Endless mage nerfs? [Archive]

botrainer

10-09-2013, 04:18 PM

feanan

10-09-2013, 04:30 PM

I didn't see anything in patch notes about sword of runes not procing for pets?

Also, when did mages get the ability to reclaim pets to "cani"?

Erati

10-09-2013, 04:35 PM

no complaining about nerfs til you play a druid for more than a year on this server

we are the whipping boys for the nerf bat

botrainer

10-09-2013, 04:45 PM

At the rate of players? Please, Ive been exping for nearly 3 hours today, Sword of Rune proc has yet to trigger once during this time. Its clearly broken and needs to be looked at.

Wrench

10-09-2013, 04:45 PM

This is a classic server with classic (or as close to classic as is reasonably possible) mechanics. If you believe a change has been made that is NOT classic, provide evidence of such and the devs will take it in to consideration.

Whining about mages being nerfed when they were nerfed in the classic timeline is pointless. Also, pets still proc weapons, just at the same rate as players now (read the patch notes).

Shit's classic.

dont think pet xp nerf is classic

been brought up plenty

feanan

10-09-2013, 04:45 PM

Well, cept the patch notes don't really do a good job of explaining changes.

Alecta: After November 2000 in the server timeline, pets will have their weapons proc as if they were players.

So I read this, and what i'm thinking is...

first, I don't even know where this server is in the timeline. We've been in kunark for 3 years...so where exactly are we claiming to be within the kunark timeline?

second, ok, were pets procing less than players? So now pet proc rate has been increased? Or was it indeed nerfed? My procing swords proc 1-2 times per fight. If players don't proc more than that...

Fuddwin

10-09-2013, 04:54 PM

Alecta posted in "bugs" section regarding this... He/she stated they are following basically what the sword text reads "Ward Summon", meaning it only procs vs summoned creatures... Now if this is classic or not I have no clue... Anyone know?

PS: From what I read and how I understand Alecta's post, it's been totally removed unless attacking summoned mob...

Fuddwin

10-09-2013, 04:54 PM

Nilbog has spoken... =/

https://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1143276&posted=1#post1143276

pharmakos

10-09-2013, 04:54 PM

pets should never have been able to proc Sword of Runes on anything but elemental npcs. it was a mistake on live and it was a mistake here.

Lojik

10-09-2013, 04:56 PM

Would it really be a classic server if we didn't have people whine about class nerfs?

pharmakos

10-09-2013, 04:56 PM

Would it really be a classic server if we didn't have people whine about class nerfs?

this ^^ :)

spoils

10-09-2013, 04:59 PM

just to point something out...it's been brought up a lot that procs for PC's really sucks even with high end dex buffs...

Warriors really suck in groups for holding aggro...and i'm not even talking about snap aggro...talking about longterm.

But i mean I still give credit to devs for doing the best they can with what little they have.

So it definitely makes sense to me that proc rates for pets would kinda suck depending on their innate base dex and whatever other factors are in place.

Glasken

10-09-2013, 05:09 PM

dont think pet xp nerf is classic

been brought up plenty

Pet exp "sharing" is a classic element. Pets eating exp when doing all or more than 50% damage to a creature was not turned off until after Luclin.

Someone around here has a link to all the patch notes from EQLive launch - present.

feanan

10-09-2013, 05:14 PM

Really, the dps increase from the swords at the higher levels meant next to nothing anyway.

I think of it as a good change. Less stuff to summon when you log in, and nobody will ever ask for them again.

Besides which, at the higher levels pets duel wield automatically, so no need for weapons at all anymore. woohoo

Apparently the server time line is now 6 days before velious launch, since they are going by nov 29th 2000 patch notes, and velious
came out dec 5.

feanan

10-09-2013, 05:17 PM

Pet exp "sharing" is a classic element. Pets eating exp when doing all or more than 50% damage to a creature was not turned off until after Luclin.

Someone around here has a link to all the patch notes from EQLive launch - present.

Yes, pet sharing exp was classic. The complete lack of pet agro on this server is not however, and that makes it really hard for pet classes to out damage with any sort of safety. Really just affects mages, since necro's are probably fear kiting anyway, or they could just FD

Gadwen

10-09-2013, 05:23 PM

At the rate of players? Please, Ive been exping for nearly 3 hours today, Sword of Rune proc has yet to trigger once during this time. Its clearly broken and needs to be looked at.

