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View Full Version : When did we get so soft?


dancingclown22
09-25-2013, 12:47 PM
I started playing on this server a couple months ago, to bring back the feeling of a game I loved so very much. But I can't help but notice, why is it that people are so afraid of dying on this server and exploring new places? I notice it time and time again, people are afraid to go places because they don't want a mass CR, or they are just too scared, or lazy, not familiar enough, or whatever other excuse. All that seems to have been replaced by the basically skillless leveling that goes on in most open zones, all the way up until level 60. Sure it's easier, more consistent xp. But did we all fall in love with this game because getting to 60 was so easy?

What made this game was the fear that you didn't know what was waiting for you around the corner. That if you died, getting your corpse would suck bad, but it wouldn't stop you from going back. You wanted to go back, you wanted to get better, you wanted to show that bitch froglok caster that rooted you and chain nuked you till death that you weren't afraid of it, and that it would be dead soon enough.

It's sad now, people all crowd to the same, no brains easy mode zones. Unrest, Mistmoore, OT, City of Mist, etc. I got caught in the same trap for awhile when I first started, then it suddenly hit me. None of these zones have made me any better at my class than I was at level 1. In fact, I think I was actually better 13 years ago at this game. So I quit my main, and am ready to reroll with a fresh view on leveling.

I love the community we have here. It's a great thing to be able to still have something like this. So let's do eachother all a favor and help one another actually explore zones that you can't cast SoW in, become better at our classes (even if that means dying more), leveling in more than 5 zones from 1-60, and just do what we should be doing, having FUN.

Ele
09-25-2013, 12:49 PM
I blame Dorito's Locos Tacos.

But really, people just want the path of least resistance from 1->60.

this user was banned
09-25-2013, 12:54 PM
If we had 2-3 times the pop like an actual live server back in the day, people would be leveling in many different places.

Tecmos Deception
09-25-2013, 12:56 PM
There's nothing innately wrong with following the path of least resistance. We would have done it back in the day too, if we had only known what that path was.

I tended to stick to the easy+safe+"best" path with the characters I've leveled to date, which is why I spent so much time solo; it's just less hassle to xp (or farm) solo when I want to how I want to than it is to try to find a group to go crawl around in the bottom of a nasty-but-cool dungeon.


Since I have accomplished all my current goals with Tecmos (60, epic, rich, basically), I've been much more prone to do the dumb and hard but extra fun things, often while streaming them, but unfortunately I've got basically no playtime anymore :(



Also this: If we had 2-3 times the pop like an actual live server back in the day, people would be leveling in many different places.

susvain0362
09-25-2013, 01:00 PM
I think cucumbers is still exping along the KC wall in dreadlands.....=p

Champion_Standing
09-25-2013, 01:20 PM
the safe/easy exp spots were always the busiest on live. With less competition than there was in those days people have the ability to pick the choice camps a lot of the time. I love exploring new zones and exping in places that I have never been to before, but I completely understand peoples reasons for sticking to those "safe" zones.

YendorLootmonkey
09-25-2013, 01:27 PM
I heard Cucumbers is still turning in stacks of gnoll fangs.

Splorf22
09-25-2013, 01:49 PM
I heard Cucumbers is still delivering mail to Kelethin.

zanderklocke
09-25-2013, 02:45 PM
I heard Cucumbers is still potentially going to become a pickle.

Yaolin
09-25-2013, 02:51 PM
I seen many people level 1-50 beg for an XP res, I ate a death in 59 just to get to damn raid. People are just too soft and expect things handed to them and act as if getting a click should just happen. A lot of the ways people act on P99 shows what the last 10 years of video games have made people accustom to.

Yumyums Inmahtumtums
09-25-2013, 02:58 PM
I remember even when Luclin and PoP were out, DL would have 40 people in zone. Face it, these zones are amazing. I like Kunark dungeons (Nurga/Droga) but only the dungeons that offer the best rewards get the players (see KC, Seb, Solb, Guk).

Same thing happened when Velious, Luclin and PoP came out. People migrated from SK, OT and DL to GD, Dawnshroud peaks and PoNightmare.

