Why Supreme is Wrong, and the Staff are Truly Embracing Collectivism

[Toehammer]

Speedo Bandito, Last of the Gnomehicans here to set the record straight:

The premise of the thread on Collectivism vs Individualism (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=121263) is completely friggin laughable. Not to mention that the whole idea of a team PvP framework is collectivist by nature... we will have teams, people working together to accomplish things. Right now Red99 is individualist, people PvPing anyone, griefing, and not growing!!! Your whole post is a selfish, lightly guised complaint that itself speaks to individualism and entitlement. Red99, unfortunately, was not as successful as we all wanted it to be.

Facts:

1) Red launch was awesome: >600 pop for ~1-2 weeks of casuals, hardcores, bluebies, reds, new people. I myself have always been blue... but as one experiences good hardcore PvP action, one turns purple. I now am neither blue nor red... I am purple.

2) After 2 weeks, it became clear that guard assist, mage swords, redwood wands, exploits, etc. were no longer a creeping mold but an atom bomb to the server. Things went downhill fast... but no, not for you.

3) The #1 guild, Nihilum rose from the ashes like a Phoenix, wielding Sword of Runes, and battling Lord Nagafen with > 50 DPS pets proccing swords through walls like whoa. Lovely's exploit army took the server by storm and stomped that sh!t! (Lovely was decent at PvP though...) Holocaust replicated this, but then got the ban hammer (lol!). You all (both guilds) deserved the punishment Holo got.

4) The annoying population on the server (Nihilum + Holo for the most part) has created a graveyard called Red99 and maintain it well both in game and on the forums. The funny thing about graveyards is that they are sometimes extremely beautiful on the outside with lush green pastures bearing memory to once living thriving people. However, just like Red99, they are built on decay, failed expectations, and rot. Beneath the lush green server that you frolic through Supreme, as you tend to the graves, is a place built on rotting earth.

As you sow, so shall you reap... and don't sh!t where you eat.

We are all very sorry for you that everyone else views the new PvP teams server (really a second shot at cool, non-griefing, non-exploiting) as a second chance, the true noble Phoenix to rise from the ashes of Red99. I am ecstatic at a chance to PvP again when it is fun.

I have my characters on Blue99, my entombed characters on Red99, and am waiting for the birth of my beautiful Teams99 character. You made your mausoleum... so you can either rot in it, or rise from the ashes. Your choice dude, but stop whining like a tool.

I, as the last remaining full member of Red Dawn (triple lol), took the Red99 server for what it was... my first true PvP experience in EQ, which was awesome when it seemed like it was going to go somewhere. But in between the exploiting, drama, griefers (not PvPers... I can handle them, and win >75% of the time), bugs, and lame guilds, Red99 still looks like a beautiful graveyard. But I lived there for over a year, and citizens who live around graveyards know the true story, and try not to embellish what they really are. Red99 is a Crypt that has been raped, pillaged, robbed (for RMT, omg lol) for everything by the very caretakers who try to usher more members into its ranks. I hope you enjoy exploring the catacombs you have built while we all fluorish in a new field of dreams. Red99 rotten to the core, from launch. The GMs have finally got things right, and the second coming is going to be beautiful.

Teams99, thriving! *No dragon exploits, mage swords, redwood wands, random griefing.

Is your body ready?

-Speedo Bandito, 54 Gnome Mage, Red99 (retired, floating over the Ocean of Tears)

* This comment not confirmed... expectant at best... one can be hopeful. I still actually believe, in general, people who populate Red servers are just bigger assholes by nature.

P.S. Nihilum is true blue, Holocaust was blood red, and every normal person on a PvP server is purple. Finally, a server for purples. No longer will EQ PvP rot away. Full potential shall be realized.

tl;dr Red99 failed, because of the people playing it. Teams99 will be pretty cool and a great outlet for people wanting to escape the grief-fest constructed on exploited ground of Red99 and people on Blue trying their hand at some new PvP experience (this time the right way) and trying to escape the c0ckblocked raid content by killing their competition. There is no competition on Red or Blue, get ready for Teams and some collectivist success, based on the individual's effort and ingenuity. My body is ready.

