Proposition For Raid Rules - Input Requested

[Lazie]

Every proposed tier system so far is about follow these rules for this mob but not on this one cause it has more value to this guild... agreement needs to present opportunities instead of continuing to promote who can park enough toons at all the "high" priority targets and log them in for 5 minutes at any given notice to kill a raid mob, get the loot on a toon that will... gasp be logged out at another raid target and never actually played. Gearing toons to camp out to get more gear for toons to camp out... see where this is going... camping out a mob isn't raiding... its called being an asshole.

Read the system I propose. You still have to track and know when your mob spawns. Getting to a mob and pulling it in 2 hours isn't hard. You still have to work if you want to kill these things.

[Bossman]

If TMO wants competition then why do they camp alt armies out at spawn points? How fast you can log in is not competing

[baramur]

Your just never gonna satisfy everyone. If people believe TMO/FE/IB are just gonna say screw our hardcore style lets rotate everything, your crazy. If you think Rogean wants them to do so, your crazy. Rogean has said before he doesn't want forced rotation he wants competition. The server as a whole is asking for the upper guilds...TMO/FE/IB to not monopolize the server, and they are agreeing, and yet you are still saying not enough, not enough. Even when approached with with them only allowed a combined 50 percent of raid mobs you still scream, not enough for casuals. This has become funny to me. If TMO/FE/IB agreed to only raid 1 week a month, you would still scream they are killing to much, or that your not getting enough for your limited playtime.

[quido]

Current raid practices such as pre-camping are the result of a sort of EQ Arms Race that has been going on for years.

Anyone remember when VS didn't get poopsocked or did only very rarely?

Anyone remember when Trak didn't get pre-camped?

Luckily it doesn't get to spawnsocking often, but if people want things like that to de-escalate, the #2/#3 forces need to match instead of justifying the continued behavior with a greater need for gear.

[Swish]

If TMO wants competition then why do they camp alt armies out at spawn points? How fast you can log in is not competing

Only way to remove that is to wipe the server and ban account sales from day 1 on the new one.

[Joroz]

Read the system I propose. You still have to track and know when your mob spawns. Getting to a mob and pulling it in 2 hours isn't hard. You still have to work if you want to kill these things.

yea you have some good points but still every mob should have same set of rules to keep things simple... there are a ton of guilds on this server all raid ready. whatever system gets adopted will have to be easy to maintain. soon as we start adding special stuff like if you kill this mob you can't go do this one, things get way to convoluted to keep track of. plus rotations will probably never happen. and the point isn't really to mandate rotations and get everyone a fair crack at every mob. its to curb the mob dieing 2mins after it spawns because people want to camp a raid force at every mob and keep shit on lock down.

[baramur]

I guess the issue is:
1) Why do people feel entitled to things they never tried to work for. I see some guilds posting that i have never seen sit a Sev camp with a force, hoping he might spawn (yes this was done on live).

2)Why people believe whatever is decided is what is set in stone. This agreement needs to be drafted like the constitution, adaptable with the ability to be ever changing.

3)Before we shoot for the moon, lets worry about lift-off.

4)You already have TMO/FE/IB agreeing to not monopolize mobs and open up the raid scene, are insults really the way to go. Why do you feel its a good idea to insult them at every turn.

5) IF currently TMO/FE/IB Combined are getting 9/10 of the raid content, with pretty much no other guild standing a chance at mobs like vs/trak, wouldnt any plan that frees up more raid mobs, and actually gives others a fighting chance at trak/vs an improvement?

[quido]

Only way to remove that is to wipe the server and ban account sales from day 1 on the new one.

Many of us leveled our own alt armies. Many of us have never bought or sold an account.

[jaybone]

Many of us leveled our own alt armies. Many of us have never bought or sold an account.

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Jennifer-Lawrence-ok-thumbs-up.gif

[Yinikren]

This once a week thing doesn't sound like a good idea. I am 100% sure anyone who wants to raid and isn't in TMO/IBFE doesn't want to go on vacation waiting for 3 weeks to pass so they can get mobs again.

Weighted point system. Make guilds choose what mobs they want each week. Keep FTE and remove variance. I am still finishing up my draft for it.

And I apologize Jeremy. Might have been someone else, but for some reason 5/6 mobs and making 6 guilds fight for the last one rings heavily in my mind.