It is a matter of risk vs reward and unfortunately most of the dungeons off the beaten path do not offer reward.

YendorLootmonkey
09-25-2013, 03:02 PM
IN MY DAY, WHEN WE DIED WE JUST LET OUR CORPSES ROT AND WENT AND GOT NEW GEAR. AND WE LIKED IT! WE DIDN'T KNOW ANY BETTER! WE WERE TOUGH! "YENDOR, GO TAKE THAT DEATH TOUCH. YOU CAN ALWAYS JUST GET A NEW SET OF TOLANS AND EPICS!" BECAUSE THAT'S THE WAY THINGS WERE AND WE LOVED EVERY SECOND OF IT!

Lyra
09-25-2013, 03:10 PM
I started playing on this server a couple months ago, to bring back the feeling of a game I loved so very much. But I can't help but notice, why is it that people are so afraid of dying on this server and exploring new places?

I'm all for exploring, and I enjoy dungeons but I always make it a goal not to die. The steep death penalty was created as a deterrent to dying.

I play often with what I consider "reckless" players. They play the characters well, but they take risks I normally wouldn't. I usually give them two deaths till I bail. I consider it a compromise. They quote "risk vs reward" but I prefer to take less chances.

I believe the game was created for cautious players; those who think about consequences prior to advancing.

indiscriminate_hater
09-25-2013, 03:13 PM
IN MY DAY, WHEN WE DIED WE JUST LET OUR CORPSES ROT AND WENT AND GOT NEW GEAR. AND WE LIKED IT! WE DIDN'T KNOW ANY BETTER! WE WERE TOUGH! "YENDOR, GO TAKE THAT DEATH TOUCH. YOU CAN ALWAYS JUST GET A NEW SET OF TOLANS AND EPICS!" BECAUSE THAT'S THE WAY THINGS WERE AND WE LOVED EVERY SECOND OF IT!

:D:D:D:D

Rhambuk
09-25-2013, 03:18 PM
What made this game was the fear that you didn't know what was waiting for you around the corner.

Unfortunately there is no fear on p99, everyone knows exactly whats around every single corner of every inch of every zone.

As sad as it is, there is no adventure to be had here just reliving old memories.

Lyra
09-25-2013, 03:37 PM
Unfortunately there is no fear on p99, everyone knows exactly whats around every single corner of every inch of every zone.

As sad as it is, there is no adventure to be had here just reliving old memories.

You should have waited longer to play here.

As you get older, and your memory deteriorates. Couple that with a long history of pot smoking, and it's like a brand new game.

JayN
09-25-2013, 03:42 PM
You should have waited longer to play here.

As you get older, and your memory deteriorates. Couple that with a long history of pot smoking, and it's like a brand new game.
^QFT^

myriverse
09-25-2013, 04:01 PM
Feh.
There was never any fear.
Things were never as hard as you think they were.

The pixels are still 13 years old, regardless of how difficult you make getting them.

evan1612
09-25-2013, 04:06 PM
You should have waited longer to play here.

As you get older, and your memory deteriorates. Couple that with a long history of pot smoking, and it's like a brand new game.


Worked like a charm on me!

khanable
09-25-2013, 06:06 PM
I think cucumbers is still exping along the KC wall in dreadlands.....=p

nay

I heard Cucumbers is still turning in stacks of gnoll fangs.

aye

I heard Cucumbers is still delivering mail to Kelethin.

aye

I heard Cucumbers is still potentially going to become a pickle.

aye, my final form

Gadwen
09-25-2013, 06:17 PM
Unfortunately there is no fear on p99, everyone knows exactly whats around every single corner of every inch of every zone.

As sad as it is, there is no adventure to be had here just reliving old memories.

That isn't entirely true lol, but for some of us yeah...that is pretty much what we are doing. I have grouped with a good number of people that started playing post Luclin or PoP and came here to experience Classic, they definitely had some adventures and went to places that they had never been before.

