Koadic's Endless Intellect

[rixardion]

Will we ever see it again? I seem to remember this spell in particular being patched in before Luclin actually went live? That and virtue. I know it's not a popular opinion, but i believe Luclin to be everquest's pinnacle, though the lvl 46 restriction on kei and virtue should have existed from the get go.

Luclin brought the nexus where porting and buffing business was absolutely booming! It brought AAs which were a fantastic reason to keep playing once you hit max level! It brought the bazaar which really helped the availability in terms of tradeskill and cheaper items. The nexus portal locations were spread out just right, to not make the world seem smaller. There were still reasons to use a boat.

Edit: Forgot to mention wizards getting TLs and familiars too, great additions to that class.

Anyway, just wondering if anyone has any idea how far into velious we will be going

[pharmakos]

Anyway, just wondering if anyone has any idea how far into velious we will be going

as far as i know, we will be going right up to the very end of velious.

[diplo]

considering this was released right before luclin and that the dev's are considering custom content after velious, my prediction is that KEI will be patched in sometime in 2017.

[rixardion]

as far as i know, we will be going right up to the very end of velious.

I'm hoping we eventually see AAs in some form. They could be implemented without actually adding luclin zones and whatnot im sure if there's a strong stand against luclin. I'm wondering if anyone actually disliked AAs.

[rixardion]

considering this was released right before luclin and that the dev's are considering custom content after velious, my prediction is that KEI will be patched in sometime in 2017.

Hahaha

[doraf]

Will we ever see it again? I seem to remember this spell in particular being patched in before Luclin actually went live? That and virtue. I know it's not a popular opinion, but i believe Luclin to be everquest's pinnacle, though the lvl 46 restriction on kei and virtue should have existed from the get go.

Luclin brought the nexus where porting and buffing business was absolutely booming! It brought AAs which were a fantastic reason to keep playing once you hit max level! It brought the bazaar which really helped the availability in terms of tradeskill and cheaper items. The nexus portal locations were spread out just right, to not make the world seem smaller. There were still reasons to use a boat.

Anyway, just wondering if anyone has any idea how far into velious we will be going

LOL funny. All the reasons listed above is when I started to hate EQ. All those great additions eventually lead to shit like mercenaries and gay ass monster missions and just nonsense.

[Ele]

Not on my watch.

[Vohl]

Wasn't KEI a SoL boss drop? It may have been patched into the spells just before SoL was released, but I'm pretty sure nobody had it scribed.

[Arteker]

nah kei is a luclin spell

[Aerar]

Luclin destroyed the game.

It introduced a powerlevel zone, you all know it - PC broke the game and let people go from 14-30 in a matter of hours. Why would we want the Bazaar that let people afk sell their wares when we have a really successfull EC Tunnel that is a STAPLE to classic EQ.

Anything that does away with real human interaction such as EC Tunnel or makes the game inherently easier such as PC RUINS the game.

[Nytch]

Wasn't KEI a SoL boss drop? It may have been patched into the spells just before SoL was released, but I'm pretty sure nobody had it scribed.

The only thing I remember about KEI was the clicky ornate pants from PoP, they made me a lot of money in PoK

[Atmas]

Luclin destroyed the game.

It introduced a powerlevel zone, you all know it - PC broke the game and let people go from 14-30 in a matter of hours. Why would we want the Bazaar that let people afk sell their wares when we have a really successfull EC Tunnel that is a STAPLE to classic EQ.

Anything that does away with real human interaction such as EC Tunnel or makes the game inherently easier such as PC RUINS the game.

Plenty of ways even now to power level people from 14-30. It wasn't even such a big deal since when AAs came out there was a lot more progression than just hitting level 60.

[Faisca]

Anything that does away with real human interaction such as EC Tunnel or makes the game inherently easier such as PC RUINS the game.

EC Tunnel is not real human interaction. :D

It baffles me there are people who prefer the EC Tunnel over the Bazaar, other for the sake of keeping the server "classic". :confused:

[myxomatosii]

EC Tunnel is not real human interaction. :D

It baffles me there are people who prefer the EC Tunnel over the Bazaar, other for the sake of keeping the server "classic". :confused:

/t hey man i offer 2k
/t hey can you take 2k?
/t hello?

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

I personally liked Luclin but that's because I actually quit just before Velious came out and came back just before PoP.

If there ever was progression beyond Velious it would be neat to see:
- Nexus nerfed with only access to Luclin areas to keep druids and wizards in business.
- Bazaar eliminated.
- PC brought into real world ZEM territories.

Pretty sure those things and cats on the moon were the only things that really killed immersion. Wouldn't mind seeing zones like UP and Scarlet Desert again.

[Origin]

KEI 2017

[uygi]

Oh we do this so often. Oh well! If we're talking altered Luclin...

I'd say keep the bazaar zone, and keep the zone weight-immune and let it be the new EC, absolutely no trader mode.

The Nexus spires transportation wasn't that convenient, could even increase the interval to avoid replacing ports; I never felt like druids/wizards were replaced until PoK was released.

