Perhaps EQNext is going in the right direction..

[Wrench]

https://www.everquestnext.com/round-table?poll=contested-content

[Kohedron]

https://www.everquestnext.com/round-table?poll=guns-and-ninjas

[Swish]

I like that they're asking the fans.

However "the fans" for EQ1 were responsible for voting for a new blue server (end of 2009?), which then got shut down 3 months later in favor of the 1st progression server, pissed off hundreds of people who put weeks/months into their new characters only to have it merge with Tunare...where everyone had about 2500 AAs etc etc :p

The worst part was there was a really great community. I didn't want to play as Swishxxxxxx and quit Live on the spot... oh, and found P99 a few months later :D

Hopefully they'll take the fans input as a marker but not rely on it completely. Personally I think having a SOE account should be required to vote on that poll, else people will troll it :p

[Wrench]

https://www.everquestnext.com/round-table?poll=guns-and-ninjas

touche

[Rec]

Very little everquest in everquest next

[fadetree]

Fans are idiots when it comes to game design.

[eqravenprince]

I never liked contested content in EQ. Hopefully they can get it right in EQNext. Remove static spawn points, static spawn times, and static zones. I've read some stuff on EQNext that leads me to believe they are doing exactly that. Dungeons will appear randomly in random spots, close up after so much time, maybe open back up somewhere else later and be a different layout. Here's to hoping for random everything. Give me a sense of adventure and mystery to the world, never knowing what is around the next corner.

[Swish]

Kerran evolution...

EQ1:- http://i43.tinypic.com/357rn6q.png

EQ2:- http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20121103035505/eq2/images/thumb/c/cf/Kell_Silentfang.png/180px-Kell_Silentfang.png

EQ Next:- http://orcz.com/images/thumb/4/45/Kerranwarrioreqnext.jpg/400px-Kerranwarrioreqnext.jpg

More up to date, but a big departure from original kerrans. I like kerrans, but kerrans are kerrans, not lions by another name :p

Fans are idiots when it comes to game design.

Also, this ^^

[koros]

I never liked contested content in EQ. Hopefully they can get it right in EQNext. Remove static spawn points, static spawn times, and static zones. I've read some stuff on EQNext that leads me to believe they are doing exactly that. Dungeons will appear randomly in random spots, close up after so much time, maybe open back up somewhere else later and be a different layout. Here's to hoping for random everything. Give me a sense of adventure and mystery to the world, never knowing what is around the next corner.

Uh this is basically the exact opposite of what most of p99 wants... that's why we're playing classic eq.

[Fawqueue]

I never liked contested content in EQ. Hopefully they can get it right in EQNext. Remove static spawn points, static spawn times, and static zones. I've read some stuff on EQNext that leads me to believe they are doing exactly that. Dungeons will appear randomly in random spots, close up after so much time, maybe open back up somewhere else later and be a different layout. Here's to hoping for random everything. Give me a sense of adventure and mystery to the world, never knowing what is around the next corner.

Yeah dungeons can appear on the spot, but have you SEEN the combat system? I don't even want to accidentally discover a dungeon, because super-leaps and spinning-whirlwind-of-death WoW moves make me want to puke.

I wish more MMOs wouldn't miss the mark on this...I don't mind my guy having fewer abilities and pretty much fighting like a normal combatant. I can't leap 30 feet and smash in a 5 foot crater with a hammer bigger than I am, so I'm fine with my avatar not being able to do it either. But. it's my son's generation that is going to make EQNext work or not, and unfortunately he thinks it looks like the second coming of christ...

[Deli]

EQnext? More like EQNot

[Elderan]

Yeah dungeons can appear on the spot, but have you SEEN the combat system? I don't even want to accidentally discover a dungeon, because super-leaps and spinning-whirlwind-of-death WoW moves make me want to puke.

I wish more MMOs wouldn't miss the mark on this...I don't mind my guy having fewer abilities and pretty much fighting like a normal combatant. I can't leap 30 feet and smash in a 5 foot crater with a hammer bigger than I am, so I'm fine with my avatar not being able to do it either. But. it's my son's generation that is going to make EQNext work or not, and unfortunately he thinks it looks like the second coming of christ...

The moment I saw the combat video I about vomited.

Slow combat down, make it more realistic. It is really that simple.

[Weekapaug]

Fans are idiots when it comes to game design.

[crkhobbit]

I, for one, am absolutely sick of cartoon graphics with GIANT shoulderpads and weapons everywhere.

Everything is amazingsuperawesomefuntimehueglikexbawks all the time everywhere. I was really excited for EQNext until the reveal. A lot of the concepts are really, really cool. But the combat system worries me, deeply.

I think it would be cool as a 2d sidescroller.

[Dirtnap]

Honestly, EQNext looks like WoW and seems to play like WoW as well. They were saying that EQNext would be more like EQ1 than EQ2 and that just isn't the case so far from what we have been shown.

The first time I saw a video for it I thought I was looking at footage for Blizzard's new MMO, not the new EQ.

I'm keeping an open mind as more information comes out, but my opinion so far is that this game is not a step in the EQ1 direction, but further down the rabbit hole.

