Rules Lawyers

[amishriot]

I'm curious how other people feel about the rules lawyers out there. You know the people who throw the rule book at you anytime it benefits them while they do something shady.

First example
I was in Lguk the other day, it was me and 1 other person (soloing at the zone line) in the whole zone. I was camping the ass/sup room but also killing the ritualist. Someone came in and did a champ check. I called ass/sup but not the ritualist. a min later while i was killing the ritualist he send me a tell to ask where i am. I tell him in in front of ritualist. He goes on to start quoting server rules to me about how I can't claim 2 camps, I had to pick one. I said I wasn't claiming 2 and he was free to take the ritualist, I was only claiming ass/sup. This wasn't good enough for him though because i wasn't currently in the ass/sup spawn room, even though it was cleared. So I moved there because he started quoting rules about claiming camps and that I had to be in the room. There was so many other camps he could have taken. Mine was the only one claimed in the entire place but clearly he came for that one and was going to try and rules lawyer me out of it.

Second example
I've been playing an alt in crushbone with my brother who is new to the server and every night we see the same 2 lev 60s come into the zone and slaughter everything in it. Literally everything, they run around pulling everything they can find and then AOE it all. When I complained they said the zone was empty. Well it wasn't, there was at least 5 people there trying to find mobs unsuccessfully. They said I could have a camp but I had to tell them which one it was I wanted. I was level 10 at the time and realistically i wanted to to was roam around looking for anything that coned blue to me. Because it was low pop there was more than enough to go around but there wasn't a specific camp that would have been as good as moving around. None of that really matters though because lev 60s shouldn't be killign everything in the zone unless its actually empty. I realize the rule book doesn't stop them from doing this. I have no problem with them coming in to farm an item but to kill everything in the zone leaving us nothing is crap. The people of appropriate level shouldn't have to come in and ask for permission to get a mob of some level 60s that are there every night. Today they were in there again and when they did a CC my group called the castle. We had just got there recently and didn't have a full group yet so we were slowly pulling it. They decided that because most of the TR was up and we were not inside that we had no claim on it so they moved in and took it over.

Petitioning things like this is petty and i doubt the GMs would bother to do anything about it especially since the rules actually allow them to do this kind of thing. Just because something is ok by the rules doesn't mean you should do it. If training people became legal tomorrow I wouldn't do it simply because its a dick move.

I just dont understand people like this at all. There is no excuse for being a selfish prick just because the rules allow you to be so.

[Swish]

One of the biggest negatives on the server is the camp lawyers. If you encounter one, don't engage in any "paragraph 12, subsection 3" shit... tell them to petition a GM if they don't like that you've claimed a camp they want. Stand your ground in all cases like these. If a GM turns up and makes a verdict, accept it... but you don't have to tow the line with some bitter unemployed 40 year old living in his mom's basement.

As for Crushbone, I've had exactly that happen to me a couple of weeks ago. Sounds like powerlevelling, and if its at the expense of people who want to level legitimately then I'd ask them to keep it to one camp (throne room?) and let everyone else do their thing, or ask to be invited into the PL group ;) ...if they refuse, petition. Powerlevelling done right doesn't involve CB at all anyway :p

[amishriot]

definitely not PLing cause it was just the 2 60s, they didnt have anyone with em. I've tried talking to them they just don't don't cooperate because they simply don't have to and dont seem to care. I assume they are farming belts and pads. Either way its disruptive to the zone when people are trying to level.

[quido]

What are their names?

[Lojik]

toe the line

[Weekapaug]

This is why camps were never acknowledged officially on live. The player base honored them, as players should, but once you actually make rules about camps it opens a whole can of worms that fucksticks, like the ones who infest this server, can use to abuse people who just want to play the game, unfortunately. The rules here are obviously well intended, but it's just as obvious that they are easily and rampantly used to pin people down to a single spawn so that said fuckstick can take everything else. Because, yeah, soloing a named camp also means you aren't supposed to get exp or pull anything else while waiting 25 mins between spawns. It's absurd.

Welcome to p99.

It would really be nice if you didn't have to have rules about camps and people just not be assholes. But that's probably too much to ask. What would also be nice would be if staff would start enforcing the zone disruption aspects of the pnp as it was done on live. That would thin out the nutsack population a bit.

[Swish]

toe the line

http://i.imgur.com/Cc4E9Ck.jpg

[Lojik]

http://i.imgur.com/p5IcQZg.jpg

[Boone]

Wife and I started on this server maybe a month or so ago; found the same thing in CB and it is rather pathetic. Seems like a few zones are like that, just like they were on Live back in the day.

Nice thing about EQ is just how big it is. There are lots of zones where you can hunt/camp in peace and get away from the farmers and PL's. I will say that the majority of nice folks, far far outnumber the bad ones... again, just like Live was :)

[heartbrand]

OP's problems would be solved by rolling on the red server where he could kill said rule lawyers

[Samoht]

OP's problems would be solved by rolling on the red server where he could kill said rule lawyers

rules lawyers still exist on red, they just have twink rogues with epic/fungis and OoR healers.

nothxyu

[Lojik]

OP's problems would be solved by rolling on the red server where he could kill said rule lawyers

Yes and no.... he would not be able to kill two level 60's... but his problems would be solved cause no one plays on the red server.

[Estu]

Two level 60s clearing everything in Crushbone? Just train them!

[crkhobbit]

This happens sometimes in Kurn's for some reason. I've seen two different guilds bring in a group or two of midlevels and clear the whole damn zone looking for burynai hide armor.

It blows my mind that a group of 30-40s find it worth their time to steal mobs from low levels so they can twink with shitty armor. Luckily the never stay long.

[abazaba]

Can anyone shed some light on Chief / BG camp in Droga? I've seen some claim it as a single camp as long as you keep spwns locked down. Others say it is two camps, forcing you to choose one.

People usually tell me it is a grey area when it comes to this camp. I'm stumped :/

[Atmas]

I would call Chief and BGs one camp.

To the OP: I have a bit of disdain for the use of the term rule lawyering. It seems like every one will always be able to make a derogatory term for someone doing something they don't like. If someone trained you and you complained it was against the rules you would be rule lawyering but I doubt your acceptance of the term in that situation.

