Your dream expansion set

[frefaln]

I like P99 the way it is and I'm perfectly content w/ its scope of expansions. But just for fun I'd be curious how others define their "dream" expansion set — hey, some people out there actually like Depths of Darkhollow! A couple rules: 1) try to keep it short 'n sweet, 2) let's try to avoid long tangents about individual expansions, and 3) don't present your config as something the P99 Devs should consider or implement. This is all just for giggles.

My answer: original, Kunark, Velious, LDoN, and PoP (without PoK or clicky-books).

[Overcast]

LDoN - if the gear was 'scaled' properly, would be a good fit, yeah.

I didn't ply much of DoD, I was kinda burnt on EQLive by then. I did for a bit, but not long.

[Harmonicdeth]

RoK, SoV, PoP, and SoL the only ones I played...I could live with out SoL honestly, was a lag fest for my old PC.

PoP I loved because PoI and PoD were 2 of my fav zones.

[Phallax]

3 month time locked progression is what ive always wanted...I really hate the way live is today, liked everything up through OoW so I guess Id like to see a time locked progression to OoW

[Overcast]

RoK, SoV, PoP, and SoL the only ones I played...I could live with out SoL honestly, was a lag fest for my old PC.

PoP I loved because PoI and PoD were 2 of my fav zones.

You know, PoP would have been a lot cooler if instead of a bunch of portals stones to the planes, if the zone-ins would have been in the back of other zones..

Like the entrance to PoD could have been in the back of Fear, the entrance to PoJ maybe in the back of Permafrost, entrance to PoTime in the back of Plane of Mischief, or whatever - just do away with PoK altogether and put the Plane of Tranquility around Odus somewhere, or whatever..

[frefaln]

You know, PoP would have been a lot cooler if instead of a bunch of portals stones to the planes, if the zone-ins would have been in the back of other zones.

That's kinda brilliant and would've been sweet. The entry to PoI (one of my favorites) could've been in gnome territory. Perhaps an entry to PoD in Innothule, and the list goes on. They could've been really creative in associating old-school zones with PoP content.

[Straif]

Classic, Kunark, Velious, Luclin...

Luclin did have it's problems but during that period I still felt EQ had a magical feeling to it. I was excited to log in, I could sit and do nothing and have an amazing time. Exploring was exhilarating. That and I'm a big fan of Frank Frazetta and Luclin reminded me of his other worldly paintings.

When PoP came out, I really got into hardcore raiding. Then the magical feeling disappeared. :(

[Overcast]

Classic, Kunark, Velious, Luclin...

Luclin did have it's problems but during that period I still felt EQ had a magical feeling to it. I was excited to log in, I could sit and do nothing and have an amazing time. Exploring was exhilarating. That and I'm a big fan of Frank Frazetta and Luclin reminded me of his other worldly paintings.

When PoP came out, I really got into hardcore raiding. Then the magical feeling disappeared. :(

Same here, and GoD really took the 'steam' out of it for me.

But you know - legend of yakesha wouldn't be a bad addition either. Of course, gear would need scaling I assume.

[Harmonicdeth]

When PoP came out, I really got into hardcore raiding. Then the magical feeling disappeared. :(

I found that hardcore raiding for me destroys all the magic behind a game.

It did that to me in EQ2, it almost turns into a mundane job.

[Sigleaf]

I think the majority of people loved PoP for what it did to the raiding game. Unlike Kunark/Velious, it will take a lot longer then a few weeks for people to reach the end tier content of that expansion so I would def add it to increase the longevity of the game. I would like you guys suggest however take out the PoK books and instead do what the above poster mentioned about either making PoT accessible from an old school zone, or having the upper planes attached to other zones.

I would also and still do dearly love SoL. I would remove the Bazaar, and still keep trading in the EC tunnel, but I simply loved the variety and lore of the zones it added. AA's while controversial were not too overpowered in the beginning and added some variety to characters. By the time SoL would be released on this server, the majority of people should be 60 anyways so it really wouldn't matter loosing people due to playtimes.

Just my thoughts. I know we all love Velious/Kunark, they are by far my two favorite expansions, however other expansions did do some stuff right as well!

[Overcast]

That's kinda brilliant and would've been sweet. The entry to PoI (one of my favorites) could've been in gnome territory. Perhaps an entry to PoD in Innothule, and the list goes on. They could've been really creative in associating old-school zones with PoP content.