[Borador]

Uh this is basically the exact opposite of what most of p99 wants... that's why we're playing classic eq.at first thought yes... But, what made me love eq was being dropped into a world with a note... Annnd go. No maps, no arrows, no quest logs. That sense of exploration is impossible now because there are multiple sites with full spoilers of everything prior to release. Dynamic content could solve that somewhat.

Also, I do love camping a static spawn but I think a lot of that has to do with not being focused on mass slaughter at that moment. If they can create some dynamic hunting type of code where you try not to kill everything to get a named guy, it could be great. (Ex. If the goblin king hears all his little dudes getting slaughtered he might run away).

And yes, the combat system looks like garbage, if its a dumb mmo-action RPG, I'll play for a week and quit.

[fadetree]

MMORPS=Massively Multiplayer On-Line Role-playing SHOULDERS

[Elderan]

Honestly, EQNext looks like WoW and seems to play like WoW as well. They were saying that EQNext would be more like EQ1 than EQ2 and that just isn't the case so far from what we have been shown.

The first time I saw a video for it I thought I was looking at footage for Blizzard's new MMO, not the new EQ.

I'm keeping an open mind as more information comes out, but my opinion so far is that this game is not a step in the EQ1 direction, but further down the rabbit hole.

EQ Next was designed to be basically wow in the eq world. A few years back they stopped and redesigned the project but you can clearly see the old wow like design.

[eqravenprince]

And yes, the combat system looks like garbage, if its a dumb mmo-action RPG, I'll play for a week and quit.

If done right fast pace combat can be amazingly fun. City of Heroes was like this and I had a blast playing it.

[MaximiusM]

They are asking us how to make a good game?...

http://onscreencars.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/TheHomer.jpg

[Uteunayr]

What defines WoW?

For me, it is a few things:
1) Progression: A Themepark Questing Structure: What I mean by this is you go to Area A, and in Area A, there is a central questing hub, with (maybe) a few periphery questing hubs. You go into them, and you gather up quests, and run out and collect 10 bear anuses for a troll with a weird fetish. When you collect enough of these, you finish the quest, and get a burst of experience that is greater than the amount you would get if you had spent that time killing enemies. At the end is a leash spell that guides you to the next questing hub to collect 12 badger noses, and so on. This process continues until max level, at which the game changes entirely.

2) Content: Heavy emphasis on end-game that is inclusive. Once one has collected and turned in enough beaver horns, they are max level. This introduces a few waves of "Content" that is only available once one is max level. This content is locked behind instances that are open to all, and raiding is only competitive in the sense of fighting other guilds for the highest rank of kills in an area in which all kills are available. The content prior to this is effectively meaningless, and is only given value in terms of achievement/appearance gear, rather than actual usable gear. By and large, this gear is not tradable or profitable in any form without "Carrying" a purchaser through the instanced combat.

3) World Design: The world is designed as a themepark, and so the world lacks mystery. By this... Allow me to refer to the world design of EverQuest. When one first steps into Oasis of Marr, and they begin killing Crocodiles and stuff like that, they are not in an isolated bubble. As the player kills crocs and orcs, they can also see Cazel or other giants, and see their power. They also see higher level players taking them down, and can wonder what loot there is. Emphasize this point with the spectre island, ghostly beasts surrounding a tower with a eerie light coming from up top. What is in there? What's on that island? You might see a high level player there fighting them, and that's cool. High level players and low level players are designed to be in similar areas, to allow player interaction, and it gives low level players something to see and aspire too. WoW's world design does not have this in any way. Not even a little. Low levels are instanced onto the main continents while high level players are forced into other continents entirely that are not welcoming to new players.

4) Loot: This goes along with Heavy emphasis on end-game, but the loot system is inclusive of keeping things for some time. Items one receives at level 70 will be useless in the next few levels, if not within the same level. There are no items kept for Utility (Circlet of Shadow/Mage Focus/Mallets) other than those items that are achieved at a maximum level.

I could probably go on if I thought about it, but I am getting low on time.

For EQ Next:

1) Progression: From what has been said (and in no way will that reflect what is truly going to happen), the game is going to not be quest based, but instead have grand arcs with generalized goals for the gaming populace *that choose to take part in it*. These will not be heavily structured or even help progress, merely offer the player some direction in starting an adventure ("Hey, our walls have been under attack by goblins. That shit sucks... Could you kill some?" And you do not have to return proof or anything, you are just nudged that you can go slaughter some goblins). One unlocks classes and spells/abilities through their interaction with the world, discovering them from killing AI that collect in a dynamic system, or through interactions with PCs of varying factions who hold the information to classes.

2) Content: The content is created by a dynamic world that changes slowly over time. The rallying call that lasts months will encourage players to adventure until a certain, unknown criteria is met, and this will trigger progression to a next stage. This continues indefinitely as the world is built and destroyed. The products of these calls will persist on the game world. High-end content is non-existent, since there is no technical "end-game". The end-game is when you feel you have thoroughly explored the game world enough, and have seen everything there is to see. However, what you see is variable, based on...