Not sure why anyone cares about PC, really not that different from upper guk. I'm sure any non-classic content added would get tuned to Nilbog's satisfaction so I wouldn't worry about shit like that.

I think that, aside from the mudflation of AAs and the Bazaar, Luclin was just fine. As far as I can remember there was more justification for cats on the moon after Velious than there was for lizardmen in Kunark after original launch. I'm sure it would be a lot of work but it'd be really fun to force Vah Shits to use classic Kerran model!

My solution to AAs if ever added is that they'd get harder and harder to earn as you got more of them, forcing tradeoffs. It was just too easy to grind the fuck out of them and get all the damn things.

[Atmas]

Nexus nerfed with only access to Luclin areas to keep druids and wizards in business.


I actually made tons of money porting on live hanging out in the Nexus and Bazaar. They provided a hub for people, many of which who wanted speedier transit or locations different than what the Nexus ports provided.

I also never felt like traders stopped people from auctioning or haggling.

[Versch]

Seriously. Nexus added boats to and from NK, Tox, G Fay, GD and DL (15 minute interval ports). Yes, it made travel slightly easier, but it in no way made druid/wiz porting obsolete. That was PoK.

[Vohl]

As nice as it was to have KEI, I think that spell was a bad idea. Nobody seemed to need enchanters in their group after that spell became commonplace.

Edit: Elder Thought Horror? I think that was what dropped it.

[Nuggie]

Luclin destroyed the game.

Not on my watch.

This.

[fadetree]

I liked Luclin ok, but it *was* the beginning of the massive dumbing down and mudflation of later EQ. I can live without it.

Modified luclin probably would be ok once custom stuff is started...for instance, turn PC down so its not a self PL spot. That and a few other changes would maybe go a long way towards reconciling luclin with classic. Luclin DID have some good stuff, some good encounters and mechanics. I do think AA's as they were then were a good idea. Plus, of course, rangers actually got a bit of help during luclin with AM/EQ aa's.

[uygi]

Nobody's saying any form of Luclin implementation would have to be authentic. While P99 aims to be as genuinely classic as possible, there are a lot of things on this server that are not classic both by developers' choice and for technical reasons, never mind how un-classic the playerbase is.

Custom post-Velious content could use any zones in the Titanium client, and I'm sure it's possible to build complete custom zones if there was a real will to do so. There are elements of Luclin that are totally reasonable, like the remnants of the Combine empire and the Shissar living in The Grey. If the cats on the moon are really the sticking point, just eliminate Shar Vahl and bridge the zone connections on either side of it. Don't want to add AAs? Might need to re-tune some content to not need them, but that's really not such a big deal.

[pasi]

Oh we do this so often. Oh well! If we're talking altered Luclin...


Modified repost, but:

Luclin ended up being a really solid expansion - it just sucked at first.

I'd go as far as to say the modrod change was the greatest change to raiding in EQ's history. If you have never raided Velious or Luclin before the change - you basically have magicians face a wall and throw 100s of modrods to the floor so the CHeal rotating clerics never go OOM as your DPS autoattacks whatever bad dude that can't possibly kill your tank getting CHealed every 2 seconds. Post rod change, everything got huge HP nerfs and modrods received a cooldown.

Bazaar > EC. I guess there's some people that enjoy the people aspect of EC, but I liked being able to PvP (arena in bazaar) while buying/selling. I enjoyed being able to leave a second account online selling stuff, but I'm someone who would rather play outside of EC.

The whole cats on the moon thing is overblown since Shar Vhal is way the fuck in the middle of no where. I think I went there twice over my entire course of EQ live.

The spires shrinked the world, but using them was still far less desirable than getting a port. It took up to 30 minutes to go from one limited destination to another.

Like every expansion, itemization was fucked at first, but ended up being great. The AC/HP/Mana difference between Luclin and Velious was very small, but the difference was focus effects, more available ATK gear, and more FT gear. Basically, gear became a lot more attractive for non-tanks. Up until focus effects, it really doesn't matter if your caster has 3k HP/mana or 5k HP/mana - your spells are the same. Same thing with melee DPS and non-weapons/haste.

The concept of elemental and bane damage is interesting, but never fully realized. Elemental damage was generally regarded as 1/3rd as effective as weapon damage; however, the aggro per swing of elemental damage is the same as weapon damage. In other words, they could have made proc-less weapons desirable by tanks but not DPS.

Luclin started to modernize raids. You started to see encounters that weren't just a hitbox with an AOE. I posted about this before, but I think the reason Velious encounters are so well received compared to the more complex Luclin encounters has to do with the NPC models being the same and the bleaker environment. If you're not sold on that idea, go look at how well Gates of Discord was received from an aesthetic standpoint.

SSra Temple was one of the better raid zones EQ ever put out. Every encounter there was quality with the exception of Xerkizh the Creator who was basically a Velious-era fight carried over.

