NEW 99 SERVER!!!! YESSS

[phacemeltar]

im watching the recording of the twitch stream from saturday now because i fell asleep 30 mins before it happened. i just found out about the new server and i wana say im excited.

i have an idea for a concept of server rules (im not the only one, im sure) and i was wondering where was a good place to post my idea. i came up with it myself, its not really based on classic EQ servers, but i think its a good idea. any ideas?

[Zuranthium]

There are a lot of good ideas for making a great server but unfortunately I think we need to stick with the core classic mechanics and it also needs to be relatively easy to implement.

As such, suggesting ideas is kinda pointless, because this is already perfect for what is realistically possible right now - http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=120312

[frantz256255]

when this new server wil lbe open ?

[phacemeltar]

zuran: i liked the idea of letting players choose their teams.

frantz: tba i think still

[Weekapaug]

There are a lot of good ideas for making a great server but unfortunately I think we need to stick with the core classic mechanics and it also needs to be relatively easy to implement.

As such, suggesting ideas is kinda pointless, because this is already perfect for what is realistically possible right now - http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=120312

Will never happen.

Actual SZ ruleset could, though. From what they were saying, though, they seem very into some things (like level limits and item loot) that would throw a SZ ruleset out of whack.

Make suggestions if you have any. They've asked for them and now is the time.

[Zuranthium]

zuran: i liked the idea of letting players choose their teams.

???

You pick Good, Nuetral, or Evil.

[SCB]

There are a lot of good ideas for making a great server but unfortunately I think we need to stick with the core classic mechanics and it also needs to be relatively easy to implement.

As such, suggesting ideas is kinda pointless, because this is already perfect for what is realistically possible right now - http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=120312

That's a server I'd really consider playing on.

[Zuranthium]

Yeah, tons of people have given their +1 to it. We need a clear vision right of what to do right now, so the devs know exactly what to do without too much "white noise" clouding the process, and that one blows everything else away.

[phacemeltar]

???

You pick Good, Nuetral, or Evil.

ive read a couple of descriptions of this idea, which seems like a common one. but i only think that its popular because its what people are used to. what i think would make for a successful new server would be something new.

i would like to suggest allowing people to choose which team they join at level 10 or so, because this way all the teams can have a stun-proof tank or a erudite cleric. maybe the teams could be location based, i.e. each team gets a city to call their own or maybe have some objective in order to capture a city. probably not classic, though.

[Glasken]

ive read a couple of descriptions of this idea, which seems like a common one. but i only think that its popular because its what people are used to. what i think would make for a successful new server would be something new.

i would like to suggest allowing people to choose which team they join at level 10 or so, because this way all the teams can have a stun-proof tank or a erudite cleric. maybe the teams could be location based, i.e. each team gets a city to call their own or maybe have some objective in order to capture a city. probably not classic, though.

Teams are alignment based from level 1. There will be some limitations due to this limitation. That is part of the allure of team pvp.

That and playing a Rallos Zek worshiping Wood Elf Warrior. Just to confuse the hell out of pvp combat with lighties.

[Fawqueue]

The new server has me torn. On one hand, I know that some of the unique alterations being proposed might help deter the one-sided nature of the live SZ server. On the other hand, this project is about preserving the classic experience, and I don't know that I'd want a server that's so drastically...emulated.

My biggest problem with emulated servers prior to p99 was always how different they were compared to the live experience. They just felt like some power-tripping man-child's playground. 10 times xp gain, free epics, ultra-bard speed....it was all just so un-EQ and it was not entertaining. So I can't decide whether I want to see the SZ rule set with no changes (which would appease my sense of immersion into the experience) or some modified-zombie SZ (which might prevent evil from just winning outright again).

[Tikku82]

Easy fix for OP evil team : Don't give them Wizards (no port for the team makes it even)

[Brut]

New servers always awesome, nothing quite like running around in cloth conspiring for a group to go acquire their warrior precious double Giant Snake Fangs.

[Millburn]

I'm pretty wet right now.

No seriously, spilled coffee everywhere.

[Swish]

Easy fix for OP evil team : Don't give them Wizards (no port for the team makes it even)

Someone mentioned white noise.... denying a team access to a class altogether? lol

[Weekapaug]

Teams are alignment based from level 1. There will be some limitations due to this limitation. That is part of the allure of team pvp.

That and playing a Rallos Zek worshiping Wood Elf Warrior. Just to confuse the hell out of pvp combat with lighties.

Yes this. Also it makes it so only evils get ogre warriors. I love that because it makes the min-maxers heads' spin and show's how ridiculous they are when guilds with gnome warriors are doing the same content they always insist you need ogres for. Under SZ rules every team gets every class, as they should, but not every team gets every race. And that's what makes it fun.

I appreciate your thread, Zuranthium, but please don't present it as some universally accepted ruleset that everyone likes. You had a few people who liked it but not everyone does. Other people have perfectly valid suggestions to make and now is the time to make them.

No experience manipulation. On a three teams pvp server there are different incentives to play on different teams no matter how lopsided one team gets, and you don't need skewed experince bonuses in addition. You might get an unintended consequence like one of the anticipated low pop teams winding up the lopsided team.

No manipulation of the classes. No FV gate hammer. No artificial level cap. None of any of this "EMU playground" crap. It's too heavyhanded and doesn't remotely resemble anything that was ever on a live PvP server. No one will play on a server like that.

Fix resists, go with a straightup SZ ruleset, with no level limits for pvp past the 1-6 one, training allowed, no item loot, and velious at release and it will be a winner. That's all you need.

[Vandy]

There are a lot of good ideas for making a great server but unfortunately I think we need to stick with the core classic mechanics and it also needs to be relatively easy to implement.

As such, suggesting ideas is kinda pointless, because this is already perfect for what is realistically possible right now - http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=120312

This is the rule set I'm supporting. With a few minor changes such as No Variance and a staggered spawn time so mobs can't be locked into a time slot. i.e Spawn Time of 3.2 days instead of 3 days will stagger the mob 4 hours every spawn.


If you support that ruleset and have ideas for it I suggest posting in that particular thread so that the devs know what you want.

[Something'Witty]

Not trying to be overtly negative, but what happens to the new teams PvP server if it turns into another red99 (AKA dead99)?

Maybe a third PvP server, and all your characters from Dead99 and Teams99 get put on hold waiting for the new PvP server to catch up progression wise, and after that your characters get transferred over? Hmm, I guess that could work if you are okay with your current characters basically being put on the shelf for months waiting for a transfer. Oh and don't forget, there will be a period of time between the announcement of the new server and its launch, so lets add the months of limbo waiting to find out what will actually happen to your current characters. Then, even after a transfer, the change in the ruleset has the potential to break up guilds / separate friends onto opposite teams or whatnot.

I really wish I had know that this might occur before investing time into my current dead99 characters.

[Swish]

Not trying to be overtly negative, but what happens to the new teams PvP server if it turns into another red99 (AKA dead99)?

Maybe a third PvP server, and all your characters from Dead99 and Teams99 get put on hold waiting for the new PvP server to catch up progression wise, and after that your characters get transferred over? Hmm, I guess that could work if you are okay with your current characters basically being put on the shelf for months waiting for a transfer. Oh and don't forget, there will be a period of time between the announcement of the new server and its launch, so lets add the months of limbo waiting to find out what will actually happen to your current characters. Then, even after a transfer, the change in the ruleset has the potential to break up guilds / separate friends onto opposite teams or whatnot.

I really wish I had know that this might occur before investing time into my current dead99 characters.

XP bonus on red at the moment, not sure you'll see that again when teams rules come in and there's a merge across. Arguably now is the best time to level on red.

[Swish]

is the reason i left red recently, teams is so bad, just fix the current problems and implement a few things needed on r99. sigh

Lies, I saw you 10 minutes ago :p

[Something'Witty]

XP bonus on red at the moment, not sure you'll see that again when teams rules come in and there's a merge across. Arguably now is the best time to level on red.

Yay, an xp bonus so you can level a character that is essentially stuck in purgatory for an unknown amount of time. In addition, my wife plays a Barb shm / WE druid and I play a DE chanter. Depending on the ruleset (most seem to favor SZ), we won't be able to play together. Yay again.

Maybe if I was a hardcore neckbeard I would get excited about leveling up characters in anticipation of server merge, but at the moment I am very disillusioned with p99.


just fix the current problems and implement a few things needed on r99. sigh

I totally agree, but the proverbial cat is out of the bag.

[eqravenprince]

I was excited about a new server, but then I found out it was pvp, blah. If it were PvE where you could only group with certain races that would be interesting.

[Weekapaug]

I was excited about a new server, but then I found out it was pvp, blah. If it were PvE where you could only group with certain races that would be interesting.

It's probably urban legend but I've always heard that in early development EQ was originally going to limit who could group with who based on certain teams, light and dark, whathave you. The languages were in place to go with this, and common tongue was added later when they scrapped it.

Actually, I think eliminating common tongue from a teams pvp server would be pretty cool. Probably a bit of a pain at first but eventually would just segregate the teams nicely and would eliminate cross-team communication to an extent, although not entirely if it was an SZ ruleset.

[Fawqueue]

Actually, I think eliminating common tongue from a teams pvp server would be pretty cool. Probably a bit of a pain at first but eventually would just segregate the teams nicely and would eliminate cross-team communication to an extent, although not entirely if it was an SZ ruleset.

The last time a game tried this we had to listen to kek kek kek constantly for years....

[Weekapaug]

I've never experienced it, so can't really say first hand, aside from DAoC, where there was no cross team communications outside of emotes. Actually, come to think of it didn't they eliminate cross team chat on the EQ2 pvp servers? Seem to remember that working pretty well, but it's been ages, so I'm a bit fuzzy.

The RP server live has (or had) no common tongue and it remains a popular server. Although you could probably chalk that up to "crap people will endure when they can buy all gear in the bazaar." Lol

[crkhobbit]

How come no one is asking the truly important question here?