[indiscriminate_hater]

prose before ho's

beautiful piece

[Ghost of White Ranger]

tl;dr Red99 failed, because of the people playing it.

[Ghost of White Ranger]

^ hey now - Sirken has been solid. please remember what we had before !

[heartbrand]

Amelinda was good IMHO. She'd make a lot of bad calls but she was online 24/7 and you could talk to her in irc. Dunno she was always reasonable with me and it wasn't because of PayPal.

[Old_PVP]

Speedo Bandito, Last of the Gnomehicans here to set the record straight:

The premise of the thread on Collectivism vs Individualism (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=121263) is completely friggin laughable. Not to mention that the whole idea of a team PvP framework is collectivist by nature... we will have teams, people working together to accomplish things. Right now Red99 is individualist, people PvPing anyone, griefing, and not growing!!! Your whole post is a selfish, lightly guised complaint that itself speaks to individualism and entitlement. Red99, unfortunately, was not as successful as we all wanted it to be.

Facts:

1) Red launch was awesome: >600 pop for ~1-2 weeks of casuals, hardcores, bluebies, reds, new people. I myself have always been blue... but as one experiences good hardcore PvP action, one turns purple. I now am neither blue nor red... I am purple.

2) After 2 weeks, it became clear that guard assist, mage swords, redwood wands, exploits, etc. were no longer a creeping mold but an atom bomb to the server. Things went downhill fast... but no, not for you.

3) The #1 guild, Nihilum rose from the ashes like a Phoenix, wielding Sword of Runes, and battling Lord Nagafen with > 50 DPS pets proccing swords through walls like whoa. Lovely's exploit army took the server by storm and stomped that sh!t! (Lovely was decent at PvP though...) Holocaust replicated this, but then got the ban hammer (lol!). You all (both guilds) deserved the punishment Holo got.

4) The annoying population on the server (Nihilum + Holo for the most part) has created a graveyard called Red99 and maintain it well both in game and on the forums. The funny thing about graveyards is that they are sometimes extremely beautiful on the outside with lush green pastures bearing memory to once living thriving people. However, just like Red99, they are built on decay, failed expectations, and rot. Beneath the lush green server that you frolic through Supreme, as you tend to the graves, is a place built on rotting earth.

As you sow, so shall you reap... and don't sh!t where you eat.

We are all very sorry for you that everyone else views the new PvP teams server (really a second shot at cool, non-griefing, non-exploiting) as a second chance, the true noble Phoenix to rise from the ashes of Red99. I am ecstatic at a chance to PvP again when it is fun.

I have my characters on Blue99, my entombed characters on Red99, and am waiting for the birth of my beautiful Teams99 character. You made your mausoleum... so you can either rot in it, or rise from the ashes. Your choice dude, but stop whining like a tool.

I, as the last remaining full member of Red Dawn (triple lol), took the Red99 server for what it was... my first true PvP experience in EQ, which was awesome when it seemed like it was going to go somewhere. But in between the exploiting, drama, griefers (not PvPers... I can handle them, and win >75% of the time), bugs, and lame guilds, Red99 still looks like a beautiful graveyard. But I lived there for over a year, and citizens who live around graveyards know the true story, and try not to embellish what they really are. Red99 is a Crypt that has been raped, pillaged, robbed (for RMT, omg lol) for everything by the very caretakers who try to usher more members into its ranks. I hope you enjoy exploring the catacombs you have built while we all fluorish in a new field of dreams. Red99 rotten to the core, from launch. The GMs have finally got things right, and the second coming is going to be beautiful.

Teams99, thriving! *No dragon exploits, mage swords, redwood wands, random griefing.

Is your body ready?

-Speedo Bandito, 54 Gnome Mage, Red99 (retired, floating over the Ocean of Tears)

* This comment not confirmed... expectant at best... one can be hopeful. I still actually believe, in general, people who populate Red servers are just bigger assholes by nature.

