Druid charming questions

[Medowin]

My Druid is level 25 now and I've been charming mobs to fight each other for a little while. However, after looking through the info and experimenting, I'm still confused on some things. I have some questions:


*How exactly does the XP penalty concerning charmed pets work? Some people say its 50% if the pet does more damage, others say all you have to do is hit it once to get 100% XP, others say you have to kill your charmed pet first to avoid the penalty, etc. I'm not sure exactly what I should be doing to maximize XP. Is there a difference between mage/necro pet penalties and druid charm pet penalties?

*How do you avoid mobs breaking charm? I've tried everything people suggest for my level (sabertooths in LOIO, mammoths in Everfrost, Elephants in SK, etc) and I ALWAYS have a problem with the charm being broken. Dark blue mobs very rarely last long enough through a single fight and I usually end up having to recharm it 2 or even 3 times. If I'm even able to before running for my life.

*Is there any difference between Befriend Animal and Charm Animals? I've experimented and I don't see any difference aside from the mana cost.

*Is it ever worth it to buff a pet, such as with Feral Spirit?

*Which is more effective for a level 25, charming or kiting?



Any answers would be appreciated. :)

[Swish]

50% is the rule, if the charmed pet is doing that much damage you're probably doing something wrong as a druid though. As with necros, stack up the dots...and if you suspect the pet is ahead, pull it off at ~20% and let the dots guarantee the final damage to be yours over 50%.

Charm breaks, its a fact of life... just keep your sow on (enchanters don't have that luxury unless they've got jboots), snare it(?) and recharm.

Rare to see charming being done... kiting/quadding is much more druid-esque from what I've seen :p

[Elamder]

Good questions here. Druid charming is level based and the higher your level, compared to your target the better. Charms break, it's just what happens. At level 25 I was able to charm mammoths in Everfrost and kill another quite easily. Some pulls everything went wrong and I had to root or snare to get things back under control. As I hit 26 and 27 it got easier and easier. Since I do not use DoTs to kill my target my pet does almost 80% of the damage, so I kill my charmed pet. The goal is to get them both down under 20% health and then break the charm. I try to hide first and if that doesn't work, then I cast camo. I always kill my charmed target first, and then the other.

As I said sometimes its frantic trying to get things snared or re-charmed, but if done right I have to cast three spells per 2 mammoths; charm, snare (on the one being killed) and camo.

Also, I always use the highest level charm. At 29 you will get ensnare that lasts forever, not having to worry about snare dropping.

Finally, do not be afraid to fear one to get things under control.

[Nysus]

I always use the lower level charm. I didn't notice any duration difference with the higher level charm and it costs more mana and has a longer cast time.

Be keep your sure target rooted. That way if charm does break you only have 1 thing beating on you instead of two.

And don't forget about the pet back command. I did for a while. ;(

[Estu]

As far as I can recall, the main difference between the different charm spells is how high level an animal you can charm with them.

Totally disagree with Swish's advice here. Don't stack up dots, it's a waste of mana. No one seems to be sure how the EXP penalty works with charming, but in any case you're either getting full experience for two downed monsters or full experience for one and half experience for another. It's not worth burning a ton of mana on dots to outdamage your pet just so that you can bridge the gap between two monsters' worth of experience and one and a half monsters' worth of experience.

[falkun]

Break charm at low HPs, nuke/DoT down both mobs (pet and pet's target), get full exp off both mobs.

[TWDL_Prexus]

If you are having problems charming DB's you can try using a low level charm, use it on a LB. Find a DB animal, sick pet, ensnare then fear the target. Let the pet bring it down to 5% or so then back it off, break charm then kill it yourself. LB pets tend to last a bit longer. I leveled my druid from 14-46 only charm kiting and used only LBs(pre pet exp nerf tho, it was much easier then). If you keep the target feared you wont have to worry about your LB pet dying.

[webrunner5]

Break charm at low HPs, nuke/DoT down both mobs (pet and pet's target), get full exp off both mobs.

