Gauranteed Raid Scene Fix

[porigromus]

Someone posted in another thread, posing a question "What can be done about the Proj99 raid scene? I believe a fair system could be created. You can't fix the raiding issues in classic trilogy EQ without customizing. If you are going to customize with variance to try to fix the raid scene, then you are willing to customize to "improve" things. To me that puts all ideas on the table to improve the raid scene.

I propose:

1. Each raid mob is in a "enraged" state, the damage would instantly kill anyone without a special item to remove it.

2. Each item that removes the enraged state for each raid mob has a percentage chance to randomly drop from any mob on the server once the raid mob spawns.

3. After the item drops for someone on the server. It will not drop again during the current spawn cycle unless it is unused within 24hrs after being dropped. If unused within 24 hours, the item will disappear.

4. If used, it will be available once again next spawn cycle. The enraged state will be removed. This guild will now have a chance to kill the raid mob. If the guild wipes, another force may now go for the mob if they have a force ready. At this point the mob will not enrage again, the current raid rules apply (FTE, etc).

5. The item can be traded to other users. This gives the ordinary guy a way to make some plat.

There you have it, a fixed system. Anyone, I mean anyone can have a "key" to unlocking a raid target. If someone isn't guilded, they can use it to obtain plat or items they want by selling or trading it. If a guild member with a raid force finds it, then they get a shot at a raid target.

Please tell me how this system could be abused? Someone could find a enrage removing item and sit on it ... but it poofs in 24hrs, allowing it to drop once again. If it is used and a raid force doesn't kill it .. it is fair game. It isn't no longer enraged and I guarantee it will be killed shortly after.

Again, if we are open to customization of the raid scene to try to improve it, which we are obviously looking at variance. It was added to the game to help improve the raid scene and wasn't in classic. If we are customizing to create a solution, let's put on our thinking caps to come up with the most fair unbiased system that has the least chance of being abused. My two cents ...

[fastboy21]

its not that ideas like this aren't possible for addressing classic raid issues...its that they just aren't legit classic solutions.

go look at toop's server...you get tokens or something like that to spawn raid mobs each week. sure, solutions like this cut out the poop socking and the griefing, but it throws out the baby with the bath water by killing the competitive raid scene.

[SCB]

I honestly think this would just cause geared level 60s to aoe the shit out of every dungeon in the game, even low level stuff like CB/Runnyeye/Blackburrow, because sheer volume of mob kills will guarantee the most chances at big targets.

[porigromus]

I honestly think this would just cause geared level 60s to aoe the shit out of every dungeon in the game, even low level stuff like CB/Runnyeye/Blackburrow, because sheer volume of mob kills will guarantee the most chances at big targets.

Yes they could try to kill things till they get it, but at least everyone would have a chance to get them too. Now at least they would actually be playing the game instead of logging in for a few minutes to kill a raid mob. The mobs that drop the items could be adjusted if ALL mobs would cause an issue. Maybe the 40 - 60 mobs would have a higher chance of dropping them items than lower levels? You could also have only 50 - 60 mobs drop the items, since they are the folks that would actually need them. Every guild would have a fighting chance at those levels to obtain the item, instead of TMO dominating each target with a boat load of multiple alts.

And to the fella saying it isn't a classic solution ... variance isn't either. We are already customizing to try to improve things. If this is the goal let's put our thinking caps on.

[Cecily]

Too many words and numbers =/

[spoils]

lol at most retarded solution i have ever seen

[porigromus]

Too many words and numbers =/


I guess so if you are in TMO :) Any solution that might give another guild a chance is bad.

[Tasslehofp99]

Yeah, no.


Just remove training, add simulated patch days, remove nonclassic variance, actually enforce rules (or don't at all) and the raid scene will fix itself.

[Pringles]

Fix implies its broken. This is exactly how it was on live. Want a mob? Camp it, kill it, mobilize for it first.

[Tasslehofp99]

Fix implies its broken. This is exactly how it was on live. Want a mob? Camp it, kill it, mobilize for it first.

Its very broken. We already have several non-classic custom rules on p99: training allowed in vp, pnp unenforced, variance, etc.

You either aren't in a raiding guild or you're in TMO and have no idea how the rest of the server views the raid scene.

[porigromus]

Yeah, no.


Just remove training, add simulated patch days, remove nonclassic variance, actually enforce rules (or don't at all) and the raid scene will fix itself.

Instances were created because of problems like this. I think the enrage system would work as well but leave some competition in place. Guilds would have to grind mobs to find the items to remove enrage states.