P.S. Nihilum is true blue, Holocaust was blood red, and every normal person on a PvP server is purple. Finally, a server for purples. No longer will EQ PvP rot away. Full potential shall be realized.

tl;dr Red99 failed, because of the people playing it. Teams99 will be pretty cool and a great outlet for people wanting to escape the grief-fest constructed on exploited ground of Red99 and people on Blue trying their hand at some new PvP experience (this time the right way) and trying to escape the c0ckblocked raid content by killing their competition. There is no competition on Red or Blue, get ready for Teams and some collectivist success, based on the individual's effort and ingenuity. My body is ready.

A+ , would read again.

[Something'Witty]

Red99 failed, because of the people playing it.

And you don't think those same people will play on Teams99? Or maybe you think that a teams ruleset will protect you from them?

[Aenor]

prose before ho's

beautiful piece

+1 emu street cred

[Godefroi]

And you don't think those same people will play on Teams99? Or maybe that a teams ruleset will protect you from them?

[Hazek]

Pvpers like pvp. Carebears like PVE. No ruleset change involving pvp will convince carebears to reroll on a new pvp server. No ruleset change aside from a literal nerfbat every few months, or a wipe, or a high population could counter guild supremacy. red99 will never have a high population unless you take it upon yourself to actively advertise the server to find more players. Therefor, red99 will always be half dead or about to be wiped with one group of players inevitably rising to the top. A team server will only create the same issue with everyone eventually becoming carebears on the same zerg team.

Using this analysis, we can predict three outcomes. Red99 remains half dead until everyone quits. Red99 flourishes after every pvper promotes the server and increases the population by at least 200. Red99 is wiped, dies, or merges with a new red server with a different rule set and the same issues that cause it inevitably die or get wiped again with the same low population.

[Bogart]

Amelinda was good IMHO. She'd make a lot of bad calls but she was online 24/7 and you could talk to her in irc. Dunno she was always reasonable with me and it wasn't because of PayPal.

?

[Bogart]

exploits, bans, rules selectively enforced, GM corruption, might be a bigger problem. But hey lets blame those meany greifers.

[Something'Witty]

Red99 failed, because of the people playing it.

And you don't think those same people will play on Teams99? Or maybe you think that a teams ruleset will protect you from them?

Bump, cause I really want someone to answer these questions...

[Toehammer]

And you don't think those same people will play on Teams99? Or maybe you think that a teams ruleset will protect you from them?

Bump, cause I really want someone to answer these questions...

Well, the predominant reason that the people acted the way they did on Red99 was because they had the means. Mage swords, guard assist, redwood wands, dragon pathing, and the resist system (this still being worked on, admittedly) all were huge problems with the game on day 1 that people took advantage of to destroy the server before it ever achieved lift off.

So... yes, a new Teams99 server, where most of those wrinkles have been ironed out, has a great shot at success. I imagine it will at least double red's population 6 months to 1 year down the road.

So to answer your questions directly: Firstly, yes, I think the same emuPvP griefing crowd will play Teams99, and about 4x more people will try it out, much like opening day on red. But the rule set will drive better retention rates. Secondly, I am not worried about being "protected" from griefers... I can deal with them well. But a teams makeup will prevent the low level griefing from becoming as rampant in certain geographic locales, thus encouraging population growth.

The whole point of my original OP was that the way the griefers fluorished was by exploiting semi-broken rules/mechanics and that resulted in a low population, rampant RMT, and one guild unpunished that recruited the server. End result: ghost town.

I knew Red99 was dead when I camped seafuries from 51-53 on my mage, and didn't get attacked by or see another player in the zone once!

Griefers will exist, but is that your argument? The world is not black and white, and I am not foolhardy enough to say that a Teams99 server will cure Red99's proverbial achilles heel (the players' attitudes). However if you cannot see how the Teams99 rules coupled with fixed server-destroying bugs/exploits will decrease the amount of griefing, especially at low levels, then I got nothing else for ya. Server will do well... probably not as well as blue, but I am guessing somewhere right between red/blue.

