What if Variance was gone or changed?

[karanastorm]

So why not just allow FTE and do away with variance? It makes no sense for variance as it only helps bat phone guilds who have no life (not an attack at those who have all the free time in the world on their hands) to be on whenever stuff is up. Variance also adds to the aggressions of P1999 community for casual raid guilds.

Do we want to go into Velious with variance when FTE is in place? If you have variance then we do not need FTE, do away with FTE so other guilds got a shot when something pops.

Seriously we do not need variance anymore. People poop sock and most guilds know when a target is up, it just makes it more difficult for casuals to get a chance at any raid targets if they can't get on during work or early a.m. targets.

How to make it semi variance while not being current variance. This idea may give the best chance for everyone. You take out variance as it is now and put in the old system of knowing the timers on raid targets, except you add one small front variance that does not random in any way so that the first spawn will be known timer and the next time it pops will be it's fixed variance +days. It rotates every kill.

So for example if the above is confusing. Raid target is 7 day timer and dies, the next timer will be the fixed variance timer of +days (however many fixed days they make each raid target) then after that pop dies it goes back to normal timer 7 days. Rinse and repeat.

Just trying to help the raid scene issue with some ideas. :o

[Furniture]

Personally I do not think there is a problem. If I'm not going to put in as much time and effort as the bigger raid guilds I don't think I deserve the same loot. This game isnt based around awarding everyone with equal chances and catering to your real life schedule. If you have a steady job that prevents you from putting in the amount of time and effort as the bigger guilds then unfortunately you will fail when competing with them. There is nothing wrong with that. If you are a causal raid guild then there is nothing wrong with jumping in sky/hate/fear and raiding like they do already.

Simulated repops however I think are a great idea (as long as they are not too frequent) and is a way to allow some casual guilds to get some targets while still awarding the effort and time commitment put in from the bigger guilds who take the normal spawns.

[Ele]

So why not just allow FTE and do away with variance? It makes no sense for variance as it only helps bat phone guilds who have no life (not an attack at those who have all the free time in the world on their hands) to be on whenever stuff is up. Variance also adds to the aggressions of P1999 community for casual raid guilds.

Do we want to go into Velious with variance when FTE is in place? If you have variance then we do not need FTE, do away with FTE so other guilds got a shot when something pops.

Seriously we do not need variance anymore. People poop sock and most guilds know when a target is up, it just makes it more difficult for casuals to get a chance at any raid targets if they can't get on during work or early a.m. targets.


Why do away with FTE? We have variance now and require FTE rulings to determine which guild in the race to the target has the rights to engage.

There is no doubt that variance is a huge drain of player's resources and time, but those players don't have to spend it the way they do in the current system, but choose to in order to get the targets. It becomes a game of escalation and attrition.

[karanastorm]

Personally I do not think there is a problem. If I'm not going to put in as much time and effort as the bigger raid guilds I don't think I deserve the same loot. This game isnt based around awarding everyone with equal chances and catering to your real life schedule. If you have a steady job that prevents you from putting in the amount of time and effort as the bigger guilds then unfortunately you will fail when competing with them. There is nothing wrong with that. If you are a causal raid guild then there is nothing wrong with jumping in sky/hate/fear and raiding like they do already.

Simulated repops however I think are a great idea (as long as they are not too frequent) and is a way to allow some casual guilds to get some targets while still awarding the effort and time commitment put in from the bigger guilds who take the normal spawns.

This argument is flawed. Since when do casual guilds not put in the same time and effort? Casual guilds have to work harder, the players stay up little past than what they should for work and what not. Time invested does not mean better rewards on P1999 my friend. Also the game is 14 yrs old! Most of you guys were not even working then, just young guns playing video games for fun and had all the time. Why should one particular force be better just because they have no life?

So again your argument is flawed. Casual players show up, we raid and try to as best we can. The time investment = rewards argument is just stupid for P1999. Since most people can just buy whatever they want from EC and not ever raid. It's said how RMT has changed the dynamics.

Another point to say is classic EQ did not stay in classic EQ Kunark very long. So as expansions came out it opened up room for people. RMT was non existent really except account sales occasionally on eBay, but people just didn't have 100's thousands of plats to buy countless end game things to gear toons and avoid raiding. You actually had to raid and do quests to get gear. Velious was out before Kunark got really locked down for most guilds, so you had people still needing Kunark while doing Velious.

[karanastorm]

Why do away with FTE? We have variance now and require FTE rulings to determine which guild in the race to the target has the rights to engage.

There is no doubt that variance is a huge drain of player's resources and time, but those players don't have to spend it the way they do in the current system, but choose to in order to get the targets. It becomes a game of escalation and attrition.

Yes I know, that was kinda a sarcastic bash at variance. No FTE would been a hell of a lot funner I think. At least on classic my server some fights up till early Velious were like this until GM's and game rules changed it.

[skipdog]

This question has been addressed countless times by the staff. There have been countless threads over this very question.

But one thing I don't agree with is your statement, "Since when do casual guilds not put in the same time and effort?"

Are you kidding me? Um, since forever!!! You are also claiming that RMT was non existent on live? Are you kidding me? More blatant lies!

We all know that it isn't the best to be sitting on Kunark for so long, and the crazy thing is that variance actually seems to support what you want(more time and effort being rewarded). It is a way to avoid a 200 person poopsock for every monster spawn and actually be able to reward the guild that DOES put in the most time and effort.