I never did Acrylia 1.0 outside of the Ring of Fire and Burrower. Ring of Fire was an amazing fight when it actually worked. I think only Ring of Valor ever ended up doing Inner Acrylia. There was the whole Grimling War raid that never got done much until EQmac years later.

Vex Thal was a huge disappointment outside of the loot. I'll give this point up to the Luclin haters. So. much. trash. The zone was pretty, the loot was awesome, and blinding Eoms were hilarious, but still a piece of shit zone.

Toward the end of Velious, you started to see a return to groupable gear not being terrible with the revamp of Chardok. This continued in Luclin and probably culminated with the revamp of Cazic Thule. Cazic Thule post-revamp was fucking awesome as an exp zone. You got FT2 shoes from Tormax Head? Well, fuck you - I got me FT3 from the Sewers of motherfucking Cazic Thule.

AAs give people progression outside of gear (raiding). This brings people back to Sebilis, Howling Stones, Velks, etc. and returns some of the social aspect to the game. Toward the end of Velious, 60s just AFKd in Thurg/Kael and occasionally raided.

And for the first time in EQ's history, the developers tried to give a fuck about balance. Druids become ok again, rangers stop sucking, paladins get something to do on raids, mages stop being vending machines, necros become a real DPS class, wizards stop sucking in sustained fights, etc.

Luclin, fuck yeah.

[myxomatosii]

Seriously. Nexus added boats to and from NK, Tox, G Fay, GD and DL (15 minute interval ports). Yes, it made travel slightly easier, but it in no way made druid/wiz porting obsolete. That was PoK.

The best was when you got to the spires, sat down for your port. Oh cool its energizing, wait, why didn't I zone??


FUCK I FORGOT TO ASK FOR THE FUCKING GEM.

[uygi]

The best was when you got to the spires, sat down for your port. Oh cool its energizing, wait, why didn't I zone??


FUCK I FORGOT TO ASK FOR THE FUCKING GEM.Sound pretty damn classic to me!

[Luclin analysis]
Luclin, fuck yeah.I'm with you, the problems with Luclin weren't humongous. Some reasonable adjustments could make it what it needs to be to be the continuation of the P99 server. IMO on the day you release whatever-the-new-stuff-is post-Velious, start a fresh P99 blue server and have it run the full course classic the whole way, when it's done merge it onto the server with new content...

But some people are just gonna hate.

[fadetree]

...(excellent analysis)...
Luclin, fuck yeah.

With ya Pasi. Good writeup.

[Tenlaar]

I'll echo that Luclin, fuck yeah. And I don't care what anybody says, popping into the bazaar and searching for stuff is roughly 1000000% better than sitting in the damned EC tunnel all day just to not find the items you want.

[Cookiefist]

It seems to me Kunark - Velious - Luclin is pretty good balance of raid content for the amount of pop on this server to handle...

[jpetrick]

Things I enjoy: playing the game
Things I don't enjoy: Spamming EC. If we could just get the bazaar and nothing else from Luclin that would satisfy me

[Aerar]

Things I enjoy: playing the game
Things I don't enjoy: Spamming EC. If we could just get the bazaar and nothing else from Luclin that would satisfy me

You prefer afk bots that will set the market value? I hate that then its not an auction, at least with EC you can make offers and trades - Bazaar makes it just afk for plat

[Atmas]

pasi, I love your post.

I think Velious was a good addition after Kunark but it did very little for meaningful progression for a lot of caster classes. Infact I would go so far as to say most true casters kind of take a substantial hit on raid usefulness.

[Aerar]

To be fair we arent even at Velius yet so Luclin if it was even ever considered should be years away

[jpetrick]

You prefer afk bots that will set the market value? I hate that then its not an auction, at least with EC you can make offers and trades - Bazaar makes it just afk for plat

I don't have all day to sit in the tunnel looking for an item. I would rather pay more and have the convenience of being able to hit the bazaar for 5 minutes get what I want then resume playing. I used to always send a pm over an item as well, sometimes the person would be there and be willing to cut a little off.
Also I can sit there and afk to sell my bags. Do you know how boring it is to sit in the tunnel selling handmade bags? Answer: incredibly.

[Vohl]

Ssra was the one thing about Luclin that I liked. The rest of it was alien and either plotless or unappealing.

[rixardion]

There are quite a few well thought out posts that are actually on the side of Luclin being a good expansion, and while I thought I was in the minority here, it seems that many share my feelings.

I have complete confidence that we all know the things that truly ruined the game, the reasons we aren't playing live today, so I believe any type of implementation would be the best that it could be. Any change that would help balance or would deter inevitable over powering would most certainly be made to curb such things from happening. We have seen the future, we have an enormous advantage when deciding what truly "broke" aspects of the game or the game as a whole!

[Arteker]

Modified repost, but:

Luclin ended up being a really solid expansion - it just sucked at first.