Yeah, then - even keying would have made more sense.

[Phallax]

I found that hardcore raiding for me destroys all the magic behind a game.

It did that to me in EQ2, it almost turns into a mundane job.

Raiding is a job, thats why those that put in the most work get the most loot...mostly.

[Harmonicdeth]

Oh I agree with you there...

I have very well geared toons on EQ2...

But now I am at the point where I do not want to raid much anymore, too much pressure for doing this and that.... just not my tea anymore.

To each their own.

I also feel that the release of AA's helped though, because it allowed people to customize their toons more, but eventually all toons became cookie cutter... Though I really did love Endless Quiver for my ranger.

I agree Bazaar killed the market as far as making people haggle. That is one of my fav aspects to Classic EQ.

[Phallax]

I also feel that the release of AA's helped though, because it allowed people to customize their toons more, but eventually all toons became cookie cutter... Though I really did love Endless Quiver for my ranger.


AA's gave people another reason to play rather than max out level, then farm or make a new toon and max out level. It gave you something to shoot for as a raider or non-raider.

[Nedala]

Classic-Kunark-Velious-Luclin(without Bazaar, withou nexus portals and without weird aliens)-PoP (just for the raid content without PoK books). Thats how i would love it:)

[Overcast]

Classic-Kunark-Velious-Luclin(without Bazaar, withou nexus portals and without weird aliens)-PoP (just for the raid content without PoK books). Thats how i would love it:)

And LDoN would be a perfect counter balance for PoP gear for more casuals.

Move the zone ins to odd places for the planes - like out of the way.. big time. Places people just don't normally go often.

Like - deep in Droga (I think - that place in FM) - deep in SkyShrine, Qeynos Sewers, Kerra Island.. bust the population up to different areas. You'd see people hanging in various cities then.

Then pick one of the more frequented zones - make the key quest giver a mob in Chardok - so you need faction. *Rawrr!!!*
That would pick up the 'difficulty level', lol.

But you have a good idea - get those Aliens out of Luclin - now the mobs in Maiden's Eye - the robes and such - they were cool.


Funny - SO MUCH could have been done right with Classic EQ if they would have stuck with the concepts in EQClassic/Kunark/Velious.

[frefaln]

Luclin might've made it in my OP list if it'd been trimmed down to roughly half the zones, i.e. without Bazaar and Paludal (which felt like a "required stop" to soar through ten levels). It was the Luclin expansion that started the trend where the newest expansion tramples on its predecessors, making some zones feel empty and depressing.

It made me realize that expanding outward in virtual space isn't necessarily a good thing; IMO it's more important to have meaningful, dynamic, and atmospheric content that people experience together. Lots of big zones don't really mean anything if /who returns 1 result.

[frefaln]

And LDoN would be a perfect counter balance for PoP gear for more casuals.

...

Like - deep in Droga (I think - that place in FM) - deep in SkyShrine, Qeynos Sewers, Kerra Island.. bust the population up to different areas. You'd see people hanging in various cities then.

I kinda wish you'd been one of the original Devs, we're on the same wavelength. You're exactly right, LDoN and PoP could've been presented as two different methods toward the same goal. If you like the adrenalin and teamwork of raids, go PoP. If you like to grind it out and don't mind investing a lot more time (fragmented over "casual" sessions), go LDoN. Nobody's wrong and everybody wins.

As for people hanging out in cities, I'm glad you think that's important too. The original cities were designed so freakin' well, each with their own distinct personality and racial influences. It kills me that Live left them decay into ghost towns.

[Overcast]

I kinda wish you'd been one of the original Devs, we're on the same wavelength. You're exactly right, LDoN and PoP could've been presented as two different methods toward the same goal. If you like the adrenalin and teamwork of raids, go PoP. If you like to grind it out and don't mind investing a lot more time (fragmented over "casual" sessions), go LDoN. Nobody's wrong and everybody wins.

As for people hanging out in cities, I'm glad you think that's important too. The original cities were designed so freakin' well, each with their own distinct personality and racial influences. It kills me that Live left them decay into ghost towns.

