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Zuranthium
08-21-2013, 07:46 PM
So I was thinking about how to make Everquest more immersive, intricate, and difficult. The game is quite easy and stagnant these days now that the majority of the playerbase knows so much about it and you can look most anything up on wiki if you don't know. I'm keeping my ideas limited to things that should be relatively easy to implement; nothing that changes the core mechanics and nothing that changes items/zones/classes in the game too much.

Part of these ideas are based around the game having World PvP, although the modifications would work for a total PvE server too.

RACE LIMITATIONS:

My first idea was to limit races so that each race can only pick 3 classes, with the additional limitations that every race can only share ONE class in common with each other, each class must be used a minimum of 2 times across all races, and each class can only be used a maximum of 4 times across all races. There would be a total of 16 classes and 15 races.

Since there will also be race and alignment limitations, the way I selected these classes for each race was done in such a way that each race can feasibly play with only their own race and still have a workable team for a lot of game content, and also so that each alignment will be missing out on some key abilities from missing classes.

Barbarian: Berserker, Rogue, Shaman

Dark Elf: Necromancer, Enchanter, Cleric

Dwarf: Warrior, Berserker, Paladin

Erudite: Enchanter, Magician, Wizard

Froglok: Warrior, Wizard, Cleric

Gnome: Rogue, Necromancer, Magician

Half-Elf: Paladin, Rogue, Bard

Halfling: Warrior, Rogue, Druid

High Elf: Paladin, Magician, Cleric

Human: Monk, Ranger, Cleric

Iksar: Monk, Necromancer, Shaman

Kerran: Beastlord, Bard, Shaman

Ogre: Shadowknight, Berserker, Beastlord

Troll: Warrior, Shadowknight, Shaman

Wood Elf: Ranger, Bard, Druid

CLASS CHANGES:

Classes would be balanced with the Velious hybrid improvements in place (with the additional change that Shadowknights would not receive pets, which are nearly useless anyway, but would have slightly improved life tapping abilities). Other changes:

Clerics would be slighty nerfed, with Complete Heal becoming less overpowered (but don't, worry, they'll still be a necessary class and some of their other heals will also be improved). Shaman would be slightly nerfed - I would take away their pets, but I would also improve the cannibalize spells so that the effect happens for 3 ticks in a row. Needing to use cannibalize less frequently means the Shaman has more time to spend on other abilities and it streamlines the class much better, by making it so the ridiculously annoying and repetitive "canni-dance" doesn't need to be done every freaking 6 seconds to maximize their power. Enchanters would be very slightly nerfed, by making their slow spells cap out 5% lower at the higher levels...Enchanters are obviously plenty powerful enough already and this gives Shaman more distinction as being the masters of attack speed debuffs. Druids would be buffed, by giving them the pets that Shaman formerly had and also significantly increasing their direct healing capability at higher levels (I would remove AE damage spells from Druids, however, to give Wizards more class distinction).

Wizards would be moderately buffed by improving Harvest - drop the cast time to 1 second, remove the self-stun effect, and make it so this ability causes your next damage spell (if one is used in the next 20 seconds) to always hit for the normal maximum damage and potentially do 50% more maximum damage (depending on resist). When using Harvest, the skill will be disabled for other all Wizards in your party for 1 minute and it will also cause Harvest to be disabled for all other Wizards in the area of your target when the damage spell is cast...this is a buffer to stop gathered Wizards from being too powerful. Magicians would be buffed in terms of their ability to solo (as compared to how it is in strict classic) - summoned pets will automatically be equipped with the equipment in a summoned bag in your inventory that you will be able to 'tag' for this purpose, and Magician pets will also only take 25% of the Magician's exp from the kill if the Magician doesn't outdamage the pet, in comparison to the normal 50% for all other pet classes.

Warriors would be slightly buffed by reworking the taunt skill and making it better for that class than any other class. Beastlords would be as they were in Luclin era in terms of their abilities, with the exception that their pet and pet buffs would take much longer to cast. This would make it so re-summoning a pet in battle wouldn't be a viable option for the Beastlord, thereby reducing their power level in some situations and further differentiating the class from Magicians. Berserkers would essentially be the melee version of Wizards. Their tanking ability would be on the level of Rangers and their DPS when not going berserk would be the same as a Warrior, but when they are able to go berserk mode they would be putting out more damage than any other melee. In terms of long-term DPS they would be behind Rogues, but still quite competitive. Necromancers would get a better epic because the "duck staff" is a disgrace.

