warrior in raids, Kunark and Velious

[Raclen]

Are warriors needed in numbers for raids? If you aren't a top tier warriors do you have a real purpose on raids?

I was wanting to start an iksar warrior and probably won't put in the time to ever get the top tier gear. Should I just default to an iksar monk for dps to contribute to raids?

[Elements]

Are warriors needed in numbers for raids? If you aren't a top tier warriors do you have a real purpose on raids?

I was wanting to start an iksar warrior and probably won't put in the time to ever get the top tier gear. Should I just default to an iksar monk for dps to contribute to raids?

Warriors are always prefered for tanking the hardest hitting mobs. Its always nice to have them. Warrior dps at 60 is quite significant. If you arent tanking and hitting from the back you can come very close to monks that dont have the brass knucle fist though rogues will always be on top for now. Sustained dps will be even more important in velious though monks will pull far ahead by then.

If you play a warrior you will be expected to tank. If you play a monk you will be expected to pull at times. If you just want to dps id go the rogue path.

[Swish]

...or mage. Not enough high level mages on the server :p

[Raclen]

Warriors are always prefered for tanking the hardest hitting mobs. Its always nice to have them. Warrior dps at 60 is quite significant. If you arent tanking and hitting from the back you can come very close to monks that dont have the brass knucle fist though rogues will always be on top for now. Sustained dps will be even more important in velious though monks will pull far ahead by then.

If you play a warrior you will be expected to tank. If you play a monk you will be expected to pull at times. If you just want to dps id go the rogue path.

I'm rolling on the PvP server so I'm trying to weigh the pros and cons for both PvE/PvP. It looks like I'm ruling out rogue because of how squishy they are for PvP.

Monks seem to be the better route for a player without the pixels. I would like to be a warrior for mass pvp but I don't want to be gimped in raids down the road when I'm not the main tank and my dps starts slipping. The only drawback I see for monks is that I'm going to have to learn some dungeons I don't know so well since I will be required to pull. Oh well.

[Elements]

I'm rolling on the PvP server so I'm trying to weigh the pros and cons for both PvE/PvP. It looks like I'm ruling out rogue because of how squishy they are for PvP.

Monks seem to be the better route for a player without the pixels. I would like to be a warrior for mass pvp but I don't want to be gimped in raids down the road when I'm not the main tank and my dps starts slipping. The only drawback I see for monks is that I'm going to have to learn some dungeons I don't know so well since I will be required to pull. Oh well.

May want to check out the PvP server chat then.

[Clark]

Prolly wanna go Ogre warrior. They're needed endgame though for sure, but same for monks.

[Raclen]

May want to check out the PvP server chat then.

I asked both. I wanted to hear from blue as well since there are a lot of vets here.

This was the best response from red forum:

"Monk is the easiest to pvp and level. In PVE you need to know how to pull.
War is very dependent on gear but easy to play in mass pvp. In PVE you need to know how to tank and position.
Rogue is the hardest to pvp with but the easiest to raid with."

[gotrocks]

just to add in here, a well played rogue on red is devastating. Definitely hard to pvp with, but when you learn how you can really tear people apart.

[pharmakos]

each raid in theory only needs one tank, but in practice having extra tanks around can help a lot.

[p99Mule]

each raid in theory only needs one tank, but in practice having extra tanks around can help a lot.

Not on DT mobs or in velious.

[Splorf22]

Warriors actually do quite a bit of damage.

/GU Phara Dar in 76s, 31k @412dps --- Gabobrik 8k @110dps (25.79%) --- Quickfingers 4k @61dps (13.86%) --- Cecily 4k @57dps (13.27%) --- Sakuragi 4k @54dps (12.96%) --- Luchino 4k @50dps (11.76%) --- Lonegin 3k @42dps (10.15%) --- Kaerik 0k @21dps (0.07%) --- Taja 1k @18dps (4.04%) --- Geleana 1k @17dps (4.12%) --- Zagum 0k @17dps (1.32%)

Gabobrik/Cecily/Quickfingers are rogues and it looks like Gab was the one sucking up to a shaman to get Avatar. Sakuragi/Luchino/Lonegin are warriors. I don't think I even used my disc on this fight. When I used Precision in VP I'd usually hit 70-80 except on annoying ones like Hoshkar.

/GU Combined: Myconid reaver in 3503s, 555k @158dps --- Picked 183k @53dps (33%) --- Sakuragi 171k @49dps (30.76%) --- Froglok krup knight 117k @34dps (21%) --- Vaseker 17k @33dps (3.11%) --- Vasarer 23k @26dps (4.11%) --- Lofted 41k @12dps (7.44%) --- Lloyd 3k @1dps (0.56%) --- Bianathon 0k @0dps (0.01%) --- Yaddar 0k @0dps (0%) --- Coeur 0k @0dps (0%)

Picked: 55 rogue, Lofted 58 bard, various mage water pets

[Elements]

Ya before the wurmslayer nerf I think a zerking warrior would have been tough for either a monk or a rogue to beat,the odd time you get to zerk dps.

