Serious lack of tanks here

[Morningbreath]

I know the devs...slavishly stick to the original server progression but it's really hard to find a tank these days. Monks, rogues and rangers are everywhere but actual plate tanks don't seem to be around. I did some /who all checks last night and I could almost count the plate classes in a 7-level range on one hand.

The choices for people wanting to play a tank kind of stink. You either play a warrior with nothing but his gear and taunt/kick for abilities or go sk/pal with that GODAWFUL hybrid exp penalty.

Plate armor of any kind is overpriced and overly rare. It takes high smithing to make and in regular gameplay situations you'll not even get to play just because the groups out there have already settled on a monk/ranger to "tank".

What's odd is even back in the day the game was packed to the gills with warriors especially. Finding tanks at low-mid level wasn't a problem either.

[citizen1080]

People are smarter this time around and know warriors are shit till 60 with retarded weapons and gear.

Also...ranger is about least played class on server.

[Laugher]

xp snare ftl:p

[Ephirith]

Monks and (properly geared)rangers do just fine at lower levels, and iksar monks have the same (slightly worse) penalty as SK/Pal anyway. The penalty isn't that bad if you aren't soloing all the time or stacking tons of penalties together.

[Legend]

Monks and (properly geared)rangers do just fine at lower levels, and iksar monks have the same (slightly worse) penalty as SK/Pal anyway. The penalty isn't that bad if you aren't soloing all the time or stacking tons of penalties together.

hmm monk 40%... sk 68% I dunno jeff

[Peekae]

might be a lack of tanks leveling up but i feel there is quite a few 60 warriors idk maybe its just me

[applesauce25r624]

hmm monk 40%... sk 68% I dunno jeff

yes, troll sk = 1.2 x 1.4 = 1.68 (68%)

dark elf sk = 1 x 1.4 = 1.40 (40%)

iksar monk = 1.2 x 1.2 = 1.44 (44%)

human monk = 1 x 1.2 = 1.20 (20%)

[mtb tripper]

where art thout palaydans

[fadetree]

rangers are everywhere

?

[myriverse]

I see more warriors than rangers. In like a year and a half, I've only seen 5-6 rangers... ever.

[Sirken]

I know the devs...slavishly stick to the original server progression but it's really hard to find a tank these days. Monks, rogues and rangers are everywhere but actual plate tanks don't seem to be around. I did some /who all checks last night and I could almost count the plate classes in a 7-level range on one hand.

The choices for people wanting to play a tank kind of stink. You either play a warrior with nothing but his gear and taunt/kick for abilities or go sk/pal with that GODAWFUL hybrid exp penalty.

Plate armor of any kind is overpriced and overly rare. It takes high smithing to make and in regular gameplay situations you'll not even get to play just because the groups out there have already settled on a monk/ranger to "tank".

What's odd is even back in the day the game was packed to the gills with warriors especially. Finding tanks at low-mid level wasn't a problem either.

couple things. firstly, anon (/a) players do not show up in your /w all searches. secondly, as someone else mentioned, people are smarter this time around. a lot of people went warrior back in the day because they were young, and it seemed like a pretty easy and straight forward class.

good luck !

[Kohedron]

Tried a SK. Even at level 3 the xp penalty is brutally obvious. Deleted him

Tried a Warrior. Got him to level 6 but it started to sink in that I wasn't going to be able to fund him properly, at least for a good while.

[Tecmos Deception]

OP's perceptions are off, imo. There are lots of monks and not very many paladins, true. But there are a lot of warriors and a fair number of SKs on the server. Rogues (and to a lesser extent, rangers) feel more common than they actually are because they are almost always looking for a group, whereas almost any other class in the game can spend some time soloing if they want to. But in actuality rangers are the least popular class and rogues are bottom half of popularity or lower.

Tank gear isn't really any more expensive than anyone else's gear. You can get cheap cobalt/deepwater/blood ember armor for a bunch of AC and handy clickies while looking for dex (for warriors only, of course) and ac/hp/stam/resist options for the other slots. Hybrids don't even need good weapons or haste items since they keep aggro so well with spells. And warriors may be reliant on gear, but welcome to the life of a warrior.