[goshozal]

What this sytem really needs is some spreadsheets.

[baramur]

This once a week thing doesn't sound like a good idea. I am 100% sure anyone who wants to raid and isn't in TMO/IBFE doesn't want to go on vacation waiting for 3 weeks to pass so they can get mobs again.

Weighted point system. Make guilds choose what mobs they want each week. Keep FTE and remove variance. I am still finishing up my draft for it.

And I apologize Jeremy. Might have been someone else, but for some reason 5/6 mobs and making 6 guilds fight for the last one rings heavily in my mind.

All guilds would be open to raid all month, except tmo/ib/fe who would have to sit out 1 week. Why would the other guilds go on vacation? You know they could actually try going after mobs and killing them, and like i said i think you would see some leniency from tmo/fe/ib on alot of mobs during those other 3 weeks also.

[Joroz]

pretty sure anyone is able to compete at any time on that system... just those two guilds would sit out a week each month allowing other raiders to take a crack at mobs that they would normally refuse to do the camp-out/bat-phone style of p99 for.

[Yinikren]

If guilds have had success for the last two years "just going after mobs" we wouldn't be having this conversation.

We have to limit guild intake of the mob pie. Without making a rotation, the best course of action is a point system that precludes guilds from targets so they have to choose what to go after each week.

[Joroz]

actually any raid that wants to do the camp-out a raid force and bat-phone should sit out the week with the big guilds... this would prevent any other raid guilds from using the same tactics to get mobs when everyone else that uses the tactic is sitting out.

[baramur]

If guilds have had success for the last two years "just going after mobs" we wouldn't be having this conversation.

We have to limit guild intake of the mob pie. Without making a rotation, the best course of action is a point system that precludes guilds from targets so they have to choose what to go after each week.

FE/IB has had pretty good success. Taken has killed a few mobs, BDA has not done bad, but the main factor is the raid scene is a cluster fuck. Maybe a cap limit is what it takes i dunno tbh. But imho if you do a cap limit, you have to make vp a part of it, they are still raid mobs, make the upper guilds choose between a fay and a xygozz or a inny and a druushk. I don't have the answers, but best advise i can give is start simple and small and try it out and go from there, dont push for all at once or nothing thing.

[Yinikren]

VP always was going to be a part of the point limit. I am still working on my post for the main forum until we get a set of raid forums.

[Clark]

I see your point, but atm all other guilds besides tmo/ib/fe are currently getting 1/10 of the raid mobs? Hey if you asked me i would tell you this.

1st week month TMO/IB/FE sits out.
2nd week of month All Compete
3rd week of month TMO/IB/FE/next highest all sit out (but if a mob is up more then 4 hours its open to be engaged by anyone)
4th week All Compete.

way too complex

[Troubled]

If we want to talk about emulating as close to Live as possible, I've been told that it can be so where people don't camp at mobs or sock, but rather true races. Batphones would still happen as there's no way to regulate it. What are general thoughts on that?

[Retti_]

if only u could pvp each other and had static spawns

[baramur]

Not to pop your bubble but we sat on the trak spawn point on live, as there was no variance. Matter of fact we sat on many spawn points. You didn't need batphones we had spreadsheets with exact spawn times.

[Tasslehofp99]

You are proposing that we can't use alts or park more than one char? This is the first time I've said this since this whole thing started. People are starting to take this whole raid equality thing too far.

Essentially everyone fails to see the fine line between what is a satisfactory expected level of effort to compete and what amounts to guilds leaving mobs up for other guilds who are less motivated to kill at their convenience, which could be any amount of time...within reason.

I think any system in which certain guilds are being ruled out at certain times needs a time limit. For instance if a mob spawns and its up for over 2 hours...should be FFA. If you expect guilds to leave mobs up for days just to give another guild a shot, that's not happening most likely.

TMO and IB/FE have shown willingness to tone their intensity down, but at some point we still expect casual guilds to compete for mobs.


Ill probably get trolled for this but I'm relaying to you guys the reality of this situation. Half the raiders would support a rotation while the other half would never be open to such a thing. You guys really need to think middle ground here.