RACE AFFINITY:

In order to be in a group, there MUST be at least one other player who is your same race in that group. This means that any given group can only have a maximum of 3 races in it.

ALIGNMENT AFFINITY:

Every race in the game will be either Good, Neutral, or Evil. You will only be able to group with the races in your alignment. Certain areas of the game will be attuned to Good, Neutral, or Evil. When in an attuned area, the members of that alignment can not be attacked by other players. In areas with no attunement, players may attack other players who are in a different alignment. There will also be a few areas in the game where no PvP can happen at all - the dock in Erudin (will be accessible via a direct underwater tunnel from Toxxulia Forrest), South Qeynos, the above-ground areas of East Freeport, the dock in Oasis, and the docks in Butcherblock Mountains.

GOOD - Dwarf, Froglok, High Elf, Kerran, Wood Elf (this alignment lacks 5 classes - Shadowknights, Monks, Rogues, Necromancers, and Enchanters)

NEUTRAL - Barbarian, Erudite, Halfling, Half-Elf, Human (this alignment lacks 3 classes - Beastlords, Shadowknights, and Necromancers)

EVIL - Dark Elf, Gnome, Iksar, Ogre, Troll (this alignment lacks 5 classes - Paladins, Rangers, Bards, Wizards, and Druids)

Overview of the "GOOD" Alignment:

Their attuned areas in the game are Kerra Island (note - I would include more zones and useful areas on the continent of Odus as a whole), the temple of Rodcet Knife in Qeynos, the temple of Marr in Freeport, Innothule Swamp (because the Frogloks own it now!), Gukta (formerly known as Grobb), Kaladim, Butcherblock Mountains, Greater Faydark, Felwithe, and the outpost area in Firiona Vie.

This alignment has more defensive options than any other, good mobility, and very strong control over a couple key dungeons in the game (Kedge Keep and Guk). Unfortunately this alignment also has no characters who are able to feign death, no characters who can summon corpses, no Rogues, and no Enchanters.

Overview of the "NUETRAL" Alignment:

Their attuned areas in the game are Erudin, Halas, Everfrost, Surefall Glade, Northern Qeynos (aside from the temple of Rodcet Knife), Highpass Keep, Misty Thicket, Rivervale, the above-ground areas of West Freeport, North Freeport (aside from the temple of Marr), and the "Lost Valley" area of Dreadlands (only neutral-aligned Druids and Wizards would even be able to obtain the teleport spells to here).

This alignment has more classes available to them than any other, a more centralized community than any other alignments, and the best potential mobility. Unfortunately, this alignment only has very strong control over one key dungeon in the game (Permafrost; also a note - Splitpaw would be a "key dungeon" in this setup of the game).

Overview of the "EVIL" Alignment:

Their attuned areas in the game are Paineel, Qeynos Catacombs, Ogguk, the Feerrott, the Temple of Cazic-Thule, Nektulos Forest, Neriak, Steamfont Mountains, Akanon, the outpost in The Overthere, and Cabalis (although, remember, everyone except Iksar are still naturally KOS here and Iksar are naturally KOS everywhere else in the game).

This alignment has very strong control over more key dungeons than any other alignment and their spread attuned locations gives them great potential for cross-zone domination. Unfortunately this alignment has no characters who are able to track, they have less defensive options than any other alignment, and they have absolutely abysmal mobility. With no Druids or Wizards to provide teleports, and not even any Bards to provide a super-fast run buff in the form of Selo's, they are dependent on their Beastlords and Shaman for movement buffs to help aid travel. (note that a portal to the Plane of Hate would be located in Neriak, so evil characters can still access that zone. Evil characters would have no access to Plane of Sky whatsoever, although the epic class quests would be changed so that no items are required from the zone...but don't worry, that zone would still have a lot of very valuable drops...I would somewhat modify the drops in the game so that Kunark isn't SO heavily dominant as it is in the current game)

senna
08-21-2013, 07:49 PM
fuckin' hell m8

Zuranthium
08-21-2013, 07:54 PM
Constructive posts only, please read it all and think about the intention behind everything before commenting.