Things are looking up!

[heals4reals]

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm74/andbruno/estoy_usando_el_internet.jpg

[Weekapaug]

Pvpers like pvp. Carebears like PVE. No ruleset change involving pvp will convince carebears to reroll on a new pvp server.

That is entirely untrue.

[Something'Witty]

Well, the predominant reason that the people acted the way they did on Red99 was because they had the means. Mage swords, guard assist, redwood wands, dragon pathing, and the resist system (this still being worked on, admittedly) all were huge problems with the game on day 1 that people took advantage of to destroy the server before it ever achieved lift off.

So... yes, a new Teams99 server, where most of those wrinkles have been ironed out, has a great shot at success. I imagine it will at least double red's population 6 months to 1 year down the road.

So to answer your questions directly: Firstly, yes, I think the same emuPvP griefing crowd will play Teams99, and about 4x more people will try it out, much like opening day on red. But the rule set will drive better retention rates. Secondly, I am not worried about being "protected" from griefers... I can deal with them well. But a teams makeup will prevent the low level griefing from becoming as rampant in certain geographic locales, thus encouraging population growth.

The whole point of my original OP was that the way the griefers fluorished was by exploiting semi-broken rules/mechanics and that resulted in a low population, rampant RMT, and one guild unpunished that recruited the server. End result: ghost town.

I knew Red99 was dead when I camped seafuries from 51-53 on my mage, and didn't get attacked by or see another player in the zone once!

Griefers will exist, but is that your argument? The world is not black and white, and I am not foolhardy enough to say that a Teams99 server will cure Red99's proverbial achilles heel (the players' attitudes). However if you cannot see how the Teams99 rules coupled with fixed server-destroying bugs/exploits will decrease the amount of griefing, especially at low levels, then I got nothing else for ya. Server will do well... probably not as well as blue, but I am guessing somewhere right between red/blue.

Things are looking up!

Good answer and you make valid points. "Griefers will exist" isn't exactly my argument, rather I think those same people at the start of R99 that everyone complains about, including you, will be back. Also, they don't need exploits to grief.

Finally, I don't mean to be an egotist and self cite, but:

New blood would be nice, but you have multiple players talking about how much they will grief everyone on the new server, which runs the risk of alienating the new players. I am starting to think that certain players are not interested in actually playing EQ (PvP or PvE), rather they find pleasure in others pain. Maybe some of the "box heroes" were AFK long enough so that most have forgotten they really just want to burn it all (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61XUb28jkUI).

[Lu|z Sect]

Speedo Bandito, Last of the Gnomehicans here to set the record straight:

The premise of the thread on Collectivism vs Individualism (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=121263) is completely friggin laughable. Not to mention that the whole idea of a team PvP framework is collectivist by nature... we will have teams, people working together to accomplish things. Right now Red99 is individualist, people PvPing anyone, griefing, and not growing!!! Your whole post is a selfish, lightly guised complaint that itself speaks to individualism and entitlement. Red99, unfortunately, was not as successful as we all wanted it to be.

Facts:

1) Red launch was awesome: >600 pop for ~1-2 weeks of casuals, hardcores, bluebies, reds, new people. I myself have always been blue... but as one experiences good hardcore PvP action, one turns purple. I now am neither blue nor red... I am purple.

2) After 2 weeks, it became clear that guard assist, mage swords, redwood wands, exploits, etc. were no longer a creeping mold but an atom bomb to the server. Things went downhill fast... but no, not for you.

3) The #1 guild, Nihilum rose from the ashes like a Phoenix, wielding Sword of Runes, and battling Lord Nagafen with > 50 DPS pets proccing swords through walls like whoa. Lovely's exploit army took the server by storm and stomped that sh!t! (Lovely was decent at PvP though...) Holocaust replicated this, but then got the ban hammer (lol!). You all (both guilds) deserved the punishment Holo got.