3) World Design: The game world is created as a basic template. This template will be made of voxels, or miniature blocks similar to Minecraft, but on a significantly smaller scale, to allow smoother edges and better visuals. This world can be shaped actively by players, as well as accidentally. Enemies in this world will not static spawn, but instead gravitate towards areas they like, and away from areas they do not like. If they are allowed to, they will build up to powerful defensive positions that make it harder for adventurers to kill them. The world is massive, and shifting. There is no word on flying mounts (which have the tendency to shrink a game).

4) Loot: Equally as vital to your class/abilitiy makeup as your class/ability makeup. If you're a rogue that wants to teleport, you don't have much innate mana, so you gear toward mana so you can use teleport. If you're a mage that wants to backstab, gear toward agility and strength so you can backstab with your teleport spells. Gear is relative to your build, but vital. No word on the longevity. EDIT: Because of the fact that progression is fairly flat (you don't go from 1->2, you just get more abilities and more versatility), gear does not seem that it is going to be wiped every day or less of playing.

There are many other factors that make EQ Classic great, such as player interdependence (which isn't looking good, since you have all classes available on a character) and and longevity to one's journey to 60 (they have said they are trying to make it take quite a long time to fully progress to where you have "maxed"). They have said that what you saw in EQN was the most basic of stuff together. It is limited, you are watching the EQ effective of a level 60 killing rats in front of Freeport. Graphics (such as the way the trees break to the iron golem) are still in early stages.

It is important to know that this is SoE, the game company that has frequently taken great things and made them crap, and has made great promises, and failed to follow through. I just don't see EQ Next being like WoW in all honesty. Sure, it looks like it graphically, but design wise... I just haven't seen much in comparison. Now EQ2 is pretty damn close on all these points. But on what has currently been said on EQ Next on a world design/game design aspect other than graphics? I just don't see it.

[Bohab]

They are asking us how to make a good game?...

http://onscreencars.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/TheHomer.jpg

rofl totally forgot about that episode. spot on

[Dirtnap]

What defines WoW?

For me, it is a few things:
1) Progression: A Themepark Questing Structure: What I mean by this is you go to Area A, and in Area A, there is a central questing hub, with (maybe) a few periphery questing hubs. You go into them, and you gather up quests, and run out and collect 10 bear anuses for a troll with a weird fetish. When you collect enough of these, you finish the quest, and get a burst of experience that is greater than the amount you would get if you had spent that time killing enemies. At the end is a leash spell that guides you to the next questing hub to collect 12 badger noses, and so on. This process continues until max level, at which the game changes entirely.

2) Content: Heavy emphasis on end-game that is inclusive. Once one has collected and turned in enough beaver horns, they are max level. This introduces a few waves of "Content" that is only available once one is max level. This content is locked behind instances that are open to all, and raiding is only competitive in the sense of fighting other guilds for the highest rank of kills in an area in which all kills are available. The content prior to this is effectively meaningless, and is only given value in terms of achievement/appearance gear, rather than actual usable gear. By and large, this gear is not tradable or profitable in any form without "Carrying" a purchaser through the instanced combat.

3) World Design: The world is designed as a themepark, and so the world lacks mystery. By this... Allow me to refer to the world design of EverQuest. When one first steps into Oasis of Marr, and they begin killing Crocodiles and stuff like that, they are not in an isolated bubble. As the player kills crocs and orcs, they can also see Cazel or other giants, and see their power. They also see higher level players taking them down, and can wonder what loot there is. Emphasize this point with the spectre island, ghostly beasts surrounding a tower with a eerie light coming from up top. What is in there? What's on that island? You might see a high level player there fighting them, and that's cool. High level players and low level players are designed to be in similar areas, to allow player interaction, and it gives low level players something to see and aspire too. WoW's world design does not have this in any way. Not even a little. Low levels are instanced onto the main continents while high level players are forced into other continents entirely that are not welcoming to new players.

4) Loot: This goes along with Heavy emphasis on end-game, but the loot system is inclusive of keeping things for some time. Items one receives at level 70 will be useless in the next few levels, if not within the same level. There are no items kept for Utility (Circlet of Shadow/Mage Focus/Mallets) other than those items that are achieved at a maximum level.

I could probably go on if I thought about it, but I am getting low on time.

For EQ Next:

1) Progression: From what has been said (and in no way will that reflect what is truly going to happen), the game is going to not be quest based, but instead have grand arcs with generalized goals for the gaming populace *that choose to take part in it*. These will not be heavily structured or even help progress, merely offer the player some direction in starting an adventure ("Hey, our walls have been under attack by goblins. That shit sucks... Could you kill some?" And you do not have to return proof or anything, you are just nudged that you can go slaughter some goblins). One unlocks classes and spells/abilities through their interaction with the world, discovering them from killing AI that collect in a dynamic system, or through interactions with PCs of varying factions who hold the information to classes.

2) Content: The content is created by a dynamic world that changes slowly over time. The rallying call that lasts months will encourage players to adventure until a certain, unknown criteria is met, and this will trigger progression to a next stage. This continues indefinitely as the world is built and destroyed. The products of these calls will persist on the game world. High-end content is non-existent, since there is no technical "end-game". The end-game is when you feel you have thoroughly explored the game world enough, and have seen everything there is to see. However, what you see is variable, based on...