What he said. Later Quad Kiting is the way to go IF you can hack it. :eek: I hated it. I soloed to like level 36 and started grouping again till like level 53, 54. Hard to get groups past level 52 on a Druid without Guildies feeling sorry for you. :(

[TWDL_Prexus]

What he said. Later Quad Kiting is the way to go IF you can hack it. :eek: I hated it. I soloed to like level 36 and started grouping again till like level 53, 54. Hard to get groups past level 52 on a Druid without Guildies feeling sorry for you. :(

6 man groups perhaps. But I had no problems duoing or trioing well into the upper 50s on my druid. Druid and Enchanter can be a good duo with having evac handy incase things get messy. Not to mention who needs groups when the perma pits are great exp =D

[Sachant]

My understanding is that if your pet does 100% damage to the target, you get very little XP (<50%), if you do 1-50% damage, you get 50% XP, and if you do >50% damage, you get more than that (100%? Maybe with some pet penalty?). Regardless, if you're doing traditional charm double-killing, you always want to drop charm before killing so the penalty is moot.

You can probably get away with using a lower-level charm. Each charm has a maximum level of mob it can charm, which is listed on the wiki.

Don't waste mana on DoTs or nukes just to DPS, you should be spending almost all of your mana on snares and charms. The only exceptions are using DoTs to either hold aggro (see below) or finish off a mob, casting the occasional fear when needed, or using Invis vs. Animals to break charm.

Let's take Everfrost mammoths for example. The technique is rather simple on paper:

1) Snare one mammoth and get it to follow you.
2) Snare another mammoth and get it to follow you.
3) Wait for them to meet you in the middle.
4) Run big circles around them so they end up inside one another (or very close).
5) Charm one and have it attack the other, make sure it's taunting.
6) Keep running in circles so they stay in range (mind the orcs wandering around EF, especially the shamans with SoW).

You want the non-charmed mob to attack your pet as soon as possible, so don't DoT or do anything to hold aggro. If the two mobs are attacking each other, their HP should go down roughly the same amount at the same time (for free!). This is important since ideally you want both mobs to be below 15-20% when you break charm.

7) Once the target mob turns around and attacks your pet, laugh like a maniac because your evil plan is working. This is important for maximum XP gain.
7a) If charm drops, get some distance (they'll both still be snared), circle them up again, and re-charm whichever one has the lower HP. Keep Gate memmed if you need to book it.
8) When either your pet or the target (use Tab to quickly check both) is at low HP, break charm (use Invis vs. Animals, or Hide if you're feeling lucky). Finish them off with DoTs or nukes (DoTs are more mana-efficient if the target is rooted, or running away due to low HP).

Tip: If they're both at less than 15% HP, but they're not running away because they're on top of each other, fear one to separate them and the other will start to flee as well. They should both be snared, so they'll move slowly (if at all) and take the full DoT damage per tick.

8a) If one of the two mobs is still above 40% or so when you have to beak charm to kill the other, instead of killing it you can keep it snared and find another mammoth. When you do, circle them up like normal and charm the low-HP one. Turn off taunt and try to hold aggro on the non-charmed mob (Flame Lick is good for this, or just fear it) until it's also around the same HP level, then get them to fight each other and continue as normal.

Always charm the mob with the lower HP of the two, since they'll get a few free hits on the non-charmed mob before taking any damage and you want to keep them at roughly the same HP.

This is just one technique of several (other techniques use Feral Spirit, that pet haste spell, for example). If you have any questions, look me up in-game (Sachant). I had some great mentors for this and would love to pay it forward.

[wrxBRAH]

Been charm killing on my druid for a few levels now and I can honestly say I don't notice the difference in exp when I do 51% of the damage or less than 10% of damage. I'm not going to divulge too much info but fear animal line of spells is a godsend. I can usually charm a single pet in my 30s and easily take down 4-5 blue mobs with a mana bar and thats with shit gear (few slots only have base leather pieces).

[rattrap17]

I'm not going to divulge too much info

Why in the world not? Are these trade secrets?

Awesome post by Sachant with a lot of great info. I've been using a simplified version of this. I just charm (using the lowest charm spell possible for the lvl of mob I'm charming to save mana) a mammoth and then find a second and sick it on it. I don't bother snaring since the sub 29 snare is crazy short duration. I just sit and med until one of them gets below 15 percent and then I go for the invis vs animals. The one with higher health will usually attack me and I'll just nuke it down (unless it has more than 40 percent for some reason in which case I'll root rot it down). Then I'll finish off the one that's running.

