Rogue DPS charts?

[Wenuven]

Considering rolling either a Rogue or Monk for a pure melee alt. It's only a small factor in my decision, but I'm curious how the DPS stacks up. I found a pretty good thread that lays out monk DPS by weapon but didnt really see anything similar for Rogues.

Part of the enjoyment of playing a melee DPS is seeing the big hit dmg numbers pop up in the chat window, so I'm wondering if anyone can give me some numbers to drool over! Something like:

Max BS at level 60 with decent weapons
Average hit
BS damage at lower levels

I'm also curious about Monk Kick damage if anyone has some data on that too!

[Spacebar]

If you just want to see big numbers, I'd say a rogue. Backstab puts out a ton of damage with big hits. Also, the rogue epic is widely considered the easiest to get. This is a good and bad thing (if you are new). It's bad because a lot of the rogues you will see while leveling have an epic and that could cause your epeen to shrivel a little if you don't have an epic yourself. Also, with a rogue you'll likely be grouping a lot to level (neither a good or bad thing, just something to consider).

The benefits of monks are well known. You have a lot of versatility in play style, considering you are a melee at least. Groups will almost always want you since you can tank, DPS, and pull. And with mend and some decent gear you can do a constant solo during non-peak times pretty easily. As far as DPS, the downside is that if you are a monk you are expected to pull which means you might not just be sitting there damaging stuff. The benefit is that monk weapons are really good and quite cheap compared to other classes when taken as a dmg/delay ratio. You'll see big numbers with a lot of the 2h staves. I've heard of people hitting into the 200's maybe more. I had an IFS for a bit and often doubled for 150's+ which was nice. Flying kick, pretty decent. I'm lvl 55 and I hit for 100+ a lot of times. The real benefit of a monk isn't the DPS, it's everything taken together, which is why so many people roll one.

You could also consider a warrior if you want a melee who does some big hits. Drop his health to below 40% (30%?), equip a 2h wep, and watch some big numbers. Don't know if I would recommend this if you want to be pure DPS, but it's something to consider if you want to see those numbers in the combat window.

[Wenuven]

Haha, well I am brand new to the server so I definitely wont be getting a rogue epic anytime soon. Bye bye e-peen!

You make some good points. I think pulling on a monk can sometimes be a good way to break up the monotony. Are there a lot of them on the server? Based on the forums it seems like a lot of people are rolling them, but I really dont see all that many on /who consistently.

[Spacebar]

Seems that most people always talk about a lot of monks and shaman. I think it's true, but there's a reason for it (namely, they are fun classes that are almost always wanted and are good at soloing).

I'd honestly just suggest leveling both a little just to see how your feel about them. The downside of a monk as a first character is that you need to keep your weight down to 14 stones (unless you are only DPSing) because weight affects AC for monks. Because of this, you need to be careful about gear selection and carrying cash (and items to sell). It's really rough starting as your first character knowing you need to save cash and destroying all your gold/silver/copper ever few pulls. But like I said, there are benefits and disadvantages to both. You can get some decent monk starter weapons for 200p or less, and I mean pretty good ones. I'm pretty sure there aren't any other melee classes who can get the dmg/dly/price ratios that a starting monk can. Honestly though, I don't know a lot about rogues so you might want some more input on them.

[Wenuven]

Yeah that would be a problem. I rolled a druid with the intent of it being a starter character on the server though. Im hoping that eventually I will be able to funnel some cash into gearing a melee alt, in which case monk weight wont be so bad. Looks like it's going to take a while, though! Getting started is tough!

[Tecmos Deception]

Considering rolling either a Rogue or Monk for a pure melee alt. It's only a small factor in my decision, but I'm curious how the DPS stacks up. I found a pretty good thread that lays out monk DPS by weapon but didnt really see anything similar for Rogues.

Part of the enjoyment of playing a melee DPS is seeing the big hit dmg numbers pop up in the chat window, so I'm wondering if anyone can give me some numbers to drool over! Something like:

Max BS at level 60 with decent weapons
Average hit
BS damage at lower levels

I'm also curious about Monk Kick damage if anyone has some data on that too!

Max backstab at 60 with epic is a bit over 500, I believe. However, starting at 55, you have a chance (like 40% per click of your BS button) to double backstab. Very sweet, very nice DPS boost, although the odds of seeing both BSs of a double hit for 500+ are like 1 in a million. Rogues also have a discipline that boosts the damage of their hits, potentially allowing for 2 1000+ backstabs at 60 with epic and full buffs. Average backstabs are probably like 300 though (or 600ish with disc).

Average hit is like.... I don't know exactly. Like 50? Rogue autoattack is more about hitting fast than hitting hard. 15/25 epic, 10-15 damage offhand without a damage bonus, only gonna be hitting for 80 or so highest I guess.