Before FE formed, it was way worse than it has been since. We were a collective of like minded individuals that were tired of seeing TMO take EVERYTHING, and we did our damn best to change what we could. Did we beat TMO? Nope! Id say they beat themselves, but we did sure give them a proper run for their money most months, despite what the forum trolls will admit. One could tell a similar narrative about TMO's rise to the top and early clashes with IB. You don't get to kill raid mobs without ANY effort, that is an unfair expectation for anyone to have.

Stop bullshitting about point systems and such complicated rule sets; realize we have a huge opportunity to make p99 a better place to play and get 'er done.

In otherwords find that middle ground, you won't get raid pixels without putting in effort. By effort I don't mean the insane lengths that we have seen TMO&FE/IB go to; but show something. You can't expect the upper guilds to let off the gas in their car if you aren't willing to upgrade from a bicycle, figuratively speaking.

I realize that the server has been ultimately oppressed for 2+ years, but a serious mistake would be to try and punish everyone who wishes to play more hours per day than you.


Make it fucking work people!


Copied from the other thread, can we stop posting the same shit across 5 threads? Pls

[Retti_]

if only u could pvp each other and had static spawns

Sig test

[JerSar]

I think that guilds who show up at a mob first should just choose a member and have them fight to the death, winning guild tag gets the FTE rights.

(But after watching some of the BotB fights that could be a mistake)

[Stinxer]

Here's a solution, go outside, see the world. Holy shit. Stop raiding so hardcore, and play it like it's a game, not your life.

[Lammy]

I think the main reason that everyone is haing a struggle here is that this went from the staff wanting people to clean up their behavior in the raid scene... To now, guilds that I've never even seen try to race for a mob, trying to make point based raIiding systems, rotations, etc. How is this not more work for GMs to keep track of?

its just like Democrats in our society, they want handouts at the expense of others and cause more work for our government.

why can't people just be happy to agree and respect others and the battlefield, without all the technical b******* .the larger guild can agree to make some concessions as far as leaving some targets up for the smaller guilds and everyone except TMO can take away something from these negotiations.

[radditsu]

My wife gave me a handjob and I fell asleep. Did anyone want me to put a proposal to my non weighted monthly point system?

I see alot of circle jerking since I fell asleep

[Fael]

I'm not sure running down democrats, representing roughly half the population of the server (and 100% of casual scum if your theory is correct) is the best way of winning some hearts and minds.

Just sayin!

Dolic

[Kope]

its just like Democrats in our society, they want handouts at the expense of others and cause more work for our government.

it's really not, and the more you try to propagandize the farther from the actual point you get.

[bigsykedaddy]

I can't speak for my guild, but I wouldn't mind equal splits between all guilds. Certainly better than the distribution for the last 3 years. Except I wouldn't mind everyone getting a little more than TMO, because they already ate their cake.

Ok, then what about me? I am a new recruit to TMO and I only have one ;evel 59 toon with no Trak, VS, VP gear... What then?

[Ungriim]

I find it mind-blowing at this point that after 2+years of Kunark there are still so many pixel-hungry idiots that actually WANT to grow neckbeards and buttonmash targets for 72 hours. Go play a fucking FPS and chill out

I'm also upset that so far most of FE leadership seems to be posting that they will not be giving up targets to "casuals" in a raid scene that has spiraled out of comprehension.

[Ungriim]

I think the main reason that everyone is haing a struggle here is that this went from the staff wanting people to clean up their behavior in the raid scene... To now, guilds that I've never even seen try to race for a mob, trying to make point based raIiding systems, rotations, etc. How is this not more work for GMs to keep track of?

its just like Democrats in our society, they want handouts at the expense of others and cause more work for our government.

why can't people just be happy to agree and respect others and the battlefield, without all the technical b******* .the larger guild can agree to make some concessions as far as leaving some targets up for the smaller guilds and everyone except TMO can take away something from these negotiations.

Once again - battered women's syndrome. The raid scene is so fucking dumb at this point that people with actual lives would rather do RL than spend 72 hours setting up for a mob that dies in 30 seconds. Where's the fun? I think people would have a lot more fun trying dragons with low numbers low gear and actual prep time when it spawns...

[Alarti0001]

I find it mind-blowing at this point that after 2+years of Kunark there are still so many pixel-hungry idiots that actually WANT to grow neckbeards and buttonmash targets for 72 hours. Go play a fucking FPS and chill out

I'm also upset that so far most of FE leadership seems to be posting that they will not be giving up targets to "casuals" in a raid scene that has spiraled out of comprehension.