Anyway, mixed feelings about your Guk example. Primarily because on several occasions I have walked into Guk called a CC and had one person claim half they were doing half the camps, which in addition to being against the server rules is just ridiculous. I made my way to one of the camps and found it completely spawned. I've also seen people call claim to camps that they want and plan to head to but are no where near. Incidents like that make it somewhat infuriating when someone calls a camp and isn't there. However, you only called one camp so unless I showed up at the camp and found it spawned I would probably be fine, even though you should stay at the camp you are claiming.

The two lvl 60s in CB is just dumb. Even if they were powerleveling someone there are of ton of better places to go that aren't occupied by level appropriate groups trying to xp.

[Elements]

I'm curious how other people feel about the rules lawyers out there. You know the people who throw the rule book at you anytime it benefits them while they do something shady.

First example
I was in Lguk the other day, it was me and 1 other person (soloing at the zone line) in the whole zone. I was camping the ass/sup room but also killing the ritualist. Someone came in and did a champ check. I called ass/sup but not the ritualist. a min later while i was killing the ritualist he send me a tell to ask where i am. I tell him in in front of ritualist. He goes on to start quoting server rules to me about how I can't claim 2 camps, I had to pick one. I said I wasn't claiming 2 and he was free to take the ritualist, I was only claiming ass/sup. This wasn't good enough for him though because i wasn't currently in the ass/sup spawn room, even though it was cleared. So I moved there because he started quoting rules about claiming camps and that I had to be in the room. There was so many other camps he could have taken. Mine was the only one claimed in the entire place but clearly he came for that one and was going to try and rules lawyer me out of it.

Second example
I've been playing an alt in crushbone with my brother who is new to the server and every night we see the same 2 lev 60s come into the zone and slaughter everything in it. Literally everything, they run around pulling everything they can find and then AOE it all. When I complained they said the zone was empty. Well it wasn't, there was at least 5 people there trying to find mobs unsuccessfully. They said I could have a camp but I had to tell them which one it was I wanted. I was level 10 at the time and realistically i wanted to to was roam around looking for anything that coned blue to me. Because it was low pop there was more than enough to go around but there wasn't a specific camp that would have been as good as moving around. None of that really matters though because lev 60s shouldn't be killign everything in the zone unless its actually empty. I realize the rule book doesn't stop them from doing this. I have no problem with them coming in to farm an item but to kill everything in the zone leaving us nothing is crap. The people of appropriate level shouldn't have to come in and ask for permission to get a mob of some level 60s that are there every night. Today they were in there again and when they did a CC my group called the castle. We had just got there recently and didn't have a full group yet so we were slowly pulling it. They decided that because most of the TR was up and we were not inside that we had no claim on it so they moved in and took it over.

Petitioning things like this is petty and i doubt the GMs would bother to do anything about it especially since the rules actually allow them to do this kind of thing. Just because something is ok by the rules doesn't mean you should do it. If training people became legal tomorrow I wouldn't do it simply because its a dick move.

I just dont understand people like this at all. There is no excuse for being a selfish prick just because the rules allow you to be so.

90% of the time in my experience if Im camping something and someone comes in and want the camp they send me a tell and say " hey bud can i get on the list for the camp when you are done?". But i generally just sit at my camp. If I want to try and hold down more than one I make damn sure there is no one else in the zone that wants my primary camp, if there is I dont leave it. And if someone comes in and shouts CC i book it back to my primary. I get what you are saying op and I sympathize but you will feel less stress if you play within those rules so that no one can lawyer you out of your camps. As to the 60s in CB that sounds kinda like a dick move. They were probably farming belts/pads or faction though.

[Tecmos Deception]

There is no excuse for being a selfish prick

Says the guy who was trying to hold multiple camps even though someone else wanted a piece of the action.

[Langrisserx]

the crushbone incident is zone disruption so yes petition it

[Stinkum]

The same thing happened to me in LGuk once. Zone was completely empty, and I was killing ass/sup in my downtime. Some guy enters the zone and immediate calls "CC," I call my both and he immediately rule-lawyers me into claiming one camp. Fair enough. Later on, I discover the same guy was running around killing 5 different camps the whole time, including ass/sup, shortly after trying to bully me to retreat to my camp. The only reason he called CC was so he could try to intimidate me to one camp while he ran around killing everything else.

Red server may be filled with sociopaths and griefers, but Blue is filled with the most selfish, rule-lawyering faggots in online gaming.

[loramin]

but Blue is filled with the most selfish, rule-lawyering faggots in online gaming.


What does having sex with other people of the same gender have to with being a rules lawyer?

[Stinkum]

http://youtu.be/WiGW39zrhdw

[Soandso]

I'd like to clarify these dude's second story as I was playing a noob in crushbone those nights. The 2 dudes were there by themselves, ( this guy is lying and generally if you ask of the people who have been in cb those days he is an entitled pain in the ass) when me and my group showed up they gave us whatever they wanted and even helped us. This dude shows up and doesn't even bother communicating with them because he "doesn't feel like he should have too" and just starts shouting insults. Don't take this guy at his word he's leaving their side of the story out. They were very helpful to plenty of people and they didn't take any of my groups or others mobs when people showed up. In his mind high levels should not even be allowed to zone into lower level zones.

[Champion_Standing]

I love when I see these posts about how amazing the community in P99 is, Yeah i know that guy gave you his vendor trash loot that one time and the newbies in CB are all pretty nice. But the truth is that this servers community is pretty horrible, shit even new MMORPGs have friendlier players.

The contested content in this game combined with a bunch of pathetic losers who have nothing else in life to be proud of trying to be the top dog they could never be on live has created a hilariously bad community here in the past couple years.

[Champion_Standing]

The same thing happened to me in LGuk once. Zone was completely empty, and I was killing ass/sup in my downtime. Some guy enters the zone and immediate calls "CC," I call my both and he immediately rule-lawyers me into claiming one camp. Fair enough. Later on, I discover the same guy was running around killing 5 different camps the whole time, including ass/sup, shortly after trying to bully me to retreat to my camp. The only reason he called CC was so he could try to intimidate me to one camp while he ran around killing everything else.

Red server may be filled with sociopaths and griefers, but Blue is filled with the most selfish, rule-lawyering faggots in online gaming.

