Low-hp kiting gone

[zanderklocke]

Awwwwwwww Yeeeeaaaahhhh!

Thank you, Nilbog.

[Darkyle]

Was actually Kanras ;) but anywho - how is it different now?

[Swindle]

When I first read the title I thought it said Low-HP Kiting Gnome

[Byrjun]

Why is this a good thing?

To clarify, I have no side here. I know pretty much nothing about bards.

Is this classic? How does this not effect low HP aggro (I assume that's how it worked)?

[Reguiy]

Bard will still be able to solo massive swarms of non-casters though, right? So this will only affect bard plvling and low hp kiting in zones with casters. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[rollin5k]

Good cause lots of spawns get hogged up when bards do this exploit.

[teija]

low-hp agro IS CLASSIC i did it on live in 2000, why are we making a classic server "not classic". shits cray.

[Pheer]

so you mean never again will i get to watch a bard rage in ooc cause someone healed his partner?

this is a terrible day

[nilbog]

low-hp agro IS CLASSIC i did it on live in 2000, why are we making a classic server "not classic". shits cray.

How it was being done was not classic. There should have been risk associated with it, and the neverending top hate of low hp while kiting was not legit if others were doing damage.

[Swish]

teija just said he wants item links removed, the old classic UI installed asap, a classic timeline, no EC forum on the forums, people playing on 56k modems at the most, CRT monitors, Windows 98 platform...etc etc.

Right teija? :p

[reborn649]

Anyone test this and see exactly how it's changed? Did it on live, so I'm trying to figure out what was changed or why it was changed.

Get ready for chardok next if it was changed to just please a portion of the community.

Edit: saw nilbogs post. Ya you shouldn't be able to do this with no consequence. Typically you gotta zone or campout every few minutes so mobs don't turn on you instead of the guy with low health.

[Daldaen]

AE Kiting on a bard is still doable without Low HP Aggro.

The level 49 song 'Shield of Songs' generates an ENORMOUS amount of hate (atleast it should), as the game considers it a rune casted over and over on the same person. Pulsing it for about 3-4 minutes gives you a solid aggro lock up to around 5000~ DMG. Longer you do it the more DMG that is allowed.

[zanderklocke]

Bards can still powerlevel and kite but cannot do the no-risk low-hp kiting anymore. This will likely affect those who are leveling bards the most.

[reborn649]

Where was the no risk low hp kiting exactly? In overthere is about the only place where u didn't have to zone 2-3 times during the kite.

[teija]

teija just said he wants item links removed, the old classic UI installed asap, a classic timeline, no EC forum on the forums, people playing on 56k modems at the most, CRT monitors, Windows 98 platform...etc etc.

Right teija? :p

works for me.

[Sirken]

Pras Kanras

Pras Nilbog

[Itap]

Pras Kanras

Pras Nilbog

[nilbog]

Please report any further issues or tweaks aoe kiting may need. Objectively to get it as similar to Velious-era as possible.

[Xadion]

low HP still should cause agro, canni shamans had to be careful on raids so they didn't move the mob...ppl taking AoEs and getting too low ping poneged the mob etc etc..all that should work. A use not intended of a mechanic is soooo classic eq... Devs admited fear kiting and fd splitting was not intended but just clever use of mechanics.

[Fllash]

Low HP isn't end all and be all aggro... hence why bards usually have to zone a few times during a kite... or am I completely mistaken?

[nilbog]

low HP still should cause agro, canni shamans had to be careful on raids so they didn't move the mob...ppl taking AoEs and getting too low ping poneged the mob etc etc..all that should work. A use not intended of a mechanic is soooo classic eq... Devs admited fear kiting and fd splitting was not intended but just clever use of mechanics.

It does cause aggro.

[zanderklocke]

Where was the no risk low hp kiting exactly? In overthere is about the only place where u didn't have to zone 2-3 times during the kite.

Did not have to zone in Dreadlands except for Ravishing Drolvargs. Did not have to zone in Frontier Mountains, and I'm pretty sure one did not need to zone to clear aggro in Emerald Jungle either. Only commonly kited zones people had to zone out of to clear aggro were Burning Wood and Skyfire.

Still, I'm not sure having the damage dealer camp out or zone out to clear aggro really entails "much" risk.

I think this change to the server is a step forward. I very well remember bards AE kiting in classic, but I don't remember people low-hp trivializing content. Maybe it did exist in classic, but it certainly wasn't wide spread like it was here.