[webrunner5]

This. http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=111045&highlight=damage+weapon

[Elements]

This. http://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=111045&highlight=damage+weapon

Not really sure how this applies.

[webrunner5]

Not really sure how this applies.

Shows you are clueless.

[Cecily]

Here's last week's Sky raid.

/gui Combined: Eye of Veeshan in 4637s, 1917k @413dps :: Cecily278k @60dps (14.5%) :: Winsloe 206k @45dps (10.76%) :: Luchino 168k @36dps (8.79%) :: Soapx 154k @37dps (8.06%) :: Selkie 147k @34dps (7.65%) :: Kiki 134k @33dps (6.98%) :: Kingore 123k @30dps (6.41%) :: Dracomir 119k @26dps (6.23%) :: Bree 113k @26dps (5.89%) :: Pingu 112k @27dps (5.84%)

Cecily - Rogue
Winsloe - Rogue
Luchino - Warrior
Soapx - Monk
Selkie - Rogue
Kiki - Rogue
Kingore - Monk
Dracomir - Monk
Bree - Monk
Pingu - Monk

[Elements]

Shows you are clueless.

Warrior do greater than zero dps. Kthx.

[Elements]

Here's last week's Sky raid.

/gui Combined: Eye of Veeshan in 4637s, 1917k @413dps :: Cecily278k @60dps (14.5%) :: Winsloe 206k @45dps (10.76%) :: Luchino 168k @36dps (8.79%) :: Soapx 154k @37dps (8.06%) :: Selkie 147k @34dps (7.65%) :: Kiki 134k @33dps (6.98%) :: Kingore 123k @30dps (6.41%) :: Dracomir 119k @26dps (6.23%) :: Bree 113k @26dps (5.89%) :: Pingu 112k @27dps (5.84%)

Cecily - Rogue
Winsloe - Rogue
Luchino - Warrior
Soapx - Monk
Selkie - Rogue
Kiki - Rogue
Kingore - Monk
Dracomir - Monk
Bree - Monk
Pingu - Monk

Im assuming the warrior was tanking? Hitting from the front?

[Colgate]

as far as pure melee goes?

monks are pretty lackluster in pvp without a tstaff, but with a tstaff, they're amazing
warriors are good, if you can manage to get an oggok cleaver you're probably the most terrifying thing to 1v1
rogues have the least survivability but also the most burst; i'd say a well-played rogue is potentially the best

if velious is of concern to you, shadow knights are king

[Wotsirb401]

Warriors are always prefered for tanking the hardest hitting mobs. Its always nice to have them. Warrior dps at 60 is quite significant. If you arent tanking and hitting from the back you can come very close to monks that dont have the brass knucle fist though rogues will always be on top for now. Sustained dps will be even more important in velious though monks will pull far ahead by then.

If you play a warrior you will be expected to tank. If you play a monk you will be expected to pull at times. If you just want to dps id go the rogue path.

To add to this, I think warriors get triple attack and will have their screen full of melee hits just like monks! I find myself out dpsing full groups of level 55+ classes

[Raclen]

Well DPS won't be my main focus being on a pvp server. My basic question to this thread is the viability of a rogue/monk/warrior in raids when you will be mediocre as far as gearing.

I was wondering if warriors had any place in raids if they weren't geared enough to be the main tank.

For damage output I'm more interested in burst, as colgate has mentioned, for pvp purposes. The Oggok Cleavers are really hard to come by as I have seen. Do two high damage 1 handed weapons work okay for jousting Colgate? Like a Wurmslayer and Jagged Long Sword?

25 dmg main hand/16 dmg off hand.

Or am I forced to find a 2h weapon for jousting? If so a weighted axe would probably be what I get stuck with.

[Vexenu]

A few relevant points:

1) Warriors have a much easier time raising MR than Monks and to a lesser extent Rogues (ex: Skull-shaped Barbute, Runed Bone Fork, BS mantle is +30 MR right there from three easy to get items)

2) Weighted Axe is only usable by large races, the best an Iksar Warrior could do for jousting until getting an Oggok Cleaver would realistically be a Staff of Battle (31/37) or even an Executioner's Axe (25/50)

3) Effectively PvPing with a Rogue requires the highest jousting skill of any melee to properly time backstabs ("frontstabs")

That being said, Warriors are probably the scariest PvP class at high end and always an excellent group PvP class due to their survivability and damage output. And yes, a decently geared Warrior can put out reasonably good DPS, so they aren't totally useless if not tanking on a raid.

