No hope in groups 1-40?

[doeda]

Is it just me or do tanks mostly warriors that I've been grouped with have no concept of how taunt works? (don't spam the button doesn't do anything after you have aggro)
DPS just randomly zergs mobs because its hitting someone other than them(zero use of an assist macro) or because the tank doesn't have a "assist me on X target macro"

I am a bard and I AoE kited from 2-40 and I ended up tanking,slowing/snaring,mezzing up to 4 mobs because with two classes that could CC, they didn't want to assist in crowd controlling in a group last night...or am I just playing with a bunch of down syndrome wow fan boys that got into Everquest?:(

[Mathiasaurus]

People are fairly responsive if you help them become better players in group.

"Hey, please assist X"

"Hey, Shadowknight tank. User disease cloud for snap agro."

"Hey, root classes. Please root for CC. Tank, stand on top of the mob for agro. Dps stand at max range."

[Stinkum]

A combination of two things.

#1 - Players are generally not good. As an example, most Shamans go Barbarian and then gear their character like a Druid (facepalm) and have no understanding of their class.

#2 - Bards do SO much in a group that it makes your group-mates look even worse. As a Bard, I'm getting 3-4 mobs locked down on mezz even though our Ranger or Pally puller could root park adds easily. I'm snaring runners even though we have 2 other classes in the group that can snare. I'm doing fair DPS meleeing and actually assisting the MT. I'm interupting spell casters even though that big race in our group can slam or Knight could bash interupt. Meanwhile, my mana song, heal song, or haste song hasn't dropped for one tick the entire time. Now, compare that amount of work to the average EQ player: A Druid in your group that's putting his DoTs on a mob that stays alive for 15 seconds, not snaring runners, who you have to remind to refresh DS, etc.

[Hamahakki]

Tanks at lower levels keep aggro worse for a number of reasons:

- Mobs have lower HP so people don't want to wait for the tank to get a head start on threat
- Taunt is less effective because the skill cap is lower and because you fight more yellow and red monsters
- Squishy classes are less squishy so they care less about getting hit
- Many of the good threat weapons don't proc yet
- Non-twinked tanks are way behind twinked melee characters in terms of gear

At higher levels, all of these problems get better.

Edit: Note all this applies to warriors only, there is no excuse for a Paladin/SK/Ranger not to keep agro as long as they have mana

[doeda]

People are fairly responsive if you help them become better players in group.

"Hey, please assist X"

"Hey, Shadowknight tank. User disease cloud for snap agro."

"Hey, root classes. Please root for CC. Tank, stand on top of the mob for agro. Dps stand at max range."

I tried to get the tank to get an assist macro, but I don't want to really push people to the point where I am looking like a Dbag, mostly as the dps/root class goes it was mostly they did not have mana to root because of chain nuking a mob from 15%-0...maybe it was just me but on live in Crushbone tanks were very firm on the assist me stuff on Prexus

[fastboy21]

Some don't understand how it works...

The bigger issue for warriors is that their aggro is essentially based on weapon quality/procs for most of the leveling content, not on their taunt ability (regardless of how well you use it/understand it). Classic EQ.

[Tecmos Deception]

I tried to get the tank to get an assist macro, but I don't want to really push people to the point where I am looking like a Dbag, mostly as the dps/root class goes it was mostly they did not have mana to root because of chain nuking a mob from 15%-0...maybe it was just me but on live in Crushbone tanks were very firm on the assist me stuff on Prexus

It's tricky, finding a balance between being helpful and people thinking you're just bossing the around. I don't manage to find the balance very often... :)

[Atmas]

Spamming taunt is a problem if people do it, but the bigger issue at low levels is that:
1. Taunt won't work on a lot of the mobs you fight at lower levels.
2. Taunt fails plenty in general.
3. Weapons don't proc.
4. Twinks use weapons that untwinked tanks can't match threat on.

Like Math said, you should talk to the people if you want to see something different.

[skipdog]

You were in a bad group. It can happen and it's relatively rare. Don't let it keep you down, you just rolled a 1 on your 'get a stable group' check a couple times.

[Splorf22]

Stinkum is not wrong. If it helps you any, I have to think that the level of play here is much higher than on live . . . .

That said as a Warrior it is extremely difficult to keep aggro off of a slowing bard without very good weapons (epic/botdbe/vp). My suggestion would be to just skip slow in your initial rotation.

[idontbuff]

yak procs are great for building aggro. Had some great warrior tanks in solb that were aggro magnets.