Ephirith
09-25-2013, 06:27 PM
Before P99 I had never seen past the entrance to Sebilis, never entered howling stones, or any of the planes. On live I saw hardly any of Velious

Sadre Spinegnawer
09-25-2013, 06:35 PM
Can it be that it was all so simple then?
Or has time rewritten every line?
And if we had tghe chance to do it all again, tell me
Would we?










Could we?

Tecmos Deception
09-25-2013, 06:38 PM
Unfortunately there is no fear on p99, everyone knows exactly whats around every single corner of every inch of every zone.

As sad as it is, there is no adventure to be had here just reliving old memories.

Imo this isn't even CLOSE to the truth. And anyone who thinks it is? Let's put some plat on how well you think you know the game.

Tecmos Deception
09-25-2013, 06:39 PM
Before P99 I had never seen past the entrance to Sebilis, never entered howling stones, or any of the planes. On live I saw hardly any of Velious

^

Turp_SmokinPurp
09-25-2013, 07:05 PM
What zones are you alluding to that do not get used? Almost every zone has people in it during prime time. An still a lot on off hours. Yes zones like Nurga/Dalnir and a few others rarely get visited, but they do get visited. They just have bad loots or exp so only new or nostalgia adventures make the trip.

Unfortunately there is no fear on p99, everyone knows exactly whats around every single corner of every inch of every zone.

As sad as it is, there is no adventure to be had here just reliving old memories.

You still have that fear factor big in this game (way more than all current MMORPG) . I remember leveling up in Kurn's tower when I first started and getting blinded by a Burynai and than ate haha. Good times.
Also once higher level try out VP . The fear factor is still big their too , since you cannot port or gate out. More fear factor here in this old game, than anywhere else.

Cecily
09-25-2013, 07:09 PM
Let's see. On Cecily I did Crushbone, Mistmoore, Highpass, Highkeep, Splitpaw, SolA (for a few seconds before I fell into the lava died and left group embarassed), FM, OT, CoM, Nurga , Droga, Lower Guk, SolB, Chardok, HS, Seb. Along the way I checked out a few zones I had never leveled in. Had fun. Well, Splitpaw wasn't fun. Not at all.

Edit: Oh! Ty turp. Dalnir!! Omg that zone is so fun. Totally worth the trip out there.

Clark
09-25-2013, 09:13 PM
I blame Dorito's Locos Tacos.

Flamewraith
09-25-2013, 09:13 PM
Edit: Oh! Ty turp. Dalnir!! Omg that zone is so fun. Totally worth the trip out there.

Kudos to you for checking out all of those other zones, but FUCK Dalnir. Went there once and I swore on my life that I would avoid that place like the plague. To this day I won't spit in the direction of Dalnir.

webrunner5
09-25-2013, 10:11 PM
If you can bind yourself or be in a group that can bind you, well dying is not so bad. but if you are a Iksar SK with a 68% XP penalty, being too low for FD, well good luck dying a few times on it for the sake of exploring for the hell of it. A lot depends on what class you are. IF you are a Druid or Wizard with ports, well pretty easy to do. Other classes, well not much fun. But I get your point.

t0lkien
09-25-2013, 10:45 PM
Kudos to you for checking out all of those other zones, but FUCK Dalnir. Went there once and I swore on my life that I would avoid that place like the plague. To this day I won't spit in the direction of Dalnir.

QFT

Lune
09-25-2013, 10:50 PM
I love Dalnir, but you have to execute that shit like special forces. Challenging stuff, but that makes it different and fun.

gotrocks
09-25-2013, 10:54 PM
I love Dalnir, but you have to execute that shit like special forces. Challenging stuff, but that makes it different and fun.

Ahldagor
09-26-2013, 08:21 PM
been wanting to group in dalnir on my shammy. killin the apes in the cave by the zl usually.

Sadre Spinegnawer
09-26-2013, 08:27 PM
I often question the usual paradigm of expansions just being released. Another paradigm would be, you release an expansion, and then you adjust and redo that content until it is all utilized. Like Warsliks Woods. Nothing happens there.

