Origin of 'canni' mechanic?

[fadetree]

A lot of the classes, races, and class features in EQ came from more-or-less obvious precursors in myth, literature or tabletop games. I've been wondering, though, about the 'cannibalism' mechanic on shamans...does anyone have any information about where that idea came from?

[sox7d]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagellation#Ecstatics_and_Mystics

Duh.

[loramin]

Sometimes developers make up game mechanics to match the story, and sometimes they make up story to match game mechanics. I'd guess that the cannabalise mechanic of "let's let Shaman turn their life in to mana" came first, and then they looked around for something vaguely Shamanic to call it (and found "cannabalize").

[fadetree]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagellation#Ecstatics_and_Mystics

Duh.

The terms 'cannibalism' or 'shaman' do not even appear in that wiki page, but thanks for trying.

[Droog007]

I've always thought it was poorly named... it's more of a sacrifice of vitality in exchange for spiritual favor. That's not a novel concept...

Move to make un-classic change in renaming "Cannibalize" spells to "Flesh to Spirit"

[Thulack]

The terms 'cannibalism' or 'shaman' do not even appear in that wiki page, but thanks for trying.

From that link:

Because practices such as starvation, sleep denial and flagellation are known to induce altered states, flagellation may be used by religious ecstatics and mystics as part of ritualistic practices or ceremonies to achieve unusual states of mind

Going on the basis that the spell canni is "starving" yourself of health to regen mana. the effect and the word cannibalism arent really tied together. Its moreso your eatting yourself away"Cannibalizing"(losing health) to gain enlightenment (mana).

[Atmas]

Along the lines of Thulack's description I can see the act of inflicting damage to ones self in exchange for enhanced ability, in this case with mana, as related to cani.

In many mythos and narratives something is gained through sacrifice. Take the biblical story of Adam and Eve or any one of the many stories throughout history and fantasy in which blood is used as a reagent for a spell.

[blanks77]

In India, Aghori Sadhus which are similar to shamans eat dead bodies from the funeral pyres. They are a wandering monk who embraces the darker side of life to go beyond duality.

[fadetree]

Along the lines of Thulack's description I can see the act of inflicting damage to ones self in exchange for enhanced ability, in this case with mana, as related to cani.

In many mythos and narratives something is gained through sacrifice. Take the biblical story of Adam and Eve or any one of the many stories throughout history and fantasy in which blood is used as a reagent for a spell.

Sure, I get that too, the general idea. But I specifically was wondering if there were any game or popular literature precedents to the idea of self-cannibalism and shamans as a game class.

For instance, D&D apparently has shamans, but no mention of any cannibalistic tendencies.

[Vohl]

EQ was based largely on DikuMUD. I'd suggest checking into gameplay of that particular thing to see if it had a cannibalize mechanism.

[fadetree]

EQ was based largely on DikuMUD. I'd suggest checking into gameplay of that particular thing to see if it had a cannibalize mechanism.

Dikumud? Wow, hadn't heard that one before...

It seems like they were *accused* of ripping off Dikumud, but :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DikuMUD#EverQuest_controversy
http://www.dikumud.com/everquest.aspx

So, doesn't seem to hold much water to me, lots of different games could have accused them in a similar fashion. Also, a very quick scan of Dikumud sites and source code doesn't turn up any self-cannibilism references, although there was a shaman class.

[Raavak]

I think they were "inspired" by it but didn't steal it. A couple of things seemed to come directly from Diku, one being the need for food and drink, and another was the autosave that used to happen every 10 minutes or so (P99 and Live no longer have it).

There were lots of Dikumuds. As part of the basic Diku I don't recall any cannibalize type effect, but there may have been on some mud somewhere.

[fadetree]

Interesting. Did DikuMud originate the idea of needing food and drink? I guess somebody had to, but I guess I thought it would have been from earlier games.

[Raavak]

Dikus go pretty far back, as far as internet games go. Maybe to almost the origin of the internet. Before that, though, you always had AD&D, and most my Dungeon Masters made me mark off my food and water :P

On Diku you movement rate would slow considerably if you were hungry or thirsty. In EQ the penalty is not quite as severe.

On another note, LPMuds didn't have a requirement of food and water, but food and alcohol were used as small heals. You used to slam them when you needed a heal. Maybe this is the origin of the EQ "You are too full to eat any more" as well.

[Retti_]

Everquest

[myriverse]

Yeah, D&D doesn't have mana, so you're not likely to find an analog. Later editions had canni-like spells. For instance, there was a Paladin spell from one of the supplements that allowed you to sacrifice hit points for more damage. But this was after EQ.

In VtM, you could spend blood points for things.

[zanderklocke]

Didn't you guys ever play old beat 'em ups like Final Fight or Streets of Rage in the arcade or on your Sega Genesis or Super Nintendo. Every time you used your special move, it drained your health somewhat.

Okay...maybe this is a stretch.