[Kohedron]

I've got up to level 28 pretty much solely grouping. I've probably had 2 groups that were straight up bad. The rest were great.

One of the two bad groups involved a tank who was perma-half-AFK

[khanable]

At 37 (or whenever they proc) if you're not using dual yaks to keep aggro you're doing it wrong.

Also if your group isn't letting you keep aggro with dual yaks they're doing it wrong.

[Ravager]

I never rolled a tank, but Crookstinger procs a lot at any level. I imagine a pair of poison dot procs would hold some decent aggro.

[fastboy21]

I never rolled a tank, but Crookstinger procs a lot at any level. I imagine a pair of poison dot procs would hold some decent aggro.

not a great choice. dots not a good idea, and it isn't a great aggro proc.

i liked the pgt as a low lvl aggro proc in classic. stun whips. obsidian shard. yaks.

tons of decent ratio stuff with aggro procs in kunark as well.

[Merekai]

I've been grouping with a RL friend who plays a warrior since I started my rogue, he's now lvl 45. We ran into this same problem until his Yak started procing. It doesn't always mean the player is junk, it is just sometimes hard for a warrior to keep agro for example from my rogue when i'm constantly BSing and proccing snare from my SBD. It gets better man trust me.

[Laugher]

Yeah my rl buddy who plays here every once in a while and he had a couple of deso weps and he's always played warriors but couldn't keep aggro here, had a monk in our grp pulling and getting frustrated with him hehe. Proc seems to be ftw although as people here have said the good aggro procs are not usually until at least the mid-late 30s :cool:

*edit* we were lvl 20ish in MM

[Adolphus]

Taunt does not work correctly on the server and is essentially broken at this time. This is fairly well known. Warriors don't start getting good aggro on p1999 until mid-40's when they can proc decent weapons.

I've been duoing my warrior with a cleric friend for about 40 levels now. I can tell you that even with just two of us and the cleric only healing/root CC it is sometimes a struggle to peel mobs off of him.

[Era'viss]

Biggest problem I've ever had grouping was people not even reading party chat to know what the hell was going on. Might as well be "semi-afk"

With decent enough communication skills and patients success can be made in any group.

[Splorf22]

Procs are clearly not a solution to warrior aggro while leveling. If you have a good group, you can kill stuff every 20 seconds. It takes something like 12 seconds to proc on average (even with 255 dex and two weapons). What finally helps warriors is when you hit 55 and the stuff you are killing has 7500+ HP and can't be disintegrated in seconds.

[Atmas]

Also, you got to realize a bard gets a hybrid penalty because they are awesome at doing so many things. You shouldn't be tanking if there is an actual tank, but it is advantageous for bards to do lots of those other utility aspects over some other classes.

[Lyra]

Tanks at lower levels keep aggro worse for a number of reasons:

- Mobs have lower HP so people don't want to wait for the tank to get a head start on threat
- Taunt is less effective because the skill cap is lower and because you fight more yellow and red monsters
- Squishy classes are less squishy so they care less about getting hit
- Many of the good threat weapons don't proc yet
- Non-twinked tanks are way behind twinked melee characters in terms of gear

- Clueless bards that play heal song and other aoe offensive songs with no understanding of hate
edit* - Backstabbing rogues that don't have an evade macro that should be hit when reaching high threat
- Nukers that don't let tank get sufficient aggro before casting their biggest blast
- Healers that heal on incoming


If it helps you any, I have to think that the level of play here is much higher than on live . . . .

You really would think that. I know I expected it. But I've come to learn the majority of you were 14 years old in 1999. I could expand on my experiences with teens in 1999, but since I'd likely offend the majority of this population, I'll refrain.

[Lyra]

I'll add, It is DPS responsibility to manage hate situationally.

[Zyn]

A combination of two things.

#1 - Players are generally not good. As an example, most Shamans go Barbarian and then gear their character like a Druid (facepalm) and have no understanding of their class.

#2 - Bards do SO much in a group that it makes your group-mates look even worse. As a Bard, I'm getting 3-4 mobs locked down on mezz even though our Ranger or Pally puller could root park adds easily. I'm snaring runners even though we have 2 other classes in the group that can snare. I'm doing fair DPS meleeing and actually assisting the MT. I'm interupting spell casters even though that big race in our group can slam or Knight could bash interupt. Meanwhile, my mana song, heal song, or haste song hasn't dropped for one tick the entire time. Now, compare that amount of work to the average EQ player: A Druid in your group that's putting his DoTs on a mob that stays alive for 15 seconds, not snaring runners, who you have to remind to refresh DS, etc.