3) World Design: The game world is created as a basic template. This template will be made of voxels, or miniature blocks similar to Minecraft, but on a significantly smaller scale, to allow smoother edges and better visuals. This world can be shaped actively by players, as well as accidentally. Enemies in this world will not static spawn, but instead gravitate towards areas they like, and away from areas they do not like. If they are allowed to, they will build up to powerful defensive positions that make it harder for adventurers to kill them. The world is massive, and shifting. There is no word on flying mounts (which have the tendency to shrink a game).

4) Loot: Equally as vital to your class/abilitiy makeup as your class/ability makeup. If you're a rogue that wants to teleport, you don't have much innate mana, so you gear toward mana so you can use teleport. If you're a mage that wants to backstab, gear toward agility and strength so you can backstab with your teleport spells. Gear is relative to your build, but vital. No word on the longevity. EDIT: Because of the fact that progression is fairly flat (you don't go from 1->2, you just get more abilities and more versatility), gear does not seem that it is going to be wiped every day or less of playing.

There are many other factors that make EQ Classic great, such as player interdependence (which isn't looking good, since you have all classes available on a character) and and longevity to one's journey to 60 (they have said they are trying to make it take quite a long time to fully progress to where you have "maxed"). They have said that what you saw in EQN was the most basic of stuff together. It is limited, you are watching the EQ effective of a level 60 killing rats in front of Freeport. Graphics (such as the way the trees break to the iron golem) are still in early stages.

It is important to know that this is SoE, the game company that has frequently taken great things and made them crap, and has made great promises, and failed to follow through. I just don't see EQ Next being like WoW in all honesty. Sure, it looks like it graphically, but design wise... I just haven't seen much in comparison. Now EQ2 is pretty damn close on all these points. But on what has currently been said on EQ Next on a world design/game design aspect other than graphics? I just don't see it.

The feel of a game and the aesthetic really matter. You can be bringing different content or styles into the gameplay, but if the gameplay still FEELS the same then it won't matter what you do.

I find that people don't tend to leave a game for lack of content, they leave it because they just can't stand the same thing over and over again. So they decide to buy an MMO they have never played before, and it ends up being the same thing they were already playing. So they just jump back into the game that all their friends are playing.

EQN will need to bring something substantial to the table that other games don't already have, and be mind blowingly well done.

[Kika Maslyaka]

even though WoW created cartoonish world that seem to appeal the most to 12-16 year old , it has its share of dark humor in it, as well as suggestive themes - Succubus as pet anyone?

EQN dropped the level all way down to Disneyland for 5 year old.

Aesthetically, I would prefer lavish landscapes of EQ2 combined with slightly improved EQ1 Luclin models.

Gameplay wise... no MMO exists that could satisfy me completely

[SCB]

If you actually vote in the polls and see the results, you may like what you see. I'm a huge fan of the way the vast majority of polls are going.

[Autotune]

The moment I saw the combat video I about vomited.

Slow combat down, make it more realistic. It is really that simple.

Nothing more realistic than summoning the dead and casting ice comets...

[Zuranthium]

Why do people not comprehend 'realistic' as meaning "realistic for a high fantasy World"?

[Autotune]

Why do people not comprehend 'realistic' as meaning "realistic for a high fantasy World"?

so in your high fantasy world, if I'm getting this right, creatures can't leap 30ft, but they can rain comets down from the sky... they can't spin extremely fast and become a whirlwind of bladed steel, yet they can be resurrected thousands of times, become invisible, tele-fucking-port across the world, and cast spells that increase their movement speed (ever seen spirit of cheetah or whatever).

Also, the combat here is highly unrealistic as it's slow as balls.

[Estolcles]

They are asking us how to make a good game?...

http://onscreencars.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/TheHomer.jpg

That.

[Wudan]

the fact they are asking such a STUPID question made me realize EQnext is dead before it even started. I mean guns and ninjas?Do you really need to ask the community?

IS IT NOT FUCKING OBVIOUS THESE THINGS DONT BELONG IN EQ!? HOW FUCKED UP DO YOU HAVE TO BE TO EVEN THINK ABOUT IT LET ALONE POST IT AS A SERIOUS QUESTION?!

WTF are these people smoking? This is just ridiculous! I lost all my hopes. Nothing more needs to be added. This one thing alone proves to me they have NO FUCKING IDEA what they are doing!

...and the design? ANOTHER FUCKIN CARTOON BULLSHIT WITH armor pieces bigger than a fucking bus. Seriously....all these people in EQnext creative team need to pull their giant heads out of their giant asses. This is just baaaad......so baaaad

/vomit
/q EQnext
/rant

[Champion_Standing]

Should the Ratonga be in EverQuest Next?

Ratonga are part of EverQuest. Let them in! - 46.1%


All hope lost

[eqravenprince]

Why do people not comprehend 'realistic' as meaning "realistic for a high fantasy World"?

Do you mean more realistic like EQ or some book you read? If you are strictly talking about the graphics, I understand, I don't like the cartoony look myself.

[webrunner5]

the fact they are asking such a STUPID question made me realize EQnext is dead before it even started. I mean guns and ninjas?Do you really need to ask the community?