Yeah, me too. I don't like 'gimmie' games where everything's too easy. No sense of accomplishment when you get there. The other thing I liked about it - was different sets of 'viable' gear instead of 'well you need the Armor of the Cookie-Cutter - like everyone else to do the raid for the Armor of the Pie-Cutter for the new raids'...

When 'everyone else' has it too - it's not a big deal. That's what was so cool about EQ - not everyone had a manastone or a fungi. The time sinks were such that you had to pick and choose what you wanted and likely - well, you weren't going to get everything.

I agree with the above too - Luclin *could* have been cool. Other than the aliens, it was fitting ok. But of course, it was too 'odd' on a Team PvP server having that 'common zone'.

So maybe... scale down Shadowhaven to a 'offbeat' city - yank out all the trasdeskill people and such - less reason to be there, remove the bazaar or perhaps just the ability to trade with 'bots' there - the arena in there was kinda cool - just make the zone open PvP, lol.

I guess the nexus + portals is an ok way to get there.

PC could stay - just rip out the XP bonus in that place - that or make the mobs hit twice as hard practically *requiring* a group.

That and move PC a zone away from Shadowhaven or two. XP bonus is fine I guess, if it's hard to get to. It was too easy to get too + too big of an XP bonus - that's why it became pretty much the defacto zone for 14-25ish.

[Reiker]

Don't just shoehorn LDON in because "it had casual content" because that expansion was horrible. It was like EQ meets Diablo II. And what made it worse was that everyone was required to spend 10 hours a day running the same 20 minute, boring as fuck dungeon to get necessary spells/augs.

It was actually the casual players who suffered, because the rewards were designed around hardcore raiders who could clear Hards with maximum efficiency receiving their shiny new aggro aug in a week. Whereas it'd take your average joe barely being able to clear Normals in the time limit a month to get the same reward.

Only LoY (the worst EverQuest expansion of all time) was a worse idea.

[frefaln]

I respectfully disagree, Reiker. First, it wasn't "the same instance" every time, each LDoN flavor had several different instances. Second, while they were admittedly repetitive, name any aspect of early EQ that wasn't? Was LDoN any more repetitive than sitting at a camp waiting for respawns? And lastly, LDoN got a lot more people to get on board with dungeon-crawling as opposed to sitting around in Overthere zone lines because it was safe.

I personally witnessed a lot of players mature and become bolder thanks to LDoN, and they made less excuses for avoiding groups in the depths of existing dungeon zones as a result of it. But I digress, I'm breaking my own OP rule of avoiding expansion-specific rants.

[Excision Rottun]

Velious with Valdeholm and Ashengate tacked on as additonal raid zones behind Kael / ToV

PoP with Solteris in it after Temple of Sol Ro.

[Harmonicdeth]

Only LoY (the worst EverQuest expansion of all time) was a worse idea.

But it brought us Dyes!!!!!!

[Reiker]

I respectfully disagree, Reiker. First, it wasn't "the same instance" every time, each LDoN flavor had several different instances. Second, while they were admittedly repetitive, name any aspect of early EQ that wasn't? Was LDoN any more repetitive than sitting at a camp waiting for respawns? And lastly, LDoN got a lot more people to get on board with dungeon-crawling as opposed to sitting around in Overthere zone lines because it was safe.

I personally witnessed a lot of players mature and become bolder thanks to LDoN, and they made less excuses for avoiding groups in the depths of existing dungeon zones as a result of it. But I digress, I'm breaking my own OP rule of avoiding expansion-specific rants.

Dude, compare any old world dungeon with its LDON counterpart. Upper and Lower Guk had a unique style and were well designed. I'm sure you can remember tons of awesome locations in those dungeons, but what stands out about Deepest Guk?

LDON began the dungeon design that basically every MMO has unfortunately emulated since: hallway, room, hallway, room, hallway that splits into two rooms, etc. And to make the poor design even more painfully obvious, each "main" LDON dungeon had 4 or so "subset" dungeons that were nothing more but hallways and rooms arranged in a different order. The entire expansion felt like it was thrown together on some dude's lunch break. There's no place for randomly generated dungeons in a static fantasy world. And LDONs felt like randomly generated dungeons, except they didn't have the technology so the mobs were placed randomly. But in the end, it didn't matter if one dungeon was two hallways into a big room and another was hallway into small room into small hallway into big room, the expansion was shit.

But it brought us Dyes!!!!!!

