Which class gets the most respect for being good at their class?

[megman87]

Was wondering which class you all give props/respect to when you see them playing their class better then most people? For example, a Cleric who never lets anyone in the group die, an Enchanter who never miss's a mez, a bard who always has 4 songs up etc.

Which class in your opinion gets the most respect and a great reputation for being good at what he/she does?

[mmiles8]

People who play their class well and don't expect a cookie for it.

[VincentVolaju]

A Ranger that out tanks/aggros an SK in a group

[Daywolf]

Has always been clerics, at least on live.

[Barkingturtle]

I never got more compliments than when fulfilling CC on my bard.

[Nocte]

I'd say enchanter. If a good chanter can keep mobs mezzed before it whacks a caster, and can do it without dropping half their own health bar in the process, they are what I consider a good chanter.

Same goes for bards that keep 4-ish songs twisted that vary given the situation (not just blasting mana song, regen, and haste the entire time).

Same goes for pullers that can find that good spot to duck out of the fight early enough to bring a new mob, but not so soon that they aren't doing their part for DPS.

Rangers that don't die.

Rogues that use Evade as often as it is available and not just when they get agro.


As for clerics, not letting people die (aside from their own mistakes) is kind of part of the job. I'd say a good cleric might manage his/her mana so that they aren't low every 3rd pull, but that also depends on the rest of the group not being booger-eating chuckleheads, too.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Anyone who takes accountability for protecting the people they're grouping with from dying/wiping, even at the expense of their own death.

[Phallax]

It really depends on the player.

But for the most part a good bard, i mean really good, is rare.

[nalkin]

bard obv

[Reiker]

Bard
Monk
Enchanter
Shaman

In about that order. Those classes are a lot easier to suck at than others. Playing a cleric is fucking easy breezy, I don't know why they need praise.

[RKromwell]

Aye, a well played Bard is a thing to behold.

[renegadeofunk]

So if I wanted to be a well-loved, unique snowflake, I'd start a bard? I was leaning toward enchanter as my first toon here, but you guys are starting to convince me otherwise... Is weaving 3 songs really more impressive than all the CC an enchanter is capable of?

[Tseng]

Druids. When I click that port button, people are like "DAMMMMMMMN, you're pro."

[Reiker]

So if I wanted to be a well-loved, unique snowflake, I'd start a bard? I was leaning toward enchanter as my first toon here, but you guys are starting to convince me otherwise... Is weaving 3 songs really more impressive than all the CC an enchanter is capable of?

It's more than just pressing buttons consecutively. A good bard knows when to mez, when to charm, when to add in beneficial songs, how to pull well (which incorporates all the basics of pulling such as avoiding adds, keeping a good pace, knowing exactly what the group can handle and how quickly, when a break is needed, etc).

[renegadeofunk]

I see what you mean... I think I'm sold. I'm definitely aiming at the most difficult class to play. When I started in vanilla EQ I was a mage and only played that class up through Kunark and about a month into Velious. It was fun when I was younger, but now it seems like too simple a class... summon pet, put on damage shield, pet attack and use one of your 2 DD spells.

Also, <3 Xenogears.

[Feather]

Terrible Bards are everywhere. A good Bard is rare and should be treasured.

[Chicka]

It's more than just pressing buttons consecutively. A good bard knows when to mez, when to charm, when to add in beneficial songs, how to pull well (which incorporates all the basics of pulling such as avoiding adds, keeping a good pace, knowing exactly what the group can handle and how quickly, when a break is needed, etc).

Given your previous derogatory quote about clerics: It's more than just pressing buttons consecutively.

[Tronjer]

A good maintank who can position, keep aggro and stay alive during a boss fight.

[Omnimorph]

I'd say a good bard is easier to notice than any other class.

[Chicka]

Really, anyone who shows exceptional ability in their class gets respect. Classism is for people who follow the herd, not for the people who figure shit out. Which would you want respect from? I think that's the bigger question - at least if it really is an ego thing for you.

[Jeice]

Bard, Monk, Mage for summoning num nums

[Grimfan]

I think a good druid that can keep up buffs, off heal, do damage, and leave the fight to grab another mob in outdoor situations is pretty exceptional. It might not be "hard" to be an excellent druid, but if you manage yourself appropriately for every situation you can really become an excellent addition to any team.

Or you can just go solo to 50, yeah that works too.

[Destruction]

Most monks don't know how to pull, so I'm going to go with monk.

[Overcast]

Given your previous derogatory quote about clerics: It's more than just pressing buttons consecutively.