Lol you actually believed their past rhetoric?

[Fael]

[QUOTE= I think people would have a lot more fun trying dragons with low numbers low gear and actual prep time when it spawns...[/QUOTE]

Ugrim. I know you cannot understand this, but a large percentage of people have sought out eq, and continue to play eq, because content is not instanced. This is a MMO, not a co-op.

There are 17 raid worthy mobs in Kunark, and an abundance of guilds capable of killing them. In your ideal raid world, the guilds on this server would be incentived into breaking into several different pieces to (1) kill things with the smallest force possible (maximum fun in your mind), and (2) maintain some semblance of efficiency.

The resulting rotation would be a raid calendar filled with 10-15 guilds, averaging basically one kill per week, 5 or so kills per month. This is hardly compelling. I understand that its compelling to you, because apparently all you want is a thrill every now and then and you're happy. I wonder if after a month of that you would still find it compelling.

TMO/IB/FE and some other guilds who actually want to raid and compete (albiet in a respectful way) represent a large portion of this servers population. Lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater, to borrow a phrase from BMQ.


Dolic

[mgellan]

Ok, then what about me? I am a new recruit to TMO and I only have one ;evel 59 toon with no Trak, VS, VP gear... What then?

Seriously? Get an MQ from one of your guildies who've been sucking on the loot teat for years. Or wait your turn like everyone else. Man, you sound entitled.

Regards,
Mg

[Ungriim]

Ugrim. I know you cannot understand this, but a large percentage of people have sought out eq, and continue to play eq, because content is not instanced. This is a MMO, not a co-op.

.....

The resulting rotation would be a raid calendar filled with 10-15 guilds, averaging basically one kill per week, 5 or so kills per month.....

Dolic

Dolic - I understand that you either do not know how to read or have no ability to comprehend meta or abstract thought.

I'm not saying to take down the raid scene. In fact my plan would have it be the same 90% of the time. I never said shit about any type of forced rotation. I said that the 2 hour rule implies a rotation until a 3rd guild gets established to challenge. I also said that my idea would imply that for top tier guilds - 4/4 weeks would be FTE on VP and 3/4 weeks would be FTE on old content, while for lower guilds it would be 4/4 weeks FTE in VP, 3/4 weeks it would be FTE on old content, and 1/4 weeks it would be FTE circa 2010/2011 p99 raid scene.

[Splorf22]

Dolic, you keep using this word 'competition', and I'm not sure you know what it means. How do you plan to be better than the other guy?

For example: a basketball player can be taller, or faster, or have better reflexes, or have a better three point shot. A quake player can have better reflexes or practice more than his opponents. A chess player can calculate better or learn more openings. An EQ player in 2001 could outlevel or out AA his competitors, and come up with new strategies.

None of this applies on P1999. Everyone uses the same simple strategies - especially for raiding, which is basically 'put on MR gear and faceroll your keyboard for 30 seconds'. The game is slow as molasses, so reflexes don't apply. We have Vent to coordinate easily, and the game mechanics don't prevent people from showing up with three times the number of people the designers intended.

So 'competition' on this server is defined purely in terms of time spent. Time spent tracking, time spent leveling and gearing your alt army so you can camp out (and don't care if one of them is banned for training), time spent batphoning in the middle of the night. And all of these are artifacts of variance. None of them would matter with true classic mechanics. People keep saying 'Oh, in classic the uberguilds got everything'. Yes, but that was because a) Verant moved the content treadmill very fast and b) they actually had to figure stuff out. None of that applies here.

Therefore, when you say 'TMO and other guilds actually want to raid and compete' what you are really saying is 'My dopamine levels are dependent on non-classic mechanics which allow me to kill pixel dragons because I spend more time facerolling my keyboard than the other players'.

[Ungriim]

^ exactly what this guy said

[jaybone]

so what happens when 5 more raiding guilds come along? Were going on a 3 year delay for an expansion that was out 8 months after Kunark. This server needs wiped and started over.

[Chrimes]

None of this is classic. Guild rivalry was one of the funnest mechanics about classic. Let all guilds compete freely, and force competition to step up on they're own to compete. Simple concept - the only thing that is broken is people wanting hand-outs.