This is a great summary of the P99 community. +1

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

You have to know how to drown them in arglebargle.

Just say, "What? I have been away from game for 4 years, I'm just figuring this stuff out."

or:

"Sorry what? I'm on a hella lot of meds. I just lost my left hand ring finger below the second knuckle yesterday at the Chevy dealership I work at. Son of a bitch is knocking me on my ass!"

or

"Hold it one sec, girlfriend aggro. Damn man, I gotta take a dump, too."

or

"Oh dear lord this Quisno's sub is awesome, it is like it is making love to my mouth, sec brb."

See? Child's play.

[webrunner5]

I have no clue why they don't bring out Velious, warts and all. It would solve a lot of the problems on P1999. I know the Jackasses will still be here but at least more spread out. :rolleyes: There just is not enough zones for all these top end people.

This server just gets less fun everyday for me. :(

[SCB]

Says the guy who was trying to hold multiple camps even though someone else wanted a piece of the action.

You should give that paragraph another read.

[Swish]

I have no clue why they don't bring out Velious...

Would only silence people for about a month, and all that would really happen would be the rule lawyering moves to snow heavy places :p

[webrunner5]

Would only silence people for about a month, and all that would really happen would be the rule lawyering moves to snow heavy places :p

Yeah there is a LOT of snow in Velious I have to admit. :D

[Stinkum]

People predicted the same thing about Kunark being the great equalizer to solve the problem of classic content overcrowding.

It wasn't true then, and it won't be in Velious either.

[Champion_Standing]

People predicted the same thing about Kunark being the great equalizer to solve the problem of classic content overcrowding.

It wasn't true then, and it won't be in Velious either.

All it will accomplish in this regard is giving the dickheads better gear so they have an even easier time monopolizing content and stealing camps.

[kenzar]

I'm curious how other people feel about the rules lawyers out there. You know the people who throw the rule book at you anytime it benefits them while they do something shady.

First example
I was in Lguk the other day, it was me and 1 other person (soloing at the zone line) in the whole zone. I was camping the ass/sup room but also killing the ritualist. Someone came in and did a champ check. I called ass/sup but not the ritualist. a min later while i was killing the ritualist he send me a tell to ask where i am. I tell him in in front of ritualist. He goes on to start quoting server rules to me about how I can't claim 2 camps, I had to pick one. I said I wasn't claiming 2 and he was free to take the ritualist, I was only claiming ass/sup. This wasn't good enough for him though because i wasn't currently in the ass/sup spawn room, even though it was cleared. So I moved there because he started quoting rules about claiming camps and that I had to be in the room. There was so many other camps he could have taken. Mine was the only one claimed in the entire place but clearly he came for that one and was going to try and rules lawyer me out of it.


Going forward, if you intend to hold or claim a camp, your group must retain presence at that camp. If you have no competition in the zone, you are more than welcome to hold as many as you like. The moment another party wants to claim a camp and you are "farming" multiple, you must decide which camp you want and forfeit the ones someone else is interested in. We still expect players to use the courtesy camp check before zerging a room. If there is a full spawn of mobs in a camp room up I think that would be considered not camped. How you pull the camp is up to you, as long as you are able to engage the mobs very shortly after they are spawned.

*Example* You are doing Ghoul Magi, Lord, and Frenzy in lguk. Another group arrives to claim a camp. If they stumble upon a spawned room devoid of players, they can claim it. Where your group resides is your camp; choose wisely.


Wow, look at that, the Camp's Defined thread has some sort of definition for the exact scenario you've described here...weird, almost like the server staff intended it that way.

Your 2nd example really perplexes me; what reason do level 60's have for clearing Crushbone? Killing 1 hill giant will yield enough platinum to buy any drop in the zone easily.

Citing your ignorance to the rules in your example one, I'm inclined to believe your example two its either fabrication to lobby support of your rule breaking in example 1, or a misrepresentation of actual events.

Learn the damn rules and use them, its why they are there. Not doing so is like getting upset when people don't let you steal from them, on the grounds that you wouldn't get mad at them if the tables were turned.

[Stinkum]

All it will accomplish in this regard is giving the dickheads better gear so they have an even easier time monopolizing content and stealing camps.

Imagine you have a big birthday cake. Everybody wants a piece of it, but there's not enough for everyone. In the case of Kunark, the cake got bigger.. But the same people just took larger pieces of the cake for themselves than they were before. There was no magical "surplus cake" that "trickled down" to those of us with actual lives outside of EQ.

I really hope that nobody is kidding themselves that some kind of socialist utopia is on the horizon with Velious.

[Ennewi]

Imagine you have a big birthday cake. Everybody wants a piece of it, but there's not enough for everyone.

http://imageshack.com/a/img822/1605/une1.jpg (http://imageshack.com/i/muune1j)Uploaded with ImageShack.com (http://imageshack.com)

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Would only silence people for about a month, and all that would really happen would be the rule lawyering moves to snow heavy places :p

Agree. I am always not sure to take seriously people who think Velious will change much of anything.

Here's a news flash Walter Cronkite, it won't. Not on Red, not on Blue.

http://media.giphy.com/media/K2hWvw8FEava8/giphy.gif

[skipdog]

I love when I see these posts about how amazing the community in P99 is, Yeah i know that guy gave you his vendor trash loot that one time and the newbies in CB are all pretty nice. But the truth is that this servers community is pretty horrible, shit even new MMORPGs have friendlier players.

The contested content in this game combined with a bunch of pathetic losers who have nothing else in life to be proud of trying to be the top dog they could never be on live has created a hilariously bad community here in the past couple years.

I'd like to respectfully disagree. I've played so many online games on many servers and this one stands out as having an exceptionally helpful and nice player base. I generally only read about these 'horror stories' in the forums. I've encountered so very few assholes in the huge amount of time I've played on here. I just realized I think this is the 3rd time I've replied to this same exact 'p1999 server community is the WORST' post that you keep making haha! Not sure why I bother.. just bugs me hearing statements that I so strongly disagree with from someone so new to this server/forum!