4) The annoying population on the server (Nihilum + Holo for the most part) has created a graveyard called Red99 and maintain it well both in game and on the forums. The funny thing about graveyards is that they are sometimes extremely beautiful on the outside with lush green pastures bearing memory to once living thriving people. However, just like Red99, they are built on decay, failed expectations, and rot. Beneath the lush green server that you frolic through Supreme, as you tend to the graves, is a place built on rotting earth.

As you sow, so shall you reap... and don't sh!t where you eat.

We are all very sorry for you that everyone else views the new PvP teams server (really a second shot at cool, non-griefing, non-exploiting) as a second chance, the true noble Phoenix to rise from the ashes of Red99. I am ecstatic at a chance to PvP again when it is fun.

I have my characters on Blue99, my entombed characters on Red99, and am waiting for the birth of my beautiful Teams99 character. You made your mausoleum... so you can either rot in it, or rise from the ashes. Your choice dude, but stop whining like a tool.

I, as the last remaining full member of Red Dawn (triple lol), took the Red99 server for what it was... my first true PvP experience in EQ, which was awesome when it seemed like it was going to go somewhere. But in between the exploiting, drama, griefers (not PvPers... I can handle them, and win >75% of the time), bugs, and lame guilds, Red99 still looks like a beautiful graveyard. But I lived there for over a year, and citizens who live around graveyards know the true story, and try not to embellish what they really are. Red99 is a Crypt that has been raped, pillaged, robbed (for RMT, omg lol) for everything by the very caretakers who try to usher more members into its ranks. I hope you enjoy exploring the catacombs you have built while we all fluorish in a new field of dreams. Red99 rotten to the core, from launch. The GMs have finally got things right, and the second coming is going to be beautiful.

Teams99, thriving! *No dragon exploits, mage swords, redwood wands, random griefing.

Is your body ready?

-Speedo Bandito, 54 Gnome Mage, Red99 (retired, floating over the Ocean of Tears)

* This comment not confirmed... expectant at best... one can be hopeful. I still actually believe, in general, people who populate Red servers are just bigger assholes by nature.

P.S. Nihilum is true blue, Holocaust was blood red, and every normal person on a PvP server is purple. Finally, a server for purples. No longer will EQ PvP rot away. Full potential shall be realized.

tl;dr Red99 failed, because of the people playing it. Teams99 will be pretty cool and a great outlet for people wanting to escape the grief-fest constructed on exploited ground of Red99 and people on Blue trying their hand at some new PvP experience (this time the right way) and trying to escape the c0ckblocked raid content by killing their competition. There is no competition on Red or Blue, get ready for Teams and some collectivist success, based on the individual's effort and ingenuity. My body is ready.

[heals4reals]

Speedo Bandito, Last of the Gnomehicans here to set the record straight:

The premise of the thread on Collectivism vs Individualism (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=121263) is completely friggin laughable. Not to mention that the whole idea of a team PvP framework is collectivist by nature... we will have teams, people working together to accomplish things. Right now Red99 is individualist, people PvPing anyone, griefing, and not growing!!! Your whole post is a selfish, lightly guised complaint that itself speaks to individualism and entitlement. Red99, unfortunately, was not as successful as we all wanted it to be.

Facts:

1) Red launch was awesome: >600 pop for ~1-2 weeks of casuals, hardcores, bluebies, reds, new people. I myself have always been blue... but as one experiences good hardcore PvP action, one turns purple. I now am neither blue nor red... I am purple.

2) After 2 weeks, it became clear that guard assist, mage swords, redwood wands, exploits, etc. were no longer a creeping mold but an atom bomb to the server. Things went downhill fast... but no, not for you.

3) The #1 guild, Nihilum rose from the ashes like a Phoenix, wielding Sword of Runes, and battling Lord Nagafen with > 50 DPS pets proccing swords through walls like whoa. Lovely's exploit army took the server by storm and stomped that sh!t! (Lovely was decent at PvP though...) Holocaust replicated this, but then got the ban hammer (lol!). You all (both guilds) deserved the punishment Holo got.

