much everything and tried to make as best an effort we could with buying only items that were reasonable for that level range.

Like i said, good luck!

Dolic

Lol. I asked a simple question because I really was not sure what you were talking about.

The economy changes to such a degree that you essentially cannot buy anything for market price and keep things pure. You essentially have to loot every item you get yourself, which of course isn't a pure experience.

^ does not make any sense to me. I can't tell if it's a whine about the economy or a misunderstanding of what market price means or an oversight of the fact that you can buy stuff on the market and then delete excess PP that you arbitrarily feel isn't part of a "pure" experience, or what.

[Fael]

"oversight of the fact that you can buy stuff on the market and then delete excess PP that you arbitrarily feel isn't part of a "pure" experience"

Yes you can try do this to an extent. (what one arbitrarily feels is the value of something doesn't make FMV from 3 years ago).

Like I said, Good Luck. I tried it, it was fun for a while, but ended up a failure. The game was much much harder too, so it was def rewarding at the start.

Dolic

[Borador]

I like the idea. Although I wish I discovered p99 at the start (or we got a server reset ;)). But, this is the next best thing. Starting a few days ago I got a bard to 8. With a few nice people and the ec tunnels I basically can ignore many pre-kunark drops for the next 30-40 levels...

Some questions...

P99 blue server?

Basically just never buy/sell things with other players?

No-kunark till 50?

Grouping/soloing without the guild? Obviously with the goal to all stay close in level?

"Raiding"? I remember this big hype after everyone reached 50 and actually raided hate/fear. Some people wanted to level alts and literally raid places like Guk with a mass of under leveled toons. It sounds nice, but in practice its pretty dull. Is that the plan here? Or is it just leveling normally? Warriors are gear dependent sure, but time is typically best spent leveling instead of sending multiple level 10s to try and gear up a tank in crushbone. That shiny brass shield isn't going to make that big of a difference.

Really all i'm looking to experience is the gearing process like it was back in the day when +1 to a stat was amazing and the 1/3 damage ratio Ykeshas were the best out there.

[Zuranthium]

Some of my earliest EQ memories were of twinking and powerleveling, so I haven't the foggiest idea what you're on about. Day one: my friend handed me a BBC and said, "Go kill stuff."

So, you never played Classic Everquest.

----

Great to see people are still wanting to play Classic EQ. At this point a new server is needed, though, with modifications that actually allow the game to BE Classic EQ. The game will never again be Classic EQ if everyone already knows where the drops are, how all the quests go, all of the min/max specifics, etc. The entire playerbase needs to be figuring things out for themselves as they go along and actively participating in the game world, or else it's not a real RPG.

[LordSterben]

I will join a group if it goes true hardcore. You die, you reroll. Scary stuff...I'd be curious to see how long it could last lol

[Deli]

Hello guys. We started a while back but are going to get back into it with rerolls. Question for you: I don't remember how it used to be but my buddy is thinking Troll Shadowknight. Do people hesitate to invite that combo into groups because of the experience nerf these days? Is there a particular race/class combo that would get boo/hissed at?

Thanks,
Deli

[Mordrake]

This sounds like a lot of fun and brings forth a good amount of challenge. I would like to be apart of this. Please let us know when this will start up.

[Dragonmist]

http://evermore1999.guildlaunch.com/forums/index.php?gid=335618&sid=1108d58ff120146ae61f531f3e60ec9c&sso=1376422266

Guild name isnt decided yet think Methosmtgo is waiting a few more days to see how many more interests it gets.

[myriverse]

So, you never played Classic Everquest.
Started in September 1999. That's classic. Twinking is classic. Power-leveling is classic.

[Howler Monkey]

I've been away from the game a little bit, but this sounds like fun way to get back into it. I'll dig through the thread again shortly before we start to see what classes are needed, but I'm pretty open to whatever.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

I will join a group if it goes true hardcore. You die, you reroll. Scary stuff...I'd be curious to see how long it could last lol

that is just too harsh. but, it is a fascinating idea. Like, what about 3 deaths a month, after third death, you can't play that char OR ANY other char on that account till the start of next month?

Can't happen on p99. that would have to be an alternate ruleset server. Never thought of this possibility.

Damn, would that be a hardcore server or what? A death limit server. <shudders>

[Krankor]

that is just too harsh. but, it is a fascinating idea. Like, what about 3 deaths a month, after third death, you can't play that char OR ANY other char on that account till the start of next month?

Can't happen on p99. that would have to be an alternate ruleset server. Never thought of this possibility.

Damn, would that be a hardcore server or what? A death limit server. <shudders>

They had a server on live that was PvP and permadeath. It was probably the most fun I've ever had playing EverQuest.

