New to Server - War, SK or Pal

[Krah]

Greetings,

Just joined P99 and after trying a couple ranged classes for something new, realized I much prefer plate dps/tanking (played a war main on tunare and SK on prexus from 99-03). Guess old habits die hard....

Been creeping the forums this morning digging up info on all 3 tank classes and am struggling to decide. Trying to avoid an alt, and just want to focus on one.

Already I'm leaning towards war as I actually like being gear dependent and group dependent.....but I do play nights and might only have an hour or 2 sometimes to play, so soloing would be nice.

Any thoughts on server needs?

What are gear prices like? Easy for a war to stay somewhat current, or at least decent enough to get by?

Is paladin dps as bad as I'm reading?

I've never gotten a class to 60 on live, may main made it to 57 (war) and alt sk hit 52 (Troll)....so the XP penalty may be a factor.

I would like to complete my epic (goal of mine) and realize the paladin of the 3 is easiest. How tough, or bottlenecked is war/SK?

Any help is appreciated folks, thanks!

[DrKvothe]

Bards, rangers, and monks can also tank just fine in a lot of small, high dps groups. When I'm duoing on my shm, I don't notice much of a difference between various melees in terms of survivability.

I wouldn't go warrior. Bad at initial aggro grab, and bad at pulling. Pally gets stuns and root, SK gets FD and snare. Both grab aggro fast, and both are reasonably inexpensive to gear. SK get an insta-cast self-invis clicky, which you won't be able to afford for a while, and pallies get an exp res at endgame.

Personally, I'd roll a bard and just build your own groups as you go. You can make a solid duo, trio, or bigger with just about any combination of classes, you can solo kite entire zones if you want, etc. There are all sorts of places where pulling quickly and safely is much more important than actual damage mitigation. You can amaze everyone with your l33t bard tanking skills.

[Elements]

If being a tank is your goal and server need is a concern id go war. I pulled and tanked on my war with crap gear from level one even into the 50s. Was soloing for exp with decent efficiency into the 30s and with bad efficiency even at 59. Agro issues can easily be overcome and no one ever complains about inviting a war tank to the group because of an exp penalty. In fact for most warrior races you bring a bonus. For more info see Sakuragi's warrior guide on the wiki. Of note is all the cool spell clickies you have access to down the road.

Several guilds on the server can help you complete the warrior epic. The big bottleneck is the green dragonscale which can also be bought for considerable plat. There isn't really a "need" for paladins on the server. Sks can do some cool pulling/training on raids at high levels but there WILL be times when groups shun you as a hybrid due to your xp penalty.

That said sks and pallies can make raid trash clearing more efficient with snap agro but are usually delegated to a crappy dps role anyway since there are usually warriors around to tank adds.

For gearing your war focus on hp>ac then stam and other stats like str and dex. In reality gear is largely irrelevant for levelling in groups. Haste and weapons will make the biggest impact so try to save up for an fbss and something like dual lammies. Yak clubs are cheap and arguably the best bang for you buck tanking weapons from 37-50 and by then you should be making couple hundred pp per hour on average even in kc. A suit of bronze transitioning into crafted will serve you well along side some 5ac 55 hp rings.

[Krah]

Several guilds on the server can help you complete the warrior epic. The big bottleneck is the green dragonscale which can also be bought for considerable plat. There isn't really a "need" for paladins on the server. Sks can do some cool pulling/training on raids at high levels but there WILL be times when groups shun you as a hybrid due to your xp penalty.

That said sks and pallies can make raid trash clearing more efficient with snap agro but are usually delegated to a crappy dps role anyway since there are usually warriors around to tank adds.



Is the group shunning really that prevalent?

[Pint]

Is the group shunning really that prevalent?

No, if you are a competent sk or paladin any group seeking a tank is going to be happy to have you. In my experiences no one cares enough to worry about hybrid penalties. My experiences my not reflect others though, I have a 60 paladin for reference.

[pharmakos]

my warrior was my first char on the server. it went okay... luckily a lot of generous people helped me out with gear early on.

i recently started a paladin on red, though, and its my first paladin. gotta say -- paladin is really fun. :) if you got a warrior and an SK both towards 60 back in the day, maybe give paladin a shot for change of pace?

edit -- also, imo paladins are the best soloers of the three, if that is a concern if yours. since mana regenerates way quicker than HP, paladins' heal spells greatly reduce downtime. plus the Lull/Soothe line makes it possible to (slowly) solo dungeon crawl.... way more efficiently than FD splitting on an SK.