4) The annoying population on the server (Nihilum + Holo for the most part) has created a graveyard called Red99 and maintain it well both in game and on the forums. The funny thing about graveyards is that they are sometimes extremely beautiful on the outside with lush green pastures bearing memory to once living thriving people. However, just like Red99, they are built on decay, failed expectations, and rot. Beneath the lush green server that you frolic through Supreme, as you tend to the graves, is a place built on rotting earth.

As you sow, so shall you reap... and don't sh!t where you eat.

We are all very sorry for you that everyone else views the new PvP teams server (really a second shot at cool, non-griefing, non-exploiting) as a second chance, the true noble Phoenix to rise from the ashes of Red99. I am ecstatic at a chance to PvP again when it is fun.

I have my characters on Blue99, my entombed characters on Red99, and am waiting for the birth of my beautiful Teams99 character. You made your mausoleum... so you can either rot in it, or rise from the ashes. Your choice dude, but stop whining like a tool.

I, as the last remaining full member of Red Dawn (triple lol), took the Red99 server for what it was... my first true PvP experience in EQ, which was awesome when it seemed like it was going to go somewhere. But in between the exploiting, drama, griefers (not PvPers... I can handle them, and win >75% of the time), bugs, and lame guilds, Red99 still looks like a beautiful graveyard. But I lived there for over a year, and citizens who live around graveyards know the true story, and try not to embellish what they really are. Red99 is a Crypt that has been raped, pillaged, robbed (for RMT, omg lol) for everything by the very caretakers who try to usher more members into its ranks. I hope you enjoy exploring the catacombs you have built while we all fluorish in a new field of dreams. Red99 rotten to the core, from launch. The GMs have finally got things right, and the second coming is going to be beautiful.

Teams99, thriving! *No dragon exploits, mage swords, redwood wands, random griefing.

Is your body ready?

-Speedo Bandito, 54 Gnome Mage, Red99 (retired, floating over the Ocean of Tears)

* This comment not confirmed... expectant at best... one can be hopeful. I still actually believe, in general, people who populate Red servers are just bigger assholes by nature.

P.S. Nihilum is true blue, Holocaust was blood red, and every normal person on a PvP server is purple. Finally, a server for purples. No longer will EQ PvP rot away. Full potential shall be realized.

tl;dr Red99 failed, because of the people playing it. Teams99 will be pretty cool and a great outlet for people wanting to escape the grief-fest constructed on exploited ground of Red99 and people on Blue trying their hand at some new PvP experience (this time the right way) and trying to escape the c0ckblocked raid content by killing their competition. There is no competition on Red or Blue, get ready for Teams and some collectivist success, based on the individual's effort and ingenuity. My body is ready.

honestly hadnt read it until now

good read well done

supreme mia since

[Acrux Bcrux]

I love all the smack that you red folk talk about blue, then yall come here with your tears. Go back to your own forums kk thx bye gg hf dd

[webrunner5]

I pretty much don't understand why a lot of people bitch about "some" people on Red griefing all the time. Duh, isn't that sort of the idea about a PvP server?? What, 3 days a week you are allowed to grief, the other 4 not? Or Unrest is fair game but Crushbone is not??

Like I said I have tried it off and on many times and I get pissed as hell. But some people gets their rocks off playing it, sadly for Red only about 30 of them it looks like.

Teams99 will do just what my old Squadron Motto was, "Stall, Spin, Crash, Burn, and Die". :(

[Toehammer]

Good answer and you make valid points. "Griefers will exist" isn't exactly my argument, rather I think those same people at the start of R99 that everyone complains about, including you, will be back. Also, they don't need exploits to grief.

Finally, I don't mean to be an egotist and self cite, but:New blood would be nice, but you have multiple players talking about how much they will grief everyone on the new server, which runs the risk of alienating the new players. I am starting to think that certain players are not interested in actually playing EQ (PvP or PvE), rather they find pleasure in others pain. Maybe some of the "box heroes" were AFK long enough so that most have forgotten they really just want to burn it all (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61XUb28jkUI).