[Kope]

None of this is classic. Guild rivalry was one of the funnest mechanics about classic. Let all guilds compete freely, and force competition to step up on they're own to compete. Simple concept - the only thing that is broken is people wanting hand-outs.

Again, this is the attitude that got the rest of the server (including GMs) frustrated in the first place.

You need to get past this way of thinking or nothing will come out of the debates.

[Alarti0001]

Again, this is the attitude that got the rest of the server (including GMs) frustrated in the first place.

You need to get past this way of thinking or nothing will come out of the debates.

let the gm"s speak for themselves....i doubt that is what gm"s plural think

[Fael]

Dolic, you keep using this word 'competition', and I'm not sure you know what it means. How do you plan to be better than the other guy?


Loraen, your initial response questions my understanding of the word competition, but then you digress into talking about the concept of "being better than the other guy,"fast reflexes, etc. Ironically, that really has nothing to do with the word competition, which is simply "the act or process of trying to get or win something (such as a prize or a higher level of success) that someone else is also trying to get or win."

That said, i trust that you actually do know what the word competition means. And I imagine that supremacy can in fact read and write (i for one can do it better than 95% of people who took the LSAT three years ago, which admittedly doesn't mean much).

There are aspects of raiding now that I absolutely find compelling. I for one enjoy kiting fear while other guilds are also trying to go for the engage. I enjoy finding and pulling dragons before the other guild gets fte, etc, etc. I enjoy rushing to form up groups, get final buffs, and engage trakanon or others mob as quickly as possible before the other guild does, or if the other guild engages too early and fails, etc. All of that requires decisions to be made, coordination, luck, the possibility of failure, etc, which makes raiding compelling to me.

I admit, my dopamine levels are dependent on the fact that not every encounter is like Noble, where several guilds spam auto attack and murder the mob in masse. You of course may want it to be that bad, in hopes that the sheer retardedness would force a rotation.

I question whether or not that would actually force a rotation, particularly when velious is supposedly 3 months out, and considering that most velious mobs are on a variance anyways.


Dolic

[Ungriim]

This is something that would last in velious and in no way would affect velious mobs. 100% guarantee that velious will be FFA for AT LEAST the first year. So in reality, if velious beta is near, we all miss out on MAYBE 4 of each "major" classic/kunark target and then go into velious live. Grow the fuck up.

[Ungriim]

let the gm"s speak for themselves....i doubt that is what gm"s plural think

Again, read Rogeans front page post, you fucking moron

[Kope]

Again, read Rogeans front page post, you fucking moron

Even though I agree that Rogean was very specific, Alarti's point was about multiple GMs, not just Rogean.

We need to not yell AT each other, we need to be talking WITH each other and come to an agreement everyone can live with (not just the "hardcore", not just the "casuals").

[Ungriim]

I apologize. It's just hard for me to understand how roughly ~16% of raid mobs being given up to 80% of the server is even an issue, when velious is so near.

[Yinikren]

The problem is no one wants agree because the ones that think they hold power have far too much to lose.

Rogean isn't going to let TMO raid until TMO agrees to some plan to help the raid scene. TMO will never agree to anything that loses them a good potion of mobs to help, oh, every other guild that wants to raid.

Someone has to concede, and we know the ones who need to are the ones who got us in this whole mess.

[Splorf22]

Loraen, your initial response questions my understanding of the word competition, but then you digress into talking about the concept of "being better than the other guy,"fast reflexes, etc. Ironically, that really has nothing to do with the word competition, which is simply "the act or process of trying to get or win something (such as a prize or a higher level of success) that someone else is also trying to get or win."

Well, I had something else planned and I guess in the end it didn't quite flow. Anyway, I still think that most people would not consider pole-sitting to be competition even if does meet the Webster's definition.

There are aspects of raiding now that I absolutely find compelling. I for one enjoy kiting fear while other guilds are also trying to go for the engage. I enjoy finding and pulling dragons before the other guild gets fte, etc, etc. I enjoy rushing to form up groups, get final buffs, and engage trakanon or others mob as quickly as possible before the other guild does, or if the other guild engages too early and fails, etc. All of that requires decisions to be made, coordination, luck, the possibility of failure, etc, which makes raiding compelling to me.