[Pheer]

So will I ever again hear the words "what retard just healed my kite partner" ?

[nilbog]

So will I ever again hear the words "what retard just healed my kite partner" ?

chaotic good

[Pheer]

chaotic good

So youre telling me the bard in OT the other day who OOC'd "Youre done kid, I hope you enjoyed playing on this server" never actually got justice for the wrongs committed against him?

[nilbog]

So youre telling me the bard in OT the other day who OOC'd "Youre done kid, I hope you enjoyed playing on this server" never actually got justice for the wrongs committed against him?

Don't know/care about this. If you're saying a player healed another player, sounds like they got .. healed. Dunno, I don't get involved in gm/guide stuff.

[Kevynne]

this nerf is not classic and upsets me.

[nilbog]

this nerf is not classic and upsets me.

More classic than it was. As stated before, low hp aggro didn't provide permanent highest hate if there were other group members damaging the mob.

I put a substantial amount of research leading up to this change including videos you can find on youtube.

[Swish]

If it were up to me I'd add some code that gives outdoor mobs scale of wolf speed if they're not dead within 2 minutes of being engaged, and standard flee speed if they do drop below 20%.

Go on now bards, get with the program and level like everyone else :p

[formallydickman]

More classic than it was. As stated before, low hp aggro didn't provide permanent highest hate if there were other group members damaging the mob.

I put a substantial amount of research leading up to this change including videos you can find on youtube.

And it should be more appreciated than it is! thanks

[Xelris]

Damn. There goes a hilarious way to use LoH.

[Visual]

Four years late

[Xelris]

If it were up to me I'd add some code that gives outdoor mobs scale of wolf speed if they're not dead within 2 minutes of being engaged, and standard flee speed if they do drop below 20%.

Go on now bards, get with the program and level like everyone else :p

Someone once suggested a mob in a kite pack spontaneously getting the summon ability if more than 20 were pulled and unable to melee for more than X time. I can imagine the reactions here.

[Calibix]

Did not have to zone in Dreadlands except for Ravishing Drolvargs. Did not have to zone in Frontier Mountains, and I'm pretty sure one did not need to zone to clear aggro in Emerald Jungle either. Only commonly kited zones people had to zone out of to clear aggro were Burning Wood and Skyfire.

Still, I'm not sure having the damage dealer camp out or zone out to clear aggro really entails "much" risk.

I think this change to the server is a step forward. I very well remember bards AE kiting in classic, but I don't remember people low-hp trivializing content. Maybe it did exist in classic, but it certainly wasn't wide spread like it was here.

You have to zone agro in EJ or get owned. Can't comment on DL or FM though.

Personally, not that I low HP much, but I don't get why this was changed. As people said, it really won't change much, so I don't understand the point. Spamming rune is actually going to make it go faster now as people won't zone/camp out. Too many bard haters I guess.

[derpcake]

More classic than it was. As stated before, low hp aggro didn't provide permanent highest hate if there were other group members damaging the mob.

I put a substantial amount of research leading up to this change including videos you can find on youtube.

Did you find info on bard song agro, after song agro was nerfed due to raid issues, compared to low hp agro values? I would like to see that.

Also, why don't mobs of the same faction assist on a pet here? It makes charm kiting annoying and slow.

I find the server a bit laggy for solo AE kiting, with low hp kiting gone (which I understand), and slow charm kiting, this makes bards kind of terrible soloers for xp. That sure isn't classic. :(

[Ravager]

teija just said he wants item links removed, the old classic UI installed asap, a classic timeline, no EC forum on the forums, people playing on 56k modems at the most, CRT monitors, Windows 98 platform...etc etc.

Right teija? :p

I want this.

[HeallunRumblebelly]

As long as we're doing healing and aggro, how about we look at group healing--especially word of restoration? I can pull off a full mallet with one WoR.

[myxomatosii]

Good, the real "skill" was tight-circle-swarming. And its not even that hard..

Its how I leveled, I SAY BACK IN MY DAY!! :mad:

[Giovanni]

You have to zone agro in EJ or get owned. Can't comment on DL or FM though.

Personally, not that I low HP much, but I don't get why this was changed. As people said, it really won't change much, so I don't understand the point. Spamming rune is actually going to make it go faster now as people won't zone/camp out. Too many bard haters I guess.

I recall using the rune song in exp groups on live without pulling aggro. It may not have increased aggro if it was just reapplying to an already ruined target.

