Rangers, decent tanks?

[VincentVolaju]

So everyone is always trashing Rangers saying they are pretty much bad at anything, but I was wondering how much of that is actually true? For example I have heard there DPS is terrible and they cant tank. However, if Flame Lick works the same as Disease Cloud, what makes an SK, Pally or War a better tank then Ranger? In a group you usually always have a healer, especially on this server so as far as tanking goes I would think as long as you can hold aggro without any problems then thats all you need for a tank, yeah?

[Jenni D]

AC is poor compared to begin with.

[Bubbles]

http://www.bolgernow.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/pooh-owned.jpg

Pooh is playing the part of the tanking Ranger in the above image.

[Kambris]

So uhh... what use DOES a ranger have in a group?







Anyone?











Anyone?














.....anyone?

[Tseng]

Sure, a twinked out Ranger could probably tank a significant way towards 50, the closer you get, the worse and worse you get.

[Chicka]

I had no issue healing rangers when they tanked. In fact they generally dual wield root proccing swords (that are cheap as they are ranger only and easy to get) when they do - that makes aggro a non-issue. After that its just keeping them up, which I didn't find in the slightest bit difficult in solb.

Also, I find min-maxing groups (which are got ridiculous in Kunark) to be counter productive. Those groups who hold out for the best possible combo as deigned by the min-maxing populace (TM) generally get less exp than people who learn how to make groups work no matter what the make up. So stop worrying about whether a ranger is great dps or a great tank, they are more than either anyway.

[tinidas]

Hmm, what is this root proccing sword?

[Bubbles]

Hmm, what is this root proccing sword?

It's the best mage pet weapon, like.. ever.

[Chicka]

Hmm, what is this root proccing sword?

Ebony bladed sword

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=282

Pretty easy to get, and people are generally disappointed when it drops, unless they are a ranger.

[Jify]

Meh. My ranger makes a decent tank if a group lacks one. Tanked Unrest, upper guk, etc. At higher lvls it gets worse, unless you're Zilo.

[tinidas]

Ah thanks, still a ways away from that one :)

[Chicka]

Ah thanks, still a ways away from that one :)

Did I mention it sells for cheap?

[eqholmes]

People just like to jump on the bandwagon and say things like ranger gate and crap like that. Truth be told a decent geared ranger is a great tank, I tanked 98% of the time in all the groups I was in from 1-50. Truth be told yes once at 50 and doing things more like FG's and things that hit over 140 a sk/pal/war are the better choices for a true tank. Anyone I leveled my ranger up with I'm sure would vouch for how good a ranger tank can be for leveling.

Yes, in Kunark I don’t plan to tank much if at all, but I can easily enough off tank to CC things with root, and yes things like root make us awesome to level up with. Ranger’s dps is also a lot better than most people think.

Holmes 50 Nerco DA
Gretzky 50 Ranger DA

[YendorLootmonkey]

With the right gear and buffs, rangers can tank. Do they take a bit more mana to keep up due to AC/mitigation issues? Yes. Do they make up for it by utilizing flame lick and dual root-proc swords to keep the mobs OFF the rest of the group? Do they make up for it by being able to harmony pull outdoors dungeons like Mistmoore and Unrest (and later Karnor's Castle and City of Mist, etc?) Do they make up for it by being able to ghetto-mez (root) adds if you don't have a chanter/bard? Do they make up for it with all of their utility spells, being able to snare runners, etc? I don't know, that's up to the members of the group.

I would agree our utility is slightly diminished in indoors dungeons.

Can other classes fulfill all of these needs in a group as needed when the situation changes? Yes. A druid is the closest, but they ain't tanking. Nor is your druid going to be out pulling, most likely. And rangers have farther range on track.

A well-played ranger is a significant addition to any group. At least, I would hope any group I've been in has appreciated my contributions. I've tanked in groups and it hasn't been that bad. Nukers are pretty much able to nuke with impunity. And if things get rough, I cast root (or wait til my swords proc it) and back off and let the mage pet tank. :) Yes, I would prefer a plate class... but when they're hard to come by, a properly-equipped/buffed ranger can do just fine, and can hold aggro the same as a Pally/SK.

