Bards?

[indiscriminate_hater]

Yes or no? Let's talk about it.

[Lord Traxor]

I recall seeing an article a decade ago where Verant stated to the public, the two biggest mistakes they ever made in EQ were:

1) Complete Heal

2) Bards.

[myriverse]

I dig groovy tunes.

[webrunner5]

Nothing wrong with Bards overall. It is you can't take over a whole zone and not piss off a ton of people. Neither can Pl'ers do it either. But it does seem to be getting out of hand lately.

[NegaStoat]

I recall seeing an article a decade ago where Verant stated to the public, the two biggest mistakes they ever made in EQ were:

1) Complete Heal

2) Bards.

I actually recall that article. It was made right around the time that FoH (Or I think it was them) kicked out that math spreadsheet showing how Shaman were the best healer in the game due to broken Slow mechanics. It caught a lot of attention and Verant stepped up and said something like "Slow mechanics we can adjust as needed, if we feel something is broken. Things that are far more difficult to resolve are the directions we took with Complete Heal as a spell, and Bards as a class."

I'm paraphrasing but I swear that's fairly close to what was included in the official forum reply to the Shaman math thing.

I played a Bard to max level in Velious (no epic, too lazy) by either solely grouping or abusing broken Fear pathing in certain zones while solo. I'd never do it again because song twisting sucks eggs.

[Picked]

I don't have a problem with bards in general. If they can mass aoe kite power to them. I do wish they would use common sense though. Don't go to the highest populated areas and swarm kite. Leave the noobs alone and let us level in peace! The other problem is when a bard swarm kites near a high traffic area. Just the other day I seen a bard swarm kiting at the druid rings in Dreadlands. Not smart. Has disaster written all over it!

So while I don't mind bards in general...I must clarify. I don't mind bards as long as they aren't stupid. Don't be grabbing up a bunch of named spawns that people camp and keep that spawn busy for an hour while you run around in circles. Go somewhere nobody likes to go.

[tacite]

I am a bard, and I have issues with bards sometimes. There seems to be a proliferation of bards around recently that have no idea how to play their class and constantly train people, or rip mobs off with poor low HP kiting tactics. I should stress, however, that the problem is not the class - it's the player.

A competent bard is perfectly capable of levelling at stupidly awesome speeds while respecting other players' camps and not training anyone.

[Picked]

The main problem I see is that most of the people leveling these bards will just shelve them once they get them 50+ or use them for power leveling only. I have yet to run into any real problems with them yet. But I could see how they bother some folks.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

I am a bard, and I have issues with bards sometimes. There seems to be a proliferation of bards around recently that have no idea how to play their class and constantly train people, or rip mobs off with poor low HP kiting tactics. I should stress, however, that the problem is not the class - it's the player.

A competent bard is perfectly capable of levelling at stupidly awesome speeds while respecting other players' camps and not training anyone.

QFT.

I like you Tacite because there's been a few times I've seen you in FM and you do an OOC beforehand asking who is at the giant fort and if you can pull from it. Respect to others like that is a big factor and gets noticed among us normies levelling the good ol' fashioned way.

I'd like to point out that the large majority of these bard zones (OT, DL, SK) are attractive to other players because of their single pulls and ample room to maneuvre/cc/park. With steady pulls and a good team, you can get experience that is as good or better than high ZEM dungeons. Add to the fact that most of the good ZEM dungeons are check valves (1 way in, 1 out) with 10x the risk of death and a million miles from a cleric and well.... You see where I'm going with this. Death is the ultimate xp and time killer.

The long and short of it is, these zones are huge and with a little respect to other players, can be managed and played as intended.

[Swish]

Shove a mandolin where the sun don't shine.

[tacite]

QFT.

I like you Tacite because there's been a few times I've seen you in FM and you do an OOC beforehand asking who is at the giant fort and if you can pull from it. Respect to others like that is a big factor and gets noticed among us normies levelling the good ol' fashioned way.

I'd like to point out that the large majority of these bard zones (OT, DL, SK) are attractive to other players because of their single pulls and ample room to maneuvre/cc/park. With steady pulls and a good team, you can get experience that is as good or better than high ZEM dungeons. Add to the fact that most of the good ZEM dungeons are check valves (1 way in, 1 out) with 10x the risk of death and a million miles from a cleric and well.... You see where I'm going with this. Death is the ultimate xp and time killer.