P99 blue
P99 red
P99 ___? Purple? Orange? Magenta?

[Swish]

Yay, an xp bonus so you can level a character that is essentially stuck in purgatory for an unknown amount of time. In addition, my wife plays a Barb shm / WE druid and I play a DE chanter. Depending on the ruleset (most seem to favor SZ), we won't be able to play together. Yay again.

Maybe if I was a hardcore neckbeard I would get excited about leveling up characters in anticipation of server merge, but at the moment I am very disillusioned with p99.

If you're going to shut down an existing server they'll certainly be considering a merge for disenchanted R99 players.

[skipdog]

What a waste of time/effort for another server that will rarely break 100 pop. Sad really... :(

[Nirgon]

FFA server with no item loot

SZ server with item loot

Nilbog for fuck's sake bro, step in here

[Elderan]

FFA server with no item loot

SZ server with item loot

Nilbog for fuck's sake bro, step in here

The end result is the same, just a different means to get there.

The thing is R99 could add 150 population a night with some fixes which would take a month max to implement. However they want to add a whole new server with all new rules which will take 3-4 months to get running and take away nilbogs velious development time. Once this new T99 server goes live R99 will be dead as dead can get.

So what is the point?

[Brut]

The RP server live has (or had) no common tongue and it remains a popular server. Although you could probably chalk that up to "crap people will endure when they can buy all gear in the bazaar." Lol

It did have Common Tongue, you just started at 0 with it. Zoned into PoK and it was like any other server, except there was entry requirement of player having to sit around with someone spamming language hotkey.

Speaking of FV from live, make everything excluding epics/zone keys in new server tradable and insert item loot. Great success.

[Vexenu]

Fix resists, go with a straightup SZ ruleset, with no level limits for pvp past the 1-6 one, training allowed, no item loot, and velious at release and it will be a winner. That's all you need.

Far from being heavyhanded, that suggested ruleset is actually very light on changes, and most of them are behind the scenes. For example, leveling caps during the first month of the server don't change your in-game experience, they just prevent high level griefing during the critical early days of the server. A FV hammer does very little to change your gameplay as well, it just removes a major incentive for powergamers to roll Evil. Adding stats to the Good and Neutral teams is, again, a behind the scenes change, and is simply there to incentivize people to choose a non-Evil team.

These are very reasonable changes that are all purposeful and designed to correct the imbalance SZ had on live. The SZ ruleset was the best PvP ruleset, but it wasn't perfect. Also, it's 14 years later and we have to be much more careful conserving our player base. There will only be once chance to launch the server, hence it is critical that the ruleset chosen is one that maximizes fun and minimizes griefing during the server's first month, to get people invested in the server. Also, launching the server to coincide with Velious is also a bad idea. It would greatly weaken the server's launch because all returning players would go back to Blue where they already have geared and leveled characters. People who want to return for Velious aren't going to want to start over at level 1 to do so. The Teams server should be released pre-Velious so people can return and have some time to gear up in anticipation of Velious.

A vanilla SZ ruleset on a P1999 Teams server would be a total failure, and I say that as someone who loved SZ. Our game knowledge is too advanced at this point, and there are too many people from Red who would intentionally abuse the SZ ruleset to grief people off the server at the beginning. So really, the choice is not between some kind of modified ruleset and a classic SZ ruleset, the choice is between a modified ruleset and no server at all, because if Teams had vanilla SZ rules it would fail harder than Red by losing most of its potential new players shortly after launch.

[Swish]

What a waste of time/effort for another server that will rarely break 100 pop. Sad really... :(

A lot of mad about the new server not being a blue server I think.

[Elderan]

A lot of mad about the new server not being a blue server I think.

It is mixed really...

Will be a lot of pvp the first few months and then as a clear winning side is known most people will move over to it. Then it is a blue server with very limited pvp.

[Vexenu]

It is mixed really...

Will be a lot of pvp the first few months and then as a clear winning side is known most people will move over to it. Then it is a blue server with very limited pvp.

This just isn't true. If all three teams can get a decent number of players to the mid-high levels, there becomes very little incentive to stack on a single, hardcoded team, because then they'll just be cockblocking each other for mobs. You are underestimating the number of people from Blue who are sick to death of TMO monopolizing raid content and who would jump at the chance to compete directly for mob spawns.

If Evil team was made FFA, guilds could stack on that side, but there would still be tons of PvP infighting over mobs. And Evils griefing their own newbies would lead more people to join Neutral and Good, further restoring balance.

Basically, stop projecting your own behavior onto everyone else. Just because you are the type of person who would always re-roll to play on the winning team doesn't mean everyone else would. Believe it or not, some people actually seek out a challenge and enjoy being on the side of the underdog rather than running with the zerg.

[Nirgon]

If you make a more broken than VZTZ server with great content and broken pvp mechanics..

it will still do the same as the VZTZ servers.

We saw 600ish at red launch, and had the powers that be not bent to "ITS FINE LAUNCH IT" stupidity (ripe in the custom pvp server crowd), I don't see it being in the shape it is in right now.

A total no rules server will do away with favoritism claims.

A server with cross teaming is no place for item loot. An FFA server ... was :).

PS: Among other things

[Fawqueue]

The end result is the same, just a different means to get there.

The thing is R99 could add 150 population a night with some fixes which would take a month max to implement. However they want to add a whole new server with all new rules which will take 3-4 months to get running and take away nilbogs velious development time. Once this new T99 server goes live R99 will be dead as dead can get.

So what is the point?

Well there's a lot of people who think teams creates a better sense of community and more dynamic PvP. Both servers will have the issues that bothers current Red players fixed, so it will give PvP players an option on which style they like. If I'm wrong, Red will win and finally have population to support it. If I'm right, well then we'll all be glad they opened a better PvP server, and that's the point.

[Weekapaug]

Far from being heavyhanded, that suggested ruleset is actually very light on changes, and most of them are behind the scenes. For example, leveling caps during the first month of the server don't change your in-game experience, they just prevent high level griefing during the critical early days of the server. A FV hammer does very little to change your gameplay as well, it just removes a major incentive for powergamers to roll Evil. Adding stats to the Good and Neutral teams is, again, a behind the scenes change, and is simply there to incentivize people to choose a non-Evil team.

These are very reasonable changes that are all purposeful and designed to correct the imbalance SZ had on live. The SZ ruleset was the best PvP ruleset, but it wasn't perfect. Also, it's 14 years later and we have to be much more careful conserving our player base. There will only be once chance to launch the server, hence it is critical that the ruleset chosen is one that maximizes fun and minimizes griefing during the server's first month, to get people invested in the server. Also, launching the server to coincide with Velious is also a bad idea. It would greatly weaken the server's launch because all returning players would go back to Blue where they already have geared and leveled characters. People who want to return for Velious aren't going to want to start over at level 1 to do so. The Teams server should be released pre-Velious so people can return and have some time to gear up in anticipation of Velious.

A vanilla SZ ruleset on a P1999 Teams server would be a total failure, and I say that as someone who loved SZ. Our game knowledge is too advanced at this point, and there are too many people from Red who would intentionally abuse the SZ ruleset to grief people off the server at the beginning. So really, the choice is not between some kind of modified ruleset and a classic SZ ruleset, the choice is between a modified ruleset and no server at all, because if Teams had vanilla SZ rules it would fail harder than Red by losing most of its potential new players shortly after launch.

You are making tons of assumptions that have little basis in reality beyond your own conjecture. I didn't say coincide the relase with velious release on blue. I said release the server with Velious content on the server. That's when SZ live released and that content is needed to balance out Kunark. The content of this new server should be focused on what is best for this new server. Not marketing for Velious launch on blue. I'd love to have it ASAP as it sounds like you would, too, but they need to concentrate on what is best for this server overall, not people, myself included, itching for a new server.

He goes way too far with his changes and it's not even recognizable EQ. It's disney world.

[Champion_Standing]

The end result is the same, just a different means to get there.

The thing is R99 could add 150 population a night with some fixes which would take a month max to implement. However they want to add a whole new server with all new rules which will take 3-4 months to get running and take away nilbogs velious development time. Once this new T99 server goes live R99 will be dead as dead can get.

So what is the point?

R99 has so few players because of the people that play there.

My guess is that they are hoping this will bring back/lure in some blue players that are bored and some red players that can't stand the scum that infest red.

I have a feeling that they are going the change gameplay to change the server population and community route. But it won't work..the same shitbags that are on red will be on the new PvP server shitbagging it up and emptying out their server and whining about how they have nobody to play with on the forums.

[Weekapaug]

If you're going to shut down an existing server they'll certainly be considering a merge for disenchanted R99 players.

Have a question about that....The twitch thing was kind of long and I got distracted with other things at times....Heard them talking about merges and xfers but missed what was actually being said...

Are they going to do xfers from red99 to blue or to teams99? Or was it a merge with one or the other?

Kind of missed all of that.

[Elderan]

Well there's a lot of people who think teams creates a better sense of community and more dynamic PvP. Both servers will have the issues that bothers current Red players fixed, so it will give PvP players an option on which style they like. If I'm wrong, Red will win and finally have population to support it. If I'm right, well then we'll all be glad they opened a better PvP server, and that's the point.

There were much easier ways to do that on R99 though which would have brought in more people to an existing population.

In 6 months when the servers merge those people will be facing 50-70 fully VP geared characters for those same raid mobs, when they will barely have any Trakanon loot.

So in the end we get to the same place...

[Zuranthium]

Easy fix for OP evil team : Don't give them Wizards (no port for the team makes it even)

I'm ALLLLL for this. http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=119456

Unfortunately, I know they won't go that far.

Which is why this is the best we can realistically get - http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=120312

[Something'Witty]

In 6 months when the servers merge those people will be facing 50-70 fully VP geared characters for those same raid mobs, when they will barely have any Trakanon loot.

Don't forget the influx of plat / tradable items upon the merger.


So in the end we get to the same place...