If this is the best you can do I'm going to have to call that a Fael (snicker). Seriously: getting FTE on dragons = running around with selos while hitting track and making sure your partner eats the charm. Who needs groups for Trakanon anyway when you have 50? And you have one guy who has to count classes and make a guess for the engage. It's like a version of the SAT with all the hard questions removes that caps at 700 combined. Again: 95% of success on the current raid scene is predicated on time invested.

I admit, my dopamine levels are dependent on the fact that not every encounter is like Noble, where several guilds spam auto attack and murder the mob in masse. You of course may want it to be that bad, in hopes that the sheer retardedness would force a rotation.

No, I want repops. The reason I keep harping on variance is that I keep hearing this 'we put more effort in we deserver more mobs' nonsense. That is only true because of variance, ergo you guys have been getting handouts for years now.

And if I have to choose between no variance (= retarded FTE spam) and variance (= retarded tracking and batphoning) I'm going to choose no variance because at least its a) fair and b) wastes less time.

[Turp_SmokinPurp]

A very hardcore guild wouldn't be satisfied without ct/vs/trak/VP.
The reason for this entire concept is the lack of hardcore.

Get off that purp before you post Turp
Lol. Get off your high horse.
A very hardcore guild that is serious about what items they want
(not rot / item blocking) could settle with no VP or just PD etc. Changing monthly/weekly or w.e
Those "hardcore" that want VP dragon rot #1,000 s at 3 am. Would need not apply. The other targets I could see on the list.
I never even have done more than briefly think on this subject so no reason to go to in depth. Unless it has to happen.

The reason for this entire concept is the lack of hardcore.
I believe "the reason for this entire concept" of these posts, is actually total opposite of what you claim. Instead of being a lack of hardcore community, It is that the hardcore people have to many within it wanting rot # 5000 and not enough hardcore players leaders cared to give up 1-2 mobs to the less hardcore casuals. Ending up in a bunch of posts this week. To many ruthless hardcore's wanting rot #5001, they crave it.

Ending up in this concept of forum questing for mobs.

[Fael]

Im all for repops. Tuesdays used to be my favorite day of the week!

I wonder why the gm's are particularly adverse to putting them in?

I mean, I heard Derubs (i think) blood / death / IV fluid analogy. But weekly repops were a vital part of the game play. When Verant decided to make trak a 3-day repop, I don't believe they made that decision absent their understanding that tuesday repops would increase the amount of trakanon's per month, etc.


Dolic

[Ungriim]

Thank you Turp.

[quido]

Even monthly repops would be huge for the server and would ease a lot of tension and provide some fun.

[Versus]

Repops even within the current rule set would accomplish most of what everyone wants. Repops>Mobs everywhere>Guilds that are not TMO, FE, IB get raid mobs>profit. Now just agree to never /petition a FTE message (because really, what IS there to /petition?????), no kiting (use Jeremy's little program he made to see) and agree on a camp out/anti-shit sock spot in each zone.

[Geofizzle]

Only petition if ur not in TMO Phisting. Anyone inside TMO who petitions shold be banhammered for at least like 4.5 weeks . You got it all already if u got a TMO tag... I mean there should be different standards there amirite guys?

[Fazlazen]

so we giving 20% to the casual scum? I don't wanna read through 60 pages.

[Versus]

Just read Loraen's other thread. It sums up everything in a nice TL;DR couple paragraphs. This is just getting dumb though.

[Ungriim]

so we giving 20% to the casual scum? I don't wanna read through 60 pages.

~16%, and vp remains fte

[Fazlazen]

~16%, and vp remains fte

16% of the mobs to the scum, 84% to IB/FE/TMO... Is VP counted in that? What do you mean by remains FTE... Everything else isnt?

16% to the scum sounds fair tho, its how it is given to them that needs to be talked over.

[quido]

I'm in favor of 7 days per month.

[Yinikren]

I am in favor of TMO not setting demands the rest of the server will not agree to.

You guys figure out how to work 6 guilds into a mix.

[Ungriim]

16% of the mobs to the scum, 84% to IB/FE/TMO... Is VP counted in that? What do you mean by remains FTE... Everything else isnt?

16% to the scum sounds fair tho, its how it is given to them that needs to be talked over.