Yeah. It is about... 3% pressing buttons, 30% agro/hate management (healing too fast - bye) and 67% mana management.

Get a bad cleric - and it will become obvious REAL fast, heh.

[Reiker]

Being a bad cleric is the same as being a bad any class. If you suck at EQ, you suck at EQ. There aren't the intricacies that are involved in say FD pulling for example. Aggro/mana management is something that should come quickly with experience, but playing a bard, FD pulling, etc is more of an art that requires a lot of experience in a large number of situations.

[erasser]

A good enchanter and bard can defiantly be noticed in group fights. However, to be a good enchanter for raids, all you really have to do is keep people buffed. It's fairly simple.

I had a lot of experience in oldschool raiding and being the first on the server to do stuff, and I think monks and clerics had a ton of responsibility. When you are pulling in a zone and you dont even know what you are pulling, that is a lot of skill. To literally figure out the correct way to pull is a masterful skill when you deal with some of the expansion raid situations.

[xplodr]

I had a lot of experience in oldschool raiding and being the first on the server to do stuff, and I think monks and clerics had a ton of responsibility. When you are pulling in a zone and you dont even know what you are pulling, that is a lot of skill. To literally figure out the correct way to pull is a masterful skill when you deal with some of the expansion raid situations.

I wonder how much thought actually went into making things up the way VI did. I mean, did they space mobs a certain way on purpose to make pulling a specific way the only way, or was it hodge podge and the monks/bards had to figure it out to make any sense out of things.

[Overcast]

Being a bad cleric is the same as being a bad any class. If you suck at EQ, you suck at EQ. There aren't the intricacies that are involved in say FD pulling for example. Aggro/mana management is something that should come quickly with experience, but playing a bard, FD pulling, etc is more of an art that requires a lot of experience in a large number of situations.

Well - a cleric in a 'normal group' can be pretty dry.

But on boss mobs - in raids... it can be very 'edge of the seat'. Clerics who don't pay attention are bad - that sums up 95% of bad clerics.

It drove me NUTS at people missing their turn on CH Chains - of course, sometimes they would get agro - etc..

A good cleric team can make or break big boss fights, if they can recover from loosing a cleric or whatever...

But yeah - in terms of overall complexity - a well played Bard is one that deserves respect.

[guineapig]

I think the most difficult classes to master in no particular order are:

Enchanter
Bard
Warrior
Monk

I think when you are extremely good at those classes it stands out and gets noticed.

Other classes really have to do some pretty amazing out of the norm things to get noticed either because their utility in a group setting is limited or it's just a simple job function.

Reasoning:

Paladins and SKs have a very easy time managing agro when compared to warriors due to their spells.
Rogues basically just dish out damage and evade to avoid agro
Wizards... mcuh the same as rogues
Mages and necros: with a few exceptions their job in the group is limited to damage dealing. They can be called upon for crowd control occasionally which is when you start to see differences between the good and bad players.

(Stand out necros will also use mez, snare, root mana syphon, twitch and their limited heal spells. When you see necros doing all this in a group setting without being asked to, you should take notice.)

Rangers: Rangers do have some great utility but are often discriminated against for not being the best at anything. They have it rough simply based on common opinion.
Shaman: Tons of great things to add to groups and can even tank in a pinch. However they are often relegated to just buffing and slowing which doesn't often garner much praise.
Clerics: In a group setting their role is often extremely limited. You either keep people alive or you don't. Not to say that their aren't great clerics, but again they often don't get recognized as such.
Druids: Same as the above 2. In groups they simply don't get noticed for greatness.


These are just my opinions based on my years of playing in groups.

Enchanters, Bards, Warrior and lastly Monks tend to get the most praise for being awesome at their jobs.

[Barkingturtle]

Enchanters, Bards, Warrior and lastly Monks tend to get the most praise for being awesome at their jobs.

I understand they position the mob, but other than that what does a warrior do? Wait for procs expertly?

[Phelp]

A good maintank who can position, keep aggro and stay alive during a boss fight.

This one, as everyone wants to be the main tank but only the best usually get the job.

[guineapig]

I understand they position the mob, but other than that what does a warrior do? Wait for procs expertly?

I listed warriors because of all the tank classes they have the hardest time keeping agro and have very little utility.

Knowing when to taunt (instead of mashing taunt), knowing when to bash or slam for interrupts. Later on using disciplines. Switching weapons when needing certain procs to deal with adds if there is no CC available (for example AoE procs). And of course positioning for spells etc.