[kenzar]

The same thing happened to me in LGuk once. Zone was completely empty, and I was killing ass/sup in my downtime. Some guy enters the zone and immediate calls "CC," I call my both and he immediately rule-lawyers me into claiming one camp. Fair enough. Later on, I discover the same guy was running around killing 5 different camps the whole time, including ass/sup, shortly after trying to bully me to retreat to my camp. The only reason he called CC was so he could try to intimidate me to one camp while he ran around killing everything else.

Red server may be filled with sociopaths and griefers, but Blue is filled with the most selfish, rule-lawyering faggots in online gaming.

I love when I see these posts about how amazing the community in P99 is, Yeah i know that guy gave you his vendor trash loot that one time and the newbies in CB are all pretty nice. But the truth is that this servers community is pretty horrible, shit even new MMORPGs have friendlier players.

The contested content in this game combined with a bunch of pathetic losers who have nothing else in life to be proud of trying to be the top dog they could never be on live has created a hilariously bad community here in the past couple years.


If you happen to meet a few players who seem like assholes; they're assholes.
If everyone you happen to meet seems like an asshole; you're the asshole.

[Stinkum]

If you happen to meet a few players who seem like assholes; their assholes.

What about their assholes?

[kenzar]

What about their assholes?

it would seem they're you.

[Derubael]

the crushbone incident is zone disruption so yes petition it

[Stinkum]

it would seem they're you.

Nice ninja edit. ;)

[Splorf22]

If you happen to meet a few players who seem like assholes; they're assholes.
If everyone you happen to meet seems like an asshole; you're the asshole.

Basically this. Amazingly, some of the biggest trolls on the forums have bad interactions in-game.

[kaev]

There're certainly plenty of jerks around here, but they are fairly heavily outnumbered by the nice folks so it's generally not hard to have pleasant relations with other players. Raid & camp drama sometimes make things seem (a lot) worse than they usually are. As others have pointed out, if you act out yourself for any reason you're a lot more likely to be on the receiving end of the same.

[amishriot]

What are their names?

kalderia is the shaman. I don't remember how the wizards name was spelled

[amishriot]

I would call Chief and BGs one camp.

To the OP: I have a bit of disdain for the use of the term rule lawyering. It seems like every one will always be able to make a derogatory term for someone doing something they don't like. If someone trained you and you complained it was against the rules you would be rule lawyering but I doubt your acceptance of the term in that situation.

Anyway, mixed feelings about your Guk example. Primarily because on several occasions I have walked into Guk called a CC and had one person claim half they were doing half the camps, which in addition to being against the server rules is just ridiculous. I made my way to one of the camps and found it completely spawned. I've also seen people call claim to camps that they want and plan to head to but are no where near. Incidents like that make it somewhat infuriating when someone calls a camp and isn't there. However, you only called one camp so unless I showed up at the camp and found it spawned I would probably be fine, even though you should stay at the camp you are claiming.

The two lvl 60s in CB is just dumb. Even if they were powerleveling someone there are of ton of better places to go that aren't occupied by level appropriate groups trying to xp.

I don't think anyone should be forced to stay in one room to be able to claim a camp when the zone is virtually empty. I had been in there for a couple hours by myself except for the one guy soloing at the zoneline. Its absurd to think that leaving the ass/sup room to kill a mob that nobody wanted should be a problem. He was only using that as an excuse. I even said I would stop killing to ritualist if he wanted it but he said he didn't.

I agree its dumb when people try to claim 5 camps when others want them but if they are only claiming 1 and killing it easily it shouldn't matter if you are in that room or not. Sometimes its safer to more convenient to sit somewhere else.

As for the training example. I would never quote the rules because someone trained me. I might go off on them or petition if I had reason to believe it was done intentional but its got nothing to do with the rules and everything to do with it just being a dick move. If someone is jerk enough to intentionally train someone I doubt there being a rule against is going to stop them.

[amishriot]

Says the guy who was trying to hold multiple camps even though someone else wanted a piece of the action.

I wasn't trying to hold multiple camps I was holding one. There was nobody else in the zone so I branched out for a while with the intention of giving it up the second anyone came in wanting it. Seriously do you see a problem with that? I don't think there is anything in the rules saying you cant kill anything outside your camp just that you can't claim anything else. Which I didn't

[amishriot]

I'd like to clarify these dude's second story as I was playing a noob in crushbone those nights. The 2 dudes were there by themselves, ( this guy is lying and generally if you ask of the people who have been in cb those days he is an entitled pain in the ass) when me and my group showed up they gave us whatever they wanted and even helped us. This dude shows up and doesn't even bother communicating with them because he "doesn't feel like he should have too" and just starts shouting insults. Don't take this guy at his word he's leaving their side of the story out. They were very helpful to plenty of people and they didn't take any of my groups or others mobs when people showed up. In his mind high levels should not even be allowed to zone into lower level zones.

way to misrepresent me. First of all I did talk to them and they said if I told them which camp i wanted they would leave that one alone. I explained why this is not really an acceptable situation. Second they came in the next night and despite my group claiming the castle they just decided to take it over because half of it was spawned. You take their side because they gave up the castle for you, good for you but not good for everyone else in the zone.

I don't think im an "entitled pain in the ass" just because I don't think its fair that a lev 10 should have to ask for permission to get some mobs to kill in crushbone from two lev 60s who shouldn't be killing anything in there anyway. I never said they shouldn't be allowed to zone in. I go in there with my main all the time to buff noobies. I just don't want them to kill everything in the zone, forcing us to beg for mobs. Just because you had an easy time with them doesn't mean they treated everyone else the same way.

[amishriot]

Wow, look at that, the Camp's Defined thread has some sort of definition for the exact scenario you've described here...weird, almost like the server staff intended it that way.

Your 2nd example really perplexes me; what reason do level 60's have for clearing Crushbone? Killing 1 hill giant will yield enough platinum to buy any drop in the zone easily.

Citing your ignorance to the rules in your example one, I'm inclined to believe your example two its either fabrication to lobby support of your rule breaking in example 1, or a misrepresentation of actual events.

Learn the damn rules and use them, its why they are there. Not doing so is like getting upset when people don't let you steal from them, on the grounds that you wouldn't get mad at them if the tables were turned.

WTF is your problem? You just proved that I wasn't breaking any rules with that. I never thought I was and as soon as the other guy came in I DID choose a single camp. You either didn't read or didn't understand what I was saying. I don't need the rules to tell me how not to be an asshole.