And this is what makes LOY the worst expansion ever. Not particularly for dyes, but if you had some deep disdain for Velious, you could play the game without ever having to interact with it. Not LoY however, it forced bright pink troll warriors into your group, and took away armor recognition from the game. An important aspect of EQ was "wow, that guy is in full dark blue armor, he's a powerful warrior with a full set of Cobalt." This is coming from someone who mained a shaman and made a assload of plat from dyes. LoY is the only expansion where every single idea was fucking stupid. Frogs, charms, dyes, maps, trolls losing Grobb, low end versions of powerful milestone spells (ie. Stoicism). The entire thing was an abortion. And don't get me started on the actual zones, they were so bad no one ever used them except to get Pure Blood or whatever spell they needed so they could get back to Planes of Power.

Edit: Okay, the entire expansion wasn't horrible; LoY was the first expansion offered as a digital download and digital downloads are cool! Saving a 15 minute trip to Gamestop: the only good thing about LoY.

[frefaln]

Welp, sorry you feel that way but it doesn't change the fact that I had a lot of fun with LDoN. Yep, even as someone who loved PoP raiding and also agrees with you that old-world dungeons were very well designed.

[fuji]

Original, Kunark and Velious. If it goes past that I am out.

[Reiker]

Welp, sorry you feel that way but it doesn't change the fact that I had a lot of fun with LDoN. Yep, even as someone who loved PoP raiding and also agrees with you that old-world dungeons were very well designed.

A lot of it, in my mind, comes down to casual vs. raider mentality. Raiding warriors were like "omg, I can add another hate proc to my weapon, I'll do whatever it takes to get it even if it means getting stabbed in the dick!" or in my case, "oh nice a new magic-based dot I can add to my rotation while soloing PoFire tables." And then raiders began the grueling task of begging their guildmates everyday to spend the next 8 hours running the same hallway-room-hallway (I won't even dignify the zones by calling them dungeons) so they could get 5% closer to that shiny new aug (a precedent that still continues to this very day, see: BiC or any other "must-have" aug).

While casuals just didn't give a fuck, it was new content in EverQuest and hence it was fun. Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against not giving a fuck. I actually prefer not giving a fuck. I don't give a fuck often and recommend others to follow my way of not giving a fuck. But if the dungeons were actually well designed and well tuned (difficulty, time investment, and rewards) the casual player would have enjoyed the expansion that many times more.

[Reiker]

Also, some may think I'm being overly hard on LDON, but consider that all the best rewards were from Miragul, the whitest fucking dungeon known to gaming. I had a raging headache every time I stepped foot in that dungeon, which is just yet another unpleasant memory to add to LDON.

Seriously, fuck Miragul with its HP and Proc augs. I hated tha-http://everquest.allakhazam.com/scenery/mirc-spiderden.jpg

[melkortshea]

For me I just want Kunark and Velious.

I did like Luclin but part of the problem with such exapnsions is that they offer a much larger playing field. This caused the community to scatter or at the very least other parts of the world obsolete.

I think Kunark and Velious will bring the world to a large enough size that the game will not seem so empty and yet probide many things to do for adventure.

[Mountaineer]

PoP was the best! Sure it was the start of "easy mode" with PoK. But it's raiding was Un-Matched!
There was SOO much different content that a guild of any level could almost always have something to do. Be it raiding and trying to get flagged for Time, killing mini bosses in PoFire, trying to get flagged for Sol Ro Temple/BoT, etc etc....

They had some extremely hard/time-consuming raids also (Rathe council, Xegony, not to mention Corinav wasn't all that easy until you got the hang of it, hell, even Bertoxxulous). Sure they were extremely hard or lengthy, but thats what made em fun. Personally I'd rather spend 12 hours working on a raid, than 24 hours camping in a zone waiting for something to spawn lol.

[frefaln]

Yeah, I loved the teamwork required for much of PoP. Manaetic Behemoth in PoI was one of my favorite encounters. If even one spider group screwed up the domino effect was underway and it'd all unravel in a hurry.

[Reiker]

Too bad not even Randle McMurphy could screw up Manaetic Behemoth though.

[frefaln]

Heh, did you do any pick-up raids there? I saw PoI collapse a few times when a group couldn't manage the spiders and it wasn't pretty.