I'd go as far as to say the modrod change was the greatest change to raiding in EQ's history. If you have never raided Velious or Luclin before the change - you basically have magicians face a wall and throw 100s of modrods to the floor so the CHeal rotating clerics never go OOM as your DPS autoattacks whatever bad dude that can't possibly kill your tank getting CHealed every 2 seconds. Post rod change, everything got huge HP nerfs and modrods received a cooldown.

Bazaar > EC. I guess there's some people that enjoy the people aspect of EC, but I liked being able to PvP (arena in bazaar) while buying/selling. I enjoyed being able to leave a second account online selling stuff, but I'm someone who would rather play outside of EC.

The whole cats on the moon thing is overblown since Shar Vhal is way the fuck in the middle of no where. I think I went there twice over my entire course of EQ live.

The spires shrinked the world, but using them was still far less desirable than getting a port. It took up to 30 minutes to go from one limited destination to another.

Like every expansion, itemization was fucked at first, but ended up being great. The AC/HP/Mana difference between Luclin and Velious was very small, but the difference was focus effects, more available ATK gear, and more FT gear. Basically, gear became a lot more attractive for non-tanks. Up until focus effects, it really doesn't matter if your caster has 3k HP/mana or 5k HP/mana - your spells are the same. Same thing with melee DPS and non-weapons/haste.

The concept of elemental and bane damage is interesting, but never fully realized. Elemental damage was generally regarded as 1/3rd as effective as weapon damage; however, the aggro per swing of elemental damage is the same as weapon damage. In other words, they could have made proc-less weapons desirable by tanks but not DPS.

Luclin started to modernize raids. You started to see encounters that weren't just a hitbox with an AOE. I posted about this before, but I think the reason Velious encounters are so well received compared to the more complex Luclin encounters has to do with the NPC models being the same and the bleaker environment. If you're not sold on that idea, go look at how well Gates of Discord was received from an aesthetic standpoint.

SSra Temple was one of the better raid zones EQ ever put out. Every encounter there was quality with the exception of Xerkizh the Creator who was basically a Velious-era fight carried over.

I never did Acrylia 1.0 outside of the Ring of Fire and Burrower. Ring of Fire was an amazing fight when it actually worked. I think only Ring of Valor ever ended up doing Inner Acrylia. There was the whole Grimling War raid that never got done much until EQmac years later.

Vex Thal was a huge disappointment outside of the loot. I'll give this point up to the Luclin haters. So. much. trash. The zone was pretty, the loot was awesome, and blinding Eoms were hilarious, but still a piece of shit zone.

Toward the end of Velious, you started to see a return to groupable gear not being terrible with the revamp of Chardok. This continued in Luclin and probably culminated with the revamp of Cazic Thule. Cazic Thule post-revamp was fucking awesome as an exp zone. You got FT2 shoes from Tormax Head? Well, fuck you - I got me FT3 from the Sewers of motherfucking Cazic Thule.

AAs give people progression outside of gear (raiding). This brings people back to Sebilis, Howling Stones, Velks, etc. and returns some of the social aspect to the game. Toward the end of Velious, 60s just AFKd in Thurg/Kael and occasionally raided.

And for the first time in EQ's history, the developers tried to give a fuck about balance. Druids become ok again, rangers stop sucking, paladins get something to do on raids, mages stop being vending machines, necros become a real DPS class, wizards stop sucking in sustained fights, etc.

Luclin, fuck yeah.

luclin fixed alot of stuff for players but was rushed to fast . aas where a great idea bazaar , helped. people with no time or interest to deal with resellers .

[Erasong]

i never understood the hate for cats on the moon but the acceptance of dogs in the earth ( kobolds ), or lizards in the ruins oh wait but not THOSE lizards in the ruins.. these other cooler lizards in these other ruins no one has discovered yet.

[kaev]

i never understood the hate for cats on the moon but the acceptance of dogs in the earth ( kobolds ), or lizards in the ruins oh wait but not THOSE lizards in the ruins.. these other cooler lizards in these other ruins no one has discovered yet.

I suspect that it's not so much hate for cats in the moon as utter disdain for the players who swoon over cats in the moon.

Like everything else in EQ, it's never the horrible decisions the devs made, it's never your own incompetence or unrealistic expectations or willingness to turn a blind eye to the stupid shit your friends/guildmates pull, it's all those other damned nimrods and assholes you have to share the world with that drive most of the emotional reactions. If only those people* weren't ruining everything this would be great!


substitute <TMO> / asians / euros / racists / highschoolers / unemployed trailertrash / twinkers / PLers / two-boxers / uberguilders / carebears / pvpers / bards / druids / necros / whateverthefuckelse

[Xelris]

I want to see this server get all the way to PoP (eventually). I loved PoP.

You'd have to pretty much nuke and repave Plane of Knowledge, but other than that it was a really fun expansion on the raid, lore and group scene.

Luclin wasn't that bad at all. Echoing most of the sentiments of people above me, I'd be fine with the expanded content.

Hell, make it so Dreadlands is the only way in and kill the portals if you're that afraid of it hurting Druids and Wizards. Exile the Bazaar, Burn Shar-Vahl, get rid of horses, remove the need for new models, whatever you need to do to preserve the game, but more content is nearly always beneficial for the game... especially because it gives casual guilds a progression path and things to do in earlier expansions while keeping competetive guilds busy in other crap.

