Hybrid boss respawns?

[Melissa]

Rogean and crew maintain that variance is a good thing for anti poopsocking. All highend guilds have proven that they're gonna poopsock period. Whether with 10 or 2, whatever...

Rogean and crew also maintain that variance is good for the Euro/Asian population as well...to give them a chance that targets might spawn during their timeframe.

We, the majority, really really want simulated patch days where all bosses are up at the same time to force guilds to choose wisely.

Why not a hybrid of both? Variance (without that garbage extended bullshit) complete respawns?

1) This still lets Euro/Asians have a shot, and makes guilds decide which targets to go for, while still maintaining competition if two or more guilds choose same targets...

2) This might alleviate some poopsocking still since trackers will be spread out and there's only so many people who can log into trackers...we all know TMO still might carry and advantage in this, but they still need to concentrate forces and decide wisely. One could argue, well they're so big they can just split forces. Let's be honest, that takes a TON of effort, and if they do that, they still have to have the right people leading raids to be effective anyways...

3) This will be fun and create new dynamic, and actually be closer to classic...since variance isn't really classic anyways...I prefer simulated patch days during EST Primetime, but that's selfish of me hah...

Keep R&F out, and please reply with constructive criticisms/support? I'd even welcome addendum's/fixes to my idea!

I'm not sure I've seen this idea gain steam, but methinks given enough support, perhaps it might grace the ears of the devs...

GM's/Devs please chime in from your perspectives on factors we're not thinking about. I think the server populace has proven it cannot police itself nor act with maturity. So, I'd imagine telling us to "deal with it" just won't cut it longterm. Or you don't have to...this is just a friendly open discussion...

PS: Keep FTE Shouts too...enforce no-kiting/stalling like it sorta is now...

Would this be difficult to code one variance timer which feeds respawn triggers to all raid bosses on the server simultaneously?

[Melissa]

and OF course the minor details will need to be ironed out like how often and etc...

hell I'd be fine with how it is now+the hybrid (ohnoes more loot too often you commie?) but at least it's closer to classic...

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Rogean and crew maintain that variance is a good thing for anti poopsocking. All highend guilds have proven that they're gonna poopsock period. Whether with 10 or 2, whatever...

Rogean and crew also maintain that variance is good for the Euro/Asian population as well...to give them a chance that targets might spawn during their timeframe.

We, the majority, really really want simulated patch days where all bosses are up at the same time to force guilds to choose wisely.

Why not a hybrid of both? Variance (without that garbage extended bullshit) complete respawns?

1) This still lets Euro/Asians have a shot, and makes guilds decide which targets to go for, while still maintaining competition if two or more guilds choose same targets...

2) This might alleviate some poopsocking still since trackers will be spread out and there's only so many people who can log into trackers...we all know TMO still might carry and advantage in this, but they still need to concentrate forces and decide wisely. One could argue, well they're so big they can just split forces. Let's be honest, that takes a TON of effort, and if they do that, they still have to have the right people leading raids to be effective anyways...

3) This will be fun and create new dynamic, and actually be closer to classic...since variance isn't really classic anyways...I prefer simulated patch days during EST Primetime, but that's selfish of me hah...

Keep R&F out, and please reply with constructive criticisms/support? I'd even welcome addendum's/fixes to my idea!

I'm not sure I've seen this idea gain steam, but methinks given enough support, perhaps it might grace the ears of the devs...

GM's/Devs please chime in from your perspectives on factors we're not thinking about. I think the server populace has proven it cannot police itself nor act with maturity. So, I'd imagine telling us to "deal with it" just won't cut it longterm. Or you don't have to...this is just a friendly open discussion...

PS: Keep FTE Shouts too...enforce no-kiting/stalling like it sorta is now...

Would this be difficult to code one variance timer which feeds respawn triggers to all raid bosses on the server simultaneously?

I like the idea of server repops and really, the fact that we have to talk about them is a testemant to the uptime of this server.

Another thing that I think would help the server would be to remove MQ - lots of hurt feelings if you removed it but I generally think it has a negative effect on the server and or what its worth, it mixes up the strategy with regards to targets on full repops.

Workload and implementation are the utmost consideration though so anything that came from it would have to be fairly easy to cook up and maintain.

My 2cp :)

[SamwiseRed]

how about no variance and simulated repops.

[Cecily]

Remove variance from spawn timers altogether. Add variance in the form of a sim patch that go off on a biweekly basis, with a window of occurrence from day 8 - day 14 since the last patch.