Rangers that just sit there and swing swords at a mob and don't use all of their tools... yeah, probably not ideal to have in your group because they're not playing to their potential. For instance, I don't respect fellow rangers who don't pull for their groups (unless you're in a FD-required-to-split situation, of course). I don't respect rangers who aren't rootparking adds (especially on incoming if they pulled them) if there's no chanter/bard in the group (son't make the healer use their mana to rootpark your shit!).

But no, rangers aren't as bad as the propaganda makes them out to be. I played one to 65/200AA on Live, and if that were true, I would not have re-rolled one this time around knowing what I was getting into. Unless I'm functionally retarded, which is debatable.

[Bubbles]

We all poke fun, but believe me, this isn't a server of casual players. We *know* what Rangers and Paladins and ShadowKnights and Bards bring to the table. We *know* that there is a good 90% chance the person behind the toon is an EQ vet who's going to be a valuable member of the party.

But we also know the lag behind... I swear half the reason rogues and warriors get played so frequently is that they get DW/DA earlier than the rest, and those first 17 levels (Ranger) to 20 levels (DA for SK/PAL) are hell and you don't bring as much to the table for dps until then. That's where a lot of the silly fun-poking comes from.

And lets be honest, it's a bit more likely than the 90% guess i threw out earlier that the poor level 14 ranger LFG in Unrest probably isnt a uber talented EQ vet and never saw the "14 ranger LFG" curse coming. ;)

[guineapig]

My bard has tanked in Lower Guk and SolB now with no problems. If my bard can tank in these zones (not uber gear), so can a ranger.

[Bubbles]

My bard has tanked in Lower Guk and SolB now with no problems. If my bard can tank in these zones (not uber gear), so can a ranger.

Plate vs. Chain. Although I'm sure a ranger is typically going to have more avoidance and defensive caps than bards, it's hard to make up for plate vs. chain.

[Danth]

"Plate vs. Chain"

Until you reach planar gear, plate classes don't gain much AC over what chain classes can access. Chain quest armor (ivy etched) has the same AC as fine plate and better than bronze. Many slots offer high AC options anyone can wear (azure sleeves, etc). Most chain users have bad AC because they don't focus on it as a stat, favoring offensive stats instead.

In short, Rangers can tank adequately for 1-50. So can Bards and Monks, various caster pets, and correctly-geared Clerics and Shamans. True 'tanks' aren't all that necessary at this stage of the game. Once Kunark and Velious roll around and NPC damage increases faster than player defenses, that becomes another matter.

Veteran players, particularly those who spend too much time raiding, sometimes develop blinders and start to think, "since class X cannot do this in raids, he must not be able to do it, ever." There always has been a sort of trickle-down effect across all MMORPG's where a class's performance at the high end influences the player base's perception of its capabilities at all level ranges. As such, 'myth debunking' threads like this serve a useful purpose.

Danth

[Waedawen]

People just like to jump on the bandwagon and say things like ranger gate and crap like that. Truth be told a decent geared ranger is a great tank, I tanked 98% of the time in all the groups I was in from 1-50. Truth be told yes once at 50 and doing things more like FG's and things that hit over 140 a sk/pal/war are the better choices for a true tank. Anyone I leveled my ranger up with I'm sure would vouch for how good a ranger tank can be for leveling.

Yes, in Kunark I don’t plan to tank much if at all, but I can easily enough off tank to CC things with root, and yes things like root make us awesome to level up with. Ranger’s dps is also a lot better than most people think.

Holmes 50 Nerco DA
Gretzky 50 Ranger DA

I was waiting for Gretzky to post.

This guy is a fucking monster, my favorite tank 1-50

[truzek]

Lol you people are out of your fucking minds if you think rangers or even bards can be efficient tanks. Have you ever played a ranger? They drop like flys even at very low levels, its pathetic. Warriors, paladins and SKs have alot more hp and much better damage mitigation skills.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Lol you people are out of your fucking minds if you think rangers or even bards can be efficient tanks. Have you ever played a ranger? They drop like flys even at very low levels, its pathetic. Warriors, paladins and SKs have alot more hp and much better damage mitigation skills.

Sir, speaking as a ranger, I ask you the same question.