Kika Maslyaka
08-21-2013, 08:11 PM
sounds curious ;)
its much more different than a typical (even custom) server setup, so I can't really compare it to anything that already exists (that I aware of)

Question thought, is this just wishful thinking ("what if" speculation) or actual intent to make a custom server on Emu?

Gweed
08-21-2013, 08:13 PM
If you can only group if at least 1 member of your race is already grouped, how will more than 1 race get a group?

I am a Ogre, I must group with at least 1 Ogre. That means I must start a group with another Ogre. Now only other Ogres can join the group

How would raids work? Imagine the logistics of having to group all the same races together.

Zuranthium
08-21-2013, 08:23 PM
If you can only group if at least 1 member of your race is already grouped, how will more than 1 race get a group?

Oh, I forgot this game only lets you people invite people 1 at a time. What the game SHOULD allow, though, is if you're in a group of 2 or more people, you can invite another group of 2 to join you and the groups combine.

Question thought, is this just wishful thinking ("what if" speculation) or actual intent to make a custom server on Emu?

It's wishful thinking, but there is an announcement on the front page of p1999 that Rogean is looking for new ideas.

phobus
08-21-2013, 09:48 PM
I'd like to see a subtle rework of the resist system, as well as more extreme racial advantages/disadvantages to specific resists. For example, instead of giving Barbarians an innate +10 CR, make it something truly noticable like +50 or 70. If you implement a resist cap, the innate bonus should raise that cap.

Ideally you'd make resists scale more with level. For example, let's say that at level 20 you only need 50 in a given resist stat in order to resist 75% of the spells of that type. Scale it so that at level 60, you need 200 or something to resist 75% of spells, assuming the same level difference.

SCB
08-21-2013, 11:51 PM
Seems unnecessarily restrictive, in a way that prohibits, rather than encourages, immersion.

Bruster
08-21-2013, 11:56 PM
tl;dr

Zuranthium
08-22-2013, 12:48 AM
Seems unnecessarily restrictive, in a way that prohibits, rather than encourages, immersion.

I really think it would make the game much more real. Races and alignments barely mean anything in the current game, although these things should be making a huge difference. Having the Good vs Neutral vs Evil war and then breaking those sects down into further sub-communities is very true to how a real World functions. How many times in real life do you suddenly just take a plane over to Russia and try to hang out with a bunch of people there that you don't know? And just because you belong to a certain nationality, that hardly means you are automatically friendly with all of the different kinds of people within that nationality.

Mimic
08-22-2013, 01:01 AM
Did you really just compare EQ to real life? Cuz ogres, trolls, halflings (well, maybe halflings) and magic exist in real life. :confused:

TAllen82
08-22-2013, 01:10 AM
I refuse to buy that the Frogloks overtook Grobb, in Live, in your idea, either way, they're frogs....just....frogs.. This is not a constructive post, that just really bugged me then, and the suggestion that it happen again, bugs me still

Zuranthium
08-22-2013, 01:49 AM
Did you really just compare EQ to real life? Cuz ogres, trolls, halflings (well, maybe halflings) and magic exist in real life. :confused:

It doesn't matter if it's real life or a fantasy World, the concepts hold true either way. Since when do Ogres, Halflings, and Elves associate with each other as if it's completely normal? When the Hobbits got to Rivendale, did they just say "oh, ok" and then start talking to all the Elves as if they were best friends? No, they didn't. That's the whole point behind why they are different races and live in separate parts of the World. Sure, they can band together if they share a common goal, but there's always going to be a level of misunderstanding.

I refuse to buy that the Frogloks overtook Grobb, in Live, in your idea, either way, they're frogs....just....frogs.

So are Iksar just Lizards? There's no way they could have possibly created a vast empire and conquered the World? And those little Gnomes, how can they possibly be fighting against "real people" and not getting squashed?

I don't see any point to what you're saying. Just some kind of really weird bias about this particular fantasy race. "Not Classic" would be the best argument, but I thought Frogloks were cool as a playable race when that happened, I dunno. That was one of the few things non-classic Everquest actually got right, because it was a real World-changing event.