[Melissa]

how about no variance and simulated repops.

woops, my bad...read that as how about neither...sounded like a huge "fuck yo couch" comment
I like the idea of server repops and really, the fact that we have to talk about them is a testemant to the uptime of this server.

Another thing that I think would help the server would be to remove MQ - lots of hurt feelings if you removed it but I generally think it has a negative effect on the server and or what its worth, it mixes up the strategy with regards to targets on full repops.

Workload and implementation are the utmost consideration though so anything that came from it would have to be fairly easy to cook up and maintain.

My 2cp :)
as for MQ's, it's a specific classic mechanic that will likely not be removed...especially for velious armors...if anything they need to make certain epics unuseable until a certain lvl, but that was implemented later...

But i think the entire server is pretty tired of the garbage raid scene.

[Melissa]

Remove variance from spawn timers altogether. Add variance in the form of a sim patch that go off on a biweekly basis, with a window of occurrence from day 8 - day 14 since the last patch.

Cecily is onto something...I'd support that...

But I know Rogean wants to be able to cater to people on the other side of the world without opening another server for them...therefore my theory is that Rogean will not compromise some sort of random variance timers to allow for the possibility of respawns during those hours.

[Cecily]

perhaps i needed to specify that this is on Blue...cause your comment was not constructive at all...

Who are you speaking to, first of all? If you're talking to Master Samwise, he said the exact same thing I did.

[Melissa]

oops...comment edited...

i need to l2readingcomprehension


anyways, i see zero foreseable weaknesses in the idea honestly...

it preserves competition, gives guilds a shot at easier content, forces guilds to strategize/prioritize/compromise/sacrifice...

It has little to do with redistribution of wealth...more to do with what's more classic...

[Cecily]

Yeah I'd be down. Would also involve regular days of dead time with no raiding. I'd actually really like that.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Yeah I understand MQ is a classic mechanic - I suspended my adherence to those mechanics when I made the comment because I really do think some mechanics are broken and in need of a fix.

With that being said I think it is necessary to point out that MQ'ing incentivates nearly every raid-level mob to a point where it never falls out of favor for a guild to kill it. Without a progression or a clear next step in character development you will simply be spreading it out.

Tl:dr MQ makes shit mountains our of shit mole hills.

[Melissa]

Yeah I understand MQ is a classic mechanic - I suspended my adherence to those mechanics when I made the comment because I really do think some mechanics are broken and in need of a fix.

With that being said I think it is necessary to point out that MQ'ing incentivates nearly every raid-level mob to a point where it never falls out of favor for a guild to kill it. Without a progression or a clear next step in character development you will simply be spreading it out.

Tl:dr MQ makes shit mountains our of shit mole hills.

I agree with the sentiments for sure bro...i feel ya...

Cecily...we should really try really really hard to get this up to the devs ears...before anyone tries to say we're over entitled to volunteer time blah blah blah...they don't have to do shit if they don't want to...

But at least like cecily said, we get dead time to do other shit on our mains...this is a HUGE point that I like.

I would love to hear back to see what constraints there are to this idea. Programming-wise, logistics...etc.

I know Cecily and I would be willing to help out with ideas on how to get things better regardless of what's said in and outside of R&F.

Honestly, R&F will still continue to happen even with the idea implemented...hell for some, it's part of the fun.

[Cecily]

Tl:dr MQ makes shit mountains our of shit mole hills.

TL;DR: Why are you bringing up MQ in a variance thread?

[Elements]

Tldr: to rogean and devs, even though you have already put much time and effort into this issue and have no real incentive or reason to put more time or effort into this issue, put more time and effort into the issue and maybe we can complain about that and ask for more changes later.

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

TL;DR: Why are you bringing up MQ in a variance thread?

Tbh with you I probably had a conversation in my head and settled upon an answer without any other input.

Removing variance or any other single pronged aproach to this issue does nothing but converts an already stale issue into another stale issue (re: every other FTE, Variance, thisraidscenesucks thread etc...). Without consideration to any of the root causes all you're doing is supplanting 1 problem with another. Again, suspending my adherence to Classic game mechanics, it would be good to see some long term solutions coupled with some of the things a good portion of our community have been asking for.

My apologies - it was never meant to be a threadjack. You may resume your regularly scheduled program.