I always laugh at the "burn it all" crowd. Either we are keeping arsonists of the streets, and thus we should make as many servers as possible to burn, or there really are just lots of lonely dudes out there in dire need of poon, and we are saving healthy women from their nerd rage boners. Either way, battling the morlocks and occupying their time while wasting our own, is a net positive in the universe. Every coin has two sides!

I love all the smack that you red folk talk about blue, then yall come here with your tears. Go back to your own forums kk thx bye gg hf dd

Just like not every body on blue are mouthbreathing batphoners, red is not entirely bad. I play on both servers... playing/raiding on blue can be like waiting in 10 hours at an amusement ride. Red is like playing tetherball with yourself. Trying to recruit for a new teams server which is essentially like hard coded guilds battling over content. Sounds pretty friggin awesome. Blue has no competition, and on red, there are not enough competitors but isolated 1v1 fun times. Sounds like meeting in the middle is a match made in heaven. Nobody is making you play or click on the forum threads.

[Toehammer]

I pretty much don't understand why a lot of people bitch about "some" people on Red griefing all the time. Duh, isn't that sort of the idea about a PvP server?? What, 3 days a week you are allowed to grief, the other 4 not? Or Unrest is fair game but Crushbone is not??

Like I said I have tried it off and on many times and I get pissed as hell. But some people gets their rocks off playing it, sadly for Red only about 30 of them it looks like.

Teams99 will do just what my old Squadron Motto was, "Stall, Spin, Crash, Burn, and Die". :(

The idea about PvP is not to grief all the time. It is about battling something smarter than AI and having cool fights/memories. I started EQ back in Beta in 1998, played 4-5 years on blue servers, and then 3 years here on P1999 red/blue. The first day of Red99 was the single best EQ time I ever experienced. Groups, guerrilla warfare, sniping missions, always checking /who. It gave EQ, normally a slow-paced game, the option to have extremely tense moments... something we all probably don't see as much after playing it through a few times. PvP and competition gives the game more replay value. The only other time that comes close to Red99 launch was the first day of 1998 Beta, when I saw the snow falling in 3D Everfrost as I descended down the ramp from Halas. Red99 launch rekindled the EQ flame. Snuffed out quickly though. Teams99 reignition!

[heartbrand]

I love all the smack that you red folk talk about blue, then yall come here with your tears. Go back to your own forums kk thx bye gg hf dd

How's VP going for you? Get a crown of rile yet? Wait you're being trained by TMO and you can't do anything about it? Sounds fun good luck, I'm sure velious will be promising for you with many vulak and ST loots (lol).

[carli]

Personally I can't wait for teams99. Never tried eqpvp, I do have a lowbie on red but I've never seen another player yet. Kinda gave up and looking forward to the big boom of the new server. Who needs a no-lifer in their crew?! It seems like a great way to integrate pvpers old and new. *anxiously awaiting*

[Nirgon]

Oh Supreme is wrong, tell me something else new

[Something'Witty]

I always laugh at the "burn it all" crowd.

Ditto, not my idea of fun. On my short tenure on R99, griefing hasn't ever been an issue. However, during that time the majority of the infamous R99 players seem to have been somewhat AFK. I fear that a new server will just draw them back, like a moth to a flame.

[Smedy]

Speedo Bandito, Last of the Gnomehicans here to set the record straight:

The premise of the thread on Collectivism vs Individualism (http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=121263) is completely friggin laughable. Not to mention that the whole idea of a team PvP framework is collectivist by nature... we will have teams, people working together to accomplish things. Right now Red99 is individualist, people PvPing anyone, griefing, and not growing!!! Your whole post is a selfish, lightly guised complaint that itself speaks to individualism and entitlement. Red99, unfortunately, was not as successful as we all wanted it to be.