If you're a min-maxer (the server is full of them), then no, a ranger isn't ever going to tank good enough for you. Can a ranger hold aggro right alongside a SK and take hits if they have to? Yes. Will it tax the healers mana more? Yes. Are they efficient tanks compared to plate classes? No. If you can't find a War/SK/Pally will a ranger or bard do in a pinch? Yes.

[tj218]

As a Rogue I enjoy duo'ing with a ranger friend. He can tank, which allows me to backstab and then he can heal as well. Probably not the most efficient duo'ing but not bad.

[eqholmes]

I was waiting for Gretzky to post.

This guy is a fucking monster, my favorite tank 1-50

LOL, thanks Petros, you da man, got to get you some GEBS, efeeti either tonight or tomorrow for sure.

As for truzek he really must have never grouped with a decent ranger, or he is just dumb and jumped on the bandwagon without any real knowledge. In classic a ranger can tank fine except as I said in planes/fg's, stuff that hits 150+. Kunark is a different storey. It starts to become a lot more apparent that rangers are not true tanks, but we aren’t there yet.

[darkblade717]

So uhh... what use DOES a ranger have in a group?







Anyone?











Anyone?














.....anyone?

Distracting mobs while the Cleric zones out because you tried using a Ranger to tank like a fucking idiot.

[Itchybottom]

A ranger without weaponshield disc (2003 I think?) is going to die tanking anything but classic encounters. For typical camp the item pickup groups, it's a non-issue. A ranger can tank just fine in that situation. But you're never going to put a ranger in this era, up against Innoruuk as your primary tank; it's probably trivial for Terror/Fright/Dread/Dracolich though. I highly doubt you'll see rangers in Kunark tanking Overking Bathesid or Venril Sathir until they've maximum geared the content. I remember rangers on live soloing some mean crap when trueshot disc went in, but I never really saw a ranger pre-Luclin be able to tank anything that hit hard enough to require a dedicated tank (VT gear changed things a little, probably to mitigate how hard Luclin mobs hit)

[Sparkin]

A ranger without weaponshield disc (2003 I think?) is going to die tanking anything but classic encounters. For typical camp the item pickup groups, it's a non-issue. A ranger can tank just fine in that situation. But you're never going to put a ranger in this era, up against Innoruuk as your primary tank; it's probably trivial for Terror/Fright/Dread/Dracolich though. I highly doubt you'll see rangers in Kunark tanking Overking Bathesid or Venril Sathir until they've maximum geared the content. I remember rangers on live soloing some mean crap when trueshot disc went in, but I never really saw a ranger pre-Luclin be able to tank anything that hit hard enough to require a dedicated tank (VT gear changed things a little, probably to mitigate how hard Luclin mobs hit)

Nobody here is saying they can tank raid mobs, everybody is talking about group shit.

Weaponshield (all hybrid 55/60 discs) went in with Velious IIRC, so that was the end of 00 / beginning of 01.

[Sparkin]

Also, ranger tanking in Kunark shouldn't be quite as bad here as people remember it on live. The low ranger defensive cap was the main reason why rangers got their asses handed to them so badly in Kunark. It was ridiciulously low; I don't remember exactly but somewhere around 200 when plate tanks had caps of 240-250. Sometime in Velious the ranger cap was raised to 230ish, and it made a noticeable difference. That will be the cap here from the day Kunark opens, so it shouldn't be quite as bad.

[guineapig]

Lol you people are out of your fucking minds if you think rangers or even bards can be efficient tanks. Have you ever played a ranger? They drop like flys even at very low levels, its pathetic. Warriors, paladins and SKs have alot more hp and much better damage mitigation skills.

Ask any of the people I have grouped with on my Bard. Kobolds are quite easy to tank in Solb and the lower level range of Lguk is eaquily easy.

As far as plate versus chain goes, I'm fairly certain any twinked out ranger on this server has higher AC than my bard currently as I have not bothered farming / buying gear for that character. Also, as somebody else mentioned the AC difference between plate and chain in classic is not much at all.

Anyway, I am speaking from experience as a bard and I'm willing to bet that rangers do just fine in the areas I previously mentioned.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

I spat my drink all over my screen when I read the title, lol sorry moving on.

[Daywolf]

So uhh... what use DOES a ranger have in a group?