I don't think you are going to find many here that will agree with your position that the casual guilds are putting in the same effort as the guilds consistently getting raid mob kills. It just sounds like you have no idea what you are talking about.

[karanastorm]

This question has been addressed countless times by the staff. There have been countless threads over this very question.

But one thing I don't agree with is your statement, "Since when do casual guilds not put in the same time and effort?"

Are you kidding me? Um, since forever!!! You are also claiming that RMT was non existent on live? Are you kidding me? More blatant lies!

We all know that it isn't the best to be sitting on Kunark for so long, and the crazy thing is that variance actually seems to support what you want(more time and effort being rewarded). It is a way to avoid a 200 person poopsock for every monster spawn and actually be able to reward the guild that DOES put in the most time and effort.

I don't think you are going to find many here that will agree with your position that the casual guilds are putting in the same effort as the guilds consistently getting raid mob kills. It just sounds like you have no idea what you are talking about.

RMT was not really part of Classic to Kunark, you had some account sales on Ebay sure but the RMT scene was not in force and many if you asked them back then would of said wtf is RMT. You just did not have it mainstream back then. Just because you may of heard of it doesn't mean it was mainstream to be known by all or popular. RMT in EQ basically surged towards the mid to end of Velious era. POP really made RMT take off.

Casual raid guilds put in the same effort per raid and tracking as hardcore guilds do. If you call bat phones being time invested then by all means go ahead. But if a guild can have a couple poop socking while the rest of the guild does whatever and or offline to be called for a raid target does not mean they invested more time. Simply means they took advantage of technology and having to not be working etc.

Raids are not that long anymore, they are quick so time invested is same for everyone who has a good raid guild, even casual raid guilds can surprise you hardcore players.

Not everyone in a raid guild is going to be sitting for days at a raid target waiting for it to pop, oh wait; they don't!

[Furniture]

"Since when do casual guilds not put in the same time and effort?"

Casual guilds do not batphone or show up at raid bosses when they spawn. That is the distinction between a casual raid guild and FE/IB/TMO etc. This is a time and effort commitment put in by the players who have the desire AND the circumstances in their real life schedule to be able to put in the playtime to get what they want. For the sake of the argument you can call these guilds "hardcore guilds".


Why don't casual guilds do this? Because many of them have schedules that means they can not be on call to jump into norrath at any moment. Which leads me to:

"the players stay up little past than what they should for work and what not." "Also the game is 14 yrs old! Most of you guys were not even working then, just young guns playing video games for fun and had all the time. Why should one particular force be better just because they have no life?"

There you go. If you can't log in when a mob spawns, then you need to accept it. This is how its been on the server since the start. Obviously you have a schedule that prevents you from committing to a hardcore guild. You are playing a videogame that persists when you are not there. Just because a majority of people can not commit like that does not mean there is a problem. Not everybody needs best in slot raid boss gear.


"Time invested does not mean better rewards on P1999 my friend."
Time is the most important thing to be successful in classic eq. This is a grind heavy mmo where you grind for nearly everything, not an online fps shooter.


These threads have showed up for years and its the same rehashed bullshit.

If your guild can not show up at mobs with numbers and can not batphone, then you need to accept it.

[khanable]

No variance just makes it a battle of 200 autofire keyboards

[Ele]

No variance just makes it a battle of 200 autofire keyboards

But you only have to show up 5 minutes before the mob is scheduled to spawn!

[Furniture]

And btw- if your "casual guild" is showing up in full force at all times of the night/day and you still are losing FTE then you need to look at what the opposing guild did vs what your guild did and strategize. Not just TMO is getting mobs these days especially with the FE/IB thing going on.

[karanastorm]

As I said casual guilds do in fact put in the same effort, they also bat phone but not everyone is able to. Ask any casual raid guild here they have bat phones. But their guilds are not 100% people who have no lives. If you want to get into the argument of time = investment then you should look outside of P1999 because this is not the place where that really makes for truth. You can keep saying it but it is not a correct statement about P99. It may have been on live when Velious came out but not on Kunark, no way no how. Batphones do not = time investment, period. The only one investing time is the poop socker's and they get rewarded pretty well I might add.

[kotton05]

add a prevariance, the extended windows leave me baffled, but if they made it where the mob could pop again shortly after death, could leave a time where it pops and other guilds have moved targets leaving it open or at least a race to it.

[karanastorm]

No variance just makes it a battle of 200 autofire keyboards

Okay then why not have a variance front end that is random and the next spawn timer is back to fixed time. The other guilds would have to know the time killed on the variance part to show up on the fixed timer. Anything but this variance now is better. At least agree with that? In classic it was the same, you had hundreds show up for raid targets like Trakanon etc. Velious was worse, we had over 300 show for Dain one night and the lag was incredible but fun.

[fullmetalcoxman]

Back to classic please. I wasn't really around at the time, but wasn't variance implemented because the "15 man raid spawn camp" rule caused people to start poop socking?