[SamwiseRed]

soulbinders were a good addition, especially during off peak hours. hell on red it can take days to get a bind for a melee.

[pasi]

I never understood the hate for PoK books outside of PvP servers.

Seriously, if Rogean enabled binding in Timorous Deep for a day, half the fucking server would bind at Firepots, and the other half would bitch and moan that they couldn't play that day to get bound.

People want other players to run from Field of Bone to East Commonlands, but they don't want to do it themselves (maybe past the first time).

[Turp_SmokinPurp]

I'm hoping we eventually see AAs in some form. I'm wondering if anyone actually disliked AAs.
Creator's of this server have stated they hate AA. AA's has been deleted an stripped from the server files. 100% for sure never AA's on here. Which is good imo, some AA was nice like wizard crits/rangers etc but it will never happen here.
Velious is soon (i hope) than we will maybe see some custom content further down the road but no luclin.

I guess there's some people that enjoy the people aspect of EC, but I liked being able to PvP (arena in bazaar) while buying/selling.
That would be a cool idea for the custom content later.
A arena in EC...

[SamwiseRed]

I never understood the hate for PoK books outside of PvP servers.

Seriously, if Rogean enabled binding in Timorous Deep for a day, half the fucking server would bind at Firepots, and the other half would bitch and moan that they couldn't play that day to get bound.

People want other players to run from Field of Bone to East Commonlands, but they don't want to do it themselves (maybe past the first time).

truth and i agree, would bind my mage there if it opened.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

considering this was released right before luclin and that the dev's are considering custom content after velious, my prediction is that KEI will be patched in sometime in 2017.

Already penciled it in to my daterunner

[Laugher]

soulbinders were a good addition, especially during off peak hours. hell on red it can take days to get a bind for a melee.

Died around Qeynos while bound in Freeport several times on my red nublet toon lol, once while alt+tabbed fell off the path just inside ek from highpass lmao

soulbinders would certainly be welcome on red in my book haha

[Lisset]

As nice as it was to have KEI, I think that spell was a bad idea. Nobody seemed to need enchanters in their group after that spell became commonplace.


THIS

[Lisset]

I never understood the hate for PoK books outside of PvP servers.

Seriously, if Rogean enabled binding in Timorous Deep for a day, half the fucking server would bind at Firepots, and the other half would bitch and moan that they couldn't play that day to get bound.

People want other players to run from Field of Bone to East Commonlands, but they don't want to do it themselves (maybe past the first time).

Because it's a multiplayer game and some things should take multiple players, like fast travel.

Where PoK is REALLY a travesty is that you don't have to go there the first time by foot. As soon as you get into PoK, the world is 2 minutes away. What used to feel like islands and continents are now just really big rooms in a mansion.

[Tegellan]

100% for sure never AA's on here.

Never say never.. (they have ripped that code out but any code taken I assume can be put back in if they want to)

While I agree it is unlikly.. I honestly believe that after Velious has been out for a year and the population starts to drop due to no further progression.
The option will be to either let the server die or to add in Luclin (custom or not)

I believe the only reason that the population is so high is because of the promise of Velious.. People want to get toons ready to be able to progress thru velious as easy as possible (so they level, gear, tradeskill etc now)

Take away the promise of future content and there is no way the server would maintain 1000 people primtime 3 years after Velious comes out.


My Personal preference is to just keep going with the expansions.. I dont like the idea of custom content. I play this server to relive EQ the way I remember it.. (while this server is not 100% the same it is close enough for me)

I loved Luclin. with the exception of horses (the need for new models).

[pasi]

KEI didn't make Enchanters unwanted in exp groups. From classic to... fuck, I don't even know - enchanters have been a part of the best exp/loot groups. You simply can't go wrong playing a war/cler/enc in EQ groups. Even if you took away KEI, Luclin for Enchanters brought a shitload of new AOE zones and Dire Charm for new/old playgrounds.

Because it's a multiplayer game and some things should take multiple players, like fast travel.


I don't necessarily disagree that the game should require multiple players for fast travel. In fact, I respect players that are immersed in their travels. I'm one of those people who runs pretty much everywhere that doesn't require waiting for a boat. Granted, I usually just auto-run in the direction I need to go and tab out to do something else.

What I do know is that if Nilberg enabled PoK on this server, 99% of the playerbase would be bound there. The same is true of Timorous Deep Firepots. Most of the people who complain about convenient travel would be the people using it - it's the hypocrisy that bothers me when these same people hate on Spires/PoK. People are opposed to other players getting convenient travel, but will gladly take it themselves should the opportunity present itself.

[Gruktar]

I hope that after years of Velious more people will come around to the idea of having Luclin on the server. I personally enjoyed it and think a tweaked Luclin would be better than totally custom content.