Played ranger for years on live, and yes the class is no tank. However, great class for pulling and protecting the casters while adding to DPS. Great class... that few understand how to utilize.

[Mistpaw]

I remember many times seeing a tank drop and me or another Ranger stepping in to OT and CC while the Cleric zoned. Usually followed by the "Ranja down" comments of a few of the witty caster types who zoned as soon as the tank went *splat*.
Or, when the caster types were caught napping, it was followed by them begging us to pull their dead asses to the zone in ;)

Ranger are multi-functional and can be played in quite a few ways. I don't hate on a Ranger for wanting to do mainly DPS with bow or swords. With decent gear, at certain levels of the game our DPS and aggro handling abilities make us able to play aggro like a fiddle. In a well run group I could swap aggro with the tank any time I needed to as long as we communicated intent.

Are Rangers good end game tanks? We weren't designed to be end game tanks. We weren't intended to be end game tanks. We are a utility class and you as a group or raid leader get out of us just how well you utilize us.

I've had someone tell me I couldn't pull mobs for a group that I've solo'd before because I don't have FD. I quite soon left that group to put out the cat who had spontaneously combusted after the 2nd party wipe due to the monk being a bit "over exhuberant."

[Humerox]

Sir, speaking as a ranger, I ask you the same question.

If you're a min-maxer (the server is full of them), then no, a ranger isn't ever going to tank good enough for you. Can a ranger hold aggro right alongside a SK and take hits if they have to? Yes. Will it tax the healers mana more? Yes. Are they efficient tanks compared to plate classes? No. If you can't find a War/SK/Pally will a ranger or bard do in a pinch? Yes.

Had a fine group tonight on an alt, lasted for hours. At one point we had a monk tank. At another we had a bard tank. If Rangers had been available for tanking when we were looking, they would have done just fine. Only death I saw in several hours was a bard that would have lived had the secondary heals gotten to him fast enough.

Can Rangers tank? Sure they can.

[Reiker]

We *know* that there is a good 90% chance the person behind the toon is an EQ vet who's going to be a valuable member of the party.

Lol, have you grouped on P99 lately?

[Reiker]

Distracting mobs while the Cleric zones out because you tried using a Ranger to tank like a fucking idiot.

This is an awesome post why is this darkblade717 bro banned.

[Bubbles]

Lol, have you grouped on P99 lately?

well, necro/druid or necro/mage or necro/necro..

I didnt group melees on the cleric, lord knows i wouldn't start now ;)

Your point is indeed valid.

[stormlord]

Lol you people are out of your fucking minds if you think rangers or even bards can be efficient tanks. Have you ever played a ranger? They drop like flys even at very low levels, its pathetic. Warriors, paladins and SKs have alot more hp and much better damage mitigation skills.

Go back to playing your warrior/sk/paladin, numnutz.

I konw that your feel incredibly jealous.

[truzek]

Sir, speaking as a ranger, I ask you the same question.

If you're a min-maxer (the server is full of them), then no, a ranger isn't ever going to tank good enough for you. Can a ranger hold aggro right alongside a SK and take hits if they have to? Yes. Will it tax the healers mana more? Yes. Are they efficient tanks compared to plate classes? No. If you can't find a War/SK/Pally will a ranger or bard do in a pinch? Yes.

Yes I have played a ranger, I actually have a ranger alt but I also have a warrior main and a paladin alt and let me tell you again compared to them tanking as a ranger is pathetic.



As for truzek he really must have never grouped with a decent ranger, or he is just dumb and jumped on the bandwagon without any real knowledge.

Read my answer above. And here is the sound of your ranger tanking: SPLAT!

[truzek]

Go back to playing your warrior/sk/paladin, numnutz.

I konw that your feel incredibly jealous.

Sure I am jealous of only being able to wear cloth and having the same ac and hp as a pixie lmao.

[guineapig]

Yes I have played a ranger, I actually have a ranger alt but I also have a warrior main and a paladin alt and let me tell you again compared to them tanking as a ranger is pathetic.


Wow, comparing a ranger to a warrior.... brilliant.

Now how about comparing a ranger to a bard? Are you telling me that your ranger alt would not be able to tank for an exp group in Guk or Sola?

And if not, what is your ranger wearing AC wise?