[khanable]

Or just leave variance alone (maybe remove extended-extended-extended window crap, just have one single window)

Put in simulated patch repops, broadcast the server reset 15 minutes before it happens

[Yaolin]

Variance only helps bat-phone guilds with a shit load of people. For those of us that don't have 3..4..5... LvL 60 toons logged out at raid targets getting these mobs just isn't possible. Just take a look at how many different guilds have actually gotten an attempt at hitting a dragon in the last 6 months, I'm going to say that about 90%+ of the attempts on Gods and Dragons have gone to just FE/IB and TMO. If there was either a vary small variance or none at all then all guilds would have to do is find out the spawn timer once and then their guild could actually decide if they have the time to put the effort in just to get a small shot at a mob, as of right now most of us have no fucking shot because we have better shit to be doing then sitting around in EJ from 6pm-Midnight 4 days in a row hoping that the dragon pops. If you think variance makes sense you're a fucking idiot. With no variance the big guilds still get a LARGE majority of the kills, but at least other guilds will have a chance. This whole can't beat them join them theory is hilarious.

Also to the people talking about "effort"..... yea 10-20 minutes to kill a dragon..... yea that's real "effort". Try taking a couple of groups of high lvl 40s and low lvl 50s that have no experience to do planes, that's effort. Also, dragon and gods do actually take effort if don't have a zerg and aren't fully geared out already. You're a dumb ass. Logging in a toon for 20 minutes isn't effort. Having a real job, a family, an active social life outside p99, and actually attempting to get a dragon/god kill on p99..... THAT TAKES EFFORT.

~Yao

[Barkingturtle]

You can't claim to put in as much effort as other people and then deride them as "no-lifers" for their commitment.

You just can't.

[Furniture]

Everything you can achieve on this server can be done with enough time whether its levels or items. I'd like to hear some kind of argument against that.


If your guild shows up at raid targets and batphones and still arent getting any targets, i'm guessing your vaguely hinting that you didnt have enough people with: "But their guilds are not 100% people who have no lives."

So whats the problem? Obviously theres something that the other guilds are doing that your guild isnt which is making you fail.

If your guild is showing up at all times of the night/day against all mobs and doing the same exact things of hardcore guilds, why are you calling your guild a casual guild then?

Your argument flip flops, you say that your guild cant get a mob because only hardcore guilds have the players who "have no lives" and are lobbying to get variance removed. Yet you say that your guild does attend every mob repop in full force with a batphone and you are still losing mobs to IB/FE/TMO every time.


If your guild shows up at every mob full force with a batphone on each mob then congratulations you are putting in the same time and effort commitment as hardcore guilds and you can now consider your guild a hardcore guild. If this is true and you are still losing to the other hardcore guilds then your guild is doing something wrong and you need to figure out how to strategize to win and not try to lobby to get rules changed to accomodate your real life schedule (which you claim has no bearing on the issue whatsoever because you are still attending every mob repop)

[Iumuno]

How about restricting raid mobs respawns to prime time?

[Ele]

How about restricting raid mobs respawns to prime time?

Whose prime time? repops on patch days on Live were often dominated by Asian/Euro/Aussie guilds since it was their prime time usually when the servers came back up.

[Furniture]

A big issue id like to see changed is the stupid VP rules. That is the only instance where a guild simply can't compete because of trains.I've never been there myself but it allows a guild in vp to train anyone trying to compete which would be illegal in other zones. It also happens to be the best loot so its like a slap in the face to the other guilds who legitimately want to contest those spawns.

[skipdog]

Variance only helps bat-phone guilds with a shit load of people. For those of us that don't have 3..4..5... LvL 60 toons logged out at raid targets getting these mobs just isn't possible.

Yaolin, I like you buddy. We used to chat a bunch ingame. Don't take my opinions personal(as many do) but I just don't agree with your viewpoint. Yes, those guilds are getting rewarded for putting in enough time to have multiple 60 toons logged out at various raid targets. So yes, variance helps guilds that put in more time and effort than other guilds. I think this is a good thing.

Just take a look at how many different guilds have actually gotten an attempt at hitting a dragon in the last 6 months, I'm going to say that about 90%+ of the attempts on Gods and Dragons have gone to just FE/IB and TMO. If there was either a vary small variance or none at all then all guilds would have to do is find out the spawn timer once and then their guild could actually decide if they have the time to put the effort in just to get a small shot at a mob, as of right now most of us have no fucking shot because we have better shit to be doing then sitting around in EJ from 6pm-Midnight 4 days in a row hoping that the dragon pops. If you think variance makes sense you're a fucking idiot. With no variance the big guilds still get a LARGE majority of the kills, but at least other guilds will have a chance. This whole can't beat them join them theory is hilarious.

First of all, why must you bash the other guilds for putting in the effort? Going straight to the 'anybody who puts in more effort than me must have no life' argument is just one of the most simple-minded things I hear on these forums. You also brought up how 'we have better shit to do than sit in EJ for 6 hours/night for 4 days in a row'. You do realize that only one person needs to track right? And that that person gets rewarded and that people take turns? The act of tracking mobs does not mean that 'all members of that guild have no jobs/lives/etc' and I think even you realize that. You really think having 200 people stand on a monster spawnpoint to have the zone de-sync upon spawn and have the winner be the guild who won the FTE lottery is fun? I mean, there isn't even a real fight that goes on. The monster just kind of drops over while people lag like crazy and half the zone DCs. If that is how you want to get this loot, then fine. But there is no effort there, unless you think 30 minutes to 'show up' is effort. It sure can't be very fun and it removes the 'get rewarded for playtime and effort put in' aspect of killing raid mobs.