[Excision Rottun]

see: BiC

Fuck that thing.

[melkortshea]

I was so glad to hear that Velious and Kunark are pretty much the only expansion goals for this server.

I am curious to hear what expansions the Devs liked and disliked. Seeing as they spend so much time striping layers away from the game to get it as close to classic as they can it would be cool to know what parts they enjoyed taking away the most and what parts they enjoyed putting back into the game.

I for one was really happy when boats went online.

[Lucrio40]

Give me RoK, SoV, PoP and I'm good.

GoD can come if we take out every fucking mob running at Selo's speed, blue cons hitting harder than Quarm, and the zones are actually able to be navigated by someone besides a SoS rogue. Also rename the zones and mobs to things people can actually remember and spell, four apostrophes scattered about with 18 X's, 4 Q's, 6 T's, and a V is nothing that anyone is going to remember the name of. It also goes without saying that the encounters should be tuned properly so people can actually beat them.

OoW can be tacked on if we're doing changes. All the GoD changes apply here as well. Make getting Anguish flagged not need any of those stupid side instances that no one ever did except for Anguish flags, make it like PoP in that raid progression requires you to actually raid. Those Muramite raid trials seem like a good idea for requirements. Give the OMM storyline a more "the end" feel.

Oh, and fuck Augs. Get those things out of here.

Didn't play anything after DoDH so something good might of been added, but this would be perfect for me.

[Fryhole]

For me, the 50-60 grind was harsh, and I never finished it. (couldn't get consistent groups as a druid) I'd say Luclin killed the game for me overall, just because I was so behind and I just didn't like the content. *shrug*
I wouldn't have minded seeing some of the planes though.

[olderj]

I liked seeing more regions of Norrath appearing in the later expansions. I didn't really like the content... but it was cool finally seeing the developers concentrate on Antonica, Odus, and Fayder for once. I remember first playing EQ and looking at the hand-drawn map and being like... "damn why can't we go there?!?!"

I also wanted to know where all the damn bixies were coming from... it was nice to actually be able to see stonehive.

*shrug*

~Huffle

[Aeolwind]

Fuck that thing.

I had every part of that damn thing in my bags EXCEPT the Event in Qinimi and the VERY last piece from Tunat. =(

Honestly though, the BIC was what made me love the Discord expansion. One of the best, most well conceived and laid out quests in EQ imo.

[Lyrica]

That's it :)

[Arclanz]

Luclin might've made it in my OP list if it'd been trimmed down to roughly half the zones, i.e. without Bazaar and Paludal (which felt like a "required stop" to soar through ten levels). It was the Luclin expansion that started the trend where the newest expansion tramples on its predecessors, making some zones feel empty and depressing.

It made me realize that expanding outward in virtual space isn't necessarily a good thing; IMO it's more important to have meaningful, dynamic, and atmospheric content that people experience together. Lots of big zones don't really mean anything if /who returns 1 result.

Totally agree. Making these huge expansions was problmatic. Just like the new Freeport sux, so too do expansions that emphasize size over quality. FP is MUCH more interesting in its current smaller form; where the content does not dwarf the number of players in that content.

I thought Luclin was ooc upon launch, but I really grew to like it with it's unique zones. I rarely visited the dark side of the moon; and it frankly scared the crap outta me. I'd love to spend a lot more time in Luclin. Spent a lot of time in Kunark and Velious, even though I did very few raids in those zones.

[Merrik]

Just give me Howling Stones, Velks Lab, Karnor's and Sebilis and I'm gtg for about 3 years. (yeah I know, kunark and velious). I really enjoyed PoN and some of the other Planes in PoP though. PoN is probably one of my favorite zones ever, but then again the highest toon I ever had was 63, so I didn't see a lot of things.

[Overcast]

Don't just shoehorn LDON in because "it had casual content" because that expansion was horrible. It was like EQ meets Diablo II. And what made it worse was that everyone was required to spend 10 hours a day running the same 20 minute, boring as fuck dungeon to get necessary spells/augs.

It was actually the casual players who suffered, because the rewards were designed around hardcore raiders who could clear Hards with maximum efficiency receiving their shiny new aggro aug in a week. Whereas it'd take your average joe barely being able to clear Normals in the time limit a month to get the same reward.

Only LoY (the worst EverQuest expansion of all time) was a worse idea.