[truzek]

Wow, comparing a ranger to a warrior.... brilliant.

Not only a warrior but also paladins and sks (a.k.a. real tanks) isn't that the topic here? Rangers who think they can tank?


Now how about comparing a ranger to a bard?
Why compare a ranger to a bard? One is a dps class another is a utility class. I would compare a ranger to a rogue and a bard to a chanter, that would be a more accurate comparison.


Are you telling me that your ranger alt would not be able to tank for an exp group in Guk or Sola?

Ranger alt is wearing full ivy and Ebony Bladed Swords and no I wouldn't let him tank for a group because he is a mana sponge.

[guineapig]

Fair enough, to each his own.

I'm just saying that when I'm in exp groups we are not going to just call it a night if we don't happen to get a warrior/sk/paladin. And we have done fine every time. I have tanked as a bard and have been in groups with rangers and monks tanking. Never had an issue. (Were not talking Planes, Fire Giants or shit like that obviously.)

[Dantes]

From my perspective, having a ranger in the group rocks. But when I'm in a group, we have a tank. Root proc is great, especially when fighting yellow or red mobs but it still manages to land - works better than taunt for sure. All I have to do is stand closest to the mob. Rangers can save your ass when the shit hits the fan too, like when you are running out of Unrest and the Knight lands clinging darkness on you... Then the ranger snags aggro so you can make it to the zone line. Thanks Yendor!

[Aadill]

Sup I'm a ranger and I've tanked Inny for 30 seconds before dying to the DT. I've tanked CT and all of his pets and I've tanked Draco when everyone else got feared. I only died after Inny DTd me. This of course works due to CH rotations $$$.

I tanked for the majority of my groups from level 15 to 50. Never once was my group horribly oom and incapable of clearing and holding a camp. No, rangers aren't the best tanks, but a lot of you jokers are hating on a class that can definitely contribute to a group. Frankly, I don't mind. I'll still tank in fear and hate on occasion when things go awry.... gotta love tons of procs, root, snare, and flame lick.

[Cogwell]

http://demotivationalblog.com/demotivational/2008/12/common-sense-just-because-you-can-doesnt-mean-you-should.jpg

I kid, I kid...

[Aadill]

I agree, to an extent, but c'mon cut us some slack :)

First time playing a ranger and I haven't regretted a second of it.

[truzek]

No, rangers aren't the best tanks, but a lot of you jokers are hating on a class that can definitely contribute to a group. Frankly, I don't mind.

I am not saying rangers don't have their value or a role in groups but tanking as a ranger is ridiculous. If you see a ranger ATTEMPTING to tank in any raiding situation you can bet something has gone awfully wrong.

[Harmonicdeth]

^^ Hence why they are OT...

[truzek]

OT as in off tanks? No they are not the best for that either. Paladins and SKs make for far better off tanks.

[Aadill]

I am not saying rangers don't have their value or a role in groups but tanking as a ranger is ridiculous. If you see a ranger ATTEMPTING to tank in any raiding situation you can bet something has gone awfully wrong.

Depends on the quality of the other offtanks :cool:

[truzek]

Depends on the quality of the other offtanks :cool:

Ok I will give you that!

[Harmonicdeth]

I can remember back on live it OT'd the boss in Kanors... Slips my mind his name at the moment, it was for my Epic.

What is your hatred towards rangers anyways?

[truzek]

What is your hatred towards rangers anyways?

Who said I hate rangers? I just said they aren't tanks which is true damnit. I play a ranger alt lol. If I got a dps spot open in my group I got no problems inviting a ranger. But if the spot is for a tank then I certainly will not invite one.

[Coalrymer]

Depends on the skill of the rangers player, and gear. To me a good tank can grab and hold agro. if no CC grab and hold aggro on multiple mobs. I played healer for more then 90% of my eq life. I would rather heal one guy with multipule mobs on him. Than 2 guys with one mob on them each.

I play a Bard, I've tanked almost the whole way to 50. I've yet to group with anyone that can hold agro off me when I want it. This includes a raid tank for a specific guild... he knows who he is. :p (BTW you still owe me 1k)

Honestly though it comes down the player skill, and how much you work on your gear. I've seen rangers out tank pallies, sk's, and warriors - Raid excluded. Although for raids they still have their uses as a minute man for rezing your actual tank/tanks if needed. Called minute man because they usually don't last much longer after.