It's great when you can meld the need for game balance with a roleplaying motive. The "Good" team needs a stronghold in that section of the World, to have a nice balance between the 3 alignments, and the Froglok storyline is a perfect accommodation.

Tikku82
08-22-2013, 02:09 AM
Seems pretty weird. And neutrals only get 3 class penalties that really dont hurt that much...sk,nec,bst. Goods dont have rogues,enchanter? lol and evils no wiz and druid...hw they can port n travel fast? Would hurt raiding abit.

Id see newts owning this server.

Kevynne
08-22-2013, 02:20 AM
Need hie end more than mag

Zuranthium
08-22-2013, 02:44 AM
Neutrals only get 3 class penalties that really dont hurt that much...sk,nec,bst.

That's because they have the weakest strongholds. The Evil and Good factions have attuned areas which better allow them to farm more of the best equipment.

The nice thing about having the attuned areas is that they serve as a buffer for game balance. If a certain alignment is too powerful or too weak, you can adjust their safe areas to make the playing field more level. Travel is HUGELY important in this game setup, because of how limited teleports are, so being forced to run through another alignment's stronghold is a crucial aspect of how the game would work.

El_Zorro
08-22-2013, 03:03 AM
i like the idea of these restrictions, however, all alignments should prob have access to enchanters

maybe deny goods bards instead?

also perhaps neuts could have access to druids while goods/bads have access to wizards
you could choose not to include strategic port spells in the game

Baron
08-22-2013, 03:05 AM
Gotta have evil wizards... A DE Wizard is a must.

Especially since no evil races have druids or wizards for ports.

Other than that, I see you've put a lot of thought into this. Interesting read.

mtb tripper
08-22-2013, 03:07 AM
sounds like dog shit

Zuranthium
08-22-2013, 03:55 AM
Gotta have evil wizards... A DE Wizard is a must.

Especially since no evil races have druids or wizards for ports.

Other than that, I see you've put a lot of thought into this. Interesting read.

Glad you found it interesting. Dark Elf Wizards would ruin the balance, though. :(

I don't want the evils to have teleports because they already "control" so much of the game area. They are the only alignment that actually gets to start in Kunark and the Iksars are centrally located on the continent, allowing them to easily push out in any direction and fight the competition away. It's a huge, huge benefit.

The evils are also the only alignment to get Enchanter and Cleric in the same race, which is a huge advantage for grouping since groups are racially limited. The extreme lack of mobility within the alignment should balance out their other massive advantages.

i like the idea of these restrictions, however, all alignments should prob have access to enchanters.

Thanks for the input and support.

I wouldn't say Enchanters are completely necessary, though? No tash can be a big detriment, but it's not insurmountable. In the end, Clerics are really the only "must have" class in the game, because unless you rework the game mechanics, having Complete Heal is necessary for taking on the hardest content in the game. The good alliance has two Bard races, so that should be fine with regards to fulfilling the crowd control requirement (it would be really cool to see Bards at the forefront like that, actually).

I believe it's very important for all of the alignments to have a significantly different feel. The good alignment has the most stability via a combination of having the most healers, good movement ability, and a couple key strongholds. The neutral race has the most potential for maximization because of the classes they have access to, but they have to fight an uphill battle the whole way because of lacking important strongholds. The evil alignment starts off with the biggest advantage, by far, by also has the lowest capability for rapid expansion.

You want the alignments to be radically different but still have roughly equal odds.

Clark
08-22-2013, 04:10 AM
http://s18.postimg.org/5g2tlx1jt/Double_Face_Palm.jpg

SyanideGas
08-22-2013, 04:15 AM
The class limitation sounds like the free version of live right now.

myriverse
08-22-2013, 10:05 AM
None of this seems good for immersion, imo. Doesn't sound like a game I would want to play. Just a bunch of arbitrary, unrealistic restrictions.

Kohedron
08-22-2013, 11:26 AM
I was gonna just say "not classic" and leave, but the changes are interesting.

But nevertheless, not classic

Zuranthium
08-22-2013, 12:19 PM
The class limitation sounds like the free version of live right now.