[Melissa]

Tldr: to rogean and devs, even though you have already put much time and effort into this issue and have no real incentive or reason to put more time or effort into this issue, put more time and effort into the issue and maybe we can complain about that and ask for more changes later.

thanks for the contribution!

[Castigate]

You could try a hybrid of the current system and simulated repops.
My idea would be to group certain bosses to the same spawn timer, for example make it so both Trak and VS spawn at the same time every time, with the varied spawn time reset each time either was killed.

This would probably work better with the 7 day spawns, for example having PD, Talendor, Inny, and Vox all spawn at the same time would still allow for competition which favors the better guild, but also allows others to get some spawns. Also it could allow for some amount of timer trolling if people forgot to kill Vox (or Yael) for a few days.
It would be a less sweeping change than full repops only, and also serve as a test to see if full repops would be the better route.

I can't pretend to know whether or not this is even possible to code, but it seems like a good idea.
Any real number/combination of mobs would probably work, although I'd think at least one of the groups should be solely VP dragons.

[Cecily]

woops, my bad ... sounded like a huge "fuck yo couch" comment.

Now Element's post was a huge fuck yo couch comment.

[indiscriminate_hater]

Cecily...we should really try really really hard to get this up to the devs ears...before anyone tries to say we're over entitled to volunteer time blah blah blah...they don't have to do shit if they don't want to...

Tldr: to rogean and devs, even though you have already put much time and effort into this issue and have no real incentive or reason to put more time or effort into this issue, put more time and effort into the issue and maybe we can complain about that and ask for more changes later.

called it

[Argh]

why not just play nice

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

called it

Some peoples kids...

[Nune]

Hey it's this thread again. Great idea tbh, not gonna happen. Variance was put in, a non-classic feature, into a strictly classic server for a specific reason. This reason will just RnF this thread up, but it's well known and we should just accept and move on.

Stop theoryquesting, use your efforts to get Nilbog Velimus info so that can launch correctly, and asap. THAT'S your best bet at getting some Kubark raids

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

Hey it's this thread again. Great idea tbh, not gonna happen. Variance was put in, a non-classic feature, into a strictly classic server for a specific reason. This reason will just RnF this thread up, but it's well known and we should just accept and move on.

Stop theoryquesting, use your efforts to get Nilbog Velimus info so that can launch correctly, and asap. THAT'S your best bet at getting some Kubark raids

This post made me laugh hard.

Sir, your misspellings remind me of a coke-bottled glasses nerd literally screaming at his computer screen shooting spittle everywhere.

Good job sir.

[Clark]

http://s17.postimg.org/mqjgagicv/hulk_hogan_3.jpg
Simulated repop isn't classic. Not a fan.

[doraf]

I think simulated patch days would raise the number of items out there and lower their RMT values. Every spawn does this, so extending the window 3 or 4 times is also good for the RMT market. Wearing down other guilds, so that only one guild can get all of the loots is also good for RMT as well.

[Melissa]

Soooo full repop day was a crazy amount of fun and since rogean was having trouble getting it up (giggity, jk) it added a randomish factor...

Just sayin...this idea shouldn't be quickly dismissed! I know a ton of other guilds must've had a ton of fun coordinating raids and mobilization racing other guilds...

Sooooo...bump!

PS http://www.project1999.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1184174&postcount=748 Evidence that this would be good for the health of the server

[Cecily]

I think simulated patch days would raise the number of items out there and lower their RMT values. Every spawn does this, so extending the window 3 or 4 times is also good for the RMT market. Wearing down other guilds, so that only one guild can get all of the loots is also good for RMT as well.

Almost everything, easily 90%+. one guild gets is awarded to members you tinfoil hat wearing moran. The rest of the gear is banked, publicly recorded and accounted for.

[doraf]

I think simulated patch days would raise the number of items out there and lower their RMT values. Every spawn does this, so extending the window 3 or 4 times is also good for the RMT market. Wearing down other guilds, so that only one guild can get all of the loots is also good for RMT as well.

Almost everything, easily 90%+. one guild gets is awarded to members you tinfoil hat wearing moran. The rest of the gear is banked, publicly recorded and accounted for.

It was a joke. Then again, I'm explaining this to somebody who can't even spell "moron."

[Cecily]

I spelled it right.

[Lagaidh]

Now Element's post was a huge fuck yo couch comment.

I'm a dev by trade and even though sarcastic, Element is actually offering a very valid point from the other perspective. (Assuming the two sides are 'Players' and 'Staff'.)