So yes, for groups they are decent. Not the best, but decent.

[Harmonicdeth]

Who said I hate rangers? I just said they aren't tanks which is true damnit. I play a ranger alt lol. If I got a dps spot open in my group I got no problems inviting a ranger. But if the spot is for a tank then I certainly will not invite one.

Raids Warriors are the way to go...

Grouping 1-50 A ranger will do just fine, if not better as far as PuG agro control goes.

End of story :-)

[YendorLootmonkey]

Rangers can save your ass when the shit hits the fan too, like when you are running out of Unrest and the Knight lands clinging darkness on you... Then the ranger snags aggro so you can make it to the zone line. Thanks Yendor!

It wasn't the most well-thought out plan from my perspective, but you're welcome.

[Binsfelthakis]

they are good at pulling, keep mobs snared and such, DPS and slight druid buffs mostly. they are half warrior half druid so arent too great at any one thing but are versatile.
I loved playing a ranger you really have to use your wits at times, and forage/tracking/sow is nice ^^

[Jeice]

No one plays this class, just like on live. And if I joined a group over lvl 5 and saw a ranger tank I would turn tail and leave.

[Cheps]

I've played a ranger to 50 on this server, and yes we can tank just fine in groups. I've been tanking most of the time because we didn't have another tank, and it was just fine in oasis/unrest/hhk/solB. Got banded at lvl 12, ivy etched in my 30s, and could always tank fine, and hold aggro easily. I tanked royals in solB at lvl 38 for a few hours, didn't have any problem. I'm still wearing ivy ethched at 50 (thorny vine is damn rare) and I can tank frenzy/am/lord without a slower (need a cleric though). Of course I'm not tanking during raids.

During raids I'm mostly CC and DPS. Yes CC, as in snare and root park adds when you have only 1 enchanter and there are 5 mobs inc. Trust me, it does work. Druid can do that but it's harder for them because they do go down very fast. Fully raid buffed, I'm over 2.6k HP and 800ac, and I still don't have any planar armor (and missing a few other stuff too). When my fluxbladed axe procs a lot I sometime tank fear/hate trash mobs and I may be eating more mana than a warrior but it's still ok. I have yet to die on a raid except for when the raid wipe.

If you want pure DPS, go play a rogue or mage. If you don't mind a weaker DPS for utility spells, play a ranger.

[Jify]

Thought I'd throw this in (about 4 pages too late).

Bard tankage >>>>>>>>>> Ranger tankage.

Sad, but true. Especially on P99.

[Ripcord]

im 42 and have 850 ac buffed. clerics tell me i tank better then a real tank frequently. rangers can tank.

http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/148/m_b38cb102a2194785ab606410c4313610.gif

[Filwen]

im 42 and have 850 ac buffed. clerics tell me i tank better then a real tank frequently. rangers can tank.

You were getting pwned in efreeti. But you are only 42.

[Ripcord]

yea those are too high yet but kobolds and bnb is fine

[Thac0]

In vanilla EQ rangers and warriors defense cap is pretty similar. With Etched Ivy & Thorny Vine the AC gap is even less.

Come Kunark Rangers have very nice weapons that proc slow (and as any raider in vanilla onward knows, if you can slow it you can tank it, ask any shammy / Enchanter).

In other words the only people who say rangers can't tank are under-geared , dont know the game that well or using it as a segway into a joke that's just about as old as a Titantic (James Cameron) joke..and thus should be beaten with a sock full of hot nickles.

[Melias]

Okay, since I've absorbed far too much info regarding EverQuest over the years....

In the first few months of EverQuest rangers (did it carry over in to Kunark? I don't remember)) had the EXACT same AC softcap as warriors (this I'm unsure of, but the next part I am sure of), and the EXACT same overcap returns. What this meant that as long as a warrior and ranger had the same AC they would see the same tanking ability (if you discounted skill differences).