[mtb tripper]

I'd go warrior if I were you man, seems like that's what your looking to play

[Skittlez]

Paladin all the way. Your a freaking tank that can HEAL your self. That's right, I said you can heal your self! Way less downtime than a warrior and pretty close to the same except you get spells. I played Paladin as my first toon on this server and I haven't had a problem with anything! Almost level 42 as I type this.

[Kutsumo]

I think paladin gives you a lot of room to stand out if you're creative with your gameplay. You can pull, tank, root, off-heal, stun lock and once you get 45 can mana-free heal between pulls (albeit slowly).

With an untwinked warrior, you will struggle with agro. Even a well geared warrior is praying for RNG or asking casters to root at the start of a fight. However, you have potential to do way more DPS than the others and at the very top end of gear/progression warriors are better tanks for both raids and groups.

[Tuljin]

as a paladin you can lull, sword and board/stun caster mobs, root and peel mobs during pulls, and heal yourself and others (also with lay on hands).

from my experience it seems most casters are unfamiliar with the eq 101 of rooting off/peeling multiple mobs as the puller brings them to camp and on my paladin i just take care of it myself. i also played warrior a bunch and, despite being vicious, i was always thinking to myself "man i wish i had some magical powers" while i'm getting beaten on by 3 mobs and the casters in the group are frightented to get any type of agro at all and aren't instantly casting root the second they see multiple mobs coming to camp lol

paladin gear is super cheap and the dd stun proccing sword of morning is an excellent weapon. at high lvl you get DA and 90% rez which is awesome. if you are a skilled player that can interrupt casting mobs and you are good at tanking/mob placement you can really shine on paladin. despite the proven lower numbers of DPS etcetc vs a warrior, you can contribute to your group in other ways by saving your healer mana by knocking out nasty spells and using blind and stun to help your party members who manage to get agro.

really paladin has way more options when it comes to keeping yourself and a dungeon group alive. no matter how much damage you deal, the 15-45 minute stop in xp bar movement when shit hits the fan cannot be made up for. i also dont like the feeling of being completely helpless when i pull a few mobs and the (usually) not-so-good casters in my group aren't properly rooting mobs for me so i can peel them.

despite what the sperglords/neckbeards say, eq is about way more than dps and number-crunching!!

[williestargell]

I agree with everything Tuljin says, but most of the server would still rather not have their hybrid penalty that's doing little dps in their group. Especially if you're a fatty SK and have double exp penalty people will shy away.

If you are looking for pickup groups, go with a warrior. If you have friends that will accept you in the group regardless of the penalty go Paladin cause they rock and only get cooler in Velious.

[pharmakos]

paladins are also able to solo better, and build groups around that

[reppa]

1: run to FV or Kaesora and get a bind
2: run to KC
3: get full set of jarsath scale armor + trash loot + bags 500p worth at least.
4 buy 2x 55hp rings
5
6 profit

[Tuljin]

i camped out in steamfont mountains the other nite, i woke up the next day and all my underpants were missing

[Vadd]

Already I'm leaning towards war as I actually like being gear dependent and group dependent.....but I do play nights and might only have an hour or 2 sometimes to play, so soloing would be nice.

Any thoughts on server needs?

What are gear prices like? Easy for a war to stay somewhat current, or at least decent enough to get by?

Is paladin dps as bad as I'm reading?

I've never gotten a class to 60 on live, may main made it to 57 (war) and alt sk hit 52 (Troll)....so the XP penalty may be a factor.

I would like to complete my epic (goal of mine) and realize the paladin of the 3 is easiest. How tough, or bottlenecked is war/SK?

Any help is appreciated folks, thanks!

I am a 60 Warrior. The downside for warriors is that, in this era and on this EMU, you will find yourself frustrated over agro procs at times. You'd wanna go for max DPS in groups until u can get some stun or ykesha procs. You'll find it a bit hard to hold agro 50% of the time when grouped with some strong dps (i.e. epic'd rogue alts), but they should know how to evade, fd, etc. Root agro also helps when available. Warriors are strong DPS for solo and groups, only down side is that you cant heal yourself when soloing.

I think paladins (even with "low" dps) can solo fairly well if you are hunting in the right areas. With a Ghoulbane i'd say you can solo lvl 20-40 easily enough. You also get heals, buffs, cancel magic, root, lull, etc. In group scenarios, you can pull some massive agro with blind, stun, etc.... and Root if all else fails.