You're only partly right. Friends / guild members from R99 will frequently end up on opposite teams. If they are hardcoded teams, then you are SOL. If teams are softcoded, then you end up getting all the BS that comes along with cross teaming (e.g., immy healing, watching your friend die to one of your "teammates," etc.). In my eyes it is a lose / lose situation.

[Weekapaug]

Nobody is going to play on some nerd mental maturbation of a server that is unrecognizable from real EQ. You guys are proposing candyland.

There are already EMU's (like all of them, pretty much) that have "creative" rulesets. Nobody really plays on them. If you couldn't use MQ on a lot of them, practically no one would. You know where the pops are? P99, because it's doing it's best to be like actual EQ.

[Vexenu]

Nobody is going to play on some nerd mental maturbation of a server that is unrecognizable from real EQ. You guys are proposing candyland.

There are already EMU's (like all of them, pretty much) that have "creative" rulesets. Nobody really plays on them. You know where the pops are? P99, because it's actual EQ, or is doing it's best to be, at least.

Like I said, it's either a custom ruleset (which need hardly be "candyland", rather very light modifications) or no server at all.

Any new server based on the existing vanilla EQ PvP rulesets (RZ, VZ/TZ or SZ) will fail very hard. A custom ruleset to address their weaknesses is needed.

If you're a "pure classic" fetishist for its own sake, that's your prerogative, but realize you're in the vast minority. Most people would rather have a server that's 99% classic and thrives than one that's 100% classic and a ghost town. And it's extremely disingenuous to compare a server with small, behind the scenes changes to emu's with tons of customized, game-altering changes.

[Elderan]

Don't forget the influx of plat / tradable items upon the merger.




You're only partly right. Friends / guild members from R99 will frequently end up on opposite teams. If they are hardcoded teams, then you are SOL. If teams are softcoded, then you end up getting all the BS that comes along with cross teaming (e.g., immy healing, watching your friend die to one of your "teammates," etc.). In my eyes it is a lose / lose situation.

We have been assured that when/if a transfer happens to the teams server we would be able to play with friends/guild. So my assumption is that we would be able to pick teams or some other option.

[Zuranthium]

Nobody is going to play on some nerd mental maturbation of a server that is unrecognizable from real EQ. You guys are proposing candyland.

There are already EMU's (like all of them, pretty much) that have "creative" rulesets. Nobody really plays on them. If you couldn't use MQ on a lot of them, practically no one would. You know where the pops are? P99, because it's doing it's best to be like actual EQ.

It's hardly unrecognizable from real EQ; exactly the opposite in fact. It's the realest EQ experience you can get, because the only way to actually get something like the "classic EQ experience" is to put in rules that shape the game towards what EQ in 1999 was actually like (and intended to be like). Just copying the code doesn't create the same result. The server has done a great job at making zones/monsters/items/skills like they were in Classic and that's the important framework. You don't need to strictly copy everything else. Trying to do so just hinders the game and makes it less like Classic Everquest, because people have already figured out the entire game and put it on a wiki, which massively changes how the game is played.

[Weekapaug]

Like I said, it's either a custom ruleset (which need hardly be "candyland", rather very light modifications) or no server at all.

Oh, really? No, there is going to be a teams based pvp server. All other details are still up for discussion. I missed the part of the twitch feed where you were put in charge of deciding that it would be "a custom ruleset or no server at all." It's happening, whether you like the ruleset or not, skippy.

Any new server based on the existing vanilla EQ PvP rulesets (RZ, VZ/TZ or SZ) will fail very hard. A custom ruleset to address their weaknesses is needed.

Broad sweeping statements based on zero fact, or with even evidence presented to back up your OPINION, which is all any of what you are saying is. Which is fine, you are entitled to it, but you and the other guy's matter-of-fact statements about this being the best, and that will fail blah blah are getting old. Stop presenting your opinon as fact, especially when you offer no examples as to why you think that. It's ridiculous.

Most people would rather have a server that's 99% classic and thrives than one that's 100% classic and a ghost town. And it's extremely disingenuous to compare a server with small, behind the scenes changes to emu's with tons of customized, game-altering changes.

First, you don't speak for "most people." You may think you do, you may say you do, but you don't.

Second, what you are proposing isn't 99% classic. You start inventing faction items, and FV hammers and all manner of candyland non-EQ content and it won't even be 75% classic.

Third, a server that is "100% classic" being a ghost town is, again, your own conjecture. Nothing more. SZ was an overwhelming success without broad sweeping changes to the game. Which is what you are proposing not, as you say, "behind the scenes" changes. You can keep repeating that over and over if you want, but it doesn't change the fact that you are proposing a cocked up ruleset server, making it just like every other EMU out there that nobody plays on.

It's ridiculous.

I say again, strict SZ ruleset...no pvp limit after level 6, allow training, with velious content, no item loot and it will be a fantastic server, because SZ was a fantastic server....The problems came with expansions that we won't be getting here. There's no need to cock it up with a bunch of little tweaks and this and that and the other designed to handhold everybody in an effort to avoid griefing. Griefing always happens in PvP, and every little ruleset change you make to prevent it only makes it worse. Leave the game open, and difficult, and allow training and let the players work it out. The only tweak I would consider a good idea, possibly, is allowing evil to pk itself....They nearly put that in on live, but didn't at the last min. And thats a big maybe.

That's MY opinion. Not facts, opinion. Based on observing first hand what happened with the actual successful SZ server on live. You are welcome to have yours, but please for all that is holy, stop stating your opinion as fact and making broad sweeping statements that are nothing more than conjecture on your part.

[Something'Witty]

We have been assured that when/if a transfer happens to the teams server we would be able to play with friends/guild. So my assumption is that we would be able to pick teams or some other option.

True, it was mentioned in the roundtable. Unfortunately, I guess I have become a bit of a cynic in light of recent events.

[Vexenu]

No point arguing with you. The ruleset I suggested simply corrects the problems with the vanilla SZ ruleset, and the devs have stated they have no interest in simply porting over any of the classic PvP rulesets. They are committed to making a Teams PvP server that can actually be successful at this point in time, and that requires at least a small bit of customization. If you don't think that's a good thing, that's your opinion, and you don't have to play there. Most people aren't so incredibly anal about sticking 100% to classic, however.

You seem to have a fetish for a totally classic experience, so nothing short of a time machine will ever satisfy you. Good luck with that.

[Vandy]

There is no 100% Classic server p99 included in that. If you want a 100% Classic server pretty sure you will need to invent a time machine and travel back to 1999.

[Swish]

This is the thing... you push for a definition of people's idea of "classic" and you get all kinds of stupid.

Start saying that you'll remove item linking, reduce the spell book to 5 per page (instead of 8) and stuff like that... and they start backtracking in a lot of cases.

What I think a lot of people mean by "classic" is where P99 is at the moment, but with a Sullon Zek ruleset that isn't customized.

If you're talking about blue classic, nothing has been announced about a new blue server and you're just feeding a load of white noise if you think that ideas you mention now will apply when Nilbog puts out a new beta server in 2015/2016/20-whatever.

[Weekapaug]

No point arguing with you. The ruleset I suggested simply corrects the problems with the vanilla SZ ruleset, and the devs have stated they have no interest in simply porting over any of the classic PvP rulesets. They are committed to making a Teams PvP server that can actually be successful at this point in time, and that requires at least a small bit of customization. If you don't think that's a good thing, that's your opinion, and you don't have to play there. Most people aren't so incredibly anal about sticking 100% to classic, however.

You seem to have a fetish for a totally classic experience, so nothing short of a time machine will ever satisfy you. Good luck with that.

You apparently missed my entire point.

First, it's not that SZ was classic per se. It's that it worked. SZ ruleset was largely a response to what had not worked on the earlier zeks. They tried narrow level limits earlier, for example. It got abused and people used it to grief. So on SZ they opened the whole range up and that, along with training, helped balance it out. No one is suggesting it was perfect, you still had griefing, and no matter what anyone tries there will still be griefing here, but actual history has shown that the more little tweaks and rules you put in, the more they get abused. This is not theory. This is what actually happened.

Second, it was wildly popular, even amongst people who had never played EQ PvP before. People played it. LOTS of people played it.

SZ did not suffer because of it's ruleset. I don't know where you get that from. SZ suffered from later expansion content that worked against the nature of that ruleset. The server was intended to have teams controlling areas of the map. They even had a status map on the main site showing who owned what at a particular time. It worked great at the time, and was a very fun part of playing there. This was, however, later undermined by the portals of luclin and the clicky books of pop.

Then there were external factors, like Luclin. SZ was released in the summer of '01 and Luclin got released a few months later. Lots of people went back to their blue servers because they had older blue mains to take into the new era. Simultaneously, like within a 1 or 2 week period, DAoC released, pretty much a PvP game that appealed to a lot of the same people that SZ did, so it took a hit from that, too. There was another much anticipated pvp game that came out around this time, but I forget the name and exactly when that was. But you see my point.

But the ruleset was completely sound. I played there for the first few months before heading off to DAoC, myself, and when I came back played my blue mains in Luclin, but while I was there it was fantastic. Somebody in another thread said they played there up to GoD and it was, largely, just fine. That was around the time EQ, in general, took a hit because GoD wasn't popular, and EQ2 and WoW released. There had never been an EQ before to last 14 years and people thought it was getting old, etc, at that point and a lot started moving on. That affected all servers.

Any problems SZ had were largely due to bad timing with later expansions and external factors. But the ruleset was, largely, sound.

My problem with going off to the races with customization is that's not EQ. That's EQ EMU's and you don't get all that many people who want to play them. P99 appeals to the broadest base of players because it is the closest thing to actual EQ we've seen yet.

Your mantra that this is some "classic fetish" on my part is ridiculous, but I guess you can keep repeating that along with everything else you keep repeating over and over and it will somehow become true. It's not. It's about SZ being the pvp server that worked and appealed to the most people. Exactly what we want with this new server.