I mean, you're really just whining. You think there are tons of rangers and monks on the server and that groups like them as tanks. How can you be complaining that there aren't enough tanks on the server when warriors, shadowknights, paladins, monk, and rangers all do tanking in xp groups? Lol.

[Elerion]

couple things. firstly, anon (/a) players do not show up in your /w all searches. secondly, as someone else mentioned, people are smarter this time around. a lot of people went warrior back in the day because they were young, and it seemed like a pretty easy and straight forward class.

good luck !
Yeah, I'm sure there are tons of /anon plate tanks leveling up. All that whining for buffs and ports gets annoying, and they don't want tells for groups anyway.

Oh wait.

[Buttermilk]

xp penalty too high on hybrids.

[myriverse]

Gear enough to easily get a warrior up to 30-ish is very easy and cheap to come by. It's only after that when it becomes expensive.

[Sirken]

Yeah, I'm sure there are tons of /anon plate tanks leveling up. All that whining for buffs and ports gets annoying, and they don't want tells for groups anyway.

Oh wait.

said the person who can not see through /anon, to the person that actually can see through /anon

http://adventures-in-mormonism.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/facepalm.jpg

[DrKvothe]

When velious comes out, hybrid penalties are gone, right? And iksar warriors will have some armor worth wearing? And warriors will become the more dominant raid tank class?

Each of those is an additional reason to roll a tanky class.

If you can't find someone tanky, blame your monk for not having WR bags or for actually wanting to loot! If he stays at or under 14 stones, you'll be fine!

[Tecmos Deception]

said the person who can not see through /anon, to the person that actually can see through /anon

http://adventures-in-mormonism.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/facepalm.jpg

I thought about giving him the current /who all x vs. /who all count x numbers, but I figured he was a lost cause.

[ncapatina]

There should be less tanks than DPS by a good margin. 6 man groups here bro, this ain't WoW. A full group only has a need for 1 tank but can support up to 4 DPS. If you've got a tank already who would you rather invite, a warrior or a monk/rogue? There are 6 DPS classes and 3 tank classes by my count (rng/war/mnk/nec/mag/wiz vs sk/war/pal). If you do the math and there should be roughly 3-4 DPS per tank that means if you see double the monks and rogues that you do wars and sks then shit seems pretty good to me.

That being said, warrior dps is really good with good gear. Pal/SK dps is always gonna blow but it isn't like 10% of a dps class. Roles are far less strict here which is a huge part of the EQ appeal. An ench for example can outdps anyone if managing a pet well, but can be even more valuable doing no DPS at all. In the right situations shamans can be really good dps or a more valuable healer than a cleric, or help passively with buffs and slows. Monks and rangers can pretty much tank for exp groups all the way through if you do it right. 6 pet classes can make a rapist group, especially with a shaman mixed in, etc etc.

Instead of saying - I can't find a Pal/SK/War so I can't do anything, think outside the box a bit man.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

The class roster at any given time on p99 =

http://i920.photobucket.com/albums/ad47/taker-77/south-park-gay-orgy-pile.gif

This is what happens when you leave an elf simulator on for too long.

[Stinkum]

It seems that way, but Live had what? 2,000-3,000 players per server? Our 500-600 average is small potatoes compared to that.

[fadetree]

DPS - stacks.
Tank - does not stack.

[Trazic]

As a 47 rogue who mostly relies on groups for experience I have not noticed any lack of tanks.

Getting into groups complete with tanks has been fairly easy for me.

[ncapatina]

DPS - stacks.
Tank - does not stack.

I think you managed to say it better in two sentences than I did in 3 paragraphs, bravo.

[kaev]

DPS - stacks.
Tank - does not stack.

Not strictly true. Good things can happen pairing a warrior with either knight class if you're actually crawling a dungeon rather than just sitting in one spot circle-jerking to the spawn timer, or when working a dungeon without bard/enchanter easy-mode crowd-control. But most of the time, especially when minmaxmunchkins are singing the tune, yeah pretty much.