Never played an SK, but id assume their solo capabilities are powerful as well with their arsenal of debuffs, taps, snares, fear, fd, etc. Always appeared to be a fun class.

Paladin is probably the easiest epic to acquire. Warrior epic is bottle-necked at this time by the acquisition of Green Dragon Scales. SK's require drops from... CT/Inny/Both? Sev and planar gods are highly contested atm.

Just my input.

[Xer0]

No, if you are a competent sk or paladin any group seeking a tank is going to be happy to have you. In my experiences no one cares enough to worry about hybrid penalties. My experiences my not reflect others though, I have a 60 paladin for reference.

Can be. Ive been turned away more than once as a DE SK. But once you get into your 20s-30s+ people dont mind as much, they just need a tank :P

[Xer0]

paladins are also able to solo better, and build groups around that

What's better for soloing than snare and fear? in a wide open zone, nothing.

However IMO, sk is the way to go. Easiest thing in the world to do aggro, and your dots start to add up mid level.

I just feel SK get the best utility spells.. Invis, Invis vs Undead, Resist cold and Disease, Feign Death,.. very self sufficient, though lifetaps are not great for healing you, let's not pretend paladins heals are great prior to lv40 :P

[pharmakos]

^ yeah, if you want to be a pansy and avoid dungeons, sure SKs are better =p

[Tuljin]

A big advantage of Paladin is stun and root. If you have decent dps in your party a stun on a running mob is enough to keep it from getting away, and if hes running too far you can always root him to stop him. Stun is also helpful if for some reason a caster in your camp is getting agro, you can toss out a stun, give the caster a chance to get away, and the mob will come agro you. You can also park mobs and cc very well with root, to the point where you don't need anybody else in your group to do it for you. Paladin also has an awesome snap agro spell with Flash of Light.

Both Pal and SK are excellent at splitting up camps, with lull and FD, respectively. The issue with SK is that without stuns he doesn't have the same caster mitigation ability as the Paladin. Since the FD patch, caster mobs can still get in some decent hits when you flop, which isn't always the best thing to happen. A Paladin can wreck caster-heavy camps and can get away with healing himself with the right group composition, especially when you get Superior Healing.

High lvl, Paladin gets DA, heals as well as a shaman or druid, and also gets 90% res.

Really it depends on your play style. IMHO single target/DD stun is one of the most underrated and overlooked abilities in the game by most players. It seems like nobody has seriously played a class that gets single target/DD stuns and learns to use them well. Clerics mostly just sit on their ass and heal and do absolutely nothing else, and very few people play Wiz and Pal seriously in high level dungeons. Ill take heals, stuns, root, and lull before snare and FD anyday.

[Varren]

I love playing a paladin. I think there's just so much utility in the class. Sure, you don't get as much dps as an sk, but tanks aren't really meant to be dpsing most of the time anyhow.

Stuns and roots make life so much easier, not to mention being able to aggro without causing damage and breaking mez (with flash of light). Then of course there's the healing and the group-saving LoH, which is just the extra icing and the extra extra icing on the paladincake.

The only thing about sk that I really wish paladins had was some sort of invis. Getting into and out of a dungeon can be sort of rough, as well as travel through higher level evil areas.

[Tecmos Deception]

People always talk about SK DPS. But really, where does it come from? They can't fire off DoTs for DPS on every fight or they'll oom even with a chanter around. Their pets do laughable damage until 50+, and SKs often don't even use their pets because they're pulling right? They're melee skills are hardly going to make a difference compared to a paladin's. Ebon mace is a pretty awesome weapon, but paladin epic is infinitely easier to obtain and about the same damage. I guess SK races have innately better melee stats, especially compared to non-dwarves?

They CAN do more DPS than a paladin by burning mana, but they can't really do it when they're in a tanking role over an extended period of time right?


I really like my SK. Snares, dots, lifetaps, pets, feign, instant invis, ivu. Lots of tricks and fun in the spells SKs get to supplement getting to beat stuff up. I do definitely wish I could root (and stun with more than just slam/bash) though... pallies have that goin on.

[falkun]

FD > Lull. But that's Classic (http://www.afterlifeguild.org/Thott/bard_pulling.php).

[Pint]

Another point to make about hybrid penalties.. No one ever turns away the iksar monk with a 44% xp penalty.