[Zuranthium]

You apparently missed my entire point.

First, it's not that SZ was classic per se. It's that it worked.

No it didn't work. People loved the ruleset in theory, but in practice the Evil team simply dominates because the setup of them game favors them ridiculously. Some people still got enjoyment out of the server because of the "no rules" aspect, but on the whole SZ was not a success. It COULD be a success if the teams were actually more balanced and it was a real 3-way war.

[Weekapaug]

In theory? I actually played there as did many others and it was wildly successful. The most popular zek before or since. You?

Evils have some advantages but even with them having average levels higher than us (I played neutral) we generally held our own, but that's why velious is needed to offset kunark. Goods and Neutrals have a place to go, despite the early advantage evils get with Kunark. My guild moved there at 25 and immediately started factioning, for example. The server took a lot of hits later in population that caused it to homogenize down. As I get into in my previous post, a lot of the problems that SZ had were due to timing and external factors that all of EQ suffered from. Had nothing to do with the ruleset.

You seem to have this notion that you can somehow legislate perfect balance and it will never happen, no matter what you force down everyone's throat. DAoC is an entire game based on 3 way Realm versus Realm combat and no matter what little bonuses and incentives they gave underdog realms in that game, every server always had one dominant realm, another that gave a good fight, and one clear underdog. And that will happen here, too. And it will still be fun as long as populations hold up.

And that's the thing. If you start changing this and that and going crazy with every little thing in an effort to force team balance that you will never get, you are going to turn people off to the idea of playing there. And that's the worst possible problem a server like this can have.

[xexbis0]

I see nothing wrong with the way TZ/VZ went personally. Most people that are whining about TZ/VZ didn't actually play on TZ/VZ I'd wager.

[Vexenu]

Weekapaug, vanilla SZ just won't work at this point. At the very least, you'd have to address the prospect of dozens of hardcore Red players who would intentionally try to grief new players off the server during the first week. That is not conjecture. That is the stated intention of more than a handful of current Red players from their own mouths. They want to see the new server fail and would intentionally try to do so by abusing the shortcomings in any ruleset. With SZ rules, they'd simply poopsock past most players in levels, then camp newbie zones. It doesn't matter that they couldn't do this forever, only that they could for the first few weeks. If you allow them to do that, the server will die in its infancy because hundreds of potential new players will decide the server sucks and give up on it.

This is why I say that the choice is between a modified ruleset or no server, because while you technically could make a vanilla PvP teams server, it would quickly turn into the new Red (a wasteland).

[Hitpoint]

I agree with Nirgon here. This new server will be big at launch and just die like r99 did. Fix what you got before you go making new servers.

Agree.

[Zuranthium]

In theory? I actually played there as did many others and it was wildly successful. The most popular zek before or since. You?

If it was wildly successful it would have needed multiple servers to keep up with the demand of people who wanted that ruleset.

I played there as a Neut Druid and it underwhelmed me. The good team was mostly irrelevant and the evil team quickly locked down the most important game areas. Everything felt like an effort to just nuisance the evil team rather than a real back-and-forth war between opposing factions.

And that's the thing. If you start changing this and that and going crazy with every little thing in an effort to force team balance that you will never get, you are going to turn people off to the idea of playing there.

It's not "going crazy with every little thing", it's making the concept workable. Either way, the two things people care about most with regards to Classic Everquest are the game world itself and the adventure.

It's funny, you're the one who is actually going crazy about every little thing. You think Classic Everquest as it used to exist can't be improved upon, which is ignorant. Don't mix up bad changes to the game with positive changes. You can't just say "because other EQ Emu's mod their game so that it's far easier, this shows how any mods to the exact Classic EQ code never work".

[Weekapaug]

If it was wildly successful it would have needed multiple servers to keep up with the demand of people who wanted that ruleset.

I played there as a Neut Druid and it underwhelmed me. The good team was mostly irrelevant and the evil team quickly locked down the most important game areas. Everything felt like an effort to just nuisance the evil team rather than a real back-and-forth war between opposing factions.



It's not "going crazy with every little thing", it's making the concept workable. Either way, the two things people care about most with regards to Classic Everquest are the game world itself and the adventure.

It's funny, you're the one who is actually going crazy about every little thing. You think Classic Everquest as it used to exist can't be improved upon, which is ignorant. Don't mix up bad changes to the game with positive changes. You can't just say "because other EQ Emu's mod their game so that it's far easier, this shows how any mods to the exact Classic EQ code never work".

LOL

[Glasken]

If it was wildly successful it would have needed multiple servers to keep up with the demand of people who wanted that ruleset.

I played there as a Neut Druid and it underwhelmed me. The good team was mostly irrelevant and the evil team quickly locked down the most important game areas. Everything felt like an effort to just nuisance the evil team rather than a real back-and-forth war between opposing factions.



It's not "going crazy with every little thing", it's making the concept workable. Either way, the two things people care about most with regards to Classic Everquest are the game world itself and the adventure.

It's funny, you're the one who is actually going crazy about every little thing. You think Classic Everquest as it used to exist can't be improved upon, which is ignorant. Don't mix up bad changes to the game with positive changes. You can't just say "because other EQ Emu's mod their game so that it's far easier, this shows how any mods to the exact Classic EQ code never work".

I am with the 'Paug on this. Classic SZ ruleset. Evil has it easy, with most of the high level dungeons being near a base of their faction. That means N and G play on hard mode. If this intimidates you, don't play on such a server. If you like that challenge, jump in the deep end.

Location-based advantages apply to the classic continents only. Kunark is evenly split with access and Velious is a complete FFA. Plenty of opportunity for PVE content with your team. Plenty of opportunity for PVP with your team. Do not edit the rule set.

I never liked the compass anyway.

[Fawqueue]

The more I think about it, and see it discussed, the more I'm beginning to agree with 'Paug. I don't want really care about trying to achieve a perfect balance between all three teams. EverQuest isn't a perfect game to begin with, it's challenging in ways it sometimes doesn't need to be. But that's part of the charm.

Back on live they also had this mindset to 'improve' the experience. Developers thought aspects of the game created imbalance (like open world raiding) and decided that crazy new instancing idea might be a great way to alleviate the issue. I don't want to go down this road in the pursuit of making something I already enjoyed 'better'. Just give us the SZ rule set, and let us challenge ourselves to make it different this time. We are all aware that Evil ruled live years ago, but it doesn't have to happen that way again. Our blue server certainly has an identity of it's own that doesn't resemble many of our live servers. Just give us our playground and let us make it work.

[Vexenu]

I am with the 'Paug on this. Classic SZ ruleset. Evil has it easy, with most of the high level dungeons being near a base of their faction. That means N and G play on hard mode. If this intimidates you, don't play on such a server. If you like that challenge, jump in the deep end.

Location-based advantages apply to the classic continents only. Kunark is evenly split with access and Velious is a complete FFA. Plenty of opportunity for PVE content with your team. Plenty of opportunity for PVP with your team. Do not edit the rule set.

I never liked the compass anyway.

Under classic SZ rules it's more like Evil team is easy mode, Neutral is hard and Good is insane/suicidal.

Evil team has the best races and two of the most popular PvP classes. They also have natural zone control of the two best dungeons in classic (Guk & SolB). Kunark just makes this worse, and is far from evenly split as you say. Evil has two cities, while Good and Neutral share a single city. Evils also get the OT hammer to quickly mobilize to OT, while Good and Neutral have no quick way to access FV. Evils also have total control over Cabilis and all the surrounding zones and Kunark dungeons. This means that Evils can essentially level up in Kunark almost totally uncontested.

I know this, because I did it back in the day on my Iksar Monk. The only low level PvP I ever saw on Kunark was sporadic attacks from guys in <Honorbound>. There was almost no other Neutral/Good presence on Kunark at the sub-50 levels, so Evils could avoid PvP almost entirely while leveling due to controlling the entire continent of Kunark.

In contrast, Neutrals had a much harder time avoiding PvP. They would try to find less popular dungeons like Runnyeye to hang out in, but Evil SKs and Necros (due to Invis/IVU/FD) had a much easier time following them deep inside than any Neutral/Good classes could do. And Goods had it even worse, controlling nothing more than EF, Perma and QH in the most remote corner of Norrath.

Three simple changes would go a long way toward encouraging more team balance:

1) FFA PvP within the Evil team
2) Good and Neutral team stat/XP bonuses (+20, +10 respectively)
3) FV version of OT Hammer

These are relatively minor changes from the perspective of modifying the game and how it plays, but would have a big impact on helping to even the teams. Basically, you just have to give hardcore players a reason to NOT roll on the Evil team, because they literally hold every card otherwise. They have the best races, the easiest leveling/gearing and exclusive access to one of the most important items in the game (OT Hammer). Without modifications to address this glaring imbalance, I would expect the Evil team on a P1999 SZ server to be even more dominant than it was on live.

A ruleset that WORKS and promotes a populous and well-balanced server is more important than one that is 100% faithful to classic. The Devs agree with this, and have said they have no intention of porting over a vanilla RZ, TZ/VZ or SZ ruleset. So the teams server WILL have some kind of modified ruleset, the only question is, what will the modifications be?

Read more of my suggested ruleset here: http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=120312

[porigromus]

So which team setup would work the best? Deity Based? Race Based? Some other way you think would work? I am curious.

[Vexenu]

So which team setup would work the best? Deity Based? Race Based? Some other way you think would work? I am curious.

Deity based SZ teams are great from a roleplaying perspective and have a lot of potential from a practical perspective. They just need those fairly minor balancing chances I mentioned to avoid a repeat of Evil domination on Live. FFA PvP within the Evil team means that Evil PKs can prey on their fellow Evils, which weakens the Evil team a bit and denies them total safety on Kunark while leveling up. Having the Evil team FFA also makes it a less attractive choice for Blue players who will migrate to the server, making it much more likely they will roll Good or Newt to have the built-in protection of a hardcoded team while leveling.