Anyway, if people do not like this idea. I would really like to hear other creative ideas. Simulated patch days are not going to do much if anything and the staff shouldn't have to babysit everyone.

Here you go, once someone engages a raid mob, they become PvP enabled for a time. Let people settle it with PvP. I just don't like any ideas that involve the staff having to hold hands and monitor people. It is just a waste of time for them.

[Lune]

raid scene is fine, shut up and pay TMO 600k if you want your epic-- while they laugh and twirl their mustaches

[Cecily]

"Creative ideas" are cute but do the rest of us a favor and please be concise.

[Tasslehofp99]

In the last month I've seen 5 different occasions of server rules being broken, by two different guilds...FE/TMO. Only one guild has been "raid suspended" between FE&TMO, yet both sides have broken rules. All it takes is a fraps to prove this, and in the past fraps has been used as a determinant in the GMs suspending FE.

There's no reason why the rules can't be enforced without GMs having to hold peoples hands. The issue is the rules are literally enforced randomly and inconsistenly. I can't help but feel a little bit cheated by the fact FE has been handed 2 raiding suspensions for training and TMO has yet to receive one...but they sure as shit have trained in the past.

Just last week we were told fraps is not used to determine whether or not a guild intentionally trains another by a GM. Yet we have been suspended twice with fraps being the evidence used against us. Personally I have tons of fraps of TMO kiting, training, etc but nothing ever comes of it when submitted. Its gotten to the point now that we don't know whats true because ephi says fraps doesn't count, yet sirken has used fraps as evidence in handing FE a raid suspension on numerous occasions.

The reason I'm saying this is because this is one example of the inconsistencies on p99 in regards to the rules.

Just have concrete rules, enforcement of those rules, and then remove all of this nonclassic shit like variance and sanctioned training and the raiding scene will truly fix itself.

[runlvlzero]

Everytime you take a faction hit on an engaged raid mob (or a mob dies with you on its hate list, for the ones missing faction)

It resets you to level 1 and gives you a cumulative 10% xp penalty.

[Cecily]

Everytime you take a faction hit on an engaged raid mob (or a mob dies with you on its hate list, for the ones missing faction)

It resets you to level 1 and gives you a cumulative 10% xp penalty.

Concise. High quality idea.

In the last month I've seen 5 different occasions of server rules being broken, by two different guilds...FE/TMO. Only one guild has been "raid suspended" between FE&TMO, yet both sides have broken rules. All it takes is a fraps to prove this, and in the past fraps has been used as a determinant in the GMs suspending FE.

There's no reason why the rules can't be enforced without GMs having to hold peoples hands. The issue is the rules are literally enforced randomly and inconsistenly. I can't help but feel a little bit cheated by the fact FE has been handed 2 raiding suspensions for training and TMO has yet to receive one...but they sure as shit have trained in the past.

Just last week we were told fraps is not used to determine whether or not a guild intentionally trains another by a GM. Yet we have been suspended twice with fraps being the evidence used against us. Personally I have tons of fraps of TMO kiting, training, etc but nothing ever comes of it when submitted. Its gotten to the point now that we don't know whats true because ephi says fraps doesn't count, yet sirken has used fraps as evidence in handing FE a raid suspension on numerous occasions.

The reason I'm saying this is because this is one example of the inconsistencies on p99 in regards to the rules.

Just have concrete rules, enforcement of those rules, and then remove all of this nonclassic shit like variance and sanctioned training and the raiding scene will truly fix itself.

Long winded rant that won't be read. See the difference?

[Tasslehofp99]

Long winded rant for someone who's lazy and has no interest in fixing the raid scene or removing non classic features on p99 maybe.

[Cecily]

I'm just saying compact your crazy into smaller, easier to swallow portions.

[heartbrand]

threads like these are why I'll never understand why guilds like FE don't roll on red

[JayN]

if casuals ran everquest...


threads like these is why TMO is on top; people have no fucking clue whats going on

[Ahldagor]

I propose:

1. Each raid mob is in a "enraged" state, the damage would instantly kill anyone without a special item to remove it.

2. Each item that removes the enraged state for each raid mob has a percentage chance to randomly drop from any mob on the server once the raid mob spawns.

3. After the item drops for someone on the server. It will not drop again during the current spawn cycle unless it is unused within 24hrs after being dropped. If unused within 24 hours, the item will disappear.

4. If used, it will be available once again next spawn cycle. The enraged state will be removed. This guild will now have a chance to kill the raid mob. If the guild wipes, another force may now go for the mob if they have a force ready. At this point the mob will not enrage again, the current raid rules apply (FTE, etc).