Yeah, it's not rocket science, I played a warrior on live up to level 66 myself. But good warriors do get noticed. That's what i felt this thread was about which is why I mention them.

[Phelp]

I understand they position the mob, but other than that what does a warrior do? Wait for procs expertly?

Good warrior can make a crappy healer look ok, by maintaing aggro from other classes that dont know how to evade or stay off aggro. Make a bad pull with no cc recoverable as they by time for the cleric to camp. Lots of little things. Picking up adds before the cc does when its beating on a healer or even the enchanter.

[Barkingturtle]

Right on, I've never played a warrior, but I always just read about them being so proc-reliant. It's good to know there's more to it than just gear.

[Dantes]

Bards. I've been in several groups where a bad pull would have resulted in a wipe, casters are asking "Should I gate," but the bard steps in to mez all of the mobs and we can buy our time while the rest of the group recovers mana so we can get through the fight without casualties. To top that off, bards who can pull are awesome. I was just in a Guk group last night with Dopesound, one of the most efficient groups I've been in. He chain pulled and crowd controlled the entire time, all I had to do was select targets and taunt. Easy mode!

Shaman are great too, because they make me statistically awesome.

[erasser]

I wonder how much thought actually went into making things up the way VI did. I mean, did they space mobs a certain way on purpose to make pulling a specific way the only way, or was it hodge podge and the monks/bards had to figure it out to make any sense out of things.

From my experience, it seemed like most high end raid zones there were specific paths and timings for each mob. In order to successfully pull 1 mob at a time, you had to perfectly hit the mob when it was in a certain location. Sometimes it would take 30 minutes to pull a mob just because there might have been 2-3 pathing in different directions and you had to wait till they were all gone and that little opening showed itself. The monks had to really pay attention and know exactly when to do it.

When you're talking about new zones that no one has been in, pulling was basically educated guesses. You weren't sure what you were pulling or if anything else was nearby. One mistake by a puller could result in hours of corpse retrievals and re-clearing of zones. One pullers mistake could make a 4 hour raid into an 8 hour raid. That is a lot of responsibility and it takes a lot of skill to not rush pulls and keep the guild safe.

[guineapig]

Right on, I've never played a warrior, but I always just read about them being so proc-reliant. It's good to know there's more to it than just gear.

Sadly gear is still extremely vital but yes, there is more to it. I remember chain smoking back when I was leveling up my warrior doing LDoN hard dungeons with people I didn't know. It could get pretty nerve wrecking when you are actually trying to do everything just right. Impressed a few people and got invited to tank a pick up raid in PoKnightmare for my efforts.

That was a long time ago... I would probably suck now.

[Cars]

I don't think people should overlook the praise the knight tanks get. It is really easy to be a shitty paladin or a shitty SK. I play a Paladin and I get praised all the time for tanking the way I do and now I can log on for like 5 minutes and I usually get between 2 or 3 tells right out the gate inviting me to various groups. I understand that from the healers prospective having a warrior as a meat shield to utilise CH's it makes sense, but as the chanter or bard or the damage classes it must be nicer to have a class that interupts almost every spell cast by mobs due to stuns and bash, not to mention a back up healer who can root mobs in a bind and pull solo with the lull line of spells. We dont have to wait for taunt to pop cause of blind/stun and its a rare day indeed that I lose aggro on the mobs I pull. Pally's might not be "Mr.Raid" but they are definitely not a class to be overlooked in group scenarios. i don't play an Sk but I assume they are pretty similar in dynamics.

[Filwen]

Not much love for the Wizards. =p

[guineapig]

I don't think people should overlook the praise the knight tanks get. It is really easy to be a shitty paladin or a shitty SK. I play a Paladin and I get praised all the time for tanking the way I do and now I can log on for like 5 minutes and I usually get between 2 or 3 tells right out the gate inviting me to various groups. I understand that from the healers prospective having a warrior as a meat shield to utilise CH's it makes sense, but as the chanter or bard or the damage classes it must be nicer to have a class that interupts almost every spell cast by mobs due to stuns and bash, not to mention a back up healer who can root mobs in a bind and pull solo with the lull line of spells. We dont have to wait for taunt to pop cause of blind/stun and its a rare day indeed that I lose aggro on the mobs I pull. Pally's might not be "Mr.Raid" but they are definitely not a class to be overlooked in group scenarios. i don't play an Sk but I assume they are pretty similar in dynamics.

