Servers input regarding clearing npc for MQ

[Acrux Bcrux]

I remember on live when people would go to mq items they would put say 1 peice of water in all 4 slots of the npc and turn that in before doing an mq to "clear" the npc so the mq would go smooth. I havent heard of anyone talk about that here, hell i dont even know if it really worked for sure. Anyone else heard of this before? Maybe we can save some people from losing their stuff now that MQ is not backed by the gms so to say.

Input?

[Ele]

I've never heard of this.

[Bantam 1]

I did it back in the day... the reasoning was what if someone else messed up their mq.

[Acrux Bcrux]

Okay so atleast someone heard of this and im not just delusional lol. Trying to dig up some info on the web about this as we speak. Would be cool if we could get more people with info regarding this. Possibly gms can confirm or deny if this actually works also?

[Spitty]

People here are wise enough to the mechanics of MQing that the water trick is probably unnecessary. It likely works, but there's a much lesser chance that you'll MQ with someone who stands around going "SHOULD I TURN MY FANG IN NOW? LIKE RIGHT NOW?" for five minutes after you've put your piece in.

[nilbog]

Okay so atleast someone heard of this and im not just delusional lol. Trying to dig up some info on the web about this as we speak. Would be cool if we could get more people with info regarding this. Possibly gms can confirm or deny if this actually works also?

No it would not.

[Acrux Bcrux]

ty nil, just thought of it and always heard it on live, but never heard a word of it here. Ty for the clarification. <3 you Nilly :kissyface:

[spoils]

this is why we need "simulated" patch reset days...this would clear NPCs incase someone anonymously trolls servers by loading up NPC's with wrong stuff...jus sayin....not sure if it's possible...but simulated patch days where whole world resets would fix a lot of the raid scene and MQs

[nilbog]

this is why we need "simulated" patch reset days...

This is still being discussed amongst the developers. I fully support it.. I don't know of anyone on staff that doesn't. The issue lies in developmental time to implement and best methods.

I just want to reiterate that it is high on my agenda.

[August]

This is still being discussed amongst the developers. I fully support it.. I don't know of anyone on staff that doesn't. The issue lies in developmental time to implement and best methods.

I just want to reiterate that it is high on my agenda.

Taking applications for developers? If that is your limiting reagent...

[Estu]

This is still being discussed amongst the developers. I fully support it.. I don't know of anyone on staff that doesn't. The issue lies in developmental time to implement and best methods.

I just want to reiterate that it is high on my agenda.

<3 <3 <3

[nilbog]

Taking applications for developers? If that is your limiting reagent...

Always interested in hearing from potential developers.. but it's not an easy job. I believe Rogean would want to personally deal with this particular implementation because it heavily involves the raid scene.

For people interested in development, talk to me in IRC. As a quick note: C++/mysql/perl.

[getsome]

killing the quest npc will clear it.

[Splorf22]

The issue lies in developmental time to implement and best methods.

Why isn't it a one-liner? Something like

if(patch-day-random-check)
GMCommand(initiate-reboot, 5 minutes)

or something like that? Or does the server not have some kind of watchdog?

[nilbog]

Why isn't it a one-liner? Something like

if(patch-day-random-check)
GMCommand(initiate-reboot, 5 minutes)

or something like that? Or does the server not have some kind of watchdog?

Well, for one.. a server reboot doesn't clear respawn timers. We do that manually after a patch. Assuming that is part of the function, there are still other considerations.

Do you reset the whole server? Is there a need? Wouldn't it be just as beneficial to not disconnect everyone.. yet have the npcs repop?

If this is in addition to the normal respawns per week, a simple repop wouldn't achieve the same goal. Many 3 or 7 day npcs would still only pop once that week.

On a per-npc basis, how about the mechanical specifics? Nagafen dies.. that's a Ragefire spawn? Interfering with existing? .. etc.

Not a one-liner to achieve desired results.

[Stinkum]

Why isn't it a one-liner? Something like

if(patch-day-random-check)
GMCommand(initiate-reboot, 5 minutes)

or something like that? Or does the server not have some kind of watchdog?

Well, for one.. a server reboot doesn't clear respawn timers. We do that manually after a patch. Assuming that is part of the function, there are still other considerations.

Do you reset the whole server? Is there a need? Wouldn't it be just as beneficial to not disconnect everyone.. yet have the npcs repop?

If this is in addition to the normal respawns per week, a simple repop wouldn't achieve the same goal. Many 3 or 7 day npcs would still only pop once that week.

On a per-npc basis, how about the mechanical specifics? Nagafen dies.. that's a Ragefire spawn? Interfering with existing? .. etc.

Not a one-liner to achieve desired results.

You just got schooled by Nilbog, son.

[Spitty]

Why isn't it a one-liner? Something like

if(patch-day-random-check)
GMCommand(initiate-reboot, 5 minutes)

or something like that? Or does the server not have some kind of watchdog?

Not likely. The case for a classic patch day schedule would probably look something like:

1. Define a simulated lifecycle by evaluating the timetable of updates (and associated downtime) that resulted in a server-down scenario in classic EQ. You would want to pay attention to updates that don't follow an update pattern and the frequency of skipped updates and adjust your lifecycle accordingly. Example: updates every three weeks +/- three days, plus six updates a year that fall out of cycle, minus four updates that are in cycle but don't occur. Generate downtime randomly between, say, 30 minutes and 360 minutes. Manually override an undefined number of updates a year to fall outside of the window of downtime.

2. Evaluate the percentage of updates that resulted in a full repop of value targets, and apply that to the defined cycle.