Sure, sometimes charm breaks early or one mammoth is a lot stronger than the other, but then you just throw down some roots or snares and you can recover. I never did any animal charming back on live so this is a fun new way to solo.

[wrxBRAH]

Why in the world not? Are these trade secrets?



Not really trade secrets. Just don't want it nerfed if whats happening is unintended. I've already said too much. You guys can play with it and figure out what I'm talking about.

[Vellaen]

Fear kiting is not exactly a trade secret from anyone. And the only reason anything would be nerfed is if it wasn't possible to do during the era the devs are attempting to replicate from live.

As far as I know, the only changes made to P1999 for any kind of balance or tuning reason are the tweak to lifetaps/Ivandyr's Hoop and raid mob variance. The unspoken purpose of this server may as well be the merciless exploitation of accumulated knowledge and foresight which, when combined with a teaspoon of nostalgia, make this such an enjoyable server to play on.

[Yinikren]

If you're worried about something getting nerfed when you divulge how you do it, you probably aren't supposed to fucking do it.

[Sachant]

Fear kiting with charm is pretty simple anyway.

1) Find a potential pet
2) Find a target mob and snare it
2) (Optional) Snare the potential pet
3) Charm the pet
4) (Optional) Dispel snare on pet with Cancel Magic
5) (Recommended) Cast Feral Spirit (haste) on pet
6) (Recommended) Cast Flame Lick on target mob (to apply cheap damage)
7) Fear the target mob
8) Have your pet chase the target and kill it, recast fear when necessary
9) (Optional) Drop charm before killing the mob
10) Rinse and repeat, re-charming your pet when necessary

That's what I do, anyway. Everyone has their variants. Mine isn't the most mana efficient, but I use snare liberally for safety because it's rather cheap and I don't like accidentally running into adds.

[webrunner5]

Ray Charles can read between the lines that he is fear kiting. :D

[Loli Pops]

As a 55+ DRU here is the charm method I prefer:

Snare the mob to be charmed
Charm it
Haste/thorns buff it
Attack target 1
Root target 1
When target 1 close to death attack target 2
Root target 2
When all 3 mobs < 10% life BREAK charm
Use hide/Invis to BREAK charm
Finish all three mobs with dot/root for full XP

Protip: It took me forever to finally check out DuxaUI, but now that I did I easily see a major change in XP gains compared to quad kiting.

[Slynx]

As far as I know (and it certainly feels right when playing), the Druid Charm is level based, so the more levels you have above your charmed pet then the longer its likely to last without breaking

As for how I use the charmed pet it is very similar to lolipops. Theres a spawn near Everfrost where 4 mammoths pop close to the enternace.

1. Charm one mammoth as a pet (the one in the dip always seemed the most reliable one to me).
2. Snare Mammoth2 and pull it to the hill, then set the pet on it.
3. Allow the mammoths to fight each other till your pet is around 40%. when it reachs 40% then fear the Mammoth2.
4. Once Mammoth2 falls below 20%, if snare is still active on it it will cease to move, once Mammoth2 drops below 10% back off your Pet.
5. Snare Mammoth3 and pull it to the hill
6. Fear Mammoth3 and set Pet on it
7. Once Mammoth3 is in single digits of health back off Pet
8. Do this for Mammoth4, but allow Mammoth4 to knock your pet below 20% before you fear it.
9. Once Mammoth4 is below 10% health back off pet.
10. Hide/Camo to break charm on Pet
11. Kill ex-Pet
12 Kill Mammoths 2, 3 and 4

The main reason for getting your pet low is so that if you have a really serious issue with re-charming it, then its low enough that a snare, fear and a few dots will kill it quickly without using too much mana.

This way you get full xp for all 4 mammoths. Rarely run oom and always have plenty of mana to re-snare, fear and charm in case anything goes wrong. Your biggest worry is having to haul arond all of the Tusks before you gate off to sell them (bind here and you can port to a Druid circle to sell and then gate back)

[Estu]

Your biggest worry is having to haul arond all of the Tusks before you gate off to sell them (bind here and you can port to a Druid circle to sell and then gate back)

There's a merchant right in EverFrost in a ruin near Permafrost that you can sell to. If you face away from Permafrost and follow the wall on your right, you'll get to the ruin.