5. The item can be traded to other users. This gives the ordinary guy a way to make some plat.

There you have it, a fixed system. Anyone, I mean anyone can have a "key" to unlocking a raid target. If someone isn't guilded, they can use it to obtain plat or items they want by selling or trading it. If a guild member with a raid force finds it, then they get a shot at a raid target.




http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m4x4d9t9Dk1rrifv1o6_500.gif

[JayN]

http://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/picture/kingoptimo02/PaintChips.png

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

I suggest the devs turn TMO into something akin to a public utility. Regulate it, and allow everyone on the server to join. Then a rigorous DKP system can be implemented + a "no alts" policy for loot ranking.

This would eliminate server drama since everyone is in the same guild, and with strict policies on loot eligibility meaning everyone eventually gets stuff on their main, everyone is happy.

You're welcome.

[JayN]

I suggest the devs turn TMO into something akin to a public utility. Regulate it, and allow everyone on the server to join. Then a rigorous DKP system can be implemented + a "no alts" policy for loot ranking.

This would eliminate server drama since everyone is in the same guild, and with strict policies on loot eligibility meaning everyone eventually gets stuff on their main, everyone is happy.

You're welcome.

Then everyone's happy, your welcome

What the shit lmfao

[quido]

item based rotation?

[Tasslehofp99]

Just need to remove variance, remove training in VP, and enforce the.rules already in place consistently and fairly.

There, raiding scene fixxed.

[Cecily]

Or we could have every raid mob "locked" like it enrage death touches you until you find these items that are all over the world. And you give them to the boss and he's like well done you may kill me now. Raid scene fixed.

[JayN]

please just give hoff a robe of the spring so he can quit and r*T, like the rest of his buddies

[Morgander]

Fix implies its broken. This is exactly how it was on live. Want a mob? Camp it, kill it, mobilize for it first.

Mechanically, Everquest was created two-fold: The initial mechanical intention was to give a slew of tools to players, coupled with content in which to utilize those tools. The second was to understand how players would come together creatively to utilize their single most important tool: each other.

To cooperate.

You're absolutely right. Everquest was mechanically created for an environment that, using the potential for just what you've dictated, entices a slew of communal fighting in order to step on each other in an effort to becoming the "best".

OR

Everquest was mechanically created for an environment that, using the potential for players to band together and assist one another, share and benefit each other, and overall band together in communities to do great and wonderful things.

Kinda like the nations of the world who've done the same.

The Everquest you speak of is to the world more akin to the ravaging gangs and warlords of Africa than the socialistic, benevolent, free-thinking top world countries like Sweden.

Hell, even the U.S. doesn't work this way. There's such a thing as competition, but there are rules to make sure that the most powerful can't just out right ruin all the other competition.

They have no rules like that in the aforementioned regions of Africa where gang and warlord violence rape, pillage, and murder on a daily basis.

This thought of "kill or be killed", is such an archaic, simple-minded idea propagated only by those who do not care about anyone other than their own tribe.

We had this already. It was called the dark ages. It's 2013 now. Time to be good little boys and girls and work together for a better Everquest (world).

Yup.

[b00ls]

Or we could all just play EverQuest and quit bitching 24/7 about other guilds and "the system is flawed." Raid scene fixed.

[Tasslehofp99]

please just give hoff a robe of the spring so he can quit and r*T, like the rest of his buddies

I prefer ES BP as a halfling honestly, keep on trolling.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Mechanically, Everquest was created two-fold: The initial mechanical intention was to give a slew of tools to players, coupled with content in which to utilize those tools. The second was to understand how players would come together creatively to utilize their single most important tool: each other.

To cooperate.

You're absolutely right. Everquest was mechanically created for an environment that, using the potential for just what you've dictated, entices a slew of communal fighting in order to step on each other in an effort to becoming the "best".

OR

Everquest was mechanically created for an environment that, using the potential for players to band together and assist one another, share and benefit each other, and overall band together in communities to do great and wonderful things.

Kinda like the nations of the world who've done the same.

The Everquest you speak of is to the world more akin to the ravaging gangs and warlords of Africa than the socialistic, benevolent, free-thinking top world countries like Sweden.

Hell, even the U.S. doesn't work this way. There's such a thing as competition, but there are rules to make sure that the most powerful can't just out right ruin all the other competition.

They have no rules like that in the aforementioned regions of Africa where gang and warlord violence rape, pillage, and murder on a daily basis.

This thought of "kill or be killed", is such an archaic, simple-minded idea propagated only by those who do not care about anyone other than their own tribe.