I'm a bard, and I find it hard to believe that you're mezzing 3 targets, playing mana song, heal song, and haste song AND slowing mobs... without anything dropping. You have to tab target mez each one individually, and they each count as a song in a 4-song twist.

Bards can do a lot, but I thinks youza have anodder bard in das group.

[Cecily]

Macroing hide and backstab together would be kinda dumb. Just sayin...

[fastboy21]

I'm a bard, and I find it hard to believe that you're mezzing 3 targets, playing mana song, heal song, and haste song AND slowing mobs... without anything dropping. You have to tab target mez each one individually, and they each count as a song in a 4-song twist.

Bards can do a lot, but I thinks youza have anodder bard in das group.

Just because you aren't doing every single thing every single tick doesn't mean you aren't doing them all...I think you read him way to literally.

[fastboy21]

Macroing hide and backstab together would be kinda dumb. Just sayin...

I've never macro'd my hide key to anything either. No need to do so. You would wind up with many instances of getting aggro with your hide ability already being down instead of being able to click it as soon as you get aggro.

[Lyra]

I've never macro'd my hide key to anything either. No need to do so. You would wind up with many instances of getting aggro with your hide ability already being down instead of being able to click it as soon as you get aggro.

Ok, I meant an evade macro that you often hit after backstab. I wasn't clear.

/attack OFF
/doability 6 (or whichever ability menu slot you assigned to your Hide skill)
/attack ON

[fastboy21]

I understood what you meant. Hide is the same ability as evade, if you are a rogue. I just wouldn't macro it to my backstab. I hold it until i get aggro, and then hit it. The exact same way I hit taunt on my war when i lose aggro.

Maybe I'm wrong to do it this way, but it seems to work best for me this way.

[Lyra]

The macro is the evade and does not include the backstab...

I will edit my post to make it clear.

[fastboy21]

ahh i see what you mean now.

[Vermicelli]

People are fairly responsive if you help them become better players in group.

"Hey, please assist X"

"Hey, Shadowknight tank. User disease cloud for snap agro."

"Hey, root classes. Please root for CC. Tank, stand on top of the mob for agro. Dps stand at max range."

This. If you have a problem in your group, talk about it.

[runlvlzero]

Got to admit. Quality of players fluctuates. The really good ones are all at max level for a few years now.

There are 1 out of 10 decent ones leveling. But even they can be slacking on their twinked out toons.

I only know of a total of 10 players I would even call "tournament level good".

Should be a ladder server with 4xp, with some serious rewards for being top dog first IMO. Resets every month. This would promote some people trying to win. And getting better. No one is rewarded for being good + not twinked (requiring them to play good). Game is broke in this regard.

[a_gnoll_pup]

Is it just me or do tanks mostly warriors that I've been grouped with have no concept of how taunt works? (don't spam the button doesn't do anything after you have aggro)
DPS just randomly zergs mobs because its hitting someone other than them(zero use of an assist macro) or because the tank doesn't have a "assist me on X target macro"

I am a bard and I AoE kited from 2-40 and I ended up tanking,slowing/snaring,mezzing up to 4 mobs because with two classes that could CC, they didn't want to assist in crowd controlling in a group last night...or am I just playing with a bunch of down syndrome wow fan boys that got into Everquest?:(

As a bard I have the opposite problem. I have people that are too cautious and have terrible knowledge of general gameplay. Druids that would rather blow their whole mana pool in one nuke whereas they could be dotting for efficiency, melee/tanks that go off on their own, casters that pull aggro with high-hitting DD spells and wonder why they die from aggro, etc. It definitely feels like 99 and no one has any clue how to play the game at maximum for their class.

I end up leaving most groups because they'd rather pull 1 light blue at a time. At that point I find out I am wasting my time and just go aoe kite.

To be fair the same exact thing happened in 1999, it just pisses you off more - now that games like WoW are out and make you hate society.

[Masq]

Got to admit. Quality of players fluctuates. The really good ones are all at max level for a few years now.

There are 1 out of 10 decent ones leveling. But even they can be slacking on their twinked out toons.

I only know of a total of 10 players I would even call "tournament level good".

Should be a ladder server with 4xp, with some serious rewards for being top dog first IMO. Resets every month. This would promote some people trying to win. And getting better. No one is rewarded for being good + not twinked (requiring them to play good). Game is broke in this regard.

what consists of being good in EQ, when most classes simply have 2-3 buttons to press?