[Psionide]

"I don't think anyone should be forced to stay in one room to be able to claim a camp when the zone is virtually empty"- Sorry those are the rules. So it's ok for your to claim multiple mobs when the zone is virtually empty but not the wizard and shaman?

" had been in there for a couple hours by myself except for the one guy soloing at the zoneline."Again same deal here, so it's ok for you to take whatever you want when the zone is empty. Your problem was when the wizard and shaman showed up you didn't feel the need to communicate with them because you didn't feel that you should have to ask.

"There was nobody else in the zone so I branched out for a while with the intention of giving it up the second anyone came in wanting it" Again same deal here and what did you say yourself the shaman and wizard said to you? Oh here it is..............."They said I could have a camp but I had to tell them which one it was I wanted. First of all I did talk to them and they said if I told them which camp i wanted they would leave that one alone."

So let me sum this up............"There was nobody else in the zone so I branched out for a while with the intention of giving it up the second anyone came in wanting it"

Which were your words, then the 60s words......First of all I did talk to them and they said if I told them which camp i wanted they would leave that one alone."

[webrunner5]

The old "He says, She says" thingy. :p

[Gadwen]

A lot of people struggling to understand.

Forcing someone to stay at a single camp with the threat of losing it because you'll move in as soon as they try to pull an extra mob, while you take the rest of the zone, is a dick move.

Stop being a dick, you'll be a happier person.

[Weekapaug]

A lot of people struggling to understand.

Forcing someone to stay at a single camp with the threat of losing it because you'll move in as soon as they try to pull an extra mob, while you take the rest of the zone, is a dick move.

Stop being a dick, you'll be a happier person.

[Swish]

A lot of people struggling to understand.

Forcing someone to stay at a single camp with the threat of losing it because you'll move in as soon as they try to pull an extra mob, while you take the rest of the zone, is a dick move.

Stop being a dick, you'll be a happier person.

pras Gadwen

[myriverse]

A lot of people struggling to understand.

Forcing someone to stay at a single camp with the threat of losing it because you'll move in as soon as they try to pull an extra mob, while you take the rest of the zone, is a dick move.

Stop being a dick, you'll be a happier person.
No. That's the opposite of being a dick. The dick is the one pulling from more than one place.

[Weekapaug]

No. That's the opposite of being a dick. The dick is the one pulling from more than one place.

Bullshit. Re-read what is actually being discussed.

Guy 1 is alone in a zone. He is camping named spawn A but pulling trash for exp/vendor loot between spawns as well as clearing other named camps (X and Y for purposes of this example) since he can handle all of it. Spawn times of anywhere from 16 to 45 mins are the norm in classic EQ and there is no reason to sit around on your nuts when you are alone in a zone just because you are after one particular thing.

Guy 2 enters and calls for a camp check. Guy 1 answers camp A but that he is also clearing X and Y. Instead of being an etchical and courteous player, Guy 2 chooses to be a typical p99 rule lawyering nutsack and tells Guy 1 he has to sit at the spawn he wants or he will take it from him, citing the non-classic server rule regarding camps that never existed on live. Not wanting to lose the spawn he is after, Guy 1 does exactly that, losing all chances of getting exp, cash loot, or the potential of other named drops that he has already spent the time and effort clearing. Guy 2 proceeds to farm camps X and Y, as well as B, C, D, E.....etc. Because he has not committed to a camp and is farming anything that drops, he uses the nonclassic camp rule that never existed on live to pin Guy 1 down to one camp, opening the entire rest of the zone up to himself. He could just leave the content that Guy 1 was clearing and handling just fine before he got there alone, but when you are an asshole and have a rule you can lawyer on your side, why do something like that?

One of these players is a dick, and it's not the player who was there first.

[NegaStoat]

Read the original post, read this last page's worth, and then I read the server rules. I'm left with a question.

With the Lower Guk situation, a new player enters the zone and sees most everything is dead. They call a camp check, so the first person calls out the camp they want most and will keep cleared. I get that. The new player then calls out a camp they really want that is not the primary camp the first one calls out and then...

What happens to the extra camps? Is the new player wrong to attempt to clear the spawns near the central point of the camp they now claimed? Is the first player wrong to continue to clear everything that they can in the place, excluding the new player's claimed camp?

From the server rules, it appears (or is implied) that it becomes a FFA situation. Only one camp can be claimed by one player. So are they both dicks to compete against each other for those open camps? The rules pretty much place them as fair game.

Edit - agreed that the 2nd player in the actual situation was a dick to use implied threat of loss of the prized camp for dominating the rest of the zone.

[Swish]

2nd player (the lawyer in this case) needs to at a minimum adhere to the rules he's trying to put on the 1st player - rules which are sketchy considering the situation.

If he is taking ass/sup, he needs to sit in there for as long as he wants the camp, otherwise he'll lose his own camp under the same consequences he took it in the first place.

Who'd want to be a GM though, in all honesty... trying to sort out that shit? ;)

[Weekapaug]

Assuming both players claim a camp each, yes. Problem is the rules lawyers use the non classic rule to make the other person sit at one spawn, while not claiming one of their own. If you've been camping a particular item alone for hours, you don't want to lose it. So the assholes, basicly, cite the rule to threaten you with taking your camp from you to get you out of the way so they can take whatever they want. It's ridiculous.

[Swish]

Assuming both players claim a camp each, yes. Problem is the rules lawyers use the non classic rule to make the other person sit at one spawn, while not claiming one of their own. If you've been camping a particular item alone for hours, you don't want to lose it. So the assholes, basicly, cite the rule to threaten you with taking your camp from you to get you out of the way so they can take whatever they want. It's ridiculous.

Yep, if they can't play by their own rulebook I'd petition, or time the death of one of their valued camps and be there 5-10 minutes before its due up again. Assuming they aren't already in there, they won't like that.

Cite their own rule back at them ;)

If they KS, petition...simples. Sadly you have to stoop to their level to flush them out of the zone :p

[amishriot]

"I don't think anyone should be forced to stay in one room to be able to claim a camp when the zone is virtually empty"- Sorry those are the rules. So it's ok for your to claim multiple mobs when the zone is virtually empty but not the wizard and shaman?