3. Construct a table of value targets that would require attention given a patch day - raid mobs, quest mobs and the like. This would be worth doing anyway (especially for Velious), and could benefit from crowd-sourced input.

4. Develop a method of spawn timer reset for such a table that would result in a majority of user acceptance given the variance inherent to the raid scene on P99. For example, if a mob has a variance of +/- 72 hours for spawn time N, any -N value would result in the spawn being available when the server comes up and any +N value would result in the spawn being delayed according to that value.

5. Identify any exceptions to the above variance; i.e. a high-value target that is always available when server uptime begins. Example: Trakanon is +/-X hours during server uptime, but is always available when the server comes up after a simulated patch day.

6. Identify any exceptions to the high-value target table where a game mechanic is affected by a simulated patch - i.e. mobs that require game input to spawn - and either remove those from the update table or independently develop code that restores continuity to the environment given a simulated patch. Examples: Ragefire, Avatar of War.


Benefits: "classic" patch day environment and scheduled downtime that would allow for actual patches and modifications to be implemented without negative feedback from the player base

Detriments: hard commitment for the administration to manually oversee each simulated patch instance, whether or not an update actually takes place, potential for exploitation of simulated patch days if the root timetable is leaked or otherwise discovered through independent evaluation of update frequency/characteristics

[Spitty]

TLDR: 50+ hours of environment evaluation and coding pre-implementation, plus time each cycle to monitor the conditions of the environment post-patch (i.e. ensuring mobs actually spawn appropriately, and service time that will inherently be required to address raid scene issues due entirely to the fact that a host of raid spawns will suddenly be available or will be due upon server reset)

[Splorf22]

Well, for one.. a server reboot doesn't clear respawn timers. We do that manually after a patch. Assuming that is part of the function, there are still other considerations.

Do you reset the whole server? Is there a need? Wouldn't it be just as beneficial to not disconnect everyone.. yet have the npcs repop?

If this is in addition to the normal respawns per week, a simple repop wouldn't achieve the same goal. Many 3 or 7 day npcs would still only pop once that week.

On a per-npc basis, how about the mechanical specifics? Nagafen dies.. that's a Ragefire spawn? Interfering with existing? .. etc.

Not a one-liner to achieve desired results.

I mean I'm sure you can do something better than what I said if you put more time into it, but considering that it's been almost a year since the original repop thread maybe it's time for something quick and dirty.

[Ephi]

maybe it's time for something quick and dirty.

As a developer myself... those are some famous last words right there.

FWIW: nilbog and crew don't do anything unless its done right.

[Reapin]

MQ should be eliminated. Problem solved.

[Splorf22]

As a developer myself... those are some famous last words right there.

FWIW: nilbog and crew don't do anything unless its done right.

I'm a huge fan of doing things the right way, but repops are so important and have been delayed so long (something like 10 months now? And no end in sight) that maybe they deserve a little special love.

[Lyra]

Do you reset the whole server?

Does it take a full reset to reset the vendors?. Vendor shopping was one of my favorite things on live. It's not as fun here because the vendors don't get reset often enough.

[spoils]

This is still being discussed amongst the developers. I fully support it.. I don't know of anyone on staff that doesn't. The issue lies in developmental time to implement and best methods.

I just want to reiterate that it is high on my agenda.

thanks nilly! i wasn't trying to pressure anything...was just reminding the community that simulated patch days also served its purpose especially when velious came out to clear out armor MQ's. But i will mention that GMs would reimburse for fubar'ed MQ's especially for velious armors...

it's happened to me before...I can understand not supporting it for something like jboots and cheap stuff...but when HoT BPs were getting eaten cause of botched MQ's...many panties were soiled, so GMs helped out in that regard

[fastboy21]

GMs back in the day had a lot of discretion...they would sometimes reimburse failed MQ stuff, even though it was not supported by the CSR officially.

It often took many days of waiting for a petition to be answered by someone who you then had to hope was willing to help you. Usually, you just took your losses and moved on.

MQ'ing is very risky. Between EQ bugs and scammers people were much more reluctant to roll the dice on live then they are here.

[Lyra]

because it heavily involves the raid scene

I've been thinking about this since I read it. Did SOE care about the raid scene when they reset the servers?

[Nuggie]

resetting vendors makes it hard to find spiderling silks / random pages / other stuff that lower level players don't take time to sell to other higher level players.

[August]

As a developer myself... those are some famous last words right there.

FWIW: nilbog and crew don't do anything unless its done right.

This has been the downfall of many, many features in my time as a developer. Sometimes the quick fix is the best fix. There's always next release cycle.

I'll hit you up in IRC once I'm off work.

[sabinrf24]

This has been the downfall of many, many features in my time as a developer. Sometimes the quick fix is the best fix. There's always next release cycle.

I'll hit you up in IRC once I'm off work.

Sure does smell like Agile in here.

[Vega]

Do you reset the whole server? Is there a need? Wouldn't it be just as beneficial to not disconnect everyone.. yet have the npcs repop?

Please consider disconnecting everyone and bringing server down for a random 1 to 3 hours. Was classic fun not to know when they would be back up, and would end up just clicking at login.

If this is in addition to the normal respawns per week, a simple repop wouldn't achieve the same goal. Many 3 or 7 day npcs would still only pop once that week.

Also consider removing variance, and just putting in patch variance with repops. Could do 2 week avg with +/- a week. The overall number of pops isn't the thing everyone is clamoring for, it's a chance to race for mobs on semi-equal footing.