[Wotsirb401]

Having played a tank on live i naturally made a tank here. Warrior is just too fun. but The posts are right, we have people like bards and rangers stepping up to try and tank Fay and other mobs. Warriors just make it super easy and the majority of warriors are leveled up fast by top tier guilds and stored and different raid targets for quick engages and dragon loot!

I tanked a lot of groups as my human monk through 20's-40's

[xCry0x]

It seems that way, but Live had what? 2,000-3,000 players per server? Our 500-600 average is small potatoes compared to that.

2,000-3,000 players on live isn't equal to ~800-900 prime time players where the majority are either logged on as geared level 60s or alts of geared level 60s.

Trak spawns and TMO shits out 5 level 60 ogre warrior dopplegangers, full cobalt, epic 1 hand blade of black dragon eye in the other.

The biggest problem of leveling a tank is the inferiority complex you develop when you end up standing there while the rogue with cof + epic + fungi agro tanks (or similarly equipped monk).

[getsome]

said the person who can not see through /anon, to the person that actually can see through /anon

Anon does not block the ability to see how many people are online.

/who all count works just fine.

[Laugher]

I've had monks, rangers etc. tank for my groups, even in our late 40s in lguk and early 50s, in lguk had a ranger tanking frenzy camp for 2-3 days straight wtih no wiping. In my lower levels on my rogue (about a month ago) I was seeing 1-2 rangers in 2/3 groups I got, and they were tanking fine. They are around but I see them far more frequently at lower levels, perhaps as alts that don't necessarily make the high end (and judging by the gear of many of them I would guess this is the situation.) I don't see as many warriors as knight classes potentially because knight classes hold aggro better pre 37, and yes while I do make comments about xp snare (see earlier in the thread) I will admit some of the best tanks I've had here are not warriors but hybrids (rangers even) or monks.

*edit* a good hybrid imo can compensate for the xp snare by being more effective with stuns, aggro, snares and/or dps than a straight warrior

[mtb tripper]

50 something warrior reporting for duty

[JayN]

Warriors are for Velious and on, when mobs dont insta gib with 32k hp

[webrunner5]

Yeah, I'm sure there are tons of /anon plate tanks leveling up. All that whining for buffs and ports gets annoying, and they don't want tells for groups anyway.

Oh wait.

Throw the guy under the bus if you want to. He has a valid point.

[mtb tripper]

Warriors are for Velious and on, when mobs dont insta gib with 32k hp

warriors aren't that bad in kunark

[Lagaidh]

Well, this tank just got sick of the community, or the common expectations. You get into a group and folks want to go balls to the wall for hours.

I burn out fast. EQ was slower in Live with this content. I wasn't in groups that commonly ran at maximum efficiency like now.

I can't speak for other tanks, but the groups are too efficient for how I view EQ now. I'd rather fart around with a group like the old days. They're just so purpose driven anymore. I did it all in Live. This content is for slower play.

There is a nicely geared, unguilded L54 paladin logged out in sol a...

Anybody want to not take it all so seriously some time?

[ncapatina]

Well, this tank just got sick of the community, or the common expectations. You get into a group and folks want to go balls to the wall for hours.

I burn out fast. EQ was slower in Live with this content. I wasn't in groups that commonly ran at maximum efficiency like now.

I can't speak for other tanks, but the groups are too efficient for how I view EQ now. I'd rather fart around with a group like the old days. They're just so purpose driven anymore. I did it all in Live. This content is for slower play.

There is a nicely geared, unguilded L54 paladin logged out in sol a...

Anybody want to not take it all so seriously some time?

I just find this attitude a bit odd. It's not like grinding experience in this game is hard, but leveling up takes a lot of time. While I wouldn't want my group to be teetering on the brink of destruction with the speed of pulls, why wouldn't you want to be efficient?

Furthermore why would you choose a group dependent class if you want to screw around?

[Lagaidh]

I just find this attitude a bit odd. It's not like grinding experience in this game is hard, but leveling up takes a lot of time. While I wouldn't want my group to be teetering on the brink of destruction with the speed of pulls, why wouldn't you want to be efficient?

Furthermore why would you choose a group dependent class if you want to screw around?