BS at lower levels is determined mostly by weapon really. I saw a 30-something rogue in OT backstab for nearly 400 last night (which half killed the kunark rhino he was fighting), and I recall my 20s rogue 2/3 killing stuff in mistmoore with a good backstab. There's a formula on the wiki for backstab damage based on your offensive skills, strength, and weapon damage: ((Offense + (Str up to 200) + (str over 200 / 5)) * WepDmg * Mult) / 100 ... "Mult" is (2 + backstab skill * .02)


Monk kicks don't hit nearly as hard as backstab. Flying kicks hit for like... 150 on the high end? They aren't impressive at all. Monks are almost totally about autoattack damage, whereas backstab is like 1/3 of a rogue's total DPS iirc.



If you want to see big hits, you could also consider warrior. They can get critical hits starting at a low level, and if you're swinging something like an oggok cleaver around those will be big. And then if you're berserk from low HP %, you'll get crippling blows. And you have a disc that makes all of their hits (for a short duration) into automatic crits (or crips if you're low hp!) Their average hits will be much higher depending on weapon too, when a rogue is basically a spam of small hits with the semi-infrequent 350+ backstab (BS min damage at 60 is 120 I think? But you see a lot more 120-200 BSs than 400+ BSs).

[koros]

Rogue max BS at 60 should be 553 w/ a 15 damage weapon, if it's coded correctly. Average Ragebringer hit should be ~41.

[Wenuven]

Thanks for the responses guys!! This is exactly what I'm looking for. For a while I thought I was pretty sure I was going to go monk, but the sound of 400+ BS sounds pretty exciting. I guess when I have a little cash for some starter items, I will just have to play both up to about level 20 or so and then decide.

As for warrior, I recently played a tank main on EQ Mac for a year, so I'm kind of done with that. hehe

[Cecily]

I pick this fight as good example of how the melee dps charts on raids usually look.

On raid fights lasting less than a minute: Rogues tend to deal 3-5k damage. Monks 2-4k. Warriors 1-3k.

Nexona in 39s, 27k @695dps
Cecily 4k @118dps (15.68%) : Rogue
Undisclosed 3k @85dps (12.22%) : Rogue
Kitai 3k @78dps (10.01%) : Rogue
Sericx 3k @73dps (9.36%) : Monk
Gollum 2k @61dps (8.52%) : Rogue
Aalpha 2k @60dps (8.21%) : Monk
Froobs 2k @57dps (7.8%) : Monk
Yapas 2k @51dps (7.2%) : Monk
Seltius 2k @57dps (6.92%) : Monk
Kental 2k @42dps (5.76%) : Warrior

/gui Trakanon in 34s, 31k @903dps :: Winsloe 6k @190dps (17.92%) :: Cecily 5k @174dps (17.51%) :: Cyrano 5k @144dps (15.44%) :: Niceboots 4k @120dps (12.9%) :: Flipadelphia 4k @127dps (12.41%) :: Shadooh 2k @58dps (6.24%) :: Naukan 1k @50dps (4.54%) :: Nalken 1k @44dps (3.87%) :: Sebilite juggernaut 1k @52dps (3.36%) :: Detoxx 1k @41dps (3.17%)

/gui Druushk in 54s, 39k @715dps :: Cecily 7k @135dps (18.51%) :: Gollum 5k @106dps (14.01%) :: Kautin 4k @89dps (11.54%) :: Detoxx 4k @80dps (10.94%) :: Dravingar 3k @62dps (8.74%) :: Merkk 3k @61dps (8.26%) :: Darkmannx 3k @64dps (8.26%) :: Luchino 3k @56dps (7.71%) :: Yibz 1k @22dps (3%) :: Ingramic 1k @20dps (2.63%)

[Wenuven]

Nice share! Thanks for the info!

[Yibz]

Yibz 1k @22dps (3%)

awww yissss

[Silent]

Looking through some of my parses on a 60 rogue with the best pre VP gear, I am seeing max backstabs of around 530-540(raid buffed max str/dex). With a hit ratio of about 70-72% on planar trash overall. I have leveled a rogue up seperately from this 60 rogue, and as with my monk I noticed at certain levels your damage and hit ratio jumps dramatically. Notably being 51, 57, and 60. In pvp at 60 its not uncommon to land backstabs for 400+, In fact I hit a 60 shaman last week for 464 306. Once a epic rogue hits 55, double backstab is godly and your dps jumps incredibly high especially when hasted to speed up backstab. I was able to keep nearly on par with some 60s when I hit 55, The only reason I didn't match them or do higher is due to level difference on fighting the mobs, I missed more.

Rogues have great dps, They are amazing in short fights when hasted you can easily outdps monks due to the backstab bursts. In a longer fight the monks(as log shown above) will eventually even out if not over take rogues depending on backstab single/double misses. Add in a decent double of lets say 300 300+ on a mob, with a round of auto attacks pierces for 60-90 x2 and a extra offhand hit for i dunno 60 dmg and it really adds up. I have logged a lot of fights for 60 monk and 60 rogue fighting everything except VP mobs/bosses. Self buffed and raid buffed. If there is any actual requests I can upload some screenshots of it ran through gamparser or possibly the entire log itself.