IS IT NOT FUCKING OBVIOUS THESE THINGS DONT BELONG IN EQ!? HOW FUCKED UP DO YOU HAVE TO BE TO EVEN THINK ABOUT IT LET ALONE POST IT AS A SERIOUS QUESTION?!

WTF are these people smoking? This is just ridiculous! I lost all my hopes. Nothing more needs to be added. This one thing alone proves to me they have NO FUCKING IDEA what they are doing!

...and the design? ANOTHER FUCKIN CARTOON BULLSHIT WITH armor pieces bigger than a fucking bus. Seriously....all these people in EQnext creative team need to pull their giant heads out of their giant asses. This is just baaaad......so baaaad

/vomit
/q EQnext
/rant

I am glad you got that off your chest. :) But I agree totally with you. DOA.

[t0lkien]

I would have thought it was reasonably obvious Sony is interested in hitting mass market with EQN, not maintaining some level of faithfulness to past iterations or holding to any standard of creative integrity.

[bloodmuffin]

Should the Ratonga be in EverQuest Next?

Ratonga are part of EverQuest. Let them in! - 46.1%


All hope lost

Thank god someone caught that. Although, I already lost hope when I saw the graphics engine.

Here's another one that boggled me.

"Should female dwarves have beards or not?"

This is a fucking cosmetic choice. Why Does this need to be asked? Who the fuck is responsible for these questions?

[t0lkien]

so in your high fantasy world, if I'm getting this right, creatures can't leap 30ft, but they can rain comets down from the sky... they can't spin extremely fast and become a whirlwind of bladed steel, yet they can be resurrected thousands of times, become invisible, tele-fucking-port across the world, and cast spells that increase their movement speed (ever seen spirit of cheetah or whatever).

Also, the combat here is highly unrealistic as it's slow as balls.

I know you're just trolling, but seriously, look up the definition of High Fantasy, and then read LoTR and all the Conan stories, and then any other works that essentially borrow from and extend those universes, and then let's continue this silly conversation. Though I'm really hoping that by then you will understand how far away from the point your arguments are.

[eqravenprince]

I know you're just trolling, but seriously, look up the definition of High Fantasy, and then read LoTR and all the Conan stories, and then any other works that essentially borrow from and extend those universes, and then let's continue this silly conversation. Though I'm really hoping that by then you will understand how far away from the point your arguments are.

Definition: High fantasy or epic fantasy is a subgenre of fantasy that is set in invented or parallel worlds.

Seems to me that high fantasy can be just about anything. I think his post made a lot of sense. I agreed with him.

[Weekapaug]

The thing about that question is it's kind of silly how they worded it.

What do Ninjas and guns have to do with one another?

Ninjas I could see working in a high fantasy setting, in a way. Guns not so much.

[Kohedron]

I just hope and pray they do three things:

Make some classes much better at soloing and some much better with groups

and

Keep the difficulty level higher than the current trend of MMO's

and

no P2W, please.

I'm not a super fan of the graphics, but what I find so appealing about classic graphics are the convincing animations, and that seems to be what they're focusing on for EQN, which I like.

[skipdog]

Honestly, my only hope for this game is contested mobs and having many classes that are forced to group. If everybody can solo, everybody will solo and then the game is shit.

[Lisset]

In my opinion, there are 2 things that made EQ great.

1. Interdependence. With few exceptions, soloing was just a bad idea. It was always better xp to group and most classes NEED a group. You needed crowd control, healing, pullers, tanks, and utility classes. Because of this, you needed other classes. It wasn't like wow where everyone can fly where they want or rift where you can be any role. You actually had to depend on other players of different classes. You couldn't just take 6 people of any class and succeed. That was great.

2. Genuine risk. Corpse runs won't be in EQN, they've already said that. Corpse runs and xp loss add genuine risk to the game. You actually have to decide whether to attack that mob is worth losing xp and possibly wiping. You don't just run into an unknown area blindly knowing that it'll at worst cost you some money. It is this risk, this fear that make victories so sweet. THAT is where the crack in evercrack comes in.

[Naena]

I know pretty much everyone here hates the graphics, but honestly I like them. I was worried they were going to end up with terrible looking models like EQ2 had, and when they showed off their models I was glad they didn't look that bad. Though I'm probably also one of the few here that actually liked the graphics in WoW.

Yeah it's cartoony, but that will also mean it will age a lot better. Pretty much every game I have ever played that has gone for a realistic look ended up having bad looking player models. I couldn't even play Oblivion until I got mods to make the people not look so ugly.

[Borador]

Honestly, my only hope for this game is contested mobs and having many classes that are forced to group. If everybody can solo, everybody will solo and then the game is shit.ya this is a big concern of mine. I was the MT that "had" to log in or a raid of 40 couldn't play... That sucks... But there is a happy medium. If they make every class soloable no real tanks, supports, healers.... Its going to be a stupid game.

[Rudboy66]

I have no more faith in any new MMO's. The game design has just plain changed to make everything easy. Max level in a few days, all content instanced, everyone has all the best gear and it is easily attainable, UI's that do all the work for you, ADHD kids running around complaining how hard everything is in l33t speak, and then you get a "Gear Score" which is the real world equivalent of a "Credit Score". No thanks, I have no faith in EQ Next personally. :)

[Autotune]

I know you're just trolling, but seriously, look up the definition of High Fantasy, and then read LoTR and all the Conan stories, and then any other works that essentially borrow from and extend those universes, and then let's continue this silly conversation. Though I'm really hoping that by then you will understand how far away from the point your arguments are.