To the last question: I am a dwarf paladin. I can get by in Norrath. (I'm a tunnel rat too, so gear comes my way, just very, very slowly. I've been here over 3 years. I am geared.)

To the other part, I failed to express my view clearly. I don't like being in a group where it's so efficient that there's no time to socialize, joke around and enjoy company. I do, however, enjoy progressing. I enjoy the middle ground of advancement while "smelling roses".

From my seat, and my seat alone, I say that the groups I do get into have been min-maxxing. I see the allure of that style of play. Like I stated before, I did a lot in Live. I used to be a power gamer.

Just not for me anymore.

Trust me. A paladin in Norrath has time to smell the roses.

[Lagaidh]

Oh! I see... "hard"

I agree. There isn't much in classic that is hard in the sense of difficulty (just tedium). But if I am doing my job as a paladin in a group that is min-maxxing, then I'm not going to be typing social banter as I'd like =)

Last item: Paladins are viewed as group dependent only if you're thinking in terms of efficiency. I can solo a pally. My wife plays a druid and we have mostly leveled as a duo (haven't played together in forever though.) I truly do love the EQ interpretation of a paladin... so that's what I play. I don't see it in terms of black and white ability/liability.

[ncapatina]

I can definitely respect that viewpoint. It's the same reason my first alt will be a ranger despite them being debatably the worst class in a pre-luclin world. I just love the "nature warrior" type implementation rather than a tree hugging bow user they are in most games, or worse - a pet class.

I guess I've never run into that issue...if a group is a good one you're usually waiting on pulls at some point after massacring everything you can find. I can't think of too many spots where you could be a solid DPS group with good tanking/healing and pull every 10 seconds indefinitely, but I'm only into my 30s at this point and people are just better at playing video games than they were 13 years ago so maybe I'm wrong.

[Lagaidh]

I can definitely respect that viewpoint. It's the same reason my first alt will be a ranger despite them being debatably the worst class in a pre-luclin world. I just love the "nature warrior" type implementation rather than a tree hugging bow user they are in most games, or worse - a pet class.

I guess I've never run into that issue...if a group is a good one you're usually waiting on pulls at some point after massacring everything you can find. I can't think of too many spots where you could be a solid DPS group with good tanking/healing and pull every 10 seconds indefinitely, but I'm only into my 30s at this point and people are just better at playing video games than they were 13 years ago so maybe I'm wrong.

Now at your level, that was the sweet spot on this server for us. We had a ball in the Karanas and met up with many a stranger and laughed.

[Swish]

The people moaning about the lack of tanks are probably the same people who are refusing to take a SK/paladin in that's sitting at the zoneline for over an hour LFG.

I had a troll SK to 43 here, then it got real quiet... LFG for hours, sent tells to people in COM/solb/Lower Guk etc. No dice.

The server has too many min/maxers...that's the problem with not enough tanks, and every man and his dog having a cleric main or alt. I'm part of the problem. Quit the tank and rolled a cleric to stop having so much lfg downtime. Cleric now the main.

[kaev]

The people moaning about the lack of tanks are probably the same people who are refusing to take a SK/paladin in that's sitting at the zoneline for over an hour LFG.


Aye, they're surprised that after leaving 3 tanks LFG for an extended period of time ("need DPS") now there're none available.

No groups for me ("we have a tank, need more dps")? fine I'll solo an alt. Want my alt's name? sorry nope, I'm not your servant to come running at your beck and call.

[Elerion]

Yeah, I'm sure there are tons of /anon plate tanks leveling up. All that whining for buffs and ports gets annoying, and they don't want tells for groups anyway.

Oh wait.

said the person who can not see through /anon, to the person that actually can see through /anon

http://adventures-in-mormonism.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/facepalm.jpg
Count looks through anon, doesn't it?

So, let's check. 573 players online, of which 205 between 20 and 50.

/who all warrior 20 50? 10 guys
/who all warrior 20 50 count? 12 guys

/who all shad 20 50? 8 guys
/who all shad 20 50 count? 10 guys

/who all paladin 20 50? 5 guys
/who all paladin 20 50 count? 5 guys

So out of 27 plate tanks online between level 20 and 50, 4 of them were anon. That's 15% of them.