" had been in there for a couple hours by myself except for the one guy soloing at the zoneline."Again same deal here, so it's ok for you to take whatever you want when the zone is empty. Your problem was when the wizard and shaman showed up you didn't feel the need to communicate with them because you didn't feel that you should have to ask.

"There was nobody else in the zone so I branched out for a while with the intention of giving it up the second anyone came in wanting it" Again same deal here and what did you say yourself the shaman and wizard said to you? Oh here it is..............."They said I could have a camp but I had to tell them which one it was I wanted. First of all I did talk to them and they said if I told them which camp i wanted they would leave that one alone."

So let me sum this up............"There was nobody else in the zone so I branched out for a while with the intention of giving it up the second anyone came in wanting it"

Which were your words, then the 60s words......First of all I did talk to them and they said if I told them which camp i wanted they would leave that one alone."

There is a huge difference in the situations here. First of all they are lev 60 in zone designed for 4-20. Second I wasn't trying to claim any specific mobs, its crushbone....I just wanted to xp off whatever was open. It's completely different from a high level item camp. Sure people will claim camps when there are lots of people around but when theres 5 noobs in the zone its usually not really needed. Some of the people in zone were higher than me and some were lower level. We go after different mobs and sometimes those cross camps. We were all getting along just fine. The only problem was the 2 dickheads killing everything.

I did communicate with them and they ignored our claim on the castle because half of it was spawned. Also once again they are lev 60 in curshbone and I don't care if the rules say its ok...its still a dick move and if you can't see that then you are totally unreasonable and no amount of logic is ever gonna get through to you.

people of appropriate level should never have to compete for mobs or beg for a camp from high levels. When I go into that zone with my main I do buffs, and maybe tag mobs for faction but I don't kill anything but you don't know what everyone else is doing and it isn't fair for me to disrupt their zone. Don't even try to make a case that a lev 60 has just as much right to the zone. Other than camping an item they want then they shouldn't be killing anything let alone killing everything.

Sometimes the mobs in the camp you are at are not enough for your group. If there are very few people in the zone you should be able to branch out and kill more. You shouldn't have to beg some lev 60s for more "land" They are a zone disruption

[amishriot]

I think I'm done camping items for a while. I had another incident today with that damn ass/sup camp. I had been there for a few hours minding my own business. Not killing any other camps. Many people came through, waved and left. Something important in real life came up and I had to afk for 5 mins or so. I wasn't sure how long id be afk so I went down and sat by the ladder, near where drop down hole. I came back 5 mins later and there had been a CC by Afara. I went up the ladder to find him sitting in my camp. So i sent him a tell saying - This is my camp, I had to afk for a few mins, I'm sorry I missed your cc. He responds with doing the rules lawyer bullshit because i was outside the room. It wasn't like i was very far. He claims to have not seen me sitting next to the ladder but i find that really hard to believe because I didn't even invis since i wanted to keep my pet and knew i wasn't gonna be that long. Everything was dead when he showed up and i was sitting in plain sight to anyone who cared to look in the only safe spot to be. Because i was at the bottom of the ladder instead of the top he decides thats a good reason to steal my camp.

He said he only wanted the bag and I told him he could have it since I already had one but that wasn't good enough for him. He told me if I gave him my bag he would go away. I said no because I don't know this guy and he could just take my bag and KS the mob for the belt anyway. I attempted to speak to a guild officer of his hoping to get this sorted out peacefully but there wasn't any on. The supplier spawned and I pulled it. He starts blasting it with undead nukes so I charmed it because i know i can't keep up with his damage. I try to reason with him once again and he refuses to cooperate so i try to kill the mob off on another mob. I'd rather lose the thing then give up without a fight to some guy who wants to bully into my camp. He just kills the mobs that I attacked though so that isn't working. I ran down the stairs and broke the charm and nuked the mob down, he was right behind me and trying to nuke it as well. Mob starts to run and of course pulls a bunch of mobs onto us both. Lucky me of course he can just FD so I die. I'm not saying he pulled a train on me I just want to make that clear before he comes in here and tries to strawman this story. It just happened in the struggle over the mob. Although he should never have been attacking it in the first place.

To all the rules lawyers who are going to support this guy I would like to point out a few technicalities. The room was not spawned it was all dead. The rules state you have to maintain a presence at the camp. It doesn't say you must be inside the room, although for the 2+ hours i was there previously I never left for a second. There is also something about no respect for AFK camping and I'm sure some arsehole will bring that up so I'm gonna respond to that now. I read that rule and it seems like its meant for longterm rather than a single incident of having to walk away from the computer to take care of some personal stuff for a whole 5 mins. It alsodoesn't say its grounds for someone to take you camp for leaving the keyboard for a few mins. I'm sure that wont stop the rules lawyers from sighting that one but not even Afara tried to go there.

Had no other problems with anyone else in the zone and even tried to give that bag away for food and water or even just for free but they kept rotting because nobody came. Most people respect camps but its the few out there that make these camping rules needed because they try to claim entire floors or steal someones camp. I just want to be left alone in peace to do an item camp and not have to worry that if i afk for 5 mins some guy will jack the camp. It's just not worth the stress to me anymore. I think the good people on this server out number the bad by a lot but the bad ones really ruin it for us all and make us all have to stress over camping stuff because of their selfishness. Thx for ruining what had been a nice relaxing camp Afara, I hope Europa is proud of you.

[myriverse]

Maintaining a presence at the camp is being in the room. You left your camp to go afk, thereby losing your camp. That's not rules lawyering.

[amishriot]

Maintaining a presence at the camp is being in the room. You left your camp to go afk, thereby losing your camp. That's not rules lawyering.

I don't see in the rules where it says maintaining a presence at the camp means you have to sit on top of the spawns. What counts as a room? Its not like they have doors. These rules were obviously put there to stop people from claiming multiple camps, roaming to each. Something I definitely wasn't doing since I never left the area. You say the room and at the top of the ladder? well I say it ends at bottom. Prove you are correct.