[Ruenaros]

Some more points:

1. EQ PvP is horrendously bad.. the design, class balance, netcode... etc. None of it was designed for PvP.

2. There's a pvp forum for you to use if point 1 doesn't bother you: http://www.project1999.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=54

3. Chicks dig warriors.

[Servellious]

Warrior is your weekend sports car (raid mobs). Palymans and sk good for everyday commute (trash mobs especially planar clears)

[Raclen]

Some more points:

1. EQ PvP is horrendously bad.. the design, class balance, netcode... etc. None of it was designed for PvP.

2. There's a pvp forum for you to use if point 1 doesn't bother you: http://www.project1999.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=54

3. Chicks dig warriors.


I asked the pvp forums as well. Red99 has the same PvE as blue so vets from here have valuable advice. I tailored my questions for each forum. I was just pointing out that my main focus here were questions about how valuable each class was in raids. Specifically how much a mediocre geared iksar warrior can contribute to a raid, if any, prior to Velious.

I got a little off topic because colgate, red99 box hero, made an appearance here and I got sidetracked with PvP advice.

[Tikker]

eh, all 3 classes have their place in PVP and PVE

there's not really a right/wrong answer here

just pick the one that matches your playstyle the best

[Raclen]

Not true on everquest man, it matters for sure!

[Briq]

I'm going to answer your question about PVE and raids and this is coming from a person that's played 3 different warriors to 60+ and raided with all 3.

First it will depend on the guild. Some guilds will go with one warrior tanking a raid mob until the warrior dies no matter if defensive is down or not. In that case your chance to actually be a MT is slim unless they pass it around and let them all get a chance. If a guild rotates their MTs due to defensive being down then you'll get a chance to tank if there aren't more than three warriors on the raid at any given time. Either way you'll still be able to offtank adds that come in that are not mezzable (NToV/ToV in general comes to mind). That will also depend on if there are a lot of tanks in the guild/raid. You'll still be able to DPS and kill the mobs, just might not tank anything. And coming from a warrior I know I wanted my chances to MT mobs or at least be the MA any chance I could get. There's nothing like watching your health go up and down MTing a raid mob or seeing the MT go down, getting aggro and popping furious until the CH chain starts hitting you. I absolutely loved it.

Sitting there and watching the same MT tank everything sucks for sure. I felt useless because my DPS wasn't as good as a rogue or a monk's and that I was there to take the damage so everyone else was unharmed but there was a better geared warrior ahead of me. Especially with new raid bosses you go with the best geared warrior for your best chance to win.

Like I said though, it's however the guild you are in/want to join works their MT rotations. They might give everyone a chance to tank or the same guy will do all the work. You won't be useless as you will have other roles other than MTing and you will still be providing DPS to the raid, no matter how little or how much it is.

As for PVP, i honestly never played on a pvp server and rarely dueled anyone so to that I can't comment on. Hope this helps you in someway.

[webrunner5]

If you are not the guild leader or the guild leaders best friend you are never going to be the Main Tank. As it is now on P1999 it takes about 30 seconds to kill a raid mob so not much need even for Warriors in groups on a raid other than the main group.

When Velious comes out will be different. Will take several groups with top end Warriors to kill top raid mobs on Assist.

Being the main tank is a pretty neat thing, but you HAVE TO BE on every raid there is or you are out. So it is a hell of a commitment. Raid Leader and Main Tank almost always have the most DKP's. And the Best gear, which the MT needs.

[Briq]

Being the main tank is a pretty neat thing, but you HAVE TO BE on every raid there is or you are out. So it is a hell of a commitment. Raid Leader and Main Tank almost always have the most DKP's. And the Best gear, which the MT needs.

That is so true. I was never the MT of a guild until I was the officer of a progression guild on the Test server. Even then, I wasn't able to make the first 4 raids the guild had and was the second warrior behind a member because of it. I didn't become the MT until that warrior quit and I was next in line. I had about a 95% attendance and most of that 5% were those first 4 raids and the warrior that was in front of me had an even better attendance percentage. Later on once we hit Velious and after a couple kills of a raid mob other warriors would have a chance to MT. But that example might be a little screwed because so many people would play for 1-2 months and quit so most people playing later on weren't the same people at the beginning. It was a very high turn over rate for us.

Like I said in my first post though, there are other uses for warriors on raids even if you aren't the best geared warrior or the MT. Offtanking, Main Assist, Second Assist(if MA has to afk or is dead), and general DPS are the other things warriors do as well.

[Raclen]

DPS warrior it is.

[Raclen]

I just want to attend raids enough to get decent gear for PvP. It would be nice to be the main tank but at a minimum I was just wondering about the usefulness for the 3rd - 5th tank down the line.

[webrunner5]

I just want to attend raids enough to get decent gear for PvP. It would be nice to be the main tank but at a minimum I was just wondering about the usefulness for the 3rd - 5th tank down the line.

The 5th Tank can pretty much be a Ranger lol. And even getting a group is as much political as having good gear or not. And probably the 5th WON'T have good gear.

On big raids there is always 20 people or more that sit up on the hill, grouped if you are lucky, that never engage. So unless the MT, and the Main Tank Assist dies good luck even hitting the mob. Raids are not all it's cracked up to be unless you are super active in every raid and show you have better skill than just the average Joe Blow at playing your toon, and knowing zones and pathing. But everyone has to start somewhere.