Here are a few of the complaints I have seen and some solutions that I think not only deal with the problems, but would be fairly easy to implement by the dev team:

"The bazaar hurts trading by eliminating the human element (bartering, price gouging, etc)": Disable shops in the bazaar. I started playing live during Luclin and I remember the bazaar being broken a lot during my early days. We could just have that be a permanent feature here.

"Paludal allows people to level too quickly and makes classic zones in that level range much less desirable": Modify the ZEM for that zone to bring it in line with classic zones.

"KEI makes enchanters less desirable in groups": Only allow KEI to be cast on players over level 46.

"The spires hurt porting classes (druid/wizard) and made travel too easy": Disable all but 1-2 of the spires, increase the time between spire ports by 5-10 minutes, or both.

"AAs were imbalanced or too overpowered": Re-balance the AAs as needed. Tweak the values or remove/replace the ones that are too overpowered. Lower the exp gain for AA's if needed. There should be enough info out there from the past to determine what needs to be changed.

[Jingleson]

I hope that after years of Velious more people will come around to the idea of having Luclin on the server. I personally enjoyed it and think a tweaked Luclin would be better than totally custom content.

Here are a few of the complaints I have seen and some solutions that I think not only deal with the problems, but would be fairly easy to implement by the dev team:

"The bazaar hurts trading by eliminating the human element (bartering, price gouging, etc)": Disable shops in the bazaar. I started playing live during Luclin and I remember the bazaar being broken a lot during my early days. We could just have that be a permanent feature here.

"Paludal allows people to level too quickly and makes classic zones in that level range much less desirable": Modify the ZEM for that zone to bring it in line with classic zones.

"KEI makes enchanters less desirable in groups": Only allow KEI to be cast on players over level 46.

"The spires hurt porting classes (druid/wizard) and made travel too easy": Disable all but 1-2 of the spires, increase the time between spire ports by 5-10 minutes, or both.

"AAs were imbalanced or too overpowered": Re-balance the AAs as needed. Tweak the values or remove/replace the ones that are too overpowered. Lower the exp gain for AA's if needed. There should be enough info out there from the past to determine what needs to be changed.

I'd love to see AA's eventually, but I don't think Warriors would be too happy seeing everyone else crit.

But a Bard with the Double Attack AA, now that would be sexy.

[Gruktar]

What I do know is that if Nilberg enabled PoK on this server, 99% of the playerbase would be bound there. The same is true of Timorous Deep Firepots. Most of the people who complain about convenient travel would be the people using it - it's the hypocrisy that bothers me when these same people hate on Spires/PoK. People are opposed to other players getting convenient travel, but will gladly take it themselves should the opportunity present itself.

Just because people argue against fast travel doesn't mean they are hypocrites for using it. If a recovering alcoholic goes to a party and is given some free beer, he is going to be compelled to drink it. That doesn't make him a hypocrite for wanting to go to a party that doesn't have any beer.

Hypocritical would be if a player bound at the firepots argued against opening it for other people to bind there, or someone arguing for a one-day-only period where everyone is allowed to bind there, but no one in the future will be able to.

[pasi]

Just because people argue against fast travel doesn't mean they are hypocrites for using it.

I think this is the definition of hypocrite. People who are bound at Firepots for convenient-solo travel, but are opposed to the idea of convenient-solo travel.

If a recovering alcoholic goes to a party and is given some free beer, he is going to be compelled to drink it. That doesn't make him a hypocrite for wanting to go to a party that doesn't have any beer.

I generally try to avoid analogies over the internet, but here goes: There isn't anything wrong for the recovering alcoholic to seek out a party without alcohol. However, that is different than the alcoholic wanting to limit all parties to no alcohol.

The option for an alcohol-free party is still there (you are not forced to use the books and can still use druids/wizards/your feet). The former alcoholic is capable of making his own party without alcohol (PoK/Spires) without sacrificing any other aspect of his party (it doesn't matter how you got to Karnor as long as you got there). It becomes an issue when the former alcoholic wants all other parties (other players not in the alcoholic's party) to not drink alcohol (people using PoK/Spires).

Anyhow, that's my take on the matter. I'm not gonna derail this further than it already went.

[Clark]

Luclin will come out once Velious is completely expended

It has to

[Vohl]

i never understood the hate for cats on the moon but the acceptance of dogs in the earth ( kobolds ), or lizards in the ruins oh wait but not THOSE lizards in the ruins.. these other cooler lizards in these other ruins no one has discovered yet.

Kerrans are original EQ content. I don't have any issue with playable cat-people, lizard-people, dragon-people or so on.

That said, Luclin was like someone grafting Barsoom onto Middle Earth. The concepts in that expansion really didn't work for me.

[Champion_Standing]

Granted, I usually just auto-run in the direction I need to go and tab out to do something else.

Confirmed fully immersed.