Some other classes in the same level range?
Clerics? 11 visible, 17 total. 35% anon.
Druids? 17 visible, 31 total. 45% anon.
Wizards? 8 visible, 12 total. 33% anon.
Shamans? 15 visible, 21 total. 29% anon.

When you get into prime raiding levels, you'll obviously see a lot of anon tanks. But while leveling up, my point stands up to scrutiny.

[Gadwen]

The people moaning about the lack of tanks are probably the same people who are refusing to take a SK/paladin in that's sitting at the zoneline for over an hour LFG.

I had a troll SK to 43 here, then it got real quiet... LFG for hours, sent tells to people in COM/solb/Lower Guk etc. No dice.

The server has too many min/maxers...that's the problem with not enough tanks, and every man and his dog having a cleric main or alt. I'm part of the problem. Quit the tank and rolled a cleric to stop having so much lfg downtime. Cleric now the main.

People make way too big of a deal about the exp penalty. the SK/Pally tank is going to get you more experience than sitting around without one that is for sure, not to mention that their ability to hold aggro against almost anything helps enormously in the long run with more kills, less deaths and if played well less downtime.

[webrunner5]

I guess I've never run into that issue...if a group is a good one you're usually waiting on pulls at some point after massacring everything you can find. I can't think of too many spots where you could be a solid DPS group with good tanking/healing and pull every 10 seconds indefinitely, but I'm only into my 30s at this point and people are just better at playing video games than they were 13 years ago so maybe I'm wrong.

Wait to you get to KC. If you are a puller you had better be pulling you ass off all the time or you are out. It IS non stop killing in there. CoM is no better either. It is a whole new game high level. You are lucky to have time to take a piss.

[Morningbreath]

The people moaning about the lack of tanks are probably the same people who are refusing to take a SK/paladin in that's sitting at the zoneline for over an hour LFG.

I had a troll SK to 43 here, then it got real quiet... LFG for hours, sent tells to people in COM/solb/Lower Guk etc. No dice.

Something the P99 devs don't seem to be accounting for is the player knowledge this time around. Players are using strats and have years of parsing to work around some of the old conventions in classic EQ that they hadn't figured out in the original Kunark timeline.

That's evident with all the monk tanking going on. I see alot more charming in groups than I ever saw on Live during this era. There were no swarm-kiting bards. Newbie rogues carrying epics. Players eventually figured out that +HP gear and high DPS could lessen or even eliminate the need for plate tanks and that understanding is in full force today on P99.

Back in the day it got to where healers wouldn't move a muscle until a plate tank showed up. You didn't monkey around with pets or DPS melee as tanks. You just sat there until a real tank got there.

The P99 devs can do whatever they want obviously but most people probably aren't aware that spider silk stacking didn't happen until after Luclin launched. And yet silk stacking is in the game right now! That's just one example of the patch timeline being "broken" by the P99 devs and it's high time they remove the hybrid exp penalty as well.

Do it already!

[SamwiseRed]

pets > tanks

[DrKvothe]

The P99 devs can do whatever they want obviously but most people probably aren't aware that spider silk stacking didn't happen until after Luclin launched. And yet silk stacking is in the game right now! That's just one example of the patch timeline being "broken" by the P99 devs and it's high time they remove the hybrid exp penalty as well.

Do it already!

I'm not sure you should be equating these things. Spider silk isn't classic so let's abolish hybrid penalties!

I'm also not sure that you're wrong. Exp penalty is major reason not to roll hybrid tanks.

[Morningbreath]

I'm not sure you should be equating these things. Spider silk isn't classic so let's abolish hybrid penalties!

I'm also not sure that you're wrong. Exp penalty is major reason not to roll hybrid tanks.

The P99 devs' logic is inconsistent. If you're going to cherrypick and include patches like spider silk stacking or being able to buy full stacks of items from merchants when those changes didn't go in until AFTER Luclin, how can you justify keeping hybrid exp penalties just because they were removed during the Velious era?

The hybrid exp penalty was removed in January 2001, less than 2 years after the game launched and during EQ's "golden" era.