Totally agree with you. There is a huge difference between a great paladin and a meh paladin. They just don't seem to get noticed as much as most people tend to concentrate on managing agro and none of the other stuff (which is what comes easiest to the knight classes). It's a shame really.

[Daywolf]

Not much love for the Wizards. =p
Well, when I had my ranger on live, my friend played the wizard class. Great damage, but high aggro so I had to keep an eye on him even when we got in groups... which is one of the things rangers are good at with protecting casters. But when he had to log, the party didn't disband. But when the cleric had to go, and we could not find a replacement, game over. When I maxed my ranger, that fact got me building a cleric, which wound up getting me constant tells for invites most any zone I entered, even begging. Of course then my friend made a wood elf warrior... lol mana burn keeping him up.

Hmmm... maybe later on in the game the other classes became more sufficient in groups, but from the beginning and for some time, no cleric meant no group camp in many cases, not in tough spots anyhoot. Of course being a bad cleric didn't help.

[Lazortag]

As a Bard every time I CC reasoably well people will blow their wad over how amazing Bards are. Personally I think that's just odd, mezzing shit isn't hard if you're not needed for anything else, just tab through enemies until you get all of them (excluding the one the rest of the group is targeting). Not difficult at all. But I appreciate the respect either way.

I also find it ironic since on the forums people bitch about how shitty Bards are when I see them get complimented for the littlest things. It's just weird.

[Chodan]

I'm always impressed by rogues who do not use hide and tank for the majority of the fight.

I guess, my only real job as a tank is to hit "taunt" so the mob turns to me, and in the processs turns his back to the rogue, therefore allowing the rogue to backstab to regain aggro!

Wait...hehe.

[azeth]

I'm always impressed by rogues who do not use hide and tank for the majority of the fight.

I guess, my only real job as a tank is to hit "taunt" so the mob turns to me, and in the processs turns his back to the rogue, therefore allowing the rogue to backstab to regain aggro!

Wait...hehe.

i havent played a rogue since Live (stopped in 2004) but iirc my backstab hotkey was an evade macro. id actually be surprised to catch a rogue not evading during a fight.

[Humerox]

i havent played a rogue since Live (stopped in 2004) but iirc my backstab hotkey was an evade macro. id actually be surprised to catch a rogue not evading during a fight.

Be prepared to be surprised, lol.

I do notice a well-played bard or enchanter, though. Usually mention it in group when I see someone 4-twisting.

My cleric still needs to learn how to stop wanting to heal the tank while the pull is incoming, though. Meh.

[Yoite]

+1 for good pallys. I love playing my pally alt. tab targeting and rooting that add as its coming in the camp while still MTing my mob. Group is like damn.... and stuns + bash you can own a caster mob.

also, you can pacify pull just fine, just needs to be dark blue or less. dont try on yellow or reds you gonna get a crit resist and get the whole room.

[VincentVolaju]

I love how there is now 17 level 1-10 Bards online, yesterday at the same time there was 3 =P lmao

[rioisk]

Bard
Monk
Enchanter
Shaman

In about that order. Those classes are a lot easier to suck at than others. Playing a cleric is fucking easy breezy, I don't know why they need praise.

I disagree, I think monk is the easiest to suck at simply because FD pulling is an art. Especially when dealing with caster mobs.

I think enchanters do a lot more mezzing than bards and they're squishier so they require a little more care.

[PhelanKA]

I tend to get props sometimes as a Necromancer when I fill the role of CC with Screaming Terror. So many people don't realize that necros get mez. Hell, I played with a necro last week in CT that was 34 and had never even bothered purchasing the spell yet. Bad necro was bad. I aint namin any names ;)

[Swishahouse]

I see some comments about Shaman and I'm glad people do realize that. As i'm sure other shaman could say, especially in a raid situation 20 spell gems wouldnt be enough....


We are constantly bombed with tells for all sorts of shit, stat buffs, haste, regen, resists, etc and still are expected not to miss a beat on debuffs or heals to our group as well as maintaining our own cani cycle. You dont see us crying to the friendly neighborhood dead guy for a twitch EVER! On top of all that if you're really on your shit you can do those tasks plus proc your hammer and bash shit at the same time...even offtank some planar trash when needed.

[Taluvill]

Im a bit biased, but I'd love to see more recognition nfor a good druid that can DPS, CC(root/snare), MH/offheal, and buff while keeping an efficient mana level up. Its somewhat rare to find a druid that can do all of those things efficiently, whereas most druids get put in the position of healing and just do that effectively by itself.