The long and short of it is, these zones are huge and with a little respect to other players, can be managed and played as intended.


I like you too, lizardfriend. <3

Usually when I'm in FM now, no one at the fort even knows I'm around, as I don't pull from it (except if the zone is totally empty!) and I am always careful not to train through it.

It's really not that hard to avoid being a douchebard, guys.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

I like you too, lizardfriend. <3

Usually when I'm in FM now, no one at the fort even knows I'm around, as I don't pull from it (except if the zone is totally empty!) and I am always careful not to train through it.

It's really not that hard to avoid being a douchebard, guys.

Bugmuncher Yumyum = lizardman monk
Yumyums Inmahtumtums = Barb shaman

[tacite]

Bugmuncher Yumyum = lizardman monk
Yumyums Inmahtumtums = Barb shaman

You chose barbarian for your shaman? Traitor

No tail = fail

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

You chose barbarian for your shaman? Traitor

No tail = fail

No scales? No fails!

[Ravager]

QFT.

I like you Tacite because there's been a few times I've seen you in FM and you do an OOC beforehand asking who is at the giant fort and if you can pull from it. Respect to others like that is a big factor and gets noticed among us normies levelling the good ol' fashioned way.

I'd like to point out that the large majority of these bard zones (OT, DL, SK) are attractive to other players because of their single pulls and ample room to maneuvre/cc/park. With steady pulls and a good team, you can get experience that is as good or better than high ZEM dungeons. Add to the fact that most of the good ZEM dungeons are check valves (1 way in, 1 out) with 10x the risk of death and a million miles from a cleric and well.... You see where I'm going with this. Death is the ultimate xp and time killer.

The long and short of it is, these zones are huge and with a little respect to other players, can be managed and played as intended.

Dungeons don't get any easier. Learn how to play them before you wipe your group in HS where the CR is even worse.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Dungeons don't get any easier. Learn how to play them before you wipe your group in HS where the CR is even worse.

Everything I listed takes you to 53 max - iirc the half way mark for total xp to 60 is around level 54.

The experience you need for high level dungeons to "not always wipe" can be gleaned fairly easily from 50 onwards...

[Ravager]

Everything I listed takes you to 53 max - iirc the half way mark for total xp to 60 is around level 54.

The experience you need for high level dungeons to "not always wipe" can be gleaned fairly easily from 50 onwards...

50+ dungeons are the very dungeons you want to walk in with those skills, not pick them up.

[kaev]

50+ dungeons are the very dungeons you want to walk in with those skills, not pick them up.

Oh come on.

1) KC, where most of the 50+ dungeon activity takes place, is trivial (other than mob level) compared to Sola and Solb and half the sub-50 dungeons in Kunark.
2) It takes a competent player one or maybe two play sessions with players who know what they're doing to become decent in a dungeon group, while an incompetent player will probably still be hopeless after dozens of sessions.
3) There are so many absurdly overtwinked toons and handily parked epic cleric alts here that as often as not being in a lower level dungeon groups will teach you to play badly rather than well.

Spending a lot of time in dungeons isn't what helps, unless you're learning the finer details of pulling/splitting indoor dungeons. Finding competent & knowledgeable players and spending time with them in dungeons, even just a few play sessions, is what you need, plenty of easily gained XP outdoors.

The issue here is that the average bard on this server is a suckass little dickweed desperately in need of a 90+ day hiatus from video games. The few good bards are awesome, the few learning to become good bards are worth spending time with, the rest are a complete waste of bandwidth.

[Trouble]

As a bard that leveled from 2-60 by AE strafe kiting to 50 then low-hp kiting in bw & sf, the only players I don't like are most bards.

[Aksiom2k]

Trouble hates me.

I leveled to 50 before Kunark without ae kiting.

I have not spent a significant time ae kiting 50+.

I do not like bards who leveled up ae kiting but dont know wtf to do in a group.

You should be able to twist at least 4 songs at a time.

You should be able to mez at least 4 mobs at a time.

Do yourself a favor and get a group.

That is all.

[Trouble]

I like our bards!