[runlvlzero]

Situational awareness, managing that agro, etc... theres lots of depth to even one sided classes like wars...

Adds getting on enchanter? Switch off autoattack and taunt them off until the chanter can get them mezzed. Same for SK's and pals if their not MTs etc... Switch weapons to sheild bash, or reduce damage in come for a last second CH. Tons of things for a war even thought they are possibly the least interesting class ability wise.

Rooting, wizards arguably have 1 button to press 99% of the time, but if they root CC with chanter, and prioritize targets to caster mobs or mobs that are tough for the group but easy for the wiz, they will be 100% more effective than someone who just soley focus's on mana efficiency. Rather then nuking on all incoming mobs, they can burn at 40% or 30% or 20% to drop a mob to 1% hp. Or focus on healers this way by dropping a nuke and stun (or vice versa).

Theres plenty "good players" but they are average IMO. The crazy good insanely deep players who are 100% paying attention at all times and know how to maneuver in a group situation. Know all the zones, all the drops. The best gear at what levels to get it. Those are few and far between. Those are the ladder winners.

Monks are another somewhat 1 dimensional class that gets a ton of depth when it comes to pulling the right amount of mobs and pulling off amazing splits using line of sight or other pathing tricks with FD. Plenty monks can go pull a mob or two. Some are fantastic and can split a crazy spawn like SolB royals in their sleep with 100% accuracy even if FD is not /randoming well for them that day. That goes for people timing spawns and repops and having the zone/mobs memorized on all classes really.

Not many competitive players at low levels anymore for sure.

[Bantam 1]

It's tricky, finding a balance between being helpful and people thinking you're just bossing the around. I don't manage to find the balance very often... :)

Made harder by different people's reactions to help.

[Splorf22]

I understood what you meant. Hide is the same ability as evade, if you are a rogue. I just wouldn't macro it to my backstab. I hold it until i get aggro, and then hit it. The exact same way I hit taunt on my war when i lose aggro.

Maybe I'm wrong to do it this way, but it seems to work best for me this way.

There are a number of problems with waiting until you pull aggro. First, you just rotated the mob. This means all the DPS are suddenly eating ripostes or worst case enrage. Second, your evade might fail. At that point you are praying the tank can save you. So I think it's better to make a hotkey for evade so that you can do it very quickly, and do it as often as you can.

[Splorf22]

Adds getting on enchanter? Switch off autoattack and taunt them off until the chanter can get them mezzed.

I have tried to do this at various points on my warrior. Usually what happens is 5 dps assist me and the next message is:

EnchanterX has become ENRAGED.

[runlvlzero]

LOl dumb dps ;p not always the right thing to do. I hate dps that switch once the've been hotkeyd a mob. And all focused on it.

When I pull on my war i will even watch for the mez graphics to start and turn off attack if the enchanter is mezzing the mob I happen to be on. Start again after moving back and splitting them. Smart groups see me do this and wait till mobs are parked and I engage one to /assist. Its a difference in 1-2 seconds of dps and better for people to just wait and figure out whats going on on a big pull. This way enchanter can mez on inc, and can have 2-3 mobs parked with no heals needed.

Another thing people do... is face away from mobs (turn their back on mobs) and "run through mobs" (making the mobs hit them in the back again) rather than slowly backing away a bit. Especially classes with root... sometimes that root or stun will land before someone can pull agro off you.

[Tycko]

I recently leveled a toon from 20-50 and I had no issues. A few odd balls here and there, but if they doing something wrong, a simple tip or recommendation seems to solve that problem.

[runlvlzero]

Nah its not bad, plenty of decent players. I was trying to illustrate the difference between "can play the game just fine" and "super pro".

[Jimjam]

Nah its not bad, plenty of decent players. I was trying to illustrate the difference between "can play the game just fine" and "super pro".

This is a good point. Sometimes eq is played min/max. Other times its a chat room with swords.

[xarzzardorn]

Is it just me or do tanks mostly warriors that I've been grouped with have no concept of how taunt works? (don't spam the button doesn't do anything after you have aggro)
DPS just randomly zergs mobs because its hitting someone other than them(zero use of an assist macro) or because the tank doesn't have a "assist me on X target macro"

I am a bard and I AoE kited from 2-40 and I ended up tanking,slowing/snaring,mezzing up to 4 mobs because with two classes that could CC, they didn't want to assist in crowd controlling in a group last night...or am I just playing with a bunch of down syndrome wow fan boys that got into Everquest?:(

wow youre so good at the game you should give out lessons to people instead of posting about how awesome you are perhaps?

go fuck yourself

[Weekapaug]

Nah its not bad, plenty of decent players. I was trying to illustrate the difference between "can play the game just fine" and "super pro".