It's another model of how to a game. One I wish SOE had the balls to have done. They have of course started doing stuff like this, like with the revamp of CT. But they shoulda done this model from the start. Kunark has -- guessing -- 50% of its zones not fully optimized. Invent the lore, create the content in the expansion you got.

Shit would not had inflated as quick as it did had they taken this route. But bizness....

Tecmos Deception
09-26-2013, 09:21 PM
I like that idea, waste!

Fucking android autocorrect. Sadre, not fucking waste.

Sadre Spinegnawer
09-27-2013, 06:15 PM
It is something p99 would have to start thinking about. Original + Kunark, even just there, there is underdeveloped content but all is well, the game still kicks ass, even with the zones that feel just like travel zones, no one ever in them.

But once you get to Velious, I do not see how the p99 community would not want to reach some consensus on these things. Starting with velious (some would even say, Kunark too) "classic" starts to become "and here is where SOE started dropping the ball."

Aside from some things that are borked from the get go here (no stamina regen and no weight penalty on weapons is a huge one imo -- bring it back), I can't think of much I would change about Kunark. The progression was still rock solid.

But starting with Velious, I think the entire concept of "let's just be classic" becomes something worth debating.

Just take the stamina example. If that mechanic was preserved through Kunark and Velious, it would of course not be "classic," but it might make a better game. As in: harder. Harder is good. Or at least, that's what she says.

Splorf22
09-27-2013, 06:30 PM
I think the itemization of Kunark is all around terrible:

Half the best items in the game (especially prenerf) come from the Sebilis crypt, which is a trivial camp with all the named being single pulls
HS East is the hardest area in the game except for maybe the myconids in sebilis, and has zip for loot. Even for North and West there is a reasonable case to be made for increasing the loots; HS is way harder than Sebilis
Chardok is no joke, especially further in, but doesn't drop much
The JBB and Spear of Fate turned shamans into sick dps classes for some unknown reason
Meanwhile Wizards don't get any sort of damage clicky outside of VP
Casters get no Kunark upgrade to Planar armor
Kunark armor has no stats on anything except the BP/Legs (wtf)
Warriors don't get any sort of intermediate weapons between the Sarnak Warhammer and VP


For example, if caster armor pieces dropped in HS/Chardok and a few of the crypt items were switched to HS, things would get a lot more balanced item wise.

Flamewraith
09-27-2013, 06:59 PM
I think the itemization of Kunark is all around terrible:

Half the best items in the game (especially prenerf) come from the Sebilis crypt, which is a trivial camp with all the named being single pulls
HS East is the hardest area in the game except for maybe the myconids in sebilis, and has zip for loot. Even for North and West there is a reasonable case to be made for increasing the loots; HS is way harder than Sebilis
Chardok is no joke, especially further in, but doesn't drop much
The JBB and Spear of Fate turned shamans into sick dps classes for some unknown reason
Meanwhile Wizards don't get any sort of damage clicky outside of VP
Casters get no Kunark upgrade to Planar armor
Kunark armor has no stats on anything except the BP/Legs (wtf)
Warriors don't get any sort of intermediate weapons between the Sarnak Warhammer and VP


For example, if caster armor pieces dropped in HS/Chardok and a few of the crypt items were switched to HS, things would get a lot more balanced item wise.

Loraen, I have to admit, you have some great ideas towards improving the overall balance of the game, but you do understand that none of these ideas and suggestions will ever be implemented right? They simply aren't classic. Are you actually suggesting them, or throwing them out there as brain food?

Tecmos Deception
09-27-2013, 07:45 PM
He's just mad cause his warrior wears sebilite scale armor ;)

tacite
09-27-2013, 07:54 PM
I love Dalnir, but you have to execute that shit like special forces. Challenging stuff, but that makes it different and fun.

I wish there were more Kly Overseers. I went in there at 50, thinking I could solo everything and get some buddies their Crescent. Was not expecting to be hit 3x for 500 dmg cold nukes in <10 seconds from a light blue con wizard.

... now I charm him and wipe out the bottom floor with him. Revenge is sweet.