We all hear on the forums about this place being free to play and the staff gets no compensation, hobby of love, etc., but it seems those sentiments really are not taken to heart when the topic of discussion is so hot-button.

As a dev by trade, I seriously do not understand what has kept the staff going on this project. I sure do appreciate it and am grateful, but I don't truly understand it. You could tell me the motivation, and I would understand you, but when I see how the player base reacts on the forums regularly... man my understanding falls apart. Maybe it's just thicker skin on their part.

Element's basically saying the staff is damned if they do, damned if they don't. Sure there are plenty of common sense arguments, but we all know there is no single panacea for the raid scene on this server. The fundamental design of EverQuest does not support "normal" play inside of the same content for so long, and the player base here is full of EQ encyclopedias for players.

I'm not trying to thread shit or anything. I always enjoy these threads when they are civil just from an engineer's perspective.

TL;DR - No matter how brusque the delivery... Element has a point.

[Yibz]

http://s17.postimg.org/mqjgagicv/hulk_hogan_3.jpg
Simulated repop isn't classic. Not a fan.

Frequent patches with repops is classic as hell.

[Yibz]

I still think you want to keep some sort of variance in though. Those mega socks at trak and VS were terrible.

[Jo soap]

Rogean and crew maintain that variance is a good thing for anti poopsocking. All highend guilds have proven that they're gonna poopsock period. Whether with 10 or 2


I think one tracker or a couple of FTE’ers is less demanding on collective player time than having multiple ready to engage raid forces waiting for a respawn, even if that were only applicable toward the end of a non extendable window, and is therefore positive. Variance also prevents mobs becoming synced to playing hours which are unsociable for certain timezones (possibly even times which are unsociable for the majority of the player base, which disadvantages more casual players/guilds).


We, the majority, really really want simulated patch days where all bosses are up at the same time to force guilds to choose wisely.

Why not a hybrid of both? Variance (without that garbage extended bullshit) complete respawns?



I don’t really understand the proposal. Is it:

a full respawn that will occur within a given window? If this is the case, then I don’t see the relevance of trackers (your point 2) refers). On the odd occasion when it currently happens, a full respawn, and the subsequent total absence of mob spawns for a day or two, is an interesting change of pace, and it does indeed breed a different competition dynamic. I quite like the current situation though where I can get home from work and the chances are good that a raid target will spawn during my playtime. I think it would be pretty dull to have a full respawn happen while I am at work, then know I will have no opportunity to raid for x-days until the next respawn. This may happen several windows in a row, meaning that a significant period of time (several weeks?) may pass between my opportunities to raid;

Do you propose the current system, with an additional full respawn on a completely separate timer? If so, I’m concerned that doubling the rate of incoming items would make them less rewarding and effectively be taking a step to make the game 'easier'. Kunark has already been around for a very long time, do we need to accelerate the rate at which items enter the ‘market’? I concede however that respawns did happen due to server reboots on live (and as a euro player, these often worked in my favour);

Do you propose that the full repop and varience timers are integrated in some way? How would the respawn timers operate after mobs were killed as part of a repop scenario;

Or any other interpretations of your proposal which I have missed.



As an aside
Soooo full repop day was a crazy amount of fun and since rogean was having trouble getting it up (giggity, jk) it added a randomish factor...

Just sayin...this idea shouldn't be quickly dismissed! I know a ton of other guilds must've had a ton of fun coordinating raids and mobilization racing other guilds...


I found this randomish factor a little unfortunate, having arranged time off work to be home for what I hoped would be a repop, then instead dragging myself form bed at 4am when things came up (not intended as a complaint). As I mention above, full re-pops will always be at antisocial hours for some of the server playerbase. The majority of players on the server will not get out of bed to raid. As a Euro I hope that if a repop system were implemented it wouldn’t be weighted to benefit some time zones more than others as this would create a new imbalance of its own.

[Melissa]

Now that I've been reminiscing on classic times? I propose that we keep current system and just do random full repops once a month or so...

But whatever...pretty sure this is just a pipe dream

All I know is that full repop days are hella fun

[Gnomersy]

Repop was a lot of fun IMO. Scheduled repop once every 60 days 1 random repop once a month keep other mechanics the same. Up until velious OFC.

[Droog007]

...Would also involve regular days of dead time with no raiding. I'd actually really like that.

Feels good to relax the death grip once in a while, eh? I should imagine so.