Rogue Hide & Sneak

[Andis]

Rogues do use sneak and hide together to move 'invisibly'... in fact better than invisibly in many cases. If you 'hide' without sneaking also, once you move you are unhidden. The order in which you hit sneak and hide are unimportant, except for when you are levitating in some manner. In that case you have to 'sneak' before 'hide' in order for hide to work. You can 'sneak' on the move, but must be still to start to 'hide'.

Many mobs will never see thru hide. Very very few mobs will notice you sneaking when you are behind them. Mobs that see invisible will usually have a 'chance' to see through sneak/hide. This chance is affected by difference in level between you and the mob, and also your skill rating, if not maxed once you get over level 39 or so (as a rogue).

This becomes more and more of a factor in higher levels. For the most part at lower levels something will either see you or not, and it will be consistent. Still, /con mobs to be safe. I know that some mobs that saw through my rogue's sneak/hide at level 50, don't now see through it when he's level 59. Also, some types of mobs can spawn able to see through sneak/hide, but do not always do so. Goos in City of Mist are one example.

Sneak/hide also renders you invisible to undead in most cases. /Con is your friend to find out when it doesnt.

You cannot start to sneak and hide underwater, but you can continue to sneak/hide from dry land into the water. Hurts in places like Kedge Keep.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/skills.html?skill=43

Creowatha
Scholar
*

Mobs never had a "see invisible rogues" spell.
__________________

some evidence regarding this rog hide sneak issue

nilblog and others please take a look, some evidence from 2003.

they way it is currently working, is worse than it really should be

a rogues ability to hide and sneak should be greater than a mobs ability to see reg invis, and ivu in this case.

pls look into this and thanks.

[Danien]

Rogue sneak/hide was nothing special until Planes of Power was released (2002) where they got the Shroud of Stealth AA. Prior to that I wouldn't even say it gave an advantage over a regular invis (save for sneaking behind mobs).

[Holey]

i think in the timeline were only in the 2000's lol

[Holey]

im not against on this on anything or trying to argue, but being a rogue nowdays is hard lol. especially for group/raid CR's in Fear.... (which i havent done in a while) but if done, its hard to con EVERY single mob. but hey CON is your friend.

[Nizzarr]

We proved that shroud of stealth shouldnt have been in the game. deal with it already you jersey faggot.

[Andis]

deal with it already you jersey faggot.

lolol someones mad

sorry didnt understand you, the butter on your teeth made it near impossible to understand.

french faggot.

[Retti_]

See invising every mob

http://global3.memecdn.com/no-need-for-racism_c_104286.jpg

[heartbrand]

Sneak hide works as it did in classic, much like rangers suck, hybrids have no discs, discs all on same refresh, etc. Stop shitting up forums with this it's a classic server.

[heartbrand]

Rogue sneak/hide was nothing special until Planes of Power was released (2002) where they got the Shroud of Stealth AA. Prior to that I wouldn't even say it gave an advantage over a regular invis (save for sneaking behind mobs).

Nice to see someone else who actually played classic eq

[Chronoburn]

Pretty sure classic hide for a rogue was just invis+IVU ... mobs saw through my hide/sneak all the time on live until SoS.

[JayN]

Ask for an invis, its better then sneak hide lol

[Andis]

Ask for an invis, its better then sneak hide lol

shits retarded

[Nothxu]

some evidence regarding this rog hide sneak issue

nilblog and others please take a look, some evidence from 2003.

they way it is currently working, is worse than it really should be

a rogues ability to hide and sneak should be greater than a mobs ability to see reg invis, and ivu in this case.

pls look into this and thanks.

Haha, Andis you are such a pussy. Shit's classic, deal with it bra.

[HippoNipple]

You want to be sneakier than a rogue with any class?

http://wiki.project1999.com/Cloudy_Potion

http://wiki.project1999.com/Potion_of_Unlife_Awareness

[Versch]

Rogue sneak/hide was nothing special until Planes of Power was released (2002) where they got the Shroud of Stealth AA. Prior to that I wouldn't even say it gave an advantage over a regular invis (save for sneaking behind mobs).

Not completely true. I played a rogue Velious - early Luclin and never got the SoS AA. I can't speak for true classic, but in that era I could definitely sneak/hide most places without shit seeing me. I vividly remember sneak/hiding all the way to Vox's lair for CRs, and the only mob that saw through it was the Lady herself.

[Retti_]

So u sneak hide behind green goblins successfully during velious saweet

[diplo]

So u sneak hide behind green goblins successfully during velious saweet

best gif ever.EVER

[Versch]

So u sneak hide behind green goblins successfully during velious saweet

more like the IGs, terrors, bears and shit didn't see me. Don't a few of those see invis? fuck if i remember, I'm just trying to say that it was superior to regular invis back in that timeframe.