[Tikker]

the biggest problem with luclin was just that it wasn't finished when it was released


or even before people were knocking at the doors of vex thall



AA's weren't such a huge deal in luclin cause it was still a long grind to get them, it wasn't until pop where you could get 10-15 a night

Luclin was like grinding lvl 59 over and over

[Vohl]

the biggest problem with luclin was just that it wasn't finished when it was released


or even before people were knocking at the doors of vex thall



AA's weren't such a huge deal in luclin cause it was still a long grind to get them, it wasn't until pop where you could get 10-15 a night

Luclin was like grinding lvl 59 over and over

AE pull groups worked just fine for AAs. These exclude half the classes in EQ, but it was certainly possible to hammer Skyfire flat for AAs several times a night.

[Zeonick]

I personally liked Luclin but that's because I actually quit just before Velious came out and came back just before PoP.

If there ever was progression beyond Velious it would be neat to see:
- Nexus nerfed with only access to Luclin areas to keep druids and wizards in business.
- Bazaar eliminated.
- PC brought into real world ZEM territories.

Pretty sure those things and cats on the moon were the only things that really killed immersion. Wouldn't mind seeing zones like UP and Scarlet Desert again.

If they ever did custom content this would be awesome!

[Arteker]

AA grind for paladin sks bards was hillarius at first they messed up code and we end winning more aa xp per kill than any other class for some weeks.

for the record i maxed aas over 2 weeks of soloing acrylya undeads as paladin with pre nerfed slay undead,

Merodeador the first sk to make full aas made them with his boxed group in pom. the bitch did it in 1 week.

[koros]

100% agree with Pasi's argument about Luclin.

It fleshed out a lot of aspects of the game that weren't fully realized previously. Class balance was pretty damn good at the end aside from mobs having 3 billion ac. Hybrids/druids became decently powerful and wanted, beastlords were fun, necros could land/stack spells, etc. Cats on the moon? Yes kinda dumb, but cat people/lizard people/trolls - it's all fantasy bs anyway.

It also had a large amount of spots for high end single groups to get near (2nd tier) raid quality gear. Examples include CT, burrower in Acrylia, UP, The Va'Dyn, etc. This opened up the game for non-raiders.

It was a pretty cool expansion overall imho.

[Atmas]

I think it's always funny that PoK books get mentioned with Luclin because they didn't come until PoP and it seems like many people who just have disdain for everything post Velious lump it all together.

I personally hated the PoK books because they trivialized travel and as a wizard they diminished one of the main aspects of my class. One of the great things about classic EQ was the sense of a gigantic world in which travel had consequences and really conferred a sense of embarking on a journey. Due to the scope of the world ports really felt like significant magic. Forgive the pun, but when the books came around some of the magic was lost. I have to mention that other than that I felt PoP was the best expansion of my time playing live.

[rixardion]

I think it's always funny that PoK books get mentioned with Luclin because they didn't come until PoP and it seems like many people who just have disdain for everything post Velious lump it all together.

I personally hated the PoK books because they trivialized travel and as a wizard they diminished one of the main aspects of my class. One of the great things about classic EQ was the sense of a gigantic world in which travel had consequences and really conferred a sense of embarking on a journey. Due to the scope of the world ports really felt like significant magic. Forgive the pun, but when the books came around some of the magic was lost. I have to mention that other than that I felt PoP was the best expansion of my time playing live.

I agree with this completely! I would be 100% for adding PoP with no clickable books in or out except for PoT of course. The only way in to PoK should be a port from a player.

Edit: I would go farther and say put the only book to PoK on the aviak island in oot! Hahaha yes!

The amazing thing about all this is that's a true possibility. When verant/sony would make changes that broke porting classes for instance, there was no going back, you were just stuck with the shit they created. In hindsight, we all feel that the books were a bad idea and something can actually be done about it before it's even released now (if it ever is).

[Aerar]

Im pretty confident that 2 things will NEVER happen on P99.

1 - AAs will never exist - GMs have stated as much

2 - Luclin and Beyond will never exist, create far more problems than it solves and the community would never rally behind either one like they do for Velious. Keep in mind that these wouldnt even be discussed for several years after Velious even comes out.

[fadetree]

I remember the 'uzi' incident early on in luclin when range weaps had NO delay....was hilarious, rangers were murdering everything.

[Kender]

Edit: Forgot to mention wizards getting TLs and familiars too, great additions to that class.


Wizzies get translocates in velious

[beyondinfin]

I've gotten KEI once from a GM. Also got a shit ton of other insane buffs, that all lasted like an hour. Sucks to think it was a one time deal, but my guildies and I made it count.

[Soandso]

AA's wont happen.
Luclin def won't happen.
Pop won't happen.

[cs616]

It baffles me there are people who prefer the EC Tunnel over the Bazaar, other for the sake of keeping the server "classic". :confused:

I like the classic feel of EC, but one thing I definitely miss is playing in the arena in the Bazaar. Some of the most fun I ever had playing EQ was impromptu "king of the hill" style PvP fights while browsing items in the Bazaar. It seemed like no matter what time of day it was I could roll into the Bazaar and kill some time both buying/selling and messing around with whatever people were hanging out by the arena.