[Jimjam]

Been there done that. All sounds good on paper. Well for a Mage this is great. For your Warrior Tank with a Orc Pick well guess what. It won't last long. :(

If you have a prefab group then warrior is one of the most rewarding classes levelling up without EC!

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

They had a server on live that was PvP and permadeath. It was probably the most fun I've ever had playing EverQuest.

the more i think of this kind of server, the more fun it seems. Imagine: an entire server where getting out of your teens is a pretty serious job.

see, it would be cool,because in classic, lvls 1-20 are very good levels in themselves.

It's just a fascinating idea. But I still think permadeath is too much. Maybe give each char 20 deaths total. And pvp? that's too much for my taste ;)

[spatrix87]

I would LOVE this as this is exactly what I am looking for! I love the progression feel of games, and having a toon in a group at level 1 with a Green Jade Broadsword is not something I enjoy, and when I say something about it I usually get laughed at or told that it's part of the game. It seems to me people forget that NEW people to P99 are joining daily and they don't want to be rushed to the end, I mean that is what I joined P99 for.... to get away from the modern MMORPG's gameplay style. I don't like ending up in "twinked" groups, especially as a tank early on.... if you aren't "twinked" your job cannot be done properly.

I want that REAL Everquest Classic feel! Send me a PM on site or get ahold of me on Sarnaxis, or Quapht in game (I'm on quite often) I would be happy to roll a new toon or hopefully I would have something in your range already. Currently have a 18 Warrior, who I probably wouldn't use for this. Or a fresh Erudite Wizzy I rolled last night.

[spatrix87]

good luck. however, nothing will ever be pure unless you do it on a new server from scratch. The economy changes to such a degree that you essentially cannot buy anything for market price and keep things pure. You essentially have to loot every item you get yourself, which of course isn't a pure experience.

I speak from experience.
But good luck.

Dolic

How the hell is "looting every item you get yourself" not a pure experience? To some of us the amount of platinum we have isn't everything, and we actually find joy in looting weapons that are tough to get with sharpened rusty weapons.

[Zuranthium]

Started in September 1999. That's classic. Twinking is classic. Power-leveling is classic.

These things were most certainly NOT prominent, or existent at all, on new servers during the first 8 months of Everquest. They were also game abuses which the company didn't have the manpower to fix at the time.

[t0lkien]

These things were most certainly NOT prominent, or existent at all, on new servers during the first 8 months of Everquest. They were also game abuses which the company didn't have the manpower to fix at the time.

Twinking and PLing were in no way game abuses. They were part of the core game and design style. You may not like them (though I don't think you've thought it through because without them this would not be an open world, open system MMO and everything would be instanced and level-limited and bind on equip). You actually can't have EQ as it is without the ability to do those things.

[Zuranthium]

They were not at all part of the "core game and design style". The devs went on record many times saying that's not what they intended and they specifically put in ways to try and hinder power leveling (and eventually twinking), when they had the time.

You can absolutely have an open World system without those two things. If a Level 50 Druid runs over and casts a Level 50 buff spell on a Level 10 player, the game could simply make it so the buff acts as Level 10 buff. There would be nothing wrong with that AT ALL. It can even make sense in terms of RPG realism that the lower level player wouldn't be able to "handle" the higher level buff to begin with. Also, buffs shouldn't be long-term, fire-and-forget anyway. That's poor combat design.

The same thing goes for equipment - nothing wrong with having level restrictions on them. It again also makes sense that a character can't handle certain equipment until they are experienced enough (this makes even MORE sense than a character not being able to "handle" a higher level magical buff). Are medical students able to perform open heart surgeries after just 2 years of med school? No, they aren't.

[t0lkien]

Also, buffs shouldn't be long-term, fire-and-forget anyway. That's poor combat design.

Not to get into an extended design discussion, but I couldn't disagree more. It's not poor design at all, it's just what you think you don't want. Having otherwise creates a lot of changes I don't think you realize - though maybe you do and that's the sort of game you want. Fair enough, but that's not EQ.

Higher level buffs not landing on lower level characters is in the game now anyway (there was and maybe still is an issue with Bard 51 Selos due to it).

The same thing goes for equipment - nothing wrong with having level restrictions on them. It again also makes sense that a character can't handle certain equipment until they are experienced enough (this makes even MORE sense than a character not being able to "handle" a higher level magical buff). Are medical students able to perform open heart surgeries after just 2 years of med school? No, they aren't.

Some are and have had to in remote areas, but nevertheless they can sure pick up the scalpel and work the forceps that achieve the operation. The skill of how well they do that is built into other areas of character design (skills etc.)

What you are advocating is what almost every other game does. You lose a lot more than you gain with these restrictions. Having to have them is sign of bad design IMO - or if not bad, cheap. There is always a better solution. Forcing those sorts of restrictions is a big red flag that your other systems haven't been elegantly designed and require such artificial, immersion breaking arbitrariness to patch up the holes.