Stat bonuses to Goods and Newts makes them more attractive to powergamers and brings them closer to parity to the Evil races. And a FV Hammer means that endgame focused guilds wouldn't be losing one of the most crucial raid mobilization items by going Good or Newt.

The goal is simply to incentivize a greater percentage of hardcore players to choose the Good and Newt teams than did on Live. If you could just ensure that each team had just one strong, endgame focused guild to rally around from the beginning, I think things would play out very well.

[Fawqueue]

Under classic SZ rules it's more like Evil team is easy mode, Neutral is hard and Good is insane/suicidal.

Evil team has the best races and two of the most popular PvP classes. They also have natural zone control of the two best dungeons in classic (Guk & SolB). Kunark just makes this worse, and is far from evenly split as you say. Evil has two cities, while Good and Neutral share a single city. Evils also get the OT hammer to quickly mobilize to OT, while Good and Neutral have no quick way to access FV. Evils also have total control over Cabilis and all the surrounding zones and Kunark dungeons. This means that Evils can essentially level up in Kunark almost totally uncontested.

I know this, because I did it back in the day on my Iksar Monk. The only low level PvP I ever saw on Kunark was sporadic attacks from guys in <Honorbound>. There was almost no other Neutral/Good presence on Kunark at the sub-50 levels, so Evils could avoid PvP almost entirely while leveling due to controlling the entire continent of Kunark.

In contrast, Neutrals had a much harder time avoiding PvP. They would try to find less popular dungeons like Runnyeye to hang out in, but Evil SKs and Necros (due to Invis/IVU/FD) had a much easier time following them deep inside than any Neutral/Good classes could do. And Goods had it even worse, controlling nothing more than EF, Perma and QH in the most remote corner of Norrath.

Three simple changes would go a long way toward encouraging more team balance:

1) FFA PvP within the Evil team
2) Good and Neutral team stat/XP bonuses (+20, +10 respectively)
3) FV version of OT Hammer

These are relatively minor changes from the perspective of modifying the game and how it plays, but would have a big impact on helping to even the teams. Basically, you just have to give hardcore players a reason to NOT roll on the Evil team, because they literally hold every card otherwise. They have the best races, the easiest leveling/gearing and exclusive access to one of the most important items in the game (OT Hammer). Without modifications to address this glaring imbalance, I would expect the Evil team on a P1999 SZ server to be even more dominant than it was on live.

A ruleset that WORKS and promotes a populous and well-balanced server is more important than one that is 100% faithful to classic. The Devs agree with this, and have said they have no intention of porting over a vanilla RZ, TZ/VZ or SZ ruleset. So the teams server WILL have some kind of modified ruleset, the only question is, what will the modifications be?

Read more of my suggested ruleset here: http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=120312

Yes, the territory that Evil can effectively cover is greater than the other two factions. But increased stats and a FV hammer will do nothing to change that, so both of those suggestions are really unnecessary. FFA within Evil is about the only thing that could maybe...and I mean maybe...have an impact here. But there's no guarantee they won't stop PvPing each other to wipe out the invading neutrals or goods, and then resume their in-fighting.

That being said, I wouldn't hate it entirely if it was SZ rules with evil on FFA. But the other two suggestions are not just un-classic, they aren't even EQ period. There's no FV hammer now or in the past, nor do good races have a natural +20 to all stats. That's the kind of change I don't want, not because it has to be purely classic or bust, but because it's the kind of nonsense I expect from some dude running an emulator for shits and giggles.

But if we're going to try any of that, I suppose I could see how the 'house divided' Evil strategy works out.

[Zuranthium]

There's no FV hammer now or in the past, nor do good races have a natural +20 to all stats. That's the kind of change I don't want, not because it has to be purely classic or bust, but because it's the kind of nonsense I expect from some dude running an emulator for shits and giggles.

Use some logic. These proposed changes obviously aren't for shits and giggles. They are carefully thought out and rather perfect.

[Clark]

New servers always awesome, nothing quite like running around in cloth conspiring for a group to go acquire their warrior precious double Giant Snake Fangs.

lol

[Fawqueue]

Use some logic. These proposed changes obviously aren't for shits and giggles. They are carefully thought out and rather perfect.

I'm not so sure that they are either. Will stat bonuses change the geography of the game and alleviate the issue with Evil having prime locations? Will a FV hammer mean that Good and Neutral don't share one city on Kunark while Evil has two? Will either of those make up for the fact that Evil has necros and shadowknights?

No. Evil will still have the same advantages regardless.

How about we give Good epics at level 20 and Neutral can have built-in SoW and a 50% chance to resist detrimental effects. That would certainly make them more attractive to power-gamers, and just as thought out as 'lets just throw stats at the problem'.

Like I said, I'm down to try the Evil is FFA idea. I don't know if it will help, but maybe competing guilds will form and turn a 3-team system into a 4+ battle for control. Modifying races, stats, classes, and creating new items I would prefer not to see though. I know not everyone feels this way but if the devs do go the route of creating custom modifications I guess we'll see how it goes.

[Weekapaug]

Yes, the territory that Evil can effectively cover is greater than the other two factions. But increased stats and a FV hammer will do nothing to change that, so both of those suggestions are really unnecessary. FFA within Evil is about the only thing that could maybe...and I mean maybe...have an impact here. But there's no guarantee they won't stop PvPing each other to wipe out the invading neutrals or goods, and then resume their in-fighting.

That being said, I wouldn't hate it entirely if it was SZ rules with evil on FFA. But the other two suggestions are not just un-classic, they aren't even EQ period. There's no FV hammer now or in the past, nor do good races have a natural +20 to all stats. That's the kind of change I don't want, not because it has to be purely classic or bust, but because it's the kind of nonsense I expect from some dude running an emulator for shits and giggles.

But if we're going to try any of that, I suppose I could see how the 'house divided' Evil strategy works out.

Bingo.

Classic EQ isn't even balanced in PvE, it's absurd to think you are going to force true teams balance with exp bonuses and a stupid fucking gate hammer.

Evil will be overplayed and have all of their advantages even with the ridiculous changes these guys want. The teams will not be balanced. Teams are never balanced in any PvP game. They are freaking obsessed with adding a FV hammer....an item that doesn't exist in EQ as if that will change something in Kunark. It won't. Kunark isn't even a concern if Velious content is available at launch.

Read thru their posts. "Avoid pvp" this. "Avoid pvp" that. They need to go play a game with battleground pvp and just leave this server to those of us who enjoy a challenge.

All of that said, as I said before, evil being FFA might not be a bad idea.y

[Weekapaug]

Use some logic. These proposed changes obviously aren't for shits and giggles. They are carefully thought out and rather perfect.

LOL

Do you work for The Ministry of Propoganda for a South American dictator or something?

Just making matter of fact statements doesn't make them so. You do it in every fucking thread. "This is the most popular ruleset for the new server" blah blah blah.

HORSESHIT. It's just what you want.

Trying to discuss this stuff with this guy is like trying to discuss the problems with socialism with a socialist. Or evolution with a religious fundementalist. They have an answer for everything yet their answers contain no substance. Just matter of fact statements that attempt to pass off opinion as fact.

Your changes are idiotic.

[Glasken]

Evil in-fighting may help the transition for current R99 players as well once the servers are merged (if they keep the team model). Want to pvp everyone? Evil side. Want to team play? Maybe team evil isnt for you.

The more I consider that idea the more I like it.


After re-watching the twitch vid I'd also like to throw around my opinion about "just trying some things" like various item loots or other experiments:

No.

If there are experiments to be slung about, open a test server where exp bonuses are crazy, server wipes happen regularly, and the rules change every time. Once you have the answers you want, then open the real thing. I am not a fan of the whole "lets try some form of item loot, even if its just for a short while" thought. Poor planning. Implement your desired version of item loot (none also being an option) and leave it in place. Wishy-washy rules make for a less trusting environment.


On the subject of team balance questions:

Everquest is a hugly enjoyable game. Why else would we all be here? Part of that enjoyment comes from the games imbalance. Some classes or races are harder to play than others. A SZ ruleset takes that to extreme, and that is why I like it. Do not add superfluous items for a crutch. Do not sling "any race and class for any team" all over the walls just for a fresh coat of paint. Guilds can -and have on live- pwned the highest level content with gnome warriors.

Project 1999 is about playing the game as it existed in its hayday. Is it perfect? No. Neither is the game itself. And we all still love it. There will never be a single pvp server that fits everyone, not even after a trip to the chop shop. My request of our beloved devs is to pick a ruleset and implement it to the fullest ability.


On "I want the new server MY way":

Maybe this is more your speed...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fndeDfaWCg

Go play on stormhaven, EZ, or any of the other EMU servers you have access to. They have plenty of custom content along side old world content so you can pick your own adventure. I think most of us on P99, red or blue, are here for EQ as it was, not how we want(ed) it to be.

[Vexenu]

If you can't understand why an FV hammer (or something like it) is needed to promote parity between the teams, then you simply don't understand this game/SZ rules well enough to be making serious balance suggestions.

Writing the OT hammer off as "a stupid fucking gate hammer" pretty much throws your credibility out the window. It's the only item of its type in the game and allows guilds to mobilize a large force anywhere in Norrath in minutes. If you can't understand how much of an enormous advantage this is in both PvE and PvP, then I don't know what to tell you.

Further, comparing stat bonuses to "epics at level 20" and "built in SoW" is completely laughable. Again, you have zero credibility when you make such an absurd comparison. The purpose is not to make Good and Neutral characters overpowered, it's simply to attract a larger number of dedicated players to those teams. Under vanilla SZ rules, the advantages of the Evil team are magnified because the most serious players tend to exploit every advantage they can get and hence roll Evil, so the Evil team winds up not only with the most built-in advantages, but with the most dedicated and hardcore players.