Well, lucky us that we have you to illustrate that difference for us. LOL @ "Quality of players fluctuates. The really good ones are all at max level for a few years now." Yes, because when the server went up there was a batphone to every good EQ player to start and everyone who has started since sucks. I started here 3 years ago about the same time you did and I'm not sure what server you were playing on, but the general talent of the playerbase here was something just south of "terrible" and just north of "complete shit." I've been in vastly better groups over the last 2 years than I ever was during Summer/Fall of '10. You, sir, and people like you with the elitist horseshit are exactly what is wrong with this server.

This whole thread is obnoxious.

Oh and to the OP, for warriors, especially untwinked ones, it is a royal bitch to pull and keep aggro off of bards at full sail. Might try timing your shit better before lecturing others on how to play their classes. Taunt is broken here, always has been, and even if it wasn't doesn't do a lot when bards and casters are blowing their loads in the first 2 rounds of combat. And why is CCing 4 mobs even an issue? With a superfantastic superstar bard like yourself in the group, why aren't you using your leet skillz to pull singles?

LOL @ soloing to 40 then finally grouping and bitching about how others play. If you notice a pattern, you might keep in mind that the only true common factor in every situation you are in is YOU.

[Medowin]

I feel bad for tanks that have to put up with entitled players who have little group responsibilities telling them how "bad" they're doing instead of being grateful that they are there in the first place.


This is why I hated playing World of Warcraft. I'm sad people with this kind of douchebaggery exist here too.

[webrunner5]

wow youre so good at the game you should give out lessons to people instead of posting about how awesome you are perhaps?

go fuck yourself

Sort of what he said. :D

[runlvlzero]

Well, lucky us that we have you to illustrate that difference for us. LOL @ "Quality of players fluctuates. The really good ones are all at max level for a few years now." Yes, because when the server went up there was a batphone to every good EQ player to start and everyone who has started since sucks. I started here 3 years ago about the same time you did and I'm not sure what server you were playing on, but the general talent of the playerbase here was something just south of "terrible" and just north of "complete shit." I've been in vastly better groups over the last 2 years than I ever was during Summer/Fall of '10. You, sir, and people like you with the elitist horseshit are exactly what is wrong with this server.

This whole thread is obnoxious.

Oh and to the OP, for warriors, especially untwinked ones, it is a royal bitch to pull and keep aggro off of bards at full sail. Might try timing your shit better before lecturing others on how to play their classes. Taunt is broken here, always has been, and even if it wasn't doesn't do a lot when bards and casters are blowing their loads in the first 2 rounds of combat. And why is CCing 4 mobs even an issue? With a superfantastic superstar bard like yourself in the group, why aren't you using your leet skillz to pull singles?

LOL @ soloing to 40 then finally grouping and bitching about how others play. If you notice a pattern, you might keep in mind that the only true common factor in every situation you are in is YOU.

Lucky for us we have retards like you who can't take criticism constructive or otherwise. Who have major egos to bruise. And who take very general broad statements as personal attacks. Leading to many threads like this. Your obnoxious. Waiting for the Umpteenth Reich to eliminate your genes. Thanks.

Good job dood. Doodette. Tranny. W/e.

[Weekapaug]

You're a fucking idiot. Learn to read.

Or as you would say, your an idiot.

[Kohedron]

A lotta butthurt in this thread. I'm not even sure what the issue is.

I'm level 30 now. Closing in on the noted level of 40.

As a rogue, I only had one tank ever 'scold' me for backstabbing too quickly.

I'm totally open to suggestions, as I was in this case. She was a warrior, and I got pretty accustomed to SK's and pallys who get instant aggro easily.

[Boone]

Being a fairly new cleric (just lvl14) and playing with my partner (14 War), we have been grouping a lot. The biggest problem I see at these levels is her trying to get aggro off the twinked (whatever class). As the healer in the group, it certainly doesnt do much good to blow all my mana healing the (twinked Ranger, Bard, Wizard, etc.) on the first pull. Some nights, I've gotten to the point that if they are using twinked weapons and grab aggro every pull, they're on their own for healing :P