Then get logs and submit a bug report.

Sadre Spinegnawer

10-09-2013, 05:30 PM

nerf bards

quido

10-09-2013, 05:30 PM

at least root pet isn't retarded in pvp any more

Fuddwin

10-09-2013, 05:31 PM

https://www.project1999.org/forums/showthread.php?t=124233

Nilbog has spoken

Fuddwin

10-09-2013, 05:34 PM

Oops... =P

Double post.. Sorry..

Alecta

10-09-2013, 05:34 PM

Well, cept the patch notes don't really do a good job of explaining changes.

Alecta: After November 2000 in the server timeline, pets will have their weapons proc as if they were players.

Sorry for not being more clear on that.

The server has a timeline that it progresses through, basically a series of flags that the GMs can set (Classic -> Kunark -> Velious with lots of smaller intermediate patch steps). These flags turn on and off specific functionality. That way the behavior can mimic Live's evolution if a new server is released, without recoding or changing things.

As for "pets will have their weapons proc as if they were players", if you give a player a sword of runes, the proc won't take hold unless he's hitting a summoned mob. Pets now function the same way.

I will try to keep things clearer in the patch notes.

Yumyums Inmahtumtums

10-09-2013, 06:08 PM

Not that I wanted to get shit on by Swish here but I like to think we're getting some V-word hints dropped on us here.

applesauce25r624

10-09-2013, 06:26 PM

Mmm. Summon me some more of those yummy magi tears

Rhambuk

10-09-2013, 06:31 PM

Long overdue.

and its not nerfing its keeping things in line with classic.

When the server first came out everyone had a mage because you could sit afk for days and let your pet kill everything for exp. When that was fixxed, sorry I mean "nerfed", mages cried and cried and cired.

If its a surprise to you, you never played classic or never took the time to look up patch notes. you can look up patch notes today and see what changes are coming to p99, its not difficult.

Thulack

10-09-2013, 06:34 PM

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/history/patches.html

So you get get all the tears in queue.

Velerin

10-09-2013, 06:58 PM

I'm fine with pets not proccing the swords anymore. It was a bug that was eventually fixed in classic. Even the exp penalty I can live with.

The thing really killing mages that is NOT classic is:

1. crappy pet aggro, they can't aggro anything to tank worth a damn. Mages can't fear, can't root, can't FD, etc. If (by casting about anything offensive) a mage gets aggro, there's no way the pet is taking it back and you die or gate.

Rhambuk

10-09-2013, 07:00 PM

1. crappy pet aggro, they can't aggro anything to tank worth a damn. Mages can't fear, can't root, can't FD, etc. If (by casting about anything offensive) a mage gets aggro, there's no way the pet is taking it back and you die or gate.

Seems classic to me, i only had a mage to 50ish in kunark though.

yeah my pets were useless as tanks, never even bothered getting the earth or air pets only fire for solo and water for group.

Velerin

10-09-2013, 07:05 PM

Not talking about how quickly they die as a tank, there's nothing wrong with that. Their hp/level/ac is just right. Its them not being able to hold any aggro at all which is definitely not classic.

Rhambuk

10-09-2013, 07:07 PM

Not talking about how quickly they die as a tank, there's nothing wrong with that. Their hp/level/ac is just right. Its them not being able to hold any aggro at all which is definitely not classic.

well thats how i remember it, letting my earthpet tank until mob is at 75% and nuke once, if root broke he was on me or the second root broke he was on me.

why i never really got far with mage pets were to unreliable. I hear the epic pet though is super aggro heavy and can hold his on with multiple mobs

Glasken

10-09-2013, 08:30 PM

Yes, pet sharing exp was classic. The complete lack of pet agro on this server is not however, and that makes it really hard for pet classes to out damage with any sort of safety. Really just affects mages, since necro's are probably fear kiting anyway, or they could just FD

My original quote had nothing to do with pet agro. As for doing more than 50% damage reliably and without getting pounded in the face, any mage or necro worth their salt can execute this with ease. Many such tactics abound on the forums.

Minor correction to the above: FD will often cause your pet to take its 50% cut as FD clears away any damage done by you to the target prior to "dying".