Vp is FTE (assume TMO/IBFE competition)

3 weeks a month is TMO/IBFE in rotation on rotation assuming no outside guilds compete

1 week a month TMO/IBFE take break from classic/kunark and let other guilds duke it out

[Ungriim]

Sorry typos drunk in Vegas

[Fazlazen]

Vp is FTE (assume TMO/IBFE competition)

3 weeks a month is TMO/IBFE in rotation on rotation assuming no outside guilds compete

1 week a month TMO/IBFE take break from classic/kunark and let other guilds duke it out

sounds good, but why does TMO/IBFE rotate?

And during your 1 week break for the casual scum to partake in raiding, is VP also a no go?

If VP remains a go, I think we have a potential winner here.

[Yinikren]

Casuals raiding once a week isn't an option. People shouldn't have to go on vacation for 3 weeks when their raiding is done to fit you guys in.

A weekly schedule that moderates mob intake would be cleaner, less confusing, wouldn't fuck people out of town on business, and be easier to police. You guys just don't like it cause you don't get 75% of the mobs. :)

[Ungriim]

sounds good, but why does TMO/IBFE rotate?

And during your 1 week break for the casual scum to partake in raiding, is VP also a no go?

If VP remains a go, I think we have a potential winner here.

It assumes rotation with the 2 hour wait period - but other guilds are welcome to try.

VP is not included. Anyone can try to kill a dragon in vp at any time.

To the guy that posted above...it needs to be compromise - Real raiders aren't going to give up as much as you want. Also they don't have to go on vacation - they have always and will always be allowed to compete

[Joroz]

re-pops wont fix anything.... look back at the history of them, one guild logs in alts kills a target then logs in another set of alts over and over till most of the re-pop is dead, then they go play in their playground that they have cock blocked away from the rest of the server for 3 years, rarely does any guild mobilize fast enough to beat the army's of alts camped at each mobs engage spot, sure they may get mobs left up that drop shitty bracers or wt reducing bags but nothing good. all your doing with re-pops is increasing the fun level for those that keep getting most of everything, rules of engagement need to be adjusted to curb this behavior. this type of encounter lock down is not and has never been part of classic eq experience.

[Fael]

Even with alts, the last few repops have seen a fair distribution. If repops are during prime time with adequate notice, it's your own fault if you come away empty handed.

[williestargell]

one thing that comes from the GM end would be more repops. Repops by definition give everyone a chance at kills, you can only be in one place at a time. Guilds have backed off on repop days due to not being willing to put up with being trained and otherwise abused. If there's assurance that misdeeds wont happen or will be punished then several more guilds will be involved on those days.

More repops is better and has been semi-promised for a long time

[kotton05]

guilds can kill vs, trak and prolly fay at same time

[Joroz]

here is what really happens during a re-pop:

guild a and b both log in alts/mains at vs and trak, so 2 raids at same time with parked alts/mains at both, either way mob dies in a couple mins sometimes guild a gets both sometimes its split. next these guys evac for sev, which usually have already started the pull while they were doing vs and trak with an alt, sev dies shortly after, at the same time they have a small alt army killing fay, soon as these mobs are dead... aprox 10-15mins after re-pop ct and inny are targeted both those guys die within another 10mins... so if your keeping track trak/vs/sev/inny/ct are all systematically downed in 20-25mins mins of a repop by a guild or two and their alt armies. Now we get to where normal guilds come into play... some of them have actually mobilized to things like tal/gore/noble cycle or managed to put together crews for vox/naggy, these guys will still mobilize and try to get fte of which they will managed to get 2 or 3 of them with other raids getting ready to attempt. so repops are great for the server with the current raiding culture if you want to maybe get talendor or vox which will have the least resistance due to alt armies not there yet. this is how it is when all alt army raiders are not currently serving a suspension. not classic raiding at all... sure loosing to a guild over and over on races to mobs yes but not everything down when you get to it by a guild with alt raid at every encounter.

[Fael]

Cool story. Been here a year and half and it's not happened like that.

[williestargell]

Yea, nobody is doing trak+whatever at the same time.

Only two guilds are remotely capable of that and on a repop at least one of them is going to be in VP.

Regardless it gives the other guilds a fighting chance. Whereas when there are no repops the current climate totally shuts others out. Even in a new climate more repops will give the smaller guilds a better chance. Especially if rules are enforced which wont allow trains to delay the small guilds until the big guild reinforces - the small guilds will complete pulls and get kills.

Finally repops are so totally classic, they happened pretty regularly weekly.