However, at some point before Kunark this got changed and rangers got their overcap return on AC dropped down to 1/3rd or more of the benefit that warriors see. It's at this point that the tired old "rangers suck," "realistic fetal position," etc. crap started popping up. Warriors were particularly vicious in this since they finally got their status as THE best tank solidified and a lot of rangers did die cause they tried tanking/soloing content that they used to be able to. But tank they still could.

Whether a ranger tanks is all about your willingness to let him. They've solidly been the 4th tank of EverQuest it's entire history with only monks ever really challenging that.

So stop projecting the same tired old jokes onto the rangers around you, and maybe the good ones will LFG instead of sticking to their friends who don't think they're a resurrection waiting to happen.

[rioisk]

http://www.bolgernow.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/pooh-owned.jpg

Pooh is playing the part of the tanking Ranger in the above image.

+1

http://img807.imageshack.us/img807/507/1280455105755.gif

[Tarvas]

Your either a ranger....or your supporting a ranger. Take your pick.../grins evily

[Jael]

It wasn't the most well-thought out plan from my perspective, but you're welcome.

I <3 My ranger! :D

Now if I could just find my bard and my rogue...

[mmiles8]

AC returns after the soft cap has been reached
45%: Warrior
33%: Paladin, ShadowKnight, Monk (Under weight cap)
23%: Cleric, Bard
17%: Ranger, Rogue, Shaman
6%: Druid, Enc, Mag, Nec, Wiz

Shields ignore AC cap regardless of class.

[Messianic]

AC returns after the soft cap has been reached
45%: Warrior
33%: Paladin, ShadowKnight, Monk (Under weight cap)
23%: Cleric, Bard
17%: Ranger, Rogue, Shaman
6%: Druid, Enc, Mag, Nec, Wiz

Shields ignore AC cap regardless of class.

Excuse the noob question, but what is the AC soft cap?

[mmiles8]

Soft Caps
Cloth..........= ~75 worn AC (yes, it really that low)
Leather......= ~100 worn AC
Monk..........= ~120 worn AC (if they are under 15 stone wieght)
Chain.........= ~200 worn AC
Plate .........= ~300 worn AC

This is from GEAR ONLY. Meaning you take all of the items, manually add their AC, and count it toward this total. Not the number in your character sheet. The number in your character sheet is a much more complex formula that includes your agility, defense skill, etc.

[Melias]

AC returns after the soft cap has been reached
45%: Warrior
33%: Paladin, ShadowKnight, Monk (Under weight cap)
23%: Cleric, Bard
17%: Ranger, Rogue, Shaman
6%: Druid, Enc, Mag, Nec, Wiz

Shields ignore AC cap regardless of class.

Coulda sworn bards and clerics had theirs raised to that level around TBS.

The ranger data is correct though.

Your softcaps should be correct too.

And for those asking what the hell the softcap and overcap return are:

The AC softcap is the point where worn AC stops giving it's full bonus, and instead gives only a % bonus as dictated by the overcap returns.

So a warrior with 350 worn AC (not displayed, worn is adding up all that AC on your gear) will actually only see 322.5 AC benefit.

[mmiles8]

Coulda sworn bards and clerics had theirs raised to that level around TBS.

That may be the case.

[Melias]

That may be the case.

I'd need to do some searching, but I know most of that data is pre-SoF, but I honestly can't recall if bards/clerics got their boost before then or not. I think they did.

Go, go search powers, away!

Edit:

"The actual Post Softcap numbers based on the returns from the AoW calculations are (Quoted from Nodyin):

War: 34.38% (Keep in mind they have a natural DI advantage)

Knight: 32.25%

Bard/Monk/Cleric/Ranger: 30.3%

Beast/Rogue/Sham/Zerk: 25%

Druids/Silks: 20%"

That's all post-SoF, so I guess those are the cleric/bard numbers.

On Live rangers are pretty godlike, but yea, they languished for a long time without a real niche which made most groups avoid them since the Holy Trinity was king in people's minds.

[YendorLootmonkey]

I <3 My ranger! :D

<3 your mana pool! :D

[stormlord]

Coulda sworn bards and clerics had theirs raised to that level around TBS.

The ranger data is correct though.

Your softcaps should be correct too.

And for those asking what the hell the softcap and overcap return are:

The AC softcap is the point where worn AC stops giving it's full bonus, and instead gives only a % bonus as dictated by the overcap returns.