We had this already. It was called the dark ages. It's 2013 now. Time to be good little boys and girls and work together for a better Everquest (world).

Yup.

I would definitely play on a Swedish server. If you kill the right sequence of mobs, the Swedish Chef could be unleashed on Norrath, moving from zone to zone, borking the fuck out of everything.

[JayN]

I would definitely play on a Swedish server. If you kill the right sequence of mobs, the Swedish Chef could be unleashed on Norrath, moving from zone to zone, borking the fuck out of everything.
This sounds like a "waking the sleeper" reference lol

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

http://www.sheawong.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/swedish-chef.gif

Dual wield, and that's an ae rampage. You can't do shit against the Swedish Chef once he gets going.

[Fawqueue]

Even better solution: Lets just instance all raid targets so casuals will have a fair chance and everyone will be happy!

Or wait, that's what ruined EverQuest the first time around...

Raiding isn't broken, it's just that we're in this incredibly lazy period in our server's history right now. I've been around a long time and I've seen the top guild (which always endures immense hate) change hands many times. Right now it's TMO's reign, but before I took a break from the server TMO wasn't even number 3. They were battling my small guild for planar scraps. But they were ambitious and driven enough to push forward and get to where they are now.

So what we need is less griping about custom changes or staff interference, and more hungry players organizing and getting ready to be a real challenger. If TMO starts slipping like every guild before it, someone just needs to be ready to take over.

[Tasslehofp99]

Some of us enjoy fair competition, which p99 does not offer.

[YendorLootmonkey]

I guess so if you are in TMO :) Any solution that might give another guild a chance is bad.

Nah, then Cecily would just go and join THAT guild. ;)

[Visual]

on every other tuesday except during natural disasters raid mobs should warp around the zones until a paladin engages it with a finely crafted Shan'Tok. It will then spam instant Cheals until you cast Okeils radiation on it at which point it will DT itself.

Gauranteed Raid Scene Fix

[Fawqueue]

Some of us enjoy fair competition, which p99 does not offer.

You will usually see this statement by the have-nots. Give this man everything his heart desires even at the cost of others missing out, and suddenly this statement will become "If you really wanted it bad enough you'd work for it like I did".

Life.

[Cecily]

Nah, then Cecily would just go and join THAT guild. ;)

Exactly. And I like TMO very much so please don't do that. Sucks not being guided with you anymore, Yendor. I really do miss your sermons.

[Alarti0001]

Nah, then Cecily would just go and join THAT guild. ;)

Yendor doesn't guild hop... he just stops playing. That is better ... right?

[Zuranthium]

You will usually see this statement by the have-nots. Give this man everything his heart desires even at the cost of others missing out, and suddenly this statement will become "If you really wanted it bad enough you'd work for it like I did".

Life.

People whose opinions change like that are called Republicans. There are plenty of other people who have wealth and realize that society needs to provide real opportunities for everyone. They are called Democrats.

[Buma]

I posted this on the other thread.

Quote from me.

The only thing I can think of that would fix this is if you log out in any raid area or where a raid target spawns your character gets ported back to a single area like maybe near EC tunnel or something if you are logged out longer than 15min. It can be done, question is where to start. To code a entire zone loc from x,y,z and have it send them to a specific spot when they log back in if after 15min.

This would certainly keep people from playing the I got technology you lose mentality. Technology in this case meaning instant chat, cell texting etc...Classic for sure didn't have these easy things for people to use in 1999-2000. You simply went by kill timers if you were lucky to know the last time killed or simply got lucky with your guilds spot checkers (monks, rogues, wizards etc.).

[Wrei]

It's a nice attempt at trying to find a solution. The random item distribution would need to have a different way of getting active. If each mob regardless of level had a chance to pop it then entire zones would get aoe'd 24/7. Even if it's a 1% increase raiders will do so at the expense of the general populace. If you aren't having it drop randomly then we're really talking about item rotation since GM's would what send these tokens to various raiding guilds? At which point a lot would oppose it since it's like creating a ghetto instance system.

For the whiners that harp about how this isn't classic. VARIANCE IS NOT CLASSIC. Get that through your head. The current system is only in place because apparently the devs decided it is the best of a lot of shitty ideas. I find it hilarious some of you try to find a moral high ground on the current raid scene. When Variance gets removed eventually for w/e other bright ideas, then perhaps you'll have a legitimate reason to tell people to suck it up and grind for your pixels.