NegaStoat

10-10-2013, 12:27 AM

On old retail (Fennin Ro Velious era) my mage at level 24 headed to Sister Isle in Ocean of Tears to blow up some sisters as it was the right thing to do as a dark elf. I used a focused level 24 Water pet, pulled a Sister at Max range with the level 16 Shock of Flame doing 90-something damage, and would let the fire shielded water pet hold aggro while I would have a seat to med for the first part of the fight.

That is blatantly, and quite firmly impossible to do here. I'm not quite sure of what's up, but you have to love-tap a mob on pulling for a tiny bit of damage to attempt to have a seat to med while the pet does its thing at the start of a fight. I have to sit at a greater range away from the fight too if I try it. So no, pet aggro is not "just like I remembered it."

koros

10-10-2013, 12:35 AM

Came to mock the life sucks QQers. But pet aggro IS entirely wrong.

HippoNipple

10-10-2013, 01:16 AM

Im getting kinda tired of seeing every other patch, if not each patch some sorta of pet nerf, spell nerf, of class nerf of mage endlessly.

Mage class is solely a DPS class, Yes the pet is powerful, but mages cant snare, root, port, OR heal...Id like to ask the staff to consider these things before the next patch nerfs the ability to send pets in unless its master is attacked first...Much like the chanter pet currently is.

PLEASE, stop the endless nerfing of mages, its partly why they are poofing from this server.

Be kinda nice if pets like earth pet could really tank mobs

(Mostly noting, Pets no longer able to proc sword of runes anymore)

Lol sword of runes had a proc that only works on summoned mobs. Are you trying to exp off of summoned mobs?

Sword of Runes, at least on red, was nerfed shortly after the server opened because people were leveling like crazy with pets. It was completely overpowered and pets with sword of runes were out dpsing every other class.

Brut

10-10-2013, 07:18 AM

Kinda recall the original pet exp nerf in 2010 being basically a 50% exp penalty for mages all over. Mass rage ensued in forums about it and it was reverted prty fast. Which annoyed the crap outta me at the time since alot of other classes were getting the nerf bat at the same time, but mages got off the hook since they had the highest amount of people crying about it.

Pet agro seems prty awful though, was rolling with fire ele pots on a newbie wiz and at lvl12 nuking a mob anywhere above 55~% of it's health would always make em run for me. If the pet eats half the exp unless you do 51%+ of the damage, how is it even possible for mages to avoid that penalty unless they're tanking every single mob?

webrunner5

10-10-2013, 08:49 AM

I love how so many people say "OH, back in 1999 my pet did this or that, or agro was a lot more Uber". Christ you are lucky to remember if you took a shit 3 days ago lol. :rolleyes:

Estu

10-10-2013, 09:10 AM

If the pet eats half the exp unless you do 51%+ of the damage, how is it even possible for mages to avoid that penalty unless they're tanking every single mob?

It's pretty easy. They wait until the monster is almost dead and fleeing, reclaim their pet (getting mana back depending on how much HP the pet has relative to its max HP), nuke the monster dead with a cheap nuke, and get full EXP on it.

Bohab

10-10-2013, 09:29 AM

hmm my mage seems to be working just fine... l2p?

Snagglepuss

10-10-2013, 09:37 AM

Could someone shine some light on the Sword of Runes proc issue?

When I first started playing here, the Sword of Runes didn't proc on non-summoned mobs, and players complained that it was not classic because on live, (whether a bug or miscoded) they did in fact proc on everything. People wanted to have the "classic experience" so the were changed to proc on everything on live.

So now, they are nerfed (fixed) to work on only summoned mobs. Is this fix in line with the timeline on live of when they got fixed? Or is this fix because they were never supposed to work that way on live and its being corrected on Project 1999 just to fix it?

My only qualm with the argument that, "It was not supposed to work that way on live so it should be fixed here," is that there are many bugs or coding errors on live that would need to be fixed here such as the halfling experience bonus. Humans were intended to receive that, however a coding error gave it to the hobbits. This leads way to many core functions of the game needing to be "fixed" because they were never supposed to on live.

Velerin

10-10-2013, 11:07 AM

Hah, anyone that says pet aggro here is normal has never played a pet class here. It's god awful. But it doesn't matter. This server is awesome, I love mages and will continue to play one. I've learned to adapt to it. It does make them even more 1-dimensional than they already are though. Nuking much at all will get you dead here. Chain petting is still amazingly efficient experience.
And people stop complaining about the swords. It was a bug in live that they recreated here. It was fixed on live which they recreated here.