Also to the people talking about "effort"..... yea 10-20 minutes to kill a dragon..... yea that's real "effort". Try taking a couple of groups of high lvl 40s and low lvl 50s that have no experience to do planes, that's effort. Also, dragon and gods do actually take effort if don't have a zerg and aren't fully geared out already. You're a dumb ass. Logging in a toon for 20 minutes isn't effort. Having a real job, a family, an active social life outside p99, and actually attempting to get a dragon/god kill on p99..... THAT TAKES EFFORT.

~Yao

I'm sure taking inexperienced and underleveled players to the planes is difficult. Nobody is arguing that. It simply isn't the same amount of effort and time it takes to get multiple chars to 60 and to keep them camped in the correct locations. It also doesn't take meaningful effort to 'show up' and be amongst the 200 person pile hoping to win a loot lottery without a real fight even taking place. I also think you underestimate the kind of 'effort' that leadership has to put in for a guild to keep its members motivated enough for the kind of effort required to lock down raid mobs on this server.

[Iumuno]

Whose prime time? repops on patch days on Live were often dominated by Asian/Euro/Aussie guilds since it was their prime time usually when the servers came back up.

I guess you'd have to use p1999 demographics. It would ensure that respawns are timed when most people are online rather than the other way around.

[fullmetalcoxman]

Just because people are willing to put the time and effort in doesn't justify making such a change.

If you changed every epic quest to "kill a million decaying skeletons", would it be ok just because some people still put in the time to get their epics?

[zanderklocke]

I just want my epic finished for the least amount of work possible. Can someone make this happen through rule changes or kindness?

[fullmetalcoxman]

If you want to keep variance, would it be possible to link mobs together to spawn on the variance timers? IE, everything on timer A would spawn at the same time, everything on timer B would spawn at the same time, etc.

It would encourage mobilization and decrease tracking burden. And people would still have to put in the time and effort(or is it just time?) that some people here seem to love so much.

[myxomatosii]

You can't claim to put in as much effort as other people and then deride them as "no-lifers" for their commitment.

You just can't.

Thou canst not kill that which hast no life.

[jpetrick]

I don't like variance but your whole original post is fucking retarded.

[Furniture]

If you want to keep variance, would it be possible to link mobs together to spawn on the variance timers? IE, everything on timer A would spawn at the same time, everything on timer B would spawn at the same time, etc.

It would encourage mobilization and decrease tracking burden. And people would still have to put in the time and effort(or is it just time?) that some people here seem to love so much.

I kind of like this idea, I'm trying to think of an argument as to why this wouldn't work right but I can't.Smaller guilds would probably flock to what they can kill like Draco, maestro, etc. and higher end guilds would stick with trac, vs, etc and be on call to mobilize when they know another guild failed. It would also introduce competition for spawns between guilds who normally wouldn't compete with each other. Not to mention guild alliances and diplomacy between guilds would be a lot of fun. Probably wouldn't happen here though but its a good idea and would make the raid scene more fun and exciting.

[dav]

Variance prevents poopsocking though.

Right guys?

Totally worth it.

[karanastorm]

I don't like variance but your whole original post is fucking retarded.

I made it just for you. Retards understand other retards.

[Furniture]

Also in order for any one or two guilds to really dominate they'd have to split their guild up to fight seperate fights and really have to strategize moreso then before

[fullmetalcoxman]

No point in changing current raid scene without first removing training from VP

Uh, why? Do people want to kill VP dragons without putting in any work?

[Splorf22]

Uh, why? Do people want to kill VP dragons without putting in any work?

Good point. We should allow training in Sebilis too, so that people can't kill Trakanon in 5 minutes.

[stonez138]

But you only have to show up 5 minutes before the mob is scheduled to spawn!

The 15 man rule should be reimplemented.

[Glitterati]

The 15 man rule should be reimplemented.

15 man rule was the stupidest shit ever. This is how it worked, mob dies, guild stays at spawn for 7+ days till it respawns. Rinse and repeat.

[element08]

Why not just decrease the spawn times so people can go after whatever when they have enough people together?

[HeallunRumblebelly]

15 man rule was the stupidest shit ever. This is how it worked, mob dies, guild stays at spawn for 7+ days till it respawns. Rinse and repeat.

Ah, but you forgot the updated 15 man rule with afk check!

/shout AFK Check!

...screenshotting 11 replies...

IB takes control. Repeat x10 cuz lols.

[theguyy]

The problem with variance is simple. It doesn't punish poopsocking, it rewards it.

[Llodd]

Or just leave variance alone (maybe remove extended-extended-extended window crap, just have one single window)

Put in simulated patch repops, broadcast the server reset 15 minutes before it happens

If the idea of simulated patch days was to give some of the less hard core guilds a chance at end content, a 15 min timer won't cut it. just anohter exercise in batphones.

~Should be broadcast the day before or more just like back on live. Classic.

[Llodd]

I guess you'd have to use p1999 demographics. It would ensure that respawns are timed when most people are online rather than the other way around.

Make it the same patch time as on live, with a little variance. Shits classic right.

[Origin]

No training in VP is our panacea.

[Lostprophets]

Wtb classic rotations without variances. ;)

- Elmiminates Socking
- Elmininates Griefing
- Everybody that can kill stuff gets a shot at something instead of "black market 1mil pp Epic MQ's"
- GM's can have less stressful raid environment to deal with (someone breaks rotation guild gets banned/suspended...no gm headaches).
- Guilds don't have to waste away their lives tracking for a spawn.
- Do away with static spawn click-fests.
- and most important It WAS Classic on many servers.