PS: I still don't understand why we can't give no variance a test drive for a month with the current FTE mechanics implemented. What would it really hurt? TMO will still get most of the loots simply by being able to log on more bodies than any other guilds. At least this way they'll have to prioritize their targets and send their core members to the ones they can't afford to wipe. While giving the rest of the server a shot or two at a boss that's been outdated since 99.

[Absynthe2k5]

its not that ideas like this aren't possible for addressing classic raid issues...its that they just aren't legit classic solutions.

go look at toop's server...you get tokens or something like that to spawn raid mobs each week. sure, solutions like this cut out the poop socking and the griefing, but it throws out the baby with the bath water by killing the competitive raid scene.

It's classic Everquest, there really isn't any competition, those mobs have been beat like red headed step children for 15 years... Why exactly do folks keep defending poop-socking and greed when they supposedly come to these type servers for nostalgia and fun. Sheer greed talking imo. The only time this argument becomes remotely defensible is when it's in pvp and a team/guild has to protect their tiers. That honestly is a cop out too, but a valid strat. If folks really wanted fun/challenging pvp they would let the other lower folks gear a bit for a better challenge.

my 2cp

[SamwiseRed]

its not that ideas like this aren't possible for addressing classic raid issues...its that they just aren't legit classic solutions.

go look at toop's server...you get tokens or something like that to spawn raid mobs each week. sure, solutions like this cut out the poop socking and the griefing, but it throws out the baby with the bath water by killing the competitive raid scene.

lol whats competitive about who can stay on the longest with the most people? when you say competitve, i think of something that takes skill. out poopsocking != beating them. this is blue, the only competition here is who can remain unemployed the longest and still soak up obama bucks.

[Lune]

The competition on p99 is fair.

The real problem is, the competition itself is like seeing who can drag their ballsack through the most fire-ant nests. It's not fun, it's not compelling, it's the single greatest fundamental weakness of classic EQ, amplified by unique circumstances on p99-- primarily a disproportionately high population of high level players and slow progress through expansions.

Just gonna have to deal with it. If you hate TMO for what they do, treat them like shit, don't associate with them, don't buy their MQ's. Otherwise, don't bitch about it.

[b00ls]

The competition on p99 is fair.

The real problem is, the competition itself is like seeing who can drag their ballsack through the most fire-ant nests. It's not fun, it's not compelling, it's the single greatest fundamental weakness of classic EQ, amplified by unique circumstances on p99-- primarily a disproportionately high population of high level players and slow progress through expansions.

Just gonna have to deal with it. If you hate TMO for what they do, treat them like shit, don't associate with them, don't buy their MQ's. Otherwise, don't bitch about it.

FUCKING THIS^^^^

[YendorLootmonkey]

Yendor doesn't guild hop... he just stops playing. That is better ... right?

I log on 3-4 nights a week... but you've never been one to let the truth stand in the way of your posts.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Sucks not being guided with you anymore, Yendor. I really do miss your sermons.

I imagine the ones about being loyal to your guild and friends sting a bit after guildhopping after pixels, so I sense some sarcasm here.

[Clark]

http://s12.postimg.org/qe5l6in6l/663dazed_and_confused_199.jpg

I imagine the ones about being loyal to your guild and friends sting a bit after guildhopping after pixels

[Arteker]

I imagine the ones about being loyal to your guild and friends sting a bit after guildhopping after pixels, so I sense some sarcasm here.

says the one who poped for epics and depoped shortly after that:p

[Champion_Standing]

The best way to fix the raid scene would be a GM sting operation.

Set up a meeting for discussing the possibility of a raid calender between staff and guild officers.

Ban everyone from any guild that doesn't want to participate in a rotation or calender.

Problem solved.

[fastboy21]

lol whats competitive about who can stay on the longest with the most people? when you say competitve, i think of something that takes skill. out poopsocking != beating them. this is blue, the only competition here is who can remain unemployed the longest and still soak up obama bucks.

I agree with you. It is only competitive from the point of view that there is 1 piece of cake and 12 people want to get it. I don't mean competitive to imply skill or ability in the least here...I am saying that there is an adversarial zero-sum nature to pre-instancing EQ loot/raid targets.

IMO, you can't experience authentic classic EQ if you take that competitive part of the game out.

[citizen1080]

Or we could all just play EverQuest and quit bitching 24/7 about other guilds and "the system is flawed." Raid scene fixed.

This is EQ on p99.

[Alarti0001]

I log on 3-4 nights a week... but you've never been one to let the truth stand in the way of your posts.

welcome back... you were gone for quite awhile, but I guess you want to spin around that. How many months were you gone ?