Actually, I can't disagree about a lot that LoY brought in.

But.. what I liked about it - was simple... The zones. Unlike many other expansions they were releasing, it was just straight up non-instanced zones.

LDoN would have been a lot cooler if the add dungeons were more like guk and such - I do agree.

[Excision Rottun]

I had every part of that damn thing in my bags EXCEPT the Event in Qinimi and the VERY last piece from Tunat. =(

Honestly though, the BIC was what made me love the Discord expansion. One of the best, most well conceived and laid out quests in EQ imo.

Agreed.

However, I originally quit when GoD launched.

Only to return during TSS, TBS, SoF expansions.

This meant I was basically trying to solo any part I could or drag 5-10 people out with flags to do the raids.

Would have been much more enjoyable when it was current since you would have parts dropping during guild events.

[Eyry]

Kunark, Velious, Lucilin without Nexus or bazaar (Beastlord FTW) and Pop with no Porting hub

[Reiker]

But.. what I liked about it - was simple... The zones. Unlike many other expansions they were releasing, it was just straight up non-instanced zones.

There were 0 instanced zones when LoY was released...

[Kelven]

Classic -> Velious + Bazzar and PoP

Velious will always be my favorite expansion, I loved the dragon lore and the sleeper. The raids, the loosening of the stranglehold certain guilds had on every raid mob in the previous expansions. It opened the game up for me.

I hated every single tiny detail about Luclin *except* for the bazzar. I liked the ease of buying/selling without sitting in EC for hours and hours spamming a macro auction. Granted some people like that , but what a huge waste of time .. oh and F**K Vex Thal, and your key quest.

PoP was another ground breaking raiding expansion, and the last one I enjoyed. After killing the gods of EQ, the game should have been over, or Veeshan should have come down and blown everything to kingdom come... something like that. EQ was exit stage left after that expansion.

[nicemace]

i'd like all of them, i dont care about lore or anything like that. i just want cool raid content like rallos, anguish, vish, mayong etc... sure beats wow raiding.

[mixxit]

the lore in the buried sea has been underrated

[Humwawa]

Like the entrance to PoD could have been in the back of Fear, the entrance to PoJ maybe in the back of Permafrost, entrance to PoTime in the back of Plane of Mischief, or whatever - just do away with PoK altogether and put the Plane of Tranquility around Odus somewhere, or whatever..

The Plane of Fear is the realm of Cazic Thule, who while evil, isn't exactly an ally of Bertoxxulous. Their worlds wouldn't be linked. It would have been cool if the planar gates were parts of the natural world instead of some stupid nexus plane. Have the gate to the Plane of Decay portal somewhere near the Karanas, where the Bloodsabres - and Bertoxxulous - hold the most influence.

If the Lore was followed properly, and you had quests to "invoke" the portals - possibly even to seal them afterwards, considering you'd unleash some horrible things on Norrath if you opened a two-way gate to the Plaguebringer's home without the proper wards and locks - it would be a fantastic idea.

[Arclanz]

the lore in the buried sea has been underrated

I've grown to really like TBS too! Much more so than DoN. I know TBS has instances but it feels much less instancy than DoN did. And the TBS zones are quite majestic.

Humwawa you from Brell? Arreeeee? ring a bell. Man you and Tseng have names that match players I knew in 1999.

[guineapig]

the lore in the buried sea has been underrated

Looks like I will be reading up on this lore soon! ;)

[guineapig]

The Plane of Fear is the realm of Cazic Thule, who while evil, isn't exactly an ally of Bertoxxulous. Their worlds wouldn't be linked. It would have been cool if the planar gates were parts of the natural world instead of some stupid nexus plane. Have the gate to the Plane of Decay portal somewhere near the Karanas, where the Bloodsabres - and Bertoxxulous - hold the most influence.

If the Lore was followed properly, and you had quests to "invoke" the portals - possibly even to seal them afterwards, considering you'd unleash some horrible things on Norrath if you opened a two-way gate to the Plaguebringer's home without the proper wards and locks - it would be a fantastic idea.

Bertox has many worshipers in A'kanon and Qeynos so the Qeynos sewers or some place under A'kanon would make sense for the Plane of Disease.

If not there then maybe some Kunark zone. Kunark just feels right for it... if you aren't following where the worshipers are.