Acrux Bcrux
09-27-2013, 08:05 PM
http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a530/suckacack999/ClickHandlerashx_zpse57db762.jpg

Yes im mad good with ms paint, and yes i spent all day making this.

Sadre Spinegnawer
09-27-2013, 09:08 PM
I think the itemization of Kunark is all around terrible:

Half the best items in the game (especially prenerf) come from the Sebilis crypt, which is a trivial camp with all the named being single pulls
HS East is the hardest area in the game except for maybe the myconids in sebilis, and has zip for loot. Even for North and West there is a reasonable case to be made for increasing the loots; HS is way harder than Sebilis
Chardok is no joke, especially further in, but doesn't drop much
The JBB and Spear of Fate turned shamans into sick dps classes for some unknown reason
Meanwhile Wizards don't get any sort of damage clicky outside of VP
Casters get no Kunark upgrade to Planar armor
Kunark armor has no stats on anything except the BP/Legs (wtf)
Warriors don't get any sort of intermediate weapons between the Sarnak Warhammer and VP


For example, if caster armor pieces dropped in HS/Chardok and a few of the crypt items were switched to HS, things would get a lot more balanced item wise.

you sir, know how to open a can of worms

Sadre Spinegnawer
09-27-2013, 09:09 PM
fuck velious. FIX KUNARK

Splorf22
09-27-2013, 09:46 PM
He's just mad cause his warrior wears sebilite scale armor ;)

pretty much this.

But yeah, I'm not saying that Nilbog will or should make any of those changes. My point goal was to point out just how bad the itemization of Kunark is. I'm assuming Velious is even worse when Monks hit the AC cap with NToV loot.

BUT WHO CARES, CAUSE MY IKSAR WARRIOR WON'T BE WEARING SEBILITE SCALE

senna
09-27-2013, 10:07 PM
yes kunark sucks, I cant believe people get nastolgiac over the kunark era when everything was so out of wack.. shits terrible.

The game didnt start to improve till velious came out

vanilla was great, kunark was a serious dropoff, velious was a saving grace

Pringles
09-27-2013, 10:46 PM
I got soft when I saw this
http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb289/Chel_C9/ugly.jpg

webrunner5
09-27-2013, 10:51 PM
I doubt the average person that plays on here is going to see shit for gear from Velious just like they don't see shit from gear on Kunark. Top 3 Guilds will have all the toys just like they have now. About the same like it was on live. So I guess it is "Classic".

Clark
09-27-2013, 10:54 PM
I think the itemization of Kunark is all around terrible:

Half the best items in the game (especially prenerf) come from the Sebilis crypt, which is a trivial camp with all the named being single pulls
HS East is the hardest area in the game except for maybe the myconids in sebilis, and has zip for loot. Even for North and West there is a reasonable case to be made for increasing the loots; HS is way harder than Sebilis
Chardok is no joke, especially further in, but doesn't drop much
The JBB and Spear of Fate turned shamans into sick dps classes for some unknown reason
Meanwhile Wizards don't get any sort of damage clicky outside of VP
Casters get no Kunark upgrade to Planar armor
Kunark armor has no stats on anything except the BP/Legs (wtf)
Warriors don't get any sort of intermediate weapons between the Sarnak Warhammer and VP


For example, if caster armor pieces dropped in HS/Chardok and a few of the crypt items were switched to HS, things would get a lot more balanced item wise.

http://s23.postimg.org/5pcdt502j/1133.png

http://s22.postimg.org/ngw891c81/1133.png

Lotta good points though int casters kinda get shafted in Kunark.

smoflow
09-28-2013, 12:12 AM
#1 rationalization for alt syndrome

Splorf22
09-28-2013, 12:39 AM
I mean I'm not sure items that no longer drop really disprove my point. If they had left the RMoY in and the Green blade still had a proc (even if it was 13/25) things would be a lot better.

runlvlzero
09-28-2013, 01:07 AM
I blame Dorito's Locos Tacos.

But really, people just want the path of least resistance from 1->60.