If you have to resort to technicalities to make a case then that is rules lawyering. How about just leaving people alone to their camp and you goto one thats open? Do you honestly feel like nobody is allowed to ever go afk for a few mins? That's ridiculous and im pretty sure that was never intended by the rules. It's not like i was going afk for 20 mins every spawn. It was 5 mins out of 2+ hours/ Unfortunately rules lawyers, like yourself make this into a fight rather than a friendly game.

[Millburn]

We've gone full circle here and now you've become the rules lawyer, you left your camp and you lost it. Don't be a jerk and accept it duder.

[myriverse]

I don't see in the rules where it says maintaining a presence at the camp means you have to sit on top of the spawns. What counts as a room? Its not like they have doors. These rules were obviously put there to stop people from claiming multiple camps, roaming to each. Something I definitely wasn't doing since I never left the area. You say the room and at the top of the ladder? well I say it ends at bottom. Prove you are correct.

If you have to resort to technicalities to make a case then that is rules lawyering. How about just leaving people alone to their camp and you goto one thats open? Do you honestly feel like nobody is allowed to ever go afk for a few mins? That's ridiculous and im pretty sure that was never intended by the rules. It's not like i was going afk for 20 mins every spawn. It was 5 mins out of 2+ hours/ Unfortunately rules lawyers, like yourself make this into a fight rather than a friendly game.
You admitted to leaving the area. Going AFK leaves the area. You were not present, therefor you had no presence in the area.

No technicalities. This isn't rocket science. Words mean shit.

[Swish]

Think how much worse this whole thread would be if boxing were allowed on the server...

[NegaStoat]

You admitted to leaving the area. Going AFK leaves the area. You were not present, therefor you had no presence in the area.

No technicalities. This isn't rocket science. Words mean shit.

Edit - The GM later in the thread cleared up the matter. All things considered, I'll still take screenshots and host them for evidence reference if I have to Petition someone who won't follow the rules.

[Flipsyo]

i like to troll people that do this sometimes. I see how long i can make their responses with as few words as i can

[Llodd]

You admitted to leaving the area. Going AFK leaves the area. You were not present, therefor you had no presence in the area.

No technicalities. This isn't rocket science. Words mean shit.

Of course all very true. And yet the words "you are a dick" spring readily and so easily to mind in situations like this.

I mean, god forbid people actually might communicate and work things out amicably (like the op tried) But hey where's the grief to be had from that? I don't personally have anything against the rules, they serve their purpose. The problem is that the rules are far more advantageous to dick heads than they are to people of an ethical persuasion.

[Derubael]

Not going to lie, I just briefly skimmed this thread, but thought I'd clarify -

If you leave a spawn up for 5 mins, someone absolutely has a right to come in and take the camp from you - and I'd rule in their favor if someone petitioned.


I'm sorry this situation frustrated you so much. We've all been there more than a few times. Just remember that it's only a game, and go get some AC sleeves :)

[Robdukes]

Not going to lie, I just briefly skimmed this thread, but thought I'd clarify -

if you're sitting afk at a camp for 5 mins when its not popped, someone absolutely has a right to come in and take the camp from you
)

So If you do what alot of people do and clear a camp then sit down and watch some netflix and glance at the monitor occasionally while keeping an eye on your timer..then someone shows up 1 minute after you clear camp and you don't notice then they can petition you after waiting 5 minutes in the shadows and take your camp.

Seems like this can be abused very easily.

Do they have to have AFK up and not answer to many tells? or is AFK just assumed because someone didn't answer 1 message? Where is the line drawn. Why not wait until the mob pops then see if the guy is actually AFK or just anti-social or has a youtube window blocking his chat window and watching for mob to spawn above that.

Not a big deal to me because I don't AFK a camp I care about keeping but still.

[NegaStoat]

Seems like this can be abused very easily.

Do they have to have AFK up and not answer to many tells? or is AFK just assumed because someone didn't answer 1 message? Where is the line drawn. Why not wait until the mob pops then see if the guy is actually AFK or just anti-social or has a youtube window blocking his chat window and watching for mob to spawn above that.

Not a big deal to me because I don't AFK a camp I care about keeping but still.

This is a really excellent point. I'll constantly go solo with a character and bust out some college homework or watch videos (re watching all of Babylon 5 at the moment) in between spawns. I'll adjust my windows so that I see the last 2 lines of chat text unobstructed, as well as have the spawn point clear on my monitor but...

Should I always expect the other players to play the same way I do? Is it required that they constantly be checking their chat window for /tells & camp checks?

In a dungeon environment, it's probably the right thing to do. Or at a camp like an AC spawn site. But what are the clear requirements?

[Derubael]

From camps, defined:

1. Going forward, if you intend to hold or claim a camp, your group must retain presence at that camp. If you have no competition in the zone, you are more than welcome to hold as many as you like. The moment another party wants to claim a camp and you are "farming" multiple, you must decide which camp you want and forfeit the ones someone else is interested in. We still expect players to use the courtesy camp check before zerging a room. If there is a full spawn of mobs in a camp room up I think that would be considered not camped. How you pull the camp is up to you, as long as you are able to engage the mobs very shortly after they are spawned.

*Example* You are doing Ghoul Magi, Lord, and Frenzy in lguk. Another group arrives to claim a camp. If they stumble upon a spawned room devoid of players, they can claim it. Where your group resides is your camp; choose wisely.

2. Just because you know the timer a mob's spawn does NOT mean you are entitled to the camp. Examples include Ishva mal, Estrella, and Undertow. I have seen too many threads about ishva mal in particular where there is a person there at the camp and someone comes and either KS's the spawn or charms the mob to bring it somewhere else etc claiming it was theirs due to it being on timer. If you are trying to timer a spawn and you arrive and someone else is there, too bad, you should have been there earlier.

3. The efreeti spawn kind of covers both of these situations, with this camp in particular if you are not at the spawn and another group arrives, you lose it.

4. In order to hold a camp, the player or group must be able to demonstrate the ability to hold the camp without further help.
*Example* An enchanter and lvl 40 ranger are in a group. The enchanter leaves to go kill frenzy and the ranger stay at lord. In this instance both camps are not considered held as the ranger could not survive this camp on his own without the enchanter.

6. AFK camping is not respected and is frowned upon, if caught afk camping you will be booted to the character select screen.

bolded the relevant sections.


**EDIT**

I stand corrected:

AFK camping ... means letting your pet kill something, over and over, while you are afk. This is frowned upon.