[heartbrand]

most of those dont even see invis

[HippoNipple]

most of those dont even see invis

I was thinking the same thing, basically just caster mobs.

[Retti_]

Just the magi giants I think

[Andis]

yes the giants do, we all know rogues got shroud of stealth in PoP but that was for named mobs, dragons, gods... etc. shit in seb and unrest/guk did not see rog hide at all from what i remember before SoS

[Slytherin]

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/skills.html?skill=450

I have had SoS for about 3 weeks now. It is definately worth the AA costs. I can wander the old world dungeons and have been able to wander HoH, Drunder with ease. Great for mapping, scouting and of course Corpse recovery.

Cuttwin
Rogue of 63 long seasons

http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2855

List of Creatures That Can See Through Hide
Dragons (Vox and Nagafen)
Fire Giants
Scorn Banshees
Lichs
Loathing Lichs
Evil Eyes
Huge Elemental (Lower Guk)

[Andis]

List of Creatures That Can See Through Hide

Dragons (Vox and Nagafen)
Fire Giants
Scorn Banshees
Lichs
Loathing Lichs
Evil Eyes
Huge Elemental (Lower Guk)


no where on that list do I see seb, chardok, or hole mobs listed

[NotKringe]

That list is pretty accurate.

[Classic]

No regular bs classic mob see invis mobs had a 100% chance to see rogue hide/sneak. Let me repost something from the bug reports forum. (Wizards, undead, whatever)

If rogues are getting seen by regular see invis mobs, something is wrong.

I played a rogue on live from early Kunark forward and could get to places many other classes could not get with invis. Rare see invis mobs of any type could see rogues, and some mob types could always see through hide. Certain zones had a lot of mobs that could see through it... plane of hate/Tov/deep Kael.

Just checked the safehouse for reference and this confirms it:

http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2855

List of Creatures That Can See Through Hide
Dragons (Vox and Nagafen)
Fire Giants
Scorn Banshees
Lichs
Loathing Lichs
Evil Eyes
Huge Elemental (Lower Guk)

http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/showthread.php?t=2852

Forsaken Revanant, Male - undead Magician - They look like male vampires and have normal magic resistance. They also cast a mean damage shield and nasty AE direct damage. Undead magic does work. They drop mage gear. They do not see rogues, but do see normal invis. They have normal aggro range.

I don't play a rogue here, but comeon, this is fundamental stuff...

Also...

NIZZAR AND HEARTBRAND STOP BEING FUCKING ASSHOLES.

It's not working as intended. YOU are both not on the staff. You both don't get to be final arbiter on whats classic without evidence.

GO POST EVIDENCE OF WHAT SPECIFIC MOBS SEE INVIS 100% of the time in classic.

It's you and your ILK that bring this project down by just saying "Working as intended with ZERO effort to fact check or be even remotely un-biased" magnanimous. Or Objective.

Just so you can TROLL.

You both SERIOUSLY need to take a few MONTHS vacation in a funny farm.

And those quoting shroud of stealth, notice the phrasing "With ease". There was always ways to sneak around as a rogue in classic. You either had to re-check your hide skill or sneak behind stuff.

Right now mobs have super detection radar that is like a see invis spell. Not normal. The two skills are completely unrelated to any of the invisibility spells in the game. To use the invisibility spells to "fake the mechanic" is impossible.

**** Lastly. Sneak reduces your agro radius, no matter where your standing. Making it possible to sneak infront of mobs if you can stay far enough away in many cases you would normally otherwise agro.

Luclin may not be classic, but I snuck a level 1 vashir through paludal caverns into shadowhaven past pairs of KOS fungus beasts. (those phlemg beasts or whatever they were called). This was non-rogue sneak at level 1. And whatever the vashir skill caps were... 75.. 100 or something lower.

They didn't change sneak hide mechanics much. There was 1 patch a few months in around the kunark launching date that improved hide vs undead immensly as well as rogue/sneak hide. (Again not SoS) but still as above posters have also affirmed.

*********** If you want a fine example of one of the best staff this project ever had it was:

UTHGARD. Yes Uthgard.

I posted some incorrect information mistakenly. And he bothered to not only tell me I was wrong. BUT HE PROVED IT. He went and posted links to the actual source and what the items dropping were for.

That guy is a saint and taught me a lesson.

If you can't even follow Uthgards example. GTFO from any game mechanic discussion. Go back to farming your trak teeth.