What are they doing on live right now?

A1551
08-22-2013, 12:48 PM
http://s18.postimg.org/5g2tlx1jt/Double_Face_Palm.jpg

^

Zuranthium
08-22-2013, 02:16 PM
Stop being so boring.

Victorio
08-22-2013, 02:21 PM
I'm all for teams and restrictions, but this breakdown doesn't seem well balanced at all. SZ style was the best!

Zuranthium
08-22-2013, 02:31 PM
I'm all for teams and restrictions, but this breakdown doesn't seem well balanced at all.

Hence the built-in ways of balancing if it ends up being too skewed.

Wotsirb401
08-22-2013, 02:33 PM
No Ogre warriors? Zero mobs would be killed

Kevynne
08-22-2013, 04:40 PM
Each race needs t ha 1) tank, 1dps and 1heal

Bantam 1
08-22-2013, 04:53 PM
Stop being so boring.

Alright.. you put a lot of thought into and that's cool. Beyond that though your ideas are restrictive with no real purpose other than artificially making the game harder (read tedious) for the sake of it.


"The game is too easy.... so lets make it more tedious." is the TLDR version of your post.

Every one of your ideas scream tedious yet are only fun to the few people who want that exact set up.... it's like if red had a 1 death limit. I'm sure SOME people would love it, but it would be like 5.

Kevynne
08-22-2013, 06:18 PM
Barbarian: Warrior, Berserker, Shaman

Dark Elf: Shadow Knight, Wizard, Cleric

Dwarf: Warrior, Berserker, Cleric

Erudite (good) : Paladin, Magician, Cleric

Erudite (evil) : Shadow Knight, Necromancer, Cleic

Froglok: Warrior, Rogue, Shaman

Gnome (good) : Paladin, Rogue, Cleric

Gnome (evil) : Shadow Knight, Necromancer, Cleric

Half-Elf: Warrior, Bard, Druid

Halfling: Warrior, Rogue, Cleric

High Elf: Paladin, Enchanter, Cleric

Human (good) : Paladin, Monk, Druid

Human (evil) : Shadow Knight, Monk, Cleric

Iksar: Shadow Knight, Monk, Shaman

Kerran: Warrior, Beastlord, Shaman

Ogre: Warrior, Berserker, Shaman

Troll: Shadow Knight, Beastlord, Shaman

Wood Elf: Warrior, Ranger, Druid


This is good. Fixed for my own opinin

Kevynne
08-22-2013, 06:21 PM
Also, eliminated neut team.
Barbs good, as slings good, halfies good and kerrans evil

Zuranthium
08-22-2013, 07:25 PM
Each race needs t ha 1) tank, 1dps and 1heal

All you "need" to have is the ability to kill before you get killed. Assuming natural health regen rates weren't so ridiculous. If a melee class could naturally heal up from almost dead to full health in 10 minutes, then it opens a lot of doors for grouping. Having a dedicated healer would be better, you'd level faster that way, but it wouldn't be necessary just to level.

For harder PvE content or trying to PvP a strong team, that's when you need more structure. But of course that's why the races are part of a greater alignment. You can still form into more ideal setups, you HAVE to eventually (if you want to achieve something greater). Each individual race just needs to be able to level up within their own sects and areas of the game.

Alright.. you put a lot of thought into and that's cool. Beyond that though your ideas are restrictive with no real purpose other than artificially making the game harder (read tedious) for the sake of it.

"The game is too easy.... so lets make it more tedious." is the TLDR version of your post.

It's not about making the game more tedious at all...exactly the opposite. It's about making the game more unpredictable and making each individual character's journey much more unique. Yes, travel will often take longer in this version of the game, but the idea is that people defend their own territories and go on missions into other territories. It's not about every player taking the same route, trying to farm the exact same equipment, and teleporting around the game World constantly.

You get real communities (aside from Guilds) in this version of the game, which is part of what made Everquest so special in 1999. What I am talking about adding to the game in fact gives you a REAL "Classic Everquest" kind of experience. Doing things like this is in fact the ONLY way to truly make "Classic Everquest" come back to life; p1999 is currently far removed from what Classic Everquest actually was.