AFKing between spawns on a 16 minute camp? Not afk camping..

Follow this ^

[happyhappy]

Not going to lie, I just briefly skimmed this thread, but thought I'd clarify -

If you leave a spawn up for 5 mins, or if you're sitting afk at a camp for 5 mins when its not popped, someone absolutely has a right to come in and take the camp from you - and I'd rule in their favor if someone petitioned.

Is it a dick move? Sure, I'd say it definitely could be, particularly if you'd been camping it for hours and they knew that - they still have the right to take the camp. That's how it worked on live, that's how it works here.

I'm sorry this situation frustrated you so much. We've all been there more than a few times. Just remember that it's only a game, and go get some AC sleeves :)


Nope, you should have the rights to choose what camp you want to retain if you are doing more than 1 when competition arrives. No one should be able to "ninja-camp" your spawns because the situation changed while your gone. I'd say there is definitely a time limit to this.. like respawns, you need to be back in there.

The original post "empty room" should read "room devoid of players", I can see how that is confusing.

half related

AFK camping ... means letting your pet kill something, over and over, while you are afk. This is frowned upon.

AFKing between spawns on a 16 minute camp? Not afk camping..

[Thulack]

No reason anyone should have to sit staring at a screen for 12-30 mins depending on respawns just to keep some asshat from taking your camp. It's purely a dick move to move in on someone elses camp if mobs are down period.

[Kushie]

I hate that lawyer bullshit. I had a Necro from Taken named Gibinionneth come up to Nobles the other day and ask if it was camped. I explained it was. He hovered over me for 30 minutes before deciding to get his degree in law.

30 minutes of hovering he asks when i'm going to leave. He then suddenly wants 2 of the 4 mobs total, and declares they are separate camps. He started threatening me with GM petition, citing rules and got very rude after I asked for his patience. I've spent 15+ hours in this camp and 5+ hours waiting for it to open up, and have never seen any other necro try to split the camp in half.

I didn't want to deal with a douchebag social reject so I just let him have the entire camp and gated. Every other necro on the server respects the camp. It's almost perma camped, so i'm sure this asshole has tried to cut others exp in half. It's not worth it for either of us to be there if we can only have 2 mobs.

[Nordenwatch]

Wait... you seriously kick people out for being AFK at a camp while the mob is dead? That's completely ridiculous, most people who do not need exp (60's) often wont clear any mobs that they don't have to. A good example is sebilis king where people would JUST kill the king / ph and afk for 24 minutes or so.

This is MOST of what I do nowadays, AFK camp things with long respawns while I do work. Think about the consequences of having the rule of "if you aren't there to respond within 1 min you lose camp". This means if I leave to take a shit or go to the door for whatever reason, I could lose any camp. CONSTANT VIGILANCE is not part of the blue experience

Thank god that got cleared up... the petition queue would be much larger if this was in place.

[Derubael]

Edited both my posts to avoid confusion :)

[Pint]

Not going to lie, I just briefly skimmed this thread, but thought I'd clarify - if you're sitting afk at a camp for 5 mins when its not popped, someone absolutely has a right to come in and take the camp from you - and I'd rule in their favor if someone petitioned.

I know you somewhat corrected yourself a few posts down but just so Im 100% sure, if I am camping hierophant and arch duke in the seb crypt and idling (at the keyboard) between the 27min spawns, can another group roll through and claim my two phs? This happened to me 2 or 3 times last week, usually involving the same 1 or 2 people.

[webrunner5]

Oh come on. This game is 14 years old. We ALL know how it works. If you kill a mob and go take a shit and it is a bigger turd than you thought, guess what you lose!! Some other person is going to take your shit, no pun intended. MAN UP!! :p

[Clark]

First example
I was in Lguk the other day, it was me and 1 other person (soloing at the zone line) in the whole zone. I was camping the ass/sup room but also killing the ritualist. Someone came in and did a champ check. I called ass/sup but not the ritualist. a min later while i was killing the ritualist he send me a tell to ask where i am. I tell him in in front of ritualist. He goes on to start quoting server rules to me about how I can't claim 2 camps, I had to pick one. I said I wasn't claiming 2 and he was free to take the ritualist, I was only claiming ass/sup. This wasn't good enough for him though because i wasn't currently in the ass/sup spawn room, even though it was cleared. So I moved there because he started quoting rules about claiming camps and that I had to be in the room. There was so many other camps he could have taken. Mine was the only one claimed in the entire place but clearly he came for that one and was going to try and rules lawyer me out of it.

That guy sounds mega lame. Who tries to make someone separate assassin/rhitualist. If that isn't the freaking dumbest shit I've seen in a while I don't know what is lol.

[Clark]

I know you somewhat corrected yourself a few posts down but just so Im 100% sure, if I am camping hierophant and arch duke in the seb crypt and idling (at the keyboard) between the 27min spawns, can another group roll through and claim my two phs? This happened to me 2 or 3 times last week, usually involving the same 1 or 2 people.

That sounds pathetic to me as well. Who are these wannabes trying to unrightfully chase people off claimed camps. Low class bums?

[Weekapaug]

Been in live-ville for a few weeks. Can't believe this thread is still going.

Hold the camp/s you claim. Honor other people's camps. If you genuinely want a camp someone else has claimed work it out. If you can't hold your camp and others want it and can hold it, give it to them and come back after you've levelled and geared some. If you are just farming, don't be a nutsack. If you were there first, be generous. If you weren't there first, don't be an asshat.

Forget what the letter of the rule says, don't be an asshole. Jesus H, people, it's really not that hard to not be a dildo all your life.

[Swish]

So a wizard casts an eye of zomm from the ass/sup room...

[Llodd]

Not going to lie, I just briefly skimmed this thread, but thought I'd clarify -

If you leave a spawn up for 5 mins, someone absolutely has a right to come in and take the camp from you - and I'd rule in their favor if someone petitioned.


I'm sorry this situation frustrated you so much. We've all been there more than a few times. Just remember that it's only a game, and go get some AC sleeves :)

That's the problwm with skimming. The wrong conclusions are drawn. All but the maddest of people wouldn't complain at all if a mob was left up for 5 minutes and someone else took it