A lot of that is prolly 30-40% gear based, because you need mana to be able to do that, but yeah. Point is understood i think.

Outside of my druid :D I really think that a good bard is hard to come by. I think we have some good bards on this server, a lot of bad ones, or ones that just wanna run fast, and we have probably not even a handful of exception bards. Maybe we dont have any great/over the top ones.

I'd like to see that bard that can do errything. I've yet to see it, although Jete is the closest example i can think of atm. Everyone else is just good or meh.

[Fryhole]

I think we have a couple bards on the server who can still kite a large number of mobs, despite the current mechanics. Jete (or was it Tones?) even said he's got a strat for when Kunark comes out to do some serious kite grinding.

What else are you referring to Tal, considering bards aren't working exactly as they did on live? (besides what's already been mentioned)

[renegadeofunk]

I love how there is now 17 level 1-10 Bards online, yesterday at the same time there was 3 =P lmao

Haha I noticed that, too. I installed last night and created a new toon just to get a hang of the UI. 80% of ooc chat in GFay was "level x bard lfg".

[Reiker]

I tend to get props sometimes as a Necromancer when I fill the role of CC with Screaming Terror. So many people don't realize that necros get mez. Hell, I played with a necro last week in CT that was 34 and had never even bothered purchasing the spell yet. Bad necro was bad. I aint namin any names ;)

Feel lucky cause the necro mez is a Kunark spell.

[Noleafclover]

I have yet to see a tank that knows/remembers/tries to flip the mob around for melee classes.

Pretty sad I must say.

Haven't had too many problems with this. Guess I usually just pull past the tank, wait for him to swing, and hit my combat-feign macro and I'm good to go; but is it really tough for rogues to move around the back if the tank doesn't turn it?

[Noleafclover]

Enchanter's number one to me. When the enchanter mezzes fast, and can CC without taking damage through efficient use of root/stun as a mez is about to be broken, without slowing down the group, that gets me sold. Bonus if they use a buff timer.

Shammies. I can't stand it when shammies don't canni-dance, take 3 seconds to make a hotkey FFS. Slowing mobs that die fast bothers me, and shammies that don't nuke/dot/add damage in any way.

Good pullers, be it monk or bard or anything else.

I don't get that impressed by a good cleric, but I certainly notice one w/ slow reaction time, early CHs, or who manages aggro badly (heals when not necessary and pulls aggro instead of waiting a few more seconds). I think that's the life of a cleric, it's more expected that you'll keep everyone alive.

[Dersk]

is it really tough for rogues to move around the back if the tank doesn't turn it?

Try going to a dungeon with a tank that doesn't care if mobs' backs are to the wall.

[XDrake]

On the flip side I think Necromancer is the most underrated group character. We can provide a strong pet, taps, dots, slow/mez undead, and even resurrect. :P In dire situations we can even tap tank and keep a group from being overrun if the tank goes down.

[Skope]

I see some comments about Shaman and I'm glad people do realize that. As i'm sure other shaman could say, especially in a raid situation 20 spell gems wouldnt be enough....


We are constantly bombed with tells for all sorts of shit, stat buffs, haste, regen, resists, etc and still are expected not to miss a beat on debuffs or heals to our group as well as maintaining our own cani cycle. You dont see us crying to the friendly neighborhood dead guy for a twitch EVER! On top of all that if you're really on your shit you can do those tasks plus proc your hammer and bash shit at the same time...even offtank some planar trash when needed.

Bingo!

As a shaman you handle an overwhelming majority of raid buffs and debuffs (malise/slow/weaken). No single caster can understand the mechanics of when to cast a spell on a mob quite like a shaman, whether it be a debuff or DoT, they always know the amount of aggro it will generate and will shave off a few milliseconds depending on who is tanking, what they're casting or what has proc'd on what particular mob. There really is quite a large disparity between a well-played shammy and a lazy one, and the difference is huge.

To go along with the main debuffer, you are also the secondary healer and often manage CC with root and blind (yes, shammies get it too!). If you take initiative to malise/slow mobs waiting to be engaged by the MT then you'll also take a few hits and can quite comfortably and will, on occasion, be called on as the off-tank. To boot, if your raid DPS is great you can get up there and melee while accomplishing all of these things (minus a slow when it's not needed) and only real downtime will be to rebuff the melees once the timer on buffs starts running low.

I know that everyone will claim their class to be the most difficult and most rewarding when played right, but i honestly think that a good monk and a good enchanter are the only two that I find to be more difficult.