The buying mechanic in Bazaar I can take of leave. It definitely reduced the interaction between players buying and selling, but since I really don't play the commerce game it isn't something that ever really bothered me.

I just want a commerce zone that has an arena!

[cs616]

Also, on the topic of Nexus / Travel, I feel like people tend to group Nexus and PoK together too often. PoK gave you instant access to something like 15-20 zones. Nexus on the other hand gave you access to 4 port locations, with each port triggering at a 15 minute interval, meaning travel through the nexus could take anywhere from a few seconds, up to 30 minutes based on how lucky your timing is. That is a HUGE difference.

Travel through the Nexus reduced the burden of travel in such a small way that in my opinion, it hardly changed the game at all. 90% of people I played with never used the nexus because finding a druid / wizard was still easier and faster. Nexus was only really an option I used when I had time to kill and could afk until the spire ported me. PoK definitely trivialized travel and made the expansive virtual world a much smaller place. I think most of us agree that it had a negative impact on the game.

Basically I think Nexus was a decent mechanic that didn't really impact the game all that much, while PoK was a horrible mechanic that trivialized travel in the game.

[Feanoir]

I didn't mind the Vah Shir, the Luclin models, or the Bazaar really...what i hated was that instead of people gathering all over Norrath, ie Gfay, EC, Rivervale, HHK, everyone went to nexus when they weren't grouping. Essentially everyone was either running to a nexus portal, in the nexus, or grouping (usually in Luclin zones because they dropped good items and had good exp) it condensed everyone into a few zones and really killed the immersion aspect of the game. It made most of Norrath a ghostown. The town next to nexus had anything a player needed....ports out to each continent. guild trainers, tradeskill supplies....there was no more use for all the towns, and it killed the social vibe. Not only that but it really irked me that every race/class was represented there...i mean what the heck kind of town has every race coming together to be friends when a 15 minute port away they're still at eachother's throat....its just messy nonsense to me

[Feanoir]

Also there are impressive zones, then there are zones that are just big for fucks sake..... I really don't enjoy spending 25 minutes running along a wall to get inside katta casteleum or however you spell it....all that shit coulda been smaller....i liked the building details and layouts..they just could have made the cities and buildings much more reasonable

[Vidar]

Will we ever see it again? I seem to remember this spell in particular being patched in before Luclin actually went live? That and virtue. I know it's not a popular opinion, but i believe Luclin to be everquest's pinnacle, though the lvl 46 restriction on kei and virtue should have existed from the get go.

Luclin brought the nexus where porting and buffing business was absolutely booming! It brought AAs which were a fantastic reason to keep playing once you hit max level! It brought the bazaar which really helped the availability in terms of tradeskill and cheaper items. The nexus portal locations were spread out just right, to not make the world seem smaller. There were still reasons to use a boat.

Edit: Forgot to mention wizards getting TLs and familiars too, great additions to that class.

Anyway, just wondering if anyone has any idea how far into velious we will be
going

Bazaar = Crap! Lazy people who cant trade like the bazaar. it was ahorrible addition to eq.
Nexus sucked. period.
New player models looked ridiculous. How they screwed that up i dont know. to this day if i play live all new player models are off.

/rant off

[Splorf22]

I like the concept of AAs. In fact I think if this server had them, our endgame would be in much better shape because people would be working on them rather then leveling a thousand alts.

100% agree with Pasi about the whole travel thing. I don't even travel really: my enchanter is bound at the pots and my warrior just hammers to OT and gets a port (35p, you feel that Jeremy?! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuhPPOXnyKo ).

There are about 10% of people that love spending time in EC buying and selling. The 90% (including me) definitely would rather just have shit happen.

[Arteker]

I like the concept of AAs. In fact I think if this server had them, our endgame would be in much better shape because people would be working on them rather then leveling a thousand alts.

100% agree with Pasi about the whole travel thing. I don't even travel really: my enchanter is bound at the pots and my warrior just hammers to OT and gets a port (35p, you feel that Jeremy?! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuhPPOXnyKo ).

There are about 10% of people that love spending time in EC buying and selling. The 90% (including me) definitely would rather just have shit happen.
EC damages the economy badly

[Dirtnap]

I didn't mind the Vah Shir, the Luclin models, or the Bazaar really...what i hated was that instead of people gathering all over Norrath, ie Gfay, EC, Rivervale, HHK, everyone went to nexus when they weren't grouping. Essentially everyone was either running to a nexus portal, in the nexus, or grouping (usually in Luclin zones because they dropped good items and had good exp) it condensed everyone into a few zones and really killed the immersion aspect of the game. It made most of Norrath a ghostown. The town next to nexus had anything a player needed....ports out to each continent. guild trainers, tradeskill supplies....there was no more use for all the towns, and it killed the social vibe. Not only that but it really irked me that every race/class was represented there...i mean what the heck kind of town has every race coming together to be friends when a 15 minute port away they're still at eachother's throat....its just messy nonsense to me

You just described this server, but instead of the nexus its east commons.