Regardless, aggro kiting the the whole zone for exp is a game mechanic better suited for King Mortenson's Raid Addicts server that for people trying to recreate a classic experience on p1999.

[Fael]

This changes nothing. Low hp Kiting was lame anyways.
Although it will be much harder to power lvl melee now which kind of sucks.
When there's a will there's a way however.

Dolic

[DrKvothe]

I did low hp kiting from ~36 to 46. By the end of it, I was playing other games and starting low level alts whenever my bard friends weren't on.

Looking back on it, I lost out on experiencing a bunch of leveling dungeons, chances to meet other players, and all the loot I could have earned had I not been busy running circles on top of rotting corpses. It was fast, it was easy, but it wasn't at all fulfilling. At 46, I headed to CoM for exp and epic faction and realized exactly how little fun I'd been having.

I can't say I'm upset to see it go.

[Daldaen]

I did low hp kiting from ~36 to 46. By the end of it, I was playing other games and starting low level alts whenever my bard friends weren't on.

Looking back on it, I lost out on experiencing a bunch of leveling dungeons, chances to meet other players, and all the loot I could have earned had I not been busy running circles on top of rotting corpses. It was fast, it was easy, but it wasn't at all fulfilling. At 46, I headed to CoM for exp and epic faction and realized exactly how little fun I'd been having.

I can't say I'm upset to see it go.

To each their own. Some people don't like the game until 50-60. Low HP kiting allowed them to get through low levels quickly.

[stormlord]

I've always liked the aggro and kiting mechanics in EQ and think modern games mistakenly have abandoned a lot of it. However, if there're loopholes in it things can get exploited. Thing is, I think exploiting a games mechanics is not wrong unless it's a bug. And moreso, an exploit can cause negative outcomes for the server if a player becomes too powerful as result of being able to skirt around every rule. One of those negative outcomes is consuming too many spawns and thus not allowing other players access. Another thing it does is it floods the server with more powerful players who will in turn flood the bazaar(or ec) with items as result of leveling up so much faster. This is mudflation and it can have both positive and negative consequences.

If exploiting is widespread, being able to skirt around the rules would remove a lot of fun from the game as it'd lose its challenge. There're a lot of players who don't just play to get to the top, but for the challenge. On the other hand, if exploiting hasn't matured yet then the process of learning those exploits IS fun.

All in all, simple mechanics in a complex environment can produce engaging gameplay of this sort. Just think about a 2d platformer like Mario Brothers and how simple its mechanics were. Yet the real fun happened when Mariio entered the more complex environment around him and had to exploit it to do well. Same thing happens in EQ when you enter a dungeon and all of your abilities become nebulous as they merge with the environment. The more varied and tricky your environment, the more nebulous (and I'd say exciting) it becomes.

That's the heart of gaming: learning to exploit. The rest is just skinnerbox.

[Darksinga]

Please report any further issues or tweaks aoe kiting may need. Objectively to get it as similar to Velious-era as possible.

Make charm kiting work please.

Also this change doesnt affect the bards who know what their doing. Can still kill 60 to 80 mobs in OT in 15 mins :)

[Waedawen]

low-hp agro IS CLASSIC i did it on live in 2000, why are we making a classic server "not classic". shits cray.


welcome to p99.

[indiscriminate_hater]

Charm kiting still works, you just have to use mobs that will assist one another (e.g. all aviaks) and be past a certain distance away from the mobs when you have the pet attack. Takes a bit more effort but is still faster than one on one

[fastboy21]

charm kiting works fine on p99.

you have to have a little bit of zone knowledge to find a place that makes it worth while...and then the actual coordination to pull it off. but both of those were true on live also.

[Nirgon]

Thank you, Nilbog.

[Buriedpast]

As long as we're doing healing and aggro, how about we look at group healing--especially word of restoration? I can pull off a full mallet with one WoR.

Lol aye.

I often tag aggro from a cockhead bard thats taking pulls from groups and word of redemption myself on other size of zone.

[Mandalore93]

Step in the right direction for correcting aggro. And really the only leveling patch this will effect will arguably be mid and late forties.

[webrunner5]

Charm kiting still works, you just have to use mobs that will assist one another (e.g. all aviaks) and be past a certain distance away from the mobs when you have the pet attack. Takes a bit more effort but is still faster than one on one

Yeah you have to find social mobs. You are not going to the Oasis and have Crocs all running after you like Spec's do. You have to Cherry Pick your mobs to do it well.

[Clark]

Good cause lots of spawns get hogged up when bards do this exploit.