Rules regarding trains

[phacemeltar]

Ok every day now there seems to be an assling worth of trains, for the past week or so i been in MM. Every time i remind people that trains are against server rules and that they should just die instead of killing others, they seem to not realize this is a thing. Am i mistaken here? Are trains ok to do?

[Swish]

Trains in MM/Unrest/etc? Shit's classic :/

If its persistent and in any way designed to flush a group out of a camp (CE/lake/etc) to stop a camp being shared, then I'd definitely petition.

[Lyra]

Shit's classic :/

Someone repeatedly training unrest last week used this excuse when confronted. Seems to be an accepted practice.

I suggest leaving. There are other places. I'm not going to tell you where we moved to until we leave. It's been wonderful though.

[Thulack]

In places like that if your training to zone out to avoid death most people realize this and wont sit at zone in or in train path. Training others with intent to kill is moreso what the rule is for. Trains to save self happens all the time in places like unrest/MM/Karnors(there is a reason everyone sits on the same side)

[Swish]

Trains in Unrest do happen, but in many cases are totally preventable. Sadly in all instances the people who get shit on are the lowbies (zone-in/lake for MM, MR for Unrest).

More should be done to stop bad players wrecking zones because they can't control their camp... like 90% of us don't try to lull red mobs, but there's always a douchebag that'll keep trying and call a train if it doesn't work.

Intentionally training to cause a PvE death on red is highly frowned upon :p

[loramin]

I didn't think *trains* were against the rules so much as *training players*. If you are going to die and you run to the zone line so that you don't that's called playing Everquest. If you're a nice person you should "/shout train to zone" as you're doing it, that's not required.

On the other hand, if you don't like someone competing with you for a camp, so you decide to get a bunch of mobs to chase after you then die (or feign death) in front of them, that is against the rules ... or at least it should be, as it's a real dick move.

[Swish]

Taking MM as an example, back in the day when I was levelling my troll SK... we had a PL'er and his "customer" turn up at CE.

Sadly for him, we were managing to pull not only the gypsies inside but a lot of the mobs towards Maestro...so naturally he was going to have to look elsewhere. Not this guy though - he decided to start pulling mobs from the top of the stairs (past the 2 gargs), which caused social aggro with our mobs.

You could forgive him once, but he kept doing it and it took the chance appearance of a high level cleric to keep our group together as he rezzed us up. Druid was reported for it, no idea if he ever got away with it :p

[Ele]

You've invaded the monster's domain, and they are fighting back.

[myriverse]

Trains run on time.

[Lyra]

If you need to "train" more than twice in a session, you need to move on. Either move on to a new area, a new group, a new class or maybe even a new game.

Maybe you ran multiple trains when you were 16 in 1999, but the average adult player in Everquest didn't then and shouldn't be now.

[Raavak]

If you need to "train" more than twice in a session, you need to move on. Either move on to a new area, a new group, a new class or maybe even a new game.That's happened to me. After either soloing or grouping and aggroing Khrix Fritchoff or a werebat (when they were red cons) or something a couple times I'd call it a night.

[JayN]

I trained your mom last night!

everquest is a game youll have to get used to trains in. some intentional some not, be on your toes!

[skipdog]

Report the person that is training and move on with your life.

[Atmas]

Ok every day now there seems to be an assling worth of trains, for the past week or so i been in MM. Every time i remind people that trains are against server rules and that they should just die instead of killing others, they seem to not realize this is a thing. Am i mistaken here? Are trains ok to do?

You seem to have confused trains with training. Trains, or the act of running to a zone line to lose agro, are not against the server rules and were not against the rules on live. Training, the act of dumping mobs in a non-zone line area in order to have them agro other players is against the rules.

Trains and Mistmoore are almost synonymous. It's not even worth complaining about if you have any clue were to park your group. If a player calls a train anyone exping at CE, GY, or Pond can easily avoid it. Is it a bit of an inconvenience? Yes, but that is an MMO, having to interact with other people in the world.

[happyhappy]

Training
Training can be defined as the intentional manipulation of NPC Placement and Aggro in such a way that causes it to attack another player that it wouldn't have otherwise if at it's normal spawn location. The most basic form of this is "dumping" mobs near another player or party and escaping via a form of teleportation or death. Intentional or not, this is against the rules. This rule is not limited to the basic example given, as there are many different forms of training players will use. You take all responsibility for mobs that you aggro. If you are trying to escape from a pack of NPC's but there is another group in your way, do not run through them. Even if your intention is not to train them, it would inevitable cause this and you may be subject to disciplinary. It is recommended that you take the death (Your responsibility for aggroing the mobs) and request a resurrection from nearby players.

If you happen to accidentally train a group of players, please immedietely notify the staff via /petition that you have done so by accident. Apologize to the players in question, and assist them with any recovery needed. If the staff hears about your train before you tell them, intention is no longer an excuse. (Repeated unintentional trains will still result in disciplinary action).

[loramin]

happyhappy I think that just reiterates what we've all been saying: training (groups of people) is bad, training a zone is ok. That language just seems to be there to prevent "oh I didn't mean to train that group, it was an accident" behavior, not to mandate that no one is allowed to run to zone (honestly you shouldn't need to run through a group to get to the zone except in unusual cases).

[happyhappy]

Wasn't aware I was posting in a young lawyer thread, my bad.

Carry on

[Atmas]

I'm still just amazed that there is a thread complaining about trains in Mistmoore. I'm going to make a thread complaining about auction spam in EC.