You mean all those books that talk about characters doing all of the things I already said... okay.

My argument is that you don't have one (unless you are talking about how the character models look). The combat is completely within "Realistic-ness" of EQ and EQ2 as well as DaoC and nearly any other "OMFG HIGH FANTASY" mmorpg you can think of.

The only reason you guys are making giant cockblowing faces is because of how the graphics look. You are mad cause you have Toontown clowns dancing a jig instead of your "HIGH FANTASY" expectation of McFaggyfaggerton Elf Commander Nightwatchman XXXassBlasterXXX

Let's all be real here. You can't have the game you want because kids don't want to look at that shit and parents don't want to buy their kid some MMO that looks to "real life" and there aren't enough uptight asspuckering prune guzzling high fantasy hipster grandpas running around to capitalize off of.

So jump on the gamplay you like and take the good with the bad or just bitch that you don't like looking at a fluffy kitty compared to a starved one.

[Medowin]

Everquest Next isn't Everquest. It uses the names of the races and locales but that's about it. The game itself seems more a cross between FF14 and Guild Wars 2.

However, I have no qualms about the graphics style. Sure, it's very different from typical EQ, but different doesn't mean bad. The chicks look hot, the guys look cool, and the monsters look badass. That's well enough for me. Being a purist isn't always necessary.

[eqravenprince]

A lot of you guys sound like grumpy old farts talking about how hard you use to have it and you young whippersnappers have it so easy. Getting all bent out of shape that companies didn't continue to make the same game over and over. I want a game so easy that even my wife could play, hard enough that I could be challenged, and casual enough that I don't have to block off hours just to accomplish anything.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Disney is consulting on the project, and allegedly the story arc of the lore of eqnext is basically just Finding Nemo, except with elves. From the upcoming trailer:

"In a world where a great Elven mage has lost his pet, only one thing matters: Finding Jabober."

[Weekapaug]

If I had to bet the farm, I would bet it will probably be a disappointment to most original EQ players, but some of these statements from people are hilarious.

The game isn't completed, no one has played it yet, but everyone know's exactly what it is and won't be.

How about waiting 'till you've played it before passing judgement, eh? Or at least get some real info when it's actually available. Sheesh.

[monti]

The fact that it's being ported to consoles makes me believe it will be easymode just like D3.

[Loto]

Everquest Next isn't Everquest. It uses the names of the races and locales but that's about it. The game itself seems more a cross between FF14 and Guild Wars 2.

However, I have no qualms about the graphics style. Sure, it's very different from typical EQ, but different doesn't mean bad. The chicks look hot, the guys look cool, and the monsters look badass. That's well enough for me. Being a purist isn't always necessary.

Seconded. It's a different game within the same franchise. The mechanics and visuals of LoZ: Ocarina of Time are very different from LoZ: Link's Awakening, but that doesn't detract from my ability to appreciate both or play both.

I'm probably most excited to see if/how they weave current EQ lore into EQNext lore, through similarities or direct differences.

Example - during the sand art intro they had a quote from Miragul Tah'Re - "Takish'Hiz will stand for eternity!" I would shit my pants to see a GM event(s) down the line about his betrayal of the kingdom and its subsequent downfall.

[eqravenprince]

The fact that it's being ported to consoles makes me believe it will be easymode just like D3.

Haven't read that it is going to consoles. Do you have a link to this information handy?

[Borador]

A lot of you guys sound like grumpy old farts talking about how hard you use to have it and you young whippersnappers have it so easy. Getting all bent out of shape that companies didn't continue to make the same game over and over. I want a game so easy that even my wife could play, hard enough that I could be challenged, and casual enough that I don't have to block off hours just to accomplish anything.I think people are just passionate about it. EQ was literally peoples lives. Sad or not. We have since watched MMOs turn into disposable wipes. What was once a full course meal, slowly enjoyed... Has turned into a 99c burrito you scarf down w/o even tasting it.

I realize you want your wife to play, great. I want my 4 foot 7 daughter with no athletic ability to play basketball but I don't expect them to lower the rim in a bball league. Sadly, gaming companies care more about the subscription and there are a lot more bad players paying than good players.

[monti]

Haven't read that it is going to consoles. Do you have a link to this information handy?

The gameplay, graphics requirements and next-gen console specs all point to console development in the works. Look at what happened with D3.

[Ahldagor]

If I had to bet the farm, I would bet it will probably be a disappointment to most original EQ players, but some of these statements from people are hilarious.

The game isn't completed, no one has played it yet, but everyone know's exactly what it is and won't be.

How about waiting 'till you've played it before passing judgement, eh? Or at least get some real info when it's actually available. Sheesh.

agreed, and i think some of this thread is people mitigating their hopes because a game like eq with current tech graphics would be very fun. we've been burned by the industry and now we sift through a lot of titles and find a few here or there to play for a bit. somehow i always end up emulating n64 and playing this project. i have a theory that we all want a similar level of care and attention to detail that created those games we love, but that's not how the industry works currently, unfortunately.