Lastly ( and there's more evidence on allah for this one under the sneak skill forum ). You use to be able to uncheck hide while sneak/hidden behind KOS mobs and use them safely. The mobs wouldn't spin on you. I noticed here merchents spin at you. And you cannot safely use bankers this way unless you are out of LOS. Its not a big issue. But one I imagine should be looked into. This goes for every class that can sneak using vendors this way.

[Slytherin]

no where on that list do I see seb, chardok, or hole mobs listed

The guy can't tell the future... post is pre-kunark.

[heartbrand]

The guy can't tell the future... post is pre-kunark.

[Smegmy]

I trust the jew on opinion of sneak

Only in sneak

[NotKringe]

The guy can't tell the future... post is pre-kunark.

We have atleast provided evidence that those are confirmed mobs that could see through Sneak/Hide... How about you post ANY evidence that those aren't the only mobs that could and all these random_00 mobs that can now see through Sneak/Hide do so....

[heartbrand]

There's a 20 page thread of evidence in bugs forum which led to the change, you might want to start there.

[Slytherin]

We have atleast provided evidence that those are confirmed mobs that could see through Sneak/Hide... How about you post ANY evidence that those aren't the only mobs that could and all these random_00 mobs that can now see through Sneak/Hide do so....

Challenge Accepted!

From the very same post you're citing...

For example, a level 50 rogue is going to have a much better chance of making it past the bugs in Sol B, then a level 40 Rogue, even if they both have sneak and hide maxed out.

[Legend]

how come rogue/hide sneak is nerfed on blue but not on red...

time to patch that update brews

how come interrupt casting with duck dosen't work on red but works on blue

time to patch that update brews

[Colgate]

it is nerfed on red

[Danien]

yes the giants do, we all know rogues got shroud of stealth in PoP but that was for named mobs, dragons, gods... etc. shit in seb and unrest/guk did not see rog hide at all from what i remember before SoS

Playing a rogue myself I remember the exact opposite.

[Classic]

Listen up HB. There's reams of evidence for it not being a certain 100% pass.

There's also evidence posted by me that shows in general some caster mobs saw invis some didn't. They didn't all the time. See the mention of goo's.

What you are argueing is that we should take this WAD non classic, 1 0, binary spell fix to "fake it".

Nah nah.

MAKE IT CLASSIC. Every single goblin wizard didn't see through rogue hide. Same goes for mobs in Seb and Some in Chardok.

What they did is find out that some mobs had a chance to rogue invis. Then slapped in a 100% stoppage through just giving them "see invis" hardcode.

Fuck that. Get of your righteous i'm the most bearded rabbi on the server shtick. I don't care how black and white your world is. It's not a good enough reason to fuck over the weakest class in this game with WAD and inaccurate non-code fixes. Make rogue invis a % based on mob level, skill level, rogue level, and mob type.

Except for the specific cases mentioned in the "evidence".

Fix it right.

[JayN]

Not completely true. I played a rogue Velious - early Luclin and never got the SoS AA. I can't speak for true classic, but in that era I could definitely sneak/hide most places without shit seeing me. I vividly remember sneak/hiding all the way to Vox's lair for CRs, and the only mob that saw through it was the Lady herself.

Your right SoS was there for you to get corpses past see invis bosses and mobs alike, that was my job back then senior corpse drag'er!

[HippoNipple]

Listen up HB. There's reams of evidence for it not being a certain 100% pass.

There's also evidence posted by me that shows in general some caster mobs saw invis some didn't. They didn't all the time. See the mention of goo's.

What you are argueing is that we should take this WAD non classic, 1 0, binary spell fix to "fake it".

Nah nah.

MAKE IT CLASSIC. Every single goblin wizard didn't see through rogue hide. Same goes for mobs in Seb and Some in Chardok.

What they did is find out that some mobs had a chance to rogue invis. Then slapped in a 100% stoppage through just giving them "see invis" hardcode.

Fuck that. Get of your righteous i'm the most bearded rabbi on the server shtick. I don't care how black and white your world is. It's not a good enough reason to fuck over the weakest class in this game with WAD and inaccurate non-code fixes. Make rogue invis a % based on mob level, skill level, rogue level, and mob type.

Except for the specific cases mentioned in the "evidence".

Fix it right.

It sucks for rogues if things aren't working as intended. I'm sure people would agree to have it as you say but it sounds impossible to pull that off. How could you expect someone to go through every mob and code this correctly? There is absolutely no way to know what % each one should have. There would be way to much guessing.

Unfortunately slapping the invis bandaid on it is all you are going to get.

[Azure]

I think its WAD a better solution has to be out there. I'm not going to write off coding some %chances from working.

[Aenor]

Inc multiple bans for homophobic slurs.