So a warrior with 350 worn AC (not displayed, worn is adding up all that AC on your gear) will actually only see 322.5 AC benefit.

Isn't that level based too? I would like to see a post about what the softcap is at each level. I think that when you increase defense skill, the softcap increases.

[stormlord]

I'd need to do some searching, but I know most of that data is pre-SoF, but I honestly can't recall if bards/clerics got their boost before then or not. I think they did.

Go, go search powers, away!

Edit:

"The actual Post Softcap numbers based on the returns from the AoW calculations are (Quoted from Nodyin):

War: 34.38% (Keep in mind they have a natural DI advantage)

Knight: 32.25%

Bard/Monk/Cleric/Ranger: 30.3%

Beast/Rogue/Sham/Zerk: 25%

Druids/Silks: 20%"

That's all post-SoF, so I guess those are the cleric/bard numbers.

On Live rangers are pretty godlike, but yea, they languished for a long time without a real niche which made most groups avoid them since the Holy Trinity was king in people's minds.

That's what happens when too many mobs summon and rooting them doesn't help. Or when tracking doesn't help because everyone is staying in the same place. Or when you don't need to worry about them running away at below 20 percent health. Or when a ranger can't function as an interim tank like a pally or sk because mobs can kill you in one round. ETc. ETc. The content wasn't made with rangers in mind. And a lot of those abilities were given to other classes as AA's and disciplines. It just watered down our effectiveness, but groups still wanted us for our dps. This watering down happened to a lot of classes too. Probably has something to do with population issues. If there're less people, you can't have any single class be too specialized or desired.

Also you know, rangers have always been seen as gimp, but I think in classic we have more utility value because we're better able to work as interim tanks (when things go wrong) and can root (mobs don't summon) and so on. I'm probably missing the bigger picture, but I never said I was perfect.

Rangers not god, btw. John Lennon is god. And you -will- worship him or i will ranger gate you.

(i have an 85 ranger on live, btw. i can play him whenever i want. do you have that?)

[stormlord]

Okay, since I've absorbed far too much info regarding EverQuest over the years....

In the first few months of EverQuest rangers (did it carry over in to Kunark? I don't remember)) had the EXACT same AC softcap as warriors (this I'm unsure of, but the next part I am sure of), and the EXACT same overcap returns. What this meant that as long as a warrior and ranger had the same AC they would see the same tanking ability (if you discounted skill differences).

However, at some point before Kunark this got changed and rangers got their overcap return on AC dropped down to 1/3rd or more of the benefit that warriors see. It's at this point that the tired old "rangers suck," "realistic fetal position," etc. crap started popping up. Warriors were particularly vicious in this since they finally got their status as THE best tank solidified and a lot of rangers did die cause they tried tanking/soloing content that they used to be able to. But tank they still could.

Whether a ranger tanks is all about your willingness to let him. They've solidly been the 4th tank of EverQuest it's entire history with only monks ever really challenging that.

So stop projecting the same tired old jokes onto the rangers around you, and maybe the good ones will LFG instead of sticking to their friends who don't think they're a resurrection waiting to happen.

People forget that our solo-ability allows us to better make money and complete quests on our own. We're more self-sufficient and this means, sometimes anyway, that we can get access to better gear. Of course, it's easier to make an alt for that, like a druid, just saying...

Lets not forget that being a ranger is more than being a tank. Snaring, rooting, tracking, blasting, doting, healing, sowing, invising, bowing, dsing, taken together, make rangers equally valuable. Even on live I've saved people from dying simply by doing patch healing. Serious. I know for a fact that, at least on live, even our minimal healing could mean the difference between living and dying. That's just healing alone. I am not mentioning all of the other things we can do that people have always ignored because someone else can do it better. They forget that it's always nice to have more than 1 snarer. Redundancy means extra security.

People who sacrifice security for speed do so at a risk. It's true that some classes and abilities stack better than others, but when you're in a zone where things can change in a heart beat, then having redundancy is that much more important. Even the best snarer can forget to snare too.

You need to consider the entire class. People like to make things simpler than they really our. They can't comprehend all of our abilities and how they might help, it's too sporadic for them, that's why they keep things simple by obsessing about the trinity and only wanting people who specialize in one area.