When does Canni become more effcient then a Manastone (Hp/Mana ratio wise)

[VincentVolaju]

So Ive been messing around on a 33 Shaman with a Manastone, he only has Canni 1 right now. After watching hp/mana when using it, it looks like it takes 50hp and only gives 7mana, however on the wiki it says it is supposed to give 20mana. When using the Manastone it gives 20mana for 60hp.

Obviously at this point 60-20 is much more efficient then 50-7. Im assuming as you go up in level, your Canni starts to give more Mana, maybe? If thats the case, at what level / which canni spell, will become a more efficient hp/mana ratio, then the Manastone at 60/20?

[gotrocks]

Canni always more efficient. See my explanation in this thread for why canni looks so screwy:

http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=7932&page=2

[Aaron]

Cannibalize I (LVL 24): consume 50 hp, gain 19-30 Mana (conversion ratio is 1.66 to 2.63 hp:mana)
Cannibalize II (LVL 38): consume 67 hp, gain 30-42 Mana (conversion ratio is 1.60 to 2.23 hp:mana)
Cannibalize III (LVL 54): consume 100 hp, gain 39-47 Mana (conversion ratio is 2.13 to 2.56 hp:mana)
Cannibalize IV (LVL 58): consume 148 hp, gain 81-82 Mana (conversion ratio is 1.80 to 1.83 hp:mana)

[newsmurf]

use manastone until u get canni2

[enr4ged]

Here you go this will help you visualize and compare the differences between the Canni spells.

http://i.imgur.com/pLMSPEb.png

[Tasslehofp99]

So which canni spell is the most efficient? That graph is confusing me.

[Adolphus]

Canni 2

[Tasslehofp99]

Canni 2



That is what I thought looking at the graph, but what is the point of having "upgraded" canni spells if they are less efficient? I guess ill have to quest canni 2 for my sham.

[Adolphus]

That is what I thought looking at the graph, but what is the point of having "upgraded" canni spells if they are less efficient? I guess ill have to quest canni 2 for my sham.

Something I've been asking myself for a long, long time. ;)

[fastboy21]

Selling canni 2 currently...pm if interested

[Kiwaukee]

That is what I thought looking at the graph, but what is the point of having "upgraded" canni spells if they are less efficient? I guess ill have to quest canni 2 for my sham.

Time to full mana is the difference. Cann2 is a little more efficient, but Cann4 is much better for slamming out a bar as quickly as possible. Also, efficiency becomes less useful when you have more regen than the hp you're eating or when someone else is healing you.

Cann2 returns 36 mana at level 60, with a 1.25 second cast time and 2.25 second recast. With a max of 2000 mana (for math's sake), it takes 56 casts to go from 0 to full. 56 casts takes 196 seconds.

Cann4 returns 82 mana at level 60, with a 2.5 second cast time and 3 second recast. With the same mana pool, it takes 25 casts to get from 0 to full. 25 casts takes 137.5 seconds.

[Tasslehofp99]

Time to full mana is the difference. Cann2 is a little more efficient, but Cann4 is much better for slamming out a bar as quickly as possible. Also, efficiency becomes less useful when you have more regen than the hp you're eating or when someone else is healing you.

Cann2 returns 36 mana at level 60, with a 1.25 second cast time and 2.25 second recast. With a max of 2000 mana (for math's sake), it takes 56 casts to go from 0 to full. 56 casts takes 196 seconds.

Cann4 returns 82 mana at level 60, with a 2.5 second cast time and 3 second recast. With the same mana pool, it takes 25 casts to get from 0 to full. 25 casts takes 137.5 seconds.


That makes sense described that way, thanks for taking the time to type that out

[Cid]

There is a second tick on p99 that really messes with canni of any kind. I was told it was done originally to stop people exploiting an aggro issue, but it is set slightly off of 6 seconds so it cycles its position throughout the original 6 second tick.

If you cast Canni thinking the fake tick is the real one, you wind up standing at the moment you would have gotten your normal sitting hp/mana amount. You basically have to open your inventory and watch your mana move up the proper amount. It really, really, really sucks, but once you get used to it, it becomes more managable.
Later on you can just watch your hp and know when to cast, you'll see it jump up 2-4% then down as the fake tick disperses.

I have a 54 shaman on Blue and a 60 shaman on Red, I've hated the problem but you just learn to live with it.

[fastboy21]

i would suggest using a ui that shows your inventory mana as the default.

[phobus]

Cannibalize I (LVL 24): consume 50 hp, gain 19-30 Mana (conversion ratio is 1.66 to 2.63 hp:mana)
Cannibalize II (LVL 38): consume 67 hp, gain 30-42 Mana (conversion ratio is 1.60 to 2.23 hp:mana)
Cannibalize III (LVL 54): consume 100 hp, gain 39-47 Mana (conversion ratio is 2.13 to 2.56 hp:mana)
Cannibalize IV (LVL 58): consume 148 hp, gain 81-82 Mana (conversion ratio is 1.80 to 1.83 hp:mana)

FYI, this is way off for Cannibalize II, at least. At 59, it returns 32 mana while Cannibalize III returns 47.

[Bantam 1]

Super twinked druid was telling me canni is better than a manastone. I've never super twinked before in EQ so I've taken his word for it since.

[timhutton]

Time to full mana is the difference. Cann2 is a little more efficient, but Cann4 is much better for slamming out a bar as quickly as possible. Also, efficiency becomes less useful when you have more regen than the hp you're eating or when someone else is healing you.

Cann2 returns 36 mana at level 60, with a 1.25 second cast time and 2.25 second recast. With a max of 2000 mana (for math's sake), it takes 56 casts to go from 0 to full. 56 casts takes 196 seconds.

Cann4 returns 82 mana at level 60, with a 2.5 second cast time and 3 second recast. With the same mana pool, it takes 25 casts to get from 0 to full. 25 casts takes 137.5 seconds.

This. If you used the time you save by using cann4 over cann2 to just regen HP(to make up for the poorer ratio) you probably come out ahead just doing that.

[Danth]

That is what I thought looking at the graph, but what is the point of having "upgraded" canni spells if they are less efficient? I guess ill have to quest canni 2 for my sham.

As Kiwaukee described, Shamans (particularly at 60 with Torpor) often find that their major limiting factor is time rather than hit points. It's a very busy class. The higher ranks of Canni might be somewhat less efficient on a per-hit point basis but allow the user to convert significantly more hit points per unit of time, hence gaining mana more rapidly overall.

Note that Canni4 is a Velious spell and hence isn't currently available.

Danth

[fastboy21]

efficiency < > utility

(at least not in all circumstances.)

[mtb tripper]

bunko

[Visual]

As Kiwaukee described, Shamans (particularly at 60 with Torpor) often find that their major limiting factor is time rather than hit points.

Can tell you 1st hand ms+torp is the life. oom to fm in like a 90 seconds.

[VincentVolaju]

Can tell you 1st hand ms+torp is the life. oom to fm in like a 90 seconds.


Thats good to hear =). Guessing another benefit of it might be that you can do it in combat mid fight, throw a torp on then spam stone likes 20times in 3 seconds or something, yeah?