Neither of you have demonstrated any real understanding of the reasons why the Evil team dominated on SZ, and why it would dominate just as much if not more on a P1999 SZ server. Either that, or you simply don't care, and are more interested in 100% classic rules than a thriving server. That's your prerogative, but puts you in the extreme minority, and is a position not even shared by the Devs.

I'm also lol at a guy who compares me to a raging socialist or a religious fundamentalist at the same time he's flipping out about slight deviations from his precious "classic", which is apparently his version of the one true faith. More than a little bit of projection going on there, methinks.

[Swish]

All these "new server" threads belong in the PvP forum, because its a new PvP server etc etc.

I think we've reached a plateau with everyone and their 2-boxing dog's ideas on what should be included to make it successful. I'm sure Nilbog won't have read every single message, and if he has... he's got a shit ton of patience or spare time :p

[Zuranthium]

Just making matter of fact statements doesn't make them so. You do it in every fucking thread. "This is the most popular ruleset for the new server" blah blah blah.

HORSESHIT. It's just what you want.

Nope, it's not just what I want. If you go through all of the various threads, more people have said "I would definitely play with that ruleset" than any other proposed ruleset. What I ideally want is more complex and non-classic than Vex's proposal, but I'm fully aware that his vision would be easier to implement and better for a new server at this point in time.

Also, saying my posts are like empty religious propaganda is laughable; you never reply to any of the points being made. You just blindly keep repeating "no that won't ever work". You don't understand game design, nor game balance. You're just mad about the server not being exactly classic, out of some kind of unfounded fear that it will be like a random Emu.

[Nirgon]

Nilbog is a saint

[Fawqueue]

If you can't understand why an FV hammer (or something like it) is needed to promote parity between the teams, then you simply don't understand this game/SZ rules well enough to be making serious balance suggestions.

Writing the OT hammer off as "a stupid fucking gate hammer" pretty much throws your credibility out the window. It's the only item of its type in the game and allows guilds to mobilize a large force anywhere in Norrath in minutes. If you can't understand how much of an enormous advantage this is in both PvE and PvP, then I don't know what to tell you.

Further, comparing stat bonuses to "epics at level 20" and "built in SoW" is completely laughable. Again, you have zero credibility when you make such an absurd comparison. The purpose is not to make Good and Neutral characters overpowered, it's simply to attract a larger number of dedicated players to those teams. Under vanilla SZ rules, the advantages of the Evil team are magnified because the most serious players tend to exploit every advantage they can get and hence roll Evil, so the Evil team winds up not only with the most built-in advantages, but with the most dedicated and hardcore players.

Neither of you have demonstrated any real understanding of the reasons why the Evil team dominated on SZ, and why it would dominate just as much if not more on a P1999 SZ server. Either that, or you simply don't care, and are more interested in 100% classic rules than a thriving server. That's your prerogative, but puts you in the extreme minority, and is a position not even shared by the Devs.

I'm also lol at a guy who compares me to a raging socialist or a religious fundamentalist at the same time he's flipping out about slight deviations from his precious "classic", which is apparently his version of the one true faith. More than a little bit of projection going on there, methinks.

It's not that I don't care, but I don't think that unique customizations will make for a thriving server either. This thread should prove that to you....a lot of us want to play, but don't want changes. My comment about epics and built-in SoW was meant to be absurd, just like I think that giving all good races +20 to each stat and bonus resists is absurd. If there really has to be customized mods to Good and Evil, I'm sure we could come up with something less intrusive than slapping a static stat boost across the board and calling it a day. It doesn't make me any more attracted to those races than I would be already.

I've been around a long time, and I see far more "Hi, I'm new" stories about how people were unsatisfied with how different all the other available versions of EQ are and were thrilled to find this close-as-we-can-get representation of the classic experience. I can't remember even one where they mentioned mostly liking how classic things are here, but hoping we could make completely custom modifications to the server in the name of fairness. And that's why I'm throwing my two cents in, representing the voice of those players who don't mind the imbalance, or the challenge, that the classic SZ rule set creates.

Now before you read this and get your 'I gotta prove my way is right' response written out, I want to clarify that I'm not trying to say your ideas are bad for everyone. Some people don't care as much if things aren't 100% classic and are totally behind your proposed changes. I just happen to be in the other crowd that prefers to keep the game as intact as possible, flaws and all. Maybe the devs will implement these changes (or others) and enough people will love them and the server will work fine. There's no way to know until it happens. So don't take my responses as personal attacks of any sort, because they aren't meant to be.

[Glasken]

Neither of you have demonstrated any real understanding of the reasons why the Evil team dominated on SZ, and why it would dominate just as much if not more on a P1999 SZ server. Either that, or you simply don't care, and are more interested in 100% classic rules than a thriving server. That's your prerogative, but puts you in the extreme minority, and is a position not even shared by the Devs.




A classic experience is the reason a lot of the people on this server are here. Or at least as classic as possible. That includes imbalances.

My argument to your suggestions for this new team server is that altering items and stats in favor of a more balanced game retract from the goal of P99 - a classic eq experience. It isn't perfect yet, but it is damn close.

Regardless of the stats of this new server, I will be giving it a go. On the off chance that your suggestions are taken to heart by the devs, then I will absolutely make use of them, and enjoy every moment of my handouts as a Brell worshiping gnome warrior with my shiny new FV Gate Hammer. The name of the server can be in pink instead of red, and following its description will be the following:

http://www.hasbro.com/common/productimages/en_US/6d2dcd965056900b107a9fbb1e61f49e/6D35A75F5056900B10E39D566A5A4906.jpg



'Gotta agree with Swish too. A lot of ideas have already been posted, criticized, endorsed ect... Lets all have a sit back and see what gets cooked up for us to enjoy next.


For the record I loved candyland.

[Fawqueue]

For the record I loved candyland.

Agreed, that's one IP that is due for an MMO.

[Deli]

Project 1999 is about playing the game as it existed in its hayday. Is it perfect? No. Neither is the game itself. And we all still love it. There will never be a single pvp server that fits everyone, not even after a trip to the chop shop.

I think most of us on P99, red or blue, are here for EQ as it was, not how we want(ed) it to be.

https://d37wxxhohlp07s.cloudfront.net/s3_images/869702/joker_clap.gif?1362950292

[Weekapaug]

Also, saying my posts are like empty religious propaganda is laughable; you never reply to any of the points being made. You just blindly keep repeating "no that won't ever work". You don't understand game design, nor game balance. You're just mad about the server not being exactly classic, out of some kind of unfounded fear that it will be like a random Emu.

I have replied, repeatedly, in detail to everything you two have proposed. You just don't like the replies. You are so busy repeating your little mantras about how great your idiotic proposals that you apparently don't read anything anyone has said here. I did, however, skip replying to the other guys thing about trying to tweak the ruleset to keep the r99 griefers from doing whatever....I'm a freaking bluebie, but if pvp on the pvp server is what you two are concerned with then I'll let the pathetic retardation of that stand on it's own. lol You numbskulls actually think you are going to keep people from greifing on a pvp server and it's ridiculous. What's even more ridiculous is that you bandy this bullshit about with a straight face in these matter-of-fact statements of yours.

You can't force team balance. It will not happen. Ever. Not with your ridiculous proposal, his, or any other. Team balance NEVER exists in any game that has PvP teams in any semblence of an open world. It's not that I don't understand what you are trying to do. It's that I understand that what you are trying to do won't work. From first hand experience in every pvp game I've ever played, including EQ.

With every little tweak that goes in with a ruleset there is at least one other, usually more, unintended consequece that usually just makes things worse. And with EQ, specificly, you take it further from the actual game, making people less likely to want to play it. I don't know how many other ways I can fucking it explain it to you before you will finally grasp that. Players simply aren't going to be corralled into what it is that you want with this, and they aren't going to play a server that has customization up the wazoo. Even in games where they tweak things dynamicly over time, it STILL never works out with balanced teams. NEVER. Just the fact that you can't seem get your head around that shows how clueless you are.

I say again, go play a game that has instanced battlegrounds where blubie poons who want to be handheld through conditional pvp will be happy. Leave this server to those of us who enjoy real EQ, not masturbated EMU rulesets, and a challenge.

[Vexenu]

I have replied, repeatedly, in detail to everything you two have proposed. You just don't like the replies. You are so busy repeating your little mantras about how great your idiotic proposals that you apparently don't read anything anyone has said here. I did, however, skip replying to the other guys thing about trying to tweak the ruleset to keep the r99 griefers from doing whatever....I'm a freaking bluebie, but if pvp on the pvp server is what you two are concerned with then I'll let the pathetic retardation of that stand on it's own. lol You numbskulls actually think you are going to keep people from greifing on a pvp server and it's ridiculous. What's even more ridiculous is that you bandy this bullshit about with a straight face in these matter-of-fact statements of yours.

You can't force team balance. It will not happen. Ever. Not with your ridiculous proposal, his, or any other. Team balance NEVER exists in any game that has PvP teams in any semblence of an open world. It's not that I don't understand what you are trying to do. It's that I understand that what you are trying to do won't work. From first hand experience in every pvp game I've ever played, including EQ.

With every little tweak that goes in with a ruleset there is at least one other, usually more, unintended consequece that usually just makes things worse. And with EQ, specificly, you take it further from the actual game, making people less likely to want to play it. I don't know how many other ways I can fucking it explain it to you before you will finally grasp that. Players simply aren't going to be corralled into what it is that you want with this, and they aren't going to play a server that has customization up the wazoo. Even in games where they tweak things dynamicly over time, it STILL never works out with balanced teams. NEVER. Just the fact that you can't seem get your head around that shows how clueless you are.

I say again, go play a game that has instanced battlegrounds where blubie poons who want to be handheld through conditional pvp will be happy. Leave this server to those of us who enjoy real EQ, not masturbated EMU rulesets, and a challenge.
"Customization up the wazoo" is the inclusion of ONE additional item to the game, which is essentially identical to an existing item and simply made available to players on all teams?

You can't be serious. You are honestly an extremely silly and angry person. I just can't take you seriously, and can't imagine anyone else who reads your posts can either.