[Destron]

Let's not forget that a large majority of the toons used to poop sock raid targets were purchased/traded while it was still allowed. That alone leaves the rest of us at a huge disadvantage.

[Swish]

Let's not forget that a large majority of the toons used to poop sock raid targets were purchased/traded while it was still allowed. That alone leaves the rest of us at a huge disadvantage.

^^

[Autotune]

Should just remove variance and GMs/Guides should step back and let whatever happens happen. Everything would work itself out in a month or two.

Not to mention, all those accounts/characters TMO bought up would become mostly useless after the first server repop.

[theguyy]

Should just remove variance and GMs/Guides should step back and let whatever happens happen. Everything would work itself out in a month or two.

Not to mention, all those accounts/characters TMO bought up would become mostly useless after the first server repop.

Worst idea ever. Whoever has the most wizards wins basically....AKA TMO anyways lmao.

Classic rotations was as fair as you could get a non instanced server. That was exactly how it was done on my server, with about 1/1000th the amount of raid issues that p99 has.

Variance was created to deter poopsocking but in fact rewards it more then ever because the guilds willing to poopsock the longest get the kill now. Which is really no different then how it was before, the same 1-2 guilds getting every raid target that matters.

[Splorf22]

The issue is that killing P1999 mobs does not involve huge amounts of skill.

1. Get your actual semi pro core together: 1 tank and 2 clerics who don't randomly AFK, 2 good monks. One of these people should be familiar enough with the encounters to act as your raid leader.
2. Recruit 50 zerglings. Make them farm enough pp to buy 20k of resist gear and level up to 55+
3. Destroy anything outside of VP

Variance or no variance, as long as only one target is up and people are 'competing' the competition will be either based on luck or 'effort' aka time spent at the computer. Also Velious will make things a bit harder but basically you just need to change step 1 into 5+ clerics and 2+ mod rod mages.

What the server needs is a combination of repops and possibly tokens/anti-poopsocking code but (puts on tinfoil hat) obviously the admins are too busy raking in TMO's RMT money (takes off tinfoil hat) dealing with the dos and having normal lives to implement it.

[Elements]

So why not just allow FTE and do away with variance? It makes no sense for variance as it only helps bat phone guilds who have no life (not an attack at those who have all the free time in the world on their hands) to be on whenever stuff is up. Variance also adds to the aggressions of P1999 community for casual raid guilds.

Do we want to go into Velious with variance when FTE is in place? If you have variance then we do not need FTE, do away with FTE so other guilds got a shot when something pops.

Seriously we do not need variance anymore. People poop sock and most guilds know when a target is up, it just makes it more difficult for casuals to get a chance at any raid targets if they can't get on during work or early a.m. targets.

How to make it semi variance while not being current variance. This idea may give the best chance for everyone. You take out variance as it is now and put in the old system of knowing the timers on raid targets, except you add one small front variance that does not random in any way so that the first spawn will be known timer and the next time it pops will be it's fixed variance +days. It rotates every kill.

So for example if the above is confusing. Raid target is 7 day timer and dies, the next timer will be the fixed variance timer of +days (however many fixed days they make each raid target) then after that pop dies it goes back to normal timer 7 days. Rinse and repeat.

Just trying to help the raid scene issue with some ideas. :o

Hi October 2013 account. Either welcome to the server you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about OR nice troll thread. Not sure which.

[baalzy]

Non-classic idea that I doubt would ever get implemented but will throw out there anyways:

Keep all mob pops as they are now (or hell, revert to non-variance I don't care). Add an NPC that sells 'tokens' which can be used to do a special pop of the raid mob in question for the person/guild who purchased it. Each mob would have a different price and it would allow the more casual guilds chances at the same encounters without interruption and provide a plat sink to control inflation.

[JayN]

i need moar loots please, could you change X and X to fit with my schedule more accordingly? btw if you dont do what I say the server will die! kthxbye

[Oakengroves]

Wtb classic rotations without variances. ;)

- Elmiminates Socking
- Elmininates Griefing
- Everybody that can kill stuff gets a shot at something instead of "black market 1mil pp Epic MQ's"
- GM's can have less stressful raid environment to deal with (someone breaks rotation guild gets banned/suspended...no gm headaches).
- Guilds don't have to waste away their lives tracking for a spawn.
- Do away with static spawn click-fests.
- and most important It WAS Classic on many servers.

Agreed. I played on one sever dominated by a domineering poop-socking guild and several aspiring rivals. The drama was insufferable. I played on another server that used a rotation system. The rotation server had a far better community and end-game. Rotations are a much more enjoyable experience.

I have no intention of raiding on P1999 but wanted to comment on how much better rotations make a community. Regardless of whatever opinion someone may hold, it's difficult to understand how people can be passionate or protective about painfully boring, obscene camping/spawn mechanics that do little more than rotate the proverbial mouse wheel for alt-gearing.

[Thulack]

Agreed. I played on one sever dominated by a domineering poop-socking guild and several aspiring rivals. I played on another server that used a rotation system. The rotation server had a far better community and end-game experience. It's a much funner experience.

+1

[Lostprophets]

Agreed. I played on one sever dominated by a domineering poop-socking guild and several aspiring rivals. I played on another server that used a rotation system. The rotation server had a far better community and end-game experience. It's a much funner experience.