If you choose to be a High Elf Magician in this version of the game, then your gaming experience is going to be radically different than if you had chosen to be an Erudite Magician. And a Gnome Magician's gaming experience would be different than both of the others. That's great.

skipdog
08-22-2013, 07:46 PM
Why post here? Go post in emu forums and get some feedback there. Then go ahead and start this server of yours!

SCB
08-23-2013, 12:51 PM
Ogres are the chosen children of Rallos Zek, cursed to caveman-levels for their skill in war. Having no Ogre Warriors is an affront to EQ's lore. If you want to make restrictions for EQ, I have no idea why you would ever try to limit classes. Classes have already been limited according to Verant's lore.

Put in zone restrictions, group restrictions, whatever. Clamping down on classes makes no sense to me.

khanable
08-23-2013, 01:35 PM
no iksar warrior?

shits weak

Zuranthium
08-23-2013, 02:02 PM
Ogres are the chosen children of Rallos Zek, cursed to caveman-levels for their skill in war. Having no Ogre Warriors is an affront to EQ's lore.

Since they've been cursed, they no longer have the patience nor the intelligence to train as proper Warriors. They have to take the easy way out and follow the dark side as Shadowknights or the primitive ways of Berserkers and Beastlords.

So, actually, this makes more sense with EQ lore. :cool:

t0lkien
08-23-2013, 02:27 PM
Why post here? Go post in emu forums and get some feedback there. Then go ahead and start this server of yours!

billw134
08-23-2013, 03:04 PM
No ports for evil alignment at all?


Dokt Orjones

runlvlzero
08-23-2013, 03:46 PM
Sounds like a really well thought out and fleshed out idea in the spirit of EQ.

+1

Bantam 1
08-24-2013, 12:26 AM
Since they've been cursed, they no longer have the patience nor the intelligence to train as proper Warriors. They have to take the easy way out and follow the dark side as Shadowknights or the primitive ways of Berserkers and Beastlords.

So, actually, this makes more sense with EQ lore. :cool:


Sorry man, but .....


http://mlkshk.com/r/DN2B

Zuranthium
08-24-2013, 12:31 AM
Nice logic and reasoning you've got there. Oh wait.

Bantam 1
08-24-2013, 12:38 AM
Nice logic and reasoning you've got there. Oh wait.

Well really it wasn't meant to have logic... was really more in response to your "Ogres not being warriors fits with EQ lore!"

There's really nothing to say there, but NOPE. It's like saying the sun isn't hot.

Zuranthium
08-24-2013, 01:57 AM
Of course there is something to say there, you just aren't putting in any effort whatsoever to think about somebody else's viewpoint.

Your argument - because Ogres were created by "The God of War", it's heresy that this race wouldn't be allowed to pick the Warrior class.

My argument - since Ogres were indeed cursed and changed from the state they were originally created as, something specifically talked about in EQ Lore, then it actually could make sense that they aren't allowed to be Warriors anymore.

My argument #2 - making all of the races feel completely different from each other brings the EQ World and Lore to life better than ever before. It adds to game immersiveness, since players will constantly be affected by their race and be actively engaging within a roleplaying aspect of this MMORPG, even if they aren't a player who "roleplays".

Clark
08-24-2013, 05:52 AM
http://s21.postimg.org/bz3acjqef/yy1.jpg

astuce999
08-24-2013, 08:28 AM
Good 9 – Good 8- Good 7 – Neutral6 – Neutral 5 – Neutral4 – Evil 3 – Evil 2 – Evil 1