The simple fact that you're oblivious to the need to protect the new server from intentional Red player griefing means you're completely out to lunch. Then you also have this bizarre view that a deeply flawed ruleset should be replicated exactly and that no human being could possibly improve on it, despite the devs clearly stating their intention to implement some kind of custom ruleset. Please, just stop posting on this topic. You have nothing to offer beyond your blind adherence to classic at all costs. You would literally be better off just posting "NOT CLASSIC" in giant font, because at least then you wouldn't come across as so angry and unhinged.

Good luck resolving whatever ongoing personal problems are clearly bleeding over into your posting.

[Bohab]

imo save the resources for a 2nd (non-fresh) blue transfer server for when Velious hits and all these fully geared quitters come back to the game for new pixels bloating the population.

[Weekapaug]

The simple fact that you are so oblivious that you think you CAN means YOU'RE out to lunch. There will always be greifing on every PvP server no matter what you try to do to prevent it. The teams are there to balance it out.

I know this is going to come as a shock to you fellas, but getting to pvp is why people play on a pvp server, even if it's unbalanced. It's rarely, if ever, balanced. Some of the best fights are fending off higher levels who think they are going to bag you easy. I've experienced that in both EQ and EQ2 pvp as well as in rvr in DAoC. Arbitrary level limit caps that you dreampt up aren't needed. Even at the same level, classes are so out of balance, in 1 vs 1 pvp one player often has a decisive advantage anyway. That's all part of the challenge of playing EQ pvp.

No, just angry with you two. You guys set me off when you started making blanket matter-of-fact statements in this and every other thread about how "perfect" your rulesets are, how "popular" they are, etc. It's ridiculous. And as someone who has actually played EQ PvP, warts and all, and loved it, I find it offensive.

[phacemeltar]

No, just angry with you two. You guys set me off when you started making blanket matter-of-fact statements in this and every other thread about how "perfect" your rulesets are, how "popular" they are, etc. It's ridiculous.

yea they are some nubs, i made this thread to post my idea. now its turned into these guys trying to recreate an extinct server. IMO the new 99 server should not be a clone of an old server, but something new.

[Weekapaug]

Oh, and do a search here on these forums or any other EQ forums you can find and see how many people found the SZ ruleset to be "deeply flawed."

Because you two are the first I've ever seen. I, frankly, have a hard time believing either of you even played there.

[Deli]

Someone please remind me what the hammer even is?

[HippoNipple]

It's probably urban legend but I've always heard that in early development EQ was originally going to limit who could group with who based on certain teams, light and dark, whathave you. The languages were in place to go with this, and common tongue was added later when they scrapped it.



Sounds like World of Warcraft.

[HippoNipple]

I read a couple posts and Vexenu is correct. Also, this server starts without Kunark so Velious will be far out.

OT Hammer is very important.

Allowing the evil team to attack each other is something that would help. It will allow for the FFA players to enjoy the server while giving people that are scared to join a PvP server with no friends an option (neutral/good).

The bonus to stats at the beginning I am on the fence about. The server will probably be deity focused so races have a choice of what team to be on. If you gave bonuses to everyone except ogres/trolls you would have classes overpowered in different areas like barbarian rogues or erudite casters. If it was bonuses to just neutral/good deity then the dark elf casters would be gimped.

[Vexenu]

Oh, and do a search here on these forums or any other EQ forums you can find and see how many people found the SZ ruleset to be "deeply flawed."

Because you two are the first I've ever seen. I, frankly, have a hard time believing either of you even played there.

I played on SZ as Spinfusor, Iksar Monk of <Da Bashin' Iggles>, and anyone who played on SZ during the classic era would most likely remember that name. I was the only Monk ranked on the PvP leaderboards for quite awhile and got most of those kills solo and in my 40s, without the help of an epic, Fungi or a T-staff. I say that not to brag (truly that would be a rather pathetic thing to brag about all these years later) but to simply establish that I have a pretty strong understanding of EQ PvP. I would prefer my ideas stand on their own merit rather than attempt to impress people with my EQ PvP e-credentials from over a decade ago, but since you doubt my bona fides, there you go.

And yes, as much as I enjoyed SZ I must admit the ruleset was deeply flawed. The server suffered due to the lack of team balance. The entire Good team was basically a running joke to the rest of the server, and Neutrals faced significant disadvantages to the power of the Evil team. As much fun as SZ was, it could have been better, and my hope is that any new server that attempted to resurrect SZ would make the small adjustments needed to improve SZ's rules.

And really, I'm not claiming my suggested ruleset is perfect. But I've certainly put a lot of thought into it. I didn't just pull it out of my ass one day. I didn't just decided to propose putting in an FV hammer because I thought it sounded cool, and that goes for the other changes I proposed as well. They are all there for one, simple reason: to attempt to create a more balanced distribution among the teams, measuring both by total team population and among the subset of hardcore, endgame focused players.

There is only one chance to launch a new PvP Teams server, so the devs have to get it right. Red 99 suffered an awful launch made worse by organized griefing, and the server never recovered. We're in a different environment now than we were when SZ was launched on live. Using the same formula from back in the day would produce different results today due to much greater player knowledge, free accounts, etc... In order to produce even something as good as classic SZ, you would therefore need some small degree of modifications. The vanilla ruleset would simply have its weaknesses exploited by griefers and powergamers, and the server would fail hard. I don't want to see that happen, because with a few simple tweaks, the SZ ruleset could be revived to produce an awesome server all these years later.

[Wulvie]

ETA for launch? ballpark?

[Zuranthium]

If it was bonuses to just neutral/good deity then the dark elf casters would be gimped.

That's the point, because the evil team already has such huge advantages in terms of zone control. Although gimped is not the correct word at all, they would just have a bit lower stats in comparison.

[phacemeltar]

ETA for launch? ballpark?

every time someone asks this question, the release is pushed back a week

[porigromus]

Evil in-fighting may help the transition for current R99 players as well once the servers are merged (if they keep the team model). Want to pvp everyone? Evil side. Want to team play? Maybe team evil isnt for you.

The more I consider that idea the more I like it.


After re-watching the twitch vid I'd also like to throw around my opinion about "just trying some things" like various item loots or other experiments:

No.

If there are experiments to be slung about, open a test server where exp bonuses are crazy, server wipes happen regularly, and the rules change every time. Once you have the answers you want, then open the real thing. I am not a fan of the whole "lets try some form of item loot, even if its just for a short while" thought. Poor planning. Implement your desired version of item loot (none also being an option) and leave it in place. Wishy-washy rules make for a less trusting environment.


On the subject of team balance questions:

Everquest is a hugly enjoyable game. Why else would we all be here? Part of that enjoyment comes from the games imbalance. Some classes or races are harder to play than others. A SZ ruleset takes that to extreme, and that is why I like it. Do not add superfluous items for a crutch. Do not sling "any race and class for any team" all over the walls just for a fresh coat of paint. Guilds can -and have on live- pwned the highest level content with gnome warriors.

Project 1999 is about playing the game as it existed in its hayday. Is it perfect? No. Neither is the game itself. And we all still love it. There will never be a single pvp server that fits everyone, not even after a trip to the chop shop. My request of our beloved devs is to pick a ruleset and implement it to the fullest ability.


On "I want the new server MY way":

Maybe this is more your speed...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fndeDfaWCg

Go play on stormhaven, EZ, or any of the other EMU servers you have access to. They have plenty of custom content along side old world content so you can pick your own adventure. I think most of us on P99, red or blue, are here for EQ as it was, not how we want(ed) it to be.

This!

[GreyPowerVan]

ETA for launch? ballpark?

2019

[Rec]

Are we there yet papa smurf

[Weekapaug]

I played on SZ as Spinfusor, Iksar Monk of <Da Bashin' Iggles>, and anyone who played on SZ during the classic era would most likely remember that name. I was the only Monk ranked on the PvP leaderboards for quite awhile and got most of those kills solo and in my 40s, without the help of an epic, Fungi or a T-staff. I say that not to brag (truly that would be a rather pathetic thing to brag about all these years later) but to simply establish that I have a pretty strong understanding of EQ PvP. I would prefer my ideas stand on their own merit rather than attempt to impress people with my EQ PvP e-credentials from over a decade ago, but since you doubt my bona fides, there you go.

And yes, as much as I enjoyed SZ I must admit the ruleset was deeply flawed. The server suffered due to the lack of team balance. The entire Good team was basically a running joke to the rest of the server, and Neutrals faced significant disadvantages to the power of the Evil team. As much fun as SZ was, it could have been better, and my hope is that any new server that attempted to resurrect SZ would make the small adjustments needed to improve SZ's rules.

And really, I'm not claiming my suggested ruleset is perfect. But I've certainly put a lot of thought into it. I didn't just pull it out of my ass one day. I didn't just decided to propose putting in an FV hammer because I thought it sounded cool, and that goes for the other changes I proposed as well. They are all there for one, simple reason: to attempt to create a more balanced distribution among the teams, measuring both by total team population and among the subset of hardcore, endgame focused players.

There is only one chance to launch a new PvP Teams server, so the devs have to get it right. Red 99 suffered an awful launch made worse by organized griefing, and the server never recovered. We're in a different environment now than we were when SZ was launched on live. Using the same formula from back in the day would produce different results today due to much greater player knowledge, free accounts, etc... In order to produce even something as good as classic SZ, you would therefore need some small degree of modifications. The vanilla ruleset would simply have its weaknesses exploited by griefers and powergamers, and the server would fail hard. I don't want to see that happen, because with a few simple tweaks, the SZ ruleset could be revived to produce an awesome server all these years later.