Why can't a lower level pick up and use that sword, within the game world I mean? What is the explanation? That's a great mechanic for specific items (like the magic named swords in D&D that required a certain Wisdom or Intelligence score to wield and subdue the "will" of the sword) but as a general "that's just the way it is because we have to balance things", it's frankly a cheesy, cheap, nasty solution. I don't like, and never did, the No Drop element even in EQ. The same applies to it. It was a concession, though I understand the deep design issue it addresses.

Some of the absolute best things in games come from players finding the gaps between design elements that the designers didn't and could never have anticipated. Overdesigning, and over-balancing, and over-policing things to remove small exploit possibilities also removes those moments of magic - and they are the best things about games.

All this is why I and others love EQ, and still consider it unmatched in modern MMOs.

P.S. You're going to have to provide links for what you say the devs said. You may be right, but I don't remember it that way. If it was SOE post-Verant, well, I consider what they did to the game as pretty much sleazy money-grubbing cynicism anyway - and did at the time.

[Zuranthium]

Not to get into an extended design discussion, but I couldn't disagree more. It's not poor design at all, it's just what you think you don't want.

It's not what anyone wants. Nobody truly finds it rewarding to sit there and buff the group with a spell, full med, buff them with another couple spells, full med, a couple more buffs...and THEN starting fighting...and THEN start the buffing rounds again another 30 minutes later. If you ask anyone for a top 10 list of things that made Everquest exciting, memorial, and special...this process I just described would never be mentioned as one of them.

Look at Guild Wars 1 for how Healers in MMORPG's should be played. I'll let you use an account if you've never experienced it before. Actively "protting" (protecting) yourself and teammates with the most appropriate skill as the damage comes in, or a couple seconds BEFORE it comes in, is far and away a more active and skillful and enjoyable endeavor than applying rounds of buffs every 30 mins and casting Complete Heal every so often.

What you are advocating [with not being able to twink] is what almost every other game does. You lose a lot more than you gain with these restrictions.

You don't lose anything and you GAIN far more community interaction and long-term stability in your game. No twinking means lower level characters always need to progress at a relatively normal rate and with a group. This means new players coming to the game will constantly have people to play with, since older players can't just RUSH the leveling of their alts. It also means the newer players are LEARNING, since the older players are forced to actually put effort in on their alts and therefore are interacting with the newer players. Plus the older players will receive much more fulfillment in the end.

None of this would even be a question if game content was much more dynamic, rather than being static. That's obviously what the developers would have wanted from the beginning, but there was absolutely no way at the time to make it happen. They would have had to hire a ridiculous amount of programmers and/or GM's to make it a reality.

Why can't a lower level pick up and use that sword, within the game world I mean? What is the explanation? That's a great mechanic for specific items (like the magic named swords in D&D that required a certain Wisdom or Intelligence score to wield and subdue the "will" of the sword") but as a general "that's just the way it is because we have to balance things", it's frankly a cheesy, cheap, nasty solution. I don't like, and never did, the No Drop element even in EQ.

Oh, a lower level player could certainly be allowed EQUIP higher-level items, but the stats would simply change to automatically be level-appropriate when they equipped it.

However, you just gave the reason for why many (most) higher level items shouldn't even be equippable by lower level players, IN THE RPG sense -- higher level items are almost always magical. Therefore, it makes perfect sense that a magical item would refuse to work for someone who isn't worthy of it. ("The Sword in the Stone", HELLO?!?!?)

There's also a practical gaming reason for this -- because equipment is a status symbol. It's a visual representation that MEANS something and creates an added level of visceral competition. This is incredibly important for keeping some players interested in a game after they've reached "the max level". If a certain item does the exact same thing as another item, but is far more rare and/or has a much better look, players WILL go out of their way and spend a lot of time to obtain those rarer and more aesthetically appealing items.

[t0lkien]

What you want is a different game. These are the things that I and others like about EQ - no kidding, we like them. You (say you) don't, but if you dislike them so much, why are you here? There must be something you like. If you changed these things, you'd simultaneously remove the very things that make this game what it is. If not, you'd be somewhere else - there are literally scores of games that do what you are saying you want. If the result of those changes is so good, why aren't you there?

I beta-ed GW2 and played it from release for a few weeks, and then just couldn't be bothered playing it longer. I have very little to say about that game that you would like. I disagree with almost every single thing they did design-wise. I didn't like the art direction at all either, though it was a beautifully executed piece of work in that regard.

P.S. re. twinking, other games have locked it out by design and then implemented an entirely new system that then allowed it (e.g. heirlooms). If that isn't the ultimate irony and absurdity, I don't know what is.