+2

[Roku]

Agreed. I played on one sever dominated by a domineering poop-socking guild and several aspiring rivals. I played on another server that used a rotation system. The rotation server had a far better community and end-game experience. It's a much more enjoyable experience.


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Also, glad you corrected "much funner" before you got flamed for it.

[Andervin]

I've been here almost a month now and after reading stuff like this I have ZERO aspirations of ever raiding on p99. Just not worth the hassle. Sad but I've made my peace with it and will continue to play, for now. It would've been nice to check out all those raids I couldn't get in on back when... for the SAME reasons. lol

It's kind of ironic just how classic this server is. You guys have even managed to re-capture the nuanced have v. have nots argument from 1999. lol

[Oakengroves]

Liberation comes when you realize that you define what it is to "have" and what it is to "have not." Most of the highly successful raiders I knew during classic, myself included, focused so much on gear, leveling, and power that we sacrificed many in-game friends and endured, boring crappy gameplay conditions.

People usually remember fun, social activities from EQ or zany adventures gone awry. I remember those over completing my epic, clearing NToV for the first time, and a number of end-game related triumphs.

I feel like Big-Bossing a poopsock out of someone's hand, throwing it to the ground, and telling them that it is time to live.

[Oakengroves]

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Also, glad you corrected "much funner" before you got flamed for it.

Hyper editing for the win, baby.

[fullmetalcoxman]

Don't change anything because current rules benefit me and my play style

[heazels]

POP really made RMT take off.
What made RMT take off was when they allowed character moves to new account and you could buy the trilogy for next to nothing and move a character to it then sell it.

[Iumuno]

Make it the same patch time as on live, with a little variance. Shits classic right.

Depends on what you want to debate about. Making it classic doesn't seem like the issue the OP wants to address.

If you want to make raid content accessible to most players, it has to be available when most people are online. I don't think speeding up spawn timers is a good solution, as competition for content is very much classic, and not exclusive to raid content either.

There is however not much competition if the playerbase that can be on when 90% of the rest of the population isn't, therefore has access to 90% of the spawn windows. And a respawn time at 2pm EST (classic EQ patch day) is right when most people aren't on.

[Autotune]

Worst idea ever. Whoever has the most wizards wins basically....AKA TMO anyways lmao.

Classic rotations was as fair as you could get a non instanced server. That was exactly how it was done on my server, with about 1/1000th the amount of raid issues that p99 has.

Variance was created to deter poopsocking but in fact rewards it more then ever because the guilds willing to poopsock the longest get the kill now. Which is really no different then how it was before, the same 1-2 guilds getting every raid target that matters.

Wizards can't FD, just train them till they are dead.

[Psionide]

Love how the best and simplest solution, a rotation, is always ignored and never discussed. I guess it doesn't even matter if it wasn't ignored because as long as you have people who openly state that their only enjoyment left on this server is denying other people their enjoyment it won't happen.

[Autotune]

Love how the best and simplest solution, a rotation, is always ignored and never discussed. I guess it doesn't even matter if it wasn't ignored because as long as you have people who openly state that their only enjoyment left on this server is denying other people their enjoyment it won't happen.

It has been discussed countless times, which is why it's now ignored.

Welcome to p99 btw!

[Llodd]

Depends on what you want to debate about. Making it classic doesn't seem like the issue the OP wants to address.

If you want to make raid content accessible to most players, it has to be available when most people are online. I don't think speeding up spawn timers is a good solution, as competition for content is very much classic, and not exclusive to raid content either.

There is however not much competition if the playerbase that can be on when 90% of the rest of the population isn't, therefore has access to 90% of the spawn windows. And a respawn time at 2pm EST (classic EQ patch day) is right when most people aren't on.

Yeah partially tongue in cheek as I'd benefit more. But still, I dont mind if it were at a time where most of the playerbase would benefit so long as there was some variation for euro/asian players.

Regardless, convincing the staff seems the hardest part.

[Swish]

Posting in a variance thread...ahaha!

[Psionide]

It has been discussed countless times, which is why it's now ignored.

Welcome to p99 btw!

Ah damn you got me you were here a long time before me, June 2010, and I got here pretty late in.....June 2010......

As for your argument that rotation has been discussed well that must be a joke because it was never seriously discussed or was it ever implemented outside of Sky or Ragefire. I'd like to know when their was a CT or Trak rotation or Nagy or Vox or Inny or on and on and on. Then again your position aint surpising and then again why am I arguing with someone who doesn't even play on this server anymore?

[Glitterati]

Ah damn you got me you were here a long time before me, June 2010, and I got here pretty late in.....June 2010......

As for your argument that rotation has been discussed well that must be a joke because it was never seriously discussed or was it ever implemented outside of Sky or Ragefire. I'd like to know when their was a CT or Trak rotation or Nagy or Vox or Inny or on and on and on. Then again your position aint surpising and then again why am I arguing with someone who doesn't even play on this server anymore?

When the server opened in 2009 there was a GM enforced rotation of Naggy/Vox and PoF. Once PoH opened the GMs stopped enforcing rotation. Back when we had a rotation there were only 2 guilds who were doing raid content, with a server population of 300 max.

There's just not enough pie to feed all the hungry mouths p99 brings in. Of course GMs don't want to babysit us. The server brings in what, 1000 people a night now. This is still classic EQ, cutthroat and hardcore.