Facts:

1) Red launch was awesome: >600 pop for ~1-2 weeks of casuals, hardcores, bluebies, reds, new people. I myself have always been blue... but as one experiences good hardcore PvP action, one turns purple. I now am neither blue nor red... I am purple.

2) After 2 weeks, it became clear that guard assist, mage swords, redwood wands, exploits, etc. were no longer a creeping mold but an atom bomb to the server. Things went downhill fast... but no, not for you.

3) The #1 guild, Nihilum rose from the ashes like a Phoenix, wielding Sword of Runes, and battling Lord Nagafen with > 50 DPS pets proccing swords through walls like whoa. Lovely's exploit army took the server by storm and stomped that sh!t! (Lovely was decent at PvP though...) Holocaust replicated this, but then got the ban hammer (lol!). You all (both guilds) deserved the punishment Holo got.

4) The annoying population on the server (Nihilum + Holo for the most part) has created a graveyard called Red99 and maintain it well both in game and on the forums. The funny thing about graveyards is that they are sometimes extremely beautiful on the outside with lush green pastures bearing memory to once living thriving people. However, just like Red99, they are built on decay, failed expectations, and rot. Beneath the lush green server that you frolic through Supreme, as you tend to the graves, is a place built on rotting earth.

As you sow, so shall you reap... and don't sh!t where you eat.

We are all very sorry for you that everyone else views the new PvP teams server (really a second shot at cool, non-griefing, non-exploiting) as a second chance, the true noble Phoenix to rise from the ashes of Red99. I am ecstatic at a chance to PvP again when it is fun.

I have my characters on Blue99, my entombed characters on Red99, and am waiting for the birth of my beautiful Teams99 character. You made your mausoleum... so you can either rot in it, or rise from the ashes. Your choice dude, but stop whining like a tool.

I, as the last remaining full member of Red Dawn (triple lol), took the Red99 server for what it was... my first true PvP experience in EQ, which was awesome when it seemed like it was going to go somewhere. But in between the exploiting, drama, griefers (not PvPers... I can handle them, and win >75% of the time), bugs, and lame guilds, Red99 still looks like a beautiful graveyard. But I lived there for over a year, and citizens who live around graveyards know the true story, and try not to embellish what they really are. Red99 is a Crypt that has been raped, pillaged, robbed (for RMT, omg lol) for everything by the very caretakers who try to usher more members into its ranks. I hope you enjoy exploring the catacombs you have built while we all fluorish in a new field of dreams. Red99 rotten to the core, from launch. The GMs have finally got things right, and the second coming is going to be beautiful.

Teams99, thriving! *No dragon exploits, mage swords, redwood wands, random griefing.

Is your body ready?

-Speedo Bandito, 54 Gnome Mage, Red99 (retired, floating over the Ocean of Tears)

* This comment not confirmed... expectant at best... one can be hopeful. I still actually believe, in general, people who populate Red servers are just bigger assholes by nature.

P.S. Nihilum is true blue, Holocaust was blood red, and every normal person on a PvP server is purple. Finally, a server for purples. No longer will EQ PvP rot away. Full potential shall be realized.

tl;dr Red99 failed, because of the people playing it. Teams99 will be pretty cool and a great outlet for people wanting to escape the grief-fest constructed on exploited ground of Red99 and people on Blue trying their hand at some new PvP experience (this time the right way) and trying to escape the c0ckblocked raid content by killing their competition. There is no competition on Red or Blue, get ready for Teams and some collectivist success, based on the individual's effort and ingenuity. My body is ready.

great post man, would read again.

excited for the teams server!

[Nirgon]

The place nice policy and staff intervention for its cause was created for a reason on live.

They realized the game would be destroyed and that the sand box needed wardens.

See things like the earring of sad explotation story, or GM Ozuri coming to Rallos Zek.

A server with allowed corpse camping and selectively enforced policies will fail. Bugs don't help.

Launch was very fun for a while until you know who did the only thing he knows how to do, 'sploit.

My door is open.

[Vohl]

I'd have fun on a new server, regardless of rules set. The lack of twinking makes for a very different, challenging game.