Fair enough. I disagree about griefing, though...There's really nothing that can be done about it. If people want to grief, they will always find a way, and the more little tweaks you put in, the more they get abused by those people. History has shown this over and over. I direct you to the antics of Fansy the bard, for example. Besides being really funny at the time, that's the shining example of how the best way to offset griefing is to make everything as open as possible and let the players work it out....They changed the ruleset to allow PKing under 6 if they were outside of a newbie zone because Fansy demonstrated that even that one simple rule, intended to avoid griefing, can get abused. And they offset it with making pvp more open, not less. Training helps a lot as does no level limits on pvp. That's something SZ got spot on. In fact, I can't really imagine EQ pvp without training being allowed, personally. War is about using the environment to your advantage and, a lot of times, it's unavoidable anyway. But I digress...I wouldn't sweat the griefers as much as when this thing is released....As excited as people are about this server, myself included, if it comes before velious, it's going to lose pops once velious comes out because people will go back to blue for that. There's really no getting around that.

And you make a lot of assumptions about griefers and powergamers being one and the same. The whole point of teams is so the powergamers on your own team offset the griefers of the other team. Trying to clamp everything down with artificial level limits does very little to counter that and just means that the single griefer who wants to gank lowbies just has to bring another one with him to accomplish the same thing. It's EQ...There is very little in this game that can't be overcome by just bringing more people. All you do is potentially bore people who have the time or just want to level fast (and on these servers there are LOTS of those) so that they leave and find something else to do. Or just don't bother. While the griefers still grief. Again, for every well intended "fix" you put in, there is at least another unintended consequece that makes the whole thing even lamer and usually the fix does nothing to fix anything, just makes it worse. Not to mention, takes it even further away from real EQ, thus turning away a whole lot of people who might otherwise be into playing.

I was pondering this a bit more last night and it occurred to me that a lot of these problems go away if you just make it a straightup light vs dark 2 team ruleset. I prefer 3 teams, myself, as I'm sure most do, but if there was any problem with SZ that was, arguably, it. Evil will most likely be the most populated team, so not watering down the two opposing teams, which are basicly the same anyway, could go a long way to offsetting that. The only people that really effects are those who actually enjoy the challenge of playing the underdog goods.

Not my personal preference but, yeah, that's one simple, open, basic ruleset deviation from SZ that might go a long way towards offsetting the evil advantages. Maybe throw evil FFA in there as well. And you don't bastardize the entire game into something unrecognizable from real EQ in the process.

[Weekapaug]

Are we there yet papa smurf

I've heard 3-4 months from now and I've also heard no ETA.

Heard no mention of it during the twitch thing, but I was in and out of the room a lot and missed parts.

[Fawqueue]

I was pondering this a bit more last night and it occurred to me that a lot of these problems go away if you just make it a straightup light vs dark 2 team ruleset. I prefer 3 teams, myself, as I'm sure most do, but if there was any problem with SZ that was, arguably, it. Evil will most likely be the most populated team, so not watering down the two opposing teams, which are basicly the same anyway, could go a long way to offsetting that. The only people that really effects are those who actually enjoy the challenge of playing the underdog goods.

Not my personal preference but, yeah, that's one simple, open, basic ruleset deviation from SZ that might go a long way towards offsetting the evil advantages. Maybe throw evil FFA in there as well. And you don't bastardize the entire game into something unrecognizable from real EQ in the process.

As much as I hate the idea of changes (as I've said already) from the familiar formula we had on live, this is probably the one I think I could tolerate the most. If I really had to see the devs do something custom, it would be to somehow allow Neutral and Good to combine forces. Rolling them into one team could be a suggestion, but even just hardcoding teams for Evil and allowing Neutral and Good to group/guild might help. All it would take is some coordination to really challenge Evil, and if they decided not to...well then they could still PvP with each other.

But again, I'd prefer one small change to how teams interact (coding them together, FFA on evil, whatever) than hard leveling caps, customized starting stats, creating items that don't currently exist, or what have you. We can tweak and change all these things but all the 30+ years of gaming has proven is that people will always find a way to work the system. If Evil is going to dominate teams99, it's going to dominate. Unless of course they align teams in a way that has nothing to do with race or deity, in which case none of this is even relevant.

[Vexenu]

If there was only a single change permitted to the vanilla rules, I agree that combining Neutral and Good would be the way to go (although Evil team FFA would be close). Three teams is ideal, but better two somewhat balanced teams that one powerful team, one moderate team and one pathetic team. It seems like the devs are a bit more ambitious with their desire to make a custom ruleset than that, though, which is why my proposed rules go a little further.

My biggest fear with griefing is simply that people will take it too far in an attempt to deliberately sabotage the launch of the server. And why should we allow that to happen? The population was large enough on Live to absorb those losses, but we don't have that luxury at this point. At the very least, regardless the ruleset they ultimately choose, I hope the devs will have something in place to prevent egregious newb griefing during the first few weeks of the server. Done correctly, a Teams PvP server could be a big success, and sustain 400+ players during primetime. If the ruleset and the server launch are not handled with care, however, it will turn out the same as Red and would be lucky to maintain 100 players.

[SamwiseRed]

3 teams or get the fuck out. 2 teams is another terrible idea usually presented by people who have no pvp experience. look at red99. its been 2 teams for almost 2 years. Nilly vs not nilly. its not been that great. server was always thriving when it was 3 teams before such as nilly vs ff vs holo. an odd number of teams is needed to balance this shit.

[phacemeltar]

i would like there to be new factions for pvp, which players can choose.. i.e. Team Nilbog, Sirken's Heroes, Rogean's Mercenaries... you get to choose which team you are on at a certain level and each team gets their own private chat channel. Or you can choose to not join a team at all and just FFA everyone. Also with guild war enabled.

[Weekapaug]

3 teams or get the fuck out. 2 teams is another terrible idea usually presented by people who have no pvp experience. look at red99. its been 2 teams for almost 2 years. Nilly vs not nilly. its not been that great. server was always thriving when it was 3 teams before such as nilly vs ff vs holo. an odd number of teams is needed to balance this shit.

I agree, but after the first couple of weeks on SZ good was basicly a non-issue and it was basicly 2 teams anyway. It was pretty much Evil vs Neut after that. Without taking the server to disneyland, how do you really balance 3 teams?

[SamwiseRed]

how do you balance 2? aika has 5 teams. the dominating team is not allowed to have an alliance, the other 4 teams can ally with 1 other. so basically it goes something like this

team 1 - dominant

team 2 and 4 allies

team 3 and 5 allies

alliances are formed and broken as the dominant team (nation) is always changing.

this is how is "should" work on sz where the 2 smaller teams kinda leave each other alone and concentrate on the current zerg. does that happen? yes and no but trust me 2 teams is just asking for failure. server fun when more than one team is competiting, even if that other team is weak as hell.

[jcmtg]

This is the rule set I'm supporting. With a few minor changes such as No Variance and a staggered spawn time so mobs can't be locked into a time slot. i.e Spawn Time of 3.2 days instead of 3 days will stagger the mob 4 hours every spawn.


If you support that ruleset and have ideas for it I suggest posting in that particular thread so that the devs know what you want.

+1 to this. Staggered non variance raid mobs.

More classic ruleset (SZ)

[porigromus]

i would like there to be new factions for pvp, which players can choose.. i.e. Team Nilbog, Sirken's Heroes, Rogean's Mercenaries... you get to choose which team you are on at a certain level and each team gets their own private chat channel. Or you can choose to not join a team at all and just FFA everyone. Also with guild war enabled.

How would this be any different than it is now on red99? Everyone would just choose to be on the winning team because any race or class would be able. It would be worse actually, it is a permanent decision.

[Weekapaug]

how do you balance 2? aika has 5 teams. the dominating team is not allowed to have an alliance, the other 4 teams can ally with 1 other. so basically it goes something like this

team 1 - dominant

team 2 and 4 allies

team 3 and 5 allies

alliances are formed and broken as the dominant team (nation) is always changing.

this is how is "should" work on sz where the 2 smaller teams kinda leave each other alone and concentrate on the current zerg. does that happen? yes and no but trust me 2 teams is just asking for failure. server fun when more than one team is competiting, even if that other team is weak as hell.

That's kind of what happened on SZ live, but what mostly happened was most goods gave up and either left or re-rolled neutral or evil.

Without giving it a close look, I guess you could break evil's dietys into 2 teams for a total of 4. And maybe 2 for neut too for a total of 5. You have to be careful how you do it, though, because every team needs wizards and clerics. And, arguably, shaman's and rangers (assuming track is the same as it is here). Really, every team needs every class except for necros, which are clearly evil...SKs and Pallys break down appropriately, too.

[Vexenu]

But now you get into the problem of population. Five teams would be too many for the population to support. Three teams is really the most you could get away with, just like SZ. And since three teams is the best you can realistically do, that's why I think it's worth playing with the ruleset a little to try to ensure as much balance between those teams as you reasonably can without totally shitting all over the classic feel of the server. This is why I like changes that are largely behind the scenes, because they allow for differences but still preserve mostly the same "feel" and aesthetic of classic.

[phacemeltar]

see: http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=121312

[feanan]

Yeah, five teams is too many. that will be like 5 teams of 10 each.

Should go for 3 teams, that way you'll have at least 15 per team.

Oh, wait, I forget, you think this team pvp server is going to really draw them in.

bahahahaha

[porigromus]

You should not be able to group with, be buffed by, healed by, anyone out of your PvP level range. This would also solve the power leveling junk.

Also, I think there should be a very very nice XP bonus for grouping. The bonus should make you level as fast or faster than currently on red99.

Make 2 teams, 1 evil the other neutral and good. Population too low for 3 teams and also makes evil too strong if they other 2 aren't combined.

The PvP level range should be + or - 4.

No XP loss on death.

1 item lootable upon kill but nothing equipped (including bags).

[Weekapaug]

Yeah, five teams is too many. that will be like 5 teams of 10 each.

Should go for 3 teams, that way you'll have at least 15 per team.

Oh, wait, I forget, you think this team pvp server is going to really draw them in.

bahahahaha

It's not what I think, douche. It's that they have announced that there will be a teams based pvp server and they are looking for input on it.

Grow the fuck up.