[JayN]

how is this not RnF :D


TBH with w/e they are doing to stop brute force attacks on login seems to work well enough; almost to the point you're are either there poopsocking the mob or you dont get it

[Gecko]

There's just not enough pie to feed all the hungry mouths p99 brings in. Of course GMs don't want to babysit us. The server brings in what, 1000 people a night now. This is still classic EQ, cutthroat and hardcore.

Another solution is to dump the Red server and the upcoming Teams Red server and have 3 blue servers that people actually want to play on, instead of two extra worthless PVP ones...

It is puzzling as this 'private server' claims to want to be 'classic' but variance has no place in the equation. Also, classic had heavy GM involvement to ensure play nice was adhered to for raids. I remember this first hand on the Nameless.

This community isn't that big. It should be rather simple to ensure that things are run fair and one small group isn't hoarding all the food North Korea style.

[Buriedpast]

Casuals and casual guilds asking for variance removal, will not work.

Because Variance has nothing to do with casuals, or casual guilds.

Variance is fucked, and retarded. Nobody in the high end likes it or wants it, and every well thought out solution is ignored by GMs.

As a side note, no, no casual puts as much effort in to this game as the top end guys. You have no concept of what it takes for certain people to be at the top end if you think you're doing it now.

[Autotune]

Ah damn you got me you were here a long time before me, June 2010, and I got here pretty late in.....June 2010......

As for your argument that rotation has been discussed well that must be a joke because it was never seriously discussed or was it ever implemented outside of Sky or Ragefire. I'd like to know when their was a CT or Trak rotation or Nagy or Vox or Inny or on and on and on. Then again your position aint surpising and then again why am I arguing with someone who doesn't even play on this server anymore?

There was a Trak rotation, it happened about 2 years ago now.

There have been discussions on rotations, also in the past, they never go anywhere because GMs won't enforce them on people who don't want them.

The only time rotations happen is because the guilds who raid want them and set them up. It's happened a few times, but nothing on a grand scale to give everyone easy access to P99 raiding. If you have been around and active like you seem to suggest in your post, you'd know this, but you don't... so again, WELCOME TO P99!

When the server opened in 2009 there was a GM enforced rotation of Naggy/Vox and PoF. Once PoH opened the GMs stopped enforcing rotation. Back when we had a rotation there were only 2 guilds who were doing raid content, with a server population of 300 max.

There's just not enough pie to feed all the hungry mouths p99 brings in. Of course GMs don't want to babysit us. The server brings in what, 1000 people a night now. This is still classic EQ, cutthroat and hardcore.

This is the exception to what I posted, even though I technically don't think it should count against what I said. As the rotation never what people here talk about wanting and is more of the rotations that have been set up privately between a few guilds.

[Glitterati]

I think we do agree that there's just too many guilds with too many high end players for a rotation to work now at this point. In the beginning there were 2 dragons, one god, one demi-god and phinny to rotate between 2 guilds that were 30-40 people each. If there were a rotation put in today the server would go stale, there would be no progression, each guild would get like, 1-2 kills a month. It would be painfully boring.

[Clark]

No variance just makes it a battle of 200 autofire keyboards

[Gecko]

As a side note, no, no casual puts as much effort in to this game as the top end guys. You have no concept of what it takes for certain people to be at the top end if you think you're doing it now.

Those of us who killed Trak in Kunark on LIVE pre Velious and played 12+ hours a day without spoilers know better than anyone in EMU land ever will. I'm here for nostalgia, mostly, but it's just puzzling to me why the admins won't enforce policies similar to LIVE.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

Those of us who killed Trak in Kunark on LIVE pre Velious and played 12+ hours a day without spoilers know better than anyone in EMU land ever will. I'm here for nostalgia, mostly, but it's just puzzling to me why the admins won't enforce policies similar to LIVE.

Only a few servers had serverwide rotations.

[Gecko]

They didn't need them because of the speed of expansions and the bugs and issues with Trak. However, there still was strict GM intervention to ensure guilds played nice and respected each other, even with the most cutthroat of competition.

The two things that puzzle me most are why there isn't a similar policy here, and also why only one <blue> server and one empty <red> with plans for another red? P99 screams for more blue, which makes me wonder the reasoning for not adding at least a second, if not third. It's what people want to play.

[Derubael]

Yes, let's remove variance and turn every pop into a race to see who can fit 300 people on the spawn and spam target attack macros the fastest.

Sounds like fun. Might as well just /random every FTE on every mob.

[Gecko]

Yes, let's remove variance and turn every pop into a race to see who can fit 300 people on the spawn and spam target attack macros the fastest.

Sounds like fun. Might as well just /random every FTE on every mob.

How's about we actually administer the server like live and allow a rotation of the guilds that have the power to kill it so the hundreds of players who are the actual community can actually have a chance. No wait, screw them and let's do the easy thing and let 35 or so people who bought dozens of accounts mess up the experience because survival of the fittest obviously helped make EQ what it is today.

[Derubael]

How's about we actually administer the server like live and allow a rotation of the guilds that have the power to kill it so the hundreds players who are the actual community can actually have a chance. No wait, screw them and let's do the easy thing and let 35 or so people mess up the experience because survival of the fittest obviously helped make EQ what it is today.

Rotations aren't classic. Ask around. Only a handful of live servers had Raid rotations, and none of those were set by the staff - they were player chosen.