[Estolcles]

The unwriten rule is to /shout "TRAIN TO ZONE" or something to that effect so as to warn others to move to safe areas.

They're just dicks if they're not even doing that.

[SCB]

I remember back on live I used to think trains were a design intent of the game - that every now and then a zone would just spawn a group of mobs that ran around murdering everyone and everything.

Then I hit dungeons higher than BB/CB/Unrest/MM and it was a whole new, glorious world. Until KC.

[Tecmos Deception]

You seem to have confused trains with training. Trains, or the act of running to a zone line to lose agro, are not against the server rules and were not against the rules on live. Training, the act of dumping mobs in a non-zone line area in order to have them agro other players is against the rules.

Trains and Mistmoore are almost synonymous. It's not even worth complaining about if you have any clue were to park your group. If a player calls a train anyone exping at CE, GY, or Pond can easily avoid it. Is it a bit of an inconvenience? Yes, but that is an MMO, having to interact with other people in the world.

Someone needs to read the p99 rules.

Training rules are technically pretty strict. What atmas seems to think is ok is actually against the p99 rules. Training is broadly defined by staff as basically any action you take that results in a mob aggroing someone if it would not otherwise have aggrod them... so even dying to a mob and then while it paths back to its normal spot if that aggros someone you technically trained them. Training is against the rules even if unintentional. But staff don't seem to enforce them much at all.

[webrunner5]

Come on Tec. Trains in Unrest, MM, Befallen are a dime a dozen. Go to Runnyeye if you don't want a train because NOBODY ever plays there.

[JayN]

Come on Tec. Trains in Unrest, MM, Befallen are a dime a dozen. Go to Runnyeye if you don't want a train because NOBODY ever plays there.

Then he can train the zone for his life or probably just die since every fucking thing is a caster

[YendorLootmonkey]

1) There should be no accidental trains in Mistmoore... get a druid or ranger to harmony pull. Shit is EZ mode.

2) Most groups/camps can minimize the impact of trains with positioning.

- Pond group stations themselves at pond to avoid trains to zone.
- Graveyard group is safe until castle trains come back because they tend to path through graveyard... stay against the wall, listen for shouts of trains, and fight your mobs against the wall instead of out in the middle.
- Castle Entrance group can mitigate the effect of trains from inside castle by pulling over to the right as they come out of the castle and fighting the mob over against that wall.
- Never really seen a level-appropriate group inside the castle unless they camp themselves in the Foyer in which case Castle Entrance is forced to pull past them (why can't they set up camp in the piano room?), or out in the garden which is isolated from the effects of trains from elsewhere.

The only group that's truly F'd is the douchebag group that situates themselves between Pond and Graveyard in the canyon and tries to make that a camp... they willingly accept every train they get in the face. I am convinced these are the same people who level up and then kill mobs in the entryway in KC instead of pulling off to either side of the moat and then complain about eating every train.

[Atmas]

Someone needs to read the p99 rules.

Training rules are technically pretty strict. What atmas seems to think is ok is actually against the p99 rules. Training is broadly defined by staff as basically any action you take that results in a mob aggroing someone if it would not otherwise have aggrod them... so even dying to a mob and then while it paths back to its normal spot if that aggros someone you technically trained them. Training is against the rules even if unintentional. But staff don't seem to enforce them much at all.

Yep, you are correct about the rules here. I still stand by my opinion that people complaining about trains in Mistmoore is odd. I'm almost certain the zone was designed to lend itself to large trains. Also as I and others have mentioned the typical xping group would be situated to pretty easily avoid any announced trains. Now not announcing trains is a different matter.

[Lune]

1) There should be no accidental trains in Mistmoore... get a druid or ranger to harmony pull. Shit is EZ mode.

2) Most groups/camps can minimize the impact of trains with positioning.

- Pond group stations themselves at pond to avoid trains to zone.
- Graveyard group is safe until castle trains come back because they tend to path through graveyard... stay against the wall, listen for shouts of trains, and fight your mobs against the wall instead of out in the middle.
- Castle Entrance group can mitigate the effect of trains from inside castle by pulling over to the right as they come out of the castle and fighting the mob over against that wall.
- Never really seen a level-appropriate group inside the castle unless they camp themselves in the Foyer in which case Castle Entrance is forced to pull past them (why can't they set up camp in the piano room?), or out in the garden which is isolated from the effects of trains from elsewhere.

The only group that's truly F'd is the douchebag group that situates themselves between Pond and Graveyard in the canyon and tries to make that a camp... they willingly accept every train they get in the face. I am convinced these are the same people who level up and then kill mobs in the entryway in KC instead of pulling off to either side of the moat and then complain about eating every train.

Thank you based Yendor this is exactly correct

[Tasslehofp99]

Training is rarely enforced on p99, unfortunately.

[Brut]

Would honestly love a good old fashion "gun down the first row of kids to shut the class up"-policy here. People have no reason to stop being bad if you don't give them one. If everyone got a week long vacation for training like goofs through a zone and rooting anything they aggro'd to camp out, I'm sure the next week they're back they'll have figured out how double invis works.

Instead it's "roflmaol n00b ofc u die cuz sit on capm where i guna train 2".

[Tecmos Deception]

Come on Tec. Trains in Unrest, MM, Befallen are a dime a dozen. Go to Runnyeye if you don't want a train because NOBODY ever plays there.

I never even HINTED that trains don't happen. I personally believe that getting trained in places like CoM or KC or MM should be expected as part of how those zones work. But that doesn't change the fact that the rules on training are stated explicitly on the forums; they are just almost never enforced.