I always thought that alignment restrictions would be a good part of the game. I had started something that I wanted to put in my dream EQ server, but ended up scratching it last minute so as to get feedback mainly on class balance.
I thought about removing class and race XP penalties, and instead focus on group make ups with alignment as the main factor for xp bonus or penalties.
The way I had thought it should work, was that there were 3 levels of each alignment, and that groups would be limited to 3 hops on some level. So a High Elf Cleric who worships Tunare would be a level 3 good, and would only be allowed in a group with a level 2 good, level 1 good or level 3 neutral to get a specific group xp bonus. If a group found a way to get even less hops between alignments, the bonus would grow. If there were more than 3 hops, then an XP penalty would start to take effect. So that same cleric would hate grouping with a troll shaman because it would kill her xp, and instead would love to have a wood elf ranger because it would give her a bonus. That same troll shaman would find an ogre warrior a highly compatible road companion.
This way, instead of min/max’ing because of class penalties like people do now, they would do it in a way that makes more sense lore-wise, and it wouldn’t always be the same classes that would be shun. Also, by only affecting the xp rate of a group, and not prohibiting completely the type of group make-up, it still lets raids happen in a conventional sense without the huge logistic’s headache of grouping only certain alignments.
I hope you see it as a constructive comment to the work you put in in thinking of your server, and for reference, the server I had thought of was posted here:
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=105887
Astuce Subterfuge

myriverse
08-24-2013, 08:38 AM
Nice logic and reasoning you've got there. Oh wait.
No logic is better than bad logic.

The curse was upon their minds not their bodies. The lore even states that they only forgot things, but they remained just as strong.

One Tin Soldier
08-24-2013, 10:20 AM
Good 9 – Good 8- Good 7 – Neutral6 – Neutral 5 – Neutral4 – Evil 3 – Evil 2 – Evil 1

I always thought that alignment restrictions would be a good part of the game. I had started something that I wanted to put in my dream EQ server, but ended up scratching it last minute so as to get feedback mainly on class balance.
I thought about removing class and race XP penalties, and instead focus on group make ups with alignment as the main factor for xp bonus or penalties.
The way I had thought it should work, was that there were 3 levels of each alignment, and that groups would be limited to 3 hops on some level. So a High Elf Cleric who worships Tunare would be a level 3 good, and would only be allowed in a group with a level 2 good, level 1 good or level 3 neutral to get a specific group xp bonus. If a group found a way to get even less hops between alignments, the bonus would grow. If there were more than 3 hops, then an XP penalty would start to take effect. So that same cleric would hate grouping with a troll shaman because it would kill her xp, and instead would love to have a wood elf ranger because it would give her a bonus. That same troll shaman would find an ogre warrior a highly compatible road companion.
This way, instead of min/max’ing because of class penalties like people do now, they would do it in a way that makes more sense lore-wise, and it wouldn’t always be the same classes that would be shun. Also, by only affecting the xp rate of a group, and not prohibiting completely the type of group make-up, it still lets raids happen in a conventional sense without the huge logistic’s headache of grouping only certain alignments.
I hope you see it as a constructive comment to the work you put in in thinking of your server, and for reference, the server I had thought of was posted here:
http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=105887
Astuce Subterfuge


Now that's an interesting idea. I have thought in the past that alignment could be used to result in more "roleplay" type of grouping but I never thought about making use of exp. penalties for grouping with conflicting alignments. I had thought that maybe a faction hit could be applied or something like that but your idea would accomplish the same thing without being quite so draconian.

Pretty good idea really.

As to the original post of this thread: My initial thought is that the races are a little too restricted in the classes they get. I think I would try to ensure that each of the major alignments gets every class rather than trying to ensure that they each lack certain classes. Also, if you don't like fast travel just take ports away from druids and wizards.

Psycher
08-24-2013, 10:55 AM
Go for it, I'd give it a try. Don't be discouraged by the scum on these forums, creating something different like this has potential. If you're really passionate about it perhaps it will be successful. I think the overall EQemu community is looking for something new to try.

Zuranthium
08-24-2013, 12:50 PM
astuce, that alignment idea is really good! I think hard alignments are probably better for a PvP server, but I really like your idea for a PvE server.

Your idea about Rogues having a chance to interrupt with thrown attacks is really good thinking - these are the kind of mechanics that games need for greater combat depth. I actually feel that Rangers should be the masters of that, by interrupting with bows. Would definitely be something I'd want to implement, if I had time to improve the EQ combat system.

No logic is better than bad logic.

The curse was upon their minds not their bodies. The lore even states that they only forgot things, but they remained just as strong.

Warriors need to be more than just strong. They have to understand battle tactics and they need to understand the arts of wielding weapons. Hence why most heroic figures win fights by outsmarting or outmaneuvering their opponents. Brute force isn't what makes you a master swordsman.