There's plenty of fun raids to do if you're 'just a casual'. I find it funny that you think we're doing the 'easy thing' here, when doing what you're requesting and setting a rotation would be far easier on the staff in all respects.

[Gecko]

I was in classic raiding in 99 on Nameless. I don't have to ask around. I killed Trak pre Velious there. Our server GM made sure we played nice.

The crux of the issue is this server is nothing like classic. We had three guilds who could kill Trak. You have many massively geared alts, most from RMT, lined up to kill endgame mobs all with under 32k hps. I understand it's a headache to actually administer a server, but really the solutions put in place for the endgame are terrible here. You can't compare it to LIVE, and you should have a better mousetrap built here.

The fact that resources are being pushed for a new red server really makes me wonder if the admins are that ignorant of the endgame bottleneck, or actually approve of it?

[Derubael]

I was in classic raiding in 99 on Nameless. I don't have to ask around. I killed Trak pre Velious there. Our server GM made sure we played nice.

The crux of the issue is this server is nothing like classic. We had three guilds who could kill Trak. You have many massively geared alts, most from RMT, lined up to kill endgame mobs all with under 32k hps. I understand it's a headache to actually administer a server, but really the solutions put in place for the endgame are terrible here. You can't compare it to LIVE, and you should have a better mousetrap built here.

The fact that resources are being pushed for a new red server really makes me wonder if the admins are that ignorant of the endgame bottleneck, or actually approve of it?

I bow to your wisdom, sir, for you clearly know more about both competitive raiding AND what's going on with our dev team than anyone on the staff. Since your server had a rotation, it should be that way here too, for no other servers existed on live. Thank you for letting us know what we are doing wrong :)

[Ele]

Yes, let's remove variance and turn every pop into a race to see who can fit 300 people on the spawn and spam target attack macros the fastest.

Sounds like fun. Might as well just /random every FTE on every mob.

Happens with variance.

[Derubael]

Happens with variance.

Just at VS. And I try to throw a sock party whenever he goes into extended window.

[Elements]

I was in classic raiding in 99 on Nameless. I don't have to ask around. I killed Trak pre Velious there. Our server GM made sure we played nice.

The crux of the issue is this server is nothing like classic. We had three guilds who could kill Trak. You have many massively geared alts, most from RMT, lined up to kill endgame mobs all with under 32k hps. I understand it's a headache to actually administer a server, but really the solutions put in place for the endgame are terrible here. You can't compare it to LIVE, and you should have a better mousetrap built here.

The fact that resources are being pushed for a new red server really makes me wonder if the admins are that ignorant of the endgame bottleneck, or actually approve of it?

The issue is that EQ is a game of contested content and when people don't win they whine and cry for changes to make it easier for them.

[Gecko]

I bow to your wisdom, sir, for you clearly know more about both competitive raiding AND what's going on with our dev team than anyone on the staff. Since your server had a rotation, it should be that way here too, for no other servers existed on live. Thank you for letting us know what we are doing wrong :)

You missed my point completely.

My opinion has nothing to do with 'my server' since LIVE wasn't sitting in Kunark for years log jammed. EQ was made for a quick transition to the next expansion. This servers problems are related to being on ROK for as long as it has, the RMT of many, many accounts, and the instagibbing of endgame bosses and VP due to these things being well known and spoiled a decade ago with zero risk. It also has nothing to do with 'competitive' gaming. EQ is about time and gear. Live did not have issues because expansions ensured those at the top tier had fresh content, while the casuals slowly worked their way through older stuff.

I have read many very good proposed solutions to the content lockdown by people who have no need of said gear, except as a form of control. It's just baffling to me that P99 has not added one or two more blue servers, but I guess that same guild could easily lock down three servers due to the design of EQ which was never meant to have 750 level 60s in Kunark, many owned by the same person. At least a fresh server would spread things out and allow that content to be experienced by more people. The red environment is not a good answer as EQ was never really designed for PVP and is no DAOC.

Perhaps the server admins really do have some sort of financial deal, in which case you guys are definitely a lot smarter than I am. More power to you. If, however, you are here for the community then I guess I'm just curious why you haven't tried to do something for those who weren't fortunate enough to experience this content in 99-01?

[Soandso]

[QUOTE=Derubael;1198452] Since your server had a rotation, it should be that way here too, for no other servers existed on live. QUOTE]

You know what EVERY server DIDN'T have? Variance and FTE shouts. So that point is kinda moot. Rotations are more classic than either of these and their simply is no way to refute that. People can talk all they want about effort and whatever bullshit but when it comes down to it this is a video game and it doesn't require that much effort. It's funny how everyone was so against boxing and account sales, MQ'ing etc because it, "destroys community", which is especially funny because this community sucks for the most part.

Theirs plenty of level 60s on this server who will never see their epic while alt number 4 or 5 gets theirs and that simply sucks. I'm sure the usual "OHH YOU WANT HANDOUTS WHILE I WORKED FOR MY ACCOMPLISHMENT" argument will follow but guess what if you need to cockblock other people for your "interwebz accomplishment" you sir are a loser. So many of the original good players left this place long ago and it sucks because all the tools stay because they get their joy out of cockblocking other people. Just look at all the new players who are like "I have no intent on raiding here" well that is rediculous and they prolly will wind up leaving too when they get tired of camping Frenzy for the 50th time.

tldr Spread the love I thought we were here for "nostalgia and community" and instead people take this shit WAYYYY too seriously.