[Zuranthium]

What you want is a different game.

Wrong. What I want is what Classic EQ was. But you never even experienced actual Classic EQ since you didn't start the game until after Kunark released.

I beta-ed GW2 and played it from release for a few weeks, and then just couldn't be bothered playing it longer. I have very little to say about that game that you would like.

Why are you talking about Guild Wars 2?

I specifically said Guild Wars 1.

They are completely different games. The brand name and certain lore are the only things they really share.

[Jimjam]

like EQ and EQ Next?

[t0lkien]

Oh sorry, yes I misread. GW1 was ok, but not really an open world MMO in the same way EQ is. I played it a while, but was never interested by it.

Classic EQ is up to and including Velious, and it allowed twinking and most items were not level restricted (via No Drop). These freedoms are core aspects of the EQ system, and affect so many other things than just the things you don't like. There was twinking and PLing during vanilla and Kunark anyway! I don't see how you can separate them.

I had to level up in Faydwer same as everyone else, since I started as HE. That was old world, and old school. It took me weeks to earn just 1pp, I remember it very well. I was twinked in my late teens with some Lambent Armor and nice mid-range weapons though, and I was sincerely thankful at the time as live was a brutal game at low level. I remember thinking how awesome it was that you could do that, and it greatly added to my enjoyment of the game.

BTW, with this:

It's not what anyone wants. Nobody truly finds it rewarding to sit there and buff the group with a spell, full med, buff them with another couple spells, full med, a couple more buffs...and THEN starting fighting...and THEN start the buffing rounds again another 30 minutes later. If you ask anyone for a top 10 list of things that made Everquest exciting, memorial, and special...this process I just described would never be mentioned as one of them.

... you have pointed out the very reason that this dynamic creates the game that is EQ. People would choose otherwise if they could (though many enjoy that process you just described; it's what I call "slow burn" gameplay and has a pace and reward that modern games have lost), and so they find things that mitigate it e.g. flowing thought items and buffs. Those things then become incredibly important and desirable within the game as a result, which feeds directly into class abilities. You remove the first "difficult" part and you lose and undermine the value of the second, and the depth and breadth of gameplay it generates. This is why I say you think you don't want this stuff, but you want the things it gives. You can't have it both ways - and the mess of games that have changed it and lost the deep feedback loop that EQ (and other great games) has prove that.

But anyway, we aren't going to agree. Peace out, and I'm just glad p99 is as faithful to Classic as it is, for all these reasons - continual complaints about all this stuff notwithstanding.

[Zuranthium]

Oh sorry, yes I misread. GW1 was ok, but not really an open world MMO in the same way EQ is. I played it a while, but was never interested by it.

What GW1 has is the best combat system ever for an MMORPG (although you need to PvP to understand it and see how it can apply elsewhere). Pairing that with the concepts of Classic Everquest and properly tuning it all = best game ever.

I had to level up in Faydwer same as everyone else, since I started as HE. That was old world, and old school. It took me weeks to earn just 1pp, I remember it very well. I was twinked in my late teens with some Lambent Armor and nice mid-range weapons though, and I was sincerely thankful at the time as live was a brutal game at low level. I remember thinking how awesome it was that you could do that, and it greatly added to my enjoyment of the game.

In other words, you needed level-appropriate equipment to fully enjoy the game and Classic Everquest wasn't TUNED well enough, because it didn't properly allow melee classes to earn level-appropriate equipment at the lower and mid levels.

Nobody truly finds it rewarding to sit there and buff the group with a spell, full med, buff them with another couple spells, full med, a couple more buffs...and THEN starting fighting...and THEN start the buffing rounds again another 30 minutes later. If you ask anyone for a top 10 list of things that made Everquest exciting, memorial, and special...this process I just described would never be mentioned as one of them....you have pointed out the very reason that this dynamic creates the game that is EQ. People would choose otherwise if they could (though many enjoy that process you just described; it's what I call "slow burn" gameplay and has a pace and reward that modern games have lost), and so they find things that mitigate it e.g. flowing thought items and buffs. Those things then become incredibly important and desirable within the game as a result, which feeds directly into class abilities. You remove the first "difficult" part and you lose and undermine the value of the second, and the depth and breadth of gameplay it generates.

Slow burn gameplay does not require buffing at all, nor is buffing needed to have excellent class distinction.

Do you really understand breadth of gameplay when you completely advocating twinking, which destroys tradeskills (unless you allow tradeskills to create equipment equally as good as what the best drops in the game are)?

Do you really understand depth of gameplay when you believe the Classic Everquest combat model of "fire and forget" buffs, melee classes just sitting there hitting autoattack and pressing Kick on recharge, and healers doing nothing more than "make red bars go up" with static skills, is the epitome of MMORPG combat?