At that time, Dark Age of Camelot was in production and the developers had already announced that there would be no hybrid exp penalties in that game. The EQ Live team magically came to their senses and followed suit almost immediately.

[Barahir]

Count looks through anon, doesn't it?

So, let's check. 573 players online, of which 205 between 20 and 50.

/who all warrior 20 50? 10 guys
/who all warrior 20 50 count? 12 guys

/who all shad 20 50? 8 guys
/who all shad 20 50 count? 10 guys

/who all paladin 20 50? 5 guys
/who all paladin 20 50 count? 5 guys

So out of 27 plate tanks online between level 20 and 50, 4 of them were anon. That's 15% of them.

Some other classes in the same level range?
Clerics? 11 visible, 17 total. 35% anon.
Druids? 17 visible, 31 total. 45% anon.
Wizards? 8 visible, 12 total. 33% anon.
Shamans? 15 visible, 21 total. 29% anon.

When you get into prime raiding levels, you'll obviously see a lot of anon tanks. But while leveling up, my point stands up to scrutiny.


Why didn't you list the rangers that were everywhere?

[kaev]

Oh man, all the poor silks lost to ultra low skill tailors having to make swatches/threads in order to stack 'em. The shit (and I do mean shit, lol, suppressing bad memories since 1999!!) you don't recall until somebody has to go and remind you about it.

[Elerion]

Why didn't you list the rangers that were everywhere?
I never claimed there were rangers everywhere, you may be confusing me with OP. I was initially replying to Sirken's comment that there were more leveling tanks than OP was aware of due to him not seeing anon tanks. I just called Sirken out on that, because why the fuck would a leveling tank go anon unless he is in a permanent group or getting PLed?

I'm not surprised there are few plate tanks, considering pallies and SKs will slow the group's XP if it already has a tank, untwinked warriors have aggro issues, and monks can tank well enough for most purposes anyway. It's just not a very plate tank friendly leveling environment.

[Clark]

xp penalty too high on hybrids.

[Lagaidh]

Wait to you get to KC.

Dude, you knew exactly the zone that I had in mind for my opinions. Hehe. It scars a man.

[Barahir]

I never claimed there were rangers everywhere, you may be confusing me with OP. I was initially replying to Sirken's comment that there were more leveling tanks than OP was aware of due to him not seeing anon tanks. I just called Sirken out on that, because why the fuck would a leveling tank go anon unless he is in a permanent group or getting PLed?

I'm not surprised there are few plate tanks, considering pallies and SKs will slow the group's XP if it already has a tank, untwinked warriors have aggro issues, and monks can tank well enough for most purposes anyway. It's just not a very plate tank friendly leveling environment.

I did get you confused with the OP, my main take away from this is still that there are rangers everywhere.

[Silent]

Never had a problem tanking in any exp group on my iksar monk with fungi, Seb, Solb, Chardok etc all just fine with a cleric, even a lazy one at that. Between mend and stonestance you can make due. As for tanks, It is probably what someone said a page back about ignoring the hybrid plate classes because of the penalties. Paladins and shadowknights are great for groups, SK can take instant aggro off anyone. Paladins can stun root heal and basically cheal(loh) every so often.

Obviously the red servers exp bonus is higher then blue, But that doesn't mean we level super fast, it still takes a lot of time and effort. The thing about the red server, We don't discriminate on hybrids. Sit around for 3-4 hours looking for a warrior getting no exp while that SK/Paladin looks for group. I don't play on blue, But when I log in my friends enchanter to chat up friends occasionally I constantly get messages for every 50+ zone in the game.

[skipdog]

Honestly, I've had many monks be my group's tank almost as often as a plate wearing class. Seems to work fine.

I still don't think there are as many warriors as one would imagine, but I think that comes down to the class being so 'vanilla' i.e. few abilities.

I do think that people are a bit too choosy when it comes to searching out classes for groups. You simply don't need a 'plate tank, cleric and enchanter' in every group yet tons of people think all 3 of those classes are necessary for a group to function at all. People really underestimate how effective 'non-standard' group compositions can really be.