[t0lkien]

A lot of you guys sound like grumpy old farts talking about how hard you use to have it and you young whippersnappers have it so easy. Getting all bent out of shape that companies didn't continue to make the same game over and over. I want a game so easy that even my wife could play, hard enough that I could be challenged, and casual enough that I don't have to block off hours just to accomplish anything.

And a lot of you guys sound like inexperienced teenagers unused to the long history of anticipation/disappointment that is the games industry. Some of us have been around long enough to recognize empty rhetoric when we hear it, and to recognize the early design signs of failure. None of this is new; it's all gone down many times before. EQ Next has mediocrity written all over it from several perspectives, and with a couple of exceptions (the voxel tech is potentially fantastic, and the AI talk is exciting if completely empty at this point - I've been involved in trying to build something very similar to what they are double-rainbowing over, and I can almost guarantee what ships will be a shadow of all their grandoise panel speak). Those of us making the call would love to be wrong, but we're not. Let's refer to this discussion 6 months after the game ships and see.

By they way, you have a hundred games like that already at your disposal. You don't need to wait for a Sony version of Disney MMO in a vague, bastardized fantasy universe to start playing.

P.S. in regards to polling the player base for core design ideas, it just shows they lack a strong cohesive vision. It sounds great on paper, but produces really pretty horrid games. The absolute first sign of a potentially great game is the antithesis of this idea. Afterall, as someone once said (and as I have found to be true over and over again), a camel is a horse designed by committee. One designed by a database of PR percentages and fanbois is going to be an impressive frankenstein of fail.

[SCB]

The gameplay, graphics requirements and next-gen console specs all point to console development in the works. Look at what happened with D3.

D3 is objectively more difficult than D2.

Not quite sure what you're getting at.

[SCB]

And a lot of you guys sound like inexperienced teenagers unused to the long history of anticipation/disappointment that is the games industry. Some of us have been around long enough to recognize empty rhetoric when we hear it, and to recognize the early design signs of failure. None of this is new; it's all gone down many times before. EQ Next has mediocrity written all over it from several perspectives, and with a couple of exceptions (the voxel tech is potentially fantastic, and the AI talk is exciting if completely empty at this point - I've been involved in trying to build something very similar to what they are double-rainbowing over, and I can almost guarantee what ships will be a shadow of all their grandoise panel speak). Those of us making the call would love to be wrong, but we're not. Let's refer to this discussion 6 months after the game ships and see.

By they way, you have a hundred games like that already at your disposal. You don't need to wait for a Sony version of Disney MMO in a vague, bastardized fantasy universe to start playing.

P.S. in regards to polling the player base for core design ideas, it just shows they lack a strong cohesive vision. It sounds great on paper, but produces really pretty horrid games. The absolute first sign of a potentially great game is the antithesis of this idea. Afterall, as someone once said (and as I have found to be true over and over again), a camel is a horse designed by committee. One designed by a database of PR percentages and fanbois is going to be an impressive frankenstein of fail.

Literally everything you have ever typed on this forum has made me want to punch you in the face IRL.

This is infinitely nicer than my original rant I had posted here.

[Kika Maslyaka]

D3 is objectively more difficult than D2.

Not quite sure what you're getting at.

on a nightmare level maybe with retarded buffed up difficulty, that doesn't scale...

I so waited for D3, until they showed how classes worked and so many things don't make any logical sense in that game. Wizard get spell power from raw weapon damage? How retarded is that? So by holding a completely mundane giant ass axe my firebolt gets stronger? What happened to wands and staves? Who came up with that crap?

GW2 maybe weak for MMO, but its a lot better as spiritual successor to D2 than D3 (at least weapon to skills system makes sense there)

On EQN features: half of them will be dumbed down cause they won't work exactly as they are envisioned now, and another half gonna get scrapped completely cause they will run out of time/funds trying to sell it before next WoW expansion hits the shelves...

PS. Do we really NEED destructible environment? MMO supposed to be about hunting monsters and finding lost dungeons, not chopping wood and ore in order to build a mushroom farm (aka Teraria)

[thugcruncher]

see avatar, discussion over, may eq next die in the burning hells

[Potus]

EQNext looks like a cheep Korean WoW clone so I'm already completely disinterested in playing it.

[SCB]

on a nightmare level maybe with retarded buffed up difficulty, that doesn't scale...



You don't deserve to play good games if you don't play them properly. This is a classic EQ emulator server. Bitching about shit being inaccessible is fucking retarded.

You're bad and you should feel bad. D3 is the best Diablo game ever made, and it isn't even close.

[Autotune]

And a lot of you guys sound like inexperienced teenagers unused to the long history of anticipation/disappointment that is the games industry. Some of us have been around long enough to recognize empty rhetoric when we hear it, and to recognize the early design signs of failure. None of this is new; it's all gone down many times before. EQ Next has mediocrity written all over it from several perspectives, and with a couple of exceptions (the voxel tech is potentially fantastic, and the AI talk is exciting if completely empty at this point - I've been involved in trying to build something very similar to what they are double-rainbowing over, and I can almost guarantee what ships will be a shadow of all their grandoise panel speak). Those of us making the call would love to be wrong, but we're not. Let's refer to this discussion 6 months after the game ships and see.

By they way, you have a hundred games like that already at your disposal. You don't need to wait for a Sony version of Disney MMO in a vague, bastardized fantasy universe to start playing.

P.S. in regards to polling the player base for core design ideas, it just shows they lack a strong cohesive vision. It sounds great on paper, but produces really pretty horrid games. The absolute first sign of a potentially great game is the antithesis of this idea. Afterall, as someone once said (and as I have found to be true over and over again), a camel is a horse designed by committee. One designed by a database of PR percentages and fanbois is going to be an impressive frankenstein of fail.

Polling the player base could be for several reasons, but ultimately it's to sell more copies at release. "We care, we listen, we want to make the game you want!" It doesn't necessarily mean that they will add any of that crap (especially because they seem to have Fable syndrome /wrists).

I would love to see them come out with a decent non-cartoon MMO that actually has half the play value of classic WoW or classic EQ. Will anyone do it? Probably not, at least not anyone with $$$ to throw at it and some grand marketing to not only make a quality game with minimal bugs, but also attract a large player base.

The very thing you talk about, waiting to see how the game is 6 months after release, is the main reason games are now designed visually and marketed toward the younger generations. They will push to get the game at release and will help cover the cost of making the game and hopefully add some profits. If the game is fun (at least to some degree) and has very few bugs, word will spread and then 6 months down the road you will probably buy it as well.

Not saying that waiting is a bad thing, but the business model demands more money and they gotta eat too!

[t0lkien]

Yeah I agree. However, I wish game companies would leave me out of their business models. I don't care. If the game is good I'll play it. If it's not, I won't. You don't hear car manufacturers or clothing companies, or musicians, or movie makers harping on about how they need to eat and so trying to convince me of how I need to pay them a particular way. Just make the game because it's a good game. If they want to turn everything enjoyable into a business model and expose the revenue stream to me at every turn, they should go package food or something else mundane.

It's high time games companies took care of their own financial crap, stopped dumping it on the players, and started making what is worth making. The reason the industry is in such a nosedive right now is because all this marketing bullshit and money making motivation has strangled the creativity out of almost everything. The games suck as a result, and players are catching on to the fact and have stopped buying.

[eqravenprince]

And a lot of you guys sound like inexperienced teenagers unused to the long history of anticipation/disappointment that is the games industry. Some of us have been around long enough to recognize empty rhetoric when we hear it, and to recognize the early design signs of failure...

Played EQ from it's release in 1999 and tried multiple other MMO's. I was disappointed with other hyped up MMO's like Vanguard for example, but it didn't turn me into a grumpy old fart set in my ways. MMO's are not my life, if EQNext bombs, sure I'll be disappointed, but I'll just move on with my life. But congratulations on being the Nostradamus of MMO games on being able to recognize the early design signs of failure, maybe you should go work for SOE *rolls eyes*.

[Loftus]

Yeah I agree. However, I wish game companies would leave me out of their business models. I don't care. If the game is good I'll play it. If it's not, I won't. You don't hear car manufacturers or clothing companies, or musicians, or movie makers harping on about how they need to eat and so trying to convince me of how I need to pay them a particular way. Just make the game because it's a good game. If they want to turn everything enjoyable into a business model and expose the revenue stream to me at every turn, they should go package food or something else mundane.

It's high time games companies took care of their own financial crap, stopped dumping it on the players, and started making what is worth making. The reason the industry is in such a nosedive right now is because all this marketing bullshit and money making motivation has strangled the creativity out of almost everything. The games suck as a result, and players are catching on to the fact and have stopped buying.

Totally agreed. I've been out of the "beta testing while I pay" for some time now.

[Bruno]

Too many care bears now a days. Everyone votes they want contested content, but then they cry when it's actually implemented. Don't get your hopes up.

[t0lkien]

Literally everything you have ever typed on this forum has made me want to punch you in the face IRL.

This is infinitely nicer than my original rant I had posted here.

Time to step away from the keyboard, put down the mouse, and go outside then?

[t0lkien]

Played EQ from it's release in 1999 and tried multiple other MMO's. I was disappointed with other hyped up MMO's like Vanguard for example, but it didn't turn me into a grumpy old fart set in my ways. MMO's are not my life, if EQNext bombs, sure I'll be disappointed, but I'll just move on with my life. But congratulations on being the Nostradamus of MMO games on being able to recognize the early design signs of failure, maybe you should go work for SOE *rolls eyes*.

The tone of my post was ironic in response to the post I linked BTW. MMO's are part of the modern era of gaming. Games have been going since the 70's, and the cycle has been the same, is what I'm saying. Anyone who waited excitedly through years of development and then months for the released product to appear on shelves and THEN suffered disappointment knows what I'm talking about. People are complaining about others writing the game off so early (peppered with the usual forum insults - congratulations on doing the same), so I'm pointing out why that is so.

But I get it, you guys just want to rant and flame and scatter hyperbole